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GOTM 171 spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by lasingularidad, Nov 20, 2015.

  1. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

    Nov 11, 2015
    After a conquest played for my first GOTM I wanted to try to land a space ship, which I haven't done for long time ago now. I realize this is probably not the best game to do so as we all expect the land to be not so and as all AI are probably all on the main island. But that was my challenge. I don't think this will be competitive for GOTM score (which I am not anyways). I might try highest score with a late landing though.

    Spoiler :
    We also discover that there are only 4 and not 6 AI and that the purple is missing.

    Here is my log till 1000BC

    -3950 hut: horseback riding
    -3900 Beijing(1) south of river, -> Code of laws. Tax 4.0.6
    -3850 Shanghai(2) north of river, near whales
    -3650 Code of laws -> Map making, 2 warriors
    -3550 hut: archer(Beijing)
    -3500 met receptive Japanese
    -3050 Shanghai settler: go for north river
    -3000 met French, found Paris

    Stats at 3000BC:
    pop.: 40k; Cities: 2; Techs: 4; Gold: 26; Gov.: desp.; Wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 settler (2 in prod.), 1 archer, 2 warriors
    Goals: monarchy; expand; explore; find all 7 civs and huts before they all go

    Japanese: no embassy, peace, receptive
    French: no embassy, peace, neutral

    -2900 Ceremonial Burning -> Monarchy; Canton(3) oops, so close to Japs
    -2750 Nankin(4) on west buffalo
    -2650 We number 1. wealthiest. Hut: nomads (far on south map)
    -2600 hut (near nice large north rivers): empty, hut near paris: Non-archer
    -2550 Monarchy -> Bronze working
    -2500 Revolution
    -2450 New govt: monarchy. Met Egyptian, peace. Found Thebes. Met Russian, get bronze working, 50g tribute. Nomad settles in Tsingtao(5) on a river south
    -2250 hut: charriot(Tsingtao)
    -2000 hut: horsemen
    -2150 Xinjian(5)
    -2100 Currency -> Trade. 100k pop.

    Stats at 2000BC:
    pop.: 100k; Cities: 6; Techs: 8; Gold: 59; Gov.: mon.; Wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 3 settler (5 in prod.), 2 archer, 5 warriors, 1 horsemen, 1 chariot
    Goals: expand; finish explorartion; find remaining 3 civ, after trade exchange techs. Wonders?

    Russians: no embassy, peace, uncooperative
    Japanese: no embassy, peace, receptive
    French: no embassy, peace, neutral
    Egyptians: no embassy, peace, neutral

    -1900 Chengdu(7) on nice lonely north rivers
    -1850 French want alliance against Egyptians. Declined. Maps starts to
    be crowded, AI settler everywhere. For the moment I control most good
    spots, but I should be prepared for agressivness. Hangchow(8) on bad
    plain only spot, but fill space.
    -1800 Tientsin(9) on single buffalo spot (prod city)
    -1750 Trade -> Pottery. Tatung(10) near Japanese corn. Should start
    defending cities...; hut: 50g; Speak with French to get Pottery (and
    Mysticism), give techs, share maps. They only have Paris, but nice
    spots over there for new cities. Wondering if someone has
    writing. Don't know if ME is worth. But need to find purple quickly.
    -1600 Try new strategy, gift demanded tech to civs each turn. So I
    did. Need embassies. Expansion is of first importance to fill the

    -1550 25g French tribute. Nothing from Russian. Cannot ask other as I
    don't want tech.
    -1450 Writing -> Literacy. Tax 7.0.3. Hut: warrior code. Give tech to Egypti an and get maps. Only one city. But where are the other civs?
    -1400 Macao(11) on south hills.
    -1350 Hut on the north pole: barbarian horse destroyed by mine.
    -1250 50g tribute from French.
    -1200 Anyang(12) on northen river near fishes.
    -1150 Shantung(13)
    -1100 Chinan(14); Kaifeng(15)

    I should have put my capital in (21,17) which is the best spot so far for a SSC. I should also have built coastal cities before to be able to use sea speed.

    Stats at 1000BC:
    pop.: 250k; Cities: 15; Techs: 14; Gold: 11; Gov.: mon.; Wonders: HG; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 5 settler, 2 archer, 5 warriors, 1 horsemen, 1 chariot, 1 caravan
    Goals: finish expansion (not many more sites); start conquest - choose what to keep for trade; find SSC spot;

    Russians: no embassy, peace, cordial
    Japanese: no embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    French: no embassy, peace, cordial
    Egyptians: no embassy, peace, enthusiastic
  2. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Hello! Lasingularidad, happy to see your post here so i know i am not the only one playing this gotm :).

    Haven't played in at least 4 years but felt the strong desire and the release and so here i am :). Not sure what i am planning to do here, whether Space or otherwise, but i did decide that i felt to build a flourishing Republic and eventual Democracy rather than going with early conquest. My experience with the game which is quite extensive has been primarily against other humans. My game is: Multi Gold hostile ai version :).

    I felt my start was quite decent and with moderate hut luck, not as excellent as it could have been in the nomad, tribe and large gold department, and included a horse, chariot and archer, but certainly not poor. I didn't take the best notes especially in the beginning because i was excited to play and didn't think to do so :). But i do recall getting pretty lucky with an early Monarchy. When forced to choose an off path tech, i chose Bronze and within a turn or two i got it in a hut allowing me to choose Monarchy next. I am not certain, but it may have been 3250 (and maybe even 3450) that i completed Monarchy and stepped into it. My capital was founded in the river at 22/28 and number 2 was planted in the same river at 19/17.

    One of the luckier things i had going for me with the early horse i picked up in a hut was exploring nearby to find the best city sites and finding an empty size 1 Kyoto about 6 steps from my capital, stepping into it, destroying the Japanese and getting this would be rival out of the way of my plans to expand as fast and as undefended as possible in a key area of early expansion possibilities which includes a 3 city river. To the best of my knowledge in piecing things back together, my first tribe was my 8th city. I believe my first (or only) nomad became my 9th city though it is possible i found another nomad earlier. If i should end up playing another gotm, i'll make a point of taking better notes next time as i think this would be part of the fun and make for better comparisons against the games of other players.

    In 1150bc i bulit the 28th city which triggered the first "first citizen anarchist" then the next turn in 1100bc, i made the mistake of building number 29 thinking "how bad could it possibly be?" which triggered 3 additional first citizen anarchists. Maybe i should have known that both would happen, but i was rusty from 4+ years away :). I also would have prioritized the building of HG slightly earlier, a wonder i will have shortly in 925bc, but got carried away with the momentum and fun of rushing more and more settlers :). Also in hindsight i would have allowed the settlers used to build cities 28 and 29 to build roads and irrigation instead until HG was built, but what's done is done. Researched Trade and pottery on my own with a 70% science rate before switching Tax rate to 70% Gold / 30% science. I had masonry, i believe from trading with (or possibly demanding tribute from) one of the ai's and Pyramids would be the 2nd wonder, to emerge in 850bc.

