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GOTM 106 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Ali Ardavan, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I started playing yesterday and I know a whole bunch of you have started before me but for some reason you are silent.

    So far I have found this to be an interesting and unusual game as expected.

    First decision was what to do with the settlers send them both east, both west, or one in each direction. Extensive black clicking revealed a lake towards east not close to the starting position. Based on that and the fact that even if I found more than one island off the pole I probably do not want a spread-out country at the beginning due to corruption issues, I sent both settlers east.

    Second decision point was when I found the single tile Musk Ox off the pole. Should I plant my capital there or keep going? Again, I decided that the rest of my country will be paralyzed by corruption so I better move on. Eventually I got to the lake. I explored the island thoroughly first and then planned on 4 cities.

    The single hut on the island gave me the worst thing it possibly could (given that you do not get barbarians before you have a city): an off path tech (Masonry).

    Third decision was whether to build two cities with my two settlers or keep one for work. Since size 1 trick was such an obvious choice here I opted to keep the second settler. After the first settler was produced, I did the size 1 trick one more time and then built two cities in quick succession.
     
  2. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    I played till 1 AD. I decided to build one city near the fish. I want to get to Monarchy as soon as possible (the extra food is important to grow at the pole) and did not think that exploring could help me faster. At 1250 bc I could change to Monarchy. And at 1 AD I finally build Marco Polo. It's a bit strange to build caravans and have to move them over 15 tiles to help with building a wonder.....

    Now I can trade maps and do deliveries I finally can try to play more like a normal Landing game....it's funny to see that at 1 AD I'm the weakest civ of all instead of supreme. When I have more time I will post some stats....
     
  3. CharlieChuck

    CharlieChuck Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Messages:
    305
    Location:
    england
    I decided to build a city near the fish and send the other searching to the right. Black clicking showed continents 3 and 8 seemed possible sites to build up and civ and eventually move the capital. I went for triremes first then monarchy. The second city was on the rams 35,1. After seeing the terrain on cont. 3 & 8 and also finding the indians there it seemed like a bad plan. But I got an alliance with indians and celts with regular money from each.

    The english weren't too friendly, and the obvious long term aim is to get rid of Indians & english from cont 8. It's very slow going, currently researching electricity, could get tech every few turns, except I'm fighting wars with Ind & Eng, so concentrating more on arming.

    In some ways this is like playing a deity +2/3 game. It'll be interesting to see other people's landing dates, mine seems to be taking forever to get near, but I suppose everyone else wll too.
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    What "Indians" are you talking about? The human player is playing as Indians in this game.
     
  5. CharlieChuck

    CharlieChuck Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
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    Location:
    england
    Good point, I mean the germans.
     
  6. willemvanoranje

    willemvanoranje Curitibano

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2001
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    8,207
    Location:
    Amsterdam/Stuttgart/Curitiba/Lima
    Fortunately there are some civs that are even worse than I am; Gerries and Babylonians. Nonetheless the English and Persians are dominating the seas... and both at war with me. Thank God they also can't stand each other and therefore tend to ignore me despite the war.
     
  7. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2001
    Messages:
    776
    Location:
    The N hemisphere near fire and ice
    I'm finally finished, this took a *lot* of time and was the most interesting game I have played for years. For a fairly long time I didn't know if I was going to win the game but in the end I succeeded after huge military operations. I had about 40 howitzers when the military ops peaked.

    The first thing to decide was what to do with the settlers. I didn't black click (I almost never do) and eventually decided to take some risk by sending one settler to the west and one to the east. Many turns later this resulted in two cities a bit south of the pole in fairly good terrain, at least compared to the poles. By that time I was far behind everyone else. Discovering mapmaking was priority #1 followed by monarchy. Some time passed, I founded a few cities and eventually found the Germans. I exchanged some techs and founded a few cities on islands near the western end of Germany (which was long in the E-W direction). I then started military operations against them using several crusaders and diplomats because I really needed to expand and they were rather weak. When I had captured 3 out of their 6 cities I was at a highly critical juncture: Republic now or later? I was about to get my first wonder, Michelangelos Chapel, after a wonder race but there were problems with some off my cities if I chose republic: Unit support (lack of shields), settlers that took away food and civil disorder due to military units outside of cities. And demanding tribute is fun. Under these circumstances I have frequently stayed in monarchy for some time but at this time I was getting really worried that I might not be able to win the game or that things would become a big mess before I finally managed to win (nuclear war where the AI would be the first one to attack, lots of pollution, heavy military losses and possibly a major race to capture enemy capitals before a spaceship landing). So I did something unusual: I decided to finally make a proper test of which strategy was better, immediate republic or staying in monarchy. This meant creating a separate comparison game, getting myself into a similar situation and playing twice from a certain point in that game to compare things. This took some time but the results were clear: Immediate republic was by far the best option. So I guess I'll never again delay republic once I have it plus MC. And I could continue.

