Golden Age

[Paul#42]

When should we have it and how do we trigger it?

Benefit
Our GA will boost both production and commerce. So in our situation it's most valuable once we have maxed our cities and finished our infrastructure.
It might be used to run away in science and to build expensive buildings - wonders, unis, hospitals, space parts

Timing
If things went perfect, I'd like to have it starting the moment we uncouple from FREE in research.

In urgency we need to decide quickly and depending on the situation whether our GA is necessary or not.

Trigger
Because that moment is hard to anticipate and a wonder prebuild is impossible to time, I'd prefer to trigger our GA with our UU.
In emergency that should be easy, we will be under attack and we should have some H'Watchas ready by then.
In peace times it's tougher. We'd need to become aggressive or find an ally willing to sacrifice a unit.

If we make it to Modern Times without using it, we could start it by building The Internet or some other combinations. However I think we would need most cities to rather (pre-)build some high tech parts by then... Although The Internet provides quite a boost to science for the finish...


What does The Council think about Timing and Trigger?

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[sirdanilot]

I was always for triggering it with the Internet wonder. I am sure we can sacrifice one city to prebuild for that. And if we miss it, we simply switch to SETI (also a good wonder to have) or continue to prebuild for spaceship parts.

I think that the one who's got the internet will simply win the spacerace. GA + science boost is simply not beatable.

We might also build a commercial wonder right now so we can use the SETI in an emergency to trigger our GA. Although the extra science boost will be way less this is the next best thing. In that case, we have to get Copernicus of the science wonders and builds smith's. We can of course also get free to give us Newton's but we would simply not build it.

 

[Niklas]

I agree that The Internet seems like the best option. SS parts aren't that very expensive, we will probably be able to more than keep up production alongside the research of the necessary techs.

 

[cubsfan6506]

We should also build a decent nuclear arsenal. And we shouldn't hesitate to lose them if wer'e about to lose.

 

[donsig]

cubsfan6506 brings up something I've been wondering about. If we're racing for space, don't we lose our spaceship if someone takes our capital? We will need a very good defense for the endgame.

Saving our Golden Age till after we divorce FREE sounds great to me. We should be able to see the end of the alliance coming and plan a pre-build for the Internet. I'm on board with this plan.

 

[General_W]

cubsfan6506 brings up something I've been wondering about. If we're racing for space, don't we lose our spaceship if someone takes our capital? We will need a very good defense for the endgame.

Yeah, this is why we'd need some kind of "gentlemen's space race agreement" with FREE.
Attempting a Space Race while you have serious competitors who are also in the Modern Age is likely to be a painful and bloody affair. Only way around this is to beat Gong/Babe/Saber to the Modern ages by a solid margin… say 20-30 turns… and have a deal with FREE that we won't attempt to attack each other's continents. IE… a gentlemen's race into space. May the best team win kind of thing.

Anyway, that should probably be part of a Industrial Era MAAP agreement, if it looks like we will indeed be able to A) keep working with FREE and B) get to the Modern Era significantly ahead of everyone else.

If we can't do both of those, it's probably better to shift planning to invading someone with bombers/tanks and just start the fighting on our terms… rather than wait for someone to get nukes and pull a "cubsfan6506" on us!

 

[cubsfan6506]

I don't think we should do this. We may need nukes. Or at least cruise missles. I just don't want someone nuking us.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I'm fine with waiting...

Does anyone actually think we'll be allowed to go into MT and race with FREE for a space victory without SABER, BABE and GONG teaming up on us?

 

[cubsfan6506]

If we have nukes than I say we nuke em.

 

[sirdanilot]

Cubsfan, nukes are very expensive and IIRC if they nuke us we can't nuke them back when our cities have been nuked as this kills all units inside. Besides, we need the highly productive cities that can produce nukes in like 7 turns to produce expensive Space Race parts (in about the same amount of turns). After we've produced parts for the tech we've researched, we might build a few icbms or two, but that's not nearly enough to cripple the other team's core.

The only really useful things we can use nukes for is as spaceship prebuilds... some parts are exactly as expensive as nukes.

The best defense is probably the SAM Battery, but I'm not sure if this defends against nukes.

But will anyone even bother building Manhattan project? Maybe everyone thinks that the other team will be building it for them.

A beeline to integrated defense will only have us to research Smart weapons as for the techs not on the space race programme (and of course ID itself), and if we have a significant tech lead we might get there before Gong, babe and saber get to Sattelites. But this will slow up our space race so much I don't think it's worth the effort.

Edit: As soon as the Manhattan project is built, we might do a little publication in the un forum about them being the agressor and a menace to the world's peace.

 

[Paul#42]

If we have nukes than I say we nuke em.
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Bush isn't the next Hitler, Hitler was the First Bush. Jk

Now this really makes me shiver...

I have to say that my games rarely reach Modern Times and I NEVER built nukes in C3C (I made this experience back in Civ2)...
Not that I'm too peaceful - it's the pollution that hurts my ecowarrior's heart

 

[sirdanilot]

Well, but you probably do know the cost and effect of an icbm

The only danger is that FREE nukes us, really. When the other teams reach sattelites, we've probably won already. But then there is still GONG, and they might just be able to keep up with us. SABER won't keep up with us and babe... well they are probably allied with Gong so them too.

We could sign a treaty with all the other teams to declare immediate WAR! on the one who builds the manhattan project.

Ah I can't wait untill the modern age

 

[Paul#42]

The only danger is that FREE nukes us, really. When the other teams reach sattelites, we've probably won already. But then there is still GONG, and they might just be able to keep up with us. SABER won't keep up with us and babe... well they are probably allied with Gong so them too.

I'm impressed by your ability to foretell the future...

I still think that a well prepared invasion with some 50 cavs (or Sipahi ) is still a threat even for an Industrial Age civ...

Ah I can't wait untill the modern age

Well I can, most fun of the game for me is Middle Ages and Industrial Times. One-on-one, swords and shields - that's what real life is about

But I'm really looking forward to hand over the game to you modern warfare guys then...

edit: How reliable are those SDI-Defense and stuff alike? Do they really protect or do they just get some of the launched missiles?
Can you still block them by using bombers? Oh, I seem to recall bombers only stayed in the air during the interturn back in good ol' Civ2, right?
I guess I have to read some articles of the war academy on this...

 

[General_W]

SDI is highly effective in C3C - 75% chance to intercept ICBMs.
Since an ICBM costs 500 shilelds, that effectivly makes an ICMB strike 2,000 shields

I forget that we only need 5 SAM sites to be able to build the StatMissle Defense Small Wonder... we could easily have that before anyone even gets ICBMs.

Not sure if the 75% applies to tactical nukes?

 

[cubsfan6506]

See below.

 

[cubsfan6506]

I ran some tests sam's can't block nukes, and nukes can't destroy other nukes. ALso tac nukes can't reach from one landmass to another.

 

[General_W]

ALso tac nukes can't reach from one landmass to another.

Good to know... but a Nuke Sub can carry Tac Nukes... still, that seems like a lot of effort.

 

[cubsfan6506]

Yeah ive never used nuk subs as nuke transports.

 

[sirdanilot]

Tactical nukes are less expensive than icbms but you have to load them on those nuclear subs and then actually sail to our continent. And I think that if you add those subs they become more expensive. I would say it's rather unlikely. Also, they could never hit our most inland cities.

An earlier invasion with cav or sipahi seems plausible to me.

We must also know what we are going to do if we don't get the resources you need for the spacerace... now that would be really bad.

 

[cubsfan6506]

If we don't get them nobody does.