GOTM 14 - Final Spoiler!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by ainwood, Jan 16, 2007.

  1. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

    Joined:
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    GOTM 14 Final Spoiler



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  2. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,176
    Location:
    London, UK
    Ooooh! Me first! Me first!

    (And my first ever genuine , not backdoor, diplomatic win

    I decided from the start to try and go for a diplomatic victory, which meant fast science while keeping relations with some other civs good. Overall Summary: Great early game, crap late game.

    The Start

    Spoiler :

    I settled in place after moving the warrior SE. Tech path: Fishing->Mining->BW->beeline for Oracle. Initial build: Worker (till fishing came in) then workboat-workboat-finish-worker, then my memory goes hazy. I founded the 2nd city West of the gems, so I could nab the marble and build the Oracle double-speed. Got metal casting from the Oracle (1320BC), built the Colossus (525BC), then beelined for literature and built the Great Library (175AD). All in Paris, which meant that, by adding a couple of scientists to Paris, I had a nice GP farm set up. Meanwhile I rapidly expanded in the only direction it was possible to expand in with galleys: Clockwise around the sequence of islands, using slavery extensively to expand quickly. I fairly deliberately put Tours at the North end of the ivory island, positioned so the culture would link to Paris giving me a strategic shortcut route South. However, worried about science, I made that the limit of my expansion until -- too late, Huayna took the other end of the island and the ivory. But diplomatically, things were going well, I've got Huayna, Gandhi and Qin all pleased with me.

    Here's my cute little civ in around 1100AD



    Despite being diplomatic, I wanted to take out a couple of nearby civs to give myself expansion room. India was the most obvious target, because of proximity to the capital and having two very nice well cottaged cities, so I built some forces and declared war in 1000AD. India was pretty small too - just two cities thanks to being hemmed in. Should be a lovely easy catch and very helpful to the glorious French empire - sorry, ummm - republic?

    Soooooooooooo…….


    The First Indian Non-War

    Spoiler :

    The plan was to launch from near my gem city, Orleans. So I positioned the two galleys in the sea at the edge of India's borders, declared war and then clicked to move my first galley to attack. To my horror, instead of the galley moving 2 tiles West to India's coast, I briefly saw the computer show up a massively long 20-odd-turn proposed route going South via Incan territory to Indian lands, and then the galley promptly moved into Orleans, on the first leg of the proposed route. Cursing the misclick that had obviously done this, I move my other galley back into Orleans too - I don't want isolated loaded galleys out there vulnerable to attack. Two turns later I have my galleys back on the border and ready to the same thing.

    So I clicked to move my first galley to attack. To my horror, instead of the galley moving 2 tiles West to India's coast, I briefly saw the computer show up a massively long 20-odd-turn proposed route going South via Incan territory to Indian lands, and the galley moved into Orleans, the first leg of the route.

    OK, this now getting beyond a joke. What's going on?

    I look at the map a bit more carefully, this time mentally taking in the band of ocean tiles inside Indian territory that my galleys need to cross. Duhhhhh! Of course! When I was at peace, my galleys could cross that ocean thanks to open borders, but now I'm at war, they can't move into those tiles.

    I scan the map looking for another route to India. There's none. The computer's proposed route involved crossing a couple of unexplored tiles which it's obvious to me are going to be ocean.

    I start to realize the horrible truth: I've just declared war on a civ that I have absolutely no means of attacking!

    This means Asoka stands a pretty good chance of surviving to astronomy and to the hopeful diplo vote. And somehow I don't think he's going to be voting for me now…

    Still, look on the bright side. Asoka has no means of attacking me either!

    (The war lasted for some centuries until India had caravels and one entered my territory. Fearful for my fish resources, I bribed him 30 gold for peace. Needless to say, during the entire rest of the game, Asoka never once became pleased with me again).


    The First Incan War. Oh. And the Second One.

    Spoiler :

    Frustrated by my failure to take on India, I did the only other thing I could do with my restless forces: I moved them down to attack Huayna, declaring war in 1090AD. I knew I was losing another friend (literally - Huayna was friendly to me), but I was feeling very hemmed in on my archipelago of tiny islands and I badly wanted more land. I took his city by the ivory and his capital, before allowing peace to break out. Later on in 1590AD, I went to war again with him, to nab the rest of his empire. (And by the way, musketeers are useful. They're great for building during the war and knowing they can get to the front quickly. Also most excellent for rapidly returning to the last-but-one city city you captured that you left almost no defenders in coz you didn't anticipate an enemy counter-attack. But can we not say any more about that. Pleasy?)


