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Gorgo is S Tier Now

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by MarigoldRan, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Their UU is effectively a resourceless, cheap swordsmen.

    Swordsmen UU's aren't that good anymore because of the resource cost. But spearmen UU cost no resource and are cheap as hell.

    Also, Acropolis works really well with Macchu Picchu.
     
  2. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    The Hoplite might be ok, but it's still an anti-cav unit. And while there are more decent anti-cav UUs like the Impi and the Carolean, they will all at some point need to be upgraded and then they just stink. Anti-cav has no defense against ranged attacks and most of your battles are going to be around cities where they just pale next to melee and heavy cavalry. Even in their intended role, fighting vs cavalry, they stink because they are just too slow and cavalry isn't bothered by zone of control. Having no resource cost is their only plus and that's pretty darn horrible.
     
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  3. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    But you can mass them. Unlike swords or horses. And they get oligarchy bonuses.
     
  4. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    They still cost gold for maintenance, I rather build units that are actually useful on the battlefield.
     
  5. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    No they don't. With the -1 maintenance card, they cost 0 gold to maintain.
     
  6. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    Great, but you're not gonna conquer the world in the ancient era. They will need to be upgraded at some point, unless you build them to be cannon fodder.
     
  7. Kwami

    Kwami Warlord

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    There's also the opportunity cost of using the -1GPT maintenance card instead of another card. And, that discount works for all units, not just Hoplites. So, they cost maintenance.
     
  8. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    I really miss how in Civ5, most unique units would either have a unique promotion or start with extra promotions, that made them worthwhile even after upgrade.

    In civ6, if you don't happen to do war exactly in the narrow window where you're UU is usefull, they're essentially just wasted.
     
    679x, Deggial, Kjimmet and 4 others like this.
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Gorgo has always been the alternate civ I played, and have played her a lot. You just need to know the tricks of the trade.
    The hoplites are damn early, great for era points but you need two of them which is fine really. The just cannot leave each other’s side.
    So with Gorgo it is rush to bronze working then make a decision. If you have a close enemy then hoplites are great because they chew through a 25-30 wall with a Ram done early. Now you get chop value for spears you can get them extremely early. The secret is to make sure there are archers and scouts that can be shot at by the city walls, then the hoplites are left alone. They help your early city defence as well as benefitting from Oligarchy, shame a GG does not help them.
    Yes there are a lot of warriors around so you promote one of your pair to be anti melee and the other to be anti cav. The melee one does surprisingly well with the double support promo of the anti cav unit. The AI will happily attack you.
    Having Tomyris next door to you is never nice but keeping the hoplites in good rough works, just be defensive and let them come to you, with Tomyris it is the horse archers that are a pain but the hoplites eat horsemen.
    As time moves on, because they have taken cities they will normally have 2 promos each and while the promotion to halberds does not give much benefit the promo’s do really help.
    The really nice thing about them is the immersive side. 2-4 hoplites are useless by themselves but with archer support and the odd chariot they feel like an army and are a pleasure to play
    Now with pike and shot they do survive better and pushing them to anti tank early like the AI is rather OP.
    They are vulnerable and so playing more defensive and in rough does ruffle my tabletop pedigree but works.
    Other game you build one purely for era points and/or CS quest but Gorgo’s other values are good.
    I have found the culture gains are just not great beyond T50 but are great to push an early Oligarchy. And that is that extra +4. If you think a hoplite is useless vs a swordsman, look at the right promotion tree.
    One of the strongest things now is the envoys from theatres. CS are such a strong part of a game. Gorgo is great but certainly plays second fiddle to Pericles.
     
    Nefelia, Tyroq, Red_warning and 3 others like this.
  10. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    No, with Oligarchy the hoplite is useful for a very long time, especially given that you can just suicide them later given how cheap they are.

    Also, the Ai masses chariots now since they don't have the resources to build anything else.

    Gorgo is amazing. With the exception of the Inca, they're the only civ you can mass 40 strength units early. With every other civ you can maybe build 4 before they obsolete thx to resource costs.
     
  11. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Chieftain

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    I thought Gorgo was always S tier. And I usually only ever build one hoplite for the era score (and none before R&f). Even if she didn't have a UU, (like if was just removed); I think the remaining abilities still make her A tier, at least.
     
  12. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    I agree. They were A tier before, but now with the resource issue I believe they're S as their UU is one of the best units in the classical era since it can be massed.
     
  13. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    I wasn't saying Gorgo is weak but yeah, it's not the UU.
     
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  14. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    What do you mean "now"?
     
    acluewithout and comatosedragon like this.
  15. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    Compared to Nubia's archers or warcarts? I would even take Egypt's chariots over them.
     
  16. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    Ok, Nubian archers are better. Forgot about them. But Gorgo's econ bonuses are much much better. Egyptian chariots are too expensive.

    The change is that in GS you can't mass swordsmen easily anymore so that's a big indirect buff to Hoplites.
     
  17. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Warlord

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    My point is not that the Hoplite stinks but their window of opportunity is very limited. And after that you're stuck with a lackluster upgrade line. I rather build stuff that stays useful.
     
  18. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

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    But Hoplites don't stink. The fact that you can mass them makes them better than any other classical era unit out there, with the exception of a few.
     
  19. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Two units that really speed up taking 2-3 early cities is not a big ask to me.j
     
  20. Tiger Genocide

    Tiger Genocide Chieftain

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    Hmm Marigold when I get home I will start a new game as Gorgo. I actually have not played her since vanilla so it would be good to see what synergy I can come up with. I wonder if I grab the pantheon God of the forge, if I can use that to swallow a couple of civs quickly like I can with Ottomans.

    That window might be small but in on certain maps like pangea you can often times swallow two neighbors back to back if you have a good sized army big enough to start detachment of a few units off the main attack force and send them to the next victim.

    Production is always the issue. On immortal if I get a bad production start and don't pick that pantheon, I usually have to pause warmongering and develop the cities first which kinda stinks sometimes...

    Some civs like ottomans are kinda immune to these kinds of restrictions.

    Some people like to chop their armies out and while that works if you have enough forests, I personally prefer not to chop 3 production woods only the low 2 ones and I strongly prefer lumber mills. I like having high production for tanks later.
     

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