    So republic it was and military operations against the Germans continued. I also did a lot of micromanagement - I'm usually too lazy to do it but I was really worried I'd not be able to win so I did it by going through most or sometimes all of my cities almost every turn to adjust production/trade/food (for example emphasizing trade when I had enough shields to get what I was building next turn), optimizing rush buys etc. This I did for many turns until I was absolutely sure I was going to win and thus could afford some carelessness. I also started establishing rudimentary ship chains using triremes to deliver caravans. Delivering caravans became a huge priority and I had to skip most of the wonders I usually want, either because getting them was too expensive or I simply couldn't get them. Exceptions: Mike and Bach.

    Around the time I was finishing off the Germans I discovered a Celtic colony on an island SW of Germany. I stole some techs and captured two of five cities there. At this time bulding Bach and then switching to democracy was priority #1 but I was expecting it to take a lot of time (especially getting democracy). However, I discovered the Babylonians fairly near my main Indian landmass and they immediately became my favourite caravan destination. Suddenly they offered me 150 gold, democracy and an alliance for declaring war on the English. I wasn't really ready for starting military action against the English and would have preferred peace for a few more turns but this offer was a dream come true. After building Bach I immediately switched to democracy and soon after that celebrated several turns of president's day and things finally started to look less bleak. At that moment I was finally getting close to the big AI civs (the Celts, Spain, England and Persia) techwise and especially in population. Electricity became the #1 priority because the Celts had the GL, the Celts and/or the English were going to be my next military goal and I didn't want the Celts to automatically get every tech I stole or captured from someone else.

    (to be continued :D).
     
  8. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    353
    This was my first civ game in almost five years, and I was very rusty, especially in the early game. I tried a few practice games with random maps at deity, but I couldn't generate anything like the nasty start in this game. Magic took all my usual strategies away with the crummy terrain. I never have played a game where the AI was so equal until the very end. I did finish, in the early 20th century. I ran celebrating Fundy for 200 years. This feels like a personal high score for me, but that isn't saying much.

    At the beginning, I wondered whether it was in the spirit of the game to build on the pole and suffer. I decided that we would have been given an actual city had that been the case, so I decided that searching for non-tundra land should be a reasonable goal. On a big map, my goals were Lighthouse and MPE, and depending on haw late my city placement was, I would probably have to start a wonder before I got Trade.

    With nothing to go on, I headed West. I saw the border of one square pretty quick, but didn't want to risk it being a 1-square island with only a fish for food. Ditto for the musk ox, though that was tempting. Eventually I found a plains square, then a hut (archer) When I got to the bottom of the island, I gave up and founded Delhi in 2800bc. I started colossus the hard way. That was a good decision. The other settler found a hut (archer) and eventually plopped down on the 2-pheasant site to the east. The archer continued East, and found more huts. I don't know whether the civ gods wanted me hooked again, but I got great hut luck - the first huts on each new landmass were nomads or tribes for a long time. I know that samson says that the percentages say it could happen a lot, but it still was much appreciated.

    LH in 700bc
    MPE in 20ad
    first caravan delivery 540ad
    won a white knuckle wonder race to Leos 1320, involving disbanding units and selling improvements.
    Republic 1320
    1400 4 Crooks not enough to take Berlin.
    Gunpowder 1500
    1520 capture first Persian city. Navigation
    1530 Berlin falls after caravel wipes out last wouded defender
    -Berlin has Pyr, GW, KRC. I feel like I might win now
    1840 The Celts are ahead of me and victory is not at all certain.I resolve to go fundy.
    1865 Fundy, lux at 60. Constant war.
    1880 Howies. THe fun begins
    1892 Babs and Persians out in one turn.
    1902 English hunted down
    1908 Apollo
    victory shortly thereafter. Citizens: 1726...a new personal high.

