GOTM 15: First Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Game of the Month' started by ainwood, Feb 5, 2007.

  1. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    30,083

    GOTM 15: First Spoiler


    Well, now is the time to tell us about your foray into the world of Civ4: Deity level.

    By the looks of the submissions to-date, there have been quite a few who have given this ultimate level a go. So tell us - how did you get on?

    Reading Requirements:
    1. You must have either completed and submitted your game; or
    2. Reached at least 0 AD; and
    3. Have a view of the majority of the starting continent (know where the rivals on the starting continent are, and have contact with all of them.


    Posting Restrictions:
    1. Please no discussions of anything post 500 AD.
    2. No discussions or screenshots of any other continents or landmasses, save from the starting ones. You may discuss anything that you got in-game messages about (eg, wonders built or religions founded in a far away land).
     
  2. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    London, UK
    Contender. And a tale of total woe for me, but nothing to do with the deity level – this was purely because of stuff I did wrong. Quecha rush that I’m not convinced was appropriate for the map and which knocked both me backwards by miles while only slightly denting Hatty, coupled with some horrendous early mistakes. I actually think I would’ve played this GOTM far better if I’d not bothered reading any of the forums, and just approached it the way I would’ve done before reading about how great quecha rushes are, ie. by using slavery to rush settlers as quickly as possible, overexpanding to grab the land and then cottaging like mad till my economy recovered.

    I’m really not sure if I’m going to complete and submit this game. I’ve submitted defeats before and am quite happy to play through to a guaranteed defeat and submit if I feel I’ve played as well as I can – and let’s face it, being defeated on deity isn’t exactly anything to be ashamed of. But this was a really terrible game that I’m certain doesn’t remotely reflect how well I can (normally) play, and because of that I just don’t feel any enthusiasm at all for continuing it. I guess I could just submit what I have as a retired game, but to me, in the absence of retirement penalties, that just feels dishonest when I know it’s a case of played badly, not a genuine case of run out of time. So I really don’t know what to do. What I’d like to do right now is go back to the start and try playing it the way I would’ve played if I hadn’t read the pre-game discussion and got hooked on the quecha rush thing, to see how that pans out, but of course if I do that before submitting whatever-I-submit, that’ll (rightly) disqualify my game anyway.

    But anyway onto what actually happened up to 500AD…

    The False Continent

    Spoiler :
    I sent quechas exploring everywhere until I’d roughly filled in a square stretching up to Hatty and then an equal distance West. At that point I had not met anyone else, I’d seen enough of what looked like sea at the edges of view to convince me I’d explored roughly the entire continent. So I concluded I was alone with Hatty on a continent, which meant no early tech trading chances so I might as well quecha rush to eliminate her (despite my misgivings about how far away she was) and get a continent to myself.


    The First War

    Spoiler :
    So I converged my forces on Egypt and declared war as soon as I had a chance to worker steal, then moving in and using my only two quechas that were on the scene to pillage her copper mine (actually a copper farm – evidently she hadn’t yet discovered bronze working :) ) while Thebes built about 10 quechas to send North. (The map looked well cool at this point – a quecha every couple of tiles heading North). I then paused to build an axe (I was worried about barb axes) and then a worker (Maybe that was a mistake and I should’ve sent 20 quechas there instead of 10 quechas, though that would’ve really hit my economy).


    Losing Every Worker

    Spoiler :
    Then disaster struck. You know how the game sometimes makes it momentarily look like one unit is selected when it’s actually another unit selected: Well that caught me out and, intending to move my axe, I actually moved the worker that I’d captured from Hatty and who was almost back to my borders. Right next to a barb warrior. Dead worker. A couple of turns later, another barb warrior no. 2 heads for the gems. I’d had a quecha on those gems almost the whole game but had temporarily sent him out to check out the best position for a 2nd city by the gold. Bad timing. No chance to stop them being pillaged but I had units there to destroy the barb warrior, along with my other two workers queuing up to rebuild the mine the instant they could. Except I didn’t see the original barb warrior no. 1 next to where they were queuing. Poof! Gems pillaged and I have no workers at all to mine them back. And I now have a freshly built settler, but with no gems or workers, it’d now be really stupid to use him.


    Capturing Thebes

    Spoiler :
    Meanwhile I finally have enough quechas in Egypt to try and take a city. 1 archer, 10 quechas. Very bad RNG luck when they try and take Thebes: They capture it against 3 archers but there are only 3 badly wounded survivors (I was expecting 4-5 survivors). I have to make peace, but I also make the fatal mistake of keeping rather than razing the city, despite having insufficient units to capture any more. I know it was stupid, I think it was just – I can’t have spended all that effort for nothing, I have to keep the city.

    The very next turn, expanded Egyptian borders tell me that Hatty has just founded another city 3 tiles to the West. With her creative trait that spells disaster for Thebes.


