GOTM 135 Spoiler

[Major Advantage]

I decided to go chronologically (despite all the enthusiasm about the endless war) and start on #135 instead. The endless was will be on my agenda next week.

I'm not done now, and I'm not sure I will be able to win this one. It's a tough challenge, but maybe not the way Ali intended.

First part of my log:

initial thoughts:
-could use a little less competition on our small island, so clear northern rivals and found on 4-special-location 99,45

-4000 pop hut: horse! Sweet, what I need to go on with the initial plan
-3900 discover Berlin with horse, deny peace, Berlin razed (1g), Germans destroyed
-3850 discover Babylon with settler, deny peace
-3800 raze Babylon (3g), Babylonians destroyed
-3650 meet celtic warrior, sign peace
-3600 London founded at 99,45 (4 specials: wheat, silk, banana, whale(still black)), work silk for size-1-settler
-3550 Researching alph
-3450 Discover Tenochtitlan, deny peace, demand tribute, get Alph! Sweet!
(Aztecs tell me they have writing)
-3400 Researching Laws
-3350 Meet American warrior, sign peace, trade Alph for Burial (they have Masonry), sign peace with Aztecs
-2950 settler built->Warrior
-2800 sign alliance with Celts
-2750 Laws -> Mon.
-2650 Somebody else is working my terrain already... settler settles back into London for size 3
-2500 hail America, trade for Bronze Working so I can start on a wonder (colossus), alliance with America
-2150 Barbs attacking Aztecs
-1750 Mon.->Curr.
-1700 London size 4, revolution
-1650 Monarchy established
-1600 Ask for american gift, get writing
-1150 celtic gift: Mysticism
-1000 American settlers walking around, oviously searching for a spot to settle

Stats at -1000
city size: 5; techs: 8, gold: 78, Trade routes: 0, buildings: -
Celts: Enth, allied
Zulu: No contact
France: No contact
Aztecs: Enth, peace
America: Enth, allied
Mongols: No contact
Germany, Babylon eliminated
plan: Usual OCC-stuff (wonders, city improvements, trade routes)

-825 Currency -> Trade
-725 Colossus built (>settler), american gift: Literacy
-600 settler > Market
-400 Trade -> Philo
-325 Market -> Van
-150 raise luxuries to trigger celebrations
-125 copper (d) >Washington 112g
-100 philo -> Medicine -> Mapmak. Beads (u) -> New York 42g

Stats at 1 AD
city size: 6; techs: 12, gold: 112, Trade routes: 2, buildings: Colossus, Market
Unit: 1 settler, 3 army, 2 vans
Celts: Enth, allied
Zulu: No contact
France: No contact
Aztecs: Enth, peace
America: Enth, allied
Mongols: No contact
Germany, Babylon eliminated
plan: Build Marco, Shakespeare, Copernicus

 

[Inkerman]

Hello,

I am at a similar stage of the game now - enough to read the spoiler now but still with a lot of the game to go. I have a similar position at AD1, and similar concern about the Mongols' great strength.

I settled London in the starting square after getting a military unit from the hut. I thought I would leave whoever was the northern island civs in the hope they might do some buffering. But I did guess it would be good to send someone off to settle the southern continent before too long, and for no reason other than they were in the wrong place at the wrong time that was the Celts. In 325BC and 25BC I got a message the Mongols eliminated their successors (and there was no re-spawn from the latter) so maybe they didn't go south.

Barbarians took the Aztecs out in 1750BC. So my game got the same number of close neighbours as Major_Advantage's game. I allied with all of them, giving techs away a lot and hoping there will be recognition of a common enemy. But the Germans keep fighting the others.

The Babylonians and Germans built replacement cities for the Celt and Aztec ones, but put them inland overlapping my city radius. Given the pirates I can understand that but it is less than ideal.

I didn't do any caravans before 1 AD and the summary is:

Status: size: 6, techs: 14, gold: 14. Colossus. Temple, Marketplace, Library.
1 settler, 2 army.

I am building caravans for wonders, and hope to get MPE and Copernicus.

 

[Inkerman]

Should have mentioned in previous post that Mongols built HG in Karakorum before 1AD.

300- Karakorum builds Lighthouse.

420- We complete MPE.
We are still moderate, and have 15 techs. Before any talking:
Babylonians (5): Enthusiastic, Allied, 241g, 2 city, 16 techs
Germans (4): Enthusiastic, Allied, 219g, 2 cities, 14 techs
Spanish (1): Icy, 162g, 4 cities, 5 techs
Americans (2): Enthusiastic, Allied, 216, 1 city, 15 techs
Mongols (6): Neutral, 1269g, 15 cities, 18 techs

We have continued to give techs to our three allies, so we all have Trade, Maths and Astronomy that Mongols don't have. They have Iron Working, Polytheism, Pottery, Warrior Code, Wheel. Also they have Literacy which Babyls have and we don't.

Give Bronze, Construction, Horseback Riding and CoL to Spanish. This is the most without giving something Mongols don't have. Get maps. They are in south, but have lost Madrid to Barbs, and a Mongol legion is near already.

540- Babylonian caravan from Ur arrives - it generates +5.
560- Complete Copernicus.
600- Mongols acquire Engineering. Mongols land. Germans go to war with them. We decline explorer's demand for 250g so they declare war. Babs also go to war with them. Our chariot deals with the explorer.
620- We discover Philosophy --> Republic --> University. Revolution - become republic.
660- Power table: Mongols/Spanish/Americans/Germans/Babylonians/English.
Dye caravan to Washington for 92g.
800- Kabul builds KRC.
840- London become top city (it is size 11.) Next four of top five are Mongol.
980- Ormuz completes Sun Tzu.

Stats 1000
197g. Inadequate (and spotless.) Republic.
1 settler, 2 warriors, 1 NON chariot, 1 dip. 2 routes. We have 24 techs.
Colossus, MPE, Copernicus.
Mongols have HG, Lighthouse, Sun Tzu, KRC.

