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GOTM 127 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Inkerman, Nov 3, 2011.

  1. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    This can be such a short game that correspondents might consider finishing their game before coming here.

    ***

    I note in the game thread itself that this is somewhat similar to GotM 123. I had messed that one up by not realising that OCC was disallowed until I was well into it (well strictly speaking OCC landing was not allowed, but I had not at that time heard of OCC conquest.)

    This time I decided to go with EC, and it played out in a couple of evenings to a BC finish. The absence of restarts is a big help to finishing quickly as there is no need to chase around the map.

    Peaster (master of EC!) suggests in the main game thread that the green star result for quickest finish might come down to chance factors such as hut outcomes. Having played I can appreciate that, although I think there are a couple of other things that made more difference to my timing.

    I had done some map analysis beforehand. I made a sample map in map editor showing where the local land was in relation to the sea. It turned out I got a special wrong, confusing whales and fish, but I had the locations right.

    I used this to play the first part as ICS without touching huts and without sending out any exploring units. This brought monarchy in 2050, which I expect will be a common date to players doing this.

    From 2000 to 1000 growth continued and explorers went out. I think that part of my game went well.

    The first hut pop was 1800 close to an existing city, and produced a mercenary. There was only one other before 1000, and that too was a mercenary.

    The wars came after that and were reasonably straightforward because of Prince level. That also meant happiness was never an issue.

    Things I could do better next time are management of the tech path and more disciplined use of funds for IRB.
     
  2. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    I also went for (a kind of) EC. However I focused more on exploration, chose riding as first tech to send out an early fast unit for hut popping and to find the AIs.
    That turned out pretty well, got some units, gold and an advanced tribe near Rome.
    The game was over pretty fast, I couldn't discover trade or republic, didn't build a single city improvement and only one wonder (during the turn i conquered the final AI city).
    Maybe I should have gone for blue/gold with highscoring instead...
     
  3. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Interesting comment about, presumably, choosing Horseback Riding vs Mapmaking as the third (off path) tech en route to Monarchy. That does allow a quicker exploration by land, and horses are less expensive than a trireme + warrior. It sounds as if that was quicker than my approach, although I did get a chariot from the first hut pop and got ships out early which was helpful.

    I did mention doubts about the tech path I took in the first post.

    In fact I was thinking more of the post-monarchy development. Had I paid more heed to Peaster's comments in the GotM 123 spoiler I might have emphasised the wonderless and tradeless approach, and beelined for polytheism (PT), rather than the route I actually took of getting Bronze working, Currency and Trade first, none of which played much part in the game. I suspect that could save quite a few turns, although in a quick replay (hard to take it too seriously when you know where to find things) it made less difference than I expected, because the AI were less gullible, refusing maps.

    I did hit fatal barbs before an advanced tribe or nomads with the longer range land exploration, but I'm not sure that made much difference.
     
  4. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    Actually, HBR was my very first tech choice. However, there is still a direct path to Monarchy after that: Burial-Alphabet(tech group 2 is blocked now)-Code of Law-Monarchy. That didn't work out in my game because I met the Romans before, demanded tribute and they generously gave me warrior code...:rolleyes:
    So I researched map making in between, that I didn't consider as a high priority on such a large continent.
     
  5. Peaster

    Peaster Chieftain

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    Games above by I-man and MA sound quite good. Probably better than mine, though I also got a BC finish. My overall luck was probably below average, but not very bad. I played my usual strategy, but without Wows or van trade. Bolder strategies like Major's or grigor's are probably better on such a map.

    3900BC Thebes (1) on the buffalo, and go for size one trick. At alph.
    3450BC alph --> cl
    3250BC S#2
    3150BC Memphis (2)
    2750BC cl --> mm (hbr was not an option; later I went for mo'y and tr and poly; but I like Major A's path better).
    2400BC 1st hut = 25g. Later got pots and horse, never got a nomad or AT or barbs.
    2050BC Monarchy, with 4 cities. ICS seemed slow here, with more plains than grass in sight.
    1800BC 3 new cities in this turn, makes 7.
    1300BC Curr --> hbr, contact with 2 AI, info on 3rd, nominal war with Rome.

    1000BC 13 cities, monarchy, 9adv, no Ws, have 3 boats, 1S, 2w, 1ho. The plan is to get Poly asap and go conquer. Probably, I am slow; better to beeline Poly or start EC with horses or more outposts.

    950BC Tr --> Poly. Also, Wri from Romans. Nominal war with Zulu's. Building 2 barracks.
    825BC Poly... almost all 14 cities produce ellies now. IRBing vets.
    700BC; getting some gold for cf's, R+Z maps, 7 ellies now.
    650BC; now 12 ellies, with clear plans for R+Z's, some access problems with Zs. No Fr map.
    550BC: Rome (city) down; found Paris (625BC) and French down.

    500BC 19 cities; 15adv; 16ele, approx 3 AI cities left (no MPE to be sure).

