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GOTM -132 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by haleewud, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Feb 16, 2010
    I have finished this game (a couple of days ago).

    With only 3 civilizations, I knew there was a good chance that we would not have a key civ. Once the game was started I could see that the other 2 civs were the Egyptians (Yellow) and Persians (Cyan). So with only three civs, the key civs work out as follows:

    Supreme - Purple (no key civ)
    Mighty - Orange (no key civ)
    Strong - Cyan (Persians).

    So the weakest of the civs would actually have a key civ. In my game, it seemed that the Persians were the weakest civ for most of the game and so they were their own key civ.

    This, of course, means research is going to be slow. It probably also means that trade is going to be have to be a very important aspect of the game.
  2. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Do you mean "started" or actually "finished"?

    I started a few days ago. I just built Marco last night and exchanged maps with both Persians and Egyptians. I will post a log soon.

    I will most likely play a landing game. With restarts on, 9000 tiles, and 45 land masses (Island 45 is near our homeland) hunting for restarts will take forever. Besides I enjoy landing games more. Persians and Eygptians are decent rivals to have for a landing game as well.

    The surprising thing so far have been lack of a good spot for a SSC despite presenece of plenty of fertile land. I have just decided to settle for a city close to my capital with only 2 specails: fish and grass covered Silk.
  3. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Feb 16, 2010
    Technically I mean almost finished. I am at the last turn before landing. I just need to spend a few minutes (or hours) checking my citizens to make as many as possible happy.

    I was able to start the game on the same day it was posted (March 6).
  4. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Feb 16, 2010
    -4000 Moscow founded at start position, Settler moves south.
    -3950 Start Alphabet, settler starts road
    -3900 Finish Road, Change Moscow production to Warrior (I will not try to force size 1 trick).
    -3750 Moscow builds warrior, warrior moves west. St. Petersburg founded at 102,106.
    -3700 Warrior moves west, finds hut
    -3650 Pop Hut 50G
    -3550 Alphabet-> Code of Laws (26), RB Moscow 2sh.
    -3500 St.Pete builds warrior.
    -3450 Moscow size 2, RB Moscow 5sh.
    -3300 RB St.Pete 2sh
    -3200 Moscow builds settler. St.Pete size 2, RB St.Pete 6sh

    stats at -3000:
    pop.: .04M; cities: 2; techs: 2, gov: Despotism, gold: 36; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 1 settler, 2 warriors
    wonders: None
    Footprint: 2 cities in Russia

    Egyptians: No Contact
    Persians: No Contact

    -2950 Kiev founded at 109,101. RB Moscow 5sh.
    -2900 Code of Laws -> Ceremonial Burial (45)
    -2800 St.Pete Settler. RB Moscow 4sh
    -2700 Moscow Size 2, Kiev build warrior
    -2500 RB St.Pete 4sh, Kiev 2sh.
    -2450 Moscow Settler
    -2350 Minsk founded at 105,111
    -2250 CB -> Monarchy(60)
    -2100 RB Moscow 3sh.
    -2000 Population at 100K, Smolensk founded at 106,94

    stats at -2000:
    pop.: .11M; cities: 5; techs: 4, gov: Despotism, gold: 59; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 4 warriors
    wonders: None
    Footprint: 5 cities in Russia

    Egyptians: No Contact
    Persians: No Contact

    -1950 RB Moscow 3sh
    -1900 St.Pete Settler
    -1850 Kiev Settler
    -1750 RB Minsk 6sh, Kiev 5sh
    -1700 Monarchy -> Map Making(75). Mis-timed this by a turn. REVOLUTION
    -1650 Monarchy establish. RB St.Pete 5sh.
    -1600 Moscow Settler. Odessa founded at 110,96. RB Kiev 4sh
    -1550 Sevastopol founded at 100,112. RB Smolensk 2sh.
    -1450 Egyptian capital moves to Memphis. Minsk Settler.
    -1350 RB Kiev 4sh
    -1300 RB Moscow 6sh
    -1250 Map Making -> Currency(102)
    -1200 Population at 200K. Kiev builds 1st Trireme
    -1150 Smolensk Settler, St.Pete Trireme
    -1100 Tblisi founded at 109,109
    -1050 RB St.Pete 4sh

    stats at -1000:
    pop.: .25M; cities: 8; techs: 6, gov: Monarchy, gold: 112; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 2 settlers, 13 warriors, 2 trireme
    wonders: None
    Footprint: 8 cities in Russia

    Egyptians: No Contact
    Persians: No Contact

    -975 Sverdlovsk founded at 96,106,31. 1st off-shore settlement. With access to Whale and silk (under grass at this point), This will become my SSC (or maybe STC). Hut -> Currency. RB Sevastopol 1sh, St.Pete 4sh, Kiev 2sh.
    -950 Start Trade(126). Moscow settler, RB Odessa 2sh.
    -925 RB Sevastopol 4sh, Kiev 4sh
    -900 Trade -> Writing(144), Yakutsk founded at 108,86,12. RB Smolensk 1sh
    -875 Population at 300K. Hut -> HBR(tech cost to 180).
    -850 RB Sverdlovsk 7sh
    -825 St.Pete Settler, Population at 400K. RB Sevastopol 7sh, Tblisi 6sh
    -800 Minsk Settler. Vladivostok founded at 89,113,31 (initial citizen is unhappy). RB Tblisi 6sh
    -775 Sevastopol Settler.
    -750 Odessa Settler
    -725 Kiev Settler. RB Moscow 7sh, Minsk 1sh
    -700 RB Sevastopol 1sh
    -675 Smolensk Settler. Writing -> Literacy(210). RB Minsk 4sh
    -650 RB St.Pete 2sh, Odessa 2sh, Sevastopol 4sh.
    -625 Sverdlovsk Silk, Tblisi Salt. RB Smolensk 4sh, Yakutsk 4sh, Kiev 2sh.
    -600 Novgorod founded at 110,82,12. Hut -> Masonry (tech cost to 231). RB Odessa 6sh, St.Pete 4sh
    -575 Egyptians start Pyramids. Moscow gems. RB Smolensk 4sh
    -550 RB Moscow 5sh, Tblisi 3sh.
    -525 Krasnoyarsk founded at 91.107,31. RB Moscow 5sh, Odessa 1sh.
    -500 Population at 500K. Riga founded at 102,90,37 (home continent). RB Moscow 5sh, Odessa 5sh.