Babylonians (4): Enthusiastic, Allied, 447g, 2 city, 21 techs
Germans (3): Enthusiastic, Allied, 280g, 2 cities, 19 techs
Spanish (5): Enthusiastic, Peace, 164g, 7 cities, 13 techs
Americans (1): Enthusiastic, Allied, 343g, 2 cities 19 techs
Mongols (6): Enraged, War, 1352g, 21 cities, 23 techs

Top 5 cities: London, Karakorum, Kabul, Ormuz, Samarkand.

Plans: press on with tech discoveries, continuing to share with allies and Spanish. Get some more trade going.

 

[Major Advantage]

Just got it done. It's been a very close game in the end. Compared to Inkerman's, I think mine was "boosted" big time by my erly eliminations. Zulus respawned on the southern continent and had it all to themselves, so they could expand and prosper rapidly.
I was shocked when they built Copernicus in 200 AD, but couldn't do anything about that.

1AD - 1000AD:

(Zulu start Copernicus, bad news)
120 Marco Polo completed, hail Zulu, they demand gold. Get republic from America, mapmaking from Mongols, alliance with Mongols
Plan: Lower treasury, get Astro from Zulu
140 ouch, forgot to revolt
200 Ulundi builds Copernicus! This will be a tough one... revolution
220 Republic est., wine(d) 144g, get seafaring from Zulu
240 Banking from America
260 Researching HBR, get HBR from Mongols, Math from Zulu
280 Researching University
360 get Construction from Aztecs
(France destroyed by Mongols)
400 Shakespeare built
460 aqaeduct
480 Astro from vikings, 150g from Mongols
500 Zulus gift Monotheism, those cheapskates, 25g from America

Stats at 500 AD
city size: 11; techs: 21, gold: 194, Trade routes: 3, buildings: Colossus, Marco, Shakepeare; Market, Aqaeduct
Units: 1 settler, 1 army

Celts: Enth, allied, 2 cities, 17 techs
Zulu: Enth, allied, 28 cities, 22 techs; Pyr, HG, Michelangelo, Copernicus
Vikings: Cooperative, peace, 1 city, 15 techs
Aztecs: Enth, peace, 1 city, 14 techs
America: Enth, allied, 2 cities, 20 techs
Mongols: Enth, allied, 17 cities, 18 techs; LH
Germany, Babylon, France eliminated
plan: Grow, get Nav, start intercontinental trading

580 Uni -> Nav
680 University built
700 Engineering from Zulu
720 Zulu gift IW
760 Nav -> Sanitation, 100g from Mongols
800 Caravelle sails north with 2 vans, 50g from America
900 Sanitation -> Bridge, copper(d)->Karakorum 436g
920 Why do I keep asking for Zulu gifts? They give Wheel! Sewer built
960 Harbor
980 Bridge -> Physics
1000 Road through silk didn't find critical path to New York, delay coal delivery for a little longer since I want my old trade routes to be sticky

Stats at 1000 AD
city size: 16; techs: 29, gold: 325, Trade routes: 3, buildings: Colossus, Marco, Shakepeare; Market, Library, Aqaeduct, Uni, sewer, harbour
Units: 1 settler, 1 army, 3 vans, 1 boat

Celts: Enth, allied, 2 cities, 21 techs
Zulu: Enth, allied, 31 cities, 32 techs; Pyr, HG, Michelangelo, Copernicus, KRC, Leonardo
Vikings: Cooperative, peace, 3 cities, 18 techs
Aztecs: Enth, peace, 1 city, 28 techs (keycivving)
America: Enth, allied, 2 cities, 30 techs
Mongols: Enth, allied, 18 cities, 26 techs; LH, Sun Tzu
Germany, Babylon, France eliminated
plan: keep on missing Copernicus

 

[Inkerman]

I've just finished too, not successfully, losing to a rival spaceship.

The following comment relates to the final few turns:

Spoiler :

It was close in the sense that I had a spaceship en route to Alpha Centauri, but not so close in the sense of taking the enemy capital before their spaceship landed (see special rule for this game.) I could see 18+ defenders could hold off many more units than I was able to bring to bear. In fact in the turn after landing there were more than 50 defending units in Karakorum!

My congratulations to Major_Advantage on doing better than me.

I would try at least one thing differently if I were tackling this one again (I think I will wait until after the deadline before discussing in this forum.) In retrospect this game might have been a better use for the special go-back-to-the-beginning rule that is being used in GotM 136 - as it is shorter and has some quite special characteristics.

 

[Major Advantage]

Spoiler :

Not to be read until your game is over...

Spoiler :

There might be a little misunderstanding. "Got it done" was supposed to mean that my game is over, with no reference to the actual success. In fact, those &§&"/()§! Zulus beat my spaceship by one year! 1876 vs. 1877...

 

[Inkerman]

The focus through this period was on techs, and sharing with our three neighbours on the Pentagon. The Spanish further establish themselves on the southern continent, and build GL - well at least that doesn't go to the Mongols. Perhaps The Spanish do not grow in quite the same way as the Zulus will have done in the Major's game e.g. none of their eight cities are on the coast.

A curious point: I had MPE and thought the white civ was gone but that was not the case...

Valuable techs we have: Uni, ToG, Medicine (nobody else).
Babs have Monotheism.
Mongols do not have Philosophy.
They do have Engineering, Feudalism, Iron Working, Pottery, Seafaring and the Wheel.

1020- Mongols complete Leonardo.
Build University.
1060- Spanish complete Great Library.
1140- Germans have founded Hamburg on the southern land.
1160- Discover Chemistry --> Pottery.
Swap University to Spanish for Pottery.
Give University to Babylonians.
Give University and Pottery to Germans.
1180- Start on Seafaring.
1260- Mongols take Madrid and Republic from Americans.
Discover Seafaring, Spanish get it from GL. Start on Navigation.
We swap it to Babyls for Banking, Spanish get Banking from GL.
Give Banking to Americans.
1300- Give Seafaring to Americans.
1340- Germans develop Feudalism - Spanish get it from GL.
London builds bank, citizens celebrate - we cut lux rate from 20% to 10%.
1360- Mongols build Pyramids.
Discover Navigation --> Physics.
1380- Build caravel which sets off with Wine and Gems.
1400- Mongols become a Republic
1460- Give Banking to Germans.
1480- Discover Physics --> Atomic Theory.
1500- Babs develop Economics.
Spanish and Russians go to war. (Russians are not on my foreign minister list.)
Swap Navigation to Spanish for Wheel.
Swap Navigation to Babs for Economics - Spanish get from GL.
Spanish map shows a white phalanx.

