GOTM 161 Spoiler

[Ali Ardavan]

...Maybe I will keep Kish for trade by 2019 ...

You are deliberately planning to end on 2019? Why? To Maximize your score?

In a huge map Civ 2 played more time ago I 'learned' this,max 144 cities can be founded,in this 'unusually' map too,144?

The limit is 255 and it applies to all cities in the game not just yours. The limit is independent of the map size.

... mouse jump or forgetting that must be in a city in this turn, planes without fuel

If you hit the wrong key, or as you called it if your mouse jumps, you are allowed to go back to the last save as long as you faithfully recreate everything up to that point. In late game this is neither feasible nor worthwhile. Nevertheless, it is not considered cheating to undo something you did not intend to do in the first place.

Good Luck with that. I am well into the game. I have eliminated the Americans (Persians respawn in China), Spanish (Egyptians respawn in West Central Africa), French (Germans respawn in South America, probably Argentina, I found that amusing), and Germans (Vikings in Eastern Africa).

Good point. I finally eliminated Americans last night. I started a war at the point of switching to Democracy and oddly enough they did not ask for cease fire or peace. Chinese appeared in South America.

I looked (through exchange of maps) at all the respawned capitals within a turn or 2 of their founding. In all cases, there is a visible Settler outside the city, a garrison flag in the city and the 6 squares immediatley surrounding the city are irrigated if possible (including hills).

That indeed happens with many mid and late game respawns. My Chinese had a Phalanx before having a city.

 

[Major Advantage]

-975 Bribe barb Chariot 61g; Silver Moon founded
-925 Wildcat Valley founded; Legion from hut, Nomads in northern Ontario, HBR from other
-900 Great River founded
(Americans develop Seafaring)
-850 Trade->Republic; time to build some vans, would need about 12 right now...
-800 Chivalry from hut! Usually I get this after Automobile! And Nomads in Alaska
-775 Knights in central america
-750 Seven Brothers founded; 25g & 8Barbs
(Alaskan Nomads killed)
-725 HG built in Cedar Creek; Masonry from hut
-700 Oregon founded; Math from hut
-675 50g from hut
-650 Knight and IW from hut
-600 Marco Polo built, the only new tech to acquire is myst., disappointing. Get it from France + french and celtic maps
-550 Philo from Panama-hut
-525 Republic(revolution)->Astro; Become republic; get Seafaring from Americans; Legion from hut
-475 1st van delivered for 40g; University from hut
-450 Colossus built in Cedar Creek; 50g and another Legion, disbanded; get construction from Americans
-425 Yellowtree founded
-400 Las Vegas founded, 1st SSC-delivery for 54
-350 Barb Archer kills LA's defender; Toronto founded
-300 Astro->Bridge-Build; Nomads in Amazonia
-275 Copernicus built
-250 Delivery for 54
-225 100g from hut; Barb Archer still holds outside LA, bribed for 61
-200 Delivery 88; Barbs in Amazonia
(Lose horse in Amazonia)
-175 Bridge-Build.->Medicine; Erie (Station city for Cedar Creek) founded
-150 Alabama founded; 100g in Alaska, Legion in South America
-125 Legion from hut, disbanded
-100 Houston founded; Medicine from hut
-75 Shakespeare built
-50 Get Polytheism from France
-25 Nav.->Monoth.
+1 Banking from hut (could have gotten that from AI), get Babylonian map, seems like they do not like exploring

Stats at 1 AD:
pop.: 1.66M; Cities: 26; techs: 30; gold: 101; Gov.: Rep; wonders: HG, Colossus, Marco Polo, Copernicus, Shakespeare; TR: 0D/4F
units: 8 settler, 18 defence army, 4 offence army, 3 dip, 11 van, 1 explorer
Goals: Expand some more, start trade with Celts

Seems I am far behind in cities and expansion. Due to inefficient gameplay but partly due to French beating me to Pyramids...


Concerning respawns in Australia: I had the same plan a couple of GOTMs ago when we were playing as Swiss on a world map, Australia was the only empty space of fertile land, but the respawn was in northern Canada!

 

[Inkerman]

My game is more like the Major's than Ali's, and a little weaker.

Mainly this is not trying hard enough to manage the tech tree, with planning what's going to be hidden and whatever grudging assistance can be gained from the AI. In my defence all I can say is I haven't worked out a way to do it easily and it probably would not have made that much difference (certainly compared to Ali's game). Also I was struggling somewhat with the unfamiliar tougher diplomacy of MGE.