    stats at -500:
    pop.: .54M; cities: 14; techs: 11, gov: Monarchy, gold: 112; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 3 Settlers, 24 warriors, 2 Trireme, 3 Caravans
    wonders: None
    Footprint: 9 cities in Russia, 3 cities on 31, 2 cities on 12

    Egyptians: No Contact
    Persians: No Contact

    -475 RB Moscow 5sh
    -450 Odessa Wool Literacy -> Republic(264). Population at 600K. Hut 6 Barb Horse
    -425 Sevastopol Food, Minsk Food, Moscow Food. RB Odessa 5sh, Sverdlovsk 5sh.
    -400 Population at 700K
    -375 Tblisi Food. 4 vans to Tblisi. Moscow Gems to Yakutsk for 66G (first delivery). RB Moscow 1sh, Novgorod 6sh, Sevastopol 2sh, Vladivostok 2sh.
    -350 Tblisi builds MPE. Smolensk Copper. St.Pete Food. I am Supreme. Contact Egyptians (5 arrows), Peace, Give them Trade, exchange maps. Contact Persians (4 arrows), they demand literacy, I give it to them along with Monarchy and Trade, exchange maps. RB Sverdlovsk 5sh, Moscow 5sh, Novgorod 4sh, Odessa 5sh.
    -325 RB Moscow 5sh, Novgorod 6+10sh, Sevastopol 2sh
    -300 Novgorod Settler. Sverdlovsk food. Population at 800K. 4 vans to Sverdlovsk. RB Moscow 5sh, Sevastopol 6sh, Smolensk 2sh, Tblisi 2sh
    -275 Republic -> Mysticism (299). Yakutsk Copper. Sverdlovsk Colossus. RB Smolensk 6sh, St.Pete 1sh. Contract Persians, trade Republic for Mysticism (tech cost to 350), exchange maps.
    -250 Start Philosophy. Moscow Wine. REVOLUTION
    -225 Persian Gov't overthrown. Russian Republic established. Rostov founded at 85,115,31. Smolensk Copper to Sverdlovsk for 76G. Odessa Wool to Vladivostok for 80G. Contact Egyptians trade Literacy for Polytheism, Republic for Pottery (tech cost to 432), exchange maps. RB Moscow 5sh+warrior, Novgorod 1sh+warrior. Smolensk 3sh+warrior, Riga 5sh+warrior, Sevastopol warrior, Smolensk 3sh+warrior, St.Pete 5sh+warrior, Sverdlovsk 1sh+warrior+5sh+warrior+5sh, Tblisi 9sh+warrior+5sh+warrior, Yakutsk 5sh+warrior+5sh, Kiev warrior+3sh, Krasnoyarsk 2sh+warrior+5sh, Minsk 6sh+warrior+5sh+warrior+5sh
    -200 Egyptian Gov't overthrown. Persian Monarchy established. Tblisi food. Kiev food. Moscow Wine to Yakutsk for 90g. Hut -> Math (tech cost to 459). RB Sevastopol 4sh.
    -175 Egyptian Republic established. Sevastopol food
    -150 Philosophy->Monotheism->Astronomy(589). Smolensk Settler, disorder. RB Smolensk warrior, St.Pete 2sh+warrior+5sh. Kiev warrior
    -125 Sverdlovsk food, Odessa Diplomat. RB Tblisi 5sh. 4 vans to Sverdlovsk.
    -100 Egyptians discover Seafaring. Sverdlovsk builds Hanging Gardens. Minsk Dye. T/L/S to 0/6/4.
    -75 WLTCD in 8 cities
    -50 Population at 1 millions. RB Moscow 1sh, Novgorod 1sh+warrior, Sverdlovsk 2sh+warrior+5sh, Tblisi 7sh.
    -25 WLTCD ends in 7 cities (Only Sverdlovsk still celebrating). St.Pete Dye. Minsk Dye to Krasnoyarsk for 60g. RB Vladivostok 3sh+warrior+warrior, Minsk 3sh+warrior+5sh
    +1 Memphis builds Pyramids, Persians acquire Masonry. WLTCD in Riga, Vladivostok Settler, Tblisi Settler, Moscow Settler. Astrakhan founded at 98,84,12. RB Vladivostok warrior+5sh+warrior+5sh, Moscow wariror+5sh

    stats at +1:
    pop.: 1.29M; cities: 16; techs: 19, gov: Republic, gold: 122; trade routes: 10D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 6 settlers, 5 warriors, 3 Trireme, 1 Diplomat, 2 caravans
    wonders: HG, Colossus, MPE
    Footprint: 9 cities in Russia, 4 cities on 31, 3 cities on 12

    Egyptians: 7 cities, 13 techs, 224 gold, Republic, Peace, Enthusiastic, Pyramids
    Persians: 5 cities, 13 techs, 322 gold, Monarchy, Peace, Enthusiastic
  5. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Jan 14, 2011
    Not so thorough a log as haleewud.

    Will found Moscow one square away at (103,103).
    Other settler will build one road en route to next City.
    No fussing with black clicking.

