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GOTM 172 spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Major Advantage, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    Nobody opened this thread so far, so I thought it might be my turn break the ice.

    Having had some great success with QDEC (quick & dirty EC) the previous Gotm, I tried it here as well. Things started off pretty smooth, I got a lot of units from huts, two rivals eliminated by the AI, one by me...and then there was this one battle, I think I would have conquered the world very early if only this battle had gone the other way...hätte, hätte, Fahrradkette...

    Bottom line: No submission from my this time. Log follows later.
     
  2. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    No submission for me either. I initially played with an MGE copy of Civ2 and got my butt kicked by the AI diplomacy, gave up after a while. Replayed again after obtaining an AI patched Civ2 executable, and managed to land, although it got real hairy by the end (thank god for no paratroopers, my capital was empty for one turn)

    It goes without saying, I was trying OCC. Didn't feel like spaceship, and EC would have been unlikely with all capitals on rivers (and we all know that the AI loooves to build city walls early on in the capital, so...)

    GL to all submitters!
     
  3. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Oh, sorry to hear others have had trouble playing this. I'm playing at the moment. Unsurprisingly, it didn't take long to find the other civs...

    Initial hut luck seems very good.

    4000- Hut: Archers.
    3950- Back to square 1.
    3900- Found London(26,20). Start on Alp.
    3850- Hut: Nomads.
    3800- Found York(34,20).
    3750-
    3700- disc Alp -> CoL.
    3650-
    3600-
    3550- Hut: Archers(NON).
    3500- Hut: Archers(York).

    Aztecs(3) appear - in two places - they have Mys.
    3450- disc CoL -> Mys. Swap Alp to Aztecs for Mys.
    3400- Start on Mon.
    3350- Hut: (AT)Nottingham(28,32).
    3300- Hut: 50g. Hut:Nomads - Found Hastings(21,21).
    3250- Warrior meets Russian(3) chariot - very near London, that is worrying. Peace.
    Rush Phalanx London.
    3200- Peace with Aztecs(5), give CoL.
    3150-
    3100-
    3050- disc Mon -> MM. 0/60. Revolution. Become Monarchy. Hut(we were waiting): Nomads.
    3000- Found Canterbury(34,4).

    2950-
    2900-
    2850-
    2800-
    2750- Meet Americans(0), they have Pot.
    2700- Found Coventry. Hut: Weeds.
    2650-
    Mongol(5) warrior approaches - gives 100g for peace.
    Viking(0) warrior approaches - offer Masonry swap, declined.
    2600- disc MM -> Wri.
    2550-
    2500- 25g from Aztecs.

    2450- Peace and ignored by Ams.
    2400- Found Warwick.
    2350-
    2300- disc Wri -> HBR. Found Newcastle.
    2250- Found Oxford.
    2200- Found Liverpool.
    2150-
    2100- Found Dover.
    2050-
    Babyls approach, we give CoL and get peace.
    2000-
    Babyls attack Russians nr Canterbury (thankyou.)
    Sneak attack by Vikings - warrior lost.

    Cities:11. Settlers:3. Techs:8.

    I perhaps should have done more thinking before getting going on this one. I rushed in, behind on GotM schedule, and keen to remind myself what English city names are in what order in the game. But even for a small map there are a lot of AI units coming up to our cities. It must be that when we usually play on small maps the terrain is more difficult, and of course poor terrain makes it harder for the AI to grow. That is going to make things different.
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I have moved the discussions about submission off of this thread. Please continue the discussion in the new thread.
     
  5. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Strategy
    Early conquest is not appealing here; it is just a matter of quick land grab. OCC would work out great here, but landing is even more enticing. So landing it is.
    The first decision is what to do with the hut next door. If the settler tips it and gets a none unit, that is perhaps worth losing 2 turns to build the capital. But if you get money or worse yet tech, then it is lose lose. I am not going to risk that and will build the city first. The next decision is whether to build a warrior first or size 1 settler. The warrior allows tipping the huts more quickly, but has the disadvantage of delaying size 1 settler (and hence expansion) and possibly getting off path techs to Monarchy. With the gold in city radius and Burial as a starting tech, by the time the size 1 settler is ready, Monarchy is already being researched. But then if you do not get a unit from the first hut you have the dilemma of exploring with your size 1 settler or waiting for a warrior. I will go with warrior first.

    Date Notes

    -4000 London founded; working gold.
    -3950 -> Alphabet.
    -3850 Alphabet -> Code of Laws.
    -3700 Warrior produced. Settler started. 50 from hut. Will buy the first two rows for settler.
    -3550 Code of Laws -> Writing.
    -3500 Nomad from hut. This is wonderful hut luck. If I do not rush, my size 1 will be ready in 7 turns. Fortunately I have 26g so in two turns I can rush it.
    -3350 Size 1 settler produced.
    -3300 Horseback riding from hut.
    -3250 York and Nottingham founded. The latter is a helper city and may be uprooted in the distant future.
    -3000 100g from hut.