1AD Stats
Population: 1.31M; Cities: 14; Techs: 26; Government: Republic.
Gold: 345; Cost: 8; Trade routes: 1 Domestic route.
Wonders: HG, Colossus, LH, MPE. (GL is with the French.)
Units: 6 settler, 6 archer, 10 pike, 4 horse, 1 chariot, 1 knight, 5 dip, 3 vans.
We are Supreme and Honorable.

Celts: 1 city, 8 techs, 196g
Babyls: 7 cities, 17 techs, 278g
French: 9 cities, 18 techs, 400g
Spanish: 4 cities, 9 techs, 292g
Ams: 4 cities, 9 techs, 102g
Greeks: 4 cities, 13 techs, 291g

And how we got there:
975-
950- Golden Age of Philosophy begins in Little Bighorn, Polytheism -> Medicine.
Hut: Chariot (Cedar Creek). Hut: Banking. Hut: Barbs(lots). Hut: Feudalism.
Distant horse lost to barbs.
925- Little Bighorn builds HG. Hut: Mapmaking.
900-
875- Found Killdeer, in the Amazon. Hut: Barbs. Hut: 50g. Chariot lost.
850-
825- Greeks and Babyls swap techs.
800- Little Bighorn now size 8. Hut: Nomads. Babyls acquire Philosophy.
775-
750-

725- Hut: Barbs. 2 units lost to barbs. Babyls start GL.
700- Hut: Chivalry. Hut: Masonry.
675- Hut: Maths.
650-
625- Found Bear Paw, Big Mound.
600- Hut: Barbs. Chariot lost.
575- Hut: 25g. (Last one in NW North America, just a couple now left in North Canada.)
550- Oops, City in Amazon (Killdeer) has no source of shields bar own square, which is supporting its pikemen.
525-
500- Van, Cedar Creek - Little Bighorn, Copper, for 112g.

Stats
Population: 0.9M; Cities: 9; Techs: 24; Government: Republic.
Gold: 728; Cost: 3; Trade routes: 1 Domestic route, just!
Wonders: HG, MPE.
Units: 4 settler, 6 archer, 5 pike, 4 horse, 1 chariot, 1 dip, 5 vans.
We are Supreme and Honorable.


475- Found Wood Lake.
450-
425- Discover Medicine -> Monotheism.
400- Found Dead Buffalo.
375- Hut: Knights (Killdeer - no shields for them.)
350- French nearly done GL. French and Greeks swap. Spanish develop Mysticism.
325- Hut: Knights (Three Forks). Peace with Ams. Found Point of Rocks.
Babyls develop Seafaring. Lyons builds GL. Babyls change to Colossus. Spanish get Polytheism. So French get it from GL.
300-
275-
250- Little Bighorn builds Colossus. Babyls change to LH.
Lots of tech swaps by others.

225- Found Raging Brook.
200-
175- Discover Monotheism -> Theology. Found Running Bear.
150- Celts develop MM.
125- Babyls nearly done LH. French start LH.
100- Little Bighorn builds LH. Babyls, French abandon.
Babyls start Oracle.
75- Spanish develop Iron. French get from GL.
50- Babyls acquire Polytheism - this means it is from a hut, so the Babyls in my game are exploring.
25-

 

[Ali Ardavan]

100- Little Bighorn builds LH. Babyls, French abandon.

Why? Why not Pyramids? Why not letting the shields go towards Michelangelo?

 

[Ali Ardavan]