    In 1000bc we have the following scenario and summary:

    29 cities (2 too many), No wonders, No buildings, 4 caravans en route with the plan to build a 925bc HG, 4 settlers, 2 Triremes, 33 warriors, 5 horses, 1 chariot, 1 archer, 79 mfg, 48 gold/17 beakers/7 elvis. Population: 520,000. Citizens: 40. No caravans landed.

    13 Techs with Writing in progress, not sure of order: alphabet, code, ceremonial, bronze, Monarchy, Horseback, currency, Trade, Map Making, (warrior code), Pottery, Masonry, (mysticism). The two in parentheses were definitely not chosen or desired at the time they were obtained through whatever means - most likely through huts - while all others are highly favored and i am happy to have each of them.

    Upon completion of Map making, two (and only two) boats were built as a high priority and sent in opposite directions to uncover the whales and fish from the coastline in order to optimize the planning of new cities and by 1000bc the continent was nearly circumnavigated and 98% of the reachable map was uncovered.
  3. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Additional highlights...

    925BC: Hanging Gardens

    850BC: Pyramids


    Writing > Lit.

    Rushing 3 diplomats for embassies.

    Planning to box in both Egypt and Russia by building ore top cities surrounding them while also securing safe and convenient pathways through which trades can reach them.

    Starting barracks in 3 low-food-producing cities one each near each of the three ai civs. Planning to Keep Moscow, St. Pete's, Thebes and Memphis alive, but believing my civ will be best served overall by taking out Kiev and Paris, both of which are hindering the safe and unprotected expansion i desire near the ocean front.

    Deeply loving my new 5 shield mined coal at 20/20. :blush:

    750bc, established embassy with France. No techs, no Gold, 1 city, researching polytheism which i do not have.

    700bc: Established embassy with Egypt. No techs, 35 gold, 2 cities, researching Math which i don't have.

    650bc: Established embassy with Russia: No techs, 8 gold, 3 cities, researching Writing which i gifted to them.

    500bc Summary: 40 cities (largest is size 2), HG, Pyramids, No buildings

    Gov: Monarchy

    Units: 34 Settlers, 5 Caravans, 2 triremes, 32 Warriors, 5 Horses, 2 Diplomats, 1 Chariot, 1 Archer.

    MFG: 135 Mtons, 68 Gold Income / 32 Beakers, 77 Citizens, Pop 840,000.

    15 Techs including writing and literacy as the most recent with Philosophy in progress.


    350bc: Philosophy / Monotheism > The Republic. Almost sure i had picked up polytheism from Russia (or possibly France) while researching Philo, pleased that i did not have to research it myself.

    275bc: Michelangelos Chapel.

    50 Cities, 40 Settlers most of which are massively roading and irrigating grass and plains like a swarm of highly productive locusts in preparation for impending celebration growth. Irrigation of swamps and jungles will become a priority only once the easier and more cost effective projects are first completed as will be the case with most mines on hills, coal and grape being foremost.

    Major shift here in the cessation of Settler building so many cities can reach size 3 as fast as possible. Had i planned this better, i would have made this shift a bit earlier (but not by much). The next obvious urgent need is getting Seafaring so that many harbors can be built to provide a massive breakthrough in growth potential.

    250bc: Warriors disbanded inside cities this turn from a peak of about 33 to 11.

    225bc, Completed and stepped into oedo Republic ready to celebrate and grow several cities. 7 cities had to endure anarchy between the initiation of the revolution and the stepping into the new government, one of which lost a settler to insufficient shield support.

    Republic > Seafaring.

    So far with size 1 and 2 cities i have not felt there were any trades worthy of being prioritized (and so there have not been any) but many are to come in the not so distant future once the cities are size 5 or better.

    Nine size 3 cities are all set to celebrate and grow, most or all of which began celebrating a turn early while in Monarchy because most or all size 3 cities required an elvis anyway to avoid riot whether they had warriors or not. As a result, these pre-celebrated cities will be size 4 in 200bc.

    Prioritization of which cities are to reach size 3 next: Those which are the closest in terms of food storage and incoming food surplus with the ability to grow to at least size 4 and preferably all the way to size 8 and looking towards near future Harbors as an important part of this. Several settlers are getting re-supported to different cities to help optimize this plan. Many size 2 and a few size 1 cities will sacrificially hold back their own growth temporarily to allow others to reach celebration capacity first and will wait their turn to be likewise blessed :). It is also a fairly high priority for size 1s to become size 2s especially when they are very close to spilling over to allow the extra square to be worked before they embrace the noble task of supporting settlers. Once cities celebrate and reach their current size limit, most of them will shift into supporting settlers to allow as many other cities as possible to reach size 3 as fast as possible and to enjoy celebration growth for themselves. A very big factor in determining which cities will support settlers is the amount of food storage they have, a resource that is being leveraged for the overall well being of the civ with the goal of reaching the highest number of citizens possible at the earliest possible point.

    Many cities are set to caravan building and 15 others which were not heavily invested in unit building got changed over to the building of marketplaces in anticipation of switching to Harbors. Eventually i would anticipate having Harbors in about 70% of my cities.
  4. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    I’m not going to be home for very long. EC it is. EMPEROR level.

    4000 BC: Move Settler North, reveals a hut. Decide to not settle for a turn.

    3950 BC: Hut: 25g. Dammit, was hoping for a NONE unit. Beijing founded. This probably loses me the green star right here.

    3900 BC: Start researching Code of Laws.

    3850 BC: Shanghai built near a whale.

    3700 BC: Code of Laws > Ceremonial Burial. Seems like starting techs aren’t counted for the 0/1/2 tech groups. Need to trade something as Monarchy is in group 2. Warrior in Beijing.

    3550 BC: Hut: 50g. Find Kyoto: Trade Alphabet for Bronze Working. Mission accomplished! But they have BW, dang. Kyoto is on a river as well… that sucks. Peace.

    3350 BC: Hail French: Trade Alphabet for Ceremonial Burial, but refuse trading for Warrior Code. Peace. Start researching Monarchy.

    3200 BC: Hut is empty.

    3100 BC: Monarchy > Horseback Riding. REVOLUTION. Find city of Moscow. Peace, but I don’t want to trade them BW.

    3050 BC: Monarchy! T3L0S7. Trade Code of Laws for Warrior Code to the French.

    2950 BC: Hut: Nomads! Shanghai settlers.

    Interturn: Russian city destroyed by French. Moscow has been conquered.

