Gorgo is S Tier Now

MarigoldRan

WARLORD
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Their UU is effectively a resourceless, cheap swordsmen.

Swordsmen UU's aren't that good anymore because of the resource cost. But spearmen UU cost no resource and are cheap as hell.

Also, Acropolis works really well with Macchu Picchu.
 
The Hoplite might be ok, but it's still an anti-cav unit. And while there are more decent anti-cav UUs like the Impi and the Carolean, they will all at some point need to be upgraded and then they just stink. Anti-cav has no defense against ranged attacks and most of your battles are going to be around cities where they just pale next to melee and heavy cavalry. Even in their intended role, fighting vs cavalry, they stink because they are just too slow and cavalry isn't bothered by zone of control. Having no resource cost is their only plus and that's pretty darn horrible.
 
They still cost gold for maintenance, I rather build units that are actually useful on the battlefield.
 
No they don't. With the -1 maintenance card, they cost 0 gold to maintain.

Great, but you're not gonna conquer the world in the ancient era. They will need to be upgraded at some point, unless you build them to be cannon fodder.
 
There's also the opportunity cost of using the -1GPT maintenance card instead of another card. And, that discount works for all units, not just Hoplites. So, they cost maintenance.
 
The Hoplite might be ok, but it's still an anti-cav unit. And while there are more decent anti-cav UUs like the Impi and the Carolean, they will all at some point need to be upgraded and then they just stink.
I really miss how in Civ5, most unique units would either have a unique promotion or start with extra promotions, that made them worthwhile even after upgrade.

In civ6, if you don't happen to do war exactly in the narrow window where you're UU is usefull, they're essentially just wasted.
 
Gorgo has always been the alternate civ I played, and have played her a lot. You just need to know the tricks of the trade.
The hoplites are damn early, great for era points but you need two of them which is fine really. The just cannot leave each other’s side.
So with Gorgo it is rush to bronze working then make a decision. If you have a close enemy then hoplites are great because they chew through a 25-30 wall with a Ram done early. Now you get chop value for spears you can get them extremely early. The secret is to make sure there are archers and scouts that can be shot at by the city walls, then the hoplites are left alone. They help your early city defence as well as benefitting from Oligarchy, shame a GG does not help them.
Yes there are a lot of warriors around so you promote one of your pair to be anti melee and the other to be anti cav. The melee one does surprisingly well with the double support promo of the anti cav unit. The AI will happily attack you.
Having Tomyris next door to you is never nice but keeping the hoplites in good rough works, just be defensive and let them come to you, with Tomyris it is the horse archers that are a pain but the hoplites eat horsemen.
As time moves on, because they have taken cities they will normally have 2 promos each and while the promotion to halberds does not give much benefit the promo’s do really help.
The really nice thing about them is the immersive side. 2-4 hoplites are useless by themselves but with archer support and the odd chariot they feel like an army and are a pleasure to play
Now with pike and shot they do survive better and pushing them to anti tank early like the AI is rather OP.
They are vulnerable and so playing more defensive and in rough does ruffle my tabletop pedigree but works.
Other game you build one purely for era points and/or CS quest but Gorgo’s other values are good.
I have found the culture gains are just not great beyond T50 but are great to push an early Oligarchy. And that is that extra +4. If you think a hoplite is useless vs a swordsman, look at the right promotion tree.
One of the strongest things now is the envoys from theatres. CS are such a strong part of a game. Gorgo is great but certainly plays second fiddle to Pericles.
 
No, with Oligarchy the hoplite is useful for a very long time, especially given that you can just suicide them later given how cheap they are.

Also, the Ai masses chariots now since they don't have the resources to build anything else.

Gorgo is amazing. With the exception of the Inca, they're the only civ you can mass 40 strength units early. With every other civ you can maybe build 4 before they obsolete thx to resource costs.
 
I thought Gorgo was always S tier. And I usually only ever build one hoplite for the era score (and none before R&f). Even if she didn't have a UU, (like if was just removed); I think the remaining abilities still make her A tier, at least.
 
I agree. They were A tier before, but now with the resource issue I believe they're S as their UU is one of the best units in the classical era since it can be massed.
 
I thought Gorgo was always S tier. And I usually only ever build one hoplite for the era score (and none before R&f). Even if she didn't have a UU, (like if was just removed); I think the remaining abilities still make her A tier, at least.

I wasn't saying Gorgo is weak but yeah, it's not the UU.
 
I agree. They were A tier before, but now with the resource issue I believe they're S as their UU is one of the best units in the classical era since it can be massed.

Compared to Nubia's archers or warcarts? I would even take Egypt's chariots over them.
 
Ok, Nubian archers are better. Forgot about them. But Gorgo's econ bonuses are much much better. Egyptian chariots are too expensive.

The change is that in GS you can't mass swordsmen easily anymore so that's a big indirect buff to Hoplites.
 
My point is not that the Hoplite stinks but their window of opportunity is very limited. And after that you're stuck with a lackluster upgrade line. I rather build stuff that stays useful.
 
But Hoplites don't stink. The fact that you can mass them makes them better than any other classical era unit out there, with the exception of a few.
 
Hmm Marigold when I get home I will start a new game as Gorgo. I actually have not played her since vanilla so it would be good to see what synergy I can come up with. I wonder if I grab the pantheon God of the forge, if I can use that to swallow a couple of civs quickly like I can with Ottomans.

That window might be small but in on certain maps like pangea you can often times swallow two neighbors back to back if you have a good sized army big enough to start detachment of a few units off the main attack force and send them to the next victim.

Production is always the issue. On immortal if I get a bad production start and don't pick that pantheon, I usually have to pause warmongering and develop the cities first which kinda stinks sometimes...

Some civs like ottomans are kinda immune to these kinds of restrictions.

Some people like to chop their armies out and while that works if you have enough forests, I personally prefer not to chop 3 production woods only the low 2 ones and I strongly prefer lumber mills. I like having high production for tanks later.
 
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