Global Warming Mechanics

[SpartanU]

How does the global warming mechanic currently work in HR 1.24.1? In my games I've noticed global warming events are concentrated around extremely unhealthy cities, but are the vanilla global warming mechanics also enabled? I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that all the K-Mod global warming mechanics were disabled, and was wondering what global warming mechanics will likely look like in future versions of HR?

*The rest of this (quite lengthy) post is suggestions I have for improving the global warming mechanic in HR (and implementing global warming features form K-mod in HR)

I personally liked the K-mod global warming mechanics overall, and think it should be implemented into HR with some modification. The unhealthiness levels in HR are very inflated (compared to k-mod) as a result of pollution from improvements, corporations, and additional buildings, so modification to k-mod's GW mechanic would be necessary to adapt it to HR. I think the best feature K-mod's global warming mechanic is that each turn accelerates or decelerates the rate of global warming events (essentially the civs on the map are steering the rudder of a very large ship, and the player can't wait to address climate change until it becomes an overbearing issue). Overall though, I think the mechanic would work even better in HR (after some changes) than it does in K-mod alone.

Environment Adviser:
The "Environment" tab in the financial adviser is what makes K-mod's GW mechanic make sense to the player, so I think it should be included in some way (even if HR does not adopt a similar global warming mechanic); however it would make more sense if it was unlocked after researching Computers and Satellites.

Info Screen:
Add a chart of rate of global warming events, or global warming events

Runaway Greenhouse Effect:
Also K-mod's global warming mechanic does not feature a "runaway greenhouse effect", but it could be implemented if "Sea Ice" and "Ice" tiles were accounted for as offsets to global pollution (like forests and jungle were in K-mod). This way if the global warming mechanic was set to affect the poles first it would melt the ice and accelerate the rate of global warming. (These additional offsets could also help negate the inflated unhealthiness in HR)

Reefs:
HR already has reefs and the Great Barrier Reef, so it would be cool if these could be included in a global warming update. I'm thinking the reefs could have two additional stages:

Dying Reef: some unhappiness, occurs when global warming severity is medium

Dead Reef: more unhappiness, occurs when global warming severity is high

Offsets Re-balance:
K-mod made the offset value of forests and jungle both 10, but I think it makes more sense for the values to be different based on biomass, specific heats, and solar radiation reflection. Here's how I think the values should rank:

Savanna < Forest < Jungle = Sea Ice < Ice
(e.g: Savanna = 5, Forest = 10, Jungle = Sea Ice =15, Ice = 20)

Utilization of Future HR Technologies:
Many of HR's future technologies only serve the purpose of building spaceship parts, but they could be implemented to help players cope with the global warming mechanic. Here's some ideas I had:

Biotechnology:
Can plant savanna, forest, or jungle with labourers (and also can only plant in certain terrains and latitudes)

Fusion:
Can build fusion reactor to power city (for cities outside of solar panels range, also would make sense for current HR tech tree because renewables are required to research fusion).

Loss of Land Tiles:
I'm on the fence about whether I think land tiles should be lost as a result of the global warming mechanic, because each tile covers such a large area (so the change will feel very abrupt), and also what will happen if a city is on a tile that is supposed to turn to ocean (does the city move inland or is it destroyed?); however it also makes no sense if the poles have completely melted and the continental landscape to remain unchanged. Also if this feature is eventually implemented, would it be linked to loss of Ice and Sea Ice, global Warming Events, or something else?

I suppose my suggestion for this feature (if implemented) would be to base it off of Ice/Sea Ice, and then not convert any tiles until a significant portion of the Ice/sea Ice tiles have already melted. This is because the Ice/Sea Ice will be melting very slowly to begin with, so the average loss of coast will be very small, and the civs that suffer the consequences of land loss would be very disproportional if an entire tile was lost while the other civs had no negative consequences. Tiles could convert to wetlands with increasing frequency leading up to the moment when tiles are eventually converted to ocean.
(e.g. If each melted Ice/Sea Ice converted 1 tile to ocean, and the first 50% didn't convert tiles to ocean, then each melted Ice/Sea Ice after the first 50% had melted would convert 2 land tiles to ocean (not saying the ratio should be 1:1, or percentage at 50%; it would likely need to be tested out with different ratios to make it most reasonable))

Local Global Warming:
I already think this is implemented (as I mentioned in my original question) but I think it is a good feature and would keep it in addition to any future global warming mechanic changes.

 

[Joij21]

Interesting ideas. I think for loss of land there should be different stages similar to what you have mentioned.

Island/Atoll Submersion Stage
The first stage. Islands and atolls disappear into normal coastal and ocean tiles.

Early Erosion Stage
As ice begins to melt any hill tiles adjacent to the ocean will begin to be converted to flat land (mountains will be excluded as they are too tall) due to rising sea levels battering the coast harder and causing them to erode.

Erosion Stage
As ice continues to melt, flat land on the coast receives a -2 commerce penalty due to eroding beaches disrupting tourism and flooding rich coastal properties.