Russians have military but no settlers, I'm not sure their prospects are so good.

Stats 1500
187g. Inadequate (and spotless.) Republic. London = size 12.
1 settler, 2 warriors, 1 NON chariot, 1 dip, 1 caravel, 7 vans. 2 routes. We have 32 techs.
Wonders: Colossus, MPE, Copernicus.
Spanish: GL
Mongols: Pyramids, HG, Lighthouse, SunTzu, KRC, Leonardo

Babylonians (4): Enthusiastic, Allied, 599g, 2 cities, 27 techs
Germans (3): Enthusiastic, Allied, 296g, 3 cities, 25 techs
Spanish (5): Enthusiastic, Peace, 259g, 8 cities, 26 techs
Americans (1): Enthusiastic, Allied, 320g, 1 city, 25 techs
Mongols (6): Enraged, War, 2006g, 24 cities, 26 techs

 

[Inkerman]

In fact 1752 - a time in which tech advances again figure prominently, and we start building and storing caravans.

1510- Spanish acquire Masonry.
1530- Mongols develop Bridge Building.
1550- Build Stock Exchange.
1560- Germans get Bridge Building from Mongols (and Spanish get it from GL).
Mongols get Monotheism in return.
Germans get Invention from Mongols (as do Spanish) for Banking.
We swap Physics to Spanish for Bridge Building.
1570- Mongols get Philosophy from Germans in return for Seafaring.
Americans capture Kazan from Mongols, learning Invention.
1580- Americans get Iron Working from Mongols (and Spanish get it from GL).
Mongols get University in return. They sign peace treaty.
They swap wheel for trade (and Spanish get it from GL.)
Discover Atomic Theory --> Iron Working.
We swap Navigation to Americans for Iron Working.
1590- Babs get Invention from Americans for Economics.
We start on Magnetism.
1600- Mongols develop Gunpowder.
Spanish start on Mike's - they move capital to Valladolid.
We try an emissary to the Mongols - they want 400g which we won't give.
1610- War between Mongols and Germans.
1630- Mongols build Mike's.
We swap Chemistry to Spanish for Invention.
1650- Discover Magnetism --> Gunpowder.
Van, London-Seville, Wine, for 760g.
1660- Babyls develop Physics. Babyls attack Mongols on the pentagon.
Spanish and Mongols make peace.
Americans get Bridge building from Germans for Navigation.
Americans get Feudalism from Germans for Iron Working.
We give Physics to Americans.
1670- Americans go to war with Mongols.
Discover Gunpowder (Spanish get it from GL) --> Metallurgy
Van, London-Valladolid, Gems(undemanded), for 350g.
1680- Mongols build Oracle.
Give Iron Working, Bridge Building and Gunpowder to Babyls.
Give Gunpowder to Americans.
1690- Mongols develop Metallurgy, start Great Wall and become a republic.
We complete a musketeers (still no city walls.)
1700- Americans get Engineering from Mongols.
Mongols get Navigation and they make peace.
Americans get Metallurgy for Physics.
Americans get Chivalry for Economics.
Spanish get Engineering, Metallurgy and Chivalry from GL.
We get Metallurgy and Engineering from Spanish for Writing and Magnetism.
We pay 82g to change a Barb legion to a NON one for us.
1710- We start on Sanitation.
1720- Discover Sanitation --> Electricity.
Disband warrior into new sewer construction and RB.
1730- Germans get Economics from Babyls for Feudalism.
London builds sewers, city starts celebrating.
Start City Walls.
1740- Mongols develop Democracy. Pirates sink one of their vessels.
London grows to 13, cannot grow more without more building.
Babyls and Germans are worshipful. Americans and Spanish enthusiastic.
1750- Spanish Valladolid builds Adam Smith.
London builds City Walls, celebrations stop.
We pay 82g to bribe wounded Barb crusaders outside Babylon.
Diplomatic positions have not changed.
We use 6 vans on Shakespeare's.
1752- Mongol government overthrown. Germans develop Theology.
London builds Shakespeare's Theatre.

Stats 1752

821g. Weak (and spotless.) Republic. London = size 13.
1 warrior, 1 musketeer, 1 NON chariot, 1 NON legion, 1 NON crusader.
1 dip, 1 caravel, 7 vans. 4 routes (Ur, Washington, Seville showing). We have 41 techs.
Wonders: Colossus, MPE, Copernicus, Shakespeare's.
Mongols; Pyramids, HG, Lighthouse, Oracle, Sun Tzu, KRC, Mike's, Leonardo.
Spanish: GL, Adam Smith.

Babylonians (4): Worshipful, Allied, 1061g, 2 cities, 33 techs
Germans (3): Worshipful, Allied, 449g, 3 cities, 32 techs
Spanish (5): Enthusiastic, Peace, 670g, 10 cities, 39 techs
Americans (2): Enthusiastic, Allied, 544g, 2 cities, 37 techs
Mongols (6): Enraged, War, 2114g, 25 cities, 38 techs

 

[Inkerman]

More log data. Fighting gets more serious.

Power: Mongols/Spanish/Germans/Americans/English/Babylonians.

