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Going for Gold: Follower Beliefs

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, May 17, 2018.

?

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Poll closed May 31, 2018.
  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No

    33.3%
  1. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Going for Gold: These threads are designed to lock down elements of the mod for the gold release. In other words, if approved, no further changes are expected for this item.

    The question is: Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

    Important Notes:

    1) There is no such thing as perfect balance.
    2) The key is that each element is strong enough to have a niche, even if that niche is for very specific playstyles.
    3) If you vote no in the poll, please comment on the elements you think are in an unreasonable state of balance.
    4) If you vote yes, there is really no need to comment. The poll is the key note.
     
  2. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    Overall everything seems to be okay, but so things deserve to be looked at. For example i found myself taking Inspiration in any possible situation. It might be too strong
     
    phantomaxl1207 likes this.
  3. Gokudo01

    Gokudo01 Chieftain

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    I said it once but i feel like inspiration has got almost no value if you pick tradition. the effect is great if you pick authority and decent early if you pick progress before it's overwhelmed by organisation.
    And with many civs I prefer to pick scholarship because it allows you to have more options with tech path : I can delay university while still doing great in science and being able to beline medieval military techs. And there are bath, arena and circus on this side.
     
  4. hr_oskar

    hr_oskar Deity

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    Are Pagodas good? I find them a little questionable but have not really tried them. I feel like they're missing a "reduce unhappiness from religion" effect.

    The "population scalers" are fine, essentially their value is a question of which yield is best. I'd value both hammers and culture over other yields so I pick Diligence most often. Sometimes I pick Veneration simply because that's the only way to keep growing the religion.

    Mastery seems like the worst follower belief by far. Even with a tradition capital it's still unlikely to add as much of the primary yield as a population scaler. So the golden age points should compensate but honestly.... screw golden age points. If players take this with tradition Korea or Brazil then I guess it has a place but.... is it the right choice even in that situation?
     
    Viralvoid likes this.
  5. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    I think +instant yields per pop born got overnerfed. Besides that, most followers have a point, though maybe the buildings deserve a look and perhaps slight boosts in some cases, but they do have a purpose even if they receive no buffs.
     
  6. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    I feel like pagodas should reduce religious needs. Then again they did just get a buff with the addition of an extra religion.

    Only other concern I have is cooperation. Maybe buff it to 6?

    Mastery is very good. 2 yields per specialist is a lot, even if one is a :c5goldenage: point.
     
    phantomaxl1207 likes this.
  7. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    People undervalue golden age points. Mastery often means you average 60 points a turn instead of 10, it has a big impact.
     
  8. peterw1987

    peterw1987 Chieftain

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    Mastery is top tier follower dude.... how dare you say it worst belief.... (unless you are playing with no specialist at all, which is not likely)

    Golden age is important, especially late game, when almost each tile have at least 1 gold. And with some building or wonder effect(bath,national science, etc)
     
  9. peterw1987

    peterw1987 Chieftain

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    Mastery is top tier follower dude.... how dare you say it worst belief.... (unless you are playing with no specialist at all, which is not likely)

    Golden age is important, especially late game, when almost each tile have at least 1 gold. And with some building or wonder effect(bath,national science, etc)
     
  10. hr_oskar

    hr_oskar Deity

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    Yeah I guess I'm undervaluing golden age points. My perception of Mastery is also influenced by recently played games where it hasn't been appealing (despite playing tradition). I did a little napkin math on both golden age points as well as Mastery and concluded they're both better than I've thought so far.
     
    ElliotS likes this.
  11. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 Chieftain

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    Mastery and Artistry for the :c5goldenage: points. Forget Happiness :c5goldenage: Points, just make them yourself.

    I have always been a little bit iffy about Cooperation. It is hard to tell how much the on Birth Yields help vs static per turn.

    What do people think about getting 2 Buildings? How much Is Faith generation a factor in wanting 2 Buildings?
     
  12. Owlbebach

    Owlbebach Warlord

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    Same here, but similar to Goddess of Love, it is kinda AI-only pantheon. If we buff it to be okay for human - it will be incredibly OP for AI.

    In fact i'm thinking about the idea of removing food and growth handicaps for AI. I think it will be a very good change. Just adjust their production handicaps and thats it
     
  13. pza

    pza Chieftain

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    They do.
     
  14. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Is it possible for pagodas to give negative conversion resistance?

    Aka it’s actually easier to spread another religion into the pagoda city? That would be a very unique niche for the building.
     
  15. tu_79

    tu_79 Warlord

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    It's not that it got overnerfed. It's that now growing is not such a good idea. It hurts happiness heavily. Furthermore, the yields from cooperation don't help with happiness.
     
  16. ElliotS

    ElliotS Warmonger

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    Wiki was not updated then lol.
     
  17. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Warlord

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    It isn't locked and needs changed much anyway so let's talk Orders. I think they suck. I'm a warmongering menace and I never take them. It's nice if someone has them on board so I can gently borrow them from his cities, but I'm not seeing much merit in this building.
     
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  18. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    Before they were reducing crime, do they still reduce distress? If they are too weak then 10% production bonus for combat units would be nice.
     
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  19. CrazyG

    CrazyG Warlord

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    I agree. I don't understand why they don't give XP to naval or air units (as a starting point for making them better)
     
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  20. CppMaster

    CppMaster Chieftain

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    They don't? I've always assumed they do. Now I'm convinced that they need a buff.
     

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