+0020 Domestic deliveries for 35, 63, 32. T3L3S4
+0040 Winnipeg founded. Sanitation from hut. Gems from Montreal to France for 105.
+0060 -> Invention -> Democracy. King Richard built in Chicago. 50 from hut.
+0080 Denver founded.
+0100 Chicago builds Sewer. Silver to NY for 47. 25g from hut.
+0120 Barbarian caravel attacks Bahamas and kills a van. Maui founded. 5 units placed next to Washington.
+0140 Accepted French offer of 100g for alliance against Greeks. Americans have me remove my troops. Shakespeare built in Chicago. Democracy -> University. Celt -> 250g, Babylonian -> 200g, Spanish -> 100g, American -> 25g. NY bribed for 424g. Got war with Americans, 24g, 2 pikemen, harbor, and barracks. Democracy established. T2L4S4. Domestic offshore deliveries to Bahamas for 66, 98. Domestic delivery for 32. Trireme sinks wounded barbarian caravel.
+0160 Pollution near Chicago. I do not recall having ever seen pre industrial pollution. 8 barbarians from south American hut will surely kill my diplomat the next turn. Kahu founded.
+0200 Americans lose a unit attacking me. University -> Gunpowder. Attack on Washington starts. 2 Catapults and a vet legion kill 3 defenders. The city is taken for 16g and Barracks. American civilization destroyed. Chinese appear. They are in central south America. That is a disappointment. I was hoping for Australia.
+0220 Barbarians land near heavily armed Washington. Leo built. Beads to Cardiff for 200.
+0240 Chicago reaches size 20, builds the first university, and is producing more than a third of the science output. Invention to rivals for maps. Halifax founded. Domestic gold for 60.
+0260 Gunpowder -> Chemistry. Domestic deliveries for 45.
+0280 Barbarian legion dies attacking Washington. Barbarian leader for much needed100g. Toronto founded.
+0300 Chemistry -> Explosives. Second pollution around Chicago. Domestic deliveries for 77, 162. Nomad from Greenland hut. Nomad founds Amazon in the middle of Amazon jungle.
+0320 Richmond founded. Silk to Cordoba for 144.
+0340 Greeks build Lighthouse. Explosives -> Theory of Gravity. Bermuda founded.
+0360 Domestic deliveries for 38.
+0380 Theory of Gravity -> Magnetism. Domestic deliveries for 63, 67, 82. T4L3S3
+0400 Babylonians build Great Wall. Domestic deliveries for 96, 85, 204.
+0420 Magnetism -> Atomic Theory. Newton built. Musketeer from hut. Costa Rica and Arizona founded. Domestic deliveries for 48.
+0440 4 barbarians from Spanish hut will surely kill my van the next turn. Puerto Rico founded.
+0460 Atomic Theory -> Metallurgy. T3L3S4
+0480 50g from hut. 7 barbarian horsemen from hut surround my musketeer on mountain in northern Japan.
+0500 Musketeer survives barbarians and turns vet. Metallurgy -> Conscription. Domestic deliveries for 99, 36. European deliveries for 210, 162.

Status at +500
Population: 15.3M; Cities: 55; Techs: 45; Government: Democracy
Gold: 198; Cost: 87; Trade routes: 51D5F;
Ancient Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Pyramids
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan, King Richard, Shakespeare
Industrial Wonders: Bach, Leo, Newton
Units: 42 settlers (6 None), 25 Musketeers (1 None), 1 Crusader, 1 Knights, 6 Galleon, 2 diplomats, 30 vans, 2 explorers
Footprint: 46 cities from Alaska to central America. 1 in Amazon. 2 on 23 (off the east coast of Canada), 1 each on the following islands: 41, 44, 62, and 63 (Caribbean); 2 on individual islands in Hawaii (both 63).
Apparently the island counter stops at 63; never noticed this before.
Goals: Continuation of offshore expansion in Caribbean and Hawaii. Future expansion in Iceland (2 engineers already there), Galapagos, south America, Canary islands, and Mediterranean islands. Continuation of European trade. Refrigeration.
Celt: 7 cities, 21 techs;
Babylonians: 5 cities, 26 techs; Great Wall, War with Greeks
French: 6 cities, 34 techs; Great Library; War with Greeks, allied with Spanish and I
Spanish: 4 cities, 30 techs; Allied with French
American: Destroyed by me;
Chinese: 1 city, 27 techs;
Greek: 9 cities, 19 techs; Lighthouse; War with Babylonians and French

 

[haleewud]

During this section, I finished off the Americans (in -325) and set sail for Europe.
The first trireme carried 2 settlers. It left Washington in -150, buta trireme from Atlanta was out ahead.
A second shipment (Legion and Hides van from LBH) sailed from Washington in -100. It was only a little behind the first due to the other triremes.
At +1 the lead ship was off the shore of Spain. Since the location was closest to Cordoba (a Spanish city I hadn't located yet), I did not land in Spain but continue east toward France.
With the prospect of small delivery bonuses, I built a lot of food caravans. These were used to build 5 wonders during this segment.
In -275, I was warned that the Babylonians were nearly done with the Pyramids and th Greeks were nearly done with the Lighthouse.
Not wanting to wait for Navigation, I rushed the Lighthouse with 2 vans and 95 shields (380 gold). Interestingly, the Babylonians did not build the Pyramids. I was able to build them a few turns later.
Having most cities on the same continent is bad for trade, but good for tribute. I got 300 from the AIs in -250 and then 750 in +1. With the 1050 I got when MPE was built, that put me at 2100 total.