    The Science

    Spoiler :

    Scientifically, I felt things went pretty well, in the sense that I was well ahead of the AIs. In absolute terms it was slow-ish, though I’m not sure how much that was to do with having a map that didn’t allow much cottage building. Examples: Civil Service: 560AD, Philosophy: 840AD, Education 1150AD, liberalism 1290AD. I had a scientist lightbulb philosophy and immediately switched to buddhism/pacifism. I had only one buddhist city, Paris, but since that was my great-people-farm that was all I needed. I never ever did anything at all with Christianity, which I'd founded earlier from a great prophet.

    For most of the mid game, my sustainable science rate would've been between 30 and 40%, but for almost the entire period I kept it at 100% thanks to gold from two great merchants, from capturing Incan cities, and, most of all, from ruthlessly selling my techs to AIs at knockdown prices. Literally. He's got 150 gold to offer me for liberalism? He's got it…

    I actually was first to liberalism by a mile, and - even better - used it to pick up astronomy as the free tech. (As an aside: That meant I fairly early on discovered all those lovely big virgin islands in the ocean SE of France, and I would've had a total monopoly on settling them too. But ooooooooh! The temptation! The poisoned chalice! I tried experimentally settling the nearest one, with the stone-iron, but the immediate cost to the treasury was so big that I just left all the others for a looooooooooong time.

    But then it all started to go wrong.


    The Science Ends. Suddenly. Craply.


    Spoiler :

    The first harbinger of doom was my failing to get the great merchant from economics (1490AD) (perhaps I was a bit too liberal with half-giving away all my techs…). I must’ve only lost it by a turn or two, :mad: I was sure I checked the tech-trading screen two turns beforehand and satisfied myself that noone else had economics yet.

    After that failure I turned to the mass-media beeline, picking up scientific method in 1540AD. Trouble is--that meant I lost the two scientists from the great library. At this point I was looking with increasing concern anyway at the gpt cost of running pacifism with a large army, and thought this'd be a good time to convert to free religion. Of course that meant my supply of great people, on whom I'd been depending for tech advantages, pretty much dried up. Almost completely. Overnight. After that I got one scientist when I was just on the point of discovering mass media anyway. Er, yeah, ummm, thanks!

    It got worse. I badly miscalculated on physics. Straight after scientific method I used my then last remaining scientists to lightbulb to within 3 turns of physics. Now, as far as I could tell noone else even had scientific method. However I needed more gold to bridge that 3 turns-at-100%-science gap. I reasoned that with 3 turns to go, I could safely start selling scientific method around - surely noone could get from scientific method to physics inside 3 turns???? But to my astonishment, someone (dunno who) evidently could and did, coz when I got to physics, there was no free great scientist to greet me :cry:

    After that, I decided that with a tumbling science rate, I’d be better off sidetracking to nab emancipation/democracy and state property, just to get my science up (might have been better to do that before scientific method, huh…). With all that I found myself only finally getting to mass media around 1804AD. And with no engineer on hand to speed united-nations building . Worse, my earlier backup plan, building the kremlin so I could buy the UN more quickly, had floundered: Qin beat me to the Kremlin by 1 turn (That was entirely my own fault: Normally I'd have poprushed it a couple of turns earlier, but I got careless and tired and forgot to check when I could do that. Mental note. Do not play GOTMs at 3 am.). Finally part-bought UN in 1828AD. You see, the price the glorious and humane French republic is willing to pay to bring about world peace.


    The Diplomatic Bargaining Begins

    Spoiler :

    On UN completion I had 29% of the word's population, thanks to annihilating Huayna. I was also settling those virgin lands SE of France as fast as I could. Except they weren't exactly virgin lands any more. I couldn't even really even describe them as 'faithful' lands any more, they were more like - well, you know the line of that Lily Allen song that goes 'When I work my way through your mates'… well that's what those lands. My rightful lands were now doing to me. I was competing with everyone for them. Quite surprised I got as much of them as I did in the end. I did have some fun settling not one but two cities right under the nose of one of Saladin's settlers, who I guess was taking a couple of turns exploring for the right spot. You just keep on exploring, nice little settler…

    Anyway I thought I could get the votes of Frederick (friendly) and Qin (pleased), and they did indeed both vote for me as secretary general. Noone else was likely to vote for me, and my opponent was Saladin (18% population), and luckily not very popular. By a most excellent stroke of good luck Judaism had spread at some point to one of my outlying cities, so in a burst of piety and of solidarity towards Qin and Frederick (both Jewish) I converted. Out of principle, you understand. I don't think I've ever before deliberately used paganism so late in the game, but with my large army it was the cheapest civic that satisfied the requirement of Not Being Free Religion.

    It wasn't enough. When the first diplo vote came, Frederick voted for me but Qin didn't. I had nowhere near enough votes. Which meant I had to put plans B and C into action…


    The 2nd Indian Non-War

    Spoiler :

    Plan B was to take out Gandhi (long and slow, but should give me the votes, and if it didn’t Rome was lying just beyond…). Plan C was to research to fascism so I could convert to police state, Qin's favourite civic (short and easy but no guarantee of working, and I’m hoping it won’t lose me Frederick's vote). Plan B meant I had to research steel and combustion quickly, since Gandhi now had a vast navy of transports and destroyers. So I did that first. Meanwhile the second diplo vote gave the same result as the first one.