1754- Spanish start Magellan.
Discover Electricity --> Democracy.
Grow to size 14.
1756- Germans get Gunpowder from Americans for Theology.
Russians destroyed by Barbs.
London size 15.
1758- Mongols develop Conscription, and start Magellan.
Americans develop Democracy.
We swap Sanitation to Americans for Democracy.
Pile all remaining vans into Newton.
1760- Mongols nearly completed Magellan.
London builds Isaac Newton's College.
Start on Explosives.
1762- Shangtu completes Magellan - Spanish abandon.
Germans send an ambassador: we give Sanitation for Theology.
1764- Mongols nearly done SoL.
Babyls develop Democracy.
Mongols make peace with Babs and Germans.
Discover Explosives--> Refrigeration.
We have maxed out for now at 19.
1766- Ormuz builds SoL.
Spanish develop Steam Engine.
We are up to moderate.
1768- Mongols develop Steam Engine and overthrow their government.
Babyls steal sanitation from us - we do not cancel alliance.
1770- Mongols change to Fundamentalism.
Discover Refrigeration --> Conscription.
We swap explosives to Spanish for Steam Engine.
Revolution!
1772- Build harbour, become Democracy.
Sell Colosseum.
Disband caravel (it travelled back after delivery of vans to Spanish) into engineers and RB.
1774- Ambassador from Americans. We give Steam Engine for Chivalry.
Engineer starts improving our farms.
1776- Mongols start Eiffel Tower.
1778- Mongols develop Magnetism.
Babyls get Theology from Germans, Germans get Democracy in return.
London loves the president.
Give Steam Engine to Babs, Germans.
Give Magnetism to Americans.
1780- London builds Supermarket. Discover Conscription --> Leadership.
London back to 19.
Start Barracks and disband warrior into them (will allow 2 turn build with no rush.).
Give conscription to Babyls.
1782- Mongols nearly done Eiffel Tower.
London size 20.
1784- Cremona builds Eiffel Tower.
London builds Barracks and maxes at 21 (food limit.)
1786- Babyls go to war with Mongols.
Discover Leadership --> Tactics.
We ask, Germans say they have no contact with Mongols.
We swap Conscription to Americans for Feudalism.
Americans want 900g to fight Mongols - we decline.
1788- Americans report they are at war with Mongols.
1790- Mongols develop Fundamentalism.
Germans report they are at war with Mongols.
1792- Babylonian govt overthrown.
Discover Tactics --> Railroad.
Our crusaders destroy two Mongol units (one cannon) outside Babylon.
1794- Big Mongol seaborne attacks on Babylon.
Babyls develop Magnetism. They become a democracy.
We are Strong.
1796- Mongols start Great Wall.
We complete an Alpine Unit.
1798- Mongols bribe Kazan from Americans, and take Sanitation.
Discover Railroad --> Industrialization.
1800- Two Mongol cities near Great Wall completion, but also get abandons message. They have strength to spare.
Disband musketeers into caravan.
1802- Mongols develop ToG.
1804- Discover Industrialization --> Corporation.
1806- Mongols land next to London.
Alpine unit kills stack of 2, just. RB factory.
1808- Mongol riflemen destroy farmland - Babylonian crusader cleans them out.
Spanish say they have no contact with Mongols.

Advanced: English/Mongols/Americans/Spanish/Babylonians/Germans.

1810- Babyls become republic. Germans develop Chivalry. Spanish develop railroad and start Darwin. Discover Corporation --> Electronics. We get pollution.
Give railroad and tactics to Babyls.
Give railroad to Germans.
1812- We complete a cavalry unit.
1814- Mongols develop railroad, and start Darwin.
1816- Discover Electronics --> Steel.
1818- Germans lose caravel and passengers and ironclad to Mongol attacks.
Americans discover leadership. RB Hydro plant.
1820- Mongols nearly done Darwin (x2).
London builds Hydro Plant, and starts coastal fortress. Pollution much lower.
1822- Basra completes Darwin, for Industrialization (starting Suffrage) and Communism - cancelling MPE.
1824- Veii grants Women's Suffrage, and another city changes to UN.
Discover Steel --> Machine Tools. Complete Coastal Fortress.
1826- Aleppo builds UN.
Give Industrialization to Babs, Germans.
1828- Babyls develop Chivalry.
Americans get Industrialization from Germans - Germans get Conscription.
A cruiser sets out to maybe help the Babyls.
Give Tactics to Germans.
Give Explosives to Babyls.
Give Railroad to Americans.
1832- London builds an Oil caravan.
Discover Machine Tools --> Miniaturization.
London is 21 - engineer has been railroading, but could get one more citizen - will adjust lux.
1834- Celebrations.
1836- Americans get Tactics from Germans, in return for Physics.
Cruiser sinks pirates and becomes veteran, and then sinks Mongol ship - 3 units destroyed.
1838- Mongols are fighting Spanish.
Mongols kill our engineer. Germans kill one of the invading dragoons.
Cruiser sinks the transport they came from.
Cavalry kills dragoons.
Give explosives to Germans and Americans, engineering to Babylonians.
1840- More Mongol attacks and ironclads appear.
Discover Miniaturization --> Refining
We complete an artillery.
Cruiser sinks one ironclad.
1842- London grows to 23.
1844- Give Miniaturization to Babyls.
1846- Germans get Engineering from Spanish and make peace.
Americans get Miniaturization from Babyls in return for Leadership. We build engineers.
1848- Discover Refining --> Combustion.
1850- Our two cruisers sink two Mongol frigates and an ironclad.
Give Tactics to Spanish.

Stats 1850
728g. Inadequate (and spotless.) Democracy.
1 alpine, 1 cavalry, 1 artillery. 1 NON chariot, 1 NON legion, 1 NON crusader.
2 cruisers.
1 dip, 7 caravans. 4 freights. 4 routes. We have 60 techs.
Wonders: Colossus, MPE, Copernicus, Shakespeare's, Newton.
Mongols; Pyramids, HG, Lighthouse, Oracle, Sun Tzu, KRC, Mike's, Magellan, Leo's, Darwin, SoL, Eiffel, Suffrage, UN.
Spanish: GL, Adam Smith.

 

[Inkerman]

I presume it is OK to mention dates as this was not a successful challenge.

Spoiler :

Continuous fighting by us and our allies vs Mongol seaborne forces.
Routine building of food freights not noted.
I could have played a bit more strongly, 
but generally build/defence balance seemed OK. 
Money was quite tight with our coffers dropping below 100g in the later game.
              
