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Going for Gold: Resource / Monopoly Bonuses

Discussion in 'General Balance' started by Stalker0, Jun 4, 2018.

?

Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Poll closed Jun 18, 2018.
  1. Yes

    50.0%
  2. No

    50.0%
  1. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I don't have an issue with statecraft, but I feel like its already strong enough without it giving my naval units +1 movement (coal) and grossly over-leveling all of my units (oil). Oil's monopoly more than triples the experience ranged units get. 2 or 3 extra XP would still get a great bonus.
     
    Owlbebach likes this.
  2. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    Level 10 is crazy. I have never reached that even when at war almost entire game. AI won't reach that either. Are you playing standard speed?
     
  3. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    I actually just got my first level 10 unit in my last game in forever! It was a battleship to give you perspective on how long it took for me to get it there.
     
  4. ColonelCarter

    ColonelCarter Chieftain

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    Yeah, standard. My current Mongolia game I have several Lancers & Cuirassiers that are already level 6 & 7.
    I only really get that when full warmonger though (I remember it last with Songhai, got some level 10 Landships), but I don't think I've ever had a Global Strategic Monopoly without going for domination victory.
     
  5. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Saying that something is balanced because its not very good when a unit is already level 10 is a weird argument. I haven't had a level 10 unit in at least a year.
     
    CppMaster and LukaSlovenia29 like this.
  6. LukaSlovenia29

    LukaSlovenia29 Emperor

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    Agreed, I'd prefer if strategic&global monopolies on strategic resources were (at least slightly) nerfed.
     
  7. ColonelCarter

    ColonelCarter Chieftain

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    +5 is definitely too much, +2 should be fine.
    It's just weird because it's a late bonus, so it should be very impactful, but XP gain scales really strangely. Though you're right; considering max promotions is like saying Egypt's wonder bonus should be stronger because it becomes useless when there are no wonders left. Probably just leftover salt from when I discovered the limit.
     
  8. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Whoa Whoa. People are talking oil....not the entire suite of strategics.
     
  9. LukaSlovenia29

    LukaSlovenia29 Emperor

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    In my experience, RNG distribution of late-game strategic resources means that it's fairly easy to get strategic monopolies on coal and later resources even if you didn't go on a conquering spree. And if you take Imperialism (which you most likely did if you went the warmongering route), you get an increase in the value of those monopolies, making your army even stronger. And even if it weren't so, the combat bonuses of strategic monopolies further help warmongers to snowball. If anything, I'd prefer if combat bonuses were moved to global monopolies and yield bonuses to strategic monopolies. But that's just my opinion, I imagine that's not the opinion of the majority of the community, and I'm ok with that.
     
    CrazyG likes this.
  10. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    As an example, in that Korea game I'm only 3 oil short of a monopoly with a tiny empire. Those logistics field guns could earn 14 XP a turn.
    This thought crossed my mind as well.
     
    LukaSlovenia29 likes this.
  11. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Dropping Oil to 2XP is easier than upturning the entire cart.


    G
     
    pineappledan likes this.
  12. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

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    Did discussion on whether there should be Culture on Unimproved Luxuries ever go anywhere? I find Furs starts to be outrageously good atm - +2:c5food:, +1:c5production:, +1:c5culture: and needing a single Tech for improvement, plus with a nailed on Religion due to the God of the Hunt Pantheon? It's a clear stand-out. Settling directly onto Gold is also absolutely top notch.

    The only :c5culture: Luxury I've not got and thought "yeah I got this game" is Incense, I think because it is mostly in Deserts and can often literally just be a +1:c5culture: tile with nothing else.

    EDIT: Also, Plantations Resources which can appear in Forests are awful. You have to go through Calendar and Bronze Working to improve them. I think this is Citrus, Dyes, and Silk. There's a huge difference for those resources depending on whether they're on Jungle or Forest tiles. Forest Citrus just makes me weep.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
    LukaSlovenia29 likes this.
  13. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    All of the jungle plantations can appear in forest too. I agree its a tough start.
     
  14. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    Is this an arbitrary limit or there was just no promotions left?
     
  15. Viralvoid

    Viralvoid Warlord

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    Sugars on marsh requires lots of technologies and turns to improve.

    I hate this start.
     
    Enrico Swagolo and Gokudo01 like this.
  16. ColonelCarter

    ColonelCarter Chieftain

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    Limit, units just don't gain XP from combat anymore. They can still be given it (recon revealing tiles, CS city conquest quest, probably Sweden GG too), so you can sometimes fudge the promotion limit.
     
    CppMaster likes this.
  17. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    Frankly by that point the promotions aren't that great. Its more about expanding variety (the unit can do anything), but you aren't truly getting that much stronger. Once your at level 6 or 7 you already have the vast majority of the things you want.
     
  18. Enrico Swagolo

    Enrico Swagolo Deity

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    I think we should buff Tobacco because it's bad.
     
  19. LukaSlovenia29

    LukaSlovenia29 Emperor

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    I agree, culture resource starts are by far the strongest. I would be strongly in favour of reworking furs & co. to remove the culture as a base yield and to compensate them for that.

    Tobacco is a bit weak, I agree.
     
    Chandler likes this.
  20. Chandler

    Chandler Warlord

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    Regarding Tobacco... In theory nicotine is a stimulating substance (even though usually people feel more... "relaxed" than excited when they smoke, because that stops their withdrawal symptoms), so a bit of :c5production: instead of/in addition to the :c5gold: would make sense.

    If :c5culture: resource starts are that game breaking, I don't see why that :c5culture: can't be moved to the improvement, in exchange of another yield. I'm not sure about Nutmeg, though, as it's sort of "exclusive" to Indonesia.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
    LukaSlovenia29 likes this.

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