    2750 BC: Trade Warrior Code for Currency to the Japs. Hut: Feudalism. Eh…

    2600 BC: Meet Egyptians: Trade Monarchy for Masonry. The terrain is NOT hospitable at all.

    2550 BC: Canton built, finally.

    Interturn: Roman civilization destroyed by French! Holy moly. That was a respawn.

    2400 BC: Nankin built. Tsingtao built. Start mining a coal square near Shanghai.

    2200 BC: HBR > Chivalry. Remember, I'm going for EC in this game, so might as well since I'm quite a few techs away from Polytheism.

    1950 BC: Hut 4 squares near Japanese Kyoto: settlers, lel.

    Status at 1950 BC:
    Government: Monarchy Cities: 5 Techs: 10 (currently researching Chivalry, 13 turns) Gold: 106 Income/Cost: 6 to 0 T3L0S7.
    Units: 3 Settlers, 5 Warriors, 4 Pikemen.
    Peace with Egypt/Japan/France. Russia and Rome wiped out by the French.
    Goals: Expand and explore. Start building Barracks in key cities. Research military techs.
  5. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Mar 21, 2011
    This was a quick one, just as planned: Not sure how far I should reveal my log...

    -4000 move north and west
    -3950 Horse from hut! Excellent!
    -3900 Peking founded @ 21,17
    -3850 Researching Laws; Horse runs into empty Kyoto...Raze the city (2g, no tech), Japanese destroyed
    -3650 Laws->Bronze
    -3600 Shanghai founded @15,15
    -3550 Empty hut
    -3500 50g from hut
    -3400 Bronze->Burial
    (Egyptian horse approaches ours, they demand bronze, no, war!)
    -3300 Don't want to attack horse since it is on mountain
    -3250 Attack that horse on hill, barely won & vet
    -3200 Hail Egypt, sign peace, they have pottery to trade, not now
    -3050 Burial->Monarchy(36)
    -2950 Canton founded
    -2850 Warrior runs into russian city of St. Petersburg, sign peace with Russia, get 50g tribute; french chariot is also there, peace with France, demand tribute, get WC, ouch! Cost is now 45
    -2800 Nanking founded
    -2750 50g from mountain hut
    -2650 Monarchy(revolt&est.)->Currency; 25g from Egypt
    -2500 I feel like currency was the wrong decision, should have headed for poly instead, wonders will probaby not be necessary

    Stats at 2500BC:
    pop.: 60k; Cities: 4; techs: 6; gold: 151; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 settler, 2 warrior, 1 horse
    Goals: Expand and explore, make plans for conquest
  6. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

    Nov 11, 2015
    My log till 1000AD. Don't know exactly what I am trying to do, but I am not doing it well… :)

    -950 Nigpo(16) on forest
    -900 Paoting(17); Yangchow(18). (6, 28) is maybe the best SSC spot?
    -825 Philosopy -> Republic -> Seafaring. Revolution: new govt: rep. Give rep to everybody
    -725 Seafaring -> Polytheism. Naples(19)
    -700 Issus(20) on north pole.
    -625 Polytheism -> Monotheism.
    -600 Supercita(21) founded (attempt to have a SSC); Cremona(22)
    -575 Shanghai builds pyramids; Cannae(23)
    -550 Capua(24)
    -525 Turin(25); Genoa(26) on north pole.
    -500 Monotheism -> Mathematics. Riot factor reached (all red). Now need Mikes. Tax: 8.0.2

    Stats at 500BC:
    pop.: 600k; Cities: 27; Techs: 20; Gold: 6; Gov.: rep.; Wonders: HG,PY; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 3 settler, 1 archer, 3 dips
    Goals: finish expansion (not many more sites, use poles); start conquest and/or pet cities for trade; build SSC wonders

    Russians: no embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    Japanese: embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    French: no embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    Egyptians: no embassy, peace, enthusiastic

    -450 Crete(27)
    -350 Tax 2.0.8
    -300 Mathematics -> Medecine. Mikes Chaptel built. Tax: 0.2.8.
    -225 Tax: 2.0.8. 90% of cities where size 2 but five grew up to size 5
    so it was worth to run WLTK a few turns. No I will build harbors.
    -200 Verona(28) on a lonely grassland surrounded by mountains
    -175 Medecine -> Construction.
    -150 Get Iron Working from Japs to give it to Russians
    -75 Construction -> Bridge Building
    -50 Salamis(29) on swamp near whales
    -25 Lisbon(30) near paris on wheet.

    Stats at 1AD:
    pop.: 1.41M; Cities: 30; Techs: 24; Gold: 138; Gov.: rep.; Wonders: HG,PY,Mikes; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 8 settler, 1 archer, 1 crusader, 3 triremes, 7 caravans
    Goals: build harbords and grow cities, expand on poles; build SSC wonders; try some trade before nav/inv;

    Russians: embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    Japanese: embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    French: embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    Egyptians: embassy, peace, enthusiastic

    40 Bridge Building -> The wheel (I waited for somebody to discoverit
    but no. AI research pace is really slow)
    60 Hamburg(31)
    120 The wheel -> Engineering
    140 Prague(32) another grassland surrounded by mountains
    180 My best city is Issus (size 8, fish and fur specials) on the North Pole :). Wine 96g.
    200 Engineering -> University (one or two more van deliveries before invetion)
    220 2M pop. Many riots, will need JS Bach, want to switch to demo asap. Wine 64g
    240 Wine from my SSC to Kyoto 48g. Trade is not worth. Tax: 0.6.4
    260 Harbord sold as I wasn't careful with costs. University ->
    Invention. Salzburg(33) on mountain but with 4 specials. Gems 144g
    300 Russians develop Astronomy. Supercita builds Shakespeare Theatre. Wine 100g. Tax: 1.8.1
    380 Supercita builds Colossus. 6.2M pop.
    400 Invention -> Astronomy. Get Astro from russians and gift them many
    things, update maps. No AI is building more cities as no more city spots.
    420 -> Sanitation. Bergen(34) north pole. Need temples, markets and JS Bach. Tax 1.5.4.
    440 Destroy Thebes and Egyptians which capital was too close to my SSC.
    500 Sanitation -> Democracy

    Stats at 500AD:
    pop.: 6.390M; Cities: 34; Techs: 32; Gold: 21; Gov.: rep.; Wonders: HG,PY,Mikes,Shake,Col; TR: 0D/4F
    units: 8 settler, 1 archer, 1 crusader, 3 triremes, 7 caravans
    Goals: Switch to demo + JSBach; finish SSC, expand on poles; conquer
    french then japs, then russian. Hope for settler respawn.