    3950- Moscow founded. Start CB.
    3800- Found St Petersburg (102,98).
    3550- Discover CB --> Alphabet.
    3150- Moscow builds settlers.
    3050- Found Kiev (106,102).
    2950- Discover Alphabet --> CoL.
    2850- StPetersburg builds settlers.
    2650- Kiev warrior pops hut - mercenary (Kiev chariot).
    2550- Found Minsk (103,93).
    2400- Moscow builds settlers.
    2350- Discover CoL--> Monarchy
    2050- StP builds settlers. Found Smolensk (103,111).
    1850- Kiev builds settlers. Discover Monarchy --> MM. Become Monarchy.
    1600- Minsk and Moscow build settlers.
    1550- Found Odessa.
    1400- Found Sevastopol
    1350- Barbs near Kiev - warriors killed attacking them.
    1250- Discover MM --> Currency. Wounded Barb Archers die attacking Kiev.
    1050- Found Tbilisi.
    1000- Found Sverdlovsk.

    stats at -1000:
    pop.: .18M; cities: 8; techs: 6, gov: Monarchy, gold: 32; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 5 settlers, 6 warriors, 1 chariot, 1 trireme
    wonders: None
    Footprint: 8 cities in Russia

    Egyptians: No Contact
    Persians: No Contact

    950- Yakutsk founded on continent 45. City no 10 - causes Smolensk to be less happy.
    925- Found Vladivostock - it is immediately unhappy.
    Found Novgorod - it too.
    900- Discover Currency --> Trade. Found Krasnoyarsk.
    775- Egyptians start Pyramids. Pop hut continent 12 - horsemen.
    725- Discover Trade --> Writing.
    700- Found Riga on continent 31. Found Rostov on continent 12.
    675- Pop hut - Horseback Riding.
    650- Found Astrakhan on continent 42.
    500- Discover Writing --> Pottery (10 turns)
    425- Minsk completes Marco Polo.
    Receptive Egyptians - swap Trade to get Pottery. Give Monarchy. Get map. They are far away.
    Unco-op Persians.
    Found Yarkov (same landmass as Yakutsk)
    400- Start on Seafaring.
    350- Pop hut - literacy.
    300- Found Grozny.
    250- Egyptians nearly complete Pyramids. Pop hut - Mercenary elephants.
    225- Thebes (Egypt) builds Pyramids.
    Odessa builds Hanging Gardens.
    Found Dnepropetrovsk, on hill 4-special, quite far away from homeland (continent 12.)
    200- Pop hut - (in Grozny zone) - elephants.
    Pop hut on island - Maikop, it is 1-square out from 3-special.
    Emissary Persians (receptive) - give Literacy, get map. They are nearer than Egyptians but it's a big map. In fact they are present on NW of large continent 12.
    175- Emissary Egyptians - swap Literacy to get Mysticism.
    125- Pop hut - 50g. Found Kursk.
    100- Egyptians start Colossus.
    75- Discover Seafaring --> Philosophy.
    25- Elephant meets Persian horse - we demand tribute - declined.
    AD 1 - Odessa builds Colossus.

    stats at +1:
    pop.: 0.85M; cities: 21; techs: 14, gov: Monarchy, gold: 29; trade routes: none; cost/turn:0
    units: 12 settlers, 44 military, 4 trireme, 1 diplomat, 5 caravans
    wonders: HG, Colossus, MPE
    Footprint: 12 cities in Russia, 1 on 31, 4 cities on 12, 2 on 45, 1 on 42, 1 on 29.

    Egyptians: 6 cities, 11 techs, 457 gold, Monarchy, Peace, Enthusiastic, Pyramids
    Persians: 6 cities, 13 techs, 316 gold, Despotism, Peace, Cordial.
  6. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Mar 21, 2011
    This game is terrible! :cry:
    It's past 300 AD and I am still in Monarchy, domestic offshore vans payed off 40 and 36 gold so far and evereything seems to be going sooooooo slowly this time. Not sure if I will (or even want to) finish, I really, really wish I had gone for OCC, there would have been a nice 3-special-on-forest-for-size-1-site...
    However, seeing your stats at 1 AD, I'm not so much behind anyway. I'll post some log soon.
  7. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    I am planing on switching to Republic in +220 so do not despair. However, as you can see haleewud changed before +1. But he had to sacrifice in expansion to do that. At +1 he has 16 cities to Inkerman's 21 and my 24.(It is so odd for me to be in the position of having the most number of cities. Where is Peaster?) Looking forward to see your log soon.
    That is what happens without a key civ.
    That is where I built Moscow. And I am sooooo glad I did not do OCC. None of the 3 speicals were particularly good for OCC: grass-covered pheasant/buffalo, Silk, and Fish. OCC would have taken even longer in terms of game turns. The rivals are unlikely to be much help with techs and even in OCC it was unlikely that one could stay at least powerful which is the only rating with a key civ. With perfectionist Persians and nonexpansionist Egyptians staying at #3 would have not been very likely in OCC. Furthermore, these guys are so far away that trade would have come pretty late in the game and in OCC you do not have your own cities to trade with. Surely 36 and 40 are petty trade revenues, but you are in Monarchy and your cities are small. I have deliberately stayed away from trade for that reason directing my energy toward expansion and wonders instead. I am planning on delivering 3-4 domestic vans right after becoming a Republic.

    I have never been anticipating Republic so much. Many of my cities are up to 2 black heads. At some point I was running 40% lux in Monarchy just to be able to keep things running.
  8. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Date Notes

    -4000 Both settlers move.
    -3900 Rivals are Egyptians and Persians. This means only the least powerful nation has a key civ. None horse from hut. Moscow founded at 3 special location: 104, 102. Will go for size 1 settler. First discovery is at 12 beakers.
    -3850 -> Alphabet
    -3350 Alphabet -> Code of Laws
    -3200 Size 1 settler produced.
    -3050 St. Petersburg founded. It is the only non-capital city in the world.
    -2600 Code of Laws -> Burial.
    -2450 Kiev founded.
    -2050 Minsk founded.

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.06M; Cities: 4; Techs: 3; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 7; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 1 None Settler, 1 None Horse
    Goals: Monarchy, Trade, Marco
    Egyptian: No contact
    Persian: No contact

    -1900 Burial -> Monarchy.
    -1850 Smolensk founded.
    -1450 Monarchy -> Mapmaking. Monarchy established. T3L0S7
    -1300 Odessa founded.
    -1200 Sevastopol founded.
    -1100 Resource seed is 27.
    -1050 Tblisi founded.
    -1000 Mapmaking -> Currency.

