GOP Announces Convention Theme “We Built This”

[Ziggy Stardust]

What are the humble beginnings of presidents supposed to prove?

 

[LightSpectra]

What I want to know is why it's objectionable for a union to prevent somebody from working, but acceptable for an employer to do so. Seems like a double standard to me.

You're presenting all sorts of potential situations as a this-but-not-that dichotomy. Sometimes in a labor dispute, the employer is right and the workers' requests are unreasonable or untenable. Sometimes, the union is right and a labor boycott is justified until conditions have improved. So the individual worker can be justly or unjustly deprived work by either a union or an employer. It really needs to be inspected on a case-by-case basis.

This is partially why I'm an antifederalist. Unions are almost always in the right on a grassroots scale. When you have nation-wide labor unions organizing a legally-binding boycott, their objections might not be totally applicable to each individual worker. And so it becomes a byzantine mess where the union is a corporation in its own right.

 

[Quackers]

Perhaps I'm getting a distorted view because I don't follow US politics on anything like a day-to-day basis, but it seems like the Republicans are more becoming more and more openly the party of the ruling class. Even the all-in-it-together rhetoric of the "War on Terror" years seems to be sloughing away in favour of open contempt for the majority of the population. The Democrats, while just as deeply, thoroughly and irredeemably bound to the ruling class as their opponents, at least seem to go to some effort to hide it.

Aren't politicians by definition the ruling class?
Ergo, whats the matter?

 

[bhsup]

Jimmy Carter was pretty poor wasn't he? LBJ was also poor, but his daddy was a politician I think.

I admit I'll have to check up on Carter. I thought his family was fairly successful but I could be wrong.

What are the humble beginnings of presidents supposed to prove?

That class is meaningless in America. It doesn't matter where you come from, what your origins are, you can accomplish anything. Including going from child of a dirt poor farmer to President of the USA.

Jingoism mode...ACTIVATED!


Link to video.


Link to video.

 

[Ailedhoo]

That class is meaningless in America. It doesn't matter where you come from, what your origins are, you can accomplish anything. Including going from child of a dirt poor farmer to President of the USA.

A intresting statement. It is not of stone foundation though. America enjoys less social mobility then their peers in Canada and Western Europe. The mobility gap has increased. The reality of the situration is critical in consideration.

 

[Crezth]

A intresting statement. It is not of stone foundation though. America enjoys less social mobility then their peers in Canada and Western Europe. The mobility gap has increased. The reality of the situration is critical in consideration.

No, dude, didn't you hear him? Class is meaningless in America. We have transcended the historical dialectic. USA #1.

 

[peter grimes]

Just more proof that unions keep people down. What if a local technician didn't want to be in the union? Poor bastard won't be able to live because the union won't let him work.

Yeah, that's not how it works at all. Now we're on my turf

Different cities have different ratios of union to non-union houses. I'm not aware of any city that is completely union. There is always non-union work to be had, but it's nearly always the less-desirable jobs. The jobs people want are at the union venues. Why? Better work rules, better wages, higher level of professionalism. This holds true almost always.

The fact of the matter is that when it comes to union work in theatrical, film television, and variety entertainment industry the standard of living is much higher among union employees than among non-union one. Getting into IATSE is not difficult - it varies with the local. In mine, if you organize in all you need to do is make a $2000 down-payment to seed your pension, and then continue to earn at least $37,500 per year to qualify for full pension credits and health coverage for you and your entire family. In New York City $37,500 is not much above poverty level. The bar to entry here is low.

So unless 321 runs their affairs radically different, it's safe to say you're not talking out of your mouth here.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Where would any modern politician be if he didn't kowtow to the rich and powerful? Take Dr. Ron Paul, for instance.

 

[Traitorfish]

You're presenting all sorts of potential situations as a this-but-not-that dichotomy. Sometimes in a labor dispute, the employer is right and the workers' requests are unreasonable or untenable. Sometimes, the union is right and a labor boycott is justified until conditions have improved. So the individual worker can be justly or unjustly deprived work by either a union or an employer. It really needs to be inspected on a case-by-case basis.