    By 1852 I had combustion, I had my troops amassed, I had my boats scurrying to upgrade to transports/destroyers. There was just one minor snag: I'd forgotten that I need to actually put a well on my one oil source first! And I only had one worker even on the same landmass. Well, I'm sure Gandhi will be just as pleasant to conquer in 8 turns time…

    But it was all unnecessary. For some reason in the 3rd diplo vote, Qin swapped sides and voted for me. It was still knife edge, but it put me 3 votes past the winning margin. Diplo win in 1856AD. My rapid founding of cities everywhere helped too, since I was now on 34% population.


    Just Don't Download My Final Savegame, Eh…

    Spoiler :

    Of course lots of people download saves to see what a player’s strategy was. I can't help thinking how little information anyone who downloads my save without having read the spoiler will wonder what on Earth I was doing. To the NorthWest, the hypothetical downloader will see my massive invasion force amassing ready to attack Gandhi, but with as yet insufficient ships correctly positioned to take them there (because my galleons had mostly been busy ferrying settlers to the Lily Allen Islands). But he won't be able to tell that, because my galleons have all retreated into my territory, on their way to the Indian border and to await the transport upgrade. Except of course I have no oil yet. On the other hand, to the SE are various new cities that have no defence at all, because I was rushing to get settlers there so fast that there was no time to build military to accompany them (but you might not realize how new those cities are, as most of them already have a fair bit of infrastructure: Granaries, lighthouses, fishing boats, all of them bought very rapidly to make them grow super-quickly). And the person will probably assume I'm researching assembly line so I can build infantry (I'm not, I'm researching it because it's en route to fascism. Plan C). Then there's the question of why I'm running paganism, not theocracy, when I've evidently been building such a big army…

    Mind you, with a win as late as 1856 AD, who's going to be interested anyway…


    Oh by the way, here's what my final empire looks like. Yes, I am glad that Saladin didn't declare on me... (Look at the shape of and length of my border with him!)

     
  3. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,715
    Continue from my previous post.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=4990307&postcount=10

    I found a picture of my civ 475AD from my first save.
    Spoiler :




    I sad I was preparing to attack Capac, in reality I did, I think I starting to build my first or second cat.

    I do not remember what I did after, but form replay 840AD I addopt Burocracy and org religion and finally converted to Cristianity.
    860 AD Quin declare on Federic. Bouth of them webe bagging me every 2 turns to declare war on each other, which I rejected. Federic stronger and I want to keep him on a good side, Mao is in between me and Frederic, declare on him = loose all trades. Very annoing.
    I was allready 980AD when I finally declare on Capac and 1000 AD I took Ivory city on island.

    After that I run into trouble. I was really sick and did not think clearly.

    So, I drop my first stack of 4 cats+ axe+spear near his capital.
    Capital had 4 archers+sword.
    Next turn Capac add 4 Crossbow! darn, I had nothing to protect stack from Crossbow, and I still stupedly move it next to capital.

    Long story short, but when my next stack of 6 units arrived ony 1 semialive cat were left of first stack.

    Second stack had 2 elephants to defent it, but it did not help that mach, as He finally got Longbows and start to attack elephants with them and Winning! Darn.

    Actially total stack in capital did depress me,
    4 LB + 4 CB + sword+ axe. Darn, Darn. Darn.

    At that moment I got maces and whiping everything I could.
    My thurd 1 tie island city had like -11-12 we can not forget your cruel oppression and I used cultural slider to keep my empire in minimum happiness state, but finally I collect double amount of units, mostly cats and took capital 1180AD.

    There I had an other laps in concentration, seens I was very sick.
    I traded Optics and forgot to build caravel. When I finally build it, items lag caused to move it in other direction. I result I lost going around a globe bonus by 1 turn 1 tie to Capac in 1210AD!

    Ohh hell... Playing when sick!

    The rest of capac empire was easy. It main island was complitly occupied
    1350 AD

    1370AD I made peace for a time.
    He had build a 3 cities down south and one on island connected by his old cultural bridge over the Ocean.

    I actially like old Vanilla water rules better then new Warlord one's.
    I hate how one can cruise around enamy cultural wartest in galeys in Warlors. I think old Vanilla one's were more strategically fun, even if they allow one directional bridges.
    1390AD Quin declare on Frederic again!
    1400AD I build Taj Maxal and start golden age.
    1450 I declare on Saladin, as he build one city on Capac Island and took Island near Capac.
    Same year I build Versales in capac capital (I actially never build Forbitten, should had) and Discover Liberalism.
    From my memory I took Representation out of it.