    End log; I had some rather bad luck at the end with new AI cities arising "from nowhere", probably from huts (previous AI maps did not show settlers near these locations). Finding and razing these took several extra turns, which allowed time to build the Pyramids. I lost 5 ellies and 5 other units in combat, which seemed a little high, but not too bad. A short easy game.
     
  6. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    I also considered using the buffalo for size-1, but then decided against it and use the river (and the marine special north) instead. Size-1 wasn't an option, so early exploration seemed to be an obvious choice.

    -3950 Thebes founded (at river mouth) > Warrior
    -3900 Begin HBR, prod. to settler (to switch to horse)
    -3700 HBR->CB, prod. to horse
    -3600 horse >settler, start exploring
    -3500 hut-> nothing
    -3350 hut 50g
    -3300 CB->Alph
    -3200 hut: NONE horse
    -3150 Theb sttler> another
    -2950 Memphis founded
    -2900 Meet Romans, give CB, get Alph, peace, demand tribute: get WC :(
    -2850 Research to COL; hut: AT near roman warrior (Heliopolis)
    -2750 100g from hut
    -2650 COL-> MM
    -2600 Elephantine founded
    -2250 MM-> Mon.
    -2050 horse(s) from hut, Alexandria founded
    -2000 Pi-Ramesses founded

    Stat at -2000:
    cities: 6; techs: 6 (researching Mon.); government: Despo
    units: 3 horse, 1 settler
    Romans: neutral, peace

    -1950 Giza founded
    -1850 Mon.(revolt & established)->Writing
    -1800 huts: 100g & Archer
    -1700 hut: AT (Byblos)
    -1600 Writing -> Poly
    -1500 El-Amarna founded
    -1350 Poly -> Myst.; switch to elefants near Rome, contact Rome, give Writing get bronze, demand tribute, they withdraw
    -1300 NONE-Archer from hut (popped by NONE-horse, so no nearest-city-info), Hieraconpolis founded
    -1200 Abydos founded
    -1150 Nomads, 1st elefant built
    -1100 Myst.->Literacy; Meet Zulu, peace, give MM,Poly, maps (includes French Orleans), get 100g tribute
    -1050 Asyut, Avaris founded
    -1000 Meet French, decline peace offer, accept for 50g

    Stat at -1000:
    cities: 13; techs: 11 (researching Lit.); government: Mon
    units: 3 horse, 2 ele, 2 Archer, 1 dip, 3 settler, 2 trireme
    Romans: neutral, peace
    Zulu: cordial, peace
    French: neutral, peace

    War started soon after and didn't take long. I guess I was very lucky to: a) get an early city just outside the roman territory (to keep them contained) and b) France and Zulu were already fighting each other, so I just had to clean up. ;)
    When all was over, I only had to take/raze/bribe 6 AI cities (2 per civ).
     
  7. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    And the final part:

    -975 Romans have masonry >> should attack soon before they build city walls
    -950 French attack Zulu Ulundi, Orleans disappeared, hut: Iron working, demand roman tribute: withdraw and 50g
    -900 sneak attack romans
    -875 Literacy->philo
    -850 Veii razed (18g+Masonry), Rome emptied; Lisht founded
    -800 Rome razed (18g), roman empire destroyed; Buto, Edfu founded
    -775 Contact french, alliance for joining their war with Zulu, maps; bribe Ulundi 98g (17+pottery)
    -700 Philo->Mono->Republic; get currency for literacy from French
    -650 capture Zimbabwe (41g), Zulu destroyed; cancel alliance with France
    -625 AT (Pithom) on cont.#3, shipping troops towards Paris, start some wonders
    -550 Attack French warrior, raze freshly founded Lyons (8g)
    -525 Attack on Paris next turn, Pyramids bought for 324g
    -500 Pyramids built, Arthribis founded, Paris emptied, Luxuries to 70%, re-arrange workers for happiness, raze Paris (18g), French destroyed

    Stat at -500:
    cities: 22; techs: 18; government: Mon

    World conquered!

    Too late I realized that HG instead of Pyramids would have increased the score. On the other hand: We are Egypt and if there is just one wonder to build, it should logically be the pyramids.

    So it seems I could finish faster than Peaster! :eek: I can't tell if it was luck or strategy (or both or luck that my strategy worked better).
     
  8. Peaster

    Peaster Chieftain

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    Congratulations Major A! It looks like you win Green (unless somebody's not posting, or Inkerman finished even sooner). I finished around -400. Looking over your log, I think your horse strategy was the main factor. You had fairly good luck with the early AT and founding near the whale, but it wasn't really unusual. I assume the whale was luck, but perhaps it was map analysis instead (?).

    Too bad Grigor didn't show - he's often beat me on these small maps, and his game would've been an interesting comparison.
     
  9. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

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    I am sorry not to be able to play this month. Too much RL. Maybe the next two (!!) as university breaks give me some time.:lol: Small maps are not my best but I was looking forward to a lean try.
     
