GK2- The Training Day Experiment

[Gengis Khan]

World Size: Standard
Map: Random
AI Civs: Random
Barbs: Roaming

Victory Conditions: All ON(except Wonder)
Allow Cultural Conversions: ON
Respawn: OFF
Cultural Starts: ON
Difficulty: Monarchy

Game will be played in Civ 1.29
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This training day game will be a chance to introduce new players to the SG form, other fanatics, and help them improve their play among others their share their addiction.

Me & my co-trainers(they can’t be assistants when they’re both as good if not better then me), will be providing tons of assistance, tips, turn reviews, and help to move you guys along to your goal. We’ve decided on Monarch because it’s hard to teach diplomacy & trading when the AI isn’t forcing you to trade. Also it will be nice to work on a training day game where time is against you & everyone will have to apply tips & strategies that they’ve just recently learned in order to advance.

We’ll be using the format:
*pre-turn strategizing/suggestions
*a trainee will take his turn
*a trainer will shadow the turn(play the same turn)
*trainee will post a turn log plus ideas he has & plans for the future
*trainer will chime in with a critique of his turn(changes he could have made, suggestions for next time, ideas for the next player, ect)
*then we go on to discuss the next turn. Rinse and repeat.

The only variant is that we won’t be allowed to build/rush the Great Library. This is so trading in the early game will be vital to our success. Capturing it down the line is still game though.

Sign ups should be aware that SGs normally take around 3 months to complete, this one will probably take even longer with all the discussions. If you don’t have this kind of time or commitment, don’t sign up. If you're a chieftian/warlord player & afraid of signing up for a Monarchy game, don't be. I'm very confident in our success, I even wanted to make it Emperor but Bugs pointed out to me that we'd never get sign ups.

Civ is open for debate.

Once we get our roster set I’ll post more details.

 

[Gengis Khan]

Sorry for anyone that lost a post when I choped out 24 posts, PC doesn't mean that much anyways.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Trainers:
Gengis
Bugsy

Trainees:
binyo66-
alerum68-
Scouts- Just played.
gm1- Up!
Mistfit- Hopefully on deck.
Solar- on the bench
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This section is dedicated to ControlFreak, who will be leaving the forums again shortly. But in his short relapse back to CFC has still managed to contribute to this SG easily more then I have. Thanks for all the help, and best of luck in your new job!


This list is mainly for new members/lurkers, but is useful to look back on our choices & discussions for all players. It will be edited as we go along........

The Turns Played
(Bullets indicate progression of play)

• [*]Starting Screen Shot
  [*]After Moving Worker (1st Move)
  [*]After Moving Scout (2nd Move)
  Shoguntaka's first turnset*
  Scoutsout's first turnset
  SolarKnight's first turnset
  Infoman's first turnset
  [*]The Chosen first turnset (Shoguntaka's)
  [*]Round 2 - SolarKnight 3450BC-3000BC
  Trainer Evaluation Round 2
  [*]Round 3 - Scoutsout 2950BC-2550BC
  Yoshi evaluates Round 3
  Trainer Evaluation Round 3
  [*]Round 4 - Shoguntaka 2500BC-2150BC
  Trainer Evaluation Round 4
  [*]SolarKnight's Turns (2100-1790BC)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 5
  [*]binyo's turns (1790-1525BC) (pics in next post)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 6
  [*]alerum's Turns (1500-1275BC) (maps in next post)

Team Planning
(Thoughts, note, plans related to this game)

• [*]Reading the Map (MapMakers Notes)
  [*]On Moving the Settler
  [*]Settler Factory (w/Pictures!)
  [*]Start of City Planning Discussion (Read through the next few)
  [*]Dot Map (MapMakers) (Scroll for the others above and below it.)
  [*]Nearby AI (MapMakers Notes)
  [*]Workers and Settler Factory
  [*]Closest working DotMap(Shogun's map includes the capital and next two cities settled.)
  [*]City Planning
  [*]Pro/Con List of 2nd City
  [*]Initial Plan through Middle Ages
  [*]Second and Third City Potentials
  [*]Further City Planning (+ Dotmap)
  [*]City Planning
  [*]Pre-prewar Planning & Discussions
  [*]"Core" Cities Layout (dotmap)
  [*]Next City?? Pros vs Cons (dotmap)
  [*]RCP vs non-RCP
  [*]Pre-war Planning/Questions
  [*]RCP City Planning (dotmap)
  [*]Future Cities (dotmap)

Basic Game Information
(Things that should be in the manual or are but missed by some players)

• [*]Possible Results from Tribal Huts (Goody Huts)
  [*]Importance of Your Initial Unit Move Order
  [*]Game Mechanics
  [*]Choke Points
  [*]Benefits of Cities on Hills
  [*]Whipping Citizens for Production (Trainer prefers not to)
  [*]Scouting - "Confirm or Deny"
  [*]Research and Trade
  [*]Technology
  [*]Minimum Science Gambit/Argument against Spears
  [*]Scouting in AI Territory
  [*]Using Spears Effectively
  [*]Crossing Rivers (How the Movement Penalty works)
  [*]"Cardboard Cutout" Early Defense Strategy
  [*]Different AA Military Strategies
  [*]Civ3/PTW Mood Badges Graphics (link to graphics mod that makes your cities 10x easier to manage)

