GOTM 168 Spoiler


Sep 26, 2004
I have spent many hours studying EC strategy on large maps, but not so much on small ones like this. I don't know what to do on them. I usually start out with the usual fast growth for 50 turns or so, build MPE, then a seemingly rapid conquest with ellies. But very very often someone like grigor finds a much faster bolder method using horsemen, maybe with no WoWs, or maybe with massive hut popping. So, while I am happy with my game, especially with my hut luck, I do not expect this effort to win Green.

4000- Hut = 50g.
3950- Madrid (1). Will do Size 1 trick. Taxes at 60%.
3550- Settler.
3450- Alph-->CB. Hut#2 = AT = Seville(2). This is my first really good hut luck in quite a while.
3400- Toledo (3).
3150- CB-->BW, planning eventually on Trade and vans and 1-2 WoWs. Maybe already a mistake ? With this, we had no attacking units for 1000+ years and are almost locked-in to the MPE routiine.
3100- Hut= nomads. More good luck.
3000- Corinth(4).
2950- BW-->CL.
2900- Hut=Mys. Uh-Oh. This will derail Monarchy for approx 4-8 turns. Now I regret popping that hut.
2850- Val (5)
2700- Hut=nomads [not bad, but I was actually hoping for tech this time]
2650- CL-->MapM [no monarchy]. I think we set Sci=60% about this time.
2600- Sal(6) with 2 more cities in 3 turns.
2350- MM-->Mon. 1st riots. Hut=horseman.
2150- Hut = barb horse, which defeats our warrior.
2100- Sar(9).
2050- Monarchy (-->Cur). Taxes to 70%.

2000- Stats 10C, pop160k, Mon, 2S, 2w, 1h, Mfg28, 18g, 7adv, 3roads. Just met the nice Mongols and we are at war. At some point, we learn that the Mongols have taken nearby Berlin and that Bokhara lies to the NW. Goals = MPE in approx 1400bc, w 3 triremes, 6S, 14C. Hoping for good science [such as Poly] from MPE.

to 1800- Minor skirmishes with Mongols. 11C. 1st "flotilla" leaves, but it is really just a Settler moving up the eastern coast. Curr-->Wri [Ugh. no Trade ... I hadn't bothered to study the tech tree wrt the 2/3's rule. We set Sci=70%, but MPE will be delayed].

1550- Contact Germans [Hamburg], get map. They have 2C, having lost Berlin.

1500- Stats c14, pop320, Mfg47, mon, 1S, 4w, 1h, 3tri, 1d, 9adv, 7rds, 1bx. Goals: Build MPE approx 1200bc [otherwise, we may need to locate the Babs and English manually .. and learn a military tech, which we cannot seem to get from the Mongs or Germans or huts].

1350- Trade-->hbr. We were semi-ready to produce 4 vans for MPE, but ran into cash-flow problems and ill-timed riots.
1250- Hut=hbr.
1100- Contact English [IIRC this was a flotilla with 1S+1w]. Get map. They have 3C.
1000- MPE finally! Get Bab map [2C], "cf" from Mongols, get their map [4C, IIRC] and poly. Eng "war". Ger gives 100g for peace. IIRC we bribed Ur[barb city] this turn for 104g, gaining 2A's and a useful port.

1000- Stats 19C, mon, 70g, pop460k, 13adv, 3S, 10w, 2A, 1h, 4tri, 1d, 1bx.
Babs=contact, Mongs=cf, Eng=war, Ger =peace. Goals: Make ellies, get tribute. Babs and Ger seem weak, should need little attention. We can reach London eventually with East coast units, via a canal city, and we have an outpost near Nottingham (in their North). They now have a 4th city, Hastings, which we need to find asap, probably without a new Eng map. The Mongols are furthest, and strongest ... we will try to get
3-4 ellies to Karakorum via triremes rushed from Ur.

950- Mongs give 250g for peace.
900- Hut=seaf [useful for exploring for Hastings]
875- Mongs "war" [lol]. We sneak the Babs and raze Nineveh, though one Spanish ellie is badly injured, and now useless. So, we need to attack the capitol mainly with 1 Archer and 1 ellie.
800- Babs down
750- [approx] Barbs invade our SW coast and take Barcelona 2, which supported the Bab campaign, but is now expendable. Our outpost units defeat Nottingham, our explorer finds Hastings, and Spanish flotillas approach London. We win and lose skirmishes with the Mongols. They take Hamburg. We are now producing enough units to push North soon [Purple Berlin+Hamburg and Blue Leipzig], but it will be harder to penetrate the distant Mongolian homeland.

End of Log. We finished between 725bc and 400bc.

A Curiosity: On my map, the tile <34,48>17 is tundra, but it appears to be on land mass "1" (and "17" is a sea). Probably a bug of some sort, but I have never seen this before.


Sep 27, 2001
I started out thinking conquest, but things started to grow, so I tried for a pre-1000AD landing, which I have never achieved on a random map. And I was unsuccessful here as well.

Emperor level, no starting techs, only 4 other Civs, barbs Raging, Small map

Looks like a lean and mean conquest game!

Well, the first question is pop now or wait. Pop means an extra three turns before city founding on river. And we want to be on the river. Alternatively, we could found not on the river and have the 2nd city there. That must be slow &#8211; we will catch up in six turns and then be at a disadvantage. But founding on the river means 6 turns before the hut is popped, which is even worse. SO:
Hut: Horse. Horse goes north.
3950 Settler goes SE back to river.
3850* Madrid at (41,39) Tax to 60.
3800 Research CB. Hut: Seville at (33,25) &#8211; that&#8217;s nice! Now I don&#8217;t have to worry about size 1.
3750 Germans: no peace &#8211; Berlin is undefended. We raze it, take CB. Germans destroyed. We will need MPE to see who respawned
3700 Res Alph. I am trying Peaster's low science plan.
Madrid RB warriors for explore and defend.
3600 Hut: Barb horse. Our horse makes short work of him.
3500 hut near Madrid: Nomads.
3400 Toledo founded next to a hut to avoid problems.
3300 Hut: Archers (Seville) &#8211; it will return for defence. Hut: Chariot (Toledo)
3250* Alphabet => Maps.
3100 Hut: Archer (Madrid)
3000 Hut: Cordoba (40,20)
Status: 4C, Archer, 1 settler, warrior, horse. Hut luck was well able average.

2900 Valencia on E. coast.
2850* Maps => CoL. Hut: Myst. Salamanca near old Berlin.
2700 find Babylonians: Peace.
2600 Barcelona on SE coast.
2550 disorder in Seville. Hut: 50g. Taxes back to 60.
2500 CoL => Wri
2250* Wri =>Monarchy (0/70)
2150 hut: 50g. Valladolid
2100 Saragossa (9)
2000 Status: 9c, Despotism. 6 techs, Researching Monarchy. 3 Settlers, 2 archers, 2 Warriors, 1 horse, 1 chariot, 1 Trireme.

1950 Monarchy =>BW. Find Karakorum size 3: get BW, give some tech, share maps, get 50g tribute.
1900 Hut: Chariot (Barcelona). Revolution.
1850* Gov: Monarchy. The low science plan seems to lead to later Monarchy and more cities.
1800 Bilbao (11)
1650* Curr => Trade
1500 Malaga, Pamplona (15), Vigo (16)
1450* Avila Canal(17)
1400 Trade => Lit. Leon (18) We have a lot of hides producers.
English: get HB. share maps. Nottingham is Barb. York needs Hides!

Rest and plan
Science is coming every 5 turns
Shipchain to York will be 8 triremes long. It should be workable with four for a start. Wine and wool are also good. It looks like the Republic of Hides will be very profitable, even on a small map.
That way I can ICS to 50 cities by 500bc, and the conquest should come vinnysoon after.
Decision: Continue ICS in home territories or take a break for triremes and vans? We could use another coastal city and 2 home van producers. The fertile lands on the near island should produce some triremes, and could use more cities. With science high, I am only getting 14g./turn. So a fast Hides van will help everything.
I could do it with a trireme in Barcelona and a van in Valencia. Then by the time Madrid builds a wine van there should be time to ICS 4 more home cities.

1350 Burgos (19). Find Samarkand (Mongol).
1300 Hut: Legion (Vigo) now our English defence should be ok
1250* Barbs near Cordoba. The whole area could fall.
1200 Lit=< Phil. Hides van starts to York. The barb archers move menacingly
1150 horse kills one archer, move settler to forest square and hope
1100 last archer immolates on settler on forest. Babs start Pyr.
1050* Barb leader 150g.
1000 Phil. Poly => Pots. Valencia Hides to York (d, 80) hmm &#8211; not so great. Maybe better from further away? Santander. RB more triremes.

Status: 20C, 14 tech res Pots.
2 Sett, 17 Warrior, 2 phalanx, 2 archer, 1 legion, 2 horse, 2 chariot, 3 trireme, 2 vans.

Rest and plan:
Pots comes soon, and HG. Shipchain is coming (4 ships online next turn). Need wonder vans after next deliveries. Making vet ellies for Mongols, and should take them out in 10 turns. 4 ellies should do it.
English Island needs more settlers.
Raging barbs needs some defence in random places.
Should also get money from tribute.