      English Discover (Build),  *Notes, 
1851- Combustion
1852- 
1853- 
1854- 
1855- 
1856- Automobile
1857- 
1858- (Battleship)
1859- 
1860- Mass Production (Superhighways)

1861- 
1862- (Mass Transit)
1863- Computers
1864- (Cruiser)
1865- 
1866- (Research Lab)
1867- Mobile Warfare
1868- (Tank Unit)
1869- Robotics (Barracks)
1870- 

1871- Espionage
1872- 
1873- 
1874- Fission (Manuf Plant)
1875- (Spy)        *Re-establish embassies
1876- 
1877- Nuclear Power
1878- 
1879- Laser
1880- 

1881- Recycling
1882- 
1883- 
1884- Flight        *Cancels our Colossus
1885- 
1886- 
1887- Radio (Recycling Centre)
1888- (Wine Freight)
1889-                *Cruiser lost
1890- Advanced Flight

1891- 
1892- (Battleship)
1893- *Re-establish embassy with Mongols (and hit a University) 
1894- Rocketry (Bomber)   *Battleship lost   *Wine to Khorasan
1895- 
1896- * Mongols - Automobile, + take Miniaturisation from Germans
1897- Space Flight
1898- (Apollo Program)     *Cruiser lost
1899- (1st Structural)      * Mongols - Radio
1900- (2nd Structural)  Plastics

1901- * Mongols - Mobile Warfare
1902- (1st Component)     * Mongols take Computers from Germans
1903- (3rd Structural)    * Mongols - Mass Production
1904- (4th Structural)
1905- (5th Structural) Superconductor * Mongols - Fission + MT from Spanish
1906- (6th Structural)    * Mongols - (SETI), Electronics
1907- (7th Structural) 
1908- (8th Structural)    * Mongols - Advanced Flight + Theo from G's 
1909- (9th Structural)  Stealth   * Mongols - (JSB) Rocketry 
1910- (10th Structural)

1911- (11th Structural)  * Mongols - Space flight + build many structurals
1912- (Stealth Fighter)   
1913- (12th Structural)  *Battleship lost   * Mongols -  Combined Arms
1914- (13th Structural)
1915- (14th Structural)
1916- (15th Structural)
1917-  * Mongols - Robotics
1918- (2nd Component)    * Mongols (Hoover)
1919- Fusion Power       * Mongols take Guerilla Warfare from Americans
1920- (3rd Component)    * Mongols - Plastics

1921-                         * Mongols build several components
1922- (4th Component)
1923- (5th Component)
1924- (6th Component)   * Mongols - Labor Union 
1925- 
1926- (1st Module)
1927- (2nd Module)      * Mongols - Refrigeration
1928- (3rd Module)       *Launch for 1943 landing
1929-                   * Mongols - Nuclear power 
1930- (SAM Battery)     * Mongols - Laser

1931- (Tank unit)
1932- (Transport)       * Mongols - Superconductor, build 3 modules and launch
1933- (AEGIS)
1934- (Howitzer)
1935- (Howitzer)        * Mongols - Fusion Power
1936- (Howitzer)        * Engineers lost
1937-                   * Mongols take Berlin
1938- (Manhattan)       * Mongols take Babylon, cruiser lost
      * Discover Karakorum's enormous defences.
1939- (Nuke)      
1940- Mongols land on Alpha Centauri

 

[Major Advantage]

So you have been at war with the Mongols for the whole game (after first contact)? I am impressed you managed to stay alive.

Log from 1000 Ad -> Apollo:

1040 gift from Zulu: Gunpowder
1100 Demo from America
1120 Physics -> Steam
1140 ARGS!!! Finally improved trade routes to New York and now Karakorum is out of coal demand... deliver anyway, 276g
1160 Dye(d) 492g
1180 Demo establ.; wasted a food caravan to unblock dye, got cloth instead
1200 Steam -> Gravity
1220 get metallurgy from Zulu
1240 cloth -> New York 78g
1300 Gravity -> Railroad(888)
1340 Leadership + 50g from Mongols
1380 drop off vans in mongolia, they want me join their war with america, refuse, pay 50g to maintain alliance, ask for gift, get conscr.
1400 Railroad -> Economics(960); after industry, communism will follow soon, and we should have UN
1420 coal 184g
1440 Newton college built
1460 Econ. -> Industr., demanded gold for 500g

Stats at 1500 AD
city size: 21; techs: 39, gold: 1547, Trade routes: 3, buildings: Colossus, Marco, Shakepeare, Newton; Market, Bank, Library, Aqaeduct, Uni, sewer, harbour
Units: 1 settler, 1 army, 3 vans, 1 boat

Celts: Enth, allied, 2 cities, 21 techs
Zulu: Enth, allied, 31 cities, 39 techs
Vikings: Cooperative, peace, 3 cities, 18 techs
Aztecs: Enth, peace, 1 city, 28 techs
America: Enth, allied, 2 cities, 30 techs
Mongols: Enth, allied, 19 cities, 38 techs
Germany, Babylon, France eliminated
plan: railroad trade routes, upgrade boat, grow city, build UN, hope Zulus won't build spaceship

1510 Industr. -> Corporation
1530 Barb leader 100g
1540 Corp. -> Magnetism
1550 As expected, Zulus are doing communism
1570 Magn. ->Electr.(1056)
1580 coal(u) 248g
1610 Electr. -> Refrig., London is now size 24
1630 trade routes to New York now are at 22 with railroads
1650 Refrig. -> Electronics
1660 Gems(d) 752g
1670 Electr. -> Steel, Stock Exchange built, oil(u) 252g, spend 1200g on UN
1680 UN built, 50g from Mongols; trade routes down to 11? There is an Aztec settler in the way... ?
1690 Aztec settler moved away, routes back to 22
1700 get explosives from Zulu
1710 Steel -> Chem; get chem from Mongols & 50g
1720 research refining
1730 For some reason, everybody is at war on our island (except for us)
1750 Refining -> Combustion(1248); oil(u) 282g