Advanced Game Concepts
(The Finer Points of Beating Civ)

• [*]Settler Factory with City On Bonus Grassland
  [*]Fine Points of Size 7 Cities (T-Hawk)
  [*]Polytheism Minimum Science Gambit
  [*]Ring City Placement (RCP) Discussion
  [*]Early Food in City Planning
  [*]Evaluating Strength vs Fast Zulu Impi
  [*]Early Cities(Planning & Maximising)
  [*]Min Science Gambits/Settler Factories
  [*]Micro-Managing & 4 Turn Settler Factories(Pictures showing exactly how to)
  [*]Governers (Whch tile will be worked by new citizens)
  [*]Building Improvements without Waste (and Movement Penalty for Crossing Rivers)
  [*]More Pre-War Questions (Despot GA vs Wasting the Lifespan of your UU)
  [*]Early Worker Priorities and Factories (pictures)
  [*]4 Turn Settler+Warrior Factory (Link to post/pictures that shows exactly how to set up this very advanced factory)
  [*]Massive Warrior-Sword Upgrade (continued on next page)

Game Administration
(Trainers Rules,Exercises)

• Initial Approach
  Rules for this Succession Game (SG)
  [*]Trainer Exercise (Quoted) and Answers
  [*]Questions/Answers Round 3

Fineprint: I take no credit for the idea or hardwork that went into making this list. Credit is rightly due to CF, I can just copy and paste with the best of them.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Since Gengis has been MIA, DJMGator has been kind enough to update the previous post. None of this is my work. I'd like to express my thanks to all those lurkers who have contributed to this Training Day Game. They have added greatly to the conversation and the overall knowledge of the Civ community.

Trainers:
Gengis (MIA)
Bugsy
Bede – added after Turn 14

Graduate Assistant:
Scoutsout – a former trainee who learned too much

Other Former Trainees:
Shoguntaka
-Oblivion-
binyo66
spleen1015
qm1- MIA (at sea?)

Current Trainees:
coletite – waiting
GJ – waiting
alerum68 – just played
Mistfit-UP
Solar – on deck
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This list is mainly for new members/lurkers, but is useful to look back on our choices & discussions for all players. It will be edited as we go along........


The Turns Played
(Bullets indicate progression of play)

• Trainer Evaluation Round 7
  [*]Round 8 - Scout’s Turns (1250BC-1025BC) (maps in next post)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 8
  [*]Round 9 - Shogun’s Turns (1000BC-800BC)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 9
  [*]Round 10 - alerum’s Turns (775BC-590BC) (maps in next post)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 10
  [*]Round 11 - Scouts’ Turns (570BC-390BC) (maps in preceding post)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 11
  [*]Round 12 - Mistfit’s Turns (370BC-210BC) Japan Eliminated (Posted in 2 parts, Part 2 & maps on following page)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 12
  [*]Round 13 - coletite’s Turns (190BC-10BC) The ZULU War has begun (maps in following post)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 13 (Posted in parts and continues to the next page)
  [*]Round 14 - GJ’s Turns (10AD-190AD) The ZULU War almost completed (Posted in 3 parts & maps in following posts)
  Trainer Evaluation Round 14
  [*]Round 15 - alerum’s Turns (210AD-320AD) The PER War and more contacts (Posted in parts (with a mid-round discussion) & maps on following pages)

Team Planning
(Thoughts, note, plans related to this game)

• [*]Foreign Palace / Second core / Palace Jump early discussion
  [*]How many cities do you see
  [*]The Colossus Debate – continue attack or wait for AI to build a Wonder
  [*]The Colossus Debate Continues & Japan Battle Plans (over the next several pages)
  [*]Monarchy Government Discussion
  [*]What to do about Nara
  [*]The State of Empire is addressed and Foreign Palace Discussion (Continues over several pages)
  [*]The Mounted Warrior Discussion & Pillaging Continues over next several pages leading to Exercise GK2.1
  [*]Plans to annex ZUL & PER territories Continues over next several pages
  [*] Where’s Waldo…err GK is explained - War Plans against ZUL & PER put on hold to form a Raiding Party headed to Wilmington, NC – Continues over next several pages
  [*] A Republic Debate & later a Victory Condition Discussion Continues over next several pages
  [*] The Foreign Palace Placement & Palace Jump Discussion Resumes Continues over next several pages
  [*] The Great Leader Debate – Army? FP? Which Great Wonder? Continues over next several pages
  [*] Battle Plan Draft for Persian Invasion Continues over next several posts

Basic Game Information
(Things that should be in the manual or are but missed by some players)

• [*]Scouts’ Keyboard Compass Graphic
  [*] Link to Dianthus’ CRp Suite Utility Program – contains Rings & MapStat
  [*]Marketplaces Examined Continues over next several pages
  [*]UN Votes & the AI Continues over next several posts

Advanced Game Concepts
(The Finer Points of Beating Civ)