-475 Babylonians Currency, Philadelphia Food, Slim Buttes Food, Cedar Creek builds Sun Tzu, Raging Brook founded (212,48)
-450 French Republic, 1 million, Hut -> 25
-425 Barb uprising near Dead Buffalo, Kill Horse, Dead Buffalo Silver
-400 Barb Uprising near Atlanta, French Govt overthrown
-375 French establish Monarchy, Stony Lake Silver
-350 LBH Food, 4 vans to LBH, Hut -> 50
-325 Killdeer Food, Construction -> Polytheism (546), LBH builds Colossus, Greeks change to LH, Kill Archer+Phal in Washington (lose 1 Legion) 85, Americans destroyed
-300 Big Mound Food, Cedar Creek Food, Persians are in game, Peace (13 tech, no cities)
-275 Babylonians nearly done with Pyramids, Greeks near done with Lighthouse, Philadelphia Food, 2 vans to Cedar Creek + 95sh, Persians have a city, contact, Give demanded Philo, Peace, Give Literacy + BW exchange maps, Persepolis is at 95,73 (in China) and is size 3 with a visible Settler, 4 irrigated grassland and a garrison flag (warrior displayed)
-250 Persian Govt overthrown, Point of Rocks Food, Wood Lake Food, Boston Food, New York Food, Cedar Creek builds LH (Greeks switch to
Oracle), Babylonians did not build Pyramids, Diplomacy window does not show them building it anymore), Kill Barb Leader (100), Tribute, Babylonians 75, French 50, Spanish 75, Greeks 100
-225 Barbs land near Stony Lake, Persians establish Monarchy, Dead Buffalo Hides, Slim Buttes Gems, Disband Horse in Washington
-200 Barb Uprising near Atlanta, Bear Paw Food, Stony Lake Food, Three Forks Settlers, LBH Hides, Washington Settlers, Hut -> 50
-175 Big Mound Hides, NY Settler, Wounded Knee Beads, Running Bear founded (209,63), Kill Barb Legion(+Leader), 4 vans to Wounded Knee
-150 Wounded Knee builds Pyramids, Kill Barb Horse, Silver Moon founded (220,46)
-125 Barb Uprising near Point of Rocks, Cedar Creek Beads
-100 Philadelphia Food, Boston Food, Kill Barb Leader (100)
-75 Polytheism -> Bridge Building (572), Point of Rocks Settler, Wood Lake Food, Slim Buttes Food, Wildcat Valley founded (198,34), Great River founded (191,69)
-50 Big Mound Food, Killdeer Food
-25 Dead Buffalo Food, Philadelphia Temple, Wounded Knee Diplomat, LBH Temple, 6 vans to LBH
+1 Celts and Spanish declare War, Greeks Masonry, Bear Paw Food, Three Forks Temple, Boston Temple, NY Diplomat, LBH builds Shakespeare (WTLGCD), Tribute - Babs 200, French 150, Spanish 150, Persians 50, Greeks 200

stats at +1:
pop.: 1.63; cities: 22; techs: 21, gov: Monarchy, gold: 1565; trade routes: 0D0F; cost/turn:4
units: 9 Settlers, 2 Warrior, 3 Phalanx, 1 Archer, 5 Legion, 24 Pikemen, 5 Horsemen, 1 Chariot, 3 Elephant, 6 Trireme, 2 Diplomat, 15 Caravan
wonders: Pyramids, HG, Colossus, LH, Sun Tzu, MPE, Shakespeare

Celts: 151g, 8 tech (Wheel), 2 cities, Despotism, War with Spanish
Babylonians: 3g, 15 tech (Banking, Republic), 5 cities, Republic, War with Greeks
French: 16g, 13 tech (Republic), 5 cities, Monarchy, war with Spanish and Greeks
Spanish: 27g, 11 tech, 5 cities, Despotism, war with Celts and French
Americans: destroyed
Persians: 71g, 16 tech, 1 city, Monarchy
Greeks: 45g, 13 tech (Wheel), 8 cities, Despotism, war with Babylonians and French

 

[Inkerman]

Why? Why not Pyramids? Why not letting the shields go towards Michelangelo?

I wanted to start trade as soon as possible. I don't think I had realised that Europe had the same land mass number as we have, but even if I had I would have been tempted. As it was trade wasn't so satisfying as the supply/demand mix was not so good I found (apart from the unusual availability of uranium). I think this means continent size matters more than thought in the calculations, or more than I thought anyway.

Also, I think I had decided to try and build all remaining wonders.

 

[Inkerman]

Apparently the island counter stops at 63; never noticed this before.

Given your experience, creativity and knowledge with the maps in this game I find this comment quite amusing, but it reminds me that we probably all have one or two things we can learn, no matter how much we've played.

