GOTM 137 spoiler

[Major Advantage]

So here we are to take revenge on those cheaters from #135.
I decided to settle a few cities in the gaps on our island, and then move south to populate the green and welcoming southern continent.

Another idea I had was to eliminate all enemies on our island except for one to have trade routes with and start a great trading empire.

To reach Antarctica, I (of course!) wouldn't risk a trireme leap and I wouldn't want to wait until Navigation (which would result in worse trade pay-offs), so it would have to be the Lighthouse. For that, I decided not to start until trade, and let then all (or most) cities contribute their share in that enterprise.

Marco Polo is always a nice thing to have, but in this case, we already know where the AI are located, so if we want embassies with them, we can use diplomats for that, which would cost 6*30=180 shields, 20 shields less than Marco's. Plus, those embassies would endure communism, minus you will not know anything about respawns if an AI gets eliminated.

So here is the first part of my log:
-4000 London founded (work silk, build warrior for hut, then s1-settler)
-3950 choose bronze
-3800 hut: Archer
-3750 Bronze>Burial
-3700 Meet Celts, deny peace, no tribute
(celtic sneak attack on Archer, we win)
-3650 Meet Babylonians, get Burial for Bronze, peace. Hm, Babylon is size2 and empty, could have been captured.
Let archer wait outside Cardiff, hoping to grow to size two
-3600 researching Currency, Cardiff still size 1 and garrisoned, move away, hail them, peace, get Alph
-3500 Discover Berlin, deny peace, no tech trade, it's empty & size 2...
-3450 empty no more, sign peace, alliance, disband Archer into settler
-3400 settler built
-3300 Meet american warrior, peace
-3250 Meet Aztecs, peace, they have pottery to offer, York founded
-3050 Germans develop pottery, alliance with Babylon
(America has writing)
-2850 Barbs land near Berlin, no gift from Babylon
(Barbs die attacking german settler, Babylon Masonry)
-2750 get writing from America
-2600 Nottingham founded on western shore
-2300 Curr. > Laws
-2250 Hastings on SE-shore
-2100 Celts have myst.

Stats at -2000
pop: 60k; cities: 4; techs: 6; government: Desp.
units: 3 warriors
Celt: cordial, peace
Babylon: worship, allied
Germany: Enth., allied
Aztec: Enth, peace
America: Enth, peace
Mongols: No contact

plan: Monarchy, trade, LH, expand to southern continent, Marco Polo(?)

-1950 get Laws from America (for currency)
-1900 Research Mon.
-1800 Nottingham builds 1st boat
-1350 Monarchy > Trade
-1300 Revolution
-1250 Monarchy established
-1200 Germans have sailed north and are at war with mongols, celtics are sailing south...

Stats at -1000
pop: 150k; cities: 4; techs: 8; government: Mon.
units: 3 settler, 4 army, 1 boat
Celt: Enth, allied
Babylon: worship, allied
Germany: Enth., allied
Aztec: Enth, peace
America: Enth, peace
Mongols: No contact

 

[Peaster]

I didn't play 135 and didn't peek at the map, but did look over the 135 spoiler and saw that this gotm might be a hard one. My instincts were to fight for space on the island, building up a decent size civ while researching towards Lighthouse. I popped and repopped a few times [this was determined to be legal] and took a chariot.
I wanted a nomad or 100g, for example, but I didn't bother to look up which hut results were possible, and didn't get those in my trial pops. At least, the chariot seemed a decent way to start some very early EC.

-4000 Hut = chariot.

-3950 Chariot defeats Celts (empty capitol)

-3900 London founded on original square.

-3700 Americans sneak attack but lose, leaving another capitol empty for the chariot, another AI down.

-3650 Alph --> CB

-3550 Aztecs give BW as tribute. Can't recall why we weren't at war.

-3350 My Size 1 city makes a Settler. The previous turn my chariot reduced Berlin to an empty size 1 city. This turn the city grew back to an empty size 2 city, which my chariot took over. Two cities. Another AI down. Luck has been good so far.

-3250 Babs give pots as tribute (again I can't recall why we weren't at war). York (3) founded NE of London.

-3200 I sneak vs Babylon, and empty it. My chariot is on hills IIRC, but heavily wounded. Next turn a new Bab warrior arises and kills it. A little bad luck to balance the good. So, the game is set. I'll share the island with Az + Babs, trying to outgrow them both and build approx 10 cities asap. I won't be able to make war effectively for a while, but growth should allow more conquest or Lighthouse on a normal schedule.

The next phase was enjoyable but fairly predictable so I will condense my notes unless someone wants to see more.

-2500 Nott (4), researching CL.

-1650 Monarchy, 7 cities. Peace with Babs for 50g (and I've collected a bit of tribute over the years, even with no real army).

-1500 stats 8 cities, monarchy, 9w 1 dip, 1S, 7adv, 39g, 140,000pop, with a good road network. Peace or cf with 2 AI (IIRC).

-1350 trade techs with AI's, getting mapmaking + curr and another 100g for peace.

-1300 Trade. Pause for more planning: mainly I need 2 flotillas, LH and HG. Probably will build ship chains and heavy trade in Hides later. Still no horseback riding etc, and can't wage war. I do start a barracks within the next few 100 years though.

-1000 and stats monarchy, 11 cities, 250K pop, 11adv, 3S 1tri, 1d, 11w, peace x2. From tribute and changing research tracks, I soon get Seaf + turn to HBR.

-875 LH in Nott. First flot goes south with 2 settlers. I don't recall why I went south first - probably just because my trireme was on the south coast.

700 I went a few turns without notes, but built 2 outpost cities in the south, with no sign of life there, not even any nearest-city info. Another flot is heading north.

-675 HG. A relief ... the rioting was getting bad. Am getting slightly confusing nearest-city info about the Mongols in the north, but am not at all sure of their locations and just forge ahead. As soon as I build my 2 northern outposts, I realize I am only two squares from Samarkand and a half dozen from Karakorum, still without HBR. Uh Oh. This was sloppy. I have to throw several techs at them to keep them peaceful until I can beef up. I also post any spare warriors near their cities, like lightening rods, hoping that if Genghis sneaks, he won't do much real harm. Not sure this makes sense, but it seemed to work for a while.

-575 Mongols build Colossus. I get HBR next turn.

-500 Monarchy, 17 cities, peace x3, 2 WoWs. Studying Poly.

-475 I have an explorer popping huts in the vacant south, and get an AT. This repeats a few times and I get a decent sized southern civ soon.

-450 Just met the Celts, refused peace, and they kill my dip. They start on GW. French build Pyramids. I'm getting small tributes from Az+Babs.

-400 First 2 vans to Karak, approx 200g each. Gives Poly --> Myst

-250 Phil-->Mono-->Consn. Approx 8 vans by now, getting approx 300g each at Karak (Colossus).