    And Losing Thebes Again

    Spoiler :
    I tried as fast as I could to build lots of quechas in Thebes, confident that Hatty still has only archers since I can see her unmined copper source. So I hope my quechas will be able to overwhelm her eventually. I judge I have enough quechas in Thebes on roughly the turn she remines the copper. Now’s when I have to do it or she’ll get axes. So I go to the diplomacy window to declare war. Hatty’s opening message is ‘Oh look I’ve just built a swordsman. I wonder where I should put it’. That’s the first time I’ve ever known that kind of threat be useful! Drat! She has iron somewhere else. Obviously I don’t declare war – my quechas I wouldn’t stand a chance.
    Not long afterwards her cultural borders expanded, leaving Thebes with just 3 working tiles. The city was costing me 9gpt maintenance. I gave up and gifted the city back to Hatty. Massive quecha rush for nothing.


    War Again

    Spoiler :
    I did declare war again later – in an attempt to slow Hatty down. Had my quechas follow an archer-archer-settler group of hers out to where she was founding a new city and declared and razed the city as soon as she founded it, in the hope of setting her back a little (and coz I didn’t have anything else to do with all those quechas anyway!). I knew she’d counterattack with lots of axes/swords etc. but judged (correctly) that she’d focus on my nearest city to her, which was my well-defended production centre of Machu Picchu in the hills North of Cuzco, and I’d have no problem fending off those counterattacks.

    What I didn’t anticipated was a galley landing near Zapotec, the city I’d captured from barbs near the stone on the southern coast. I don’t know what happened. Other people have reported units not being seen on NVidia graphics cards and I certainly have an NVidia graphics card so whether something in the graphics card caught me out or whether I was just being incredibly unobservant I don’t know. What I saw initially was an empty galley – nothing to worry about. Two turns later two axes that I had no idea were there attacked and razed Zapotec – when I had other axes standing a few tiles away whom I could’ve easily moved in to hold the city.

    I allowed the war to continue until I saw an Egyptian longbowman: My shock-promoted axes who’d mostly been making mincemeat of Hatty’s axes, swords and spears up to then were useless against a longbow so I gave Hatty 80 gold for peace.


    Meeting the Other Civs

    Spoiler :
    Around that time I discovered to my surprise the continent was a lot bigger than I’d thought and was shared with other civs. It was obvious I was totally behind everyone in tech and in danger of being confined to 4-5 cities. Small cities at that, with only two happiness resources. I then did the only emergency plan I could think of and reverted to spamming cities and to hell with my economy – just grab the land and let cottages do the rest over time. That’s what I think I should’ve done at the beginning but I was doing it over 100 turns too late.


    The 500AD Situation

    Spoiler :
    And that’s where I was at 500AD. Have to say I felt pretty gutted at it. When this deity GOTM was first announced, initially I was dreading it. But then I’d tried a couple of test maps which gave me more confidence so that by the time the GOTM15 saves went up I was actually really looking forward to the challenge. (I’d played the test game Erkon posted to around 1600AD and kept up with the AI in tech pretty much the whole game. By 1600AD it was obvious that I was going to lose the spacerace but only marginally, and I was giving the AI a run for its money. On deity level, I was very happy with that. And I assumed I’d manage something similar in the actual GOTM).

    But as it turns out – in 500AD I’m having to run 0% science for another 20 or so turns just to get enough gold to be able to research construction. Like I say, it’s a total disaster. And with militaristic Toku hovering near my borders, annoyed with me, and technologically miles ahead of me, I’d say it’s a near certainty that he will invade me sooner or later, and when he does he’ll wipe me out with ease.
     
  3. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Washington DC
    CONTENDER

    DEFEAT 2020 BC

    I met Hatty. Then as my 2nd settler popped, a barbarian archer appeared. It beat a Quecha, and then an Archer, and then took my city

    Score : Dan Quayle 0

    I will now try at adventurer
     
  4. da_Vinci

    da_Vinci Gypsy Prince

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    4,182
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    Any chance that archer sprang up with a couple of promotions? That hamstrung me a bit in the early game, barbs with promotions chewing my infrastructure (details to follow). Don't recall barbs coming with promotions on lower levels (maybe I just have not noticed).

    dV
     
  5. civ_steve

    civ_steve Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    3,866
    Location:
    formerly Santa Clarita, California
    I attempted to play the straight Deity Challenger save. I made some pictures along the way so I might as well post them!

    I was very tempted by the concept of the Quecha rush. I was planning to settle on the Hill; but first I moved my starting Quecha SE to the Hill giving it some visibility to the East of the Settler. Sheep were revealed. Hmm... After about 5 minutes of thought, I just knew that extra food outweighed an early extra Hammer. Settled in place.

    Wanted to use Fish fast, so started on Fishing and sent the Quecha off exploring. He made it about 15 tiles to the NW when upon moving to a Forest/Hill he chanced upon a Bear and a Lion hiding on the other side of the hill. Did the Bear in, but the Lion finished him off. I had several turns of 'Press Enter' after that with nothing to do.

    Learned Fishing, then Mining - BronzeWorking. Built a WorkBoat to work the Fish, a new Quecha to explore, then popped a Worker, and built 2 more Quechas. Now we get to my first picture.