    1480 Frederic come again asking to declare on Quin.
    I look on year, speed of conquest and decided it go too slow and I lost ship movemetn bonus. So, change gear to UN win is in order.
    So, I agreed. I decided to make Frederic my friends, as he was smaller and less developed then Asoka.
    Asoka would be my competitor in UN ellection and I need to get Frederic voites in order to win.


    1545AD I mostly clean up Saladin infestation, exept his mainland.
    So, declared on Capac again in order to take his south island.
    1550 mad epeace with Saladin.
    1600AD clean up Capac infestation south and made peace with him.
    1610 AD I made a big revolution, adopting Emancipation, Free speach and Pacifism.

    As you see, I am gearing up cottagess wehn using max GP generation from Pacifism.

    Gear army and took Iron city and one more near by city he build and finally made peace with Quin 1625AD.

    Now I had good rounded empire, but still wanting to take Salading Mainland.

    In a mean time astronomy were discovered and I manage to get 3 settlers out on newly accessable islands.
    1720 AD declare on Saladin again and took his mainland 1826 AD.

    I start moving stack to take some island he settle, but when stack arrived it found that he got riffles. My old stack of cats+maces would not work.
    1830 I mad epeace with him.

    1822AD I build UN. Again, my luck of attention cost me speedy victory.
    (Note, I still did not know chemistry at that point!)
    gen sec ellection come and Everything as planed.
    India is my competitor and Frederic voited to me.

    The only - I had with him at this moment where from religion and a lot of +, as I was giving him everything he want.

    I look on sum and I thin I still had not enoght, so I cruise to next voite and by the way moving army to Capac last size 7 city.

    And you know what? Next ellection come and Frederic voites for Asoka for the win! Darn.
    1840 I fired all my specialists, put all my cities to max grow and revolted to
    US + Free religion.
    1842 declare on Capac and 1846 he stop to exist.

    Now I am sure I will win next ellection. it come and...
    and... and... My competitor is Frederic!

    I did not watch and he managed to get 1 pop more then India! and offcause Idia voites for him!

    Darn, darn, darn..
    What can I do?

    And here I remember, that on one stage I made subsidised trade with him, giving him all happiness/health resources. He wa ssmaller, but he mad a better use of astronomy to spread him around.

    So, I can cancell all deals with him and mad ethem insted with India. In addition the moment I got Biology I give it to him.

    Next ellection Fred still my competitor, ok.

    I am waiting for next one and.. and.. India now my competitor, but it is Gen Sec ellection. darn darn darn...
    Frederic got Biology!
    a few tense turn and finally last ellection.
    India still my competitor, have 1 voite over Frederic, givng me finally my diplo win 1872AD

    Uffff
     
  4. Thorrez

    Thorrez Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2006
    Messages:
    220
    1987 Diplo for all of 13090 points :)

    For some reason my plan was to wait for Astronomy before I went to war. Really stupid as China had two nice cities i "my" water.

    Anyway, circumnavigated in 1060, Liberalism in 1200 grabbing Astronomy and builds up an invationforce grabbing the two close Chinese cities ~1450. Heads towards the China mainland.

    Stupid mistake 2: A this point I started to slow down my research and stopped trading, thinking about conquest/domination victory I guess.

    Easily grabs Beijing but I can't get enough % on attacking the well defended city SW (Longbows defending) so I wait for reinforcment (grenadiens at this point). Before I know it chinese muskets striks back and almost drives me into the sea, forcing me to go to peace.

    Stupid mistake 3: I did not realize that Chichen Itza was in the east chinese city. That was why I did not get the % as was expecting on the second city.

    New troops arrive and I take the east city first and finally wrap up heartland china (including the island SE) in 1822. I realize know the dom/con is not feasable so I turn research up to go for diplo. Also takes out India by 1880 mostly becase he is close and underdefended. Last war was Saladin (declared in 1912 on an Inca request, all importent cities mine by 1975)

    The diplomatics:
    I build UN in 1961
    Incas friendly and germans pleased. Problem is they are 2nd and 3rd and don't like each other. Just swap the names and you got the same story as Mutineer :). I try to get Fredrik to vote for me, but the next election he is number 2 and now the Inca won't vote for me because I traded with Fredrik. I think this happen 3 time (yes I know, not very skillful of me :)) before I finally get Inca 2nd and Fredrik friendly (by coping his civics) in 1987.

    Next time I plan how to win better :), fun game anyway!
     
  5. The Mad Swede

    The Mad Swede Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Sandviken, Sweden
    My first GOTM since GOTM19 for CivIII, I think. Never having played Emperor before in CivIV (this was only my fifth game or so, highest i had played was Prince) I felt that a heroic defeat was the best I could hope for. Plus learning something along the way.

    Anyway, founded in place. Build order: Warrior-workboat-workboat-warrior-settler-worker. Haven't got the hang of micromanaging my build que yet, will have to work on that next time.