-100 My notes here are sketchy, but IIRC I lost several units and one city to the Mongos, but have ICS'd to about 4 other cities in the north and am rather stable. I have barracks on the island making ellies and I defeat the Babs there. Finally we meet the French in the south. I think some vans were getting 400g+ by now.

-50 MPE (delayed). Less useful in this gotm because I am already ahead of the AI in techs, and I don't need their maps urgently. But with restarts ON, it will be needed eventually, and having AI maps may prevent some dumb moves like settling in the Mongo front yard.

1 AD 36 cities. Monarchy. 600g. peace x2, war x2. 25adv, 13S, 25w, 11cru, 15tri, 2dip, 3v, 1exp, 3WoW.

Plans: Crack the Celts before they build GW. Mike's. Remove Az's from isle. Start to control the map vs respawns. At some point I realized this 100x100 map is actually "small", because it is round, with much more water than land, and easily navigated. I don't think hunting respawns will be hard on it, But I control no land near the Pers's or French yet, and need to do that asap. More log later.

 

[Major Advantage]

1 AD 36 cities.

Highly impressive (again) I just had a look at my stats from GOTM #129 (the mediterranean map), and even then, when I was trying for ICS I only had 33 cities.
But what about the Celts? It seems like you took them out in the second turn of the game, and to my experience, they respawn as someone else (in this case Romans or Russians). Were they eliminated by Mongols?

In my game I wanted to keep my neighbours alive in the early game to prevent respawns and leave the southern continents uninhabitated. A lesson learned from my first try on #135, when I took out Babylonians early and Zulus won the space race.
Here are my next 1000 years:

-950 Trade > Lit; all production to vans for wonders
-900 get some maps, babylonians heading southeast, celtics have settled on southern continent
-750 Mongols start HG
-725 LH completed, trireme sails south with 2 settlers
-675 100 g gift from Babylon
-625 drop off 1st settler in Antarctica, get pottery from Germany
-600 Hastings builds HG (decide against Marco for now), Canterbury founded on southern continent
-550 get myst from America, 100g tribute, Coventry founded, sailing north with van&dip for Mongol embassy
-475 get Lit. from Celts
-450 Research Philo
-425 philo > Republic (Poly not available) > HBR; 50g from hut
-400 Embassy with Mongols, dye(d)192g, get HBR from Celts
-375 Research Poly, huts: Legion & AT (Warwick), now riot factor kicks in, hail Mongols, no peace (they are @ war with germany)
-325 2*50g from hut
-300 Mongols land on our island, demand cancellation of alliance with germany, refuse, war, they attack and kill settler&dip
-275 huts 50g & barbs (1 horse bribed)
(horse and dip survive)
-250 bribe Mongol horse, kill legion with it
-225 2 barb horses kill Legion in Coventry, spend gold, gift rep to mongols, cease fire, get Masonry from Babylon, no gift, raise lux for celebrations
(Coventry captured by barbs)
-200 Oxford founded
-175 Liverpool
-150 Dover
-125 silk(d)>Cardiff 90g
-100 Brighton (AT)
-50 Mono->Math, get Math from Germany, Astro from hut, Construction from hut, revolution
-25 Republic, research university
1 AD Michelangelo built, huts: 25+50g

Stats at 1 AD
pop: 520k; cities: 11 (4 home, 7 south); techs: 21; government: Rep. Wonders: LH, HG, Michelangelo
units: 0 settler, 7 army, 2 boat, 4 dips
Celt: Enth, allied
Babylon: Enth, allied
Germany: Enth., allied
Aztec: Enth, peace
America: Enth, peace
Mongols: enraged, cease fire; 8 cities, 19 techs, Colossus, Oracle

plan: befriend with mongols by declaring war on germany, conquer Berlin, start heavy oversea trade

 

[Peaster]

So, in the North we have Mongols, Persians and Celts - joined soon by the Spanish. In the South, we have the French and a small Japanese respawn. The supreme English are colonizing both the North and South, but not the lands of the French or Persians, for example.

80AD Aztecs down, but respawn as Spanish. Pers's have also started GW (with Celts). I've made peace with the Persians because my position near them was weak. Next turn I take down the Celtic capitol, and stop that GW. Coffers reach a max of 1700g.

160AD For some reason, most of the AI declare war on me this turn (responding to demands for tribute) which is OK with me. Crusaders and dips take several cities, including Karakorum, the Mongol capitol. This was one of my two main mistakes in the game (the other was settling so close to the Mongols). I had a ship chain to that city, which contained the Colossus, and was getting around 400g per Hides van, at least 1 van per turn. After this, I got approx 200g per van, which hurt my economy enough to delay final conquest by several turns. I am still surprised the Col mattered so much, and will probably go into cheat mode later to see exactly what happened.

280AD Have been steadily conquering the AI cities. There were approx 30 I guess. The Persians build GW in their Persepolis. The GW is a major nuisance for EC players, but in this case, that city had walls already. It was the capitol, and near the sea, and was my primary Persian target anyway. So, this was not a disaster. The main problems were its distance from my northern outposts and that the GW forced me to make peace with them.

English coffers sunk to approx 200g for several turns, allowing only urgent RBs, but they are starting to rise again.

300AD Celts go down, no respawn. I have finally gotten close to Paris in the south, but only with a settler on a boat so far. I lost an explorer to a hut full of barbs. This happened a few times.

420AD Crusaders take Persepolis, including the GW and Pyr. The next turn Paris and Kyoto fall.

I will stop the log here, not to reveal the EC date. My luck with respawns was reasonable, but I missed my target date by one turn. The last civ alive was green. The delay with that color was mainly in finding the second Japanese city, Osaka. Probably I should have gotten full map info from the Japs earlier, another small sign of rust in my play. Overall a good fun game, with above average luck. It was nothing like the dire descriptions of the OCC version, gotm 135.

I was playing mainly for fun and Green. My score will probably be decent, but I didn't push for Gold, with no Republic phase after the conquest. Not enough RL times these days ... plus I usually find that phase pretty boring.

 

[Peaster]

Highly impressive (again) I just had a look at my stats from GOTM #129 (the mediterranean map), and even then, when I was trying for ICS I only had 33 cities.

Thanks! I found this map to be very ICS friendly, with lots of grass and enough forests on the island and on the southern continent. But somehow things clicked and I'm not sure I could repeat these results without some luck. The hut-chariot cleared over half the island for early ICS. By the time that was done, LH became possible. The AI remaining on the isle did not cause trouble, and were actually useful for tribute. The only serious early bump was the Mongols.

But what about the Celts? It seems like you took them out in the second turn of the game, and to my experience, they respawn as someone else (in this case Romans or Russians). Were they eliminated by Mongols?

Not sure. I didn't have Marco or northern maps that early. I don't recall any messages about Mongol victories, so I'm guessing the Celts respawned as Celts. If I have some time with the Cheat feature, I'll check on this.