When I have the 161 map open in the editor and I press "n" (or select "Map >> Analyze Map") I get a message suggesting the limit, and warning that the AI may be impaired. Incidentally it also says that there is not enough arable land to guarantee suitable starting locations.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I wanted to start trade as soon as possible. I don't think I had realised that Europe had the same land mass number as we have, but even if I had I would have been tempted.

I did not realize that either. Typically in world maps that is not the case. But I was not tempted the least bit despite having a ton of vans on hand due to more cities than usual early in the game. Instead I built Pyramids which I typically skip in a space ship game and built the other wonders earlier than I usually would. Part of the reason for my lack of temptation is that I knew I could island hop to Europe if I had to. As luck would have it, I got Navigation quite early from a hut in -275.

As it was trade wasn't so satisfying as the supply/demand mix was not so good I found (apart from the unusual availability of uranium). I think this means continent size matters more than thought in the calculations, or more than I thought anyway.

I am not far enough yet to see Uranium. I just discovered Railroad last night. For me trade with Europe is fine but not great. I have so far limited myself to Celts, French, and Spanish and forgone Greeks and Babylonians due to distance. I need a ship chain. Also my domestic offshore trade is as profitable as European trade if not more so.

Given your experience, creativity and knowledge with the maps in this game I find this comment quite amusing, but it reminds me that we probably all have one or two things we can learn, no matter how much we've played.

When I have the 161 map open in the editor and I press "n" (or select "Map >> Analyze Map") I get a message suggesting the limit, and warning that the AI may be impaired. Incidentally it also says that there is not enough arable land to guarantee suitable starting locations.

Live and learn I suppose. I have seen that comment from "Analyze Map" before but somehow I did not think that the counter would stop though in retrospect it makes good sense. As for lack of enough arable land, that is very much true. In fact the original map is worse. I improved all player starting locations for this GOTM.

 

[haleewud]

A few more words about respawns.

When I last posted on this subject, the Japanese had respawned, but I didn't know where yet. As it turns out, they we due south of the vikings (Vikings at (27,107) and Japanese at (27,137)). I built a railroad from Babylon to the Nile and then down the Nile to the Vikings. I eliminated the Vikings (third blue elimination) and the Vikings respawned in Central Asia. I continued the railroad to the Egyptian lands and then built the railroad south from Singa (the original Trondheim, I renamed it to avoid confusion). The last 5 or 6 squares had to be hacked out of the jungle one turn at a time. I finally reached Kyoto in 1510 AD.

By this time, I had eliminated all but Cardiff from the Celts (and had three vet cannons, a rifleman, a spy, 2 Engineers and a bribed phalanx in a fort next to Cardiff). The Greeks and Persians only had 1 city left and no capital. Since I was at war with the Celts, I started with them. I was hopeful that being in 1510AD, I might not get any respawns. I was sorely disappointed. The cannons made short work of the phalanx and warrior in Cardiff. With the Celts eliminated, I checked, the Russians were in the game. I then subverted the last Persian city. The Chinese entered the game in their place. Then, I subverted the last Greek city. The English replaced them. With these 3 respawns, I saw no reason to overthrow my democracy to take out the Japanese or Egyptians.

It took 2 turns for the English to build London, even though the Greeks were the third civ eliminated. London (size 7) was further south in Africa from the Japanese (at 20,162). I had a spy fairly close to London, so he moved closer.

On the next turn, the Chinese built Beijing. I contacted them and got their map. There it was, Beijing, size 8, in the Eastern portion of Australia.

On that same turn, my spy arrived near London. To my surprise, I could see a Russian Settler (stacked with another unit) only 3 squares west of London. During the end of the turn processing, that settler founded Moscow. I don't know if it was because I could see the square, but Moscow was only size 1. None of the previously visible squares were irrigated, but some of the squares that hadn't been visible were.

I actually think visibility has everything to do with it. I just reloaded my save game from the turn before London was founded. I contacted the English (who were Icy) gave them 2 techs and signed a peace treaty and obtained their map. They were cordial when we exchanged maps. After the year-end processing was complete, I contacted them again. This time they were hostile. I had to give them a number of techs before they went from hostile to icy to neutral (twice) to enthusiastic and would exchange maps. London was only size 1 and there were no irrigated squares.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

... The English replaced them...
It took 2 turns for the English to build London, even though the Greeks were the third civ eliminated. London (size 7) was further south in Africa from the Japanese (at 20,162). I had a spy fairly close to London, so he moved closer...