    Russians: embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    Japanese: embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    French: embassy, peace, enthusiastic
    Egyptians: destroyed, don't know yet about possible respawn

    520 Venice(35) for two remaining unused tiles.
    540 Barbarians next to large undefended city (gold < 50), but trireme with crusader just next to it: lucky.
    600 Milan(36) north pole.
    640 Democracy -> Feudalism. Tax 2.2.6 + about one elvis per city.
    680 Russian allow me to declare war to French. Paris and French
    destroyed. Revolution. Our reputation is now questionable. Ghent(37) north pole.
    700 New govt: demo. Tax: 1.2.7, a few elvis.
    740 Pisa(38) north pole.
    780 Chemistry -> Theology; Dublin(39)
    820 Marco Polo Embassy (no respawns). Theology -> Gunpowder. Toronto(40) where Egyptians where.
    840 Supercita builds Copernicus. Beiijin builds JS Bach. Tax 1.0.9, no more Elvis needed.
    860 Gunpowder -> Metalurgy
    880 Barb near to size 8 empty cities, rush dips.
    900 Metalurgy -> Explosives
    920 Revolution. Tribute from russians 25g. Capture Kyoto(41),
    180g. Japanese destroyed. Apparently no respawn. Subvert
    940 Go back to demo. Russians are now Hostile and our reputation is
    poor, they want gunpowder but I won't gift them that.
    960 Explosives -> Economics

    Stats at 1000AD:
    pop.: 7.51M; Cities: 43; Techs: 39; Gold: 152; Gov.: demo.; Wonders: HG,PY,Mikes,Colossus,MPE,Shakespear,Copernicus,JSBach; TR: 0D/4F
    units: 23 settler, 1 archer, 1 phallanx, 3 crusader, 3 triremes, 3 dips, 6 caravans
    Goals: take moscow and surround last russian city, then go towards spaceship, wonders and population.

    Russians: embassy, peace, hostile
  7. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    I'll post the second part of my log to clue in the Major where he can stop posting (pretty sure he finished ahead of me since he got the horse pop off the 1st hut)

    1900 BC: Find city of Memphis near my capital&#8230; dangit, that&#8217;s a settling spot gone. Shanghai Barracks built, city builds Archers now.
    1850 BC: Xinjian built near Kyoto.
    1750 BC: Hut: 50g.
    1700 BC: Canton Barracks. There&#8217;a bug that gives me no notification&#8230; nevermind, option was unchecked. Weird. First Vet archer unit built in Shanghai, will attack the Japanese first.
    1550 BC: Chivalry > Polytheism.
    1500 BC: Find Jap city of Osaka. Give 3 techs to Egyptians, but no maps&#8230; guess I really need Classic (or the AI patch, remember I played that game 2months ago). Sucks to be me.
    1350 BC: French start Pyramids.
    1300 BC: Chengdu built. Waiting on another Vet Knight to attack Japs.
    Interturn: Nevermind! The Japs strike first, lose an archer.
    1200 BC: Hail French: war after no troop withdrawal. Lucky I have a knight ready. Kill 2 Horsemen near Nankin. Find the city of Thèbes. T7L0S3.
    1150 BC: Raze city of Osaka after killing Archer.
    Interturn: Various combats. Pikemen in Chengdu holds to a French bowmen attack, but I lose an archer near Kyoto to a horseman.
    950 BC: Lose almost all my army killing a Pikemen and a Phalanx in Kyoto. Still a settler nearby&#8230; Find city of Paris.

    Status at 950 BC:
    Government: Monarchy Cities: 7 Techs: 11 (currently researching Chivalry, 13 turns) Gold: 40 Income/Cost: 15 to 2 T7L0S3.
    Units: 1 Settler, 4 Warriors, 1 Archer, 8 Pikemen, 4 Knights.
    Peace with Egypt, war with Japan/France. Russia and Rome wiped out by the French.
    Goals: Kill the damn Japs. And locate the French.

    (Side note: I really need to start using ICS in these kinds of games. Zero settling spots available whatsoever.)

    (Do not open if you are going for EC and not done. Side note of misc. info.)
    Spoiler :
    I've replayed this GOTM once more for funsies, this time reloading until I get a horseman from the first hut... finished 36 turns earlier than in my official GOTM submission. No respawns, but... yeaaah. I'll bow to Major for this one.
  8. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Mar 21, 2011
    Don't worry, on a map like this, there is no way to do well on a spaceship game! ;)
    And if there was, it still wouldn't feel well.
  9. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Jan 14, 2011
    As I was fortunate to get a chariot from the first hut, unlike Jokemaster, my early game has gone quite like that of Major Advantage. At 2500BC I have the same number of cities and one settler, and probably opponents of the same number and strength. I have a few more army units, but my comments from that time (in the log below) suggest that is not very important, except perhaps that I find exploring easier. I do have some extra techs, but that may play either way - perhaps it's a disadvantage as it restricts how quickly I can get new ones that are needed.

    4000- Found Beijing. Start warrior. Other settler north - oh, brings hut into view. Start on CoL.
    3950- Hut: chariot, it goes along river. At end, chariot is "nr Kyoto".
    3900- Found Shanghai.
    3850- Following river, chariot runs into Kyoto, taking 2g, and taking Japan out.
    Nearest city suggests nobody else near chariot.
    3800- Both our cities are in top-5.
    3750- disc CoL -> CB. Warrior from Beijing goes south.
    3700- Chariot, going east, finds another river system. So too warrior going south.
    Shanghai warrior goes east.
    3650- Chariot, now nr Paris, and nr top of world, on ocean, pops hut: HBR.
    3600- Should we pop more huts? Decide no.
    3500- Moscow and Thebes are size =2.

    Lots of mountains.

    3450- Beijing = size 2. Shanghai settlers now "nr Moscow".
    3400- ...and the Beijing settler is "nr Thebes".
    3300- disc CB -> Mon. Cost will be 36. Chariot meets French(3) warrior, they have Pot, and kills him.
    Egyptian(5) settler meets us - they have BW.
    3200- Find Thebes. Find French irrigation.
    3150- Shanghai and Beijing settlers.
    3100- Warrior "nr Moscow" pops hut:50g.
    3050- Found Canton.
    3000- Found Nanking.

    2950- Find Moscow. Russians are now (3).
    Russians come next to Beijing. Egyptians sneak attack killing warrior.
    2850- disc Mon -> Poly. Become Monarchy.
    Peace with Russians, give Alp.
    Chariot moves next Paris, French offer all knowledge and 30g. We kill Paris warrior.
    2800- I was reluctant to take the French offer, as getting an opponent out is good, and I don't want the carrying cost of extra techs. I am not sure how many, and how useful.
    But, now I think that as Moscow and Thebes are on rivers, this may take a bit longer and so I need growth before building up proper forces. What would Peaster do?
    We take 28g and the knowledge for a ceasefire with French, and then we make peace.
    Techs acquired: Mas, Mys, Pot, WC. Actually I don't think that's so great.
    And of course this set greatly increases the cost of Poly.
    Similar ceasefire with Egyptians for 45g and knowledge. Acquire: BW.
    Notice a French horse by Moscow.
    2600- Hut: Horse(Shanghai).
    Come across StPetersburg - break treaty and raze it, taking 22g.

