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[PTW] GOTM 156 France Emperor 20k - 1st Spoiler - End of ancient times

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by Più Freddo, Feb 23, 2017.

  1. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    This thread is for your reports of events and progress in the GOTM 156 France Emperor 20k game up to the date where you are able to research a Medieval tech.

    Do not read or post in this thread until you meet this condition. You may reveal Medieval bonus techs from the end of the last Ancient turn and discuss your plans for continuing the game.

    Please do not post information here relating to later dates, and please only post maps of your home area and no mini-maps.
     
  2. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    Sorry guys, I just realized that there were no spoilers for this game!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  3. greatbeyond

    greatbeyond Chieftain

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    My experience appears to be the same as some who commented in the announcement for this game. I lost 5 citizens to flood plain disease before I was able to get the Colossus completed. This led to being behind the AIs in wonder production timing. With 10 AIs there were frequent cascades of wonder production. The Colossus was the first and last wonder I was able to build. Shortly after building the Colossus I got a great leader but was never able to use it to speed up any wonder.

    Trying to be tricky I moved my settler inland and settled along the river, producing a settler and settling him 1S of the original starting spot. I was just off the river but I reasoned I could build an aqueduct later, hopefully disease would be less of a problem, and a better mix of tiles. Hopefully I could then use palace prebuilds to get some extra wonders. I reasoned the AIs would be scattered and the tech pace would be slow enough to allow me to build at least a couple early wonders. As noted above, disease decimated my efforts. In addition, the lack of any happy resources nearby led me to reduce my science slider and boost the luxury slider and keep the citizens working on my early wonder production busy. This of course led to slower research. One of the first priorities early on was to get a settler to, and connect to, the only happy resource nearby. Connecting the fur helped but it still required liberal use of the luxury slider.

    Exploration quickly showed there was a lot of room to the northwest of us and quite a bit of room between us and the Indians, Ottomans, and Persians. I endeavored to get as many settlers as I could in that direction to block the other civs. I also hoped to discover at least a couple of luxury resources and take possession of them. I was mostly successful, other than not finding any luxury resources anywhere on the continent other than fur which I already had. I had several warriors patrolling in this area and the AIs started sending numerous settlers into the area. Hoping to slow them down and get some workers, I declared on the Ottomans who were the least powerful, losing 3 warriors against a warrior escort. The ottomans sent many units to the fray but I was able to eventually fight them to a standstill and peace was declared. Things looked good until the Persians came calling with a bunch of Immortals. I was able to slow them down but did lose two cities, eventually getting peace. The Persians used their Immortals to severely cut back the number of Indian and Ottoman cities.

    Almost every early wonder was built in successive cascades by civilizations not present on our continent. It was not a good sign that one of the AIs completed the Sistine Chapel while those of us on this continent were still 2 techs short of getting into the Medieval age. I nursed along a palace prebuild for a long time hoping to get a wonder, finally settling for the Forbidden Palace. My great leader still sits waiting for the right opportunity.
     
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Even though I'm not eligible to join the competition, I also played this game as I didn't have a 20K game in a long time and was feeling like it. (And in order to try out, whether the game was indeed too difficult...) I admit it is indeed a challenge, but it should be doable for most GOTM veterans. After all, the start position has some decent production capacity (once you get out of the ancient age so that you no longer suffer from FPD...), and there is a big stretch of good land around you, with the AIs far enough away so that you can claim a big part of it despite the slow start that a 20K game usually causes.

    I settled in place and used the capital as my wonder city. I think in this case it's the best option: there simply isn't any other location close by that would be equivalent to the start position! (The floodplain wheat allows quick growth - even when taking the occasional disease casualty into account - and the hills and mountain plus a few mined deserts should provide decent production.) When designing the map, I hoped that everyone would recognize this and would use the straightforward approach of settling in place. So I'm very sorry to hear, greatbeyond, that this didn't work out for you :(

    The disease certainly slowed you down a bit, but I think that this was not the decisive factor for your troubles: as far as I can see from your description, your decisive mistake was to not found on the river! (BTW: 1 south of the original starting position is water?! I assume you founded the 20K town 1S-1SE?!) In a 20K game you have to bring your town to size 12 asap! You simply cannot afford to wait until Construction is researched, and you can't afford wasting 100s on an aqueduct. Especially on higher difficulty levels, where you need to be faster than the AI.