Update: Revealing the map in a 3350BC save shows the Celts have settled up north. So, it seems they respawned as themselves. I am pretty sure I have seen that kind of thing happen before, but would agree that a change of civ happens more often.

I also just "cheated" a 140AD save to peek at Karakorum. It was producing a whopping 23 arrows per turn, far more than I guessed, and far more than any other city including the English. No wonder my trade bonuses dropped so far after the capture. Of course it is possible to compute these things during the game if you have the time and patience, but I didn't this time.

In my game I wanted to keep my neighbours alive in the early game to prevent respawns and leave the southern continents uninhabitated. A lesson learned from my first try on #135, when I took out Babylonians early and Zulus won the space race.
Here are my next 1000 years:

Looks like a good game so far, and you seem well-prepared to carry out your plans.

I don't know for sure whether it's better to keep them alive or not. I decided to "get big fast" because that's what I always do, and also to prep for the big mean Mongols. With that in mind I wanted more room on the island. It worked, but I was somewhat lucky that the southern lands were mostly vacant when my flotillas got there, and that the Mongols didn't wipe me out quickly in the north.

BTW - Forgot to mention building Mike's and capturing GL in my log, but both events were after 420AD. Getting the GL was not planned. The French built it in Orleans on the same turn that I captured that city.

 

[Inkerman]

Yes, very well done Peaster on an impressive conquest.

For my game, as might be guessed from my posts on the game thread, I did, albeit after some thought, build in the gaps and not eject any AI civs off the Pentagon. So it was much like Major Advantage's game.

We differed in that I went straight for republic. I think my game stands comparison at the 1000 BC stats, but I'm not so sure about 1AD. But you can judge... I will split into separate posts...

4000- Found London, start Settler, Alphabet.
3750- Alphabet-> CoL.
3450- RB last 6 shields on settler.
3400- Celts and Ams appear. Settler builds and pops hut - archers.
Peace with both others, neither wants Alphabet.
3350- CoL->Writing. Will repeat size 1 trick by disbanding archers.
Settler moves to road a square, delaying next city.
3250- IPRB 5 shields. Disband archer. Give CoL to Celts and Ams. Ams have BW.
3000- Another settler.
2950- Found York, on north side of Pentagon.
2750- Settler built in London. Found Portsmouth on south-west side of Pentagon. All cities are size 1.
2700- Writing->Literacy. Agree peace and give CoL to Babyls.
Give Writing to Ams and Celts.
2500- Meet Aztecs, agree peace and give Writing, they have Mapmaking.
Give Writing to Babyls.
2400- We have become Mighty.
2350- Give CoL to Aztecs.
2300- Celts brag about Mysticism. London completes settler.
2250- Celts appear offering alliance (and wanting us to break with Babyls.)
Germans appear and we trade writing to get CB. Also give CoL.
2100- Make alliance with Aztecs, to allow settler movement. (Celts refused.)
2050- Literacy -> Republic. York builds settler.
2000- Found Liverpool on north-west side of Pentagon.

All 4 cities are size 1. We have 29g, and 5 techs. We are Mighty.

 

[Inkerman]

1900- Portsmouth builds settlers.
1850- Aztecs get Literacy from Babyls.
1550- Found Hull.
Mongols start Colossus. Aztecs develop Currency.
1500-

All cities size 1 except York is 2. All but Hull now building Temple. We are Strong.

1450- Can't see way to delay discovery to OEDO year of 1250... ask Aztecs for gift, they give Mapmaking!
1250- Discover Republic -> Mysticism.
Swap Republic to Aztecs for Currency.
Swap Republic to Celts for Mysticism.
Give Republic to Babyls and Ams (swapping maps.)
Disband warriors in London. Buy temples in York, Portsmouth and Liverpool.

1200- Start on Trade.
Give Republic and Mapmaking to Germans, swap maps. Need raise money for Hull's Temple, so cut research.
1100- Not enough money and Hull is about to grow.
1050- Hull grows to 2, we spend 68 of our 70g to buy temple, so don't need entertainer.

1000 BC Stats:
15g. Mighty (and spotless.) Republic. Total cost 5 Temples.
1 settler, 4 warrior, 1 dip.
Pop: 11 in 5 cities.
9 techs.

 

[Inkerman]

Have chosen to keep warriors in case of Barb attack, all cities being on coast.

925- Mongols nearly done Colossus.
900- Karakorum builds Colossus.
875- Discover Trade->Philosophy.
Give Trade to Celts - swap maps.
Give Trade to Babyls - swap maps.
Give Trade to Aztecs - swap maps.
850- Aztecs get Mysticism from Celts.
825- Disband warrior in York as Dip appears.
800- Give Trade to Ams, share maps.
775- Give Mysticism to Babyls.
750- Caravan, Liverpool-London, Wine, for 20g.
725- Philosophy age dawns in Hull. Philosophy -> Medicine -> Masonry.
Caravan, London-Babylon, Hides, for 44g.

700- Mongols start Great Library.
675- Give Trade to Germans - swap maps.
650- RB marketplace in London.
625- York builds trireme - uncovers its whale...
600- ...and uncovers Liverpool's whale. Rehome settlers to Hull (from Portsmouth.)
550- Caravan, Hull-Tenochtitlan, Copper, for 56g.
N.B. Ams have overseas city already.
525- Discover Masonry -> Construction
Give Philosophy to Celts (2).
Give Philosophy to Babyls(3).
Give Philosophy to Germans(0).
Give Philosophy to Aztecs(1).
Give Philosophy to Ams (4) - swap maps to see New York on southern continent.

500 BC Stats:
129g. Mighty (and spotless.) Republic. Total cost 6 (5 Temples, 1 market.)
1 settler, 2 warrior, 1 trireme, 2 dip.
Pop: 17 in 5 cities. London has 2 routes. Hull has a foreign route.
13 techs.
Mongol Karakorum has Colossus.

Nobody has Horseback Riding - so no wheel, which is on path to Sanitation.
Probably best plan is Lighthouse and southern colony now.

Lux to 30%, so London will grow. Mainly caravan activity.