    It's 2470 BC. I can see a string of Barb Warriors heading my way from the North. And wouldn't you know it, a Barb Archer from the South. I put the Quecha from Cuzco into the Forest to protect the Worker (who is chopping a Forest to get more Quecha's built.) This is just the beginning as Barb after Barb show up from the Dark to the North. Fortunately my Quecha protects the Worker and that Archer is the only visitor from the South. Just as I clear the surroundings and start to move out, more Barbs show up. Pretty soon I realize there's a Barb city just to the West (between the Gold and the Gems). Nothing else to do but build a huge stack and take it out. I have so many Quecha's that my Economy has ground to a halt; I'm actually -1 gpt at 0% Science. Eventually I do capture the city (and manage to take a Worker in the process). Another Barb city has shown up on the Floodplains, and I capture that one as well. It's roughly 1100 BC, I have 3 cities and control of my frontier, finally.

    Research wise, I'm really dragging. I've got contact with Egypt, and she offers me Open Borders first. OK, she has Writing already (and I'm still working on my Barb problem). I eventually get Wheel, and Pottery (start getting Granaries in my cities), and make it to Writing. I start saving for Alphabet, when I see by the F4 screen that she has it already, and isn't willing to share any of the 8 Techs she already knows. I get a WorkBoat out to look for friendlier AI, but that has little bearing on my story. I start building some Libraries.

    Things take a turn for the much, much worse when stacks of Egyptian units start showing up. And they're not escorting Settlers. What to do? There is absolutely nothing I can trade her. Start preparing, I guess. So in 415 BC she declares war. Here is the layout.



    She has stacks of Swordsmen, a few Axes, a Spear or two and some Archers. I have gotten some Axes built, and the Quecha's are still effective against the Archers. I actually start off holding my own. But more and more units keep coming. Soon she is sending stacks of Horse Archers and War Chariots. I should have expected that. I set off to learn Hunting as quickly as possible to get Spears in the field, but too late to save the Floodplains city as it falls. After that we have turn after turn of battle. Often I have to drop back to my cities; if I get too aggressive and come after her units there's usually a stack behind the target which counter attacks. I am pretty effective behind my city walls, but then the units pillage the heck out of my empire.

    So its about 200 AD now. This war has been dragging on for 600 years! She's taken the one city, but other than a few close calls, that's been about it. I am so far behind its ridiculous, but I'd really like to sign peace some day and try to make something of the shambles around me. I've got my two cities, and when I manage to do in her latest attack I send my workers out to reconnect the cities and rebuild my lost improvements. But I'm still stuck in the early AA. (Although one of the far off AI decided to gift me Alphabet!) I'm somewhat afraid she'll keep at this war until she can send Maces or Knights; that will probably bring the end quickly.
     
  6. 7Losses

    7Losses Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Gold Coast, Queensland, Australia
    Tried Quecha rush 3 times, died 3 times. Either to MASSIVE surges of barbarians pillaging the smeg out of me or re-curring rotten luck. I.E Hat killing a fortified quecha in a forest with an archer (happened more than you'd think.

    first I tried the pillage route, I managed to pillage every single tile but that didn't seem to slow her down in the slightest.

    2nd game I tried building up a sizable force I'e about 15 Quecha to attack but half were killed by Barbs along the way and re-inforcements were constantly defending my capitol from other barbs.

    3rd, same as second game but I tried getting a 2nd city quickly

    Dag nabit.

    (Gonna try a 4th time, the peaceful route!)
     
  7. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

    Joined:
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    Melbourne, AUS Reputation:131^(9/2)
    My game, I'm still alive, with 6 cities in my corner of the world. Built my capital on the plains hill N of the gems, and research to horses, bronze and iron ASAP, mostly to fight barbs. After building my first settler, I decided to take a risk and send him out undefended towards the original start location, which unfortunately resulted in the Razing of and undefended Tiwanaku. I then proceded to build more quechas and archers until I felt safe send another settler out, which was done (IIRC) when the Saxons got a city and sent archer after archer into my northern territory. Machu picchu was founded without hassle, and having the required tech and resource for chariots, I built a nice army of them and took Saxon. By this time Egypt was creepily huge in comparison, and still having not met ANYONE else, I knew I was in deep trouble if I wanted to survive. So, I converted to Hinduism, built a couple more cities, took another barbarian city, and hope. So far I'm still not dead, only 1 civ hates me, the rest are neutral (bar 1, who was stuck on a 1 tile island + 1 other city and without the nessecary tech (Optics) I couldnt reach them)

    And a strange occurance happened in my game, the Egyptians actually GIFTED me techs when THEY intiated diplomacy! Not that it helped me get any closer tech wise, having been gifted CS after someone learnt Liberalism...
     
  8. The Mad Swede

    The Mad Swede Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Sandviken, Sweden
    Contender

    Settled one north to get the gems and keep up with the tech and attempted an early Quechua rush. Turned out Egypt was too far north, too well defended (the only city I saw was on a hill with a bunch of archers) and way too strong. So I chickened out and concentrated on barb defense. I actually did well here, I only lost my gems for a few turns.

