Going for Gold: War Weariness

[Stalker0]

Going for Gold: These threads are designed to lock down elements of the mod for the gold release. In other words, if approved, no further changes are expected for this item.

This thread will debate the War Weariness system.

The question is: Is this item in a reasonable state of balance?

Important Notes:

1) There is no such thing as perfect balance.
2) The key is that each element is strong enough to have a niche, even if that niche is for very specific playstyles.
3) If you vote no in the poll, please comment on the elements you think are in an unreasonable state of balance.
4) If you vote yes, there is really no need to comment. The poll is the key note.

 

[pineappledan]

With the newest happiness changes, maybe war weariness should be beefed up a bit? I found I could sustain a war pretty much indefinitely in my last Greece game if I wanted to. I only noticed minimal "ticking-down" on my happiness, even for 50+ turn wars.

 

[Txurce]

With the newest happiness changes, maybe war weariness should be beefed up a bit? I found I could sustain a war pretty much indefinitely in my last Greece game if I wanted to. I only noticed minimal "ticking-down" on my happiness, even for 50+ turn wars.

In a war I just had, my happiness stayed the same, but the supply cap was affected, which is enough pressure for me to do something.

That said, this is worth considering, tempting as it is to just make happiness completely irrelevant. Gazebo said elsewhere balance is never-ending, and the new changes to happiness affect the vaue of every happiness-producing building and Wonder. Rather than even consder rebalancing those, it's worth considering whether the new system is fine as is, or needs mild tweaking.

 

[pineappledan]

That said, this is worth considering, tempting as it is to just make happiness completely irrelevant. Gazebo said elsewhere balance is never-ending, and the new changes to happiness affect the vaue of every happiness-producing building and Wonder. Rather than even consder rebalancing those, it's worth considering whether the new system is fine as is, or needs mild tweaking.

As @Gazebo has described it, unless I am misquoting him, or I have failed to grasp his intent, the war weariness mechanic is meant to keep wars more fitful, rather than just perpetual combat. The idea is that war weariness should be strong enough that it creates a "time-bomb" effect, where your positive happiness can be seen as a sort of timer for "you have X turns to kick this guy's ass".

So a bigger happy buffer means you can prosecute longer wars, and maybe even attrition your opponent. Even if you're losing on the field, it adds a propaganda aspect to warfare, where you're also pitting the resolve of your respective populations against each other. That sounds pretty cool to me, but I don't think we've really seen that system in its mature form yet.

In order for war weariness to be felt as intended, I think it probably needs to be a little more noticeable as a mechanic than it is now. Happiness has finally gotten back to a stable, positive place, so I think now we can start to implement this system in the way that G has always wanted to.

 

[Txurce]

As @Gazebo has described it, unless I am misquoting him, or I have failed to grasp his intent, the war weariness mechanic is meant to keep wars more fitful, rather than just perpetual combat. The idea is that war weariness should be strong enough that it creates a "time-bomb" effect, where your positive happiness can be seen as a sort of timer for "you have X turns to kick this guy's ass".

So a bigger happy buffer means you can prosecute longer wars, and maybe even attrition your opponent. Even if you're losing on the field, it adds a propaganda aspect to warfare, where you're also pitting the resolve of your respective populations against each other. That sounds pretty cool to me, but I don't think we've really seen that system in its mature form yet.

In order for war weariness to be felt as intended, I think it probably needs to be a little more noticeable as a mechanic than it is now. Happiness has finally gotten back to a stable, positive place, so I think now we can start to implement this system in the way that G has always wanted to.

I don't know how long you can fight when your supply cap takes a nose dive. That said, if Gazebo's stats show that war weariness isn't having an effect at the point he wants it to, then I'm sure he'll change it.

 

[Gazebo]

I don't know how long you can fight when your supply cap takes a nose dive. That said, if Gazebo's stats show that war weariness isn't having an effect at the point he wants it to, then I'm sure he'll change it.

It's an easier knob to tinker with than needs happiness, that's for darn sure.

G

 

[Txurce]

It's an easier knob to tinker with than needs happiness, that's for darn sure.

G

Yes. The change you just made to happiness is so major, and works so well, that any tinkering done with ripple effects should definitely start in the shallower end of the pool.