1. Firaxis celebrates the "Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month", and offers a give-away of a Civ6 anthology copy (5 in total)! For all the details, please check the thread here. .
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Old World has finally been released on GOG and Steam, besides also being available in the Epic store . Come to our Old World forum and discuss with us!
    Dismiss Notice

[BERT] Goofy Play by AI Lena Ebner

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by vorlon_mi, Apr 22, 2022.

  1. vorlon_mi

    vorlon_mi Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chelsea, MI
    Noticed this in my recent game as Slavic Federation.

    First, really bad city placement. The access to the ocean is blocked by the ice!

    Second, I'm not sure if this is a bug, or amazingly foolish play.
    INTEGR seems to have completed all the key research for a Transcendence victory, but look at her Affinity score. How is it possible to complete all that research while only accumulating 7 affinity score? And if she really achieved 14 Purity points, why is she not launching a satellite and pursuing Promised Land?
     

    Attached Files:

    Tiberiu likes this.
  2. Tiberiu

    Tiberiu Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    430
    Location:
    Bucharest
    Yes, really bad city placement. Not a bug, just bad AI. AI is really bad in this game, even worse than the game before it which is civ 5. Civ be has more complexity and AI is unable to handle it. You would be tempted to think that something as simple as settling a city would have been easy to code. Just make sure surrounding tiles have certain values, that there is no ice blocking if there is a coastal city, etc.

    The question about key research for Trancendence and 7 affinity score is explained by the fact that these key techs don't really give that much affinity. Assuming no Might virtue or Ansible, only Swarm Intelligence gives 20 affinity, the rest give 7. So it's 34 affinity points. The discovery of the techs can be explained by them trying to gain advantages that are unrelated to Transcendence victory.

    A way to try to make sense of what's happening in Lena's mind is that she's not interested in winning by Affinity victories and has decided for some reason for Contact or Domination.

    We could make hundreds of examples. In a game I am playing now an AI explorer just walked over a progenitor ruin one turn earlier than I could do it, but then it moved away next turn instead of excavating the ruin. It's certain that they had a module, it was very early turns and I saw the explorer almost from the start. There might be a conflict in that AI is also trying to explore searching for pods. But nothing can justify simply ignoring a Progenitor ruin. Or how AI likes to attack stronger units with their Air units even if they will die in the process.
     
    vorlon_mi likes this.
  3. vorlon_mi

    vorlon_mi Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chelsea, MI
    I finished this game last night. Learned a few things that I will need to take forward.

    First, I had a challenge to finish the game, as noted in this thread https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/late-game-crash-turn-337.676528/ My victory was still ~18 turns away on turn 336, when the game crashed. Lately I have been not hurrying to victory, since the scoring system gives no bonus for finishing quickly. I wanted this game (as Kozlov) to score higher than my last game with him.

    Recovery Plans: I remembered making a conscious decision to pursue some Supremacy techs on the way to finishing the 3 required techs for a Harmony victory. Clearly, to avoid the crash at turn 336, I would need to finish my Mind Flower sooner so that it could connect before turn 336. I tried going back to a save from turn ~280, but the tech decisions were still baked in at that point. I went all the way back to a save from turn 215 or so, where I could beeline to the required Harmony techs.

    Accelerating City Improvements: Elsewhere in the strategy forum, I had read that the improvements need to be finished *before* the Mind Flower is completed. I can confirm that. I can also confirm that a Mind Stem that finishes *on the same turn* as the Mind Flower doesn't help. By playing to beeline the Harmony techs, I started the Mind Flower earlier and it finished building just before turn 300. It required 36 turns to connect, so I was sweating whether the crash would still occur.

    AI Changes: In the previous attempt (that crashed on turn 336), the objectors had been PAC (my immediate neighbor to the north, on the same land mass) and INTEGR (on the other big land mass). This time, as I started the Mind Flower, the objectors were PAC and ARC. That was good news, in a way, because ARC was somewhat weaker at that point. Fielding was still pursuing a Contact victory, making significant progress on Decode Signal at that point. She would go on to start building the Beacon.
    ARC had a fast start, wiping out Polystralia with her navy. ARC was located in the southern hemisphere, with a clear ocean path to Polystralia's cities. She overextended herself attacking NSA (neighbor to the west, accessible through a southern ocean passage. Where before PAU had been poaching a few INTEGR cities and keeping Lena in check, this time through INTEGR built up an army. Took over ARC's conquests in the former Polystralia (far to the east of INTEGR) and later swept down to take out NSA in the south.

    AI Victories -- Human Saved by Stupidity: As I worked to build my Mind Flower as quickly as I could, two AI nearly beat me to the finish line.

    PAC Supremacy: Daoming had been steadfastly building her affinity level and her army. Lots of skirmishes with Africa and INTEGR in the northern ocean passages, but also settling a bunch of cities. She gets to affinity 15, builds the gate, and ... puts it in the water. I made this mistake in a previous attempt with Supremacy using NSA; all land units are embarked when they go through, so their strength is reduced. When she declared on me (as my Mind Flower waited for connection), I took a while to get troops and planes into position to attack the gate. She pushed through ~300 points worth of troops before I could mount a serious threat. Lesson 1 in complacency by the human player.

    INTEGR Harmony: As I noted in the first post, Lena had teched all the way to level 14 in Purity, while seeming to have a change of heart to pursue Harmony. She had amassed quite an empire with multiple cities and lots of land. She made it to level 15 level in Harmony and built her Mind Flower in a size 23 city that was NOT her capital. A bit too late; she finished her Mind Flower while mine still had 10 turns to go before connecting. According to the victory log, her MF would have needed the whole 40 turns to connect. Did not appear to have built any accelerating buildings in time.
    I like looking at the "replays" in the game main menu, just to see how I did compared with the other AI. I was out-teching and out-producing PAC, but INTEGR crushed me in score, tech, productivity, even military might. Lesson 2 in complacency by the human player... I should have intervened to slow her progress. When the AI gets a good start, on another land mass, they have the potential to run away. Her empire was strong enough to support two victory conditions at nearly the same time -- like mine have been in previous games.
     
  4. legalizefreedom

    legalizefreedom Inefficiency Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    Texas
    After the initial crash, did it crash in the same spot again upon loading the latest autosave? I don't remember the last time BERT crashed on me, but it was certainly isolated. I would venture to guess your computer ran out of memory or something along those lines. Playing for hours straight at a time possibly. I wouldn't bet it would happen again in the same place after a restart, but anything is possible I suppose.

    I've generally settled on playing on Soyez difficulty to keep the game from being a beeline race.
     
  5. vorlon_mi

    vorlon_mi Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,090
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chelsea, MI
    For this save, yes, it crashed on the same turn. All of them -- autosave, quicksave, and even a conventional save made just before clicking "Next Turn" all crashed with the same exception dialog box. I agree, that it doesn't happen often.

    Soyuz is providing the right amount of competition for me, to make it fun. If I have an achievement to go for, I might consider stepping back to Gemini, just to make sure that I get the achievement.
     
  6. legalizefreedom

    legalizefreedom Inefficiency Expert

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    657
    Location:
    Texas
    That has happened to me before, but maybe only once or twice. I figured it was some magic order of operations that "does not compute!" Seems like I was able to get out of it by going back a couple of turns and just doing different things than I did the first time.

    Yeah, I'm all about taking in the experience. I don't like AIs too focused on the end because I don't want to be. I'm a pretty efficient player after all these years even when I'm not trying to be, so Soyuz is usually a balance between not rushing and not dragging on for me.
     
    vorlon_mi likes this.

Share This Page