On that same turn, my spy arrived near London. To my surprise, I could see a Russian Settler (stacked with another unit) only 3 squares west of London. During the end of the turn processing, that settler founded Moscow. I don't know if it was because I could see the square, but Moscow was only size 1. None of the previously visible squares were irrigated, but some of the squares that hadn't been visible were.

I actually think visibility has everything to do with it. I just reloaded my save game from the turn before London was founded. I contacted the English (who were Icy) gave them 2 techs and signed a peace treaty and obtained their map. They were cordial when we exchanged maps. After the year-end processing was complete, I contacted them again. This time they were hostile. I had to give them a number of techs before they went from hostile to icy to neutral (twice) to enthusiastic and would exchange maps. London was only size 1 and there were no irrigated squares.

Are you are saying that how big a respawn city is has to do with whether it is visible or not? I suppose by visible you mean the settler who founds it being visible in the turn before, right? This is quite interesting. Please elaborate. How do you know it is not just random?

 

[haleewud]

According to my game log, the Egyptians founded Thebes between +340 and +360. When I contacted them in +360, Thebes was size 5 with all plains around it irrigated. So I reloaded my save from the end of +340. I contacted them and got their map. I could see the settler (in a stack) and I could see a phalanx a couple spaces away (next to a hut). When I hit end-of-turn, the phalanx apparently popped the hut (Egyptians acquire Feudalism). I saw a settler move off the spot. But when I contacted them again (and gave them 5 or 6 techs, stupid AI hostility), There was Thebes, size 1, no irrigation, with a settler and the phalanx also visible.

I did the same thing with the Japanese respawn (between +1240 and +1260), loaded the save file from the turn before Kyoto was built and got their map. Kyoto was founded at size 1 with no irrigation. In the original play (where I didn't contact them until Kyoto was built), Kyoto was size 7 with six irrigated squares (including 2 irrigated mountains).

I also did the same thing with the second respawn of the Vikings (between +1260 and +1280). In the original game Trondheim was size 7 with 3 irrigated squares (even though Mountains are irrigatable, the game does not irrigate them). In the reload, with the contact before the founding, it was only size 1.

I just completed one more experiment. In my original game the Chinese respawned in Australia after the Persians were eliminated in +1510. Beijing wasn't built until +1540. It looks as though it was 2 squares away from the respawn point. So 3 of the squares directly adjacent to the location of Beijing would not have been visible at the end of +1510 (directly after the respawn). So, I loaded +1510 and contacted the Chinese and got their map. I then changed my tax rates to make sure I wouldn't run out of money and just ran through my turns of +1520 and +1530 without actually doing anything. At the end of +1530, there was no Beijing, but in +1540 it was there. Beijing itself was in a visible square from the first contact. Beijing was size 1. But 3 of the square next to Beijing had not been visible. 2 of them were irrigated, the third was a forest.

 

[Major Advantage]

As it was trade wasn't so satisfying as the supply/demand mix was not so good I found (apart from the unusual availability of uranium). I think this means continent size matters more than thought in the calculations, or more than I thought anyway.

Same here. I just launched my spaceship and this game brought a new and unexpected challenge concerning trade: Unblocking uranium demand!

My log until 500 AD:

20 Lima founded from Nomads, 1st ship built, to cross the pacific with 2 settlers and 1 explorer
40 Delivery 141; Saskatoon founded
60 Mono->Physics; Domestic delivery for 44; Greeks are researching wheel, it's about time
80 Michelangelo built; 50g from hut
100 Montreal founded; Barbs in Alaska
120 Physics->Chemistry; 50g & Wheel from huts
140 Barbs in Baja California
180 Barb leader 100g
200 Chem->Engineering
220 Eight Sisters founded; 3 vans sail east towards Celts
240 Corpus Christi founded
260 50g & Barbs from huts
(Lose Legion in northern Canada)
280 Engin.->Sanitation; Nomads in South America
300 Barbs in South-Am., Nomads in Japan
(Lose Legion)
340 San.->Gravity; Tokyo founded, 50g from hut
360 Delivery 30g; get economics from France
380 Delivery 288 (Gold Cedar Creek>Cardiff); 100g, Crusader, Theology from huts
400 Sao Paulo founded; Legion from hut in East asia
420 Gravity->Invention; Magellan built; Deliveries 180, 98; Inv. & 50g from huts
440 Research Steam Engine; Adv. Tribe (North Korea)
460 Steam->Atomic Th.; Legion & 50g from huts
480 Leonardo built; Another Legion in Asia
500 Nomads in Asia & South America

Stats at 500 AD:
pop.: 3.96M; Cities: 35; techs: 41; gold: 766; Gov.: Rep; wonders: HG, Colossus, Marco Polo, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Marco Polo, Magellan, Leonardo; TR: 1D/8F
units: 24 settler, 23 defence army, 2 offence army, 4 dip, 19 van, 3 explorer, 4 boats
Goals: Trade through the techs; Bach, Democracy; settle Japan and China

 

[haleewud]

I also was surprised (although not really) at the supply/demand mix. The thing I found most interesting is there was almost a complete lack of demand for Oil. Normally about half the cities want Oil and Uranium and then some other thing. I was hard pressed to find more than a couple cities that wanted oil.

