Global Warming 'very likely' human made

[Loki130]

Are there other things which people don't think causes warming? Blankets? Cuddling with a loved one? Turning the furnace on?

I've got a going theory that aliens are shooting the Earth with giant lasers

 

[Leonel]

Bumping dead threads cause global war-I mean climate change! Yeah that way all my bases are covered either way.

 

[Berzerker]

It is the coolest August I remember around here. Even all the flowers which normally bloom in the spring are in full glory. We're in our mid 80's when we should be in the mid 90's. And that is without a lot of rain to cool us off.

same here, a beautiful August for Kansas is an oxy-moron... And yet thats exactly what we've had. I wonder how the weather has been for everyone else? "Normal"? Cooler? Warmer? Speak up!

Reduction in solar output? Ice melt cooling the N Atlantic and NE Pacific? Major dust storms coming off the Sahara? Has volcanism increased? El Nino/La Nina? Maybe all that open water up at the North Pole has done something to ocean and/or air currents. The orbital parameters are not conducive for an ice advance and wont be for a few thousand years at earliest, but cool summers is what ice sheets need to grow.

Nah, it'll be hot next year... And thats a good thing. Whats with all the doom-saying and gnashing of teeth. More than half the world's fresh water is locked up in ice. Why is that a good thing? We need that water, and we need the increased habitat. Jesus, 15,000 years ago there was a mile thick ice sheet covering NYC and we're worried about it being warm? I want it warm... I want it warm enough to eliminate or greatly reduce the expansion of ice sheets even when orbital parameters are conducive to an ice advance.

 

[Loki130]

same here, a beautiful August for Kansas is an oxy-moron... And yet thats exactly what we've had. I wonder how the weather has been for everyone else? "Normal"? Cooler? Warmer? Speak up!

Reduction in solar output? Ice melt cooling the N Atlantic and NE Pacific? Major dust storms coming off the Sahara? Has volcanism increased? El Nino/La Nina? Maybe all that open water up at the North Pole has done something to ocean and/or air currents. The orbital parameters are not conducive for an ice advance and wont be for a few thousand years at earliest, but cool summers is what ice sheets need to grow.

Nah, it'll be hot next year... And thats a good thing. Whats with all the doom-saying and gnashing of teeth. More than half the world's fresh water is locked up in ice. Why is that a good thing? We need that water, and we need the increased habitat. Jesus, 15,000 years ago there was a mile thick ice sheet covering NYC and we're worried about it being warm? I want it warm... I want it warm enough to eliminate or greatly reduce the expansion of ice sheets even when orbital parameters are conducive to an ice advance.

Where ever I go there's wierd weather. I lived in Greece for a couple years and they had the most snow for 15/50 years. (never got the exact number) Then I went to Maine in the US, and they had no snow that winter. And when I came back to Denmark there was practically a drought after a spring of intense rain.
And BTW, ice melting could cause a chain reaction leading to an Ice Age.

 

[Berzerker]

thats a theory to explain the Younger Dryas period when a warming world "suddenly" reverted back to ice age conditions for 1,000 years (it was more limited to the N Atlantic region I believe). People have taken that theory and concluded ice melt up north could trigger a similar episode. Just too many differences to make that jump - sea levels then were much much lower and the amount of melt was immense - rapid draining of glacial inland seas. Orbital parameters were transitioning to a warmer world whereas we've been warm for 10,000 years and are near the peak of accumulated heat for an interglacial period. And it didn't last, albeit 1,000 years is a long time. The Younger Dryas was a brutal time for N America, a vast layer of dust covering much of the Maryland side of the Chesapeake has been dated to that period and this is when the mass extinctions occurred. A very warm period followed from 9-5 Kya when sea levels rose to near their current levels (if not a bit higher).

 

[BasketCase]

Are there other things which people don't think causes warming? Blankets? Cuddling with a loved one? Turning the furnace on?

Here's one: opening the fridge to cool the house. If the house was a thermally sealed unit, the house would get warmer, not colder.

The old saying about rocket scientists? Not entirely true. The above catches a lot of people by surprise. Around two-thirds of the students in my college science class got it wrong.