    It's good to be back.
     
  9. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
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    OK that log was made too quickly.

    I headed East, not West, at the beginning.

    I only spent about 50 years in fundy. They were long turns, so it seemed like it must have been 200.
     
  10. Peaster

    Peaster Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Welcome back, Grigor! I am slightly regretting not playing this one.
     
  11. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Moderator Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Amersfoort (Netherlands)
    I forgot to post a log for this GOTM. This was the first time in many games I did not know if I could win. The only wonder I could build was Marco Polo. I tried Michelangelo's but the AI beat me with two turns......So no hapiness wonders till Cure for Cancer. Around 1800 AD I became for the first time the strongest civ and after that point and having Howitzer I tried to conquer the world. I started to early (army was a bit to small) so it took a lot of turns to win a full scale war against 5 civ's.

    I build a few cities on the north pole after the start. I wanted Monarchy as soon as possible...don't know if it was the best choice but looking at the results I guess it was ok to do.

    If somebody wants a more detailed log please let know...I can post it later.
     
  12. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Here are highlights of my log:

    -4000 Moving towards east.
    -3000 Found land.
    -2850 Masonry from first hut.
    -2750 Delhi founded on forest. Going for size 1 settler production.

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.01M; Cities: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 0; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 5; Production: 3MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders:
    Units: 2 Settlers (1 None)
    Celt: No contact
    Babylonian: No contact
    German: No contact
    Spanish: No contact
    Persian: No contact
    English: No contact

    -1650 Second size 1 settler produced. Bombay founded.
    -1600 Madras founded.
    -1550 English start Colossus. This is scary.

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.05M; Cities: 3; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 9; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 6; Production: 10MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders:
    Units: 1 None Settler, 3 Warriors
    Celt: No contact
    Babylonian: No contact
    German: No contact
    Spanish: No contact
    Persian: No contact
    English: No contact

    -0800 It is rare that I lose Colossus but English London beat me to it.
    -0725 Spotted British on island 8.
    -0250 London builds Copernicus. Either I have to take London and make it my science city or this is a war game.
    -0050 Marco built. Revolution started.
    -0025 Monarchy established.

    Status at +0001
    Population: 0.18M; Cities: 7; Trade routes: 0D0F; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 3; Cost per turn: 0; Total advances: 19; Production: 27MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Marco
    Units: 4 Settlers (1 None), 5 Warriors, 3 Phalanx, 1 Legion, 2 Trireme
    Celt: 6 cities, 16 techs;
    Babylonian: 4 cities, 12 techs; War with Persians;
    German: 6 cities, 18 techs; Allied with me; Hanging Gardens, Great Wall
    Spanish: 10 cities, 17 techs;
    Persian: 8 cities, 17 techs; War with Babylonians; Pyramids
    English: 9 cities, 18 techs; Colossus, Copernicus
     
  13. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Location:
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    Somewhere in this period I decided this is going to be a war game though hostilities did not really start before +1000. I soon realized that attacking with Crusaders would be foolish. My rivals were quite strong. Pikemen and musketeers were around the corner. I realized I had to wait till Cavalry and powerful ships. Indeed the majority of the conquests were done with Cavalry and ships from Ironclad up.

    I decided to go for early Communism through Statue of Liberty. This was a careful choice (war and science) and it worked out well. I stayed the rest of the game in Communism which was soon celebrating Communism.

    Highlights of my log:

    +0380 Persians beat me to Philosophy.
    +0440 Spanish build Oracle. Punjab founded.
    Gems to Germans establishes the first trade route.
    +0700 Leo built.
    +0940 Statue of Liberty built. Communism established. T2L0S8. Ganges founded.
    +0960 First infrastructure, a Harbor, built. Monotheism -> Chivalry.