I did not have any problem with reseting Uranium Supply and Demand. In my game, Little Bighorn was a supplier of Uranium. They were also producing 50 or 51 shields per turn, so they could produce a Uranium just about every turn. It was pretty easy to deliver the Uranium to Babylon for max delivery. Then Babylon was one of the few that demanded Oil, so an Oil delivery would reset the demand for Uranium. Then I just had to find something to deliver to LBH to reset the supply. One of the few times I didn't get it to work was when I messed up my ship chain and couldn't get the Uranium to Babylon.

I was originally going for conquest. But with the size of the map and the respawns, It has been hard to track down everyone. For quite a while I was in Communism, running celebrations to help delivery bonuses, but since there was no growth from the celebrations, the cities were small and the payout were also small. I finally got tired of that so I switched to Democracy for growth. Now, I still have all 6 opponents, although I don't currently know where the Aztecs (third yellow respawn) are. It has been several turns since I eliminated the Egyptians and they Aztecs still haven't built a city. I am just starting Future Tech, so I could build a spaceship at any time (and probably will build it soon). Maybe just one more round of attacks, I should be able to land troops in Australia next turn.

I think if I had concentrated on Democracy, Growth and Trade from the outset (or at least after Magnetism), I probably could have built the space ship much earlier. I definitely could not have switched to Republic or Democracy before Magnetism. In my game Washington is still supporting 7 ships. There is no way I could have overcome the unhappiness caused by 6 or more Triremes or Caravels being outside of the ship (as part of the ship chain from Washington to Seven Brothers (probably Bordeaux on our world)).

 

[catalin72]

1958 AD
Chinese eliminated,pathetic,still with chariots..Me and the Babylonian city Kish (34,48) size 18 for trade,howitzers near to finish the game.Revolution few turns ago,fundamentalism,taxes 70/10/20,income 6786,costs 1391.148 cities,174 engineers.

 

[haleewud]

Here is one more thing about respawns and also a point about the illogic of the AI.

In 1590, the Aztecs respawnsed. I did not contact them. But in 1600, I built the Apollo Program, revealing the entire Map.

The Aztecs did not build Tenochtitlan until the end process between 1610 and 1620. I got their map and found the city in New Zealand at (136,206). It was only size 1.

Now for the illogic. The original respawn point for the Aztecs was (137,209). I verified this by going back to the save game. The Aztecs had at least 2 settlers. 137,209 is non-shielded grass, has access to a Whale, is next to a hut (on grass) and there was also a shielded grass to the north and northwest.

So I see three choices.
1) Build at the respawn point, work the whale and pop the hut with the second settler.
2) Pop the hut immediately (maybe get something good), build on the hut on the next turn. This would still allow the use of the whale and would add access to Coal. It would have lost access to the shielded grass.
3) move to the shielded grass and build there 2 turns later, losing access to the whale and wasting the shield of the grass.

So, of course, the AI picked choice 3.

Also, and this would have been interesting to see, if the Aztecs had built immediately on the respawn point, they would have built it during their turn of 1600. This would have been before Apollo was completed. Maybe Tenochtitlan would have been size 7 or 8.

 

[Inkerman]

Babyls develop Masonry, and change to Pyramids. French start Pyramids. Greeks develop Polytheism.

20-
40- Discover Theology -> Astronomy.
60-
80- Hut:25g. Greeks acquire Masonry.
100- Babyls nearly done Pyramids...
120- ...so we use vans. Found Silver Moon.
140- Wood Lake builds Pyramids. Babyls and French change to GW.
160- Ams develop Banking. French get from GL.
180-
200- French develop Monotheism.
220-
240- Hut: Nomads (in Caribbean.)
Celts develop Currency. Babyls develop Monotheism. Spanish develop Wheel.
260- French capture Spanish Toledo, taking HBR.
280- Wood Lake builds Michaelangelo Chapel. Several celebrations, let's grow a bit. Hut(South America): Astronomy.
Babyls nearly done GW.
Start on Construction.
300- Let GW go.