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.16M; Cities: 8; Techs: 6; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 6; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 3 Settlers (1 None), 6 warriors, 1 None Horse
    Goals: Trade, Marco, settling nearby islands
    Egyptian: No contact
    Persian: No contact

    -0975 Sverdlovsk founded.
    -0950 First boat produced.
    -0900 Yakutsk founded.
    -0825 Currency -> Trade.
    -0800 25g from hut.
    -0700 Elephant from hut.
    -0675 Trade -> Writing. T7L0S3
    -0650 Archer from hut.
    -0625 Advanced tribe founds Vladivostok on island 31. It will have to be relocated as it is attached to the south pole. Offshore cities Novgorod and Krasnoyarsk founded.
    -0550 Riga founded.
    -0525 Rostov founded as the final city in homeland.
    -0500 Rasht founded.

    Status at -0500
    Population: 0.48M; Cities: 16; Techs: 8; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 18; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 3 Settlers (1 None), 20 warriors, 1 Archers, 1 None Horse, 1 Elephant, 2 Trireme, 1 van
    Footprint: 11 cities in homeland, 2 on 31, 2 on 12, 1 on 45.
    Goals: Marco, Hanging Gardens
    Egyptian: No contact
    Persian: No contact

    -0475 Kharkov founded.
    -0450 Advanced tribe founds Grozny.
    -0425 T6L4S0
    -0400 Marco built. 50g, Nomad from huts. T4L4S2
    Trade, Monarchy, Mapmaking, Laws -> Egyptian (5) -> Writing, Pottery, Masonry, peace, maps
    Writing, Trade, Monarchy -> Persian (4) -> Mysticism, Polytheism, peace
    -0375 -> Construction. Masonry -> Persian -> maps.
    -0350 50g from hut.
    -0325 Nomad from hut.
    -0250 Shush founded. First black heads appear.
    -0225 Elephant from hut.
    -0200 Hanging Gardens built. T5L0S5
    -0150 Maikop founded.
    -0125 Construction -> Literacy. Dezful founded. Seafaring from hut.
    -0100 Kuibyshev founded.
    -0025 Magnitogorsk founded.
    +0001 Abskun founded.

    Status at +1
    Population: 0.89M; Cities: 24; Techs: 15; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 3; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Marco
    Units: 12 Settlers (3 None), 28 warriors, 1 Archers, 1 None Horse, 2 Elephant, 4 Trireme, 1 Diplomat, 4 vans
    Footprint: 11 cities in homeland, 4 on 31, 4 on 12, 2 on 27, 1 on each of 42, 43, 45.
    Goals: Philosophy, Michelangelo, Republic
    Egyptian: 5 cities, 12 techs;
    Persian: 4 cities, 14 techs;
  9. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Jan 14, 2011
    Peaster knows what he is doing...

    I expect haleewud is happy because he's finished.
  10. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Feb 16, 2010
    Inkerman, I think you have a slight error in your first log. At -1000 you state that you have 8 cities. But then at -950 (the next line), Yakutsk is founded as the 10th city. Did you do your summary at the beginning of the turn and then found Sverdlovsk (the 9th city name) after that?
  11. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Jan 14, 2011
    Hi haleewud,
    You are right I think that must be what happened. I often make the statistical notes right at the start of a turn so that I don't forget. So if the stats were at the end of the 1000BC turn it would be 9 cities.
  12. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Mar 21, 2011
    Time to move on (to #133)...

    Here is my log:

    initial thoughts & blackclicking:
    -moderately sized island
    -some islands nearby within trireme's reach -> no LH needed (probably)
    -OCC possible
    -bronze as starting tech => direct path to monarchy available
    -option: use forest for size1-settler, build road with other settler to city-site to get 3 early cities

    -4000 move settlers > special under grass
    -3950 Egypt is in
    -3900 Persia is in: => Worst player has Persia as key-civ, NONE-Archer from hut, Leningrad (switch names since we're playing Lenin) founded at 105,103, start settler
    -3850 Researching alphabet
    -3350 Alphabet -> Burial
    -3200 Home island uncovered, size1-settler built
    -3150 Moskau founded at northern coast on 3-special-site
    -3100 Kiev founded north of Leningrad

    Stats at 3000:
    pop: 30k, cities: 3 techs: 2
    plan: settle island, get monarchy, expand to islands 12 & 27

    -2800 Burial -> Laws
    -2150 Laws -> Mon
    -2000 Smolensk founded at western edge of continent
    -1650 Monarchy (revolt & establ.) -> mapmaking
    -1500 Smolensk destroyed by barb archer, wonder started in Leningrad
    -1350 None-Archer in Moskau survives barb attack
    -1050 Mapmak. -> Currency; Sevastopol, Tblisi founded
    -1000 Sverdlovsk founded

    -950 trireme sets sails, hut on cont. 12: Archer
    -900 Barb trireme spottet :(
    -850 Barb Archer on cont.12m, Yakutsk founded on cont. 12, Chariot from hut
    -800 Curr. -> Trade
    -775 Another Chariot from hut
    -700 Vladivostok founded, riot factor is on now, chariot pops hut with 7 horses, kills one
    (chariot lost)
    -600 Trade -> Writing
    -550 Egyptians start HG (both are doing Pyramids already, 115s in Leningrad MPE)
    -525 Explore cont. 27, New Smolensk founded
    -500 hut on 27: Barbs!! ouch
    (Chariot lost)
    -475 Barbs on 12
    -450 Krasnoyarsk founded
    (Thebes Pyramids)
    -425 Riga founded
    -375 MPE built in Leningrad > NO AI has writing; hail Egyptians, give trade, get pottery, peace, give monarchy, maps, demand tribute, war
    Persians: give some techs, get myst., peace, maps
    Sevastopol starts HG and gets 4 vans
    -350 HG built (Egypt to GW), Hail Egypt, give Bronze, peace, maps, Persia doing Math
    -300 Another ouch! Barb Archer kills Vladivostok's phalanx, warrior almost kills Archer
    (Valdivostok razed -2g)
    -250 Writing (right after Egypt had it) -> Literacy, Rostov founded
    -200 Astrakhan founded (far into island 12)
    -175 Wladiwostok replaced;
    Some planning: distance Persepolis 63 steps from New Smolensk, 36 from Astrakhan, requiering 21/12 ships for chain, 13/8 with Magellan
    Best SSC would be Moskau (2 whales, 1 fish, all grass covered), let AI build Colossus for trading, priority for Michelangelo
    -150 Hail Persia, give writing, get poly (should allow philo next)
    -25 Lit. -> Philo; Issus founded, send 2 vans on their long, long way
    1 AD Cunaxa founded on cont. 27

