Google to do mass takedown of Danish music videos from YouTube

[Angst]

https://www.koda.dk/about-us/press-release-google-removes-all-danish-music-from-youtube

Spoiler Google removes all Danish music from YouTube :

While the negotiations on a new joint Nordic agreement are in full swing, Google have chosen to leverage their total dominance in the market in the strongest way possible. On the evening of Thursday 30 July, Google announced that they will soon remove all Danish music content on YouTube.


Under the auspices of the Nordic alliance of collecting societies, Polaris, negotiations on a joint Nordic agreement on the use of music on YouTube are currently in full swing. The agreement will replace the local agreements of the Norwegian, Finnish and Danish composers and songwriters’ societies, combining them in a single, joint agreement with Google. In the case of Koda, the national agreement for Denmark expired in April, after which it was temporarily extended – as is standard practice in the industry while negotiating a new agreement.

Now, however, Google have issued a new demand: if the agreement is to be temporarily extended, Koda must agree to reduce the payment provided to composers and songwriters for YouTube’s use of music by almost 70% – despite the fact that YouTube’s use of music has increased significantly since Koda entered into its last agreement with Google.

Of course, Koda cannot accept these terms, and Google have now unilaterally decided that Koda’s members cannot have their content shown on YouTube and that their fans and users on YouTube will be unable to listen to Koda members’ music until a new agreement is in place.

Although the parties involved in the negotiations on the new joint agreement are by no means in concord yet, progress has been made in recent weeks, and Koda is puzzled by the extremely aggressive approach taken by Google in the negotiations this time.

Koda’s media director, Kaare Struve, says:
‘Google have always taken an “our way or the highway” approach, but even for Google, this is a low point. Of course, Google know that they can create enormous frustration among our members by denying them access to YouTube – and among the many Danes who use YouTube every day. We can only suppose that by doing so, YouTube hope to be able to push through an agreement, one where they alone dictate all terms’.

Ever since the first agreement was signed in 2013, the level of payments received from YouTube has been significantly lower than the level of payment agreed to by subscription-based services.

Koda’s CEO, Gorm Arildsen, says:
‘It is no secret that our members have been very dissatisfied with the level of payment received for the use of their music on YouTube for many years now. And it’s no secret that we at Koda have actively advocated putting an end to the tech giants’ free-ride approach and underpayment for artistic content in connection with the EU’s new Copyright Directive. The fact that Google now demands that the payments due from them should be reduced by almost 70% in connection with a temporary contract extension seems quite bizarre’.

Media contact
Head of Communications Eva Hein / eh@koda.dk / (+45) 61893233

Some background of what's going on here.

Yes, the article is from the viewpoint of Koda, but I used it because it's a good summary of what's happening.

Koda is basically the most prominent musicians' union/organization in Denmark. I'm part of the sphere of musicians in Denmark and most people use it. The agreements being prepared between Google and the Nordic countries is an extension of Koda as a major Danish representative. However, Google as an international organization can technically make demands as they see fit. Until the new international agreement is set they basically went "all of your musicians are going to get a 70% paycut" and Koda went "wat no, musicians are already paid pebbles" and then Google went and mass yeeted videos from YouTube. There are still videos available in clusters around YouTube (many illegally) but I did a quick search and at least here from Denmark the primary channels connected to Koda are unavailable here. Some videos are still up, but I don't know which musician is connected to which company or union.

Spoiler bonus info :

Foreigners don't always know this, but despite having a high de facto minimum wage in Denmark, we don't actually have one set by law. Rather, the employers periodically meet with unions and agree on a set base wage "overenskomst" that then become the standard for a period, and if the employers don't adhere to the wage, they can get into legal trouble. Google basically can't though, because = international

Google's move is bluntly stated not popular in Denmark, although a subset of right wingers are getting uppity over how this screws over the unions, even if it hurts the whole Danish music industry. Who cares about the concrete consequences for a whole industry when it can serve an international tech giant.

As far as I can tell, the videos are getting back up as soon as the new joint agreement between the Nordics and Google is set, but this is Google trying to blackmail to get leverage towards a better deal, as they are intentionally costing Koda time and money for as long as Koda is negotiating. Extending these deals as they are being agreed upon is an industry standard, but Google don't care, because they are so large they can just up and choose exploit this without being messed with.

 

[Kyriakos]

Reminds me of another nordic, Lars, forcing that whole Metallica-Napster fiasco ^_^
Google is too powerful at any rate. People should have used more search-engines back in the day...

 

[Takhisis]

If they touch my caramelldansen vids I'm getting mad.