    Stats at 2500BC:
    pop.: 100k; Cities: 4; techs: 10; gold: 96; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 settler, 3 warrior, 1 archer, 2 horse, 1 chariot.
    Cautiously optimistic there was no green re-spawn.
    Can see three other capitals - two on rivers.
    Will need vets, so have choice of Feu and Sun Tzu, or barracks - will try the latter.
    Have good feel for world - lots of hills and mountains so quite slow, and ocean round it as is usual - can see some of ocean on north, west and east.
    Think may manage without wonders.
    But will need a port or two as ships make such difficult terrain much easier to manage.
  10. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    In continuing...

    My very first trade of the game was made about 125bc, demanded Gems yielding a fairly meager 78 bonus towards Seafaring. over the next 5 turns, the Chinese hit 6 more relatively meager trades of 60, 104, 114, 85, 72, and 96 filling the beakers for Seafaring in 1ad.

    1 AD Summary:

    54 Cities with HG, Pyramids and Mikes

    Units: 35 Settlers, 32 Caravans, 3 Triremes, 6 Crusaders, 3 dips, 1 chariot, 4 archers, 6 phalanx, 5 Horses, 4 warriors.

    Buildings: 2 only, both barracks with 32 Harbors in progress in the form of marketplaces to be switched next turn.

    City Sizes: (5) size 8s, (4) 7s, (3) 6s, (3) 5s, (4) 4s, (0) 3s.

    Techs: 20 with 21st (Seafaring) completing next turn.

    191 gross mfg, 214 gold income, 3 beaker income, 295 Citizens, 5.3 million population.

    Still deciding upon the most ideal spot for Colossus with one candidate seemingly standing out as the best choice: east coast 44/14 wheat which also has 17 ocean squares, a plain, a future grassland and only one poor trade square in the form of a mountain. As well it has access to every square with no cities planted within its borders. It neither demands nor supplies Hides, but such an immensely desirable attribute is known to be extremely fickle, especially as the city begins to grow past size 8 and beyond. Haven't been in a huge hurry to build Colossus since i see optimal demanded trade as being spread throughout many super trade cities over the entire empire with the Colossus city (at least in this situation) not being involved in any substantial portion of this. Colossus will not become a priority until i am able to build Library, University, Copernicus and Isaacs all very soon thereafter, perhaps each in consecutive turns, an event not likely to occur for several centuries with the fast growing Super trade facet being established as the nearly exclusive source of pushing the science forward at this point and with Construction, Bachs and Sanitation far more pressing.


    Seafaring > Construction

    Between Shield progress over about 10 turns since the completion of Republic and the beginning of researching Seafaring, a very rarely preserved 20ad treasury of 665 gold (almost always i re-invest gold as fast as i get it)... and six new trades this turn of 64, 114, 132, 126, 48 and 64 (totaling 548 gold) the Chinese were able to complete an awesome 17 Harbors this turn, prioritizing the most essential ones first, ushering the civ into the next phase of massive celebration growth potential with aquaducts soon to follow.

    After having Seafaring take about 10 turns as the newly initiated shift to trade caravan building took this long to begin to bear fruit with these trades finally reaching their destinations, Construction was completed by trades in just one turn with science rate having to produce the final 68 beakers.

    40ad: Construction > Banking (Feudalism towards Theology was not offered)

    40ad Trades: 198 and 130.

    40ad: able to complete a modest 4 additional harbors.

    60ad: Attacked Kiev down to size 1 then bribed it for 150 gold, getting 22 back, a barracks, archer and phalanx making this buy quite a good deal :). Then approached another Russian city and they offered free peace which i rejected, followed up with an offer of 150 gold for peace which was much more tantalizing and i happily accepted. Moscow and St. Pete's are boxed in nicely with Moscow as a highly lucrative Hide demander. I intend to keep both alive for a good long while as is true also with Thebes and Memphis, both of which also demand Hides.

    Since moving into Republic in 225bc, luxury rate has been set as low as 30% and as high as 70% seeking each turn to find the optimal place with careful consideration given to both celebration growth and income.

    60ad Trades: 148 and 204.

    80ad: Banking > Feudalism

    80ad trades: 114, 74, 64
    100ad trade: 144
    120ad trades: 120, 176.

    140ad: Feudalism > The Wheel (Theology obviously not offered thus choosing towards Sanitation)

    140ad trades: 198, 150, 204
    160ad trades: 112

    180ad: Wheel > Theology

    180ad trades: 236, 108, 120, 130, 120 providing 714 out of 728 and enabling Theology to be completed in one turn aided by 5 scientists.

    200ad: Theology > Engineering

    8 caravans arrive in capital to fill 400 shields.

    200ad trades: 168, 162, 168

    3 dips sabotage Paris, the third one taking down the walls. 2 vet crusaders attack first, a non-vet crusader next, then 2 vet horses destroying Paris and the French civ which stood in the way of important unprotected east coast expansion and which was not a very good or important trade partner.

    220ad: Chinese civ emerges with Bach's as the 4th wonder.

    220ad trades: 120, 184.

    Also built new Palace at future Colossus site (east coast wheat 44/14), bringing reduced corruption to the vast majority of the super trade cities, providing as well the freedom to build fewer courthouses. The Chinese STC's are predominately on the East and West coasts.

    240ad: Engineering > Medicine

    240ad trades: 186, 156

    260ad trades: 232, 244

    Chinese civ saddened over the loss of a highly lucrative size 6 Thebes Hide demand and must re-route about 10 Hide caravans to less ideal trade destinations. To be clear, Thebes is still alive and well, just not the Hide demand :).

    280ad: Medicine > Astronomy (Sani not offered)

    5 trades with values of 204, 172, 240, 150 and 156 provide 922 beakers against the needed 841 to complete Medicine in one turn aided by a single scientist.

    With 20 shields as the least expensive unit, began rushing some already begun horses as disbanding units to be utilized in 3 Hide producing STC's so each can rush a Hide caravan every turn.

    300 ad: Astronomy > Sanitation

    300 ad trades: 132, 180, 208

    320 ad trades: 308, 308, 208, 184, 156

    Not enough trade to complete Sanitation in one turn and overkilled it on the second, welcoming the extra gold to re-invest in a sea of priorities including Hides and other demanded caravans, aquaducts, harbors and sewers.

