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[PTW] GOTM 164 Ottomans Monarch Space Race - Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Game of the Month' started by Più Freddo, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    1,965
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    This is the thread where you tell us how you did - win, lose or retire.

    Only read or post in this thread when your game is ended and successfully submitted.
     
  2. greatbeyond

    greatbeyond King

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Messages:
    986
    Off to space in 1836AD.

    I was hoping to use the Persians and Babylonians to boost science but it was not to be. The Babylonians seemed a little slow to expand and initially I wasn't to worried about competing for space to settle cities. Then both they and the Persians seemed to have a couple of settlers on the move and it was time to slow them down. I figured the Persians were less of a priority as the land nearest them was not very desirable, so I declared on the Babylonians to pick off workers and settlers. This was going pretty well when I noticed the Persians sending a couple of archers toward my cities. Sure enough they declare war and now I have 2 fronts going at the same time. I eventually get the Babylonians contained to just their peninsula and the Persians ask for peace.

    I wan to grab as much land as possible and avoid going to war with Persia. My plan is to eventually confine both of them to just a few cities and keep them alive until the modern era. During the era ibt I would gift them enough techs to hopefully be able to trade for the free techs they got. That was the plan, instead the Persians attack again and it slows progress down. Peace is given after I take a couple of cities and it takes time to build back up my armies.

    The AI pace seems a little slow and so once I get cavalry I start driving the Persians back to their starting point. I don't see much reason to keep either them or the Babylonians around as they haven't been any help at all. They are eliminated and I fill my continent as rapidly as possible.

    I build up enough military to keep the other AIs at bay and actually embark an invasion force just in case. They spend many turns sitting unused as I try to keep my focus on the race to space. The AIs fall almost an era behind in research and I hope use the ToEv to get two first tier modern age techs. But the Chinese suddenly learn Scientific Method and I switch a build to complete the TofEv. Of course I have forgotten temporarily about leader rushing and the danger it posed. China who must have had a GL in waiting, won in many of the wars fought on the other continent, uses it to complete the TofEv. The only wonder that the AIs were able to complete from the end of the medieval age on. It really doesn't cost me that much as I have been researching at the 4 to 5 turns per tech pace and have a lot of excess cash, but it still hurts.

    The last era is really just a waiting game with no serious military threat from anyone. I pick up all the wonders I can and launch in 1836AD. I had hoped to be in the 1400s and I am sure that someone will be around that date if not sooner.

    Thanks for the game. Just curious, did you make any adjustments to the game and if so what were your goals? I had expected to see mostly scientific civs and expected a closer game. I did manage to capture the GL early on from the Persians possibly slowing down the AI tech trade rate.
     
  3. tR1cKy

    tR1cKy taking over the world

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Perusia, Roman Empire
    The start location didn't look promising to me, so i decided to try my luck and venture southward. After 2 movements i saw quite a better spot, but to reach it i had to travel a little bit more. I finally settled Istanbul after 5 turns of wandering, SW-Sx4 of the original location. Totally worth it, IMO, because i could set up a 4-turner from the very beginning and i had plenty of river tiles.

    The initial build order was warrior -> granary (barracks prebuild) -> settler -> warrior -> warrior -> settlers all the way. Cities were placed in a mixed ring: some at RCP3, some at RCP4, not the ideal choice in terms of minimizing waste, but the resulting locations were better for long-term growth: all the "core" cities except for one wouldn't need an aqueduct to get past size 6.

    The first hut i popped gave me a much appreciated 2nd worker. Other picks, later on, were another worker and Literature - much useful because i could build cheap libraries without wasting turns into researching the necessary tech. The homeland AS were met, trades were made and i went on with the canonical research path: Writing, then CoL and Philosophy, then Republic, leaving to the AS the task of discovering Map Making.

    Thanks to the rich homeland and the presence of libraries i could reach Republic in 1175 BC and, with 3 turns of Anarchy, i decided not to reroll. I also managed to research Math before hitting the QSC mark.

    In 1000 BC, my stats were:

    13 towns, 38 pop units;
    1 settler, 8 workers, 10 warriors, 4 swords, 3 boats;
    1 granary, 1 barracks, 2 libraries
    132 quids, +3 gpt;
    2 AS known;
    missing Construction, Currency, Poly, Monarchy;

    This is a shot of my empire by that time:

    gotm164-1000bc.jpg

    A quite unusual thing for me was to build the Pyramids from scratch in a core city. The idea was to trigger the Golden Age by either capturing or leader-rushing the Great Library later. However, this plan never went to fruition.