    Stats at 1 AD:
    pop.: 650k; cities: 16; techs: 13, gov: Mon, gold: 42, Trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:0
    units: 4 settler, 15 warriors, 2 phalanx, 1 Archer, 2 boats, 3 vans, 2 dip
    wonders: MPE, HG

    Egypt: Enthusiastic, peace, 6 cities, 11 techs, Pyramids
    Persia: Enthusiastic, peace, 5 cities, 13 techs

    20 Egypt colossus, Persia Math -> Astro
    40 hut: HBR (could have gotten it from AI, at least no Barbs this time)
    120 Cremona (27) founded, hut near Astrakhan: nomads
    160 Omsk founded, gift curr. to Egypt
    220 Philo -> Mono -> Republic, Capua founded (I was planning to turn cont. 27 to C-town-land anyway), hut: Archer
    240 Oimjakon founded
    260 Odessa builds Michelangelo's Chapel
    280 first domestic offshore van: 40g; Perm, Tobolsk founded, Crusader from hut, raise lux to trigger celebrations in Odessa for next delivery
    300 Wow, 36g...
    320 more nomads from hut
    340 NONE Archer in northern 12, nomad on c-island
    360 Persian-egyptian war, Persia Astro and switch GW to Copernicus, no tech-trading
    380 Persia about to finish Copernicus! Republic (establ.)->Wheel

    So two turn before completing their Great Wall the Persians discover astronomy! They have been accumulating wonder shields in Susa for as long as I can tell (from LH to Colossus to GW) and they were trying for 17 turns to unravel the mysteries of the stars.
    Without Copernicus and a decent SSC, there is no point in carrying on... :(
  13. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Jan 14, 2011
    I'm still going with this one.

    Here's the approximate log to 500.

    20- Egyptians - swap seafaring to them for masonry.
    Persians - get Maths, Iron working, Polytheism, Warrior Code
    give Mysticism, Trade, Seafaring, Monarchy and Pottery.
    Van, Moscow-Astrakhan, Wool, overseas but not so far, for 48g.
    40- Pop hut near Persians - 25g.
    60- Maikop builds settlers, disbands.
    Give currency to Egyptians.
    80- Pop hut - nomads. Refound Maikop in correct location.
    140- Egypt develop Construction. Emissary - get Construction, give Iron Working.
    Pop hut - legion.
    Found Magnitogorsk, on continent 27.
    160- Odessa erects our first building, a marketplace.
    StPeterburg builds Lighthouse.
    Found Uralsk, rename Riga to Uiga.
    Found Kazan.
    Found Vologda.
    Pop hut - Feudalism.
    180- Pop hut - horses.
    200- Persians develop the Wheel. Give Construction, get the Wheel.
    Found Murmansk.
    220- Odessa builds Temple.
    Found Vitebsk.
    240- Found Batum.
    320- Pop hut - mercenary legion.
    340- Discover Philosophy --> Monotheism --> Astronomy.
    Van Smolensk-Maikop, Gems (good cargo, fair distance and overseas, but cities are small), 60g.
    Van Tbilisi-Dnepropetrovsk, Wool, for 48g.
    Pop hut - barbs - no escape.
    Pop hut - City of Tiflis on continent 2.
    Pop hut - 50g.
    Give Philosophy to Egyptians.
    380- Egyptians nearly done Great Library.
    400- Thebes builds Great Library. Persians develop Philosophy.
    Give wheel to Egyptians.
    420- Odessa builds library.
    Give polytheism to Egyptians.
    440- Persians fighting barbs - kill two lots but lose a city.
    500- Found Bryansk. Pile vans into wonder production. Give Egyptians Maths.

    stats at AD500
    Cities: 30. Population: 1,690,000. Monarchy. 24 techs. 3 domestic routes. 8 buildings.
    Wonders; Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Marco Polo, LH. Others: Pyramids, GL.
    Units: 12 Settler, 39 Warrior, 1 Phalanx, 7 Pikemen, 1 Horse, 1 Chariot, 2 Ele, 7 Trireme, 3 Dip, 9 Vans, 1 Explorer.

    Egyptians: (5) Enthusiastic, Peace, 8 cities, 19 techs, 298g.
    Persians: (4) Cordial, Peace, 7 cities, 21 techs, 404g.

    On the main topic of discussion - I might become a republic in the next set.
  14. CharlieChuck

    CharlieChuck Chieftain

    Feb 6, 2007
    I'm getting close to finishing but turns are taking a very long time now. Didn't keep a log but I had 17 cities at 40AD and was researching Republic then (though I think it took a bit longer before I got it and changed). Have 15 techs and Marcos was built.
  15. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Wow! That is some mighty bad Barbarian luck. Glancing at this one would think this was a Raging Hordes game instead of a Roving Bands one. In contrast I had no barbarian encounters before year +1 and only one since. I managed to ship in a diplomat in time and bribed both the archer and the trireme it came on.
    What is a C-town?
    Certainly bad luck but I would disagree with your decision to quit. This is not a normal game. With no key civ, tech cost is sky high and Copernicus is not as much help as usual. If you are planning to win by conquest, Copernicus hardly matters. If you are planning on winning by space ship, as I am, Copernicus is not as detrimental as it usually is. My own game plan to counter the effect of no key civ is:
    1. After key techs (monrachy, trade, republic, and mono) and before invention turn science to minimal and hope to get more techs from huts. I am exploring with as many units as I can.
    2. Rely on massive trade after invention. Not that trade is not big in other games. But here the caps are higher. Mid game trade from homeland to the rivals should pay pretty well.
    3. Use the higher trade payoffs for more rapidly building up infrastructure.