Reduce science to 30.
Tribute: Babs 100, English 25, Mongols: ignore.
975 Ciudad Rodrigo (21). Babs: Warrior Code.
925* Barbs land near Nottingham. Babs: Pots. , English 25, Mongols:ignore
900 Res Mono. Barbs take Nottingham. Again. Valencia hides to York (d, 96). A little better.
Babs: 50g , English WAR, Mongols:ignore
875 Mono => Rep. Madrid Wine to York (d, 140)
850 5 ships in the line Saragossa Wool to London (d, 104). Babs: Masonry. Mongols: 50g. English: peace, 50g
825* Republic => Constr. We are too weak for Republic.
775 Toledo Wine to London (d, 90) Madrid Hides to York (d, 112) Calatrava. Babs WAR Engolsh ignore, Mongols 25
750 Cartagena. Babs peace Engolsh WAR Mongols IW. Valecia Hides to York (d, 96)
675 Madrid builds HG.
650 Construction => Medicine. Naples, Issus. Barcelona Hides to York (d, 112) Madrid hides to York (d, 168). . Babs WAR Engolsh withdraw, Mongols ignore. REVOLUTION
625* Gov: Republic. Lux to 60
600 many celebrations. Polar hut: nomad
575 fewer celebrations
550 Toledo hides to York (d, 200g) Cunaxa, Cremona,Cannae. All distant hides producers
525* Medicine => wheel. Capua. Turin.Celebrations ended
500 Leon Hides to York (d, 184)

Status: 30C, 22 techs, res Wheel. HG
4 sett, 8 warr, 2 phalanx, 2 archer, 2 legion, 4 horse, 2 chariot, 2 elephant, 3 crooks, 8 trireme, 6 vans.
450 Barcelona Hides to York (d, 232)
425 Wheel => Eng. Madrid Hides to York (d, 312)
400 vans delivered for MC
375 MC in Madrid. Verona. Hut: Seafaring. Ciudad Rodrigo Hides to York (d, 256)
350 Eng -=> Bank. More celebrations.
325 Barbs in the west &#8211; we set a trap.

Rest. Should I have conquered by now? I certainly am enjoying the Hides Fair.

300 Barbs land
275 Ciudad Rodrigo Hides to York (d, 336). Barbs take Salamis. We retake netting a Legion. Barb archer bribed for 70
. Bribe Nottingham from the Barbarians
250 Cordoba Hides to York (d, 232). Mongols: WAR!!
225* Samarkand captured
200 Madrid Hides to York (d, 344) Valencia wool to York (u, 144)
175 San=> bridges
150 Burgos Wine to York (d, 470) Seville Hides to York (d, 344) Bokhara subverted.
125* Barbs land near Genoa. Bridges => Math
100 Madrid Hides to York (d, 344) Saragossa hides to York (d, 256). Capture Karakorum. Mongols destroyed
75 Math => Univ. Madrid builds Shakespeare.
50 Valladolid builds MPE - no Blue Civ!
Only 2 Civs left
Babs: 4 Cities &#8211; won&#8217;t trade maps even at Worshipful.
English: 3 Cities Trade maps.
Ciudad Rodrigo Hides to York (d, 320). Saragossa Hides to York (d, 288)
25* Madrid builds Aqueduct.
1AD Univ = Astro. Leon Hides to York (d, 488)

Status: 40C, 30 Tech res Astro.
15 Sett, 7 Warr, 8 Phalanx, 8 archer, 2 legion, 2 chariot, 2 elephant, 3 crooks, 12 Trireme, 3 dips, 8 vans (20 in production)


Sep 27, 2001
1AD Status: 40C, 30 Tech res Astro.
15 Sett, 7 Warr, 8 Phalanx, 8 archer, 2 legion, 2 chariot, 2 elephant, 3 crooks, 12 Trireme, 3 dips, 8 vans (20 in production)
Not much for planning except I should eliminate Warriors and have have 4 more boats. The Republic of Hides is doing well.

20 Seville Hides to York (d, 376)
40 Astro => Econ
80 Madrid Hides to York (d, 384)
100 Econ => Chem. Leon Hides to York (d, 456)
120 Ciudad Rodrigo Hides to York (d, 376). Sargasso Hides to York (d, 208)
140* Chem => Inv. Madrid Hides to York (d, 344) Leon Hides to York (d, 456). Madrid builds Colossus
160 Inv =>Demo. Madrid builds Pyramids
180 Madrid Hides to York (d 256). Leon Hides to York (d, 228)
200 Leonardo in Valladolid. Saragossa Hides to York (d, 168) Saragossa Hides to York (d, 168)
220* Demo => Guns. Revolution. Contact English: 250g tribute. Babs: withdraw. Gov: Demo

Not much to plan here - keep those hides coming and control happiness until Galleons.

240 Ciudad Rodrigo Hides to York (d, 228). Santander Hides to York (d, 184)
260 Salamanca Wine to Hastings (d, 150_ Santander Hides to York (d, 184)
280 Gunpowder => expl. Leon Hides to York (d, 288)
320 Expl => Nav, Seville hides to York (d, 232). Leon Hides to York (d, 288)
340 Nav => Phys

--there is now a string of 1-tech/turn moves.
380* Phys = Magnets
400 Magnets = Steam. Galleons mean Demo celebrations can begin
420 Steam =>ToG Madrid builds Cope&#8217;s. Sargasso Hides to York (d, 216)
440 ToG => Metallurgy
460* Metallurgy=>RR

and after a turn of preparation the next phase begins.
500 RR => Ind. HG cancelled, celebrations cease.


Sep 27, 2001
My preparations for RR made this an especially satisfying turn:

520 Ind => Conscr. Valladolid completes Darwin. Conscr, Corporation => Electricity.
A good three-tech turn!

540* Electr=>Gen Eng &#8211; deliver freight for Newton. Madrid unblocks hides. Some deliveries but no tech next turn &#8211; science down for cash.

After this break, the tech/turn continued through 980, including one 2-tech turn in 940, but it still was not fast enough for a pre-1000 launch. I guess i was tardy with libraries, but I really don't know. I played extremely carefully in this phase, so it is a conceptual issue.

560 Madrid builds Newton. Ghent Island Hides to York (d, 152) Bokhara hides to York (d, 156) Seville Hides to York (d, 240). Turin Hides to York (d, 136). Ur in revolt subverted for double gold. Start Markets in many cities in imitation of PD.
580 Gen Eng => Refrig. Dublin Dye to London (d, 120). Hides to York: Cordoba 160, Samarkand 176, Santander 192, Cremona 136, Calatrava 176, Ciudad Rodrigo, 236, Samarkand 176. Silk Issus &#8211; Valladolid 258 &#8211; hey, maybe I can do some lucrative domestic trading too!. Naples builds destroyer and takes care of Barb Frigate.

600 Refrig => Steel. Madrid Hides to York (d, 464) Genoa Hides to York (d, 148). Capua Silk to Seville (d, 156) Santander hides to York 192, Toledo Wine to York (d, 201), Cannae Hides 162, Ciudad Rodrigo 243.

Status: Gov: Demo. 52 Cities, 24 Engineers
50 techs res Steel.
1 Warrior,1 Musket (exploiting the continued warrior build before feudalism)
22 rifles, 5 horse, 1 elephant, 6 crooks, 1 destroyer, 27 transport (that&#8217;s more like it), 4 dips, 29 freight, 23 in production.
Many MP built &#8211; still need about 10 more.
Railroad network almost done.
Madrid hides regularly unblocked with local deliveries

Goal is still SS before 1000. (it would be my first) - Space Flight is 14 turns away, so it is possible. I will need some 2 tech turns.
Need vans for Cancer &#8211; after MP building. After a MP the hides vans should make about 240 each.
Should make farmland for Madrid to grow.
Hmmm &#8211; hides often stop after MP gets built.