475- WLTPD London.
450- London=Size 4
425- London=size 5.
Caravan, London-Babylon, Hides, for 72g.
400- Aztecs develop Monarchy, and destroy Barb who has landed next to them.
375- Construction -> HBR.
London = size 7 - that's the lot for now.
Lux to 20%, London manages with one entertainer. Other cities all size 3.
Consider whether to deliver London Hides to Babylon, or use in Wonder.
Delivery gives science benefit (get double value), but already have the route.
350- Caravan, London-Babylon, Hides, for 88g.
RB LH in London, 176g.
Give Construction to all local people.
Get Am maps again to see how south continent is.
They have 3 cities there now - recent two are result of hut pops.
325- London builds Lighthouse, trireme sets off with 2 settlers.
Mongols nearly done GL.
300- Give Medicine to Celts(2).
Give Medicine to Babyls(3).
Give Medicine, Mysticism, Currency to Germans(0).
Give Medicine to Aztecs(1).
Give Medicine and Currency to Ams(4).
275- Karakorum builds GL.
Germans demand Alphabet - we give it.
250- German wine caravan from Berlin arrives in Hull.
Horseback Riding -> Wheel.
175- Ams start Pyramids.
Caravan, Portsmouth-Babylon, Hides, for 100g.
150- Spurn chance to pop hut in south. Decide to try caravan to Mongols.
Caravan, York-London, Salt, for 40g.
125- Discover Wheel -> Engineering.
Land settlers - see unexpected hut.
100- Found Coventry at 115,89.
75- Liverpool trireme sets off from York with van and man.
Passes an inbound Mongol trireme - time to spend money - get it down to 59g.
50- Mongols land next to Berlin (on the mined hill.)
25- Mongol trireme continues into river and attacks London - caravan destroyed.
We pay 50g to Germans so they declare war on Mongols (we had 66g).

1AD. Mongols start Shakespeare's Theatre.
Discover Engineering-> Sanitation.
Caravan Hull-Tenochtitlan, Dye, for 88g.
Bribe (wounded) Mongol horse for 82g.
Lux to 30% as London gets short of food, and we don't want accidents from displaced workers.

1 AD Stats:
33g. Mighty (and spotless.) Republic. Total cost 6 (5 Temples, 1 market.)
1 settler, 2 warrior, 1 trireme, 2 dip.
Pop: 22 in 6 cities (5 on Pentagon). London has 3 routes. Some others have 1.
17 techs.
We have LH. Mongol Karakorum has Colossus and GL.

 

[haleewud]

I started the game last week. I am well into the AD years. I don't think my numbers are very impressive but will post logs at some point.

I just wanted to highlight one thing that happened in my game.

I decided to leave all of the AI on the pentagon in order to keep the South continent empty. Of course, my plans don't always work out. I just used the cheat mode to verify what really happened (of course, I am well past this point and the cheat moded did not real anything of importance).

In my game at between 2450 and 2400 BC, One Barb Archer landed next to Cardiff. On the Celtic turn (2400), the warrior in Cardiff attacked the Archer and died. So, between 2400 and 2350BC, the Archer captured undefended, size 2 Cardiff and destroyed the Celtics. Now it appears that the Barbs are technically the last 'player' for the year (or maybe the very first of the new year). Either way, the White civilization respawned on the South Continent as the Celtics with 2 settlers next to a hut (directly south from the pentagon). One of the settlers founded the new Cardiff and the second popped the hut and got a Chariot.

By the time I reached the South continent in 525BC, the Celtics already had 12 cities. The Mongols at that time only had 9 cities. Of course, I didn't know this at the time and I still haven't been able to obtain the full map of either civilization (although I haven't really tried very hard).

One last note. I bribed the size 3 Barbarian Cardiff in 1650 for 156g. It had 3 Archers fortified in the city.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I had the exact same plan in GOTM 135 and something similar happened. Celts took Babylon early on. Zulu respawned on the north only to be wiped out by Mongols after a while giving rise to Japanese in the South. Japanese thrived in the South and were a potential threat near the end of the game.

Once again my plan is to keep all my rivals on the pentagon but who knows what will happen.

It looks like so far Peaster is the only one who opted for wiping out the Pentagon rivals.

 

[Inkerman]

I agree. It seems in some games an AI civ gets established in the south, and sometimes it doesn't because, and I like this a lot, it may or may not happen that:

1) Barbs knockout Celts or Aztecs.
2) Celts knockout Babyls.
3) Celts or Americans send off settlers.

I wonder if anything we do influences this?

In my #135 I sent the White Civ there (via a rebound from the North courtesy of the Mongols) but it came to nothing, and Barbs sent the Yellow Civ which did come to something. In my #137 the Americans expanded there, to my surprise.

 

[haleewud]

Last night when I was checking my facts, there was one time that I turned the cheat mode on before hitting the end of turn for the Barbs to capture Cardiff. I was hoping to 'see' the creation of the new Cardiff. When the turn played out, I didn't notice a new Cardiff. When I looked at the diplomacy window, I saw that the Russians had actually respawed. They respawned in the north well to the west of the Mongols. They also did not have a particularly good spot and did not found their city on the first turn. Based on "reveal Russian Map", it looked like both settlers moved the same way.

 

[Peaster]

Interesting that most people want to keep the AI on the island. It looks like Major Advantage, Inkerman and Ali are playing for a space race ... not sure about haleewud ... so maybe that explains the difference in thinking.

In EC games, the human can gradually dominate the AI. The size of an AI civ doesn't matter much, because the AI can't coordinate its forces to launch any real attack. And once an AI capitol falls, the rest is usually pretty quick and easy regardless of AI size. The size of the human civ is far more important to the results.

Based on that, I wanted more room on the island, regardless of the resulting respawns. And like everyone else, I wanted to get off the island asap. My French respawn in the south and the Persian one up north had about 12 cities each, like haleewud's report, but those numbers weren't big problems in my game.

These ideas may not apply so well to landing games, not sure. Also, without the chariot I got from the first hut, removing the AI probably would've been costly. Not sure what I'd have done then, but probably would've researched HBR much earlier and tried a similar approach with 4-5 horses. Also, I'd probably stay in monarchy and demand tribute almost every turn.

 

[Major Advantage]

I agree. It seems in some games an AI civ gets established in the south, and sometimes it doesn't because, and I like this a lot, it may or may not happen that:

1) Barbs knockout Celts or Aztecs.
2) Celts knockout Babyls.
3) Celts or Americans send off settlers.

I wonder if anything we do influences this?

3b) Babylon sends off settlers (on triremes without Lighthouse, but that is another point)
4) Respawns respawn, but where? In my attempts on #135, there were 3, 2 north, 1 south, in # 137 there were two, 1 north, 1 south. Intuitively, I would say the best way to respawn a civ would be to let them start at a nice location, suitable for settlement without too much company nearby, so south should be first choice.

Interesting that most people want to keep the AI on the island. It looks like Major Advantage, Inkerman and Ali are playing for a space race ... not sure about haleewud ... so maybe that explains the difference in thinking. [...]
Based on that, I wanted more room on the island, regardless of the resulting respawns.

Right [...] and agree! I decided to gor for space, since (at least to me) dealing with respawns during a conquest-game is even more annoying than dealing with the fine-tuning of trade and spaceship-construction. If heading for conquest, there is no reason to keep the neighbours, I also planned to maybe take their cities at some point later in the game (when the southern colony was healthy and expanding). However, the americans were peaceful, friendly, helpful (did some roading/irrgating in my territory) and were a reliable trading partner for my southern colony, especially for gold. So they were more helpful than one more of my cities.