Stats at 1752 AD
city size: 23; techs: 50(21 white), gold: 2206, Trade routes: 3, buildings: Colossus, Marco, Shakepeare, Newton, UN; Market, Bank, Stock Exchange, Library, Uni, Aqaeduct, sewer, harbour
Units: 1 settler, 1 engineer, 1 army, 5 vans, 1 boat

Celts: Neutral, allied, 1 city, ? techs
Zulu: Enth, allied, 35 cities, 51 techs
Vikings: Enraged, peace, 5 cities, ? techs
Aztecs: Enth, peace, 1 city, ? techs
America: Enth, allied, 2 cities, ? techs
Mongols: Cordial, allied, 23 cities, 46 techs
Germany, Babylon, France eliminated
plan: hunt through techs and build sapceship

1756 Comb. -> Automobile(1272); gems (d) 762g
1760 Automobil -> Mass Prod.
1762 Superhighways
1768 Mass Prod. -> Atom. Theory; oil(u)441
1772 Machine Tools & 50g from Mongols
1774 Atom -> Mini(1368), Mass transit
1776 Celts destroyed by Mongols
1780 Mini -> Computers
1786 Comp. -> Flight
1788 Science Lab
1792 Flight ->Radio(1440), 100g Barb leader
1798 Radio -> Adv. Flight(1464), gold(d) 976
1800 Missed Adv. flight due to trade route decrease (Mongols step on New York's wine)
1802 Adv Fl. -> Nucl Fission
1808 Nucl. Fiss -> Power(1512), oil(d) 1008
1810 Nucl. Power -> Rocket
1812 Factory
1814 Nuclear Plant
1816 Rocket -> Space spend food van for wonder bread -> 3 comodities available
1822 Space flight -> plastics
1824 Apollo built, get pottery from Aztecs (allowing granaries for iprbing ss-structurals)

 

[Inkerman]

Hi Major,

Thanks for posting the log. I think it makes an interesting contrast with the game I played, and despite the significant differences there are some common learning points.

Yes I was fighting the Mongols throughout the game, but it really wasn't a big problem.

It was almost entirely a naval war. The navy took some resources but mostly it was when my production was between 40 and 49 shields, so cruisers (and later the two battleships) were easy builds, and certainly felt better than freights. We had a tech edge at sea as well, so whilst that lasted, sinking ironclads, frigates and especially transports was an efficient use of resources. I kept swapping maps to try for intelligence on Mongol ship locations. But the Mongols had excess production, and so it was rather like the video game Space Invaders: attackers in waves that kept coming no matter how many we destroyed. And mostly when they did get through the attackers dashed themselves against Babylon and Berlin, so I didn't feel much risk of losing through being conquered.

The big problem, to my mind, was the tech race. Once the Mongols got the techs to launch they did so. I think it was harder for you in that you managed successfully against the Mongols and it was the upstart Zulus on the southern continent that won the race instead. You were quicker than me, but also your AI was quicker. It looks to me as if Space Flight was your 64th tech, whereas for me it was my 76th. As a result you were into the space race much sooner. If there any small changes to slightly speed our tech advance, or to slow the AI's, maybe that holds the key? For example maybe it is worth building SETI rather than a Lab once computers are discovered, so as to deny it to the AI?

One thing on the tech race if I was playing again: I would settle immediately and try and keep all five neighbours on the Pentagon as long as possible - despite their best efforts to grab each other by the throat and defend inadequately against pirates, let alone their continual misjudgement of the Mongols. Settlements on the other continents seems, based on experience, just a way of helping the AI get techs quicker, rather than becoming something of a counterweight to the extreme Mongol power, as I had initially hoped.

It may be a couple of weeks, if then, before anyone else comes along to show us how to do it. Mandated OCC does not tend to get a lot of people taking part, and particularly with #136 starting near the same time and looking a big game with a big fun war to win it will take the spotlight from this game. GotM 114 was the last OCC-only game for which results are out and only Ali and haleewud submitted files: still I think they like OCC and know what they're doing, so they may come by here in due course.

regards,
Inkerman

 

[haleewud]

I started playing GOTM 135 last week after finishing GOTM 134. I chose to pop the hut before settling and got a NON horseman. I used the horse to explore the pentagon, but did not destroy any civilizations.

I encountered the Celts first and the Babylonians second and probably could have eliminated both of them, although I am not sure about the Babs. I wanted to keep all five pentagon civs as buffers and I also wasn't sure if having them relocate to the south continent would be a good idea.

I played for quite a long time but at around 900AD, I made a decision that prevented me from completing Leo's before the Mongols built it at around 1000AD. So at that point I gave up and reloaded (to make a different choice).

In this scenario, especially the way I played it, I think the Mongols are just too strong. They have the whole north continent to expand on, while the remaining 6 civilizations are all basically playing OCC. The only civilization that moved off the pentagon was the Americans and they didn't move off until just before Washington was captured by the Mongols. One turn I noticed that Washington was purple, so I thought the Americans were destroyed even though I didn't get any message. A few turns later, I was looking at the diplomacy window and saw the Americans were still there. So I contacted them and gifted a few techs before sharing maps. New York was a size 1 city on the south continent.

The other thing that I will say is the AI cheats. Before they built the Statue of Liberty and moved to Fundamentalism, the Mongols were in Republic or Democracy for a significant period of time. Even when they were in Democracy, whenever a diplomatic meeting would happen, they would always demand tribute (although later they would call it 'reparations'). These demands actually helped lead me to my bad decision.

At around 900AD, I was trying to build Newton's college. I had already lost out on the Colossus and Copernicus' Observatory. I also needed to contact the Mongols to trade for some techs. I had over 1200 gold at the time and didn't want to give any to the Mongols, so I spent most of the gold rush building Newton's. Of course a few turns later when I was trying to build Leo's, I didn't have enough gold or caravans to complete it before the Mongols.