• [*]A little more on Micro-Managing & Minimizing Growth & Production Waste
  [*]Scout’s Marine War Academy Link and Scout becomes a Graduate Assistant
  [*]denyd’s Trading yourself into the Middle Ages (See GK2.2 – A Trading Exercise)

Game Administration
(Trainers Rules,Exercises)

• [*]Zip File Containing All TDG Saves (Will be updated as game continues)
  [*]Q&A from Round 6
  [*]Q&A from Round 8
  [*]Questions from Round 9 (Answers are on next several pages)
  [*]Questions from Round 10 (Additional Questions and Answers are on next several pages)
  [*]Questions from Round 11 (Answers are on next several pages)
  [*]Answers from Round 11
  [*]Our newest Settler & Future Iroquois Queen Check the Sig for “The New Love of My Life”
  [*]Questions & Answers from Round 12 (Answers on next several pages {intermixed with FP discussion})
  [*] Link to GK2.1 Skirmishing Exercise
  [*] Link to GK2.2 Trading Exercise
  [*]Questions & Answers from Round 14 (Answers on next several pages)
  [*]Questions & Answers from Round 15 (Answers on next several pages)

 

[shoguntaka]

I use Conquests 1.15

If I get to choose a religious civilization, I would pick the Celts.
I've never played them before, and their gaellic warriors sounds interesting.

 

[shoguntaka]

I have all the versions, the vanilla CivIII, and the PTW as well.

 

[Turner]

Just checking in. I'll be lurking this thread. May download the turns and see what I would do with it. I'll try not to armchair quarterback too much. Not that I'm the best player around - far from it. Just opinionated.

 

[SolarKnight]

The iroquois would actually be a very intresting team to play, especially as their UU is so strong early on.

 

[Gengis Khan]

Well we've got 4 players, so we can start going through the motions. Here we go:

Shoguntaka- C3C & 1.29
SolarKnight- C3C & 1.29
Infoman- C3C & 1.29
Maxverve- 1.29

My question is does anyone mind stepping back to 1.29 so maxverve can play?

 

[barbslinger]

First off I want to congratulate the 4 gamers that show initiative to wanting to step up thier game a few notches. I was truly amazed by my improvement and the differences in what I do each turn after playing in SG's and of course reading what is emphasized by the best players.
I thought there would be 10-15 people out there that would want to get in on this and I'm really surprised there are only 4. Perhaps more will come forward as they see this progressing and another can be started for them.

 

[Gengis Khan]

I think we scared away like 30 people when the word Monarchy came out. New players don't realize that once you make a few subtle changes to your playing style, improve your opening game, and learn to effectively trade Monarchy doesn't play any different then Warlord. You're still the tech leader, the pace just moves faster.

 

[infoman]

will be fine with me. Just let me find my PTW cd-rom. Have we decided on a civ yet?

 

[Gengis Khan]

Actually I was reffering to "vanilla" 1.29.

IRCC PTW is patched to 1.27, don't really know though seeing as I don't have PTW.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Actually it is on your C3C disc. You'll see a CIV3PTW sub-folder in your CIV3 folder.

 

[infoman]

is fine also. I know where that cd-rom is. So, which civ are we going to use?

 

[shoguntaka]

I don't mind going with the Iroquois. I've never beat a game with that civ.

 

[mad-bax]

4 pple is enough for a TDG. The sets take longer to turn around, and the work for the trainers is immense. Personally I'd close the roster and get on with it.

 

[Sir Bugsy]

Very well then. Since Gengis hasn't piped up yet, let's assume we're playing 1.29f with Infoman, Solarknight, maxverve, and shoguntaka.

Let's start with a well reasoned statement on which civ each of you would like to play. Not something like.. "Immortals rock dude!!"

Something more along the lines of: "The Industrious trait will allow our workers to complete tasks quicker, while the militaristic trait will give us cheaper barracks and a better chance at a leader. I think we need cheaper barracks because....."

 

[SolarKnight]

I think it would be intresting to play as the arabs or the iroqouis, as i don't often play expansionist civs, as they involve a completely different playstyle to other civs.

The expansionist trait, on any level would ensure we get no barbarians from goody huts, and depending on the landform we decide to use on the map, will usually provide us with a boost to our technology rate. (IMO always a good thing).

Both of these civs also have strong UUs, which are good for warfare, so if threatened or in need of a resource, we can aquire it through more aggressive means more easily, if there is no option to trade.

 

[Gengis Khan]

Since we'll be using "vanilla" civ, all PTW & C3C civs are out.

This leaves:
Japan- Rel/Mil Samurai
India- Rel/Comm War Elephant
Egypt- Rel/Ind War Chariot
Babylon- Rel/Sci Bowman
Iroquis- Rel/Exp Mounted Warrior -1 vote

 

[shoguntaka]

I would like to go with the expansionsit trait, because I've never really learn how to take full advantage of it, yet. Also, with this trait, we can learn how to make a dot-map, and how to plan a better city placements since we'll be seeing more of the revealed terrains.

Plus, the Iroquois Warrior is easy to pop-rush too. Pop-rushing is another aspect I would like to master.