    After Math, i went for Construction and Currency. With Babylon researching Polytheism, i got to the Middle Ages in 690 BC and swept all the 1st-tier techs thanks to lucky scientific picks: Monotheism from me, Feudalism from Babylon and Engineering from Persia. From there on, i would be going on the upper branch up to Navigation, while the AS would (hopefully) provide Monarchy, Chivalry and Invention.

    A few turns later, two survivors of my suicide fleets made it across the ocean and got knowledge of Carthage, Mongolia, Arabia and France. One of these two went north and reached China, but then it was sunk by barbs; the other one went south, beat a buttload of barbarian galleys and managed to circumnavigate the whole far landmass and finally found safety in what was by then Ottoman China.

    I sent my first campaign against Babylon. They went down quickly and by 190 BC they were reduced to OCC (not taking them down completely because of the freebies). In the meantime, Persia had built the Great Library. According to my original plan, that was excellent news, but i was already doing well in research; by that time, i was half-way through Astronomy. So i decided that pursuing a Golden Age by capturing the GLib and rushing some other wonder wasn't worth it anymore: it was better to keep Persia untouched as science partner and pursue the Golden Age by completing Newton's, in order to have an extra boost at the beginning of the Industrial Ages.

    So, the new plan was: keep Persia and France alive, take over everything else (minus OCC Babylon, for freebies), form a RCP 5 around the Carthaginian city of Utica and move the capital there as soon as a leader was available.

    By 50 AD Navigation was known and i launched immediately an invasion of China. I choose them because they were horribly backwards (still in the AA!) and they shouldn't have been much of an issue. By 320 AD China was gone, but the date is misleading: right before the invasion started, China had begun settling the northwestern tip of the mainland, so i waited for these cities to grow before capturing. In the meantime, i boosted my fleet and prepared for the next target: Carthage.

    China was supposed to be my elite-fishing target, but an almost-failed attack forced my to strike with an elite unit and, unexpectingly, a leader popped out! Unable to move the capital (China wasn't worth it) i shipped the leader home and used it for Magellan's, de-facto abandoning Copernicus in the hands of Persia.

    Along the invasion, a much smaller force was sent toward France, but their purpose was not to gnaw on French territory:

    gotm164-tpf.jpg

    I founded a town in an open spot, rushed a harbor in it, then donated the town to the French. This is a trick i've used a few times in order to have trans-oceanic trade with an AS too stupid to understand the obvious benefit of building a harbor. Ironically, the nearby city of Dijon built a harbor only a handful of turns later :mad:

    On the research front, two turns before obtaining Navigation i had traded Chivalry and Invention from Persia. It was clearly too late to wait for Gunpowder as well, so i gifted Persia and France to parity, researched Gunpowder myself at the fastest pace possible and donated it as well. The idea was to force the AS into researching Banking, and it worked: i could buy the tech the same turn i completed Theory of Gravity, in 360 AD. At that point, the palace prebuild was switched to Newton's and 2 turns later the wonder was complete; my Golden Age could finally begin.

    I hit the Industrial ages in 440 AD and once again i lucked out the freebies: Nationalism to me, Steam from Persia and Medicine from Babylon. France and Persia were sold/gifted to parity, then i went for Electricity at full steam (gifted to all), then Scientific Method, then the upper branch to give the AS time for Replaceable Parts. In the meantime, Persia was so kind to provide Economics and Military Tradition, so i could build Smith's and, finally, steamroll some AS with sipahis.

    Back to the war front, i moved against Carthage, then Arabia, then Mongolia. All of them had stragglers somewhere so it went on a little bit more than expected. Carthage fell first and the remaining 2 shortly after. The leader for moving the capital emerged and by around 500 AD (i wasn't taking detailed notes at that point) i had a fully fledged second core between former Carthage and Arabia. By 720 AD my campaigns were over, but my military still had to earn its pay: France sneak-attacked me twice and so did Persia, but at that time i was fully prepared and their vile attempt had the only effect of providing a training ground for my troops, with a pair of leaders for good measure.

    Evolution was timed with the completition of Corporation and i could fish Atomic Theory and Electronics. Next turn, a spare leader was used to rush Hoover Dam in the homeland.