  10. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    My finish was six or so turns behind Major Advantage's game, and a couple after Peaster's. I did build the Hanging Gardens rather than Pyramids in the last turn though which will help the score (yes mine is over 50 in standard scoring I'm afraid.)

    I add my congratulations - well done, good effort. I am still wondering between the exploring options but the horse does seem to have beaten the ship this time. Perhaps amusingly it is how I used to approach playing this game some time ago, but it didn't really even occur to me as an option this time.
     
  11. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    Thanks guys!

    Map analysis told me there had to be a special, I just couldn't tell wether it was whale or fish. It would help early developement either way, but the whale was definitely better.
     
  12. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Here is my log for whatever it is worth. It is too late for me to continue this game.

    Map Analysis

    Resource seed is 28, 44, or 60. There is a 3 special sites 3 moves away. It has the visible buffalo, one other special on land and one ocean special. It has ocean access and access to at least 3 river beds (compared to 4) at the original location. For OCC, the alternate location is a must, since the starting location has no ocean access.

    Due to lack of time, I have to do either OCC or early conquest. Since there are only 4 civs and they are white, green, blue, and yellow. All except the weakest player will have no key civ. Since at Prince level, I am not going to be the weakest playing OCC, the OCC is going to take longer than usual. Conquest it is.

    Date Notes

    -4000 Settler moves north.
    -3950 Thebes founded. Warrior started.
    -3900 -> Alphabet
    -3700 Alphabet -> Burial.
    -3550 Archer from hut. Resource seed is 60.
    -3300 Burial -> Bronze. Advanced tribe founds Memphis.
    -3150 Archer from hut.
    -3100 Heliopolis founded at the 3 special site. 50g from hut.
    -2950 Bronze -> Code of Laws.
    -2850 50g from hut.
    -2750 Empty hut.
    -2650 Laws -> Monarchy. Chariot from hut.
    -2500 French civilization destroyed by Zulu. Elephantine founded.
    -2450 Horseman from hut. Warrior disbanded due to lack of support.
    -2300 Monarchy -> Currency. Revolution started. Alexandria founded.
    -2250 Monarchy established. T3L0S7. Pi-Ramesses founded. Empty hut.
    -2050 Currency -> Trade. 50g from hut.
    -2000 Giza founded.

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.11M; Cities: 7; Techs: 6; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 85; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 2 Archers, 1 Horseman, 1 Chariot
    Goals: Trade, Marco
    Roman: No contact
    Zulu: No contact
    French: Destroyed by Zulu
     
  13. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

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    I finally got time to play. This was a very exciting opportunity for lean EC, and my goal was 1000BC. I didn't get there, but almost! I had not such great hut luck (no nomads or early gold) but I got Poly from a hut and an ellie. It was fortunate that the French and Zulus were right on a river. The French took out Ulundi, but I exchanged maps with them twice (Prince level!) and found it. As I expected, 2 ellies were enough to raze the cities on Prince.

    Log follows:
    4000 Move diagonally to be on river with Buffalo for size 1.
    3950 Thebes. Working Buffalo
    3900 Res HB

    3800 PRB warrior for settler.
    3450 HB => Alph
    3300 Size 1 Sett. Build Horse. Move up river. Find whale

    3200 find river site with whale.
    3150 Memphis.
    3050 PRB warrior in Memphis
    3000 Thebes size 2. Alph => BW
    2850 Horse in Thebes. Moves W.
    2800 Grapes hill.
    2700 BW=>CB
    2600 Hut: CB
    2550 res CoL. Memphis Sett move up river
    2500 Heliopolis on river whale
    2450 Hut: Poly!
    2400 Hut: archers. My Horse is near Rome, on our continent.
    2250 CoL => Mon. Elephantine (4). Oil found near memphis
    2050 max science to get to Mon.
    2000 Hut: 50g Status: 4 cities, despotism. researching Monarchy. 3 units

    1950 Hut: Archer
    1900 Mon=>Maps
    1850 Gov: Monarchy. Science to Max for MM

    1750 Romans: peace, tribute 50g
    1600 Maps. Science to minimum
    1550 Hut: NONE ellie. Find Veii
    1500 First Trireme sails with 2 ellies. Rome: declare War. X Veii.
    1450 Rome found size 2.
    1350Zimbabwe found. Peace, trade CB for Writing. Tribute 100g
    1300 Hut: NONE horse. French: trade and give techs, get maps, tribute 50g
    1250 Romans destroyed. IW.

    1150 French: War
    1100 Zulus: War. X Zimbabwe. X Zulus. Pottery.
    1050 Paris destroyed. Warrior Code
    1000 french: peace, gifts. Get Map. Found Ulundi.

    975 Lyons captured. Orleans bribed for 27g.
    950 Set lux to max for score (not really in the spirit...) Ulundi razed. X French
     
  14. Peaster

    Peaster Chieftain

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    Wow! IMO you are the master of EC on small maps. I envy your Poly hut, but you really hustled, to get your attack in motion so fast.
     

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