620* Steel => Atom Theo. Milan Silk to Avila Canal (d, 176) Hides: Oviedo Canal to York (114) Ghent Island to York (152), Karakorum to York, 172. Madrid, 484. Malaga Gems to Nottingham (d, 192)
640 Atom Theo => Refining. Leon Wine to York (d, 295). Bergen Spice to Ellipi (d, 174). Grenada Canal beads to Dublin (d, 104). Hides to York: Cannae (198), Verona (176) Genoa (168) Ciudad Rodrigo (260). Madrid Gems to Pisa (d, 110)
660 Refining => Feud. Sargossa wine to York (d, 240). Many hides to Ellipi.
680 Valladolid builds Cure for Cancer. Feud=>Chiv. Samarkand wine to York (d, 245). Cartagena Wine to Cremona (d, 150) I have to set science to 70 to get an advance.
700* Chiv => Combust. Toronto Hides to Ashur (d, 128). Nottingham beads to Babylon (d, 216) Avila canal to Madrid (d, 147). Madrid Cloth to London (u, 234) Santander hides to York (d, 224) Ciudad Rodrigo hides to York (d, 260) Madrid Gems to York (u, 242) Karakorum hides to York (d, 188)
720 Combustion => Auto. Cremona Hides to York (d, 152) Cordoba hides to York (d, 164) Santander hides to York (d, 240) Cannae Hides to York (d, 200) Genoa Hides to York (d, 228) Turin hides to York (d, 168)
740 Auto cancels Leo. => electr. Prague wine to York (d, 275). Hides to York: Genoa 228, Verona 204, Verona 204, Ciudad Rodrigo, 268, Cordoba, 208, Karakorum 228. Burgos Silk to Naples (d, 228). Next turn will be hard to get an advance.
760* Electr=>Mass prod. Destroyer in Ghent Canal makes quick work of Barb frigate. Salamanca Gold to Capua (d, 182). Calatrava Hides to York (d, 236). Salamis Wine to York (d, 250) Avila Canal Wine to York (d, 340). Samarkand gold to York (u, 122)
780 Mass Prod=> Nuke Fission. Pollution near Madrid &#8211; just in time for Mass Transit. Cadiz hides to Ashur (d, 264) Hides to York: Cremona 176, Genoa, 216; Ciudad Rodrigo 252; Karakorum 212. Madrid Gems to London (u, 471). Ur 2x Hides to York (d, 212). Ghent Island hides to Ashur (d, 308). I should build some superhighways.
800 Nuke fission=>Leadership. Cartagena Hides to Ashur (d, 220). Ur Hides to York (d, 212). Salamanca Oil to Madrid (d, 345). Pisa Spice to Ciudad Rodrigo.(d, 246). Vigo Silk to Madrid (u, 205). Salzburg wine to Madrid (u, 202)

60 techs: 10 turns to Space Fight.. We are short of hides producers now (only 14) so it is getting harder. I may need some libraries for 2-a-turns. I built none until now

820 Lead=>Tactics Naples Gold to Madrid (u, 201). Nottingham Oil to Nineveh (u, 174) Madrid Cloth to London (u, 540). Hides to york: 5x 201. 1-turn option just appeared in the Tax window, but every city would be in disorder. Build many aqueducts. Maybe this was the crucial mistake.
840* Tactics=> Machine Tools. Karakorum Silver to London (d, 315). Madrid cloth to London (u, 525)
860 Machine Tools => Nuke power &#8211; still hoping for a twofer before flight. It looks possible this turn. Nineveh gems to Toronto (d, 542). I think the hit to happiness will still be too much.
880 Nuke Power => Min
900 Miniature =>Computers. Calatrava Uranium to Madrid (d, 496)
920* Computers => Laser

940 Laser=>Flight. Dublin builds SETI, Flight=>Mobile War. My only 2-turn tech advance so far.

960 Mobile W => Radio
980 Radio =>Adv Flight
1000* no advance this turn. Senate forces peace with English. Hides to York x5. Madrid Cloth to London (u, 268). Adv Flight means Space Flight next, so I need vans or $$ for Apolo and SS Parts.

1020 Adv Flight=>Robotics
1040 Robots=>Space Flight. Space Flight => Plastics. Ghent Island Hides to Ashur (d, 288) My second and final 2-tech turn.
1060 Plastics=> Superconductor. Science to 0. Apollo built.

Ship plan: Fastest is 33-8-8-1-1-1; Smallest is 15-1-1-1-1-1. I plan a 15-3-3-1-1-1 (15.7 years). Need 24 parts centers.

1080 use 2400g to build many vans. 10 wonders started.
1100 Superconductor => Fundy &#8211; no Fusion option. So launch will be delayed. Cremona Uranium to Nottingham (d, 246). Not much bang for a Uranium delivery from a size 8 city to a size 12 city on a different continent! Many hides vans.

I used 3175 gold to build in 27 sites using the remaining sites for actual wonders. I launched soon and finished before 1500AD.
Mar 21, 2011
Interesting logs! The first thing I noticed was that you shouldn't kill the purple civ if you are going for space. Furthermore, Ali's opening post indicated that there would not be any respawn ("restarts off").
As for my own game, I was not planning for anything in the beginning, just play and see how it goes. It would have been EC if I could have wiped out the Germans in -3700. But the map was marvellous, usually, small maps only have one big continent and a lot of hills and mountainswhich is pretty bad for a space game. My hut luck was extremely good and gave me 3 nice outposts (2 of them were later taken away by barbs).

My log until 1000BC:
Resource seed is 31 or 63
-4000 chariot from hut, discover silk, seed is 63
-3850 Madrid founded @41,39, work rivered forest for s1-settler
-3800 Research Alph; none-Archer from hut
-3750 Archer discovers Berlin, deny peace-offer since it seems to be empty
(German warrior comes back to Berlin)
-3550 Alph->Burial; None-horse from hut; hail germans, peace, they offer HBR, no
-3350 50g from hut
-3250 100g from hut, meet Mongols; sign peace, get Bronze-work.
-3200 s1-settler produced, we have enough gold for another
-3050 2nd settler, Sevilla founded; another none-Archer near Germany
-3000 Burial->Laws
-2950 supported Archer from hut; Toledo founded
-2900 Discover Karakorum and Leipzig
-2850 Nomads from hut
-2800 Eureka founded from Nomads @51,37, possible SSC; 100g from hut
-2650 Laws->Monarchy
-2600 Nomads in Nothern forest
-2400 Valencia founded; Adv. tribe (Salamanca) @15,21
-2350 Barcelona, Valladolid(23,11) founded
-2250 Monarchy(revolt+est.)->Currency
-2200 Saragossa founded
(Valladolid destroyed by barbs - fortified phalanx lost agains Archer)
-2000 Meet Babylonian warrior, peace, we agree, get WC from them (hoping for something better, but only choice, at least we have a 30s unit now), get 50g tribute; Cadiz founded

Stats at 2000 BC:
pop.: 130k; Cities: 9; techs: 6; gold: 67; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
units: 1 settler, 0 warrior, 4 archer, 1 horse, 1 chariot
Goals: Expand some more and then..., hard to decide between EC, EL or Gold game

-1950 50g from hut
-1900 Curr->Trade; Bilbao founded; hail germans, they offer mapmaking, yes! (Also have masonry, pottery, HBR), also get 50g gift
-1850 Eureka grows and revolts; gift monarchy to Babyls to get their map, but they say goodbye
-1800 gift mapmak. to Babs and goodbye again
-1750 hail Babyls, get their map; hail Mongols, gift some techs to appease them(and key civving), no tech exchange offer, get 50g tribute; discover that 22,24 also would be an excellent SSC-site, will settle there in 2 turns but not many helpers around...
-1700 Granada, Malaga founded
-1650 Pamplona founded; Myst. from polar hut>this unfortunately delays trade
-1550 Trade->Writing; Avila founded; max taxes to speed up HG
-1500 1st boat built, land on island 6; get pottery from Germans
-1350 Leon founded on island 2; demand babylonian tribute, get Masonry
-1250 HG built, finally some air to breathe, next goal is pyramids; still no sign of English, don't remember them being eliminated, they are not in the top5 but in the "declare-war-on" list
-1150 Warrior on island 2 bumps into barb archer
(Warrior dies, this is not a good prospect for Leon)
-1100 All techs to Mongols makes them only cordial, so no maps
-1050 Trireme kills barb leader on island 6, 150g; Archer outside Leon, it is size 2, so we could at least bribe it back (or leave as offshore trading partner???)
(Barbs take Leon, Germans begin pyramids)
-1000 Writing->Seafaring (philo would be blocked next); pyramids built ; archer in Antarctica finds entry to island 6 from south; get 75g tribute from Germany

Stats at 1000 BC:
pop.: 460k; Cities: 15; techs: 13; gold: 146; Gov.: Mon; wonders: HG, Pyr; TR: 0D/0F
units: 3 settler, 6 warrior, 4 archer, 1 horse, 1 chariot, 1 boat
Goals: Expand and find English


Sep 27, 2001
3750 Archer discovers Berlin, deny peace-offer since it seems to be empty
(German warrior comes back to Berlin)

Yes? And no attack in 3700BC?
Pros: no barrier to expansion, possibly no respawn
Cons: They could build cities for you which could be bribed later.