    Persia did research Replaceable Parts at a time that let me hope that i could fish from them a 2nd compulsory tech, but it wasn't to be. They went for Communism at an annoying slow pace and i had to research all the rest by myself.

    I entered the Modern Ages in 980 AD. Once again, good picks: Ecology for me, Fission from Persia and Rocketry from Babylon. I went for Computers, then Miniaturization, then the Robotics branch. The idea was to give time to Persia to research Space Flight and Synthetic Fibers, but it worked only half-way because Jerksees went for Amphibious War first, so only Space Flight was traded. I had a spare leader to rush Apollo so i could start building and prebuilding spaceship part immediately.

    No problems timing the last prebuilds. Synthetic Fibers learned and spaceship launched in 1310 AD. The Firaxis score was 6k plus something, the Jason score was just below the 11k mark. Quite an enjoyable game, and my last one for a while :)

    Here are some stats:

    Tech progression:

    4000bc: Bronze Working, Masonry (prerequisites);
    3100bc: Pottery (research);
    3050bc: Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial (trade, Babylon);
    2430bc: Alphabet (research); Mysticism (trade, Babylon);
    2270bc: Iron Working (trade, Persia);
    1990bc: Writing (research);
    1950bc: Wheel (trade, Persia);
    1675bc: Code of Laws (research);
    1550bc: Philosophy (research);
    1325bc: Horse Riding (trade, Persia); Literature (hut);
    1250bc: Map Making (trade, Persia);
    1175bc: Republic (research);
    1025bc: Mathematics (research);
    _825bc: Construction (research);
    _690bc: Currency (research); Polytheism (trade, Babylon);

    _690bc: Monotheism (scientific bonus); Feudalism (trade, Babylon); Engineering (trade, Persia);
    _430bc: Theology (research);
    _370bc: Monarchy (trade, Persia);
    _270bc: Education (research);
    _110bc: Astronomy (research);
    __10ad: Chivalry, Invention (trade, Persia);
    __50ad: Navigation (research);
    _150ad: Gunpowder (research);
    _250ad: Chemistry (research);
    _310ad: Physics (research);
    _360ad: Theory of Gravity (research); Banking (trade, Persia);
    _400ad: Magnetism (research);
    _440ad: Metallurgy (research); Economics (trade, Persia);

    _440ad: Nationalism (scientific bonus); Steam Power (trade, Persia); Medicine (trade, Babylon);
    _500ad: Electricity (research);
    _540ad: Scientific Method (research); Military Tradition, Music Theory (trade, Persia);
    _590ad: Industrialization (research);
    _650ad: Corporation (research); Atomic Theory, Electronics (ToE);
    _690ad: Replaceable Parts (trade, Persia);
    _700ad: Steel (research);
    _750ad: Refining (research);
    _800ad: Combustion (research);
    _840ad: Mass Production (research);
    _880ad: Motorized Transportation (research); Communism (trade, Persia);
    _940ad: Radio (research);
    _980ad: Flight (research);

    _980ad: Ecology (scientific bonus); Fission (trade, Persia); Rocketry (trade, Babylon);
    1040ad: Computers (research); Amphibious War (trade, Persia);
    1100ad: Miniaturization (research);
    1120ad: Sanitation (trade, France);
    1150ad: Nuclear Power (research);
    1190ad: Laser (research);
    1230ad: Space Flight (trade, Persia);
    1240ad: Robotics (research);
    1270ad: Superconductor (research);
    1290ad: Satellites (research);
    1310ad: Synthetic Fibers (research); launch;


    Cities up to QSC:

    3750bc: Istanbul
    2590bc: Edrine
    2270bc: Bursa (wines)
    2110bc: Iznik
    1950bc: Uskudar

    1750bc: Izmit
    1675bc: Aydin
    1575bc: Antalya
    1450bc: Konya (spices)
    1325bc: Adana

    1250bc: Sinop
    1125bc: Kafa
    1025bc: Ankara


    Meetings:

    3100bc: Babylon
    2430bc: Persia
    _630bc: Carthage, France, Arabia, Mongolia
    _470bc: China


    Kills:

    _190bc: Babylon is OCC
    _320ad: China
    _650ad: Carthage
    _670ad: Arabia
    _720ad: Mongolia


    Notable events:

    3000bc: granary complete;
    2900bc: capital is 5 fpt;
    2670bc: 1st settler out;
    2270bc: 4-turner is operational;
    1125bc: established Republic;
    _570bc: Pyramids
    _210bc: Forbidden Palace
    _370ad: Newton's (golden age begins)
     
  4. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    Heidelberg
    Pretty good game, tR1cKy! I launched in 1330 AD, so 4 turns later. That's probably due to one more tech you were able to trade from the AI? Perhaps Banking?! I didn't manage to get anything out of the AI after Invention... Except for the freebies, of course, which were also "perfect" as in your case. Strange coincidence, that with only 3 scientifics in the game, we both get all 8 non-optional techs at the three era transitions! (You got 9 different ones, I got Steam Power twice and no Nationalism, but as Nationalism is optional, that didn't matter.)

