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Going for Gold: Corporations

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by pineappledan, Jan 23, 2019.

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Are Corporations in a good state of balance?

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    27.3%
  2. No

    16 vote(s)
    72.7%
  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Will franchises now be +1:c5science:/:c5culture:/etc AND 1:c5gold:, or will the current +1:c5gold: be dropped? I would prefer if the gold stayed, myself.

    Also, just to clarify, unless you are order it is impossible to have franchises spread to your own cities via the random spread chance? Will the random spread chance work for your own cities with the order policy?
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    The +1g stays. There is no blanket rule re: order. I could add something to Nationalization, though. I don't consider Order to intrinsically disallow foreign franchises unless you take Nationalization as a tenet.

    G
     
  3. Enginseer

    Enginseer Salientia of the Community Patch Supporter

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    should we make franchise give more gold(to the city owner) if foreign(any not just corporation owner) trade routes enter the city with the franchise? It already exists code-wise so it's a simple column entry.

    I would imagine 6 Franchises in 1 City can create a lot of jobs and fuel the city's economy there especially with trade...
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  4. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  5. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    Would it be possible to add the description of what a corporation does and what the benefits are to the building tooltip when you pick what to build in the city screen? I am not in-game now, but I remember that I always have hard times finding what each corporation does in the Civilopedia.
     
  6. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    :lol:

    "I wanna get rich by picking my nose! Why isn't anyone paying me for that?!?!?!?!?" :cry:

    But seriously, @Enginseer's suggestion sounds pretty good; makes it worth it to try to be an attractive trading partner; it shouldn't give too much GPT though, maybe 2 or 3 per Franchise or something like that.

    Do you know that there is a whole Corporations category in the civilopedia? If you click on the help button you will see it as the last entry; click on that and it will list all Corporations, which in turn link to everything you need to know about them...it's different from how it normally works with these things (mousing over the building in the tech tree), but it makes sense that it would be this way for Corps because there is much more info about them.
     
  7. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    From what I understand, franchise owners actually make a decent amount of money. The franchise employees on the other hand....
     
  8. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    The question is, why should commodities in a foreign franchise be more valuable than commodities in their own country? I sell my goods not only to foreign franchises but also to my own people. It's like saying that McDonalds only sells his products abroad, but does not make any profit in his own country. Even its using the same ressources than franchises abroad.
    Offices and franchises geting the same ressource bonus make sense, while offices get the franchise bonus too. That would be fine. But now I have another question. What happens if I pick the Nationalization tenet? I thought, if offices and franchises would get both a bonus, in this case offices would get the bonus twice. This would atleast compensate ITR user for having a corporation with a completly useless trade route modifier (like +gold or science for trade routes, which is zero at ITR).
     
  9. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    My thoughts overall:

    - Increased the max Franchises slightly for all Corporations (30, was 25 - the formula alters this, so this isn't a fixed number).

    --Seems reasonable.

    - Every Corporation has a 10% chance each turn to randomly spread to a valid nearby foreign city. This does not replace the TR functionality; it simply accelerates the spread of franchises after founding. This number can be adjusted on corporation by corporation basis.

    --Sure.

    - All Corporations increase the Tourism modifier with a foreign civ by 2%x the # of your franchises in their empire. This value can be adjusted on a corporation by corporation basis.

    --My only issue here is it takes us one step back towards TR to the culture leader being a key requirement of CV. I don't think it takes us all the way back, but its a step.

    - All Corporations now grant 2 free TRs

    --I don't mind this as a base, though I think there is room for 1 TR + better bonuses if we want the flexibility.

    - Corporation resource tile yield bonus now given to Franchises (was formerly for Offices/HQs). So now foreign cities with resources benefitted by your Corporation now get the buff, instead of owned cities (easy way to buff Franchises and make them beneficial).

    --I'm fine with this. As we have all said, its a pretty low bonus, so throwing a bone to the empire you are exploiting is not terrible.

    - Reduced Production cost of Offices to 900 (Was 1100)

    --I personally have never had issues with building offices, but I'm not opposed here.

    Specifics:

    - Trader Sid's:
    Caravansary/Market now +3 Gold (was +2)

    - Firaxite: Added University +3 Science

    - TwoKay: Added Hospital, buff now +3 Food (was +2); Offices reduce all Needs Modifiers in the City by 5%.