I have always had good luck with immediate wipeouts.
Mar 21, 2011
I did not want to risk losing my exploring archer. And also a gut feeling that the germans might be useful later on as trading partner and research assistant. And the way my game went, I am happy I keptthem alive.
Mar 21, 2011
I finished some days ago and it turned out to be an incredible game, probably the best game I have ever played! :eek: I do not want to give away too much for now, since some players might not have even started, but WOW! ;)

My next 1000 years:

-925 Literacy from hut
-900 Eureka builds van and London demands dye, so they are alive somewhere! My guess is northern part of island 6, so build that van and ship it there, Colossus should be done by then; Burgos founded
-875 Oviedo, Santander founded
-800 Seafaring->Philo; We have a settler near Hastings
-775 Ciudad Rodrigo founded (island 6); 50g from hut
-750 Colossus built in Eureka; supported horse on island 6
-700 Grab barb leader in Mongolia by trireme 150g; Calatrava, Cartagena founded
-675 discover Hastings and finally meet English, peace, gift some techs, gamble on tech-exchange and get HBR, maps, 100g tribute; Neapel, Issus founded; Gift HBR to Mongols, so nobody has poly
Plan: set up a ship-chain from Eureka to London (through Cartagena), 5 triremes will do, we have 2 ready; Michelangelo is urgently needed
-650 demanded dye to Hasting for 202
-625 Philo->Poly->Medicine; Cunaxa, Cremona(island 3)
(Barbs take over York)
-575 Cannae founded, no tribute from Germany or Babylon
-550 Embassy with Mongols, they are researching IW
-525 Realize that York is back in English hands, good news since they are demanding hides
-500 Capua founded (island 4); Embassy with Babylon (researching writing)
-475 Medic.->Mono; Deliveries 96, 140, 152; We will be able to build Michelangelo in 3 turns
-450 Mono->Construction; Embassy with Germany; delivery 240
-425 100g tribute from Babylon
-400 Turin, Genua founded; finally got Mongol map
-375 Michelangelo built; Embassy with England (they are still in despotism but are researching wheel); delay delivery
-350 Constr.->Republic; Kreta, Verona founded; delivery 248
-325 Salamis founded
(Babs develop republic)
-300 get Republic from Babs (just in time, almost discovered it ourselves), get wheel from England; Lissabon founded
-275 Math->Astro; deliveries 304, 112; Hamburgo founded
-250 Revolution
-225 Become republic
-200 Astro->Univ.; Shakespeare built; delivery 288
-150 Uni->Engineering; Prag founded; deliveries 396, 18
(2 barb Archers outside Santander, one heavily wounded by Babs)
-125 Engin.->Sanitation; Get Banking from Germany, prepare a dip to bribe back Santander
(One Barb Archer dies attacking, other kills defender)
-100 Bribe barb Archer for 61g; deliveries 56, 280; AT on island 7 (Salzburg)
-75 Sanitation->Economics; 2 vans outside Babylon for delivery, but they are rioting
-50 Get IW from Babylon (they are doing Feudalism now); Deliveries 100, 100; Crusader from hut on island 5, supported by use, disbanded
-25 Deliveries 454 (and the box is full)
(England Bridge-Building)
+1 Econ.->Chemistry; Get BB from England; delivery 344

Stats at 1 AD:
pop.: 4.3M; Cities: 36; techs: 32; gold: 581; Gov.: Rep; wonders: HG, Pyr, Colossus, Michelangelo; TR: 0D/13F
units: 15 settler, 15 warrior, 5 phalanx, 5 archer, 2 horse, 1 chariot, 1 explorer, 8 boat, 24 vans
Goals: Eventually big space game, not sure what to prioritize next: Engineers? Bach? Better boats?


Sep 26, 2004
@Major: well that sounds interesting. Ali has extended the deadline for another week,
so maybe we should not say everything yet. But can you tell us in general terms what made it great? I would also like to explain the choice of this map eventually.
Mar 21, 2011
Well, great was:
- Trade income (for gold and for science)
- AI (research assistance(as far as they could) and trade partners)
- Hut outcomes
- Endgame after launch
- The landing date

Not great was:
- some minor barb activities
- Getting Invention rather surprisingly
- missing some advances that I expected

And the greats heavily outweigh the not-greats!

I leave some more selected notes of my log with omitted years for those who have finished already:
Spoiler :

Are you really sure you want to see this?
Spoiler :

- Feud.->Theology; Invention from polar hut; deliveries 32, 368(should have delivered before popping that hut) ; Gent founded
- Theo-Navigation>; Copernicus built (Could have done a lot earlier, but hides vans seemed more important); Deliveries 210, 195
- Nav.->Physics(936) (to be followed by Gunp.->Expl.); Bach completed
- Demo(revolt)->Steam; choose Monarchy, get 75g tribute from Babylon, 175 from Mongols, 125 from Germany, 75 from England; switch to Demo; deliveries 224, 236, 115; Not really set for celebrations right now, set Lux to 0 and every city is content
- Steam->Railroad; deliv. 484, 288, 188; Melbourne founded
- RR->Metallurgy->(triggered by Eureka->zoom to Madrid to complete Darwin)->Industry->Corporation->Electricity; del. 608, 255, 204, 69; enough gold for 100% science
- Electr.->Mass Prod.; 52, 80, 276, 300, 232, 360, 342; can get another 2 a/t with 90% science
- Space->plastics->Supercond.(2204); Apollo built; 225, 694, 400, 445, 601, 387
- Fusion->FT1->Communism; ship 19-3-2-2-2-2; 304, 411, 784, 610, 212, 364*3, 264, 264; 3400 gold left and short of some parts...could squeeze out our civ and launch next turn, but rather do another turn and keep the civ healthy, there is still a life after launch
- FT2->FT3->Espionage; :band: Here the ship sailed out into the blue and sunny morn, the sweetest sight ever seen...:band:, arrival scheduled for XXX; 416, 700, 274, 350, 464, 464



Sep 27, 2001
What a great game, Major! You beat us to Monarchy and Trade, and leveraged that into an impressively early HG. I loved your equanimity in the face of Barbs conquering city after city. I definitely panicked and compromised the civ for a few turns each time it happened. You handled the decisions about wonder building and Government switching extremely well, and the RR/Darwin turn was nicely done.

I am still not totally sold on the early gold strategy, and I have to rethink my wonder order. I don't usually have 9 cities by 2000bc, so thoughts of Colossus and Pyramids are usually far from my mind.
Mar 21, 2011
Thank you very much!
Well, my early games was vrey lucky: I got some units to explore, then enough gold to build two size-1-settlers, then the outside-tech to allow a straight path to monarchy, then two nomads and an advanced tribe!:eek:
And for the barbs, this was not threatening at all: The first city they destroyed was an outpost founded by nomads east of Mongolia, so by then they were the Mongols problem (and maybe the germans). I only lost the city (and the gold I spent to rush the defending phalanx). The second city was conquered, but it was on island 2, so no threat at all! I had sent a boat with a dip there soon after, but when I was able to bribe the city back, there were 3 barb archers taking a walk on the island and I didn't want to have to fight them. So I went exploring the area instead (and got an advanced tribe on island 7) and bribed the city later when there were 2 archers adjacent and I got them along with the city.

Ali Ardavan

Retired Moderator
May 29, 2002
Michigan, USA
I started playing weeks ago, shortly after the game was posted. But for one reason or another did not post my progress. (forgot to bring it with me, brought the wrong thing, ...). Then came one out of town trip after another and totally took away all my game and forum time. I have not touched the game in nearly 3 weeks but last I left it the space race had just started.
I have briefly looked at the comments here and looks like everyone is doing a superb job with this one. I will soon (hopefully) read everything in detail. My log follows.

Ali Ardavan

Retired Moderator
May 29, 2002
Michigan, USA
-4000 Tentative strategy is early landing. 50g from hut.
-3950 Madrid founded.
-3900 -> Alphabet.
-3750 Warrior produced. Settler started.
-3600 Advanced tribe founds Seville at 46,38! This is wonderful hut luck but I have to scrap my size 1 settler plan.
-3550 Alphabet -> Code of Laws.
-3450 Archer from hut.
-3250 Code of Laws -> Bronze. Barbarian horseman from hut.
-3200 Archer barely survives the horse and turns vet. 50g from hut.

Status at -3000
Population: 0.04M; Cities: 2; Techs: 2; Government: Despotism
Gold: 92; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Units: 1 settlers, 1 warrior, 1 archer
Goals: Expansion, Monarchy
Babylonian: no contact
German: no contact
English: no contact
Mongol: no contact

-2950 Toledo founded on forest at 39,43.
-2900 Bronze -> Burial.
-2750 Cordoba founded on river at 51,33.
-2700 Archer runs into German archer. Refused to exchange for Pottery but gave away Code of Laws for peace. Germans are supreme, we are mighty.
-2550 Burial -> Monarchy.
-2300 Valencia founded.
-2250 Monarchy -> Currency. Monarchy established. T3L0S7. Barbarian horseman from polar hut.
-2200 Barbarian disappears. Salamanca founded at 52,40.
-2050 Currency -> Trade.