It turned out that London became my SSC with some helpers around, there was a huge southern colony (that's why I wanted no company there) for trade, expansion, city science, wonder and spaceship building, and a small northern colony, mostly serving as port city for deliveries to Mongolia.

@Inkerman: Interesting idea to try early republic on this game. Not sure if it will pay off though, but time will tell.

Here are my next 500 years:
1AD plan: befriend with mongols by declaring war on germany, conquer Berlin, start oversea trade

40 2 Crusaders ready, hail Mongols, now we are at war
60 Hail Mongols, break german alliance, peace, maps
80 barb horses from hut, 1 bribed
100 Use Mongols to declare war on germany, 1 crusader lost in attack; southern huts: AT (Norwich & 8 Barb horses)
140 Legion from hut
160 Conventry bribed back 52g, drop off phalanx & catapult on hill outside Berlin
180 Catapult fails, one defender killed with crusader, legion from hut disbanded in the wild
200 get IW from Mongols, still no alliance
220 Liverpool captured by barbs, some units lost, Berlin conquered (90g), Germans destroyed
240 Meet French on southern continent, peace, crusader from hut, Liverpool bribed back
300 Banking from hut (could have gotten that from Mongols...)
320 Mongols develop engineering and start on KRC, so no tech trade; plan: turn London SSC (Shake's & Copernicus), build pyramids (and later Leo) on southern cobtinent, aim for inventon & explosives
340 hut: 50g
360 100g gift from Celts, Babylonians build pyramids on southern cont, might be bribable, dye(d) 368g
380 University-> chem
(Celts steal Math, we don't care)
400 subvert Babylonian Ur (2*192g), 41g and Pyramids in return, NONE crusader from hut
420 Wine(d) 468g
460 Next deliveries ready, but mongols demand 200g tribute, refuse, war
480 Chem -> Bridge, London builds Copernicus, Copper(d) into Karakorum 472g, nomads and crusader from hut

Stats at 500 AD
pop: 1.35M; cities: 23; techs: 27; gold: 722; government: Rep. TR: 0D5F Wonders: Pyr, LH, HG, Michelangelo, Copernicus
units: 7 settler, 18 army, 3 boat, 4 dips, 4 vans
Celt: Enth, allied
Babylon: Neutral, allied
France: Cooperative, peace
Aztec: Enth, peace
America: Enth, peace
Mongols: enraged, war; 10 cities, 25 techs; Colossus, Oracle

plan: Bribe a mongol city for engineering and (hopefully) peace, build Shakespeare in London, go for Invention, Leonardo, explosives, democracy

 

[Inkerman]

...during which time we should have swapped more techs with the Mongols.

Major Advantage comments:

@Inkerman: Interesting idea to try early republic on this game.

My immediate feeling reading this was reminiscent of the reaction of the (highly political) government minister in a well-known British TV comedy ("Yes Minister") when his Permanent Secretary described a decision as "courageous". It is probably not a good idea at all.

I would say there wasn't a lot of calculation behind the choice.

Peaster is correct that I had a landing in mind. I do think Peaster's EC play is very strong here. I did think about EC, and decided not to do that. I will own up to perhaps not having thought it through right - or maybe for my ability with EC I did?

In favour I noted there was space for a lot of cities on the Pentagon. My estimation though was that I could only reasonably remove two of the other five civs, making space harder to come by. Whereas Peaster achieved three, and took one city as part of that. I didn't have any confidence I would then be able to conquer before the Mongols got the mid-game techs that I have found very awkward to overcome in the past (admittedly when I had less experience.) A factor in that was doubt over the ability to maintain happiness if the Mongols took HG early (in my GotM 135 they took it at the time Peaster built it in this game.)

Incidentally Peaster comments that in certain circumstances he would be after tribute virtually every turn. I have a vague memory that every eight turns is thought most efficient?

So anyway it looked like trying EC might well turn out to be an experience you would all find a good laugh. And this time I didn't want that.

So then it is late conquest or a landing. Either way tech advances seem what is wanted, and I wanted to be in second place in the power table for that. (It will be interesting to see how long Major Advantage stayed "Mighty" in his game.)

But I should have thought this through more fully I think, and swapping more techs with the Mongols in this part of the game would likely have sped things along. As it was I was playing more cautiously, and slowing them at the cost of slowing me too.

As regards another big decision described in the game thread - yes I preferred Lighthouse to waiting for Navigation and was happy to forgo Colossus for it.

1AD. Mongols start Shakespeare's Theatre.
Discover Engineering-> Sanitation.
Caravan Hull-Tenochtitlan, Dye, for 88g.
Bribe (wounded) Mongol horse for 82g.
Lux to 30% as London gets short of food, and we don't want accidents from displaced workers.
20- Decline Am request for Engineering because of GL.
Caravan London-Karakorum, Hides, for 204g.
Dip establishes embassy with Mongols - 22 techs, 10 cities.
40- Discover Sanitation-> Banking. We have 18 techs.
60- Aztecs develop Maths.
80- Coventry civil disorder through oversight.
100- Mongol government overthrown.
Caravan, London-Hull, Gems, for 108g.
120- Mongol changed to Republic.
Coventry builds Temple.
140-
160- Mongol trireme attacks our non-vet trireme off York, and we survive.
Meanwhile our vet Trireme (LH) is off to Karakorum again.
London builds Colosseum, WLTPD (it is size 7).
180- London=size 8, rush aqueduct. Deal with hut in Coventry's radius using a worker.
200- Found Warwick (112,92).
220- Mongols develop Engineering and start KRC.
Discover Banking -> Maths.
Swap Banking to Aztecs(1) for Maths. Mongols get Maths from GL.
Caravan, London-Karakorum, Dye, for 364g.
Spend lots on rushing Bank.
240- Start on Astronomy.
London builds Bank, and is now size 11.
Start on wonder (not enough food to need sewer yet)
260- London = size 12.
280-
300-
320- Mongol Basra completes KRC.
Americans abandon Pyramids.
Warwick completes Temple.
Discover Astronomy -> University.
London builds Shakespeare's Theatre. Mongols change to HG.
Sell Colosseum.
Give Wheel to Celts, swap maps, they have built city near Karakorum.
340- Aztecs develop Astronomy, Mongols get it from GL.
Give Astronomy to Babyls.
360- Ams start Pyramids.
380- Mongols nearly done HG.
400- Karakorum builds HG.
London builds Library, starts on sewers.
Sell London Temple.
420- Aztecs get Iron from Germans.
440-
460- Mongols develop Feudalism, and start Sun Tzu.
Trireme gets to Coventry, drops cargo and picks it up.
480- Give Engineering to Aztecs.
London builds sewers and grows to 13. Starts Copernicus.
Caravan, York-Warwick, Wine, 160g (neither city is big or specially high trade.)
500- Discover University->ToG.
London is size 14.

