Got a question! Strange unit shenanigans...

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Greyhawk1, Jul 19, 2008.

  1. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    In my current game i'm in a fairly low-key war vs the Spanish. Its an archipelago map so wars are generally short and not that deadly. I landed a galleon worth of units (2 elite knights and 2 cavalry) on a small island with 1 spanish city on it.

    The defending unit was a veteran Spearman as shown on the map before i landed.

    So the AI gets a turn's grace before I can attack since you cant move after you land.

    Bizarrely the Spearman was now an Elite not a veteran and had an asterisk next to the "elite"?? It killed my two elite Knights but eventually died to one of my cavalry units. There was no combat before or after I landed. :confused:

    I've never seen this before...anyone know what it was? I had a look in the manual and in the 'pedia but couldnt see it.

    This is C3C v1.22
     
  2. TheOverseer714

    TheOverseer714 Overseer

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    Are they at war with someone else that got to attack them on the IBT? Like the Vikings? If you have your preferences set to not show combats, you wouldn't see what happened. You could have had a nice before and after picture for the interesting screenshots thread if you'd taken pictures.
     
  3. Xethorsiph

    Xethorsiph Chieftain

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    The spearman may have been injured within the city and just healed on the IBT, making it the stronger defender?
     
  4. mythmonster2

    mythmonster2 BEC NOIR! RUN!

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    Hmmmm, probably what Xethor said. If you have an autosave from one turn back, is there any way you could have investigated the city to see?
     
  5. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    Spain was not at war with anyone at that point except me. I'll hunt around for a save but I doubt I'll have one. How do you take screenshots?

    Noob alert :crazyeye:
     
  6. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    Well I found a save after I attacked it but anyway...is there a better way to take a screenie other than prnt-scrn + paste into paint?

    Sigh - file wont upload either. Not having a good day so far...
     
  7. darski

    darski Regent in Training

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    I really like this little program. it was recommended to me a while back.

    http://www.flightsimworld.com/downloads/viewfile/1058.html

    it just makes it so nice when you can take all the pics you want without interrupting your game to deal with each one. You can then work with them in Paint (or Paint.net which I prefer) and do all the neat stuff.

    The program creates bmp's so you do have to save as jpg's to post them here
     
  8. mythmonster2

    mythmonster2 BEC NOIR! RUN!

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    Unfortunately, JPGs can screw up quality, so I usually do PNGs.
     
  9. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    Aha this time it worked....
     

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  10. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    Yeah and who said Man-O-Wars are great? They're a bit cack to be honest. Ok they're better than a frigate but not much better.

    Attacked a column of three scandinavian frigates with four Man-O-War. One Elite and 3 Vets.

    I lost all the Man-O-Wars except the Elite and enslaved 2. So ended up with 1 elite on 1 hp and 2 regulars...awesome :\

    All three were destroyed a few turns later attacking a single frigate. Compared to some of those UU's out in the field (sipahi, cossacks etc) the Man-O-War is not in the same league IMO.

    Come on Destroyers...all is forgiven!
     
  11. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    Not sure about the asterisk, but is there any chance that the spearman attacked your units after landing but before you attacked? I have had that happen, and in one case the spearman went from regular to veteran very quickly. Yours might have gone from veteran to elite. The rapid promotion I put down to a quirk in the RNG, as I have actually had that happen a couple of times to my units when I am beating on barbarians, a regular warrior going to elite in two combats.

    As for the Man-O-War verses frigates, that is a case of poor unit combat ratings. I assume that a Man-O-War represents a 74-gun ship of the line, while the frigates are either of 32 guns, mounting 26 twelve-pounders on the gun deck, or of 38 guns, mounting 28 eighteen-pounders on the gun deck. The 74 would normally carry 28 thirty-two pound and 28 eighteen pound cannon on its two guns decks. The rule of thumb during the Age of Sail period was that 2 or 3 very well handled frigates had a reasonable chance against a single 74 gun ship of the line. Your combats should have been quite one-sided in your favor. Sheer weight of broadside was a good predictor of outcome during that period, combined with the limited ability of frigates to damage the ship of the line. Eighteen pound guns were borderline against the hull of the 74, and twelve pound guns were only effective against the upper decks and rigging. Theodore Roosevelt, while Assistant Secretary of the US Navy developed a pretty good formula for predicting the outcome of Age of Sail ship fights.

    Basically, a Man-O-War should sink a frigate while taking maybe one hit point of damage. Right now, I am using a rating of 6/6 with +2 hitpoints for the Man-O-War, and 4/4 with no extra hitpoints for the frigate, but I do not have enough of a combat test base to determine if that is accurate enough or not. I have pretty much reworked all of the naval vessels ratings, but I am still in the basic test period. The AI is not cooperating by producing the right ships. Very unfriendly of it. I may have to go to a hot seat game to have a chance at a more accurate evaluation.
     
  12. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Do you have combat animated? Is it possible that there was combat, but that you didn't see it? You landed 2 knights and 2 cavs, but I can't see how many units are in your stack.

    Oh, and the asterisk indicates that the spearman had generated a Military Great Leader, at least at some point. Did you kill an MGL when you took the city?
     
  13. Whythat

    Whythat Chieftain

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    If not at war with anyone is it possible there were still barbarians on the island? A barbarian attack could account for the promotion, although strange to still have barbarians that late in the game.
     
  14. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Barbs could account for the promotion to elite, but not to elite*. You can't get MGLs from barbs.
     
  15. timerover51

    timerover51 Deity

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    Aabraxan, thank you for the information about the asterisk. I suspect that the spearman attacked his stack with a resulting promotion.
     
  16. Xethorsiph

    Xethorsiph Chieftain

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    You had 2 knights and 2 Cavs right? I only count 3 lines under the health bar, so it appears Timerover was right about the IBT attack.
     
  17. Whythat

    Whythat Chieftain

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    Oops, so much for that idea. :crazyeye:
     
  18. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    Thanks for posting the link to that program Darski!
     
  19. Greyhawk1

    Greyhawk1 King

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    No there's two units there...the 2 surviving Cavalry units which took the city next turn.

    Does a GL convert to a captured worker if you capture a city with one in it? If so, I did get a captured worker from that city so I could have capped the GL before he had a chance to be moved. Nice to know thats what the asterisk means finally :)

    I guess there could have been units on the island before I landed my troops...that would explain the promo and GL. I have animations on but I could well have been asleep, taking a leak or making a cuppa while the turn rolled around.

    Mystery solved at any rate...shame I was looking forward to a "da puter cheetz!" rant...bah. :mad:
     
  20. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Yup. Mystery solved. Obviously, something killed your knights.

    No. GLs fall over dead. At least, they do in the open field. I once started a war with the Zulu to prevent an MGL of theirs from making it back to a city & that's what that one did.

    The * just means that the spear generated an MGL at some point. It could have been many, many turns before the screenshot was taken.

    Glad I could be of some help to you and timerover on the asterisk issue.
     

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