 

[Mountain-God]

Why should the ecosphere NOT behave exactly as it (apparently) has for millions of years? Kuwait cooled down by fifteen degrees for several weeks after Saddam set all its oil wells on fire. When the fires were finally out, Kuwait's climate went right back to the way it had been before.

Earth's climate is dynamically stable; nothing short of a truly Biblical event (such as an asteroid impact) will change the climate.

Granted, an asteroid impact has that 'look at me!' sex appeal we can all agree is big enough to make major changes - when compared to the relatively gradual tho no less massive change of around 80% of the Earth's surface through deforestation, mining, and urbanisation.

But how far do you expect this dynamically stable System to be pushed before it’s equilibrium is out?

We can probably agree that human intervention has the potential to destabilise the system. But how far do you think we can push things before this obvious avarice and arrogance swings about to slap us in the face?

At the very least, a prudent person would consider curbing their impact on a system which is obviously vital to our survival.

It’s not courage that has us shouting ‘damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead!’

What it is is certainly a four letter word beginning with ‘F’

 

[El_Machinae]

Given that the man-caused extinction rate is similar to the asteroid-caused extinction rate, well, maybe comparing humans to asteroids is not too bad of an idea.

 

[BasketCase]

same here, a beautiful August for Kansas is an oxy-moron... And yet thats exactly what we've had. I wonder how the weather has been for everyone else? "Normal"? Cooler? Warmer? Speak up!

Not sure here. We've had some very hot days and some very cold days.

 

[BasketCase]

Granted, an asteroid impact has that 'look at me!' sex appeal we can all agree is big enough to make major changes - when compared to the relatively gradual

Those two words I underlined? Those are the important ones.

But how far do you expect this dynamically stable System to be pushed before it’s equilibrium is out?

That one's easy. When the Sun explodes and dies. Not before.

Even asteroid impacts have had only temporary effects. It does take a long time to recover from those, but the planet always has. There have been five major extinction events in Earth's history, and the planet has recovered from all five. During the Pleiocene era, the planet was much warmer than it is now (the poles were TEMPERATE ZONES!) and life was not merely surviving, but flourishing.


So all the evidence available suggests that it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to destabilize Earth's ecosphere, even if temperatures rise by several degrees. If anything can destabilize the system, it would have to be MUCH larger and MUCH more sudden than anything humans are capable of.

 

[History_Buff]

Sigh, Basket, now you're really stretching it, and even you know it. If you could just stop spouting nonsense like this, I think we'd all be better off. I mean honestly, suns don't explode.

 

[BasketCase]

If another round of "fling the dictionary" is the best you've got, then don't bother.



Anyone got an objection with some actual substance?

 

[cubsfan6506]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiocene#Climate

The wikipedia makes no mention of this temperate poles.

 

[The Fishman]

Those two words I underlined? Those are the important ones.


That one's easy. When the Sun explodes and dies. Not before.

Even asteroid impacts have had only temporary effects. It does take a long time to recover from those, but the planet always has. There have been five major extinction events in Earth's history, and the planet has recovered from all five. During the Pleiocene era, the planet was much warmer than it is now (the poles were TEMPERATE ZONES!) and life was not merely surviving, but flourishing.


So all the evidence available suggests that it is ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE to destabilize Earth's ecosphere, even if temperatures rise by several degrees. If anything can destabilize the system, it would have to be MUCH larger and MUCH more sudden than anything humans are capable of.

Scientists aren't saying that the ecosystems will be destroyed, they are saying that human civilisation will be badly damaged.
Of course a temperature rise of a few degrees isn't going to end all life on earth, but it would definitely end human development.

 

[El_Machinae]

A few degrees will only slow economic growth. That means a dely in getting really poor people out of poverty. A delay in how quickly you'll own your own home. A delay for the cures for cancer. etc.

Ecological tipping points are another concern. They're less certain than the economic damage.

 

[onejayhawk]

Scientists aren't saying that the ecosystems will be destroyed, they are saying that human civilisation will be badly damaged.
Of course a temperature rise of a few degrees isn't going to end all life on earth, but it would definitely end human development.

Definitely?