    The space race is bound to start later than usual but I do not forsee big challenges winning the race.

    We play the game for fun. Winning despite a streak of bad luck provides its own distinct satisfaction.
  16. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Mar 21, 2011
    I guess it wouldn't have been a problem to win the space race, but it would take so much longer without an SSC, especially until all was set up for big trade (Corporation, railroad through continent#12 and shipchains to the AI). And by then it wouldn't be anywhere near "competetive" for GOTM, so I rather chose to spend more effort on the next game.

    It just meant I was gonna let all city-names start with "C" on that island.
  17. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Jan 14, 2011
    520- StPetersburg builds Michaelangelo.
    600- Discover Astronomy --> Medicine (as Persians are doing Republic.)
    pop hut - Bridge Building.
    640- Van, Smolensk-Susa(Persian), Dye, for 192g.
    Found Tula.
    Pop hut - Republic. Give it to Persians, and therefore Egyptians (GL.)
    660- Pop hut - Kalinin, near Egyptians, but different continent and not on coast.
    Van Rostov-Susa(Persian), Cloth (undemanded), for 72g.
    Van Kiev-Persepolis(Persian), Copper, for 368g.
    720- Odessa builds Copernicus. Discover Medicine --> Banking.
    Van Kursk-Maikop, Silk, for 48g.
    Van Dnepropetrovsk-Pasargadae(Persian), Hides, for 168g.
    740- Persians demand bridge building - we decline.
    780- Bribe Egypt ele approaching Kalinin for 110g.
    800- Comment: add some buildings and then have republic to grow / increase science.
    820- Van, Sverdlovsk-Batum, Gems, for 78g.
    860- Persians have nearly done Great Wall.
    Found Yaroslavl.
    880- Susa builds Great Wall. Egyptians change to Oracle.
    Discover Banking --> University.
    Van, Odessa-Pi-Ramesses(Egyptian), Dye, for 800g. (c 2/3 of discovery.)
    pop hut - Krasnodovsk (not a good site.)
    920- Revolution.
    940- Egyptians develop University.
    Sevastopol completes Sun Tzu.
    Become a republic.
    Emissary Egyptians - swap Banking to get University. Give Astronomy.
    Found Yato.
    960- Start on Theology.
    21 cities celebrate.
    Found Issus.
    980- Give Bridge Building to Egyptians.
    Discover Theology --> Theory of Gravity.
    Van Odessa-Susa(Persian), silk, for 924g.
    1000- Persians develop Engineering.
    Odessa builds University.
    Persians are too busy on KRC to swap.
    Found Kaxa.
    Pop hut - 50g.

    stats at AD1000

    Cities: 37. Population: 5,790,000. Republic. 31 techs. Several domestic and foreign routes. 37 cost for buildings.
    Wonders; HG, Colossus, LH, MPE, Sun Tzu, Michaelangelo, Copernicus.
    Others have: Pyrs, GL, GW.
    Units: 15 Settler, 29 Warrior, 11 Pikemen, 1 Horse, 1 Chariot, 3 Ele, 12 Trireme, 6 Dip, 37 Vans, 1 Explorer.
    Egyptians: (5) Enthusiastic, Peace, 8 cities, 25 techs, 215g.
    Persians: (4) Enthusiastic, Peace, 9 cities, 23 techs, 537g.
  18. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    +0020 Anzali and Fuman founded. 50g from hut.
    +0040 First structure, a Temple in the SSC, is built.
    +0060 Murmansk founded.
    +0080 Egyptians build Pyramids. Persians switch to Colossus and are almost done. Fortunately my vans are ready. Shushtar and Daghestan founded. Literacy from hut. Literacy to Persians and Egyptians.
    +0100 -> Philosophy. Colossus built. Persians switch to Great Library.
    +0140 Chechen founded. T4L0S6.
    +0160 Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Republic. 50g from hut.
    +0180 Bryansk and Tula founded. Crusader, Republic, and Banking from huts. Republic -> Egyptians.
    +0200 -> Math. Ahvaz founded. Revolution started. T2L6S2
    +0220 Persians build Great Library. Republic established. Yaroslavl founded. T2L7S1
    +0240 Barbarian ship near Chechen. All six cities above size 3 celebrate. Advanced tribe founds Krasnovodsk. Abadan founded.
    +0280 Barbarians park near Chechen but do not disembark. One city joins and 4 drop out of celebration. T1L8S1
    +0300 Barbarian archer lands next to Chechen. Domestic offshore deliveries for 128, 160, 120, 84. Astarakhan founded. Barbarians Archer and Trireme bribed for 61 and 82. 5 barbarian horsemen from hut. Elephant kills one. T2L4S4.
    +0320 Barbarians kill my elephant. All celebrations end.
    +0340 Math -> University. 25g from hut.
    +0360 Michelangelo's built. Advanced tribe founds Kish on island 29. Horseback riding from hut. T5L4S1. Monotheism, Mysticism -> Egyptian -> Wheel, no alliance.
    +0380 Wide spread celebrations. Dnep founded.
    +0420 Domestic delivery for 126.
    +0440 PolDokhtar founded.
    +0460 SSC Kiev reaches size 12. Kursk founded. Domestic deliveries for 150, 64.
    +0480 Domestic deliveries for 144. Andimeshk founded.
    +0500 Domestic deliveries for 132. 50g from hut.

