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Going for Gold: Follower Beliefs

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, May 17, 2018.

?

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Poll closed May 31, 2018.
  1. Yes

    66.7%
  2. No

    33.3%
  1. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Stupas: Its time to do something about this building. Its garbage.

    Pagodas: So in general I find when your going pagadas on Standard its reasonable to get 3 religions. 4 is a real corner case in my experience.

    So pagodas gives +3 food, prod, science, culture, faith, -1 boredom, but none of the religious boosters that the other buildings get. I don't know, they are decent yields but I think the synagogue and mosque are way better than this, and pagodas tend to attract more religious division than the building stamps out.
     
    phantomaxl1207 and CrazyG like this.
  2. Bhawb

    Bhawb Prince

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    I think Pagodas would make sense to eliminate religious diversion, since you end up taking so much unhappiness from it. Or at least, have a far more significant reduction, maybe scaling based on pop. Make it an option for players who found a religion late and are unlikely to be able to do anything but accept other player's religions, which is a case where religion can't really get abused well anyway. A couple of yields and the same lack of unhappiness any other religion gets would somewhat make up for not getting the normal bonuses from spreading.
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  3. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch

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    I think giving a Stupa +1 raw happiness would give it a niche. Also, I'm going to reduce Mosque/Synagogue % bonuses by 5% each.

    G
     
  4. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I don't usually have happiness problems playing a tourism game, so adding happiness to the stupa isn't making me reconsider.
     
  5. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Don’t forget there’s also some new code goodies that VP can play with, like yields on faith purchase. We also added unitclasses to missionaries and inquisitors, so stupas could give a unique promotion or something. Seems flavourful since the King Stupa, Borobudur, gives a 3rd spread
     
  6. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    It would definitely make sacred sites spam strategy more viable. But it's still very niche
     
  7. phantomaxl1207

    phantomaxl1207 King

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    Unfortunately, the 5 :tourism: isn't worth the Yields coming in Mid-Renaissance. Maybe, that is all that is holding the Stupas, back? Or, perhaps I would rather have raw Yields elsewhere, say :c5science:, :c5gold:, or :c5culture:.

    Having Yields per Followers has a poor synergy with Pagodas; another reason to avoid Pagodas.
     
  8. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    A bit of new code, but it could be interesting:

    What if Stupas gave flat, instant yields on unit purchase, with gold, Faith or both? Maybe it could give :c5gold: when you purchase with faith and :c5faith: faith when you purchase with gold?

    Stupas could have a place in a missionary spamming religion as a semi-reliable gold source, as a good zealotry compliment. It could also be a niche authority pickup for mercenaries, a nice yield boost when spamming diplomats or military unit purchases, if you’re willing to eat the XP penalty.

    I would worry about Borobudur causing an issue though, since you could funnel all unit purchases through a single city. Maybe if it was a small, flat amount like 3-5, scaling with era, in every city with a stupa when you purchase a unit on empire?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2019
  9. Noob Fanboy

    Noob Fanboy Warlord

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    What if stupas give a flat bonus for each kind of allied city state?. Like +2 food for each maritime allied city state, +2 culture for each culture city state, etc.
     
  10. Bromar1

    Bromar1 King

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    I feel like yields-per-follower beliefs are in a bad spot right now. Growth has been gutted while unhappiness has gone up, making the unhappiness reduction from religious buildings much more attractive. You can reliably get similar yields from buildings plus the happiness bonus
     
    phantomaxl1207 likes this.
  11. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Maybe stupas could use the hotel’s %25 :c5culture: to :tourism: conversion from wonders/terrain, if people wanted to keep stupa as the :tourism: faith building. Seems no one likes the flat:tourism:
     
  12. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I do like the idea of bonus per cs ally as a religious building bonus.
     
  13. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Emperor

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    What if the Stupa had something like: +25% of :tourism: in a city converted to :c5science:, :c5gold: and :c5goldenage: (or some other combo/ratio of yields)? Remove the flat :c5goldenage:/:tourism: and +1:c5happy:. I think having it reward :tourism: rather than just give a flat poorly scaling +5:tourism:would be better.
     
  14. Noob Fanboy

    Noob Fanboy Warlord

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    We can even give half of the bonus per cs friend.

    Like +1 food per friend maritime city state, +2 food per allied maritime city state, etc.
     
  15. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    I like both ideas, maybe something like this:
    or on the statecraft side:
    Or
     
  16. azum4roll

    azum4roll Prince

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    Is flat tourism still bad if we rebalance tourism instant yields to something like 1 turn of culture yield + 4 turns of tourism yield?
     

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