Gods Effects on Mana

jimi12

Half Jedi
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
324
Location
WA State
So we know that there is entropy, shadow, and other mana that represent the fallen god's spheres. This is a little confusing for me as we can see that those gods' spheres are now corrupted. However good gods' spheres, like spirit, can be used in their normal good form, or for evil such as Laroth is doing. So since it seems that good spheres can be used good and bad, is this the case with bad spheres? Can their be a mage that can master trust mana or foresight?
 

Kael

Deity
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
17,401
Location
Ohio
So we know that there is entropy, shadow, and other mana that represent the fallen god's spheres. This is a little confusing for me as we can see that those gods' spheres are now corrupted. However good gods' spheres, like spirit, can be used in their normal good form, or for evil such as Laroth is doing. So since it seems that good spheres can be used good and bad, is this the case with bad spheres? Can their be a mage that can master trust mana or foresight?

There are two ways to access a sphere, the divine path (through the influence of the gods and their agents) and the magic path (by the influence of man himself.

All spheres can be used for good or evil through the magic path. Through some of the evil ones tend to be corruptive (or put another way the evil gods tend to go after wizards that are dabbling in those arts, Agares tends to be the most powerful in this regard). So its possible to have a good mage who uses dimensional, body or entropy mana. Just like you can have an evil mage that used spirit, law or sun magic.

There is a difference between "can have" and "is likely". Evil mages tend to lean toward darker arts, good mages tend toward less corrupted spheres. Certainly at a high level many good leaders and empires despise and mistrust the corrupted spheres on principle (just like the Overcouncil can outlaw shadow, entropy and death mana).

So there could be a good mage that uses shadow magic, but he is playing a dangerous game and may get a little more attention than he wants, or may find the temptation the sphere offers to be overwhelming. Likewise an evil mage who channels a lot of sun magic will find himself drawn toward honesty, or one that channels a lot of law magic will find himself preoccupied with justice. Which may irritate both of them.

Don't overthink this and take my meaning to be that someone who uses sun magic cant lie and such. These are just tendancies. Slight influences built up over a lifetime, not hard laws.

The true versions of the corrupted spheres dont exist anymore. So there is no way to access the old versions of the corrupted spheres.
 

MagisterCultuum

Great Sage
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
16,459
Location
Kael's head
I would probably say that any sphere can be used for good or evil, but that channeling magic from any sphere throws off one's inner balance between the elements and causes one's personality to change to be more like the god who presides over that sphere. It is also much more difficult to channel a type of mana that is not already dominant in one's psyche. It takes considerably more strength of will to use magic in a way of which the god of that sphere would disapprove, as the act of channeling would bring your desires closer to that of the god and destroy your resolve to keep casting in that manner. Mastering Trust of Foresight is probably possible, but the mage would likely be mastered by Deception or Greed before that is complete. Power relationships are a 2 way street, and it is hard to tell whether one is using or being used by his power. One can never completely master a sphere without becoming the god of said sphere, but becoming a god means loosing one;s free will entirely to the precept.
 

jimi12

Half Jedi
Joined
May 20, 2006
Messages
324
Location
WA State
The true versions of the corrupted spheres dont exist anymore. So there is no way to access the old versions of the corrupted spheres.

This is what I was wondering. So there is no more sphere of foresight nor can any mage do any foresight spells. This being the case, how has the fire sphere been effected since the fall of bhall? would good religions, like the empyrean, condone the use of an evil sphere?
 

Kyzarc Fotjage

Rise Up
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
1,224
Location
Western Washington
So what happens when the god of a precept dies, Mulcarn for example?\
Does the magic of that precept shut down for a while?
When Mulcarn died, what happened to all ice mages?
 

Kael

Deity
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
17,401
Location
Ohio
This is what I was wondering. So there is no more sphere of foresight nor can any mage do any foresight spells. This being the case, how has the fire sphere been effected since the fall of bhall? would good religions, like the empyrean, condone the use of an evil sphere?

True foresight is gone. "Fake" foresight spells are possible in the divine spheres. They are "fake" because they aren't truly telling the future, but passign along the wisdom and guidence of the gods. Which is sometimes as good as foresight, but is fallible, and often carries the gods agenda along with it.

So prophecies still exist, but they are muddy and imperfect. True knowledge of the results of ones actions, which was intended to be a core aspect of the perfect form of creation has been lost, even to the gods.

How good religions treat evil spheres varies by the religion, region or local priest. Some use them without concern. Some mistrust all magic as they see it as a way to circumvent the power of the gods.

So what happens when the god of a precept dies, Mulcarn for example?\
Does the magic of that precept shut down for a while?
When Mulcarn died, what happened to all ice mages?

They are effected by the god as well as the sphere. This is why no one can make ice mana in FfH.
 

Kyzarc Fotjage

Rise Up
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
1,224
Location
Western Washington
So when Bhall fell did fire magic stop?
Or does the god actually have to die?
 

Kael

Deity
Joined
May 6, 2002
Messages
17,401
Location
Ohio
So when Bhall fell did fire magic stop?
Or does the god actually have to die?

Fire magic didn't stop. But it changed from the greatest weapon of the righteous to chaotic, unwieldy and destructive.