    Founded cities near the gold and north of the rice mountain and later on two more. Barbs had a city by the wine which I wanted but I stalled and the ridiculously fast expansion of the Egyptians stole it from me and hemmed me in. I was able to trade a few techs with Egypt and others, but soon I was just to far behind.

    It looks like I will have to go for a peaceful game and try to survive as long as possible. That is my goal. The highest level I have won at is Monarch so this is just too difficult to try anything else. At least Hatty loves me.
     
  9. JerichoHill

    JerichoHill Bedrock of Knowledge

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    10,384
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Maybe. I can look at that tonight. There was no way for me to avoid it though, thought I had enough defenses, and I did! fortified quecha vs. archer and fortified archer on hill vs. archer.

    Sigh.

    I think I win quickest game and defeat...
     
  10. Jastrow

    Jastrow Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Messages:
    2,685
    Location:
    Germany
    I had a decent start... I started with dreams of a Quencha rush, but my explorings somehow missed Hatty completly... I actually popped a couple of huts in the extrem north west of the continet, and still had not found her... I though I was alone on the continet until almost 0BC!!!

    Anyway, with no Quencha rush, I set up to build a bunch of cities... Got to about 7 or so by 0AD. Everything was going fine, and I was very please with my progress... I was looking good for an early liberalism, maybe even ~900 AD or so, then reality struck!! In about 350AD, I got informed someone else got it... YIKES!!! Diety is clearly beyond my means.

    As of 500AD, I am still alive and kicking... I have my 9 cities up, but still only one religion...I will continue plucking away hoping to get a diplo (at leat Hatty loves me) or culture, but franly, with LIberalism already that far past, and only one religion, and no trading partners, I fear that spaceships will be departing long before I can get anywhere near those aims.
     
  11. spacemanmf

    spacemanmf Stalwart

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
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    64
    Location:
    Manchester, England
    I played safe having had a quick practice game (not the GOTM, though, obviously) beforehand. A brief bit of scouting and then an unashamed retreat to await the barbarian archer hordes. My well-placed Quechas had things under control but that and the cost of units made my expansion reluctant and slow.

    No matter, I make friends with Hatty and watch the Egyptians capture the Barbarian city to the west which I hadn't even got round to thinking about taking.

    I desperately try to find other civs for tech trading possibilities, and I do manage some trades, but the mismatch in scores is laughable. I just tell myself this is the hardest level, the AIs have ridiculous bonuses, and I am doing well to stay alive.

    So that's all it is. A game of how long I can stay alive. Can I make it to the mid-second millennium space race? Probably. But with no threat of being anywhere near knowing about such technology by that time.

    At least the game is quick and breezy, rather than my successful but laborious conquest/domination attempts on some of the past Noble/Prince GOTMs.

    @DynamicSpirit - either the original Warlords or the Warlords patch changed it so that you can't see if there are any units on boats, which is sort of fair enough, but I keep forgetting (to my cost)...
     
  12. Markus5

    Markus5 Code Monkey

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
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    683
    Location:
    Lino Lakes, MN, USA
    Contender.

    I'm done. I finished in the final spoiler, so I'll try to stay within this spoiler.

    Founded on the hill. Explored. Found Hatty, no others til later. Built Qs, workboat, a settler, hooked up gems and copper. Build a mess o axes. Planned to settle 2nd city by the gold or by the stone. Barb cities built both places first. Settled in between. Mess o axes took the barb city by the gold. Hatty, rotten Hatty got the barb city by the stone. I was only a couple of turns from having the mess o axes in place. I almost declared. But, no, I'm chicken. Built additional cities with the goal of a culture victory.

    More in the final spoiler.
     
  13. Jove

    Jove Not Lacking Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
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    837
    Location:
    2nd Place
    Contender.

    Also founded on the hill. Immediately saw the cornucopia of resources in the immediate area and decided to research fishing first. Built 2 quechas and a workboat to start, researched Mining and BW next.

    Didn't have very good luck in exploration. The first 2 quechas became bear fodder. We'd met Hattie's scout but weren't sure where her land was. So the quecha rush plan winked out because to where, praytell would the quechas rush?

    Instead we more or less gave up on exploration and set up a fogbusted perimeter instead. Settled a few towns (no barb towns in the immediate area) and then the barb onslaught began. The axes were much sooner than expected, they came very close to capturing El Dorado by the gold, but chariots came on line and saved the day.

    Hattie seemed to have trouble with the barbs too and didn't grow quickly until the barbs were later brought under control. Have been planning an attack on Alexandria near the sugar for a long time and keep putting it off, first for cats, then horse archers, then Hattie had a GA and who wants to attack deity AI in their GA?