However, Google as an international organization can technically make demands as they see fit.

Are they still subject to Danish law, being a company that provides services in Denmark?

 

[Angst]

If they touch my caramelldansen vids I'm getting mad.

Swedish band afaik.

Are they still subject to Danish law, being a company that provides services in Denmark?

Well yes. De jure. But international corps can often supercede the laws of Western countries for their own interests, without the national system being able to do anything about it in practice. Sometimes bribes are involved.

 

[Hygro]

To be clear, the issue is that Danish royalties law is demanding that artists get paid a certain amount of the revenue and it's about 3x higher than what youtube will pay?

 

[EnglishEdward]

IIf the music is recent, I support the Danes

 

[uppi]

To be clear, the issue is that Danish royalties law is demanding that artists get paid a certain amount of the revenue and it's about 3x higher than what youtube will pay?

No. Youtube needs a license to play the music and could not get an agreement with the organization which manages the licensing of almost all Danish music. So YouTube is required by law to remove it.

Of course, the licensing organization claims that the offer was unacceptable and YouTube will claim that their demands were too high to generate enough profit. I did not find any neutral source on the contract that was proposed, so I reserve my judgement on how reasonable the offers were.

It would be a simple licensing issue if it was a real market with multiple relevant players.

 

[Moriarte]

Are they still subject to Danish law, being a company that provides services in Denmark?

They’re not subject to anything, especially so after reaching 1 trillion in market cap. Deep enough pockets to buy any positive outcome they like.

Tell you another somewhat related story I overheard. The latest space x crew dragon landing was broadcasted by space x and more than a few space enthusiast yt channels. Later that day a polish television network shows 2-minute cut from the landing, then proceeds to Strike every video of that landing in the world with copyright claim, including the original space x video, because TV networks are granted that option by yt. Couple of days and a small user revolution later yt resolved the situation by manually removing these claims. But the damage is done, you know..

It’s been happening in the past too: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...im-took-nasas-launch-video-down-this-weekend/

 

[Hygro]

No. Youtube needs a license to play the music and could not get an agreement with the organization which manages the licensing of almost all Danish music. So YouTube is required by law to remove it.

Of course, the licensing organization claims that the offer was unacceptable and YouTube will claim that their demands were too high to generate enough profit. I did not find any neutral source on the contract that was proposed, so I reserve my judgement on how reasonable the offers were.

It would be a simple licensing issue if it was a real market with multiple relevant players.

So yes except instead of law, an inability to reach a contract with a Danish union that deals in almost all of Danish music?

 

[Angst]

To be clear, the issue is that Danish royalties law is demanding that artists get paid a certain amount of the revenue and it's about 3x higher than what youtube will pay?

No, it's the opposite. YouTube and the organization already had an agreement. When it expired, Google demanded a 70% cut.

Koda was perfectly willing to keep the agreement going until a new agreement was reached, which is the industry standard. Google wasn't.

 

[Hygro]

70% cut is 3x higher

Was Koda getting a higher rate than others like the RIAA or whatever we do over here? (a lot of our royalty rules come from law, not contract, it's weird)

 

[Angst]

70% cut is 3x higher

Was Koda getting a higher rate than others like the RIAA or whatever we do over here? (a lot of our royalty rules come from law, not contract, it's weird)

The point was that they had an agreement, then Google made the new demand (Koda didn't) as an ultimatum, and Koda declined as they were still working on a common Nordic agreement. You phrased it as if Koda demanded a pay raise. Google was the active party here, and then seeing that Koda didn't want to change what they had already agreed on, took down the videos.

And it may be higher, maybe not. If it was a problem it could have been solved during the discussions Koda was already working on with the rest of the Nordics.

 

[EnglishEdward]

It is only when the amazons, facebooks and googles are confronted with
meaningful competition for customers from competitors that they will behave.

Denmark (or perhaps more appropriately the EU) needs to take a
leaf out of the PRC's book and develop its own hosting companies.

 

[Angst]

It is only when the amazons, facebooks and googles are confronted with
meaningful competition for customers from competitors that they will behave.

Denmark (or perhaps more appropriately the EU) needs to take a
leaf out of the PRC's book and develop its own hosting companies.

There are often smaller companies that try to take on giants, but it often fails. I do think that state funding a startup that then works independently (like, I don't want a governmental hosting service beyond things that are basically library extensions) because as we have seen with Epic, competition at this scale usually only works out with a massive investment. It's baffling how awfully structured and run YouTube is and one would think that the many startup companies that offer better, more flexible services would force some change. But nope.