Status at -2000
Population: 0.08M; Cities: 6; Techs: 6; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 1; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Units: 1 settlers, 4 warriors, 1 archer
Goals: Expansion, Trade, Marco
Babylonian: no contact
German: no embassy
English: no contact
Mongol: no contact

-1950 Barcelona founded.
-1800 Trade -> mapmaking. T7L0S3. Barbarian horseman from hut.
-1750 Warrior survives barbarian horse despite being on grass!
-1700 Valladolid founded.
-1650 Barbarian archer lands near Valladolid.
-1600 Valladolid is captured by barbarians. T3L0S7 to get writing faster and bribe the city back.
-1550 Exploring warrior discovers Berlin.
-1500 The other barbarian archer is moving towards Barcelona and I only have a warrior nearby.
-1450 Barbarian backs off! The consequences of losing two cities this early would have been devastating.
-1400 Mapmaking -> Writing. My vet archer easily kills the barbarian near Cordoba. Horseback riding from hut. This is awful. Saragossa founded.
-1250 Cadiz founded. Ran into Babylonian warrior near Berlin. Reached peace but refused to exchange for warrior code.
-1150 Bilbao founded.
-1100 Marco built. No one has writing though Germans are working on it. I can get it in 2 turns.
-1050 Ran into Mongols and accepted peace.
-1000 Writing -> Literacy. Granada founded. T7L0S3
Writing, Trade -> German (4) -> Pottery, maps
Writing, Laws, Trade, Monarchy, mapmaking -> Babylonian (3) -> Mysticism, maps, 0g
Mapmaking -> Mongol (5) -> maps
Writing, Trade, mapmaking -> English (2) -> maps, 0g

Status at -1000
Population: 0.21M; Cities: 11 Techs: 12; Government: Monarchy
Gold: 4; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders: Marco
Units: 2 settlers, 6 warriors, 1 Phalanx, 1 archer, 2 vans
Goals: Bribery of Valladolid, offshore expansion, Hanging Gardens, Philosophy, trade with the English
Babylonian: 2 cities, 9 techs; war with Mongols
German: 2 cities, 8 techs; war with Mongols
English: 4 cities, 5 techs;
Mongol: 2 cities, 7 techs; war with Babylonians and Germans

-0975 German, Mongol -> 0g
-0950 Malaga founded.
-0900 Valladolid bribed for 52g. Got 3 archers. Babylonian -> 25g, others -> 0g
-0850 Abskun founded as the first offshore city on island 4. German -> 50g. Mongols declare war over my tribute demand. Babylonian -> 25g. T3L0S7
-0800 4 barbarian horsemen from remote hut. Accepted Mongol offer of 150g for cease fire!
-0775 Barbarians kill my warrior. German -> 50g, Babylonian -> 25g.
-0750 Literacy -> Philosophy. Hanging Gardens built. Vigo founded near Babylonians. Literacy to all rivals. Accepted Mongol offer of 50g for peace.
-0725 2 barbarian archers land near Granada. Its settler moves back in.
-0700 Barbarian kills my settler. Rushed diplomat bribes the barbarian and it kills the other archer.
-0650 Philosophy -> Republic -> Seafaring. Advanced tribe founds Shush near the southern end of the English island. Barbarian horseman, who was about to attack Vigo, bribed for 41g. Gave Republic to all rivals but Mongols. Babylonians gave me warrior code as a tribute.
-0625 English declared war over my demand for tribute.
-0600 Archer survives barbarian horseman and turns vet. Zabol founded on island 2. Dezful founded on island 6.
-0575 Philosophy -> Babylonian -> Masonry, 50g. Republic, Philosophy -> Mongol -> Wheel, Polytheism, 0g. Oviedo and Zahedan founded.
-0550 Philosophy -> German -> Math, 0g. Mongol -> 25g. 25g from hut.
-0525 Ciudad Rodrigo founded.
-0500 Shushtar founded. German -> 0g

Status at -0500
Population: 0.44M; Cities: 22 Techs: 20 Government: Monarchy
Gold: 13; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens
Units: 8 settlers, 6 warriors, 5 archers, 1 horseman, 3 triremes, 1 diplomat, 3 vans
Footprint: 16 cities in mainland; 3 in 6 (England); 2 in 2; 1 in 4
Goals: Further expansion, Colossus, trade with the English
Babylonian: 2 cities, 12 techs;
German: 3 cities, 12 techs; war with Mongols
English: 5 cities, 8 techs; war with me
Mongol: 3 cities, 14 techs; war with Germans

-0450 Cartagena founded near Berlin and Leipzig. Germans declare war when I ask them to move their troops. Lost a warrior attacking Germans. Revolution started. All my rivals are already a republic.
-0425 Mongol -> 0g. Accepted German offer of 100g for cease fire. Republic established. T4L2S4
-0375 Pamplona and Avila founded.
-0350 Seafaring -> Construction. Wool to London for 192 establishes the first trade route. T4L3S3
-0325 Hides to York for 224. T3L3S4
-0300 English steal Math. Construction -> Iron working.
-0275 T2L4S4
-0250 Leon founded.T2L6S2
-0225 Science city of Seville reaches size 8. T6L2S2
-0200 Turned down Mongol offer of alliance against Germans. English chariot spotted near Shushtar. Phalanx moves to hilltop. T4L2S4\
-0175 Phalanx survives English chariot.
-0150 Colossus built. Silver to London for 240. T0L2S8
-0125 Barbarians land near Granada. Iron Working -> Bridge Building. Vet archer kills barbarians. Hides from science city of Seville to York for 352.
-0100 Bridge building -> Banking. Copper from Barcelona to Seville for 60 establishes the first domestic trade route. Seville now has 3 trade routes. Canal48 founded at 24,18 connecting lakes 4, 8, and another (63). This location would have made a great science city had it not been this far from the capital. Construction -> German (3) -> Banking, maps. T2L2S6
-0075 Trireme barely survives English trireme. -> Monotheism. Gems to Nottingham for 108.
-0050 Monotheism -> Medicine. T4L2S4
-0025 Domestic offshore hides for 84.
+0001 Hides to Babylonian Ur for 92. Domestic Copper for 68. Burgos founded.

Status at +1
Population: 1.3M; Cities: 28 Techs: 26 Government: Republic
Gold: 24; Cost: 5; Trade routes: 6D6F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Units: 17 settlers, 7 warriors, 5 Phalanx, 5 archers, 1 horseman, 3 triremes, 1 diplomat, 10 vans
Footprint: 22 cities in mainland; 3 in 6 (England); 2 in 2; 1 in 4
Goals: Michelangelo, further expansion, further trade, Copernicus
Babylonian: 2 cities, 17 techs;
German: 3 cities, 16 techs;
English: 5 cities, 12 techs; war with me
Mongol: 3 cities, 24 techs

+0020 Medicine -> Astronomy.
+0040 University from hut.
+0060 Barbarian legions land near Dezful. English diplomat killed. Wine to London for 330.
+0080 Barbarians kill Phalanx defending Dezful and a warrior exploring nearby. Astronomy -> Engineering. Freshly produced crusader kills one of 3 barbarian legions. Beads to Babylon for 92.
+0100 Crusader kills a second barbarian legion and turns vet.
+0120 Michelangelo built.
+0160 Domestic Hides for 44. T4L3S3
+0180 Last barbarian legion killed in attack on my vet Phalanx. Engineering -> Sanitation. Ahvaz and Turin founded. T3L4S3
+0200 Domestic deliveries for 100, 96, 112. Genoa founded. T2L4S4
+0240 Sanitation -> Chemistry. Domestic deliveries for 252. English catapult killed.
+0260 English lose a chariot on Shushtar. Crusader kills another chariot. It is unusual for the AI to bring such a large army (a catapult and 2 chariots) for taking a city. Hides to Ur for 116. Domestic deliveries for 144. Nomad from northern hut.
+0280 Chemistry -> Invention. Salt to London for 296. Domestic deliveries for 252.
+0300 Invention -> Theory of Gravity. Hides to English for 204.
+0320 English lose another Trireme attacking me. Legion from hut.
+0340 English build Great Library. Germans switch to Pyramids and build it. Shakespeare built. Theory of Gravity -> Democracy. Domestic deliveries for 40, 45.
+0360 Domestic deliveries for 180, 105. T3L4S3
+0380 Copernicus built. Democracy -> Economics. Revolution. Babylonian -> 200g, German -> 150g, Mongol -> 0g. Democracy established. 25g and None crusader from northern huts. Domestic deliveries for 108, 20. T2L4S4
+0400 Widespread celebrations. Gems to Ur for 54. Domestic deliveries for 87.
+0420 King Richards built in Seville which is now size 20 and capable of producing up to 39 shields. Economics -> Navigation. Domestic deliveries for 88, 144, 192. Nomad founds Yukon at 39,7.
+0440 Domestic deliveries for 56.
+0460 Navigation -> Physics. Domestic deliveries for 80. Verona founded.
+0480 Tech bombed Mongols. Senate hands peace to English.
+0500 Physics -> Gunpowder. Deliveries to Hastings for 272, 140. Construction -> English -> maps. T3L4S3

Status at +500
Population: 10.2M; Cities: 33 Techs: 38 Government: Democracy
Gold: 10; Cost: 27; Trade routes: 42D14F;
Wonders: Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Copernicus, King Richard
Units: 20 settlers, 6 warriors, 6 Phalanx, 5 archers, 1 legion, 1 horseman, 2 crusaders, 5 triremes, 2 diplomats, 25 vans
Footprint: 26 cities in mainland; 4 in 6 (England); 2 in 2; 1 in 4
Goals: Explosives (3-4 turns), Magnetism (2-3 turns), Theology, Refrigeration; Leo (3 turns), Newton (8 turns), Magellan, Bach, Adam Smith; colonization of islands 3,5, 7, 8.
Babylonian: 2 cities, 21 techs;
German: 3 cities, 20 techs; Pyramids; war with Mongols
English: 5 cities, 24 techs; Great Library
Mongol: 3 cities, 37 techs; war with Germans