    --The needs reduction is good, the food buff does absolutely nothing for the balance overall imo.

    - Civilized: now +4 GAP (was +2) from Customs House and Bank; Offices grant +3% Golden Age Length Modifier per Office

    --While permanent golden ages are more difficult now, I still find them easy enough by this late in the game. I don't think this adds much.


    Something I was considering. At this point in the game, where you are getting thousands of science and culture a turn....and a good bit of it comes from GP bombs (writers and scientists)...do these extra yields actually really matter....at all?

    Is there actually a situation here where the science bonus shaves a turn off of my science needs, or culture getting me a policy one turn sooner than I would have anyway?

    Its just something to consider in general for late game. When your base amounts are so large....it takes a LOT to move the dial.
     
  10. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    In my opinon, corporations are already strong. 15-30 yields in every city is something I wouldnt ignore. Also it seems, you underestimate the trade route modifiers. The amount of basic trade units is 9, with a corporation and freedom or industry, you get 13 trade units, and those starting all in your super culture capital with 250 culture will end in 325 more culture. Or 250 science, or 400 more production. Whatever. I think we should see them as a strong and complex world wonder, and they are fullfilling this part pretty good.
     
  11. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    How are you getting to 15 yields per city?

    The issue with current corporations is that it takes a long time for franchises to be established. As an example, I remember a time I tried using Centarus Extractors to get a huge science % modifier in my capital. However, my ability to trade with foreign cities to build franchises, or to benefit from the franchise was severely limited by war. Then, I finally managed to set up my franchise trade routes, about 10 turns before I won via spaceship.

    I think the reduction of office cost really helps though. I didn't build them before, unless I had industry (even then, they aren't that important)
     
  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    I disagree with you on this point because the problem wasn't TRs necessarily, it was that people could sever the TRs any time they wanted and delay a CV because the modifier was so powerful. At least that is the reason You gave.

    Finishing a TR in a foreign land plants a franchise there, and it stays there even if war is declared. For your criticism to still be valid you would need to be in a constant state of war, starting in Modern until the game ends, which isn't likely. If you hate how TRs affect tourism then fine, but you will need to come up with a reason that encompasses franchises.
     
  13. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Also they can randomly spawn now. So that’s cool.

    G
     
  14. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    They can have an impact on your happiness values, definitely. I don’t think corporations change things dramatically, but I’m reluctant to have them be too much stronger, as they have the potential to rush the end game even more. In this implementation at least, they give incremental bonuses to a lot of different yields, can be pretty strong if you have lots of franchises, and have a slightly larger role in the cultural victory.

    The problem was getting franchises up quickly enough. The random spread chance should help.

    G
     
  15. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  16. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    It uses the pathfinder pretty heavily, heavens knows we need not to tax it further.

    G
     
  17. vyyt

    vyyt Deity

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    Yes, I know it is there somewhere, but I always forget where :) Maybe because I have limited time to play and my games take too long to finish, or maybe because (while I absolutely love almost all aspects of VP), I find the whole concept of corporations boring, so my brain forgets once I find the info and choose the annoying corporation of mine. All I am asking is adding the bonuses to the tooltip of the building in the construction picker in the city screen if possible and too much work. Not for myself, I will always find the info in the Civilopedia eventually. But I think new player must be lost completely.

    EDIT: just to make it clear - when I say I find the corporations boring, it is not VP's fault, it's just me. I don't want to have it changed or anything, I am not commenting on balance, just the UI for the new players.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  18. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  19. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Already does.
     
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  20. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Just a thought, but Hexxon is really geared towards being the Strategic monopoly corporation, which generally requires wide/militaristic to unlock. The Incense and perfume prerequisite resources seem out of place on it. I wonder if we could reshuffle Iron onto the corporation so that it is more obviously focused on strategics?

    Lapis Lazuli : Giorgio Armeier ==> Firaxite Materials
    Perfume : Hexxon ==> Giorgio Armeier
    Iron : Firaxite ==> Hexxon

    It would be nice to shuffle Horses onto Hexxon, and drop Incense as well, but not sure what I would shuffle over.
     

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