    340ad: Sani > Chivalry

    4 fine trades of 308, 284, 284 and 192 allow chivalry to be completed in one turn.

    360ad: Chivalry > University

    4 more fine trades of 284, 268, 174 and 196 allow University to be completed in one turn.

    After being at war for about 5 turns, Egypt finally captures my intentionally empty city aptly named "Free Gift" 2 steps from Thebes which was size 8 (7 after capture) and demands Hides. For as long as the demand lasts, this goldmine and ocean front foreign city will be even more lucrative for landing Hide trades than Thebes had been. Hopefully this doesn't violate any rules :). Now several Hide caravans which had been redirected away from Thebes will come back this way along with several new ones.

    Russia has had iron working for about 5 turns and i have been unable to obtain it in Republic through reputation sparing means. I am very confident in this hostile ai version that i would not have been able to get it from them through offering a trade, so instead i have been flooding their land with my units in the hopes of inciting them to surprise attack me as well as demanding them each turn to get off my land (which is also their own and which of course was theirs long before i chose to share it), hoping to pick a fight through this tactic. I don't believe they will withstand my insults much longer without losing their temper, making war on me. Hopefully this will happen and i will be able to steal iron working before i am forced to research it myself :).

    380ad Summary: 77 Cities, 4 Wonders: HG, Pyramids, Mike's, Bach's

    Nearing capacity but will likely build about 5 more cities. Squeezing out several cities i would not normally build due to the land being so small and the finite nature of it being abundantly apparent.

    Units: 43 Caravans, 25 Settlers, 8 triremes, 7 Crusaders, 1 Catapult, 6 diplomats, 5 archers, 1 chariot, 5 pikemen, 7 horses, 3 phalanx, 4 warriors. Attempting to manage the occasional roving band with the 7 crusaders and 6 diplomats spread throughout the civ which has been working out fine so far.

    740 gross gold income, 107 Cost, 0 beaker income (or 3), 275 gross Mtons, 622 Citizens, 19.6 million population.

    City sizes: (1) 13, (5) 12s, (9) 11s (for polar cities this is their max size, other size 11s ceased to celebrate further and require a higher lux rate to break through and some crowded together cities are competing for limited and overlapping food), (4) 10s, (1) 9, (7) 8s... and on down to size 1s.

    Buildings: 49 Harbors, 20 Aquaducts, 12 Courthouses, 1 Sewer, 1 Temple, 3 Barracks.

    Techs: 32 and Chemistry is in progress.

    Have been stopped here for about a week which is why i am providing a 380ad summary at this point, not waiting til 500ad. Will see when i get a chance to continue.
  11. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Mar 21, 2011
    Very nice! :goodjob:
    There is no rule against cities being lost, it happens all the time.
    The numbers look good for a map like this I guess. But are all those courthouses worth building? I have never seen so many so early.
  12. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Haha, thank you :blush:. So i hear you saying in a funny way that there is no issue with the intentional losing of cities? :yeah:

    You guess? :yeah:

    To me each courthouse seemed to be worth it at the time whether for substantially corrupted STC hide suppliers, STC hide demanders or other STCs that needed the dramatically reduced corruption to keep celebrating without hiking the luxury rate beyond what i felt to be worth it at the time. Sometimes i was considering between a courthouse and a marketplace to enable continued celebration growth and all things considered - especially factoring in the values of the multiple trade caravans that would be impacted - the courthouse seemed to make the most sense. Some courthouses were built the turn before one or more caravans were going to land and i calculated that between the increase in gold and science bonuses that these buildings would very soon pay for themselves. Also, several of these courthouses were built in cities which had supplied multiple Hide caravans that were soon to be landing and no longer supply them. It's been 4 or more years since i have played, so it's very possible and even likely that with a bit more practice that i would have played it differently in some ways.

    I haven't had the opportunity to read much from past gotms, do you feel the large number of harbors seems fairly normal as compared to what other players typically would have done?

    Thank you for your reply :yeah:
  13. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Mar 21, 2011
    It is helping them for your own benefit, just like gifting techs.

    Thanks for the explanation about the courthouses, I would like to read Ali's opinion on this, but it will probably take some time until he reads about it.
    Absolutely! Harbors are very important on rough maps like this, the easiest and quickest way to increase the food surply.
  14. WildPony

    WildPony Chieftain

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    excellent analogy, thank you :yeah:

    You're very welcome. It's not the simplest and most black and white decision with other possible areas in which the gold could have been invested that might have yielded even more overall benefit to the civ. A sample analysis looks like this. City x has 4 hide caravans en route. It has 20 raw uncorrupted trade and 10 corruption without accounting for anything added by existing routes if any. A courthouse would change this to 25/5, a 20% increase in uncorrupted trade. If the gold and science bonuses per trade were going to be 200 each without a courthouse, they then would become 250 each with it. With 4 hide caravans, this becomes 200 extra gold and 200 extra science beakers brought forth due to the courthouse which costs about 160 gold to build and with future additional caravans both sent and received as another good possibility providing even more benefit. The reduced corruption also yields a modest increase in gold and/or science income per turn and there is the plus one happy citizen to look forward to once the civ is in Democracy.

    Then we might ask the question, how much benefit might a building such as a marketplace have provided by comparison?... even though we will likely have both buildings in each substantially corrupted STC in the not so distant future, which one should we build first and why?. Should i prioritize a 5th hide caravan - the supply of which might disappear any second - or the courthouse before the first caravan lands? Often with these questions, there is no true apples to apples comparison but we can get a pretty good idea of what seems best. The hardest decisions come down to "which city's production should i prioritize over anothers given the finite funds?". For me it was rushing as many STC hide caravans as possible first, getting them en route, those which would yield the highest returns given the highest priority factoring in its amount of uncorrupted trade, the trade capability of the recipient city and the distance, accounting for doubling the overall trade numbers if foreign... rushing the STC courthouse only immediately before the first caravan among multiple to come was in a position to land and building the additional STC hide caravans (if any), or other demanded STC caravans immediately thereafter, holding off on the marketplaces (of which in 380ad i still have none) at least until specific ones were to be needed for the city to keep growing in celebration without having to substantially adjust the lux rate to accommodate just one or a tiny number of cities... but even then most commonly and with only rare exceptions prioritizing other unit or building prospects higher and buying marketplaces only once there was gold left over after the very highest priorities have first been met :yeah:.

    Yes, :agree: it was a very exciting turn for me when harbors were able to be built, to me one of the games most powerful transitional points :yeah:.
  15. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

    Sep 27, 2001
    I was really looking forward to this one! Of course I went for EC.

    Restarts ON, so populating the map is necessary. Also need MPE.
    I don’t see a hut, and I want my initial cities to be on River squares if possible.