Extreme Erosion Stage
Flat land on the coast will now receive -2 production and -2 food due to increased coastal flooding pushing inland making soil unsuitable for crops, and causing extensive and costly property damage to various manufacturing businesses and transport.

Wetland Stage
Flat land will now get a wetland feature placed over it as flooding becomes so bad that the area is converted into a swampy marshland. Any trees or improvements will be destroyed. However cities on flat land during this stage will undergo their own unique stage before the final stage.

Flooding Stage
Cities during this stage will begin to flood. Each turn a random building or 1 population will be destroyed. For each population point that is eliminated a free laborer will spawn in the city to represent a group of homeless people evicted from their now destroyed homes looking for work or to be resettled in another city inland. A city can avoid this stage entirely if it builds a coastal levee. If not then once a city has no more buildings and has only 1 population it is then that the final stage shall commence...

Flooded Stage
During this stage all wetland tiles or cities that have progressed to the end of the flooding stage will now be completely destroyed. In their place they will be converted to coastal tiles with islands on them.

I also have an idea to reinforce eroding land with laborers to slow/prevent the creeping effects of the rising sea levels. So if you have stone or maybe even a new sand resource(gravel and sand) then your laborers can reverse a tile's erosion stage by one. For example if you have a tile that just became a wetland from a certain inconvenient truth, you can drain it for 200 gold (draining wetlands will now cost this to make stopping global warming harder and for balance reasons). Now the tile will be reverted to the extreme erosion stage. If you have the sand or stone resource you can pay 100 gold to reinforce the soil to prevent erosion thus removing the production and food penalty. Now the tile is in the erosion stage, if you pay 50 more you can reinforce the eroded beaches thus removing the commerce penalty. However if the tile was once a hill you will not be able to convert the flat tile back to one (sorry once you let your hills go they're gone forever). In the short term this can be quite useful but a reinforced tile can still flood again as more ice melts so you will need to constantly reinforce your tiles. In the long term though this can be quite damaging to your treasury as this will be happening to your whole coastline. You can expect to pay thousands maybe tens of thousands of gold before there is no more ice to raise the sea level anymore. In the end it may be more wise to adopt a more sound ecological policy for your empire to stop global warming entirely. Plus I believe a few non preventative effects of global warming should happen such as...

Actual Climate Change
Colder terrain warms first with ice becoming tundra and later grassland. At later stages grassland becomes plains and eventually desert (Al Gore help us all!).

Ecological Collapse
Yep. If it goes on for too long eventually wild animal and marine resources will begin to be removed slowly from the map to simulate them going extinct as they struggle to adapt to the new climate.

Increased Weather Related Events
As global warming progresses the amount of weather related random events increases. Such as the frequencies of forest fires, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.

 

[SpartanU]

The first stage. Islands and atolls disappear into normal coastal and ocean tiles.

I agree that these should disappear randomly

Early Erosion Stage
As ice begins to melt any hill tiles adjacent to the ocean will begin to be converted to flat land (mountains will be excluded as they are too tall) due to rising sea levels battering the coast harder and causing them to erode.

This makes me wonder if leaving the hills unaffected (or much less likely to be affected) by the sea level rise, would lead to some cool terrain features from sea level rise such as island that are large enough to build cities on

Erosion Stage
As ice continues to melt, flat land on the coast receives a -2 commerce penalty due to eroding beaches disrupting tourism and flooding rich coastal properties.

Extreme Erosion Stage
Flat land on the coast will now receive -2 production and -2 food due to increased coastal flooding pushing inland making soil unsuitable for crops, and causing extensive and costly property damage to various manufacturing businesses and transport.

I think these penalties might be too large. It would be interesting though if there was a penalty that caused dissent to indirectly increase in your cities (via food loss, unhappiness, etc.). As a result the global warming mechanic could be used to encourage civil wars, or push the player to adopt low dissent civics (such as sustainability)

Flooded Stage
During this stage all wetland tiles or cities that have progressed to the end of the flooding stage will now be completely destroyed. In their place they will be converted to coastal tiles with islands on them.

I think islands are a really good idea for converting submerged land tiles to

Actual Climate Change
Colder terrain warms first with ice becoming tundra and later grassland. At later stages grassland becomes plains and eventually desert (Al Gore help us all!).

I think K-mod has a similar feature that worked very well

Increased Weather Related Events
As global warming progresses the amount of weather related random events increases. Such as the frequencies of forest fires, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc.