The empire that held her in the most reverence, the Bannor, was full of her followers, worshipers and practioners of fire magic. When Bhall fell they were transformed into bestial, violent creatures. What were once Bannor citizens were transformed into orcs, ogres and goblins which is how those creatures were created.
 

Seon

Not An Evil Liar
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
8,128
Location
Not Lying through my teeth
When Bhall fell, the fire became corrupted and out of control. In the old days, fire would only harm the wicked, but now, it harms everyone.

The god actually has to die, but their sphere is still there. It's just not controlled, even less controlled then Danalins or Bhalls in their sleep.


NINJAED BY KAEL
 

Kyzarc Fotjage

Rise Up
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
1,224
Location
Western Washington
How does the fall/death of a god affect arcane users (i.e. mages), as opposed to divine (i.e. priests)?
Because if the fall/death only has an immediate impact on the divine users, then the fall/death would only slowly affect mages. So after Mulcarns death there would still be ice mages, they would just be weaker. After Bhalls fall, many Firemages that didn't actively worship her wouldn't become Orcs. (That would have interesting implications for the human survivors of Bhalls fall)
 

Seon

Not An Evil Liar
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
8,128
Location
Not Lying through my teeth
Before Bhall fell, fire magic was the hardest to control for the "evil Mages." However, after her fall, it became the easiest, so you can say that it also immediately affects the arcane users
 

Kyzarc Fotjage

Rise Up
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
1,224
Location
Western Washington
but alignment has little to do with who can use it; like that a good person is less likely to use death mana do to personal feeling to death.
(sorry, am in hurry)
 

Seon

Not An Evil Liar
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
8,128
Location
Not Lying through my teeth
but alignment has little to do with who can use it; like that a good person is less likely to use death mana do to personal feeling to death.
(sorry, am in hurry)

Do you mean that good alignment people are less likely to use evil spells and vice versa?
 

Kyzarc Fotjage

Rise Up
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
1,224
Location
Western Washington
Do you mean that good alignment people are less likely to use evil spells and vice versa?

I meant that it wouldn't have as nearly a major impact on Arcane users as on Divine users because a Divine user gets all power directly from their god and is limited by their god's alignement or what he/she/it would do, whilst an Arcane user can use any type of magic, the only limit is what the user want. A good mage would corrupt slowly over time if using evil magic, while an evil mage would gooden over time using good magic. Bhall's fall had an immediate and obvious fall on her priests (Orchood/falling to Hell), but had a much smaller and less noticeable impact on firemages (slow corruption, increased danger)

As Kael said about Mages and Good/evil magic:
There is a difference between "can have" and "is likely". Evil mages tend to lean toward darker arts, good mages tend toward less corrupted spheres. Certainly at a high level many good leaders and empires despise and mistrust the corrupted spheres on principle (just like the Overcouncil can outlaw shadow, entropy and death mana).

So there could be a good mage that uses shadow magic, but he is playing a dangerous game and may get a little more attention than he wants, or may find the temptation the sphere offers to be overwhelming. Likewise an evil mage who channels a lot of sun magic will find himself drawn toward honesty, or one that channels a lot of law magic will find himself preoccupied with justice. Which may irritate both of them.
 

Seon

Not An Evil Liar
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
8,128
Location
Not Lying through my teeth
Fire mages were already evil by that time, as with every other mages.

I don't agree that mages using good magic become good with time, Laroth is a good example of it.
 

MagisterCultuum

Great Sage
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
16,459
Location
Kael's head
Laroth may not have become good, but by the time he met Kylorin he had come to greatly regret some of the tings he had done (mostly because of the deaths of his girlfriend and son).
 

Kyzarc Fotjage

Rise Up
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
1,224
Location
Western Washington
Fire mages were already evil by that time, as with every other mages.

I don't agree that mages using good magic become good with time, Laroth is a good example of it.

Fire mages weren't evil until after the fall. Fire was used to destroy the guilty because it couldn't hurt the innocent. Not all mages were evil, just most.

Using it doesn't make you good, just slightly gooder.
 

thomas.berubeg

Wandering the World
Joined
Aug 21, 2006
Messages
9,078
Location
Ft. Lauderdale
Though, as Magister has often pointed out, there is no real evidence that Fire did not harm the innocent. only the Holy Flame in Braduk may have had the ability to not hurt the innocent.

also, Fire could be twisted: Acheron fell long before his mistress.
 

Kyzarc Fotjage

Rise Up
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
1,224
Location
Western Washington
So only divine fire was safe for innocents? I didn't know that, I thought Kael said somewere that fire would only harm the wicked, regardless of whether it is arcane or divine. Guess I was wrong...

But it was far difficult than most magic before the fall, right?
 

MagisterCultuum

Great Sage
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Messages
16,459
Location
Kael's head
I don't believe that he used any qualifiers when he said that fire would not hurt the innocent, but on the other hand I believe that there are references to fire hurting the innocent in the Age of Dragons (and in the Age of Magic, at least until Cardith's childhood was moved back to the Age of Rebirth), and of course to Acheron falling almost as soon as he was created.

Yes, Fire was the hardest magic for sorcerers to use before Bhall's fall, and was almost always called down by priests against them.
 
Top Bottom