500 Stats
512g. Mighty (and spotless.) Republic. Total cost 15 (6 Temples, 9 bldgs in London.)
4 settler, 3 warrior, 1 Horse (NON), 2 trireme, 4 dip, 12 caravan.
Pop: 34 in 7 cities. London has 3 foreign routes. Other cities have 8 routes.
22 techs.
Lighthouse and Shakespeare's.
Mongols have Colossus, Great Library, HG and KRC.

Celts (0): Enthusiastic, Peace. 2? cities.
Babylonians (3): Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city.
Germans (2): Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city.
Aztecs (1): Worshipful, Allied. 1 city.
Americans (4): Enthusiastic, Peace. 4+ cities.
Mongols (6): Enraged, War. 12 cities, 26 techs, 1120g.

Renaissance looms, with a drop in trade bonuses. May start one or two more cities in the south, but priority is London as SSC.

 

[Major Advantage]

...during which time we should have swapped more techs with the Mongols.

Major Advantage comments:

Interesting idea to try early republic on this game.

My immediate feeling reading this was reminiscent of the reaction of the (highly political) government minister in a well-known British TV comedy ("Yes Minister") when his Permanent Secretary described a decision as "courageous".
It is probably not a good idea at all.

Are you saying that because it was a great idea?
I indeed planned to allow your interpretation on what I wrote, however, I wouldn't say early republic was wrong in general. It just needs to be played very carefully (as described by Solo's ELG). I went for "robust monarchy", more cities, and the very helpful happiness wonders (HG and Michelangelo, Pyramids for faster growth soon after) instead, preparing for Power Democracy.
Right now I am trying to build up more score while my spaceship is heading for Alpha Centauri. My game really picked up pace when I got set for democracy.

Here is my rather undetailed log for the next 500 years, where I was mainly trying to get ready for PD.

500 AD: plan: Bribe a mongol city for engineering and (hopefully) peace, build Shakespeare in London, go for Invention, Leonardo, explosives, democracy

520 Freshly founded Khanbalyk bribed (49g), 11 in return and engineering, they demand 150g, refuse, still at war! That was unexpected... attack trireme, lost, 50g from hut, barbs from hut
540 Hail Mongols, they ask for chem, granted, cease fire, peace, gift all techs
560 Bridge -> Invention
580 Beads(d) 256g
600 Several riots
660 Inv->Gunpowder, wine(d)285g
700 Spice(d)246g
(Mongols develop feudalism, work on navigation)
720 Gunp. -> Explosives, London builds Shakespeare
780 Coal(u) 184g
800 Expl.->San. Leonardo built & 18 settlers become engineers, copper(d) 352g
840 Mongols have Navigation but do not want to share... not even use the "working-on-wonder-excuse"..., short of gold by rushbuying, get 75 from Celts by begging
860 San.->Nav
880 Beads(d) 288g
900 All gold (except for 6) spent on Sewer in London
940 Beads(u) 142g
960 Nav->physics, think about using SoL for communism and less corruption...but rather demo when boats are happy
1000 dye(d) from London 436g, route to Cardiff replaced, now all comm. blocked

Stats at 1000 AD
pop: 4.75M; cities: 37; techs: 34; gold: 412; government: Rep. TR: 0D10F Wonders: Pyr, LH, HG, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Leonardo
units: 29 engineer, 22 army, 3 boat, 4 dips, 6 vans
Celt: Enth, allied
Babylon: Neutral, allied
France: Cooperative, peace
Aztec: Enth, peace
America: Enth, peace
Mongols: Enth, peace; 12 cities, 35 techs; Colossus, Oracle, Sun Tzu, KRC, MPE

plan: Magnetism, Democracy, start big trade

 

[Inkerman]

Yes, the play in this period was not as "careful" as it could have been. To follow the strategy properly the AI, especially the Mongols, should be included not excluded.

540- Babyls brag about Polytheism (Mongols do not have it and we don't want it.)
London = size 14.
560- London = size 15. Lux to 30%.
580- London = size 16.
600- London = size 17. Lux to 40%.
620- London = size 18.
640- Discover ToG -> Economics.
London = size 19, builds Copernicus.
Caravan, Coventry-London, Silk, for 416g.
660- Discover Economics->Chemistry
London = size 20.
Caravan, Warwick-London, Wool, for 360g.
680- London maxes for now at 21.
700- Discover Chemistry-> Invention.
720- Mongols nearly done Sun Tzu. Mongols develop Invention.
London builds University.

Looking back, at this point we should have paid reparations to Mongols, humbly sought peace, and swapped some techs for Invention.

740- Samarkand completes Sun Tzu. Another city changes to Leonardo.
The notes say this too is Samarkand.
Found Dover on the south-east side of Pentagon.
Found Oxford (118,96) near others on southern continent.
Need beware happiness as this is 9th city.
Rush StEx in London.
760- Ams nearly done Pyramids.
London builds StEx.
Mongol ship is off Liverpool.
780- Mongols horsemen land, demand we fight the Germans, and kill German chariot.
New York builds Pyramids.
Discover Invention -> Democracy.
Pay 137g for Mongol horse (unfortunately it is not NON), it kills the other one.
Our vet trireme sinks the Mongol one.
800- Mongols change to Monarchy.
820- London builds City Walls.
Establish Embassies with Aztecs and Babyls - they have 22 techs.
Swap Invention to Aztecs for Iron Working.
Give Invention to Babyls, Celts, Germans.
Celts still have Kells on Northern Continent.
Start on Newton's College.
Babyls have 23 techs incl Monotheism. Aztecs have 23.
Mongols are on 27.
840- Mongols get University from GL.
Americans start Marco Polo.
Oxford builds Temple.
860- Discover Democracy -> Gunpowder. Revolution, become Democracy.
Need to rehome triremes to London - lux need to be 30% in meantime.
Caravan, Coventry-London, Wool(und), for 96g.
880- London builds Isaac Newton's College.
900- Discover Gunpowder -> Explosives.
Caravan, Coventry-London, Dye(und), for 96g.
920- Mongols nearly done Leonardo. Mongols become Republic.
Germans brag about Bridge Building.
We swap Sanitation to Germans to get Bridge Building. Mongols get both from GL.
Give Sanitation to Babyls, Aztecs.
Disband trireme Liverpool.
940- Basra completes Leonardo.
Aztec government overthrown.
Am capital to Chicago on sdouthern continent.
Discover Explosives-> Metallurgy.
960- Celts attack and destroy a caravan.
Babyls get Pottery from Celts.
Mongols get Polytheism from GL.
Pollution near London.
Horseman lost attacking Celt chariot.
Swap Iron Working to Babyls to get Monotheism. Mongols get from GL.
980- Celts kill warriors in Hull (population decrease).
Discover Metallurgy->Conscription.
Counterattack Celts.
Give Invention to Ams.
1000- Mongols develop Gunpowder.
Aztecs develop Seafaring.
More pollution near London.