I doubt it actually. If the average temp rose abruptly enough to cause massiv flooding of the coastal areas, without time to evacuate, you MIGHT manage a severe shock to the cultural process, but you would not halt human development. That's a lot of "if", and no one reputable is predicting it. Even the doomsday predictions are longer term. Humans are much more tenacious than you give them credit.

J

 

[Mountain-God]

Those two words I underlined? Those are the important ones.


That one's easy. When the Sun explodes and dies. Not before.

Even asteroid impacts have had only temporary effects. It does take a long time to recover from those, but the planet always has. There have been five major extinction events in Earth's history, and the planet has recovered from all five. During the Pleiocene era, the planet was much warmer than it is now (the poles were TEMPERATE ZONES!) and life was not merely surviving, but flourishing.

This is clearly a game of 'semantics' were vis a vis relatively and temporary.

At the end, it sounds as though your argument is this:

"It doesn't matter if everything changes and everything else dies - humans will survive so who cares"

I would disagree with the assumption of both (humans will survive, and who cares) points - the first is not a given, and the last is important.

Ultimately perhaps the issue is less about science and more about quality, as in:

What manner of man are you.

I don't think much of the manner of man who chooses to stick his head in the sand, all so he can chase another buck, another Buick - and screw everyone else.

Because the fact is, whether it's temporary, or whatever, millions of humans will die - and this is already being felt - and billions of animals and other species will and are dying.

Somethings are more important than a few petty people's back balance's and human-centric arrogance.

It's the same BS that people spout to excuse invading other countries and the like.

Time to grow up, I say.

If you think humans are just a bit more special and a bit more important than other animals - then perhaps you should start acting a bit more than just another animal looking out for number one.

 

[Berzerker]

why do people just assume a warmer world is worse than a cooler world?

Jesus, its become dogma to the environmental movement. And it aint logical, a world where most of the fresh water is locked up in ice sheets and glaciers is not better than a warmer world with more fresh water. A cooler world has less rain, a warmer world has more rain - rain is generally considered to be a good thing. Longer growing seasons is preferable to shorter growing seasons, which do we get with a warmer world? More habitable land, not just for us, but for wildlife is a good thing, ice sheets are not.

 

[Crbarber22695]

My take is that the scientific community, is, as usual, a bunch of liars and economically-interested incompetent persons, and I'll rather trust a journalist, a lone "scientist" or a teenager on an internet forum over them.

if you're stating that global warming is a lie, then you're very,very wrong.
how do you explain the ice caps melting? the global climate heating? or the increase natural disasters like tornado's and hurricane's (both caused by heat)? global warming isn't a theory like it was in the 70's, 80's, or 90's. It's a well known fact that has been happening million's of years, but is being sped by excess trapping of carbon-dioxide which is destroying our O-zone layer, ever noticed an increase in sunburn over the years?
You must be pretty ignorant to think that global warming isn't real.
And for the one's who know that it is real, it needs to be stopped or slowed by all means. Scientist's believe that we have until 2050, which is the point of "no return". This doesn't mean that 2050 is the end of the world, but the few decades after will be. We have the technology to stop global warming. So therefore we must, at all costs. Economy isn't an issue, it shouldn't be, the issue is that people are too greedy to save the world! I think that human lives, and the lives of all other living things on the planet weigh out the value of all the money on Earth. We need to act now, and for all who think "why should i do something, no one else will..."
Be a leader, our founding fathers said that America will be a nation to set and example for the rest. Think about that. YOU be the example for all, encourage others with YOUR actions to saving the world.

 

[Crbarber22695]

why do people just assume a warmer world is worse than a cooler world?

Jesus, its become dogma to the environmental movement. And it aint logical, a world where most of the fresh water is locked up in ice sheets and glaciers is not better than a warmer world with more fresh water. A cooler world has less rain, a warmer world has more rain - rain is generally considered to be a good thing. Longer growing seasons is preferable to shorter growing seasons, which do we get with a warmer world? More habitable land, not just for us, but for wildlife is a good thing, ice sheets are not.

Um, those ice sheets melt...the world floods. So yes i do like the temperature of the earth right now, i love heat, but i don't want to be incinerated from the sun. Or drown because my once safe home in the Miami Valley will fill up like a cereal bowl.