+0520 Gunpowder -> Magnetism. Beads to Leipzig for 38. Copper to Babylon for 110. Domestic Silk for 42, 90. T2L4S4
+0540 Barbarian caravel near Cordoba. Magnetism -> Explosives. Domestic deliveries for 32.
+0560 Barbarian legions land near Cordoba. Leo built. First pollution appears and is immediately cleaned up. Salamis founded. Barbarian legions killed. Barbarian caravel bribed for 82g. Domestic deliveries for 76. T2L4S4
+0580 Explosives -> Atomic Theory. Beads to Berlin for 36. Domestic deliveries for 38, 183.
+0600 Atomic Theory -> Metallurgy. Spice to Bokhara for 111. T4L4S2
+0620 Hides to York for 280, 320. T3L4S3
+0640 Metallurgy -> Conscription. Magellan built. Wine to Hastings for 370. Silk to Hamburg for 132.
+0660 Conscription -> Electricity. Newton built. Domestic deliveries for 50. Deliveries to Leipzig for 56, 192. Doshanbe founded on island 3.
+0680 Electricity -> Steam Engine. Hides to York for 236, 304. Kish and Kharg founded on islands 5 and 8. T2L4S4
+0700 3 Barbarian Knights land near Zabol. Steam Engine -> Feudalism. Second pollution appears near Seville and is immediately cleaned up. Rifleman defending Zabol kills 2 of the barbarian knights. Beads to Samarkand for 86.
+0720 Rifleman survives the last barbarian knight. Feudalism -> Theology. Hides to York for 240, 2x280. Spice to Babylon for 87. Domestic Beads for 38.
+0740 Theology -> Chivalry. Domestic delivery for 70. Khojand founded.
+0760 Bach built. Chivalry -> Leadership. Domestic deliveries for 147, 90.
+0780 Leadership -> Refrigeration. None rifleman from polar hut. Hides to York for 280, 328. Abadan founded.
+0800 Refrigeration -> Tactics. Hides to York for 244. Undemanded beads to Mongols for 53. Tonb founded on island 7.
+0820 English deliveries for 200.
+0840 Tactics -> Railroad. Spice to Babylonians for 480. Hides to York for 260. Milan founded. T3L2S5
+0860 Railroad -> Industrialization -> Amphibious Warfare. Gave railroad to all rivals but English because they are the only ones building a wonder and could switch to Darwin.
+0880 Barbarian dragoons land in the forests near Abadan. Amphibious Warfare -> Corporation.
+0900 Corporation -> Steel. Cavalry kills barbarian dragoon. Hides to York for 74, 356, 300. Domestic deliveries for 132, 110, 54, 68, 116. T2L2S6
+0920 Steel -> Genetic Engineering -> Refining. Barbarian dragoon bribed for 102g and used to kill the third and last dragoon. Beads to Mongol Nishapur for 184.
+0940 Refining -> Combustion. Salt to Leipzig for 100. Domestic deliveries for 246. Hides to York for 260, 300, 252.
+0960 Combustion -> Automobile -> Mass Production. Domestic deliveries for . Hides to York for 2x300, 252. T3L2S5
+0980 Mass Production -> Machine Tools. Cloth to Hastings for 400. Domestic deliveries for 104. T2L2S6
+1000 Machine Tools -> Electronics -> Mini. Silver to Berlin for 200. T4L2S4

Status at +1000
Population: 21.5M; Cities: 41 Techs: 64 Government: Democracy
Gold: 11; Cost: 186; Trade routes: 65D33F;
Ancient Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Copernicus, King Richard, Magellan
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Newton, Bach
Units: 26 engineers, 22 riflemen, 4 cavalry, 6 transports, 4 diplomats, 13 vans
Footprint: 28 cities in mainland; 5 in 6 (England); 2 in each of 2 and 3; 1 in each of 4, 5, 7, 8
Goals: A few more preplanned cities; Mini and Computers; Cure, SETI, Hoover?; Space race
Babylonian: 2 cities, 29 techs;
German: 3 cities, 29 techs; Pyramids; war with Mongols
English: 5 cities, 29 techs; Great Library
Mongol: 4 cities, 63 techs; war with Germans
Mar 21, 2011
So, the next page in my book. Ali seems to have had a similar goal eventually and I see that early hut luck was definitely on my side. It seems that I was able to carry that lead over until the end.
And Grigor, maybe you would have gotten that XXX-landing (=before 1000) if you had kept your key civ alive. I do not see that much differences in our games, except that I also kept germans alive as research assistant and trading partner (I delivered a hides van from Eureka to Hamburg, bonussed with a station city (Venedig), so it would be sticky and easier allow free commodities later when hides were no longer available, but it disappeared sometime, not sure when or why)

My log until 520 AD (didn't have a save from 500 AD, this is not the end-of-turn situation):

20 Nomads from polar hut
40 Chem->Gravity (this was a tough choice about losing the 10s slot or high trade payouts, we will reduce science to store more cheap vans and then go for feudalism->Theology, AIs are working on feudalism, maybe they discover it by then); bribe back Leon 104g, delivery 84; Bergen founded
(Barb legions outside London, with their trireme right in our chain)
60 Eureka is out of hides-supply :(, well we knew this day would come; 150g for barb leader near Babylon; deliveries 186, 40, 498; Bergen founded; black hats cause celebrations
(English develop Alphabet and fight off barbs, trireme disappears)
80 Grav.->Feudal.; deliveries 384
100 Venedig founded; deliveries 132, 288; Mailand founded; Another commodity shift in Eureka; goodbye warriors
120 Feud.->Theology; Invention from polar hut; deliveries 32, 368(should have delivered before popping that hut) ; Gent founded
140 Theo-Navigation>; Copernicus built (Could have done a lot earlier, but hides vans seemed more important); Deliveries 210, 195
160 Nav.->Physics(936) (to be followed by Gunp.->Expl.); Bach completed
180 deliveries 152, 204; Pisa founded
200 Phys.->Gunpowder(960); deliveries 105, 164; Dublin, Toronto founded
220 Leonardo built; Delivery 291
240 Gunp.->Magnetism (delay explosives because group 2 will be blocked next); deliveries 436, 157
260 Mag->Explosives; Deliveries 212, 38
280 Expl.->Democracy(946); Newton College; deliveries 136, 176, 325
300 Demo(revolt)->Steam; choose Monarchy, get 75g tribute from Babylon, 175 from Mongols, 125 from Germany, 75 from England; switch to Demo; deliveries 224, 236, 115; Not really set for celebrations right now, set Lux to 0 and every city is content
320 Steam->Railroad; deliv. 484, 288, 188; Melbourne founded
340 RR->Metallurgy->(triggered by Eureka->zoom to Madrid to complete Darwin)->Industry->Corporation->Electricity; del. 608, 255, 204, 69; enough gold for 100% science
(England GL)
360 Electr.->Refining->Steel; deliv. 152, 264, 232, 188, 140, 260
380 Steel->Combustion->Genetic Eng.; Oslo founded; 220, 235, 190, 104, 176, 236
400 Genetic->Auto->Electronics; Cure for Cancer built; Time to cut down science and built superhighways, still too early for massive celebrations; 188, 212, 232
420 Electr.->Mass Prod.; 52, 80, 276, 300, 232, 360, 342; can get another 2 a/t with 90% science
440 MassP->Refrig.->Conscription; 162, 105, 294, 315, 192, 812; Now 80% science is enough
460 Conscr.->Atomic (Not discovered, ouch); 318; T6S0L4 for some turns of celebration
480 Atomic->Chivalry(goodbye 20s-slot); 588, 1040, 294
500 Chiv->Leadership; 312, 144, 220, 240, 375, 602, 472
520 Leader->Tactics; 652, 52, 342, 408, 456, 264, 60, 770

Stats at 520 AD:
pop.: 13.5M; Cities: 49; techs: 61; gold: 2720; Gov.: Dem; wonders: HG, Pyr, Colossus, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Leonardo, Bach, Newton, Darwin, Cure; TR: 16D/58F
units: 30 Engineer, 25 musceteer, 2 horse, 1 crusader, 1 explorer, 1 cannon, 10 boat, 23 vans
Goals: Keep growing until Eureka is maxed out, then maybe back to 2a/t, start storing vans for spaceship


Insert something here
Nov 15, 2010
I don&#8217;t have a whole lot of experience playing EC on small maps like these, but playing on Emperor should help. I will probably rush Monarchy as usual, but Polytheism will be my second priority for Elephants and Crusaders. MPE would be useful, but the map is small so I won&#8217;t go for it unless needed (can still use the wonder trick) I&#8217;m probably going to go for Hanging Gardens as my only WoW if I don&#8217;t meet someone early.