    And interesting that we got very similar results with completely different approaches: I settled in place and then later disbanded the capital, after I had found and prepared a better place (around 300 BC iirc). The FP was then hand-built in a second ring city, and that was good enough for 4-turn research.

    Noteworthy facts in my game:
    • I never built a single Sipahi (in fact, the AI only came up with Militarism, when I was already in the Modern Age...) GA was started with Newton like in your game.
    • China had just left the Ancient Age and finished its first medieval tech, when I launched the spaceship... Completely incompetent, but it has to be admitted, that they had a very bad starting island.
    • The other continent never met Persia and Babylon! I eliminated both of them, after I had pocketed their two Modern Age freebies, and before any ship reached our shores from the other continent.
     
  5. Nata

    Nata Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Boston, USA
    Played a long time ago and forgot the details, but it was a very organized game by my standards.
    Launched in 1475 AD.

    Settled in place, did RCP3 and RCP7, built granaries in the capital and in the first couple of cities.
    Went for Literature after Writing which came in handy as Babs and Persia took forever to get MM, and I had useful things to build meanwhile.
    Went to war with Babs late BC/ early AD, which went lucky as I captured Babylon the turn after it built Hanging Gardens and got a GL in the process. Build FP in Ellipi I think so that it had neat RCP4 around it. War ended after I built a city on a small Southern Island and pushed Babs there. I might have also broken peace in the middle to trade for MA techs.

    Next was Persia war, which happened mid to late MA. I shipped my remaining Elite Swords and new MIs to attacks Persia from the North, but they had waves upon waves of Immortals coming from the South, so I sued for peace after taking 2-3 of their border towns and turned to building more MIs.
    But then two things happened: Persia researched Chivalry, and I researched Theory of Gravity. So I traded for Chivalry, switched my prebuild to Newtons and then it was waves upon waves of my GA knights pushing Persia off the continent and into oblivion.
    I managed to do almost all of before IA, sued for peace, traded, got RailRoads and Medicine, then took time to establish a town for them on big island and finished the job.

    GA helped to go through early IA quickly, plus I had FP and railroads. It also helped me to break my habit of using Theory of Evolution for Atomic Theory/Electronics and waiting until the dawn of Modern Age instead.
    Well, that was neat! I had ROP with Babs to put Tanks on their small island, and had Tanks sitting on Persia border. After trading for Modern Age techs (we all got 3 different techs) and getting two for free (I chose Miniaturization as one of them naturally, with prebuild for Internet sitting close) I was in good shape to finish fast. Babs and Persia were destroyed same turn. I didn't trade techs with other Civs since they entered IA as didn't want them to learn flight and become a nuisance before I go to space.

    So it was a nice game, with 4-5 turns through Modern Age and IA. MA took time to get going, plus it took me a while to find other Civs, I was unlucky with Galleys. And then it took me a while to get to China because I forgot that there were 7 Civs and thought I met all of them. :) Not that China was much use anyway.
     
  6. Più Freddo

    Più Freddo From space, earth is blue

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    You may have noticed that the two Scientific tribes were on your continent. For the rest, see Tricky's and Lanzelot's games above. The idea was to move the capital to the very rich part just south of the starting location. A place for The Colossus with a Fish and two Whales was provided as well.
     
  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    BTW: what is the reason to donate that town to the AI? As long as it is connected to their road network, you can trade with them no matter whether it is your or their town!
    I assume you want to avoid any nasty surprises with them sneak-attacking your lone town on their continent, which would drag you into an unwanted war and disrupt the trade route to the other continent?

    But gifting the town to them also has its drawbacks: you can never be sure, whether the AI does not get that harbor disbanded, when they go into negative income... :D That also can unexpectedly disrupt the trade route, and if you have been shipping them resources at that point, your trade rep suffers a severe hit...
     
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