    Status at -3000
    Population: 0.03M; Cities: 3; Techs: 5; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 105; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 3 warriors
    Goals: Expansion, Monarchy
    Russian: no contact
    Babylonian: no contact
    Viking: no contact
    Aztec: no contact
    American: no contact
    Mongol: no contact

    -2950 Archer from hut.
    -2900 Writing -> Monarchy.
    -2850 Met Babylonian settler and reached peace. My power is mighty. Some one has more population? 25g from hut.
    -2800 50g from hut. Advanced tribe founds Hastings.
    -2650 Nomad from hut. Currency from hut. My power is supreme.
    -2550 Aztec archer shows up near York and offers peace which we gladly accept. Archer runs into Russian settler. We accept their offer of peace and demand tribute. They pay 100g.
    -2500 Empty hut.
    -2450 Monarchy -> Trade. Monarchy established. T3L0S7. Nomad builds Canterbury on the shore of the island lake. Coventry founded. Warrior reaches Washington.
    Monarchy, Currency, Code of Laws -> American (5) -> Mapmaking, maps, 50g.
    Monarchy, mapmaking -> Babylonian -> maps, 25g.
    Mapmaking -> Russian -> cut off.
    Monarchy, mapmaking -> Aztec (0) -> maps, 0g.
    Americans and Babylonians have 2 cities each, Aztecs have just one.
    -2350 Mapmaking -> Viking (5) -> Mysticism, maps, 50g. They also have Masonry which I do not care for now. They have 4 cities! Their second one is from an advanced tribe. Literacy from hut.
    -2300 Advanced tribe founds warwick.
    -2200 New Castle and Oxford founded. None chariot from hut. Barbarian horseman from hut.
    -2150 Barbarian horseman withdraws.
    -2050 Trireme produced for island lake. Horseman from island hut.
    Burial, Monarchy, Mysticism -> Mongol (1) -> maps, 150g. They have 2 cities as well.
    -2000 Mongol embassy established. Likely there are no huts left.

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.17M; Cities: 9; Techs:11; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 102; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 1 settler, 4 warriors, 1 archer, 2 horsemen, 1 none chariot, 1 trireme, 2 diplomats
    Goals: Expansion, Trade, Colossus, Hanging Gardens
    Russian: no embassy; 3+ cities
    Babylonian: no embassy; 2+ cities
    Viking: no embassy; 4+ cities
    Aztec: no embassy; 1+ cities
    American: no embassy; 2+ cities
    Mongol: 2 cities, 9 techs; war with Russians
     
  6. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    In retrospect I am glad I started the game the way I did: I did not get a unit till my fifth hut. For some reason, I have noticed that I do not get as many units from huts as others. For example, here Inkerman got 3 units out of his first 9 huts; I got one.

    Major and Jokemaster, we would still love to see your logs. Anyone else playing?
     
  7. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Fair comment, but with "quick" as an important consideration I was going EC, as was probably evident from tech choices in the earlier log (to 2000BC.)

    Regarding hut outcomes Ali would improve his chances of getting a unit by popping the hut before founding London, but I cannot explain the subsequent difference in our fortunes.

    My hut draws this time were unusually heavy on nomads/advanced tribes and light on barbs (lucky me) but I think the units frequency was about average. My game wasn't perfect - it would have been even better had the first unit been a fast one - but the hut gods were certainly looking after me.

    I had thought initially that with this map the conquest could be without wonders but at 2000BC I changed my mind. I had seen the AI exploiting the easier-than-usual terrain for a small map, to produce cities and units, and there were cities on rivers which increases their defense strength. Also we are in the middle, and will need to fight on at least two fronts at the same time. So I will want plenty of cities, and that suggests Hanging Gardens will be worth having. There will be advantage in swapping techs...

    1950- Embassy Babyls - give Mon get HBR (which we have nearly researched ourselves; they have Pot.) They want BW too.
    1900- Start on Curr. Found Brighton, Norwich, Leeds.
    1850- disc Curr -> Poly (Trade not available.)
    Vikings give 50g for ceasefire and peace. They also have Whe.
    1800-
    1750- No money from Babyls when we ask.
    1700-
    1650- Found Reading (how is this place so high on the city list?)
    100g from Ams.
    100g from Mongols.
    1600- disc Poly -> Trade.
    50g from Aztecs.
    150g from Russians.
    Give Mys to Mongols to reduce our cost of discovery.
    1550- Found Birmingham, Richmond. (Richmond?)
    1500-

    Cities: 17, Settlers: 4, Techs: 11.

    We notice Tenochtitlan has city walls (and it's on a river.)
    In fact all the AI capitals are on rivers.
    I think having a barracks needs to be normal for the main cities with shield capacity.
     
  8. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    -4000 pop hut: Chariot! Excellent
    -3900 London founded on starting location; horse from hut NE
    -3850 Researching Alph; 50g from hut
    -3800 Another 50g from hut
    -3750 Archer from hut, this is not that great, he will head home and be disbanded
    -3650 Weeds in hut
    -3600 Alph->Laws; Another supported Archer, supported, 10 steps from London...hmm
    (Mongols destroyed by Vikings!!!)
    -3550 S1-settler built, heads south to found a city to host the archer
    -3500 None-horse from hut (Near Karakorum); Currency from hut
    -3450 York founded; run into cordial Vikings, they offer the wheel, no, peace
    -3400 None-horse from hut
    -3350 Discover Tenochtitlan, sign peace, they do not want to exchange techs, no tribute; weeds in hut
    