    Founded Orleans 2040BC near the marble. Should have built it closer to the marble so I didnt have to build a stupid Obelisk to get it.

    Used marble for the Parthenon. Managed to get Judaism but never got the shrine due not thinking about getting priests. Never used the Parthenon bonus properly either. I really need to focus on the right think instead of building to many useless buildings all the time.

    I also built Lyons on the 1-tile island to use the fish. This meant I saw the Chinese who had settled by the iron. I quickly gathered an army and took that city. I also noted a Chinese galley with a settler going south and followed that and took the new town as soon as it got to size 2. The only other war I started in the game was against Saladin to take the Ivory city. I took 2 icebound Chinese cities to the northeast later on as well and another one to the southeast.

    I fell hopelessly behind in tech and decided to go for Cultural victory. For some reason. I botched that job since I lacked a proper plan for how to do it and that started to look hopeless too. But I never stopped trying. For some reason.

    I didn't manage to get many more cities settled since all the others got there first, in the end I just waited the game out for the inevitable loss. Saladin made a mess of my lands when he declared and rolled in with destroyers which I did not have. The whole country starved until I payed my way out of it. Never saw any ground troops though, thankfully.

    Finally lost the game in 2021AD to an Incan spaceship.

    It was fun anyway and I learned a lot of things:
    *Need to focus on city specialisations a lot harder
    *Don't build everything everywhere, thats just stupid
    *Need to conquer more early on
    *Need more careful tech planning and tech trading
    *Need to explore a lot more early on

    I'll do better next time :crazyeye:
     
  6. wathombe

    wathombe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    The Corridors of Power
    My post from the First Spoiler thread here.

    As I mentioned there, this was my first GotM and my first game above Noble difficulty. I decided a Cultural win would be my best shot. By 500 AD, I had 5 cities total (three cramped on my original island, one to the S, and one to the SE). Qin had settled due E of me, Saladin SW, and Capac had pretty much filled his island. I had founded Confucianism and Xn.

    At this point, I was spreading my two religions and builiding culture buildings while looking for land for four more cities. I sailed galleys all over the place and managed to find three distant off-coast rocks for more cities. (I finally got astronomy and had a galleon on the way to a site for a ninth and final city when the game ended later.)

    By the time the mid-nineteenth century rolled around, I was doing pretty well, although I didn't think I would actually win. No one had declared war on me, I had traded for a fair amount of fill-in techs, and I had turned off science for culture after I founded Nationalism in 1808. My production city was cranking out Musketeers for defense.

    My three culture cities were up to 35K/25K/25K by 2012. They were in the lead, but not close enough. Qin had built the UN, and he and Capac were fighting over Sec Gen. Most other civs were building SS. Only one war had broken out, between Frederick and Qin, but it was short. This is when Caesar decides to attack me. He quickly took one of my culture cities and my commerce city. I was desperately looking for help from someone else, but couldn't get it. Mercifully, Capac finished his SS in 2024, so I survived having lost only two cities.

    For my first game above Noble, I feel pretty good for surviving until the end and getting a decent start on three Legendary cities. My score was a lousy 1850 (although I did stay just above Caesar until the very end!). I'm playing some test games now to bone up on specialized city strategies, research orders, and such. I tried a Prince game yesterday and actually found it harder than this Emperor game, so I'm playing on Noble now.

    Any pointers would be appreciated, and I look forward to reading the other accounts!

    w.
     
  7. seven21

    seven21 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    19
    This was a marathon for a normal speed game with a fitting climax. Having eliminated Asoka early on and taken a couple of cities from Hyana the plan was to trade up to modern warfare and then take out the other key competitors for a domination win.
    As usual it didn't quite go like that and tech progress slowed to a virtual standstill so Plan B was called for which was very much like Plan A except with the turns running out it was going to go all the way.
    Firstly I had to stop the tech leader Frederick building a space ship which took a long while but was eventually achieved. Then I had to cut back Saladin's 500 point lead which again was achieved. With 10 turns left there was only four points separating Saladin , Hyana and Napoleon.
    I took another of Saladin's cities to leave it between Napoleon and Hyana who was only one SS item to go and pulling ahead on points. I lined up a desparate invasion of one of Hyana's cities on the last turn to make up the 13 point gap. This was successful but on Hyana's final turn he took the Saladin city I had just invaded and crept ahead of me .
    Of course I replayed those last four turns and won it but the points score was very close. It goes down as a time loss but a great game and certainly the closest Civ game I have ever played.
    Thanks for the map guys.
     
  8. jesusin

    jesusin Ant GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,135
    Location:
    Madrid
    Everything is lost.
    jesusin, contender, domination 1720AD, 58315 points, 3159 basic, 35 hours.