    So now it's 410 AD. We've got 8 towns controlling some good rivers and coasts, room for a few more but Hattie is really snapping up some land. Just learned CS, would like to trade it around for gold, Machinery, etc, but that would obsolete Quechas which would be nice to upgrade later, so how long can I wait? Not sure what to do yet. Will attack Hattie in a couple turns when her GA ends and hope we can hang on through the first war- just to capture the one town would be good enough.
    I don't know where this one is going to go. I'd like a military win but it seems like I'm behind the ball on that. I'm just about to attack our best hindu buddy, so diplo won't work unless we can conquer the Egyptians completely. Space would be pretty tough too, but still possible I guess. A fun but very tough game- feels like I'm in a pickle for sure.
     
  14. ngraner42

    ngraner42 Ultrarunner

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    I settled on the hill in order to get quick use of the gems, picked up needed worker techs and then pushed for Metal Casting. I got Metal Casting and completed the Colossus in 505BC, which let me run a sea tile based economy.

    Teched to Alphabet in 475BC and traded Hatty for Hunting, Math, Sailing and Iron Working. Received the kiss of death when Hatty gifted me Construction in 25BC. Teched to Macemen in 335AD and began producing an army of Macemen and Cats.

    At the same time I grew to a total of 8 cities not growing too fast to hurt the economy. Quechas created a fog busting screen and I had no troubles with barbarians. Military expense was about 5gp/turn. By 500AD Hatty's borders were touching mine. Hatty had grabbed the Wine site before I got to it, but it should be easily captured.

    Nothing special, basic solid expansion and tech progress. The next phase would normally be taking out Hatty while greatly expanding the empire. I'll tell you how it went in the final spoiler.
     
  15. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Fear him of the pink tie Moderator GOTM Staff

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    London, UK
    It was the warlords patch that did it. So if you're playing WOTMs you now have to assume any enemy galley is loaded. Vanilla civ is still kinder in this regard (though I guess the warlords version is more realistic)
     
  16. Adonias

    Adonias Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
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    154
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Chalenger (the full monty diety version :x)

    Let's first state I got lucky while not deserving it:

    I built Cuzco on the plains hill, and worked the plains forest getting quechua's out every 6 or 5 turns.

    First Q went north in a wide zigzag starting NW, first meeting an Egyptian scout, then finding a goodiehut, popping AH... talk about risks getting rewarded!

    In the meantime two other Q are moving north, where I saw hatti's scout, gaining promotions from animals.

    Cuzco went on building Q's, busting fog, when my first Q found another hut to the north op the continent (west of where a couple of turns later I discovered hatti's borders) popping.... WRITING... WTH.. this is Diety, still, I like my risks getting rewarded :)

    So, Hattis' borders discoverd, three promoted Q's were heading her way. Two with flanking, one with flanking and cityraider (yes, I love barbs).

    First war
    Spoiler :
    I found Thebes to be defended only by one archer, but that was tree turns before my cityraider Q arived, so i descided to wait before declairing war (yea, I had open borders agreement to settle hatti's nerves). Before the third Q arived I declared war however, as a worker within reach had just finished a road and was about to move out of reach. Hatti had just built a second archer, but her cultural protection was still 20%! 3 turns later Thebes fell!

    Turn 33 (3010 BC)
    War declared: Egyptian Empire
    Quechua defeats (2.00/2): Egyptian Worker

    Turn 36 (2920 BC)
    Quechua defeats (0.40/2): Egyptian Archer
    Quechua defeats (2.00/2): Egyptian Archer
    Captured Thebes (Hatshepsut)

    What to do.. what to do... I descided to gamble again. I kept Thebes, starting a settler in Cuzco, prepping to leave it. All fogbusting Q's were rushed north, but of the three only two arived. Thebes was building Q's.

    Turn 44 (2680 BC)
    Tech learned: Bronze Working

    That's swell... bronze next to thebes... started researching the wheel, on my way to pottery, in order to get my sloppy and stopping economy back online.

    The fait of Cuzco
    Spoiler :
    Turn 54 (2380 BC)
    Cuzco finishes: Settler
    Thebes finishes: Quechua

    Turn 55 (2350 BC)
    Cuzco begins: Stonehenge

    Turn 56 (2320 BC)
    Cuzco lost


    Second war:
    Spoiler :
    Turn 57 (2290 BC)
    War declared: Egyptian Empire

    I now had two CR Cover promoted Q's moving towards Heliopolis and one unpromoted one for good measure. Meanwhile during the peace (I took peace after taking thebes as soon as I could to again settle hatti's nerves and make her start building settlers rather than archers), Hatti slipped by a settler and founded elephantine just west of Thebes. Ouch for my bronze so:

    Turn 59 (2230 BC)
    Quechua defeats (0.98/2): Egyptian Archer
    Quechua defeats (2.00/2): Egyptian Archer
    Captured Heliopolis (Hatshepsut)
    Quechua defeats (0.10/2): Egyptian Archer
    Razed Elephantine


    From the spoils I upgraded my by now CR2/Cover promoted Q to an axe, built two more axes which got cover from fighting loose archers, sent all my Q's to (ranging from cover promoted to CR2/Cover promoted to Memphis, which was defended by only 3 archers (yes, she had built a settler :) I'm not lol yet because those 3 archers were 1) on a hill 2) in a city with 40% defence 3) had garison 4) were fortified):