4000 BC: Build Madrid on starter spot. Alphabet started
3750 BC: Horsemen from hut.
3500 BC: Warrior Code from hut.
3450 BC: Berlin found. They are Supreme. Peace accepted. Trade Warrior Code for Alphabet.
3400 BC: Start researching BW. Barb from hut: kill it and get Veteran status. If only Berlin wasn&#8217;t on a river&#8230; but they didn&#8217;t have BW either. Maybe a sneak attack will work.
3100 BC: BW > Code of Laws. Seville from hut. Sneak attack kills a German warrior defending Berlin.
Interturn: Vet Horsie on river survives a counterattack.
3050 BC: Sack Berlin for 8 gold and Map Making. THEY ARE NOT DEAD YET. Rush 6 shields in Madrid.
3000 BC: Run into German Warrior. War Continued despite offers for a cease-fire.
Interturn: Horsie survives attack from Warrior.
2900 BC: Horsie runs into Leipzig, survives attack from Warrior. Leipzig conquered for 20g and Pottery. Germans destroyed by Spanish&#8230; but there is a Purple horseman at the gates! Trade Warrior Code for Cerem Burial and Pottery for HBR. Peace.
2850 BC: Hut near Seville spawns Barbs! Oh crap.
2750 BC: Rush Phalanx in Seville. Leipzig has irrigation nearby. Mongol irrigation maybe?
2700 BC: Madrid Settler. Another warrior will be built for exploration.
2600 BC: Fortified Phalanx on a hill takes care of the barb Horseman near Seville.
2450 BC: Toledo built at (37, 33). Madrid Warrior, starts HG.
2350 BC: Leipzig Phalanx, horseman will explore again. Bowmen in a hut near Madrid.
2100 BC: Code of Laws > Polytheism (Monarchy not available) Cordoue from hut. That&#8217;s five cities: the riot factor is soon. Instead of Settlers I will be building early Triremes.
2050 BC: 50g from hut.

Status at 1950 BC:
Cities: 5 Techs: 8 (currently researching Polytheism: 15 turns per tech. Not good) Units: 8 Government: Despotism
Germans: Wiped out
Mongols: Peace, no embassy
Everyone else we haven&#8217;t met yet.

(Edit: I see no reason for a new post when the next 20 turns were so uneventful)

1750 BC: Spot Mongol Horsemen near hut.
1700 BC: Seville builds first Trireme.
1600 BC: Leipzig builds Trireme. Madrid size 3: 35 turns for HG.
1550 BC: Horsie finds Babylonian city of Nineva. Peace. Trade Pottery for Masonry: dammit, I was hoping Monarchy. Gift Alphabet and Code of Laws to Mongols to reduce tech costs. The Leipzig ocean was a lake&#8230; damnit. Legion from hut.
1450 BC: Toledo settlers.
1400 BC: Leipzig trireme disbanded
1350 BC: 50g from hut.
1250 BC: Leipzig builds Settlers, starts Barracks. Looks like the Mongols are to the NW of Leipzig. Trireme spots Orange horseman, but decide to wait until selecting Monarchy to hail.
1200 BC: Polytheism > Monarchy. Meet Icy English: give MM for peace. Give Cerem Burial and Pottery for maps&#8230; but they refuse.
Interturn: Babs start Pyramids.
1150 BC: Rush Barracks in Leipzig.
Interturn: Warning by Mongol and Babs to leave cities.
1100 BC: I&#8217;m kinda feeling it after killing the Germans so early, so I try another sneak attack: kill off Warrior easily. Salamanque built. Offshore hut grants the city of Valencia, but it&#8217;s near an English horseman.
1050 BC: Babylon taken for 10g and Myscitism. Pyramids are not stopped. I should NOT have rushed that barrack in Leipzig, I&#8217;m severely hurting for gold and the city is connected with roads. 25g tribute from Mongols.
1000 BC: Rush a Phalanx in Babylon for 47g. Building HG probably was a mistake, but too late to quit now.

Cities: 8 Gold: 54 Techs: 11 (currently researching Monarchy. 16 turns&#8230; the conquered German advances delayed it by a bunch but #worth) Units: 13 Government: Still Despotism
Germans: Dead
English: Peace, no embassy
Mongols: Peace, no embassy
Babs: War, no embassy

Ali Ardavan

Retired Moderator
May 29, 2002
Michigan, USA
+1020 Barbarian dragoons kill the rifleman defending Bilbao and take the city. Lost an engineer. Cure for Cancer built. T1L3S6. Izeh founded near London.
+1040 Rifleman on hilltop survives barbarian dragoon. Mini -> Computers -> Recycling. Gems to barbarian Bilbao for 62. Domestic deliveries for 609, 66, 240, 130, 146. Hides to York for 252. Bilbao bribed back for 260g. Lost 3 citizens and 3 structures, gained two dragoons. Calatrava founded.
+1060 Recycling -> Fundamentalism -> Mobile Warfare. Hides to York for 360, 74. Domestic gold for 740. T3L3S4
+1080 Mobile Warfare -> Robotics. Gold to Hamburg for 216.
+1100 Robotics -> Nuclear Fission. Deliveries to Leipzig for 180, 168.
+1120 Nuclear Fission -> Nuclear Power -> Laser. Adam Smith built. Domestic deliveries for 212, 357. Wine to Nottingham for 165. Hides to York for 272, 252. Hoveizeh and Manchester founded. T4L3S3
+1140 Laser -> Communism. Domestic deliveries for 166. Beads to Mongols for 116. T5L3S2
+1160 Communism -> Guerrilla warfare. Domestic deliveries for 560, 352, 188. T3L3S4
+1180 English build Liberty. Guerrilla warfare -> Espionage -> Labor Union. Domestic deliveries for 524, 777. Hides to York for 412. T6L3S1
+1200 Labor Union -> Flight. Last Hides to York for 412; it no longer demands Hides. Silk to London for 330. Undemanded Hides to London for 140. T4L3S3
+1220 Hoover dam built. Flight -> Radio. Domestic deliveries for 198.
+1240 Radio -> Advanced Flight. German embassy established. Domestic deliveries for 138, 50, 455, 263. Spice to Karakorum for 120.
+1260 Advanced Flight -> Rocketry. Domestic deliveries for 144, 371.
+1280 First airport built. Rocketry -> Combined Arms. English embassy established. Domestic deliveries for 336.
+1300 SETI built. Combined Arms -> Space Flight. Domestic deliveries for 78. Gold to Ur for 98. Mongol embassy established. Gems to English Nottingham for 232. Derry founded. T3L3S4
+1320 Space Flight -> Environmentalism. English declare war rather than move troops close to Derry. Silk to London for 120.
+1340 English steal Space Flight from Derry. Environmentalism -> Plastics. Seville maxes out at size 37. Cloth to Canterbury for 645. 2 English units killed.
+1360 English Frigate kills an Engineer. Plastics -> Superconductor -> Stealth. Apollo built. English chariot bribed for 243g. Tank kills single defender of Nottingham. Chariot takes the city for 211g and Great Library. Domestic deliveries for 588, 343. Chariot disbanded.
+1380 Stealth -> Fusion Power. Space race starts. Domestic deliveries for 230.
+1400 Senate hands peace to English who have a unit by two of my cities in their homeland. Fusion Power -> Future Tech 1. Domestic deliveries for 296, 94.
+1420 English steal Fusion Power; I declare war. Future Tech 1 -> 2 -> 3. Domestic deliveries for 588. Silk to Berlin for 196. Gold to Ur for 234. Canterbury bribed for 584g. Spy turned vet. Got 196g, marketplace, and catapult. Babylonian embassy established.
+1440 Future Tech 3 -> 4. Domestic deliveries for 240, 294.
+1460 Future Tech 4 -> 5. Domestic deliveries for 285. Mongols declare war rather than move their artillery. Tank kills single defender of Bokhara. City is taken for 260g and Colosseum. Senate hands peace to Mongols. Stealth fighter kills 2 English units.
+1480 Spy foils a Mongol espionage attempt. Future Tech 5 -> 6. Mongols declare war again rather than move troops. Mongol diplomat killed. Stealth Fighter renders Hastings defenseless. Accepted English offer of 950g for peace.
+1500 English join the space race. Future Tech 6 -> 7 -> 8. Domestic deliveries for 380. Mongol destroyer sunk. Babylonians declare war rather than move troops. 5 Babylonian units killed. T7L3S0

Status at +1500
Population: 64.7M; Cities: 49 Techs: All+7FT Government: Democracy
Gold: 1113; Cost: 335; Trade routes: 10 short of full;
Ancient Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Great Library
Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Shakespeare, Copernicus, King Richard, Magellan
Industrial Wonders: Leo, Newton, Bach, Adam Smith
Modern Wonders: Cure, Hoover, SETI, Apollo
Units: 28 engineers, 1 partisan, 21 riflemen, 4 cavalry, 1 tank, 2 stealth fighters, 6 transports, 3 diplomats, 3 spies, 7 vans
Footprint: 30 cities in mainland; 11 in 6 (England); 2 in each of 2 and 3; 1 in each of 4, 5, 7, 8
Goals: Launch in two turns
Babylonian: 2 cities, 34 techs; war with me
German: 4 cities, 32 techs; Pyramids; war with Mongols and English
English: 3 cities, 36 techs; Statue of Liberty; war with Germans
Mongol: 3 cities, 70 techs; war with Germans and I

Ali Ardavan

Retired Moderator
May 29, 2002
Michigan, USA
I finally got a chance to read this whole thread in detail. My personal life has been too busy lately and prevented me from playing Civ2 and reading CFC as much as I want to.

I am glad so many are participating. Welcome back Jokemaster. Wondering where are the regulars like Inkerman and haleewud. I was hoping Magic would be able to play this one as well.

This was an enjoyable game throughout. Thanks again Peaster for suggesting it.

I thought I had excellent hut luck with an advanced tribe founding Seville in -3600 till I started reading the logs and realized that comparatively my hut luck was below average given that I had only two advanced tribes (the second one no in -650) and only one nomad in 260.

I went for landing from the beginning and was hoping to launch before 1500 but could not pull it off before 1520. I had no major disasters and things went pretty much according to plan. Like others I did lose cities to barbarians: my 7th city in -1600 and another in +1020. Both were bribed back later.

I too relied on Hides deliveries to York till they dryed up. I kept all rivals for trade but in retrospect that was not a great idea. Mongols and Germans offered little trade opportunities. Post launch when they all got nasty I wiped out Babylonians and Germans and reduced Mongols to a single city.

Ali Ardavan

Retired Moderator
May 29, 2002
Michigan, USA
Since obviously I am no contender for the green, here is the final part of my log.

+1510 Mongols kill an Engineer. Accepted Babylonian offer of 500g for peace. Stealth fighter kills a Mongol diplomat and fighter plane. Domestic deliveries for 187, 214, 176. T3L3S4
+1520 Future Tech 8 -> 9. Full space ship launched. Domestic deliveries for 480.
+1521 Mongols sink an empty carrier. Future Tech 9 -> 10. Ashur founded near Babylon. Stealth fighter kills 4 Mongol units and Samarkand is taken for 303g. Another stealth fighter kills 3 defenders of Karakorum and the city is taken for 230g and marketplace. Barbarian partisan bribed for 102g.
+1522 Future Tech 10 -> 11. 2 Mongol units killed. Domestic deliveries for 467. Behbahan founded.
+1523 Future Tech 11 -> 12 -> 13. Dye to Leipzig for 139.
+1524 Eiffel built. Future Tech 13 -> 14. Babylonians declare war. Babylonian catapult killed. Domestic deliveries for 155, 82. Cloth to Nishapur for 200. T2L3S5
+1525 UN built. Future Tech 14 -> 15. Accepted English/German/Mongol offer of 350g/350g/400g for peace. Tech bombed Mongols. Cloth to Konigsberg for 300.
+1526 English steal Plastics I declare war. Future Tech 15 -> 16. Domestic deliveries for 196. Two Babylonian units killed.
+1527 Great Wall and SunTzu built. Future Tech 16 -> 17 -> 18. Accepted English offer of 100g for peace. Silver to Ur for 200. Walked into defenseless Babylon and took the city for 94g and marketplace. Ur bribed for 387g. Lost Spy. Got 50g, colosseum, 2 setters, and 2 soldiers. Babylonian civilization destroyed. Domestic deliveries for 128, 132.
+1528 Lighthouse built. Future Tech 18 -> 19. Germans declare war rather than move troops. Stealth fighter kills 4 defenders of Berlin. 2 German units killed. Berlin is taken for Pyramids and 31g. Hamburg is bribed for 374g. Spy turned vet. Got 21g, 2 structures, boat, settler, and 3 soldiers. Domestic deliveries for 240, 114, 246, 22. English and Mongols declare war rather than move troops.
+1529 Mongols Steal Fusion Power. Future Tech 19 -> 20 -> 21. Accepted Mongol/English offer of 50g/100g for peace. Senate hands peace to Germans. Domestic deliveries for 262, 252. Deliveries to English for 257, 336. Nineveh and Xotan founded. T0L3S7
+1530 Germans steal Fusion Power; I declare war. Oracle, Suffrage, Darwin, and Manhattan built. Future Tech 21 -> 22 -> 23 -> 24 . Stealth fighter kills all defenders of Leipzig and the city is taken for 26g. It moves on to kill the single defender of Konigsberg which is then razed and rebuilt. German civilization destroyed. Andimeshk, Munich, and Endgame1 founded. T0L10S0
Mar 21, 2011
I think I can reveal my final part as well. Enjoy! :D

Stats at 520 AD:
pop.: 13.5M; Cities: 49; techs: 61; gold: 2720; Gov.: Dem; wonders: HG, Pyr, Colossus, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Leonardo, Bach, Newton, Darwin, Cure; TR: 16D/58F
units: 30 Engineer, 25 musceteer, 2 horse, 1 crusader, 1 explorer, 1 cannon, 10 boat, 23 vans
Goals: Keep growing until Eureka is maxed out, then maybe back to 2a/t, start storing vans for spaceship

540 Tactics->Nucl Fission(1575); 736, 1176, 1167; T0S7L3 still lets most cities celebrate
560 NFiss->Mach. Tools->Miniaturization; 540, 486, 486; Do we need SETI or should we rather preserve those resources for our spaceship?
580 Mini->Computers->Nucl.Power(this means, we will have to research an off-path-tech, it is still worth delaying flight); 186, 1161, 348, 296, 770
600 NPower->Flight; 929, 516, 264, 270
620 Flight->Laser(1794); 330, 314, 510, 320, 328
640 Laser->Radio(1960); so, 7 techs to go(+some off-paths), unable to do 2 at once without SETI, will keep doing 1 until fusion and save everything for spaceship, hopefully get it done in 10 turns; 345, 576, 616, 332, 336
660 Radio->Adv. Flight(1988); Eureka maxed out at size 35; 440, 368, 432, 414, 230, 480
680 Adv. Flight->Rocketry(2016); 378, 676, 576, 416, 252, 440, 840, 212
(Barbs destroy our outpost Babelport)
700 Rocket->Recycling(2044); 344, 456, 264, 164, 256, 336, 336, 336, 344; at the end of turn we have 92 vans + 13k gold=>deficite of only 5761, I guess we can speed up a little
720 Recycl.->Space(2072); SETI built; 328, 380, 560, 192, 612, 252, 440, 144(And now I realize Ellipi is out of hides demand)
740 Space->plastics->Supercond.(2204); Apollo built; 225, 694, 400, 445, 601, 387
760 Superc.->Amph.Warf.->Fusion(2262); ship 14-1-0-0-0-0; 360, 350, 331, 470, 338, 296, 248
780 Fusion->FT1->Communism; ship 19-3-2-2-2-2; 304, 411, 784, 610, 212, 364*3, 264, 264; 3400 gold left and short of some parts...could squeeze out our civ and launch next turn, but rather do another turn and keep the civ healthy, there is still a life after launch
800 Commy->FT2(2511); ship 37-6-5-4-4-4; 835, 315, 690
820 FT2->FT3->Espionage; :band: Here the ship sailed out into the blue and sunny morn, the sweetest sight ever seen...:band:, arrival scheduled for 831; 416, 700, 274, 350, 464, 464
821 Esp.->FT4->Did not discover??? Why?; We have done 2693 (-1 for trigger) beakers, cost was 2688...obviously the box was not full; 243, 432, 288; cut down science to 1a/t for more lux
(Barbs march into empty Toronto)
822 FT4->Mob.Warf. (decided to take over Babylon and Germany); Adam Smith built; Bribe Toronto back for 239; 260, 272, 660, 198, 696, 264, 360
823 Mob->Robotics; 360, 236, 508, 610, 467,
824 Rob.->FT5; 408, 420, 372, 372, 380, 980
825 FT5->FT6; 688, 354, 70, 356, 342, 747; Ready to attack Babylon in 1 turn (full takeover in 2 turns, let's hope they give us a reason)
(Mongols steal plastics, but they are not on the menu card; Babyls steal Fusion, we declare war, they move some units around but do not attack)
826 FT6->Comb. weapons; 352, 328, 420, 360, 360; time for war: howitzer kills legion in Babylon and takes the city (119+SoL), bribe Akkad 473(85), Niniveh 514(82), Ashur 360(51), Ellipi 467(59), Ur 391(42), Babylonians destroyed
(Germans steal plastics, we declare war, one turn later would have been better, but ok, no immediate attacks)
827 Combined->FT7; Hoover Dam built; kill 2 warriors in Berlin, take the city 271, bribe Leipzig 554(184), bribe Hamburg 390(126), Germany defeated; 784, 450, 907, 844
828 FT7->FT8->Environment; subvert Hastings 2*494 (178+GL); 500, 333, 377, 610, 395, 216, 476
829 Env.->FT9; 258, 207, 240, 448, 444, 163, 384, 384, 315, 850, 659, 816; all vans delivered or put into wonders
830 FT9->FT10->Fundy; Oracle, Magellan, Marco Polo, LH, Sun Tzu, GW, Manhattan, WS, Eiffel Tower, UN, KRC built, Uff! All engineers settled (except for one I forgot to release from work), only 235g and no van left, I guess that was an efficient end-turn
831 Alpha Centauri, there we are
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