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gold v production

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by craney1987, May 18, 2017.

  1. Tacgnol

    Tacgnol Warlord

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    I'd argue that inflation merely lowers the value of gold to be somewhat more in line with production.

    Production is simply not balanced the way the game is right now, it's quite hard to come by, it only increases very slowly with population growth, and by putting hundreds of cogs into buildings, while the main investment production is used for, districts, skyrockets in cost by mid-game as you rapidly tech to the modern era. Gold income on the other hand keeps much better pace with techs and civics, by mid-game it usually costs 20+ turns for a unit or building in most of your cities that you can still buy with a few turns worth of gold.

    Sure there's a cap on production costs and none on gold, but the game doesn't go on forever, it lasts 300 or so turns at most, production costs increase very rapidly in the mid game and by the time your empire's production catches up and gold costs start to really get out of hand, the game is almost over, if every game took 500 turns, it'd be much more of an issue.

    As far as actual usefulness, yes you need districts but wonders are not very good and as people have pointed out, the flexibility to buy units and buildings where you need them and to buy out the great people you really want is IMO more important.
     
  2. Kyro

    Kyro Prince

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    @Tacgnol

    I think we should make a distinction between balancing and the comparative usefulness of Gold and Production.

    I agree that Production values and District costs in particular are very inbalanced.

    That said with regards to which resource is more important/better I think we have to look at which one contributes to the most crucial elements of winning the game.

    Even if it is inbalanced you still need production to build Districts and those are imperative game objectives. At such, since there is no choice on the matter I would think that focusing on the only resource that contributes to the the most important factor of winning the game; i.e districts; should take precedence over another resource (Gold) that only supplements victories.

    In other words it's very possible to win with minimal focus on Gold and a lot of production, but it's far more difficult to win with little emphasis on production and a lot of emphasis on gold, simply because needing 50 turns to build a district as an opportunity cost does not justify the advantage of focusing on Gold rather than Production.

    Also, it should be noted that Commercial Hub districts which are a direct source of Production/Food/Gold because of the trade routes they provide are themselves only acquirable through production. I could essentially get more Gold quickly by focusing on Production to spam Commercial Hub districts rather than focusing on Gold acquisition through other means.

    That said it is true that production is hard to come by; that is precisely why it is so valuable but from experience a strong emphasis on production for commercial hub districts and internal trade routes usually solves most issues regarding production and yields substantial gold as well.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  3. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    This. I have to say gold seems more useful in this game than in Civ5, at least if my memory is serving me well. But production is still pretty damn important seeing as you can't buy districts and some other things in the game. But I love having good cash flow, it really gives me more flexibility. But in the early game, gold has almost no importance to me since I hard build all my units, and use those to conquer (although not every game I conquer). In that case production sets me up for later gold.

    Because I have little use for gold in the early game (I usually just buy tiles), I have to say production is still king.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2017
  4. empresskiova

    empresskiova Warlord

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    Whichever one gets me what I want faster... :p

    For the most part I find gold to be more important and reliable. I generally find that if I don't focus enough on gold generation, then it wont matter how fast I can produce Crossbows and Knights, I won't be able to afford them. Heck, even slow building a district can be helpful. As long as your not at the point in the game where you need to make a serious push to do something major (like recruiting a Prophet or other Great Person), it really doesn't matter when the district/unit gets done.
     
  5. Shorlin

    Shorlin Warlord

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    Production: King
    Gold: God
    Faith with Theocracy: Death, the destroyer of worlds
     
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  6. DudewiththeFood

    DudewiththeFood King

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    Production before Merchant Republic, gold after a couple of traders start travelling internationally.

    Not because production becomes less useful but because gold becomes a viable alternative wherever the city is. Another thing is unless I'm playing a rare domination game, I find I prefer rush buying units on a frontier rather than sinking production into a deterrent I hope is on the right border.
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    There is a time when external routes start providing more that 12 gold.
    As fixed building gold prices to buy are near to 3.4 gold external trade routes with their additional bonuses become more worth it but ssssh let's not tell the idiots that keep all of theirs internal. A little investment in early routes externalmcan make them more profitable earlier too. It's one reason I like to have all my +1 prod districts in the same city and all my food ones in another city, flexibility.
     