    Fait of the Egyptian empire
    Spoiler :
    Turn 68 (1960 BC)
    Axeman loses to: Egyptian Archer (1.92/3)
    Quechua loses to: Egyptian Archer (0.60/3)
    Axeman loses to: Egyptian Archer (1.08/3)
    Axeman loses to: Egyptian Archer (1.41/3)
    Quechua loses to: Egyptian Archer (0.93/3)
    Quechua defeats (1.52/2): Egyptian Archer
    Quechua defeats (1.54/2): Egyptian Archer
    Quechua defeats (1.56/2): Egyptian Archer
    Captured Memphis (Hatshepsut)
    Egyptian Empire eliminated


    After that my economy was a tad better, because of all the lost units, I was fogbusting against barbs, my settler from cuzco's last breath was ready to
    Spoiler :
    resettle Elephantine
    , and I was building libraries like mad to get to pottery, which I got.. eventually, using up the spoils of war:

    Turn 95 (1150 BC)
    Tech learned: Pottery

    Cottage spamming, settler and worker building time began. Libraries everywhere, cottages everywhere, building a workboat to start discovering other peoples, b-lining towards COL for trading (suposing the AI would have alphabet, making it obsolete for me at the moment).

    Now, at 0BC, I found:
    Spoiler :
    Ghandi and Tuko. I traded COL (I got it just in the BC's) for Iron working and hunting (yea... hopelessely behind), so I can start chopping jungle and expand some more, and started CS (does nice also in the trading industry

    I am dead last in score (4 times lower score then the highest oponent discoverd, economy is doing ok, but not great, cottages are becomming hamlets and towns, city spawning is slow due to slow economy, power is low, need to start building an army now, barbs are not so much a problem anymore (still no axes ???!!). All's good, but I doubt I'm going to win this. I'll try going for diplomacy... but who knows....
     
  17. Erkon

    Erkon Deity Retired Moderator GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    3,910
    Location:
    Malmö, Sweden
    GOTM15 – History of Erkon Capac (Challenger)​

    This is the history of Erkon Capac witnessed by the scribes of the Incan Empire. Please note that references to civilization leaders far away have been replaced with AI1, AI2 etc.

    The early years
    Spoiler :
    I move my Quechua directly to the northwest without first climbing the hills to the southeast. Hopefully I will find an AI and steal a worker. Then it will be closer to walk to the gems, compared if I searched in another direction. I also move my settler to the north (hills/plains) for the extra production, and to get gems in the fat cross. The reason to move the Quechua northwest directly is that I will not change my decision to move my settler north regardless of what the Quechua would reveal. The Quechua continues northwest and then west until the oceans. There I climb the golden hill and get ambushed by a lion. I survive but it was very close (8 turns healing time – ouch!). Second Quechua is completed, and I decided to start a worker (for two turns), since I don’t think I will manage to steal a worker. Second Quechua moves south.

    Fishing complete, start with mining (13 turns). Switch to workboat (for 15 turns).

    Cuzco size 2, work forested plains to save a turn on the workboat.

    Workboat completed, continue with worker. Bear shows up, I evade. Barbarian warrior show up. I challenge the warrior by entering an adjacent tile. I will have use of the XP, but it’s a gamble…which I win!

    First contact
    Spoiler :
    Meet Hatchepsut. That’s good news. Worker complete, moving to gems. First Quechua stationed on gold to fogbust and reserve site for second city. Second Quechua stationed to the north for the same reason. Build another Quechua.

    Quechua out, Cuzco size 3, begin settler.

    Mine on gems, nice! Research goes from 12 bpt to 19 bpt.

    B.W. completed, nice with copper in fat cross. And at the site to the north. Very nice.

    A.H. completed, nice with horses in fat cross. Writing in 13 turns.

    Settler out, build one more Quechua before another settler.

    Settler city to the north (5N, 1W) to grab copper and eventually work rice and sheep. This will become an excellent production city. Hatshepsut has a lot of food, but not that much production or gold. Research at 90%, which is ok.

    Hatshepsut adopts Organized Religion, which indicates that she is not researching writing (which I will have in 5 turns).

    Quechua done in Tiwanaku (north city), start Obelisk. There’s no need to build library in that city, since there’s no commerce tiles. Capital cultural border will expand to rice, but I want the sheep as well. I also like the extra visibility, so Obelisk it will be. Put one Quechua on copper, move another to block any barbarians that may threaten the gems.

    Writing completed, wheel next. I need to connect my cities for the extra commerce, to enable a more mobile defence and to connect resources.

    Settler out in Cuzco, library next. I work fish, gems and horse. The library would take three turns less if I worked the copper, and the library would then generate 3*4 beakers extra. However, the horse generates one commerce/turn and 14>3*4. Horses then. Settler will found the third city to the west (between clams and gold). The pigs will have to wait for border expansion, and it’s worth that since I want to be able to work the grassland/hills 1NE of gold, and the forest/plains 2N of gold. The latter tile will be excellent for a cottage, and this city will generate LOTS of commerce.