    Status at +500
    Population: 4.5M; Cities: 42; Techs: 23; Government: Republic
    Gold: 207; Cost: 9; Trade routes: 18D0F;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Marco, Colossus, Michelangelo
    Units: 19 Settlers (3 None), 18 warriors, 2 Archers, 1 None Horse, 1 Elephant, 1 Crusader, 8 Trireme, 2 Diplomats, 11 vans
    Footprint: 11 cities in homeland, 6 on 31, 10 on 12, 7 on 27, 3 on each of 43and 45, 1 on each of 42 and 29.
    Goals: Exploration for huts and a passage to rivals.
    Egyptian: 6 cities, 19 techs; Pyramids
    Persian: 5 cities, 18 techs; Great Library

    +0540 Barbarian Trireme kills my furthest advanced trireme with archer on board. Uralsk founded.
    +0560 University -> Medicine. Domestic delivery to SSC for 408. Domestic deliveries for 138.
    +0600 Domestic deliveries for 174.
    +0620 Domestic deliveries for 112.
    +0640 Egyptians build King Richards. Khoramshahr founded.
    +0660 Behbahan founded. Warrior Code from hut.
    +0700 Medicine -> Engineering. University -> Egyptian -> Engineering. Republic -> Persian -> Iron Working. Kazan founded. Domestic deliveries for 228, 276, 128, 56. Economics from hut.
    +0720 -> Chemistry. Domestic deliveries for 132, 190. Vologda founded. Legion from hut.
    +0740 Domestic deliveries for 180.
    +0760 Chemistry -> Sanitation. Domestic deliveries for 148. Vitebsk founded.
    +0780 Domestic deliveries for 300, 80, 162.
    +0800 Domestic deliveries for 250, 378. Kharg founded. Nomad from hut.
    +0820 Sanitation -> Astronomy. Domestic deliveries for 204, 248, 192.
    +0840 Batum founded. Domestic deliveries for 234. 50g from hut.
    +0860 Domestic deliveries for 276, 132.
    +0880 Astronomy -> Navigation. Domestic deliveries for 372, 340, 92, 250. Nomad from hut.
    +0900 Domestic deliveries for 196, 148. Theory of Gravity from hut.
    +0920 Advanced tribe founds Spahan.
    +0940 Navigation -> Bridge Building. Domestic deliveries for 85.
    +0960 Domestic deliveries for 125, 42, 52.
    +0980 Bridge Building from hut. Domestic deliveries for 177, 78.
    +1000 -> Physics. Crusader from hut.

    Status at +1000
    Population: 20.8M; Cities: 51; Techs: 35; Government: Republic
    Gold: 4; Cost: 142; Trade routes: 81D0F;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Marco, Colossus, Michelangelo
    Units: 29 Settlers (5 None), 19 defenders, 4 fast units, 8 Trireme, 2 Diplomats, 41 vans, 2 Explorers
    Footprint: 11 cities in homeland, 7 on 31, 14 on 12, 9 on 27, 3 on each of 43and 45, 1 on each of 23, 30, 42, and 29.
    Goals: Exploration for huts. Shakespeare, Copernicus, Magellan, Newton, Leo.
    Egyptian: 8 cities, 26 techs; Pyramids, King Richards
    Persian: 5 cities, 30 techs; Great Library
  19. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Feb 16, 2010
    +20 Persians acquire Banking and Construction. 2 Settlers.
    +40 1 Settler.
    +60 Egyptians Banking. 2 commodity vans, 1 settler, 22g spent on IPRBs.
    +80 Astronomy->Seafaring(820). Contact Egyptians, trade Philo for Seafaring (tech cost to 903), exchange maps. Contact Persians, exchange maps. Kharkov founded at 78,66,12. 11g spent on IPRBs.
    +100 Start Banking. Grozny founded at 89,97,27. Contact Persians trade Philo for Banking (tech cost to 946). 11g spent on IPRBs.
    +120 Start Construction. Dnepropetrovsk founded at 106,77,12. Sverdlovsk Salt to Tblisi for 128G. Contact Persians trade Seaf for Constr (tech cost to 989). 58g spent on IPRB.
    +140 Pasargadae builds Great Library, Start Wheel. 1 food van, 1 commodity van, 1 settler. 54g spent on IPRBS.
    +160 32g spent on IPRBs.
    +180 1 commodity van, 1 settler 15g spent on IPRBs.
    +200 Moscow Silk to Sverdlovsk for 156g. 4g spent on IPRBs.
    +220 2 Food vans. 12g spent on IPRBs.
    +240 Barbs near undefended Dnepropetrovsk (2 horse, 1 leader). 1 commodity van. 95g spent on IPRBs.
    +260 Egyptians acquire Mysticism. Dnepropetrovsk captured by barbs. 1 Diplomat. Kill Barb Leader (50g). Vladivostok Dye to Smolensk for 96g. 13g spent on IPRBS.
    +280 Wheel -> Engineering(1080). 1 food van. Maikop founded at 94,82,12. 15g spent on IPRBs.
    +300 1 commodity van, 2 food vans. Bribe Dnepropetrovsk from barbs for 52g. 70g spent on IPRBs.
    +320 Hut -> Crusader. Novgorod Beads to Moscow for 108g. 62g spent on IPRBs.
    +340 Barbs seen off coast near Kiev. 1 settler. Population exceeds 2 million. Yakutsk Copper to Alexandria (first foreign delivery) for 344g. 101g spent on IPRBs.
    +360 Barbs land near Kiev. 1 commodity van, 1 food van. Kill Barb archer near Kiev. Rostov Copper to Kiev for 128G. Sevastopol Gems to Novgorod for 186g. 12g spent on IPRBS.
    +380 Engineering -> Invention(1125). 1 food vzn. 176g spent on IPRBs.
    +400 Sverdlovsk build Library (1st city improvement). 22g spent on IPRBs.
    +420 Egyptians develop Medicine, start Shake's. 3 commodity vans. 8 vans to Moscow. 136g spent on IPRBS.
    +440 1 commodity van, 1 food van. Moscow build Michaelangelo's Catherdral. Hut -> Advanced Tribe Kursk at 119,73,12. 22g spent on IPRBs.
    +460 WLTCD in 15 cities. 171g spent on IPRBs.
    +480 Egyptians start Great Wall. Population exceeds 3 million. 56g spent on IPRbs.
    +500 Persians develop Pottery. WLTCD ends in 4 cities. 1 commodity van. Population exceeds 4 million. Rostov Gems to Odessa for 228g. 113g spent on IPRBs.