    I was hoping for an opportunity to win a military award. I felt so good about my start. It was so clever a move to work the gold mine the first 2 turns in order to accelerate fishing 1 turn. It was so clever to work the gold again for 2 turns to save 1 turn of the boat. It was so clever to delay 1 turn the working of the mined gold, in order to exchange 1 hammer and 7 gold for 2 food…

    Around 1AD everything was going ok and I was on my way for an attack on Incans. 3 cities, 80bpt, ivory soon to be connected, producing cats, having GLIG and GLIB… when I moved my Galley, loaded with my Worker and an Axe, next to a Barb Galley. I was so upset that when you order a unit to move two tiles it doesn’t stop at the first tile if it is seeing and enemy from there, that I didn’t even think about unloading the units in the desert island. Of course I lost the fight and 145 early hammers. Ivory didn’t get connected and the opportunity to attack Hua when he has only archers was lost.


    Now I feel better, because I made another major mistake, so avoiding one mistake wouldn’t have given a good result anyway. Here is what I have learned:
    · A land unit can not enter another AI borders, unless there’s an open borders agreement or the civs are at war.
    · A Galley cannot enter a non-coastal tile, unless the tile is inside a civs’s border and there’s an open borders agreement.
    · A Galley cannot enter a non-coastal tile, even if the tile is inside a civ’s border, when the civs are at war.

    Since I didn’t know this third piece of knowledge, when I recovered from my first mistake I sent 2 Galleys loaded with Elephants and Cats all around the North pole till they reached Qin borders. Then I declared war and then I realized my Galleys couldn’t approach the Chinese shores. The army was abandoned in a desert island covered with ice, while the Galleys went back to my borders in order to wait for Astronomy, be upgraded to Galleons and then come back to rescue the army. What a waste.


    These two mistakes delayed me so badly that AIs had extended a lot when I fought them. All in all, a sluggish game from there on. I changed gears and settled the 2-sea-resource islands and started whipping like crazy. Some facts:

    GLIB 275BC.
    Construction 175BC. I though Feudalism was near, I am too much used to Deity techpace now. They didn’t get Feudalism till 1130AD, the isolationism price was paid.
    Ivory connected 300AD. Decided not to attack my friends the Incans, my friends, and wait for Galleons instead.
    Dow Qin, 4units are abandoned in the ice.
    Astronomy lightbulbed with 2 GS in 740AD.
    Incans dow me! 1030AD, now the way forward is clear.
    First to Liberalism in 1230, took Nationalism just because it was the most expensive,
    it never served any purpose, should have been Gunpowder on my way to cannons. Qin is playing OCC.
    1340AD I stop farming GP and start using Vasaillage and Free Religion. Pacifism was expensive indeed!
    1410AD, Caesar is OCC. What a pitiful start he had. Incans live in the South pole only.
    1460AD Asoka has Astronomy. I panicked, started flooding settlers into far away islands. 18% land. Soon after I am 3 turns away of Steel, but have to go 0% research. I am broke. Each new city means –22gpt. Banks and Delegations are whipped everywhere.
    1600AD, Saladin, Romans and Incans are gone for good. Dow Asoka, he lasts 12 turns to my new cannons.
    The endgame was badly played. The last turn I founded 18 cities. 2 misplaced settlers weren’t unable to settle that turn. But since I don’t know how to count, I had 35 tiles too many! I could have won much sooner. No need to dow Fred. 73% land at the end. Conquest wasn’t so far away.
    2 Golden ages. 8 GPs.

    I have also learnt that somehow Grenadiers tend to die against Longbows, while Musketeers don't.:confused:
     
  9. lroumen

    lroumen Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    Netherlands
    What can I say? I dislike seas and I'm not good enough for emperor level yet.... so I went for the easy way out. I explored my island and found out that it was decent enough to try a cultural victory. I wanted to try diplomatic at first, but my teching couldn't keep up and as soon as I got democracy I switched to culture. It took me some tweaking of the cities and what religions to spread when and where, when to add artists, and finally where to build the hermitage. A very peaceful game with most of the time just the pressing of the enter button. With everyone happy with me I would have won diplomatic hands down, but being unable to tech to the UN, culture was the next best thing.
    I knew that culture would be very late game with the three cities on my island but that was no problem because I expected that space ships from the AIs would be near impossible to manage as well. The only hazard would be the UN built by others or domination by one of the others. Luckily the AI rarely ever builds the UN or wins with a domination.

    Entry class: Contender
    Game statuts: Cultural Victory for France
    Game date: 1990 AD
    Base score: 1231
    Final score: 3359

    Poor, but fun :)
     
  10. The Mad Swede

    The Mad Swede Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Sandviken, Sweden
    Wow! All of this is remarkably similar to my own game. Im not sure what my score was, but it was somewhere around there. Looking forward to more fights with you in the future ;)
     
  11. Gyathaar

    Gyathaar Warlock Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    3,753
    Location:
    Trondheim, Norway
    This changed between vanilla civ4 and warlords btw.. in warlords they can enter such tiles when at war
     
  12. jesusin

    jesusin Ant GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,135
    Location:
    Madrid
    Good to know, thank you, Gyathaar.

