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Going for Gold: Policies

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, May 20, 2018.

?

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Poll closed Jun 3, 2018.
  1. Yes

    46.7%
  2. No

    53.3%
  1. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Not a fan of the first one, but I think number 2 has merit.
     
    Omen of Peace likes this.
  2. Gidoza

    Gidoza Emperor

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    Could you elaborate on your reasons for each? (Not trying to defend my overall position, I'm just curious what you're seeing and how you're evaluating things, especially because one of the suggested perks is similar in both cases.) Also, you failed to mention whether you thought the change you liked would be sufficient, or if someone hung more would yet be required if the first of the two was excluded.
     
  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I am of the opinion that Imperialism doesn't really need a boost. Yes that policy is weak, but I also consider it part of the design....the tree is simply frontloaded.

    That said, the first one is an incredibly good benefit. Lebensraum is awesome, and one of my favorite reasons for taking Authority. I don't think moving that so much earlier in the game is warranted. The second one, I like the increasing of the GA's heal aura, its a direct way to use those extra GAs that your going to get from the policy (and your faith buys for the finisher), and its a solid combat boost without being an all the time boost. So I think it has good mechanical and thematic synergy.
     
  4. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I'm probably a broken record when it comes to Industry, but I keep coming back to the same problem. I can never seem to find a viable niche for it.

    Generally I take Rationalism when I want to push science hard, and feel comfortable with my position war-wise. Imperalism is a very well rounded tree, gives me some good general yields along with solid war benefits to either push a war victory, or hold against a warring player.

    Industry just helps me build more, but I already feel I can build just fine. The one niche I guess for it is for trade focused civs, but its still a narrow one.


    So I had one idea...what if one benefit of Industry speed up your TRs by 25%? This gives me a niche for CV players focused on TR for their tourism, allows players wanting to work their corporations to get franchises up faster, lets a statecraft player shift his TRs around for more influence bonuses to CS...etc.

    This change would give some more general benefits that might make it more appealing for various playstyles.
     
    Arthur Jama likes this.
  5. amateurgamer88

    amateurgamer88 Emperor

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    Doesn't Civilized Jewelers make Trade Units move twice as fast? That combined with this would be extremely broken.
     
  6. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN Warlord

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    What are people's thoughts on Fealty? Overall, the first 2 policies are great but the best case scenarios for Fealty still feel lackluster relative to the best case scenarios for Statecraft and Artistry. Its very unusual in my games to see the runaway taking fealty.

    I'd suggest buffing Burghers to offer a 15% bonus to culture as well as production (and doubling border growth) during I love the King Day, so that the best case scenario for Fealty is increased, particularly for a late game bonus. Fealty usually leads to Imperialism, but that would also give it a synergy with Industry.
     
    How to know and Drakle like this.
  7. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper Prince

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    Fealty already have two policies that yield culture in addition to the finisher, i really don't think Burghars need the buff -at least not more culture-.
    I think -compared to Artistry and State craft- fealty lacks the policy that yields good amount of science as the sole source lf science in Fealty is the Monstaries which is not particularly amazing compared to Scholtacism (a ridiculous policy btw, i think the bonus should be slightly lower like 25%) from statecraft or Humanism from Artistry.
     
  8. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN Warlord

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    When I play fealty, I usually feel like it struggles with culture actually, because the first 2 policies don't give any culture. Maybe that suggests the religion has to compensate by going culture and I've been misplaying it? Or to play with a religion that benefits from spreading and can take advantage of the decreased religious costs. I do tend to play selfish religions more often.

    My overall problem with fealty is that even in its best case, it feels a bit lackluster. Statecraft gets a spy, bonuses towards city states (effectively, some city states as allies and friends, which is happiness, culture, food, science, etc.) and increased likelihood of impact through the World Congress. Artistry gets golden ages and hidden sites, as well as more great people.

    All of those things are strong both in the mid game and in the late game.

    Fealty gets increases to food and religion, and it also scales well with large empires (although I go artistry and statecraft even with large empires because things like maritime cses and xp rewards from city states scale with empire size, as do golden ages, etc.). Religion doesn't usually scale as well into late game though, which is why I was advocating for a buff.
     
  9. SuperNoobCamper

    SuperNoobCamper Prince

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    I think i'm actually biased towards thinking Fealty is in a pretty good spot right now because how many times i actually pick it yet i think it needs a little bit more science somewhere.
    Both Serfdom and Divine right help fighting boredom and giving yields directly but it really only works in wide empires.
    Burghars urbanization-free specialist in every city is invaluable, the +15% production is not a game changing one but it's a nice bonus to have.
    Organized religion is my least favourite policy in the tree tbh, it reminds me of Regimental tradition from Imperialism tree ... A very lackluster bonus on a policy you always pick as the latest one in the tree just to get the finisher bonus ... I think if fealty needs a buff it could go here.
    I remember in older versions Fealty used to have bonuses to ITR which felt really weird to get removed.

    Edit: Oh, i forgot about spreading religion ... you would notice how impactful the cost reduction on faith purchase is once you try it with Reliquary in particular .... In my current game as Brazil i'm literally spamming missionaries in the industrial era and i got Borubudur too, each missionary yields like 1200~1500 culture and around 3K tourism.
     
  10. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN Warlord

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    Gotcha. I'll have to try Reliquary, if I can manage it. If fealty is in a good spot, then I'm not seeing any major balance issues with policies.

    The recent buffs to rationalism did make it the preeminent late game science policy tree and worth taking.

    Authority is in a good place if city states aren't clearing barb camps and in a tough place otherwise.
     
  11. Drakle

    Drakle Warlord

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    One idea I had for Fealty is that a policy would unlock faith purchases of buildings. As in not instant purchases like Reformation beliefs, but like a gold investment and can apply to any building. Well any building you don't have a reformation belief for, since you don't want two different faith purchase options for the same building. It would serve as a neat little faith sink if inbetween instant faith purchasing of reformation belief buildings / you don't need Zealotry purchases at the moment / you didn't pick a faith sink belief. Fealty is supposed to be about city Infrastructure, but that aspect seems a tad neglected. And it isn't a straight buff, since it costs faith. So getting a Great Prophet, or other faith sinks vs speeding some buildings in some other cities.

    Idea would be attaching it to Organised religion, which is a tad weak and normally gets picked later unless pressure is really needed.


    Also buff the Red fort. It sucks.
     
    InkAxis likes this.
  12. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN Warlord

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    Agreed. Palace of Westminster and the Louvre are both impactful. The Red Fort is meh though.
     
    phantomaxl1207 likes this.
  13. Emperorman1

    Emperorman1 Chieftain

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    What if organized religion gave modest science to shrines/temples?
     

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