1000 Stats
35g. Mighty (and spotless.) Democracy. Total cost 25.
5 settler, 1 engineer, 1 archer, 4 musketeer, 1 Horse (NON), 3 crusader, 6 dip, 13 caravan.
Pop: 47 in 9 cities. London has 3 foreign routes. Other cities have 12 routes.
33 techs.
Lighthouse, Shakespeare's, Copernicus, Newton.
Mongols have Colossus, Great Library, HG, Sun Tzu, KRC, Leonardo.
Ams have Pyramids.

Celts (0): Enthusiastic, Peace. 2? cities.
Babylonians (3): Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city, 26 techs, 729g.
Germans (2): Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city.
Aztecs (1): Worshipful, Allied. 2 cities, 25 techs, 366g.
Americans (4): Enthusiastic, Peace. 4+ cities.
Mongols (6): Enraged, War. 14 cities, 33 techs, 2158g.

 

[Inkerman]

1040- Mongols start Michelangelo.
We capture Cardiff with crusaders, size 2, and 110g. No buildings so disorder. Celts not eliminated as they have Kells in the north.
We make peace with Celts.
Swap University to Aztecs for Seafaring. Mongols get seafaring from GL.
1060-Discover Conscription -> Navigation.
Give Seafaring to Germans, Babyls.
Establish embassy with Germans.
Caravan, Coventry-London, Salt, for 188g.
1080- Caravan, Warwick-London, Silk, for 315g.
Give Gunpowder to Babyls, Banking to Germans.
Aztecs want Democracy and Conscription, neither of which Mongols have yet.
1100- Coventry builds market.
Discover Navigation -> Physics.
There are two Am caravans by Warwick.
1120- Babyls develop Bridge Building.
German government overthrown.
Am gold from New York arrives in Oxford.
1140- Babyls government overthrown.
Germans become Despotism.
Am cloth from Atlanta arrives in Oxford.
London builds Michelangelo's Chapel, Mongols abandon.
Discover Physics -> Magnetism.
Pollution near London.
1160- Mongols start MPE.
Mongols develop Chivalry.
Babyls become Despotism.
Give University to Germans.
Give University to Babyls.
Give Democracy to Babyls, Mongols get from GL.
Give Democracy to Aztecs.
Give Democracy to Ams, share maps - they have 8 cities.
Give Gunpowder to Germans, Celts.
1180- Celtic capital moved to Kells.
Discover Magnetism (cancel LH) -> Electricity.
1200- Mongols start SoL.
Mongols get Chemistry from GL.
London completes harbour.
1220- Discover Electricity -> Steam Engine. This expires the Mongol's GL. Frigate no longer available.
Give Navigation to Babyls, Germans.
Give Navigation and Bridge Building to Aztecs.
Establish Embassy with Americans - now have all except Celts, who are irrelevant.
Caravan Cardiff-Washington, Dye, for 24g (that was not worth it.)
Caravan Liverpool-London, Copper, for 32g.
1240- Mongols nearly done MPE.
Mongols become Democracy.
Mongols get Navigation from Germans, in swap for democracy (I should have given it to them.)
Ams nearly done MPE.
Give Wheel to Babyls, HBR to Aztecs.
Give Navigation to Ams.
Galleon sails from London.
1260- Aleppo completes MPE, Ams change to SoL, and then abandon.
Ams become Democracy.
Discover Steam Engine -> Railroad.
Kill Mongol explorer.
1280- Aztecs become Republic.
Destroyer sails from London.
1300- Babyl government overthrown.
Ams start SoL.
Give seafaring to Ams, and they steal Physics.
Have to rush harbour in York because of German manoeuvres and food shortage.
Give Physics to Germans, Babyls, Aztecs.
1320- Mongols develop Leadership.
Babyls become Democracy.
Notice we are only Strong now - Ams must be ahead of us - confirmed by Foreign Minister. This probably cost us the advance this turn.
Give Bridge Building, Astronomy and Wheel to Ams.
Destroyer sinks Mongol caravel between Pentagon and Karakorum - I expect they can easily build another.
Pop hut next to Oxford - 100g.
1340- Babyls offer 450g to fight Aztecs.
Discover Railroad -> Industrialization.
1360- Babyls get Engineering from Aztecs, swap for Gunpowder.
Babyls get Maths from Aztecs, swap for Wheel.
Oxford builds market.
London completes Darwin.
Discover Industrialization -> Corporation -> Steel.
Give 7 techs to Babyls and Aztecs (RR, Ind, Con,Steam, Econ, Mag, Elec)
Give 10 techs to Germans (above 7, plus Engineering, Monotheism and Maths.)
Holding back Explosives, Corporation.
Liverpool settler joins Cardiff (gently bringing in engineers instead.)
1380- Ams get Railroad from Aztecs, swap for Chemistry.
Caravan, London-NewYork, Coal, for 350g.
Caravan, London-NewYork, Wine(und), for 144g.
1400- Ask Babyls to remove troops - they do.
1420- Mongols nearly done SoL.
Aztec government overthrown.
Warwick builds market.
Discover Steel -> Electronics.
1440- Tabriz builds SoL. Mongols change to Magellan, so do Ams.
Germans government overthrown.
Aztecs become Monarchy.
London builds barracks.
Caravan, London-Coventry, Gems, for 196g.
1460- Barbs attack Babylon.
Babyl government overthrown.
Germans become Democracy.
Ams develop Engineering.
London completes Magellan, Mongols abandon, Ams switch to Oracle.
Banks built in Coventry and Oxford.
Lux to 40% for some growt in the southern cities.
1480- Babyls become Republic.
Several WLTPD.
Discover Electronics -> Refrigeration.
Destroyer shells Mongol coast and destroys catapult.
1500- Mongols develop Physics.
Am Wool from San Francisco arrives in Oxford.
Give Navigation to Celts.

1500 Stats
1185g. Strong (and spotless.) Democracy. Total cost 40.
4 settler, 3 engineer, 1 archer (NON), 5 musketeer, 1 Horse (NON), 5 crusader, 1 galleon, 5 dip, 8 caravan, 7 freight.
Pop: 66 in 10 cities. London has 3 foreign routes. Other cities have 18 routes.
46 techs.
We have Lighthouse, Michelangelo, Shakespeare's, Copernicus, Magellan, Newton, Darwin.
Mongols have Colossus, Great Library, HG, Sun Tzu, KRC, MPE, Leonardo. SoL.
Ams have Pyramids.

Celts (0): Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city in north.
Babylonians (2): Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city, 43 techs, 1121g.
Germans (2): Enthusiastic, Peace. 1 city, 42 techs, 473g.
Aztecs (3): Enthusiastic, Allied. 2 cities, 42 techs, 682g.
Americans (5): Enthusiastic, Peace. 13 cities, 33 techs, 972g.
Mongols (6): Enraged, War. 14 cities, 40 techs, 2246g.

