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Going for Gold: Ideologies

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, Jun 4, 2018.

?

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Poll closed Jun 18, 2018.
  1. Yes

    50.0%
  2. No

    50.0%
  1. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    And this interception get countered by the B17 free promotion Evasion..... And can get denied by own fighters
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Wait, you're telling me that there are aspects of tenets which are useful against aspects of other tenets, and there are units that can beat other units in specific situations they're designed for? What sorcery is this?

    G
     
    TranceBlossom and civplayer33 like this.
  3. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    I often win by Diplo Vic but I don't often pick Freedom; Diplo is actually pretty easy with Autocracy; I have won SV easily on Order as well. One could argue that Autocracy is actually better for Diplo Vic than Freedom because it allows you to more easily get vassals and, more importantly, keep them. Vassals sooner or later reach their Liberation criteria unless you got them rather late in the game and with Iron Fist from Autocracy you can prevent them from breaking free and then they vote for you in the UN, which is usually a lot more votes than you get from Freedom's TO; it also makes it much easier to get CS allies with Tyranny, Total War and United Front than it is with Freedom.

    Freedom is probably the best Ideology for CV and it's still pretty good for Diplo Vic and decent for SV; Autocracy is excellent for Domination Vic, really good for Diplo Vic and okay for CV; Order is probably best for SV, decent for Domination and okay for CV.
    Freedom is worst for Domination, Autocracy for SV and Order for Diplo Vic.
    They all have their strengths, they all have their weaknesses and that's how it should be. If anything, I'd try to buff Order a little bit w.r.t. SV but I don't see Freedom as overpowered in its military capabilities at all.

    And let's not forget that Domination is the quickest route to victory and most problems in the game can be solved by war, including preventing another civ from reaching it's victory condition; got a Culture whore runaway? Invade! got a Science runaway? Invade! got someone who managed to snag Broadway and has the resources to ally a lot of CS? Invade and take his Wonder and resources! Freedom is the weakest Ideology for these kinds of interventions so it deserves to have a well rounded portfolio.
     
    CrazyG and Gokudo01 like this.
  4. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Sorry Bite, I'm not on board with this one. I really don't see any OPness with Freedom.
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  5. Rekk

    Rekk Emperor

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    Air Sweeps, not Interception. Zeros are supposed to wreck enemy fighters trying to kill your bombers.

    Diplomacy is Superfun with Autocracy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  6. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I had autocracy during my most recent cultural victory. The only explanation I can find for people not seeing this is that they just don't know about what the tenets do.
     
    Gokudo01 and civplayer33 like this.
  7. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Would probably make a really nice Photojournal if you still have some saves and wanna make that effort.
     
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I can't for that game, but I did do a photojournal for the Celts that won from culture with autocracy.
     
  9. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Hmm I can't find it; it's not in the Photojournals subforum and searching for threads posted by you with "Celt" or "Autocracy" in the title doesn't find anything, unfortunately.
     
  10. chicorbeef

    chicorbeef Emperor

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    civplayer33 likes this.
  11. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Well well, Iam still wondering why my last 10 games had always around 80% Freedom picks and only minor Order or Autocracy (beyond that bugfix). And in most cases the Order and Autocracy disapeared due to ideological pressure.
    So, what to do, when this happens again? Which log do I need to save? Can I do that at the end of the game? Or do I have to save the log directly after the Freedom ideology has been picked?
     
  12. TheBigFundamental

    TheBigFundamental Chieftain

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    Freedom's ability to purchase SS parts is broken in its current iteration. IIRC, each SS part costs around 8000 hammers, but you can buy one for around 4400 gold, without any cool down period. Given that in the very last part of the game you can simply sell a lot of buildings in your cities to gain money to buy SS parts, this seems utterly broken.
     
    Rekk, CrazyG and Minh Le like this.
  13. civplayer33

    civplayer33 King

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    Sounds similar to the problem with nukes, except nukes weren't supposed to be purchasable at all.

    Considering that the AI would probably never sell all buildings to buy the SS parts, it's going to be hard to find an amount of Gold that balances this for both the human and the AI; maybe the policy should be changed to only allowing the parts to be invested in, like a building? That way the gap between machine and meat bag would be significantly reduced. It would also serve to nerf Freedom a bit (since people have been whining) and would indirectly buff Order's SV claim, relatively speaking, which isn't such a bad thing, IMO.
     
  14. lunker

    lunker Warlord

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    How do people feel about the timing of Peoples Army? My last game the policy became available long after my Military Academies were built. About a full era afterwards actually. Apologies for the necro.
     
    Kim Dong Un likes this.
  15. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    Yup, this happens every time for me, and it's not just the military academy; there are a few instances where I've already got the buildings constructed across my empire before even getting the corresponding policy. Mainly happens with sea ports and train stations when I go Industry. Sometimes I delay building them until I get the policy, just so I can utilize the production bonus and the policy doesn't feel completely useless...
     
  16. Omen of Peace

    Omen of Peace Prince

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    Agreed. Culture was slowed down a bit over the past year, I feel (early culture from tiles, Inspiration nerf, the exponent in early 2018). Deservedly so, but the policies could use a 2nd look.
     
  17. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Agreed. A change to +50% production towards the building and -50% maintenance could give you a benefit, even if you have already build it. As an example for a change.
    I think there are enough options for the policies to make it more useful instead of a temporary production boost.
     
  18. lunker

    lunker Warlord

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    Just played a Brazil game and was 3 policies ahead of the civ with the second most policies. In this scenario People's Army actually did come on time but only because I was ludicrously ahead in culture.
     
  19. Bhawb

    Bhawb Prince

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    I definitely notice if I'm not playing a culture-heavy civ I usually build the buildings before the tenets.
     
  20. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    Not merely being culture-light, but science-heavy will do this too.

    Can there be some kind of reward given in the case that the building is already constructed when you get a free one? If nothing else, then the value of the building in Gold (production might be abusable for Wonders). I suggest this not only because of how tenets work, but also (for example) for Civs like Carthage when building the Great Lighthouse and get nothing back - Venice got a Great Merchant for the Pyramids because it was getting nothing back; I wouldn't mind this functionality applied globally to any similar situation.
     
    wobuffet likes this.

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