Give Literacy, Philosophy, Masonry to Americans and swap maps. They have 4 good cities now.

Babylon builds GW. French abandon.
320- Hut: Nomads.
340- Little Bighorn builds Copernicus Observatory. Hut: Construction.
Found Wildcat Valley.
French capture Greek Pharsalos. Start on University.
360- Van, Big Mound - Three Forks, Silver, for 90g.
Van, Running Bear - Little Bighorn, Silk, for 180g.
Greeks develop Monarchy.
They ask alliance vs Babylonians, offering 150g - we accept.
380- We talk to Greeks, they want Maths, we demur, they cancel alliance.
400- Discover University -> ToG. Found Great River. Hut: Seafaring.

Babyls acquire Writing. Ams develop Construction.
420- Little Bighorn builds University. (It is producing half our science.)
Van, Running Bar - Three Forks, Copper, for 64g.
440- Babyls and Greeks swap techs.
460- Little Bighorn builds Aqueduct. Found Seven Brothers (at site of present New Orleans.) Save game to consult map as a ship crosses mid-Atlantic.
480- Discover ToG -> Chemistry. Hut(Africa): Economics.
Van, Wood Lake - Washington (Am), Hides, for 100g.
Hut(S.America): Bridges.
500- Start explorers to check North Canada. Dips are doing same in S America. Vans approach Spain.

Stats
Population: 3.06M; Cities: 18; Techs: 34; Government: Republic.
Gold: 896; Cost: 15; Trade routes: 4 Domestic, 1 Foreign route.
Wonders: Pyramids, HG, Colossus, LH, (GL is with the French, GW with Babyls.)
MPE, Mike's, Copernicus.
Units: 11 settler, 6 archer, 11 pike, 5 horse, 1 chariot, 1 knight, 2 trireme, 7 dip, 14 vans, 1 exp.
We are Supreme and Honorable.

Celts, 3 cities, 9 techs, 261g
Babyls, 10 cities, 21 techs, 523g
French, 12 cities, 23 techs, 485g
Spanish, 4 cities, 10 techs, 376g
Ams, 4 cities, 15 techs, 184g
Greeks, 5 cities, 17 techs, 253g

 

[catalin72]

You are deliberately planning to end on 2019? Why? To Maximize your score?

The limit is 255 and it applies to all cities in the game not just yours. The limit is independent of the map size.

If you hit the wrong key, or as you called it if your mouse jumps, you are allowed to go back to the last save as long as you faithfully recreate everything up to that point. In late game this is neither feasible nor worthwhile. Nevertheless, it is not considered cheating to undo something you did not intend to do in the first place.


Good point. I finally eliminated Americans last night. I started a war at the point of switching to Democracy and oddly enough they did not ask for cease fire or peace. Chinese appeared in South America.

That indeed happens with many mid and late game respawns. My Chinese had a Phalanx before having a city.

Today I saw this post,sorry.
1.Yes,to maximize the score in 2019.But I don't understand why in an old map huge just 144 cities can build,I see now 255 max.
2.This load for mouse jump,etc...hmmm,who decides if is a 'fair' load or not ?
Troop lost,OK,bad luck..

 

[Inkerman]

2.This load for mouse jump,etc...hmmm,who decides if is a 'fair' load or not ?

Welcome Catalin,

We are pleased to see you here.

Regarding your question it must be you yourself who decides what is fair.

As Ali said it is fair to correct for accidents.

We ask that you do not re-load after bad luck or a bad choice (AI surprise, combat result, diplomacy, huts, pirates/revolts.) It would be a much less interesting game without these chance things that you must correct through future play.

In the recent World War I scenario game this made a big difference to me because I was very cautious about attacking cities head-on, and other players were rewarded for being braver than me.

Also we ask you do not use "cheat" until after the game is finished. When you have finished it is OK, and it often helps some discussion in the spoiler thread.

Do you make many map exchanges? Normally, but less so in this particular game, you will see a lot of gifting technologies to improve diplomatic relations, so that map exchanges can happen.

People play because they like the game, and they choose different objectives such as:
- winning in the fewest number of turns
- getting the largest score
- getting the largest score by the GotM formula (which combines score and speed)
- building only one city

In this game, also, we have seen players (at least me and you) do things because they like, even though the action is perhaps not best for one of the objectives. If the spoiler is going well this attracts (polite) comments.

regards, Inkerman

 

[catalin72]

Thanks.Now I see and understand,the question 'why in 2019 finished the game,to maximize the score ?' is a 'warning' ,GOTM score is different, sqr N,50,M-T/T etc,a quick victory is the best.