Good solution for limiting city-building on Earth maps

Flamegrape

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(I had posted this in a thread discussing the 512 city limit. I thought this deserved a new thread because I don't think anybody was reading that thread anymore.)

One of the biggest problems for people creating scenarios on Earth maps is the AI building cities everywhere. Unless some limitations are put in place, the AI will build dozens of useless cities in Siberia, Greenland, the Sahara desert, and other useless places. This usually causes the game to slow down tremendously.

Here is a good solution. But you'll have to say goodbye to using the Marsh terrain. On the other hand, if you weren't eagerly awaiting the use of it in Conquests, you won't miss it.

Download the CitySites.zip attached to this post. Extract the CitySites folder from the zip archive and place it in the Conquests/Scenarios folder. Run the Conquest map editor (Civ3Edit) and load your favorite Earth map. (Or import the map. Whatever you want.) In the Scenario Properties, add "CitySites" to the list of Scenario Search Folders (e.g. "YourScenarioName;CitySites"). In the rules editor, rename the Marsh terrain as "City Site". Change the terrain's tile values to Food: 3, Shield: 3, and Commerce: 3. Change all Terraform Bonuses to zero. Change the terrain's flags so that it allows cities, colonies, airfields, outposts, radar towers, and forts (leave the impassable flags unchecked). Make sure that Causes Disease is unchecked. Now make sure that all other terrains do NOT allow cities. Save the map as a new scenario file, quit the editor, run the editor again, load the new scenario. Start placing the City Site terrain tiles wherever you want cities. Voila! Your map now has a fixed number of cities that you can raise or lower as you choose.

There are only a few minor disadvantages to this solution. You can't use Marsh terrain anymore. All City Site tiles look like Grassland tiles. So that means that the locations for the cities on the banks of the Nile will look green instead of desert or plains. A City Site tile on a coast might change the shape of it's coastline. Cities that were usually placed on a Hills tile will now look like it's on a flat Grassland tile. And, most importantly, you can't build cities anywhere you wish. This last point is either good or bad, depending on the way you look at it.

I think that the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. You can completely control where cities can be built and limit the number that can exist on your map. You can precisely focus the placement of bonus resources to maximize the use of City Site tile locations. You can change the Food, Shield, and Commerce values for City Site tiles to suit your scenario's style. In the editor and while playing the game, you'll be able to plainly see all City Site tiles designated with a small crosshair-circle that is similar to the start location graphic seen in the editor.

I've just started experimenting with this solution. But I wanted to share my ideas as soon as possible.
:cool:
 
Though with Flamegrape's idea you can finally force the AI to build cities in strategic points. When I was playing on earth maps, AI never built a city on Suez or Panama canal. Interisting idea, though may be boring to have cities in the same, pre-set places.
 
Originally posted by mrtn
Hm, seems kinda complicated. One ancient idea is to not allow cities in tundra and desert. This gets rid of the Sibiria syndrome.
It's not all that complicated. It's really quite simple. You replace the Marsh terrain graphics with the graphics that I provided in the file attachment. Then change the characteristics of the Marsh terrain to a "City Site" terrain. Finally, don't allow cities in ANY terrain except City Site (Marsh) terrain.

Since people like to see screen shots:


Wherever there is a blue circle, the player or the AI can build a city there. In theory, once all of the available places outside an AI's civilization borders have been settled, the AI might start building cities at vacant sites within it's own borders.

Originally posted by embryodead
Though with Flamegrape's idea you can finally force the AI to build cities in strategic points. When I was playing on earth maps, AI never built a city on Suez or Panama canal. Interisting idea, though may be boring to have cities in the same, pre-set places.
Yes, that's the basic point of this rule modification. The AI will only build cities at specific locations. You can also cut down on the number of bonus resources that you place and only focus on placing them near your City Site tiles.

But I agree that it might get "boring to have cities in the same, pre-set places." But it beats having the computer waste time accounting for dozens of cities in the arctic, Siberia, the Sahara, the Gobi Desert, or the jungles of Africa and South America. In the map that I'm working on right now, I've placed City Site tiles only near the coasts of Africa and South America with only a handful of City Site tiles within the respective interiors of those continents. Also, I've only placed a few City Site tiles in the non-tundra regions of Russia and Canada.

But aside from Earth maps, this modification might be useful in other scenarios. For example, all players could have a City Site tile at the start and only one or two other City Sites that they could fight for control. Include Victory locations and such a game could be quite interesting.
 
I've been working on my own version of Marla's Earth map. Using this method of designating City Site terrains, I've been able to limit the number of cities to about 450. I'm very, very satisfied with the results.
 
ingenius! I am experimenting this by replacing floodplain tiles instead. I like the marsh tile.
 
Originally posted by ArmPilot
How long does it take to actually place all the city site tiles? Neat idea but i'm too lazy.

depends how big your map is and how you want to place your cities. For an accurate map of the earth i'm making, i'm only gonna put cities corresponding to real city locations as well as strategic locations. I'm also gonna consider the city radius and not to have overlap wherever possible.
 
Originally posted by Flamegrape
I've been working on my own version of Marla's Earth map. Using this method of designating City Site terrains, I've been able to limit the number of cities to about 450. I'm very, very satisfied with the results.

Could you please relesae this to the rest of us?
 
I have a crazy idea here. :crazyeye: For scenarios, how about pre-placing all cities, then removing from settlers the "build city" ability? Will this work?
 
Originally posted by Dann
I have a crazy idea here. :crazyeye: For scenarios, how about pre-placing all cities, then removing from settlers the "build city" ability? Will this work?

It should -- why not just remove the settlers from play? (I know somewhere in the documentation it says that not having settlers will crash the game but AFAIK having cities obviates this.)

-Oz
 
Great idea!
I'm just afraid that even with this, my ol' computer couldn't handle a map over 150/150; as the middle ages conquests scenario is unbearably slow.
 
Did you do this on a conquests world map? i have one thats like 350x300 somthing buts it takes so much time between rurns it hard to play. All my other world maps are for ptw but i want a smaller c3c bot not to small.
 
why not just remove the settlers from play?

No because you want some way to transfer population between cities. Like from a size 12 hospital-less city to a size 2 city you recently conquered. ;)
 
Originally posted by Dann


No because you want some way to transfer population between cities. Like from a size 12 hospital-less city to a size 2 city you recently conquered. ;)

Ah! -- But that I don't think the AI will do ...

-Oz
 
Originally posted by ozymandias

Ah! -- But that I don't think the AI will do ...
-Oz

It won't? :eek:

*Shouts for all to hear:*
There goes another idea down the drain... :(

*Cackles to self:*
Exploit!...Exploit!...Hehehe... :D
 
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