    Was this really Emperor? I was very sad to see that AIs kept a dozen Caravels and a dozen Galleys inside each of their cities. All of them got sunk as my land troops took the cities. Had all those ships being patrolling the seas, I would have never been able to get to their shores. Even disbanding them would have been better, not to talk about not building them in the first place…
     
  13. Mutineer

    Mutineer Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2006
    Messages:
    3,715
    I noticed, bad change, if you ask me.
     
  14. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,176
    Location:
    London, UK
    I agree. IMO not being able to enter sea tiles at war adds an interesting additional strategic dimension to the game.
     
  15. totororo

    totororo Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Messages:
    37
    At one point, i just DOW on Ghandi with a good stack, and noticed that once you've DOWed on someone, you simply can't beneficiate anymore from culture bridges.

    Well. I was so mad that i just gave up the game (well, anyway, i wasn't to do a tremendous score).

    EDIT: well, that was an issue that you've already tackled !
     
  16. Markus5

    Markus5 Code Monkey

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Messages:
    683
    Location:
    Lino Lakes, MN, USA
    My big blunder came when I used a couple of great engineers to build the Statue of Liberty. Duh. It only affects cities on the continent. If I'd done things differently, I might have won the Space Race. As it was, I missed by about 15 turns.
     
  17. Vynd

    Vynd Prince

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2001
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Detroit
    My first post is here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=202193&page=2

    My first spoiler left off with the question: would I be able to turn things around after my poor start? Well to save you the suspense, not really.

    Mind you, I was able to improve on my situation somewhat. For awhile I maintained a delusion that I could win a domination or diplomatic victory. To that end, I attacked China with Axes and captured his Iron Island city, razed an iceball city to the NE of that, then made peace when I realized that the rest of China was way further off than I'd expected.

    I'd coveted the Arabian Ivory city as soon as I saw it. I attacked and captured that after my war with China, although in hindsight the Ivory didn't matter much since I'd just about developed Macemen. That was the only Arabian city I could reach so I made peace. I considered attacking India with my shiny new Macemen but realized in tie that I wouldn't be able to get across the ocean. That meant I'd have to turn on Huyana, my best friend and scoreboard leader. Sorry man. I attacked and captured Cuzco pretty easily but lost most of my forces to a counterattack outside Tiwanku, forcing me to make peace.

    At this point outright domination seemed unlikely so I tried to set myself up for a diplomatic win with help from Asoka and Frederick. This involved making Rome an enemy and worsening my already bad relations with China. Saladin was the population leader and everyone hated him so my intention was to leave him alone and let him continue to grow. Huyana's empire I would have to continue to assimilate.

    By beelining towards it from a long ways away I was able to get to Chemistry first, and upgrade my Macemen to Grenadiers. With some misgivings I decided to trade Chemistry to some of my friends to get the many techs I'd skipped over. I was especially hopeful that in a second round of trading I'd be able to swap Chemistry and Printing Press with (I think) Asoka to get Astronomy, which almost everyone but me had. Alas, he rejected my offers. And by releasing Chemistry into the world I ensured that the Incas acquired it pretty soon thereafter, greatly slowing down my second war with them. I was eventually able to drive them off their original continent, but my empire suffered greatly when their superior navy pillaged all my seafood.

    Towards the end of my Incan war the Chinese declared on me. By now I had Galleons, Frigates, and Cannons, and the war went well. I captured and kept the rebuilt iceball city I'd razed thousands of years ago, and razed a second Chinese city. When I saw his other cities were stocked with Infantry, I made peace and sailed my Grenadiers back to the Incan stronghold at the south pole. He was the only civ left that was still relying on Riflemen, and I wanted to grab what I could while my Grens still had some life in them. That turned out to be one city. After that he upgraded to Infantry too. And worse yet, his Destroyers sent my wooden navy into hiding and once again pillaged all my seafood.

    It was around this time that Saladin declared war on me, and I realized that there was absolutely no hope of me achieving victory. I strongly considered retiring but decided I would play on and maybe score coveted Ambulance award. So I watched as Saladin easily captured my southernmost Inca-land city. He could have taken another without much struggle, he had Infantry and Tanks to my Grenadiers for crying out loud, but due to the quirky AI he refrained.

    In fact I was able to retain all of my remaining cities for the rest of the game, despite a war declaration from the Romans and another war against the Arabs. I relied heavily on Machine Guns for city defense. Beyond that, my only accomplishments of note were to be the first to develop a few techs the AI likes to neglect, like Medicine and Enviornmentalism, which I turned around and traded to boost my score. If I'd held on to them I might have slowed the AI spaceships enough to have the game hit 2050 and lose via time. But Frederick completed his spaceship in 2043 (and so far as I can tell, Saladin as well) and won the game.