When I reloaded, I used the 1200 gold to rush build caravans every turn. I still had the warrior slot and was producing 10 shields, so I could buy the 40 shields for 100g. I think I also contacted the Mongols once or twice during the time and had to pay them 300 gold. I was able to use the vans to build both Newton's and Leo's (I think I got the Mongols' almost completed warning on Leo's on the turn I built it).

I have kept on playing even though I knew I couldn't legally win. I have just started researching Space Flight. Once I build Apollo, it will take 24 turns to build the optimum 15-3-3-1-1-1 spaceship. I think I have enough gold and trucks to complete 1 spaceship part each turn. If the Mongols develop or acquire Space Flight (and the other 2 techs) before I launch, I know I will lose.

My next post will detail an even bigger AI cheat.

 

[haleewud]

I will get to what I think is more AI cheating, but first here is the end of my log.

Spoiler :

+1826 London builds Freight (food), Space Flight -> Plastics (1742), I am ready to start the space race. I have 6642 gold and 24 food trucks. RB 480g + 9 freight, T/L/S = 4/0/6 (I need a little income so I won't run out of money)
+1828 Mongols develop Auto, Wars between Germans and Aztecs, Aztecs and Americans and Americans and Mongols end, London builds Apollo, RB 160g
+1830 Mongols develop Mobile Warfare, Spy is expelled, London builds SS#1, RB 160g
+1832 Mongols develop Flight, London builds SS#2, RB 160g
+1834 London builds SS#3, RB 160g
+1836 Mongols develop Mass Production, London builds SS#4, RB 160g
+1838 Mongols develop Combined Arms, London builds SS#5, Plastics -> Superconductor (1768), RB 160g
+1840 London builds SS#6, RB 160g
+1842 Mongols develop Nuclear Fission, Paratroopers capture Tenochtitlan, Aztecs destroyed, Mongols declare war on Germans, Berlin captured, Germans destroyed, London builds SS#7, RB 160g
+1844 Mongols develop Labor Union, London builds SS#8, RB 160g
+1846 London builds SS#9, RB 160g
+1848 Mongols develop Radio, London builds SS#10, RB 160g
+1850 Mongols develop Miniaturization, London builds SS#11, Superconductor -> Fusion Power (1796), RB 160g
+1851 Mongols develop Nuclear Power, London builds SS#12, RB 160g
+1852 London builds SS#13, RB 160g
+1853 Mongols develop Computers, start SETI, London builds SS#14, RB 160g
+1854 Mongols develop Space Flight, build 9 SS, London builds SS#15, RB 480g
+1855 Mongols build 30 more SS, London builds SC#1, RB 480g
+1856 Mongols nearly done with SETI, develop Robotics, London builds SC#2, Fusion Power -> FT#1 (1820), RB 480g
+1857 London builds SC#3, RB 480g
+1858 London builds SC#4, RB 480g, T/L/S=0/4/6
+1859 Mongols develop Plastics, Build 12 SC, Karakorum builds SETI, London builds SC#5, WLTPD, RB 480g
+1860 Mongols build 4 SC, New York captured, Americans destroyed, London builds SC#6, Size 25, RB 160g+5 trucks
+1861 Mongols develop Genetic Engineering, start CfC, London builds SM#1, Size 26, Sell Sewer for RB slot, RB 320g+4 trucks, T/L/S = 4/0/6
+1862 Mongols nearly done with CfC, London builds SM#2, FT1 -> FT2 (1846), WLTPD ends, RB 320g+4 trucks
+1863 Mongols develop Laser, Tabriz discovers CfC, London builds SM#3, LAUNCH (1878 arrival)
+1864 Mongols develop Superconductor, London builds Freight (Coal), Coal to Shangtu for 1200g, RB 40s+60sh
+1865 Mongols build 3 SM, Launch 39-8-8-1-1-1 spaceship (8.0 years arrival in 1872), London builds Airport

Since I was not competing for submission, I did refer to the CHEAT mode to check Mongol progress several times. According to the Trade Adviser, they were generating around 800 beakers per turn and should have been getting a new advance every 3 turns.

In reality, they made 17 advances in 28 turns. Of course, they did research a number of unnecessary items (like Radio and Flight), so I probably didn't stand a chance. They also probably could have built the complete spaceship and still beat me (since they only needed 9 more Modules).

At some point I will probably play through the landing. I don't think I have ever seen what happens if the AI makes the landing.

Update: I didn't have a chance to see the Mongol space ship land. They sneak attacked in 1867. The English survived 2 turns, but ultimately fell to the Mongol horde.

 

[mackerel]

I'm nearly to the point where I need the Americans to stop working tiles in my city radius, and I can't remember how to reclaim those white squares. Any ideas? If there is a reliable method, it should probably be added to Ali's OCC guide.

 

[Inkerman]

I had that in this game, in my case because the replacement for the destroyed Cardiff and Tenochtitlan were rebuilt inland. I think...

A non-allied unit in a land square prevents a City working that square.

Units of a Civ with which you are allied, and your units in relation to their zones, have no effect.

So, if you want to work a square and it is currently worked by another Civ, you move a unit to that square one turn and start to work it the next (and you mustn't be allied.) Of course if you are at peace you will be asked to withdraw, but by that time you will be working the square.

If you are very lucky an ally, probably hostile to the other Civ, will do the job for you (occasionally.) Again in my GotM 135, my neighbours fought each other quite a lot, and this did happen once.

 

[Major Advantage]

The big problem, to my mind, was the tech race. Once the Mongols got the techs to launch they did so. I think it was harder for you in that you managed successfully against the Mongols and it was the upstart Zulus on the southern continent that won the race instead. You were quicker than me, but also your AI was quicker. It looks to me as if Space Flight was your 64th tech, whereas for me it was my 76th. As a result you were into the space race much sooner. If there any small changes to slightly speed our tech advance, or to slow the AI's, maybe that holds the key? For example maybe it is worth building SETI rather than a Lab once computers are discovered, so as to deny it to the AI?