    Here is my approach, if you want to compare:
    1. Settled in place and first built an early settler. I figured that with the game tile and some more flood plains there would be a good location for a worker-pump that could pump up my capital.
    2. Afterwards the capital began producing wonders, while the second town first produced a few warriors for protection and scouting and then a number of workers. The workers first improved the tiles for the capital (while the capital was growing to size 7) and when they finished their job, they were joined into the capital to get to size 12 (as finished tiles became available).
    3. When I had enough workers, the second town switched to settler production (and another town with enough food took over the worker duty).
    After the first settler, the capital built the following things:
    1550 BC: Pyramids (this had the additional benefit, that neither my worker nor my settler pump had to waste shields on a granary...)
    (The turn before I had joined the last three workers to reach size 12 and 15 spt production -- just enough to finish the Pyramids in one turn.)
    1450 BC: Temple
    1400 BC: Archer, 1350 BC: Spearman (I got worried about some AI warriors approaching and wanted some more protection. Also I had calculated that any possible pre-build would overrun before I was able to finish research of Literature. After these two units I used a courthouse or something as pre-build, which was just sufficient to get me through the last turns of Literature.)
    730 BC: Great Library
    370 BC: Great Lighthouse (This triggers my Golden Age, production jumps from 18spt to 28spt. A despotic GA is not optimal, but I had no other wonder, and at least this would allow me to get a few other wonders that would otherwise definitely go to the AI. I had already lost the Colossus to Babylon and the Oracle to the Ottomans. Didn't want to lose any more wonders...)
    290 BC: Library
    130 BC: Finished research of Republic, but of course waited with the revolution until after my GA.
    110 BC: Great Wall
    10 BC: Colosseum
    50 AD: My GA ends, so I revolt. In the same turn the Persians and Indians finish the last AA tech (Polytheism), I get it from the GLib and enter the Middle Age.

    After the anarchy period, the plan is now to research Monarchy quickly (before my 100s marketplace pre-build runs over...) and then grab the last ancient age wonder: the Hanging Gardens. Out of the 7 wonders of the ancient age, 5 would then go to me and only Colossus and Oracle to the 10 emperor AIs. I think this shows that the start location indeed had a good potential.

    Here is my (small) empire in 50 AD:

    (Hmm, I can't upload files at the moment?! It keeps saying: "The following error occurred: There was a problem uploading your file." Well, that tells me the reason, doesn't it...?! :mischief:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
  5. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    By the way: instead of letting your first MGL sit idle while you don't have anything useful to build, why didn't you form an Army and built the Heroic Epic?!? That's 4 cpt at only 200s and it increases the chances for getting further leaders for the medieval wonders!
     
  6. Nata

    Nata Chieftain

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    After reading Pre-game discussion and this thread I realize how lucky I am in not getting Flood Plain decease ever at all! I was unlucky in other respects but this one was key.
    This, and settling in place. Yes, I was of similar opinion to Lanzelot that on Emperor you had to settle in place if you already had a place on the river/coast and with mountains.

    Setlled in place. Palace 4000BC.
    Forgot about "no barbs" and built a warrior first, then started on a settler but went for the Temple instead, researching CB.
    Temple 2670BC.
    Then it was a settler who found Orleans E on a river, then straight to Colossus.
    Colossus 1750BC.
    Exploration went slow, haven't met the other Civs for ages. Finally they found me and I traded some techs including Mysticism.
    Switched from Pyramids to Oracle as was afraid not to finish Pyramids in time.
    Oracle 1175BC.
    Had Lit researched by then.
    Library 1025BC.
    Then straight to Great Library which proved crucial at this stage. My research was slow, my lux slider was high, and Great Lib let me ride Persia/Ottomans into parity right into Medieval times.
    Great Library 450BC.
    I missed on Great Lighthouse, had galleys out late and hadn't reach the other continents for the long time, but Otto and Persia gave me Construction etc.
    Colloseum 290 BC.
    They also both got Mono and I got into Medieval Times at 50BC and could immediately switch whatever I had to Cathedral, and start on Theology.

    Attached is the shot om my empire at 50BC. My exploration was slow and I was overrun by settlers from other Civs at that time, but kept my peace while converting warriors into swords.

    Or, and I got Republic somewhere before that, drew 4 turns of Anarchy and had Paris lose 2 citizens due to starvation during it... That was annoying, but not that important by then.
     

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    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Interesting: you built a warrior, a temple and a settler and then still got the Colossus. I built only a settler, and then lost the Colossus to the AI (luckily, I was able to convert the collected shields to the Pyramids and get that instead). Strange how different these games can turn out, even early on.
     
  8. Nata

    Nata Chieftain

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    Lanzelot, I checked Orleans founding date and saw that I built Settler first, i.e. Warrior, Settler and then Temple. And then Colossus, while never getting FP decease. I think that was a major factor in getting Colossus before everyone else: going at max shields and getting there quickly.

    I remember changing my mind and switching something to Temple, but that was probably Colossus, and not Settler. I.e. I was going for Colossus but then decided - no, let's have Temple first.
     
  9. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

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    I had exactly the same initial build sequence as Nata, and was also completely spared from Disease.

    3650 BC Warrior
    3200 BC Settler
    2630 BC Temple
    1790 BC The Colossus
    1100 BC The Great Library
    _975 BC Library
    _550 BC The Great Lighthouse
    _390 BC Colosseum

    Entered the Middle Ages in 290 BC, building The Great Wall, which will trigger my Golden Age.
     

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