    Darn, I forgot to offer Open Borders with Hatchepsut. She has six cities, and I have three. I’m in seventh place on the Demographics in all important areas, apart from BNP, which I am at fifth place. That’s promising…

    Pyramids 1720 BC. Not by me ;-)

    Wheel completed, alphabet next.

    Oracle 1630 BC built in Egypt (Code of Laws). Year not that impressive actually.

    I will need to explore a bit soon but I also need to connect my resources. Workers or Quechuas?..

    Axemen is advancing toward Cuzco! Workboat for exploration complete, build quechuas for cannon fodder. Copper connected to Tiwanaku in two turns, but that may be too late. Please don’t kill me..

    It lost three Quechuas to the Axeman, it is clearly time to build some myself.

    Contact with the advanced aliens
    Spoiler :
    Met AI1, had nothing to trade. Met AI2, traded away alphabet for Pottery, Masonry and Priesthood. Next round I traded Literature for Sailing and Hunting.

    Gifted Literacy to Hatshepsut and hoped to get a +4 bonus. If so, she would start trading tech. No luck, no adjustment to relations. Mistake. Iron working in. Research is at 40 bpt, and I have two new settlers. I want to stake some land, and I expect my two western cities to start generating more commerce, so I can afford these two cities. I’ll probably run research at 50% for a while, but my long term target is to keep it at 70%.

    Hmm, I dropped to 40%, with 22 bpt. Not good at all, so no new units for a while. I’ve started the Great Library, and if Im too late, I’ll get some gold to fund my research.

    I negotiated deal with AI2 to get 5 gold and clams for my copper.

    235 BC – Most advanced civilizations of the world:
    AI1
    AI2
    Unknown
    Hatshepsut
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Me

    Back to 40 bpt, and increasing.

    Traded monarchy to AI2 for meditation, monotheism and 120 gold. GL built by AI1, so gifting Literature was not a disaster, just a waste. Now, I need to get a 10 XP unit so that I can build the Heroic Epic. Met AI3. It’s good to have him in the game (mostly harmless)

    State of the Incan Empire as of 5 AD
    Spoiler :
    The priests assemble together with the Royalty and the Warlords of the Incan Empire at Machu Picchu. They report that there is no more room for expansion and that the neighboring civilization known as Egypt is growing at an alarming rate. If nothing is done, the Incan Civilization will sooner or later become a neglected people shadowed by other cultures. The Royals explode in anger and the Warlords starts to chant “kill-kill-kill”. An inventory of assets is requested and planning for an invasion is ordered. State of the nation as of 5 AD:

    6 Cities
    State Religion = Hinduism
    Religions = 5 x Hinduism, 1 x Judaism
    Population = 7, 7, 5, 4, 2, 2
    Total food surplus = 14 fpt
    Total production = 54 hpt
    Research = 49 bpt
    Buildings (3 x Obelisk, 2 x Barracks, 2 x Granary, 2 x Library, 2 x Lighthouse, Hindu Temple, Hindu Monastery)
    Units = 3 x Worker, Work Boat, Chariot, 4 x Quechua, 2 x Swordsman, 4 x Axeman, Spearman
    Research: Iron Working, Monarchy, Literature, Mathematics, Construction in 2 turns.

    Plans: invade Egypt while they are expanding, since they won’t have any significant mobile army.

    First Egyptian Wars
    Spoiler :
    35 AD – Construction. This is when I normally get it, and this time I made a detour to Monarchy, so I am not delayed compared to my normal play. The AI is however racing ahead like if there was no tomorrow. This will be very hard to win. And I’ve very worried that AI3 is going to do something stupid, like DoW me…

    65 AD – Longbowmen in Egyptian cities, no surprise, rather a disappointment.

    I prefer to have a substantial amount of units, so it will take of more turns to amass the necessary force.

    185 AD – This hurts me more than you think, Queen Hatshepsut, but to frank with you: Your head will look good on the end of a pole.

    290 AD – Captured Alexandria (Egyptian city in the middle of the continent adjacent to Fresh Water Lakes and Silk). Courthouse and 8 population. Lost two cats.

    I build an academy the turn before learning Code of Laws, instead of lightbulbing Compass. If I had waited one turn, I could have lightbulbed Philosophy. OTH, AI1 has Philosophy but no Code of Laws. Let’s see what he and AI2 is willing to trade… 130 gold from AI2. 440 from AI1 (he upgrades to Pleased). I sell wine to AI2 @ 2 gpt. Not much, but will hopefully generate relation points.

    There is only one plantation resource on the continent as far as I have seen, so I will skip Calender. Instead I’ll grab Currency (6 turns at 100% research), since the extra trade routes will give me some more gold. Then I’ll aim for Metal Casting (the two extra happiness from gold and gems will be useful later on in the war).

    I trade CoL to AI3 for 160 gold. That brings him up to cautious, without incurring any penalty from AI1. Nice.