I'm talking in a much more general sense. If it's wrong for a union to prevent somebody from making a living by preventing them from accepting a job, then why should employers be able to be able to prevent them from making a living by refusing to employ them? Either the world owes you a job, or it doesn't; can't have it both ways.

This is partially why I'm an antifederalist. Unions are almost always in the right on a grassroots scale. When you have nation-wide labor unions organizing a legally-binding boycott, their objections might not be totally applicable to each individual worker. And so it becomes a byzantine mess where the union is a corporation in its own right.

I don't entirely disagree, but that's a pretty sloppy use of the concept of "corporation". That's something that describes a particular organisation of capital, but even the most bureaucratic unions are pretty much by definition mediators between capital and labour. I'm more critical of bureaucratic unions than I think any other leftist here, but I don't think that any insight is gained by just lumping them in with the bosses. It's a more complex relationship than that.

Aren't politicians by definition the ruling class?
Ergo, whats the matter?

Nothing the matter, I'm just surprised that they're putting so little effort into pretending otherwise. At a point in history when critiques of ruling class practice are more mainstream than they've been in decades, and in which most right-wing parties are responding accordingly- the shallow corporatism of the "Big Society", for example- it seems almost pathological.

 

[mitsho]

Why does a convention need a theme? Is that something you usually do or are the Republicans just feeling creative?

I withhold judgement until I know what the Democratic Theme is (so can someone tell me? ). Oh, and I can't believe nobody posted that yet...


Link to video.

 

[Farm Boy]

I thought it was Happy Days are Here Again.

 

[Cutlass]

A terrible storm hit Detroit during the 1980 convention that nominated Reagan.

It's a good omen.

For a terrible presidential candidate?

 

[Traitorfish]

I withhold judgement until I know what the Democratic Theme is (so can someone tell me? ).

Or so I've gathered from some of our conservative co-posters.

 

[civver_764]

I'm sold.

 

[Farm Boy]

The Gip looks pretty good in comparison to the Republicans today. Given his emphases he was almost as much a (cold)wartime president as much as anything.

 

[metatron]

[stuff about politicians' humble beginnings]

*sigh*

If you say so.

Spoiler :

"Fischer."
"Hi, you don't know me, but..."
"What the..."
"Just listen. I'm calling you to inform you that you have done this social mobility thing all wrong.
Being born as the son of butcher was a good start, i admit, but you were not supposed to drop out of high school, quit your apprenticeship as a photographer, work as a clerk at a leftist book store and as a cab driver while you were beating up cops as a hobby. You were not supposed to work as an automobile worker either. And you were definitly not supposed to try to organise the workers at that plant for the upcoming revolution, especially so since they have allready been organised for some time. Some rather long time actually.
You were especially not supposed to loan your rusty car to a bunch of left wing terrorists who would use it to transport weapons they had stolen from a US army base.
And you sure as hell were not supposed to opt for being sworn in as a MP wearing sneakers.
You becoming Vice Chancellor of the Republic was no good demonstration of social mobility at all!"
"What the heck was i supposed to do?"
"You were supposed to wear a suit and get a law degree, like any upwardly mobile, and later trip over cheating on your wife during your political carreer!"
"Which of my four wifes?"
"I wouldn't know."
"Son, where did you get this idea?"
"An American told me on the internet."

 

[Formaldehyde]

Why does a convention need a theme? Is that something you usually do or are the Republicans just feeling creative?

Don't all high school proms have themes?

I withhold judgement until I know what the Democratic Theme is (so can someone tell me? ). Oh, and I can't believe nobody posted that yet...

Enchantment under the sea?

And Jefferson Starship has been referred to at least twice already.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So, vrwc, using your logic, I should buy a lottery ticket since anyone can win the lottery.

You know what, I don't think I'll take that advice

 

[Traitorfish]

What baffles me about the "social mobility, ergo classlessness" line of thinking is that social mobility specifically describes mobility across social class. If there was no class, there would be no social mobility, because everyone would be born equal and stay that way. It's basically a self-invalidating argument.

 

[Leoreth]

I think the argument is more "social mobility, ergo we don't care about class".