    Status at +1000
    Population: 0.8M; Cities: 17; Trade routes: 2D8F; Government: Communism
    Gold: 170; Cost per turn: 2; Total advances: 34; Production: 82MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Marco, Sun Tzu, Leo, Statue of Liberty
    Units: 3 Settlers (2 None), 33 Musketeers, 1 Crusader, 3 Caravel, 1 Diplomat, 15 Caravans, 1 Explorer
    Celt: 9 cities, 34 techs; Great Library
    Babylonian: 5 cities, 27 techs; Allied with me;
    German: 6 cities, 30 techs; Allied with me; Hanging Gardens, Great Wall, King Richard
    Spanish: 12 cities, 25 techs; Oracle, Magellan
    Persian: 12 cities, 30 techs; Pyramids, Lighthouse, Shakespeare
    English: 10 cities, 31 techs; Allied with me; Colossus, Copernicus
     
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    The race for wonders in this game was very tight. I lost a number of crucial ones to rivals. There were points at which there were no wonders left to build.

    Realizing I need to get stronger before fighting any of my rivals I made as many alliances as I could and milked them as much as possible.

    Highlights of my log:

    +1080 Michelangelo built.
    +1120 Chivalry -> Explosives.
    +1220 Explosives -> Leadership.
    +1280 Leadership -> Theology.
    +1400 Persians build Eiffel. There are no wonders left to build. Theology -> Conscription.
    +1420 Persians (6) declare war over my demand for tribute.
    Advanced tribe founds Cunaxa of size 2 with Temple and Library on island 33 between Persia and Spain. This is a great outpost.
    +1460 Bach built. Coal to Persians for 320. Cremona founded.
    +1500 Conscription -> Electricity.

    Status at +1500
    Population: 1.6M; Cities: 20; Trade routes: 2D21F; Government: Communism
    Gold: 2570; Cost per turn: 12; Total advances: 45; Production: 96MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Marco, Sun Tzu, Leo, Statue of Liberty, Michelangelo, Bach
    Units: 7 Engineers (2 None), 32 Riflemen, 6 Dragoons, 4 Galleon, 5 Frigates, 4 Ironclads, 4 Diplomats, 16 Caravans, 1 Explorer
    Celt: 10 cities, 41 techs; Great Library
    Babylonian: 5 cities, 34 techs; Allied with me;
    German: 6 cities, 36 techs; Allied with me; Hanging Gardens, Great Wall, King Richard
    Spanish: 15 cities, 28 techs; Oracle, Magellan
    Persian: 12 cities, 36 techs; War with me; Pyramids, Lighthouse, Shakespeare, Eiffel
    English: 11 cities, 39 techs; Allied with me; Colossus, Copernicus
     
  15. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    First hostilities start early in this period. Persians happened to be my first target; Babylonians last.

    Near the end with my empire ever expanding turns were taking very long preventing me from a timely end.

    Highlights from my log:

    +1530 Bought 148 shields towards Darwin to beat Persians to it.
    T2L8S0 shooting for happy Communism. Rushing Marketplaces.
    +1540 Darwin built. Tactics -> Amphibious Warfare -> Industrialization.
    All but one eligible city celebrate. Capua founded. T0L4S6.
    +1570 Persian Ironclad destroys Frigate with a diplomat and a cavalry aboard.
    2 Destroyers and a Frigate kill 4 defenders of Persian capital of Bactra. Cavalry walks in and takes the city for Shakespeare and 148g.
    +1630 Steel -> Machine Tools. Industrialization -> Babylonian (0), Spanish(5). My power is finally supreme. Two warriors defending Gordium killed and the city taken over for 200g, Library, City walls, Bank, Colosseum, and Harbor. Accepted Persian offer of 300g for a cease fire and another 300 for peace.
    +1730 Spanish build Suffrage. Refining -> Combustion. Cure for Cancer built. Persian (2) -> 150g tribute.
    +1740 Germans cancel alliance over my refusal to give them Tactics. Persian (2) -> 150g tribute. Celts and Spanish have repeated been ignoring my demands for tribute.
    +1750 Combustion -> Espionage. Spice to English for 312. Celts and Spanish finally declare war over my demand for tribute. Cork taken for 178g, Granary, and Marketplace. Celtic Caerphilly bought for 1624.