    350 AD – Elephantine (city north of Alexandria 2E from corn) has 6 units (3 of them cats). I want that city very much, due to it’s strategic location (connecting the western Egyptian lands with the eastern). I’ll climb the jungle/hills next to the city. The AI is not good at defending strategic tiles. I just hope she wont pop up crossbowmen within the next ten turns…

    Alexandria exits resistance and I whip a Barracks, and then a Catapult. H is suiciding units (catapults and horse archers) and finally I have a level 4 unit.

    425 AD – Currency. The advisor keeps telling me to build settlers, even though I have a sustained research rate at 40% (66 bpt). It’s like the game is not aware of the Deity settings! The extra trade route provides 2 commerce / city totaling 14 commerce/turn. Nice. I build units in my capital and production city, while the two most distant cities are building courthouses. I have chopped forest for the National Epic and will whip it next turn.

    440 AD – Maceman in Elephantine. Darn.

    470 AD – AI1 wants to trade world map. That’s fine with me.

    485 AD – Assault on Elephantine:
    H.C. has 5 cats, 3 swordsmen, 3 horse archers, 1 axe, 1 spear, 1 chariot
    H. has 2 longbowmen, 1 maceman, 1 horse archer, 2 cats, 1 war chariot
    I am pretty sure I will win. Lets start with the cats:
    All my five cats dies. Not even one withdraw… Let’s continue with the swordsmen:
    75% - dies
    84% - my first win
    90% - dies (horse archer)
    94% - win
    Five units left on each side…
    99.9% - win
    99.1% - win
    99.8% - win
    97.0% - win
    Final unit:
    Spoiler :

    99.9% - win, city falls. Phew.

    Kong Miao, Courthouse and Granary. Not bad. Let’s try to get a peace treaty. My stack is gone. 100 gold. Well, I’ll take that. She’s still pleased, and agrees to open borders. Now it’s time to build Heroic Epic, forges and a new stack. I had a nice blend, I’m mainly concerned that my swordsmen are obsolete now. On the other hand, the next couple of Egyptian cities are on plains, not hills. Trade sheep for 8 gold to AI3.

    500 AD – State of the nation
    Spoiler :

    8 Cities
    State Religion = Hinduism
    Religions = 7 x Hinduism, 3 x Judaism, 2 x Conficianism (Holy City)
    Population = 11, 8, 6, 6, 6, 4, 3, 2
    Total food surplus = 17 fpt
    Total production = 69 hpt
    Research = 80 bpt
    Buildings (20 + Academy + National Epic + Kong Miao)
    Units = 5 x Worker, 2 x Naval, 21 Land Units
    Research: Metal Casting, Code of Laws, Currency, Machinery in 10 turns.

    Plans: Build infrastructure, then another army to grab Hatshepsut’s juicy cities.

    Target victory condition: domination. Chance to win: very small. I will need to kill AI1 to win, and to do so, I need artillery and infantry.
     
  18. psk0212

    psk0212 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Upstate NY, USA
    First Deity game ever - Contender class

    Settled one tile north of starting position. Started pumping out quechas, sent them off searching for someone to rush. Most became bear/lion food, but did find Hattie. Seemed too far to rush, and too many losses to animals along the way, so decided to just try to survive. Fortunately Hattie founded Hinduism, which I converted to, and we were best buddies for the rest of the game - even got a Defensive Pact with her eventually.

    Spent quite a bit of time fighting barbs, finally got my corner settled with 8 cities and lived a quiet life.

    Moderator Action: Post 500 AD stuff removed
     
  19. AU_Armageddon

    AU_Armageddon Cenobyte

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    123
    Location:
    Hades
    Contender.
    Am I the only person who didn't like the start spot? I explored north and settled between the rice and sheep, working the rice immediately and researching mining for the gems.

    Had written off Quech rush on deity as frivilous risk and planned on settling a solid base going straight for cats following core econ techs ignoring trying for early trading strats. Strat confirmed as best for me upon discovering how far Hatti was on this difficulty.

    Planted 6 good cities and went all out military moving into the cat tech:

    Ploughed into Hatti taking 6 or 7 cities including capital + next capital before WW became crippling. Had secured most of the east half with only 2 Hatti cities left to take on that side and her numerous western cities were all crap.

    Then when I restarted the war the Civ Gods struck and I lost my whole army to a misclick, entire stack attacking when I only had to bombard for a turn and then walk it over with almost no losses. I cracked it and went to uninstall Civ, a well timed phone call stalling me long enough to calm down. Dun want any more part of GotM15 though. The snowball costs of the loss are incalculable, but certainly high enough to sap the fun out of the remaining hours and hours and hours needed for a game like this one. Not submitting or even looking at that save again :mad:
     
  20. Jove

    Jove Not Lacking Altitude

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2001
    Messages:
    837
    Location:
    2nd Place
    After thinking it over I decided sooner is better than later and attacked Egypt, GA or no. So far the campaign is a success, we've captured Alexandria. Maybe there is hope after all :D
     

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