I think the worst event that took place in game was the Zulu building Copernicus. I didn't think I would be able to keep the game as close as it actually was. On the other hand, if I had a commanding tech lead, that would allow me to win the space race, maybe the big AIs would have been more hostile. I never was at war with anybody and didn't build a single military unit until after launch (apart from 2 warriors for martial law in the beginning iirc).
SETI would might have been a good idea. In fact, I read the advice somewhere to generally build SETI instead of science lab, so the AI won't have it and you would prolong your tech lead. I was reluctant to do so since I had already spent a lot of resources on UN. Maybe I'll pick the game up again at that point for another try.

I'm nearly to the point where I need the Americans to stop working tiles in my city radius, and I can't remember how to reclaim those white squares. Any ideas? If there is a reliable method, it should probably be added to Ali's OCC guide.

As far as I know, the AI is usually trying to max out food. So to draw their workers away from tiles you won't, you can either try to improve other tiles in their city radius (e.g. irrigate plains so they will let go of a forest you want) or decrease the food output of the tile you want to work on. I had spent a lot of settler turns doing the latter (maybe should have roaded my trade routes instead): When I let go of the bananas for another shield, the Celts didn't waste any time and moved right in. We already were allied, so putting a military unit there wasn't an option. I mined the banana into silk instead and the Celtic worker moved away. Later they irrigated the silk into wheat while I was still working there. I didn't like that, but there wasn't much I could do about that. So what, wheat with roads and farmland is still valuable.

 

[Inkerman]

I have learnt that in Civ2 there is often more than one way to achieve something, but I must admit I would have been somewhat downhearted in any OCC, let alone a very difficult one such as this, to find the AI building Copernicus before I could. And if I couldn't have that wonder, then I would certainly want Colossus - so lots of sympathy to haleewud who got neither.

The other wonders I took were MPE, Shakespeare's, and finally Newton's.

I don't think I see Leonardo or UN as so important, not even to deny the AI as per this thread's discussion about SETI (but then if the AI "cheats" its tech advances maybe that won't make much difference.)

It seems in fact that I had it easy: I got all of Colossus, Copernicus, MPE, Shakespeare's, and Newton's, and it wasn't the Mongols that got GL, but rather a Civ that re-spawned on the southern continent.

So, thinking I can play better (but probably with the same result!), I have been re-playing this rather than tackling the big #136 yet. It won't count of course, but a re-start (from the beginnning) has gone differently from my first attempt. I mention this mainly to say I think I am managing quite well without MPE, which I lost the race for this time, although it is requiring more record-keeping. And on the denial line of thought I have chosen, and been able, to take Magellan this time.

 

[Major Advantage]

I built UN for two reasons:
1. Without Copernicus, I was even more dependent on the AI's research (having only 21 white techs out of 50 in 1752), so there was an urgent need to replace the embassies asap after somebody discovered communism. Shipping diplomats to the north and the south would require a lot of time and cost 2 production turns per dip. Discovering espionage before would take too long.
2. In the end, I would want UN anyway. Two super-powers in the north and the south, me in between, that feels like a mouse (that cannot move) between two dancing elephants.

I don't really see the point in building Leo's though. Unless one has tons of stockpiled caravans and two NONE-settlers.
And why Magellan? Sure it helps, but I don't think it is worth 400 shields.

 

[Major Advantage]

The rest of my original log:

Spoiler :

1824 Apollo built, get pottery from Aztecs (allowing granaries for iprbing ss-structurals)
1826 1st structure, oil(d) 910g
1830 plastics -> Laser(1564), coal(d) 645g
1832 Mongols destroy Aztecs
1836 Laser -> Supercond. Zulu join space race, dye (d) 532g
1838 7 structures done, Zulus have 14
1844 Supercond. -> Fusion 10 structures (Zulu 33)
1848 New York destroyed by Mongols! So my trade routes (3*27) are gone as well...
1852 15 structs complete, Zulu have 39 and 6-6 components
1855 Americans destroyed by Mongols, so now my key civ is gone; Spaceship at 15-2-1, Zulu 39-8-8, Mongols 19-0
1856 think, think, think and decide to interrupt ss for one more delivery
1857 gold (d) >Cardiff 290g (+20 tr)
1859 structs & components dones, Mongol offshore van creates 2nd trade route
1860 Fusion -> Espionage
1862 Standard ship launched (ETA 1877)! So far so good, Zulu are at 39-8-8-0-0-0 researching supercond., Mongols at 39-0-0-0-0, resaerching Laser. Too bad we don't know how to build city walls!
1866 Zulus have supercond.
1867 just 1 Zulu Modul
1868 two more Zulu modules and launched! To arrive in 1876! Ouch
1869 Mongols destroy Vikings
1875 last Trade route re-established
1876 Zulus land

...

pick up at 1856, go straight for spaceship
1861 launched, ETA 1876
1867 Zulus launch to land 1875...

Maybe I'll pick the game up again at that point for another try.

Tried, but that didn't work either. In the end Zulus were doing 1-turn-advances even though I had SETI...

Spoiler :

pick up at 1752, go for SETI
-block New York's wine with caravan
1756 Comb.->Autmob.(1219)
1758 Mongol Darwin -> Machine Tools
1760 Automob. -> Mass Prod.(1265), Mach to from Mong
1762 SH built, generated 567 beakers at max science
1766 Mass prod->Mini (1288), oil(u)486
1776 Computers -> Atomic(1392), use two vans + ~ 2000g for SETI, unblock oil, gold
1778 SETI built (580 beaker this turn)
1780 back to moderate, tech dump Aztecs, still 1798 required
1782 Atom -> Fiss.(1534), final celebration
1788 Fiss->Power(1586), gold(d) 1057
1790 Power -> Flight(1488), oil(u) 720
...
1802 We are moderate and America just killed the Aztecs
1804 Radio -> Adv. Flight (2112)
1808 Back to strong (1536)
1816 Rocket -> Space(1584), coal(d)715, oil(d) 860
1818 Space -> plastics(1608)
1820 Apollo built
...
1838 Zulu are doing 1t/a and join space race, we are even at 9 structurals
1840 Zulus have 19 now, no need to carry on