    My final score: 2084/4485.
     
  18. bio_hazard

    bio_hazard Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    esoteri, ca
    :lol: I did that on a prince-level warm-up to this GOTM. My initial capital was on an island by itself, and I built the statue of liberty there.
     
  19. bio_hazard

    bio_hazard Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2005
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    esoteri, ca
    Bio_hazard. Final Spoiler. Adventurer Start. Spaceship loss to Asoka, 1995AD. Base Score: 3216 Final Score: 4372.4 (with the adventurer pentalty I think)

    At 0 AD, the Incans had recently declared on me and taken Lyons, my SW most city along the island chain stretching towards the Incans. I ramped up military, and retook the city with 2 axemen in 150AD. I was nervous about the power of the AI on Emperor, and feared a major invasion from HC. It never came.

    400AD- I finally meet Asoka, although I’ve seen his pink border for some time now.

    520AD Tours founded on iron island to east of Paris.

    I think I negotiated peace with HC, but declared again around 1030AD and took his city near the Elephants. I probably should have raised this city and founded two on the island, but at the time was thinking military only.

    1110AD- I capture Cuzco, the northern-most city on the skinny western incan island. Swords and Cats are ruling.

    At this point the war with HC drags on. I try an unsuccessful attack on the next city to the south in 1350. HC has knights now. In the mean time, the incans are pillaging all of my seafood. After another unsuccessful attack in 1480, I go for peace, but I don’t think I really get anything good from the incans in the deal.

    Somewhere in there I have a phony war with the Romans at the request of the Chinese- I want to keep them friendly if possible.

    I now tech towards chemistry, gunpowder, and techs that the other AI’s don’t seem to favor. I whip culture buildings in Cuzco (including Hermitage) to keep it from flipping, and in the 1700’s begin to crank Grenadiers for another try at the incans.

    I declare on the Incans again in the early 1800’s. They have Cavs, but not many of them, and a couple of rifles in my stacks of grenadiers seem to take care of them ok. 1822AD, I take Tiwanaku, followed by Ollantayatambo (1832), Machu Pichu (1842), and after a couple of attempts, Corihuayrachina (1868). The incans now have Artillery, but their production must be crap because I only see the one. I declare peace again.

    At this point I’m behind a bit in techs, and figure that my best bet is to go for diplo. Unfortunately I’m 4th or 5th in score. I want to tech towards a couple of key military techs for infantry, artillery, tanks, etc, and then head to UN. Unfortunately Asoka beat me to it. He and Frederick (I think) are up for Sec Gen the first time. Can’t remember who wins, but I decide now is the time to increase my pop and hopefully get in the next election. I load up infantry and artillery and whale on HC one more time. I take his other big island (Victos 1955; Huamanga 1960). I now am in the elections! I’m against Asoka, and Frederick, the Chinese, and I think Saladin all vote for me, and I become Secreatary General. I try right away for a diplo victory, but only Fred votes with me. The Chinese abstain, so I bribe them to join me against the incans, and after a few turns the +2 from shared military struggle tips them to voting for me. No one else seems to like me enough to try to win them over, so the only thing for it is to keep the germans and Chinese happy, and to try to increase my pop as much as possible.

    I keep on against the Incans, and take a southern island Andahualas in 1964. I hadn’t really looked at the map, but was stunned to see a black cultural border down here. There was still a barb city by all the fur!! They have rifleman, but I have tanks, infantry, marines, and artillery, so I quickly take Saxon (1980), as well as more Incan cities (Vilcamba, to the West on island west of Cuzco, 1976; Nasca, near silver and Saxon on the southern edge, 1986).

    At this point I am only 20 votes shy of a victory!!! I load up 2 transports and head to the incans main remainig island west, on the other side of Saladin. 5 turns away. :( I land next to their current capital, but the next turn Asoka launches. Argh!! Just a few more turns and I probably would have had the pop necessary.

    At the end I spent a lot of money cash-rushing improvements to get my pop up ( I was running 30% science, 30% culture). I didn’t research or trade for either communism or fascism. Perhaps with some spies and less war weariness, I could have slowed down the spaceship race enough to give me time to win with diplo. On the whole I was pretty happy with my early game and late game, but bogged down too much mid-game in my war with the incans. I’ve never been this close to winning on Emperor before, so pretty happy with how it turned out.
     
  20. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2005
    Messages:
    6,176
    Location:
    London, UK
    Interesting that just about all the AI spaceship launches people are reporting are 21st century (or close to 21st century), which seems extraordinarily late for emperor level. I'm guessing the archipelago/high-sea-level map is having its effect here: Science can progress really well at first thanks to all the coastal tiles, but eventually the relative lack of tiles that you can build cottages on kicks in and slows science down for everybody, compared to what would be happening on a map with more land.
     

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