    Status at +1750
    Population: 5.8M; Cities: 34; Trade routes: 11D37F; Government: Communism
    Gold: 339; Cost per turn: 72; Total advances: 59; Production: 183MT; 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Marco, Sun Tzu, Shakespeare, Leo, Statue of Liberty, Michelangelo, Bach, Darwin, Cure for Cancer
    Units: 10 Engineers (2 None), 1 Musketeer, 1 Alpine, 34 Riflemen, 13 Cavalry, 1 Artillery, 5 Frigates, 5 Destroyers, 1 Cruiser, 6 Transports, 4 Diplomats, 8 Freights, 1 Explorer
    Celt: No embassy; War with me; Great Library
    Babylonian: No embassy; Allied with me; Adam Smith
    German: No embassy; ; Hanging Gardens, Great Wall, King Richard
    Spanish: No embassy; War with me; Oracle, Magellan, Suffrage
    Persian: No embassy; ; Pyramids, Lighthouse, Eiffel
    English: No embassy; Allied with me; Colossus, Copernicus
     
  16. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Three things dragged the war more than I expected:
    1. English being in Democracy (no bribery) and having heavily fortified cities with city walls and coastal fortresses.
    2. Babylonians having a remote city (founded by an Advanced tribe) in an unexplored part of their homeland.
    3. Babylonians switching to Democracy when my spy finally arrives at their only remote city.

    +1752 Celtic Carmarthen captured for 180g.
    +1754 Celts kill a cavalry. Spanish and Persians unite against me. English cancel alliance over my refusal to give them Tactics. Persians declare war over my demand for tribute. Babylonians dissolve alliance over my gift request.
    +1764 English land near undefended Prague. Guerrilla Warfare -> Electronics.
    English declare war when I demand removal of their troops.
    +1766 Persian Arbela bought for 504. Spy escaped. Got Eiffel, 195g, 2 units, and 7 structures. Persian civilization destroyed.
    +1780 Final defender of Tintagel killed and the city taken over for 162g and 2 structures. Celtic civilization destroyed.
    +1794 English capture Belfast and take Machine Tools.
    +1808 Gave 3 techs and peace to single city Germans to get them to reveal the position of their final city. Alhambra founded. 2 Babylonian vessels sunk. Lost about 10 units in attacks on two Spanish cities.
    +1812 German Nuremberg subverted for 2x168g. Spy lost. Got 72g, a rifleman, and a temple. German civilization destroyed.
    +1818 First aerial attack results in loss of one fighter and 2 English casualties.
    +1828 First Airport built. Defenseless Spanish Valladolid taken for 106g and a structure. Spanish civilization destroyed.
    +1832 4 defenders of London killed at the cost of 3 ships. The city taken over for Copernicus, Colossus, 257g, and 3 structures. 5 Partisans appear. Lost a plane and killed four of them. Single defender of Ashur killed and the city taken for 79g, and city walls. One partisan appears and immediately killed at the expense of a plane and a destroyer.
    +1836 At the expense of one plane the 2 defenders of Babylon are killed and the city is taken for Adam Smith, 63g and 2 structures. One partisan appears. Single defender of Uruk killed and the city taken for 58g and 2 structures. One partisan appears. 4 defenders of English Hastings killed and the city taken for 358g and 2 structures. 5 partisans appear. Beka founded.
    +1838 Mobile Warfare -> Combined Arms. English Coventry rendered defenseless at the expense of a destroyer and a bomber. The city is taken for 247g and Harbor. English civilization destroyed. Babylonian Akkad taken at the expense of a cruiser for 101g and Colosseum. One partisan appears. Gifted Babylonians to map exchange. Good thing I did that. Their last city is very far from the rest of their empire and founded by an Advanced tribe.
    +1846 Combined Arms ->Mass Production. UN built. Domestic deliveries for 227, 24, 34, 40, 19, 58, 18, 50. Babylonians have switched to democracy preventing me from buying their last city.
    +1851 Mass Production -> Nuclear Fission. Domestic deliveries for 52, 56, 34, 28, 66, 60, 38. Attack on only Babylonian city starts with naval bombardment. Killing its sole defender. Eridu taken for 72g. Babylonian civilization destroyed.
     

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