Will try growing to get back to be own key civ. Lux to 50%.
We need Leadership, which Mongols have, think prefer make it ourselves, or perhaps espionage, rather than giving valuable other techs.

1510- Build markets in Portsmouth and Cardiff.
Give electronics to Babyls, Aztecs, Germans.
Also give Chemistry to Germans.
Caravan, Oxford-London, Silk, for 260g.

1520- Mongol government overthrown.
Cardiff builds market,.
London builds transport.
Destroyer shells Mongol coast killing settler.
Disband crusader into harbour at Cardiff.

1530- Mongols become fundamentalist.
Discover Refrigeration -> Communism.
Cardiff builds Harbour.
Our growth has taken us above the Ams again.
Give Explosives to Aztecs, Babyls, Germans.
Babyls still need Chemistry, Aztecs need Metallurgy.

1540- Ams develop Industrialization, and change to Suffrage.
Oxford, Warwick, Coventry all build aqueducts.
Give Corporation and Chemistry to Babyls.
Give Monotheism and Corporation to Aztecs.
Freight, London-Oxford, Coal, for 345g.
Disband musketeer into harbour in Hull.

1550- Just misjudged discovery.
Allowing the three southern cities to grow past 8, but the Pentagon cities all stay at 7 or 8.

1566- Babyl government overthrown.
Discover Communism -> Espionage.
London builds supermarket, and grows to 24.
We land freight near New York, Ams demand Sanitation, we give it, and they swap maps.
Found Reading at (128,94) - uses a settler.

1570- Mongols start Oracle.
Babyls become Democracy.
The three large southern cities reach size 11, and we reduce lux to 20%.
Freight, London-New York, Wine(und), for 236g.
Freight, Dover-Coventry, Beads, for 120g.
Freight, Hull-Coventry, Beads, for 156g.

1580- Mongols develop Metallurgy.
Discover Espionage -> Atomic Theory (as Babyls are researching Refining).
Freight, Coventry-London, Copper, for 242g.

1590- Freight, Warwick-Cardiff, Gold, for 168g.
Give Navigation to Celts, and share maps.
Found Birmingham, on coast, (122,88).

1600- Mongols have nearly done Oracle.
Discover Atomic Theory -> Refining.
Build vet riflemen in London and Liverpool.

1610- Karakorum builds Oracle.
Babyls develop Refining.
Ams develop Economics, and have nearly done Suffrage, they change to Adam Smith.
We land on Mongol shore again, and say we won't pay 300g.
Establish embassy with Celts at Kells. They have 2 cities and 26 techs.
Investigate Nishapur - 3 musketeers and a Bank and Library in city of 13.
Both spies captured before they can steal a tech (there was no defending dip.)
Freight Portsmouth-Nishapur, Dye, 216g.
Give Babyls Steel to get Refining.
Give Refining and Steel to Germans and Aztecs.
Rush factory in London.

1620- Philadelphia builds Adam Smith. Also they change to Suffrage.
Start on Combustion.
London completes factory and starts on hydro plant.
Freight, Liverpool-New York, Spice, for 450g.

1630- Ams and Babyls sign peace treaty.
Discover Combustion -> Automobile.
Freight, Dover-Atlanta, Dye, for 212g.
Caravan, Warwick-London, Wine(und), for 86g.
Rush Hydro Plant London.

1640- London completes Hydro Plant. puts us top on manufacturing.
Discover Automobile-> Flight.
Destroyer, escorting transport laden with spies and freight, attacks Barb frigate and becomes vet.
Freight, Dover-Atlanta, Copper, for 224g.

1650- Pollution near London

1660- Mongols develop Conscription.
London builds Superhighways.
Discover Flight -> Radio
Another landing of spies on Mongol coast.
Investigate Samarkand (13), already has a rifleman and one nearing completion.
First spy captured, but second one manages to steal leadership, before being captured.
Freight, York-Samarkand, Dye, for 139g.
Investigate Kabul (14), already has rifleman and University part complete.
She destroys the granary and gets back to York.

This is the end-game now. There is still a lot of play left, in turns and real-life, and no doubt there are some turns at stake, but the path to a spaceship and a civ of sufficient size to build it quickly unthreatened by the two big AI civs are assured.

I think, subject as ever to wisdom of esteemed fellow contributors, that the "early republic" approach provided a satisfactory strategy in this game. In other, "more careful", hands it could have been a bit quicker, basically by including the Mongols rather than excluding them.

Of course it was never ending the game quicker than the EC which we have seen described by Peaster. I suspect that it is similar speed to the robust monarchy and power democracy described by Major Advantage, and the individual player and the chance events that affect settlement growth in this scenario will make the difference.

So yes in fact I am happy with Major Advantage's use of "interesting". I think in his hands it may have gone a bit quicker than it did in mine (and there are other hands that can do it better too.) But it went pretty well, and I certainly enjoyed playing it. The middle game, managing relations and trade with 8 cities: the SSC/Capital, 4 other cities on the Pentagon, and 3 cities in the south, gave a good quality of play for the time needed. I don't expect it will win any prizes, but I would do it again.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Interesting that most people want to keep the AI on the island. It looks like Major Advantage, Inkerman and Ali are playing for a space race ... not sure about haleewud ... so maybe that explains the difference in thinking.

In EC games, the human can gradually dominate the AI. The size of an AI civ doesn't matter much, because the AI can't coordinate its forces to launch any real attack. And once an AI capitol falls, the rest is usually pretty quick and easy regardless of AI size. The size of the human civ is far more important to the results.

Based on that, I wanted more room on the island, regardless of the resulting respawns. And like everyone else, I wanted to get off the island asap. .

I am very likely playing a space race but have not decided yet partly because I have not started playing yet. But even in EC, it is arguable that it may be worth keeping the rivals around for easy lucrative trade routes till the time is right for knocking them out.

My personal plan is to make alliances with all rivals on the pentagon just as I did in GOTM 135. Any rival not interested in that would likely be eliminated as it is too cumbersome to put up with a non ally in such close proximity. Of course, once I start playing the game will take a life of its own and many plans have to be scrapped.

 

[Major Advantage]

So yes in fact I am happy with Major Advantage's use of "interesting". I think in his hands it may have gone a bit quicker than it did in mine ...

Oh no, I wouldn't totally never want to say it like that! (But thanks for the flowers )
As already mentioned, early republic requires a great amount of carefulness and the best you can achive is usually ending up as Captain Hindsight and being aware of what you have done wrong.
I think it would be important to build a shipchain (or rather two, one north, one south) for efficient trade, but it seems rather impossible to do so before Magnetism takes care of "boat unhappiness".