    Basic plan:
    ICS energetically until 2000bc
    Monarchy ASAP. Then Poly and Trade
    Energetically send Horses to explore and conquer –
    Hope for 8 Cities by 20000bc; then Poly.

    4000 Move N and South. See Hut on River.
    3950 Hut: Chariot. Goodie! Charior find 2nd river and Whale. Also find river in S.
    3900 Beijing at 21,17. Seems to be a lot of good City sites so far.
    3850* Res CB (5). Kyoto found and razed. Japanese destroyed. I’m going to pop the southern Hut: horse (NONE) so there is an AI near.

    3750 Shanghai at (22, 28) Hut 100g. With no Size 1 settler, there is no immediate use, but I can at least RB the first row for a while. Should I use it for a Barracks? No, better is a bunch of Warriors and then rush settlers.
    3700 Beijing Warrior, finds Buffalo. Moscow found on river. Trade Alph for CerBurial. Attack? They don’t have BW. Fortune favors the brave! Moscow destroyed, horse deeply red, but not vet. Russians destroyed.
    3650* res CoL (12/18)
    3550 CoL => BW (only useful offering)
    3500 meet Egyptian Chariot: they want to trade Masonry – we say no – peace.
    3450* Egypt develops BW. Hail for trade – trade Alph for BW. Hut: 25g
    3400 res Mon (9/36).
    3350 Hut: 50g.
    3300 Beijing settlers
    3200 Canton (3). Hut: 50g. Rush settlers in Shanghai.
    3150 Hut: better not pop – Monarchy coming soon.
    3050* Monarchy=> Curr. Gov: Mon. Hut: 50g. Hut 50g. Hut: ruins.
    3000 Nanking (4) near iron. RB all first rows.
    Status: 4C, Monarchy. 5 Warriors, 1 horse, 1 chariot
    5 Tech, res Curr (6/45)

    2950 Egypt Chariot appears near Warrior. Set a trap. Buy 1st rows.
    2900 Egypt doesn’t fall for trap. Buy 2nd rows.
    2800 find Thebes. Set trap for chariot again…
    2750 Egypt develops MM. Currency => HB. Egypt kills warrior but does not continue into our trap. Uh-oh. Tsingtao (5)
    2650* Finally kill Egyptian Chariot – our chariot is Vet. We should be able to take out Thebes now. Hut: 100g – What gives!!!???
    2600 buy 2nd rows.
    2550 Xinjian (6)
    2450* HB => Trade. Egyptian warrior immolates on my warrior.
    2400 Chengdu (7)
    2350 French: peace, 50g tribute.
    2200 Hangchow (8)
    2150 Trade => Poly. Thebes razed, 18g, Maps. Egyptians: 50g.b. Tientsin (9)
    2050* French sneak attack my warrior, which becomes Vet. Tatung (10).
    2000 French Archer immolates on my vet warrior. Macao (11). Anyang. (12)
    Status: 12C, 1 Settler. Gov: Monarchy. 4 warrior, 1 horse, 1 chariot.
    9 Tech res. Poly. (62/108)

    I achieved all my goals.
  16. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

    Sep 27, 2001
    This part I played less energetically. The AI were hard to get an army to.

    1900 Poly => Pots. I wanted Explorers. Writing was probably better. Even better would have been to put science down and make more cash. I didn't think of it.
    1850* Polar hut: Masonry.
    1700 Shantung (13)
    1650* Pots => WC
    1500 Egypt: War.

    1300 MPE.
    French 1 city, 4 techs
    Egypt: 1 xity, 4 techs.
    - I perhaps should have gone for Poly in the beginning.

    We Find Paris.
    1250* WC => Seaf
    1100 Paris razed, French destroyed, no respawn.. Barb Leader 50g
    1050* Trireme built in Egyptian homeland. We find Memphis on a well-defended peninsula. Wow. I don’t think I can kill the settler on a mountain. Maybe I can starve it out, or maybe a Dip if I hadn't gone for Explorers.

    I finally figured it out.

    Spoiler :
    After I finished, I replayed and finished in 1300bc. It really helps to know the map!
  17. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Interturn: Survive warrior attack from Kyoto.
    925 BC: Kyoto sacked for 97g and Map Making. Japanese civilization destroyed by China.
    875 BC: Kill Phalanx in Paris. Kill Phalanx near Moscow.
    Interturn: Lose a knight near Paris.

    850 BC: Kill Archer in Paris: Paris seized for 71g
    825 BC: The Egyptians are proving to be quite a pain thanks to ZOC.
    800 BC: Polytheism > Mysticism. Kill Barb leade for 50g. Egyptians: no tribute.

    Interturn: My Pikemen gets killed in Barb attack in Paris&#8230; shoulda rushed another one.
    725 BC: Pay 50g to save Paris.
    Interturn: Renounce treaty with Egypt.
    700 BC: Kill one Phalanx in Memphis at the cost of a Knight. Memphis seized for 48g+Writing.
    675 BC: Kill French settler near Canton.

    600 BC: Lose a Knight near Canton. Kill Egyptian Archer in a lucky attack on Thèbes. Hangzhou built.
    550 BC: Diplomat on its way to Moscow. Hopefully they don&#8217;t have any other cities.
    500 BC: Move units near Thèbes. Maybe I finish next turn.
    475 BC: Kill Archer in THèbes: Thèbes conquered for 72g, but no civ kill! Moscow bribed for 182g, get 76 back. Again, no civ kill&#8230; BAD.
    425 BC: Canton civil disorder. Find Orléans: kill Archer inside.

    400 BC: ORléans sacked for 39g: French civilization destroyed by Chinese.
    375 BC: Find Egyptian city of Heliopolis: Heliopolis killed after killing a Phalanx. Egyptian civilization destroyed by Chinese. Game, set, match. T3L7S0. Where did the purple civ go?!? And the orange one&#8230; weird. Maybe not enough space in the map. ENTER.

    350 BC: Well I got trolled&#8230; LOL. There&#8217;s more civs to be found? T3L0S7. Start Pyramids in Shanghai, maybe I&#8217;ll need MPE. Restarts appear to be on&#8230; dang, shoulda prioritized Trade and MPE more heavily. Rookie mistake. I CAN get maps on MGE if I trade the very first turn.
    325 BC: Tienstin built.
    300 BC: Civil disorder in Shanghai. Mysticism > Trade not available&#8230; get Pottery instead. Found the Germans! Berlin is built on a mountain. That&#8217;s&#8230; bad. They are 2nd in the power graph. With one citizen.
    275 BC: Move 3 units near Berlin. Hopefully they don&#8217;t know BW.
    250 BC: Attack Berlin: All 3 units die to a single Phalanx&#8230; ********. It has Vet now for sure.
    225 BC: Tatung built. Macao built.
    150 BC: I&#8217;m going to attack with 10+ Knights, hopefully it&#8217;s enough. God-damn, that&#8217;s unfortunate.
    125 BC: Kill Warrior near Berlin.
    100 BC: Pottery > Trade.
    50 BC: Kill Barb leader in Paris. Will attempt an attack on Berlin next turn. Cease-fire signed because I want the sneak attack bonus.
    25 BC: Attempt no 2 on Berlin. Lose 4 Vet Knights killing a single Phalanx, but it eventually falls and German civilization killed by Chinese. Vikings respawn next door: kill the settler after 2 more units fall. T3L7S0. Please don&#8217;t troll me this time, game&#8230; Anyang built. Shantung built. T3L7S0. Enter&#8230; THERE IT IS!