  8. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but a great thing about gold is it seems to have relative value to the AI. Which means if you're playing Deity and Gilgamesh is in the modern era at turn 120, he'll happily pay you 30 gold per turn for your oranges. This makes it a great way to catch up when you're behind.
     
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  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    And all those warmongers that say there is no use for diplomacy, or extra luxuries.... muppets
     
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  10. craney1987

    craney1987 Warlord

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    lol. I've been keeping mine internal chasing cogs. But seeing the potential from international routes is actually what drove me to make the original post. Maybe this little piece of intrigue is what will take me to comfortable immortal
     
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  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    it's a small thing in the overall scheme of things. One of the finer points that people are still discovering.
     
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  12. isau

    isau Deity

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    I think we should be careful to avoid splitting too many hairs. In some ways the question is along the lines of "Which is more important, Builders or Traders?" They're both important for various reasons.
     
  13. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    In my most recent 2 games playing as both Germany and England, Germany had a huge advantage. But I should add that isn't a fair comparison since Germany I went the full warmonger route in the beginning where as England was completely peaceful. Both were on the Greatest Earth map mod, so the terrain wasn't that different for either of them, other than England needing shipbuilding to build more than 3 cities.

    I don't have time to test, I'm curious if anyone else has tried to run a test with Germany (representing better production) and England (representing better gold income) on a similar map. My test isn't valid since I used opposite play styles. If I had more time, I'd run a proper test. But from my games the AI Germany (in my England game) was the most dominant opponent in terms of score until I got enough cities and districts built.
     
  14. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    If you want cogs too then trade routes to Military and Industrial city states provide a cog from turn one, and they provide two cogs once the city .state builds its encampment or industrial zone. They also provide extra gold vs. an internal route. My first trade route will go to one of these city state types if they are near, as 1cog and 3 gold at the beginning of the game is superior to 1 food, 1 cog, 1 gold. imo.

    If you slot the policy "Trade Confederation" (available at Mercenaries) you can also get 1 science and 1 culture from the route. Being the suzerain of Jakarta can also add extra gold to the route. I play 90% domination games on continents maps, and I've been toying with a strategy where I build no campuses nor use the Meritocracy policy, and simply use external trade routes with Trade Confederation and Triangular Trade policies active. The switch from internal to external occurs once I've got my own continent conquered and there's not much useful to build besides may settlers and district projects. The extra gold finances what I need in conquered cities on the other land masses.
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    sod the close, I'll start extending trade routes, that's where good money can be made. Every stop along the way.
     
  16. WackenOpenAir

    WackenOpenAir Deity

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    *harvests another luxury to rush units*
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
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  17. cazaderonus

    cazaderonus Actual Dad.

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    Have you played the game ? Saying that pursuing gold is a lost race to inflation in CiVI makes me really wonder. And nope, it doesnt reduces in value. It's easy to get to +700 GPT which guarantees buying basically anything in 3/4 turns even end game.

    As for your point that gold cannot buy district and wonders, i will answer that being able to buy anything else a city might need makes you not care about taking 3/4 turns more for a district... It's still a lot faster overall building a district and then buying almost all its buildings than grabbing 3/4 more hammers to shave a few turn on build times. Also, buying an army instead of building it, here are some more hammers for you for wonders and district.

    Finally, focusing on production or gold isnt exclusive. So getting a lot of GPT doesnt imply you'll have low production cities. But past a certain amount of production, gold has more value because grabbing 3/4 more hammers wont add much.
     
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    District cost scale with builder chop costs. So buy 1 builder and chop the district in.
    Yes my builders inflated
    But my district online earlier pays for that
    I can then buy the buildings inside the same turn and they do not inflate but my gold increases as the game goes on

    Which route should I take here?... deity standard

    upload_2017-5-22_11-6-33.png
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  19. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    Jakarta > Carthage > the field
     
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  20. craney1987

    craney1987 Warlord

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    from the lessons you've taught me, Jakarta then carthage. But you dont have roads there I think? Are you not best served at least connecting your cities first then moving on to make piles of gold?
     

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