    stats at +500:
    pop.: 4.029M; cities: 21; techs: 25, gov: Republic, gold: 207; trade routes: 23D1F; cost/turn:4
    units: 9 settlers, 4 warriors, 2 horsemen, 2 crusdares, 4 Trireme, 1 Diplomat, 9 caravans
    wonders: HG, Colossus, MPE, Mike's
    Footprint: 9 cities in Russia, 4 cities on 31, 7 cities on 12, 1 on 27

    Egyptians: 8 cities, 17 techs, 262 gold, Republic, Peace, Enthusiastic, Pyramids
    Persians: 8 cities, 18 techs, 534 gold, Monarchy, Peace, Enthusiastic, Great Library

    +520 Egyptian-Persian War. Egyptians get Construction from Persian. WLTCD starts in 3 cities, ends in 9 cities. 2 commodity vans, 2 settlers. Kuibyshev founded at 95,73,12. 14g spent on IPRBs.
    +540 3 food vans, 1 settler. 10g spent on IPRBs.
    +560 Invention -> Navigation(1170). 1 food van. 67g spent on IPRBs.
    +580 1 commodity van. 62g spent on IPRBs.
    +600 Egyptians develop Math (Persians get it from GL). Egyptians abandon Shake's. 1 commodity van, 1 food van, 1 diplomat. Contact Egyptians, Trade Invention for Medicine (Persians get both from GL) St.Pete Dye to Heliopolis for 480g. Magnitogorsk founded at 85,67,12. 30g spent on IPRBs.
    +620 Sverdlovsk builds Copernicus' Observatory, 1 food van, 1 settler. 33g spent on IPRBs.
    +640 Navigation -> Sanitation (1288). 2 commodity vans. Vladivostok Salt to Smolensk for 76g. Moscow Cloth (U) to Tarsus for 68g. 95g spent on IPRBs.
    +660 2 food vans, 1 settler. Population exceeds 5 million. Bribe Persian horse for 76g. Rostov Gold to Yakutsk for 120g. Uralsk founded at 82,110,31. 105g spent on IPRBs.
    +680 2 commodity vans. 44g spent on IPRBs.
    +700 1 commodity van, 1 food van. Minsk Silk to Novgorod for 126G. 39g spent on IPRBs.
    +720 Persians start Leo's. St.Pete builds Leonardo's Workshop (Persians abandon). 3 commodity vans. Kazan founded at 100,94,37. 61gg spent on IPRBs. T/L/S = 0/5/5.
    +740 Sanitation -> University(1334). 1 commodity van, 3 food vans, 1 settler. Vologda founded at 81,81,27. Murmansk founded at 76,58,12. Bribe Persian Phalanx for 73g. 17g spent on IPRBs.
    +760 1 commodity van, 1 food van. Bribe Persian settler for 296g. Vladivostok Beads to Riga for 78g, Sverdlovsk Gold to Astrakhan for 174g. 34g spent on IPRBs.
    +780 1 food van. 37g spent on IPRBs.
    +800 Persians demand that I withdraw from Tarsus? OK. 1 food van. Vitebsk founded at 84,90,27. 4g spent on IPRBs.
    +820 University -> Chemistry(). 2 food vans. Batum founded at 88,71,12.
    +840 1 food van. Grozny Coal to Sverdlovsk for 137g. Novgorod Salt to Rostov for 98g. Riga Silk to Krasnoyarsk for 90g. 23g spent on IPRBs.
    +860 Egyptians develop University (Persian get it from GL). Egyptians change to Shake's. 1 commodity van, 2 food vans. Tiflis founded at 105,71,12.
    +880 Egyptian-Persian war ends. 2 commodity vans, 3 food vans. 6 vans to Sverdlovsk. Hut -> Archer. 4g spent on IPRBs.
    +900 Sverdlovsk builds Shakespeare's Theatre (Egyptians change to GW) 1 commodity van, 1 settler. Chemistry -> Warrior Code(1488). 1 commodity van, 1 settler. Egyptian van appears near Kursk? Contact Egyptians and exchange maps. 8g spent on IPRBs.
    +920 Contact Persians exchange maps. 226g spent on IPRBs.
    +940 Persian Gov't overthrown. 1 commodity van, 1 food van, 1 settler. Hut -> Advanced Tribe - Bryansk at 75,71,29. 25g spent on IPRBs.
    +960 Persian Republic established. 3 food vans. Population exceeds 6 million. 8 vans to Moscow. 4g spent on IPRBs.
    +980 Moscow builds Magellan's Voyage. 1 commodity van, 1 food van. 4g spent on IPRBs.
    +1000 Warrior Code -> Iron Working(1536), 2 commodity vans, 2 food vans. Tblisi Dye to Pi-Ramesses for 528g. 340g spent on IPRBs.

    stats at +1000:
    pop.: 6.72M; cities: 31; techs: 32, gov: Republic, gold: 382; trade routes: 33D4F; cost/turn:6
    units: 9 settlers, 5 warriors, 1 phalanx, 3 horsemen, 2 crusdares, 6 caravels, 2 Diplomat, 22 caravans
    wonders: HG, Colossus, MPE, Mike's, Copes', Magellan, Shake's, Leo's
    Footprint: 10 cities in Russia, 5 cities on 31, 12 cities on 12, 3 on 27, 1 on 25

    Egyptians: 10 cities, 21 techs, 265 gold, Republic, Peace, Enthusiastic, Pyramids
    Persians: 8 cities, 22 techs, 750 gold, Monarchy, Peace, Enthusiastic, Great Library
  20. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Jan 14, 2011
    I have counted my routes so we can have a table of comparative numbers at 1000
    Player              Ali	     haleewud        Inkerman
    #cities total        51            31              37
    - in Russia          11            10              12
    population         20.8          6.72            5.79
    #techs               35            32              31
    buildings cost      142             6              37
    #wonders              4             8               7      
    #settlers            29             9              15
    #army                25            11              46
    #boats                8             6              12
    #vans                41            22              37
    #dips                 2             2               6
    trade             81D0F         33D4F           10D6F
    There's me with too little development and too much army again.

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