This is a really good idea

 

[dretnoth]

About that title flooding to ocean. How about it dint turn into ocean bud into some cross between land and reef?
How about it firstly it can turn to something like:

-"sinking land" - causing additional unhealthiness and unhappiness or lose on commerce or industry, but possible bonus on sea food production or commerce boost if village is presents. (Maybe some diversity will be fine like: beach (sinking dessert), solid coast reef (sinking hills), Shallows or bogs (wetlands), mud (grass), ...)

then into
-"flooded land" - that will be crossover between land and sea, but movement cost double and if road (or higher) not present not-pasable for not infantry units. (mounted, artillery, armors) It will have some like -25% combat penalty for all defenders. (land/naval)

Turning into flooded land the title will lost most of his improvements but can be use to construct improvement:
"coral farm" for commerce or industry
and "reef farm" for food
(both profits based on tech)

But most of us will pay to build "anti flooded wall" for decreasing percentage chance for flood spreading from sinked land to other titles or prevent him to turn into flooded land.
But it will be bombard able improvement? (Causing flood that will have some value from 1 to maybe100 and if it will not clean up it will turn into flooded land. Or have high % chance to turn it into), or something like great wall?

Events:
-Anti Flood Wall Breakdown (by wheatear, spy, dissidents, hurricane )
+spend loot of money to make the wall better and grain happiness boost
+solve solution
+Evacuate the area (50% chance fo protest or compassion in near city)
+Forcible fail the rescue operation and Blame the hated or nearby empire
+blame dissidents and establish Martial law to freeze dissent bar


-Land lowering / land moving. (by volcano eruptions or earthquakes or mistake in mime)
+spent money to build wall
+... to save resource that can be moved (I wonder if work ships can establish mine (causing unhappiness in near city) for some metals)
+Evacuate the area (50% chance fo protest or compassion in near city)
+Forcible fail the rescue operation and Blame the hated or nearby empire

 

[Xyth]

but are the vanilla global warming mechanics also enabled?

No, they are disabled entirely. HR currently uses Platyping's Local Warming system.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading somewhere that all the K-Mod global warming mechanics were disabled

Also disabled, as it would need to be extensively rewritten to function on Mac, to the point where it's just easier for me to implement my own version. I will definitely peruse K-Mod's implementation for ideas though.

I intend to work on the Climate Change mechanics in 1.25. Busy with other tasks and distractions at the moment, but when the time comes I'll have a thorough look through this thread.

 

[SpartanU]

No, they are disabled entirely. HR currently uses Platyping's Local Warming system.



Also disabled, as it would need to be extensively rewritten to function on Mac, to the point where it's just easier for me to implement my own version. I will definitely peruse K-Mod's implementation for ideas though.

I intend to work on the Climate Change mechanics in 1.25. Busy with other tasks and distractions at the moment, but when the time comes I'll have a thorough look through this thread.

I'm playing through a game on windows and I think the old nuclear global warming effects are still active. I've experienced the local global warming as expected, but after launching 10 nukes I'm starting to get random global warming around healthy cities.
I went into world builder and launched a lot of nukes, and once you proceed to the next turn a lot of global warming occurs despite the cities being mostly healthy (once you go to the next turn they mostly become unhealthy from the global warming destroying resource improvements)

 

[Joij21]

The local global warming system still uses nuclear global warming. When a city is unhealthy it merely increases the chances of global warming happening around it. Healthy cities still have a minute chance to have global warming happen around them however the chance is so rare its almost zero. When nukes are used the chance of all cities globally having local warming are multiplied. Therefore even healthy cities which would normally have almost never any warming begin to warm. The nukes are simply global multipliers but they multiply the base values a lot per nuke. I believe if more then twenty are used then the warming of healthy cities is about the same as unhealthy ones. The mod does however place a local warming cap to the frequency for the rate of warming around cities. So your unhealthy ones shouldn't accelerate past the frequency of healthy ones once you've hit the maximum. But I should warn you that the maximum frequency is still fast enough to essentially turn your planet into Mad Max Fury Road before your game is over. And the nuke multipliers are permanent for your world so no matter how healthy your cities are the warming will never stop. Its like what the Donald once said, "When people talk global warming, I say the global warming that we have to be careful of is the nuclear global warming.".

 

[SpartanU]

The local global warming system still uses nuclear global warming. When a city is unhealthy it merely increases the chances of global warming happening around it. Healthy cities still have a minute chance to have global warming happen around them however the chance is so rare its almost zero. When nukes are used the chance of all cities globally having local warming are multiplied. Therefore even healthy cities which would normally have almost never any warming begin to warm. The nukes are simply global multipliers but they multiply the base values a lot per nuke. I believe if more then twenty are used then the warming of healthy cities is about the same as unhealthy ones. The mod does however place a local warming cap to the frequency for the rate of warming around cities. So your unhealthy ones shouldn't accelerate past the frequency of healthy ones once you've hit the maximum. But I should warn you that the maximum frequency is still fast enough to essentially turn your planet into Mad Max Fury Road before your game is over. And the nuke multipliers are permanent for your world so no matter how healthy your cities are the warming will never stop. Its like what the Donald once said, "When people talk global warming, I say the global warming that we have to be careful of is the nuclear global warming.".

Oh my bad, I didn't realize it was affected by nukes in the mod, I thought it was only net health