    Status at 25 BC:
    Government: Monarchy Cities: 17 Techs: 14 (currently researching Trade) Gold: Who cares.
    Wonders; None. Rivals: None. Job: Done!

    Can&#8217;t be arsed to make a good analysis this time around, other than noticing the severe lack of settling spots and getting unlucky on the first hut pop (second time I tried, got a horse and razed an empty Kyoto). Much less safe settling spots. Guess I was lucky getting Feudalism from a hut, and being able to path for Chivalry. Though I was never really on the defensive, and that&#8217;s assuming I don&#8217;t get Poly/Mono itself from a hut.
    Also, I hate it when AI&#8217;s build cities on mountains&#8230; and respawns in MGE games.

    Spoiler :
    Also tried again after submitting... no respawns and finished at 925 BC. Need2learn proper ICS.
  18. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Mar 21, 2011
    Happy New Year!

    We already are past the deadline for this game.
    Things went a lot smoother in my game, no respawns at all despite very early wipeouts (and no AI cities on mountains).

    Stats at 2500BC:
    pop.: 60k; Cities: 4; techs: 6; gold: 151; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 settler, 2 warrior, 1 horse
    Goals: Expand and explore, make plans for conquest

    -2400 Russia has HBR, Egypt pottery to offer, both declined
    (Russians destroyed by France!)
    -2250 Tsingtao, Xinjian founded
    -2200 Curr.->HBR; Ouch! Wanted to get HBR from russians, but they are no more!
    -2100 Supported horse from hut; hail Egypt hoping for HBR, get mapmaking instead, swap maps
    -2050 None-archer from hut; gift some techs to France making them cooperative, no tech exchange offer though, I don't think they have HBR
    -1900 Chengdu founded; plan for Paris attack: via boat from Chengdu(33,17), 4 ellies should do
    -1800 HBR->Poly;
    -1750 Hangchow
    (French sneak attack, lose warrior, archer survives chariot & vet)
    -1600 Tientsin founded
    -1500 Poly->Myst.; 100g from hut; science down to 30%, we will probably not need any more techs

    Stats at 1500BC:
    pop.: 190k; Cities: 9; techs: 10; gold: 222; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 2 settler, 2 warrior, 1 phalanx, 1 archer, 2 horse, 1 boat
    Goals: Build elephants and boats for conquest
    Spoiler :

    -1400 Tatung founded on west coast, will build two boats there to ship ellies to Egypt
    -1200 4 ellies heading for Paris
    -1150 Ellies dropped off on mountain south of Paris
    -1100 Anyang founded; Paris razed (20g), French not dead though, accept offer of 84g for cease fire, also peace; update egypt map, still only 1 city
    -1050 Shantung founded; Sneak attack Egypt, kill settler + defender, but 2 units lost
    -1000 Thebes captured (67g+pottery);
    -975 Chinan founded; Another sneak at French Orlean and ellie destroys the city (and the whole French civilization). GAME OVER

    We finished the game with 15 cities.
  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Welcome lasingularidad and welcome back WildPony. Glad to see so many people playing this one.

    I started last night. My apriori plan was to play OCC. I moved north towards the river like everyone else and found a decent spot in the middle of the river with access to whale, buffalo, and coal. Not ideal but decent enough for OCC. Knowing that on a world this small the map generator typically generates just one land mass I was not concerned about ocean access.

    Will post log soon.

    I love Colossus in space ship games and I typically give it priority. Those extra arrows are useful for everything, not just science. Also, in a normal (and above) size world, the rivals typically build Colossus if you do not give it priority.

    As Major already pointed out, it is not against any rules. It is the first time I have heard of such a tactic. Very interesting. It is good to have old masters like you back.

    Happy to oblige. If I am stuck in Republic for a long time, which I try not to be, then I give courthouses priority over almost all other infrastructure and particularly over marketplaces in mid size (and larger) cities far away from my capital. Courthouses give you extra arrows and that contributes to many more aspects of city health than a marketplace. With a courthouse you get higher science output, less shield waste, and better trade payoffs; not just more tax and lux.

    Having said that, I try very hard to have a short-lived Republic. There have even been a few cases that I went directly from monarchy to democracy. But sometimes, like the GOTM 170 that I just finished, that is not possible.

    There is surely more than one way to analyze these situations but the one I have found to work best most of the time is the rate of return on investment model first proposed by Peaster. You can look it up in the forum.

    For example, let say I am wondering whether I should build a library in this city or a temple in that other city. You calculate the rate of return per turn on your investment. For a library you get 50% extra science minus one gold (its cost). So if your city is producing 10 beakers right now, and assuming 1 science= 1 gold (this can and should be changed based on circumstances) your return is 4g/turn and your return on investment is 4/160= 2.5%. For the temple in the other city, lets assume it allows an Elvis to be put to work on a tile producing two foods and one shield. Assuming 1 food = 1 shield (which in early game is often valid when you can switch from shielded grassland to forest) your return equals 3 shields. Assuming 1 shield=2 gold (again adjust this for specific circumstances), your return is 6-1(cost)=5g and your return on investment is 5/80= 6.25%.
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    This turned out to be a rather unusual OCC.

    The rough terrain and the small world meant a lot of contact with the rivals. In the early game this prevented me from tipping many huts but removed any doubt that Marco is not needed here. In mid game this proximity caused a lot of battles. Fortunately I was prepared and had several forts in strategic locations. This also meant several rival cities were built close enough to me to be able to share tiles.

    The rivals built only a handful of small cities each and this plus the rough terrain meant a lot less tech swapping than usual. Worse, the small rival cities meant that I spent most of the game as Mighty (and a little bit as supreme) with no key civ. At some point my power dropped to Strong for a little while and that by itself cut my tech cost in half. This was the main reason why I built Darwin, which I rarely do in OCC games.

    Another oddity was that no one wanted to ally with me, even enthusiastic Egyptians. And all were quite reluctant to share maps.

    I have played till 1850 (many of my OCCs would be done by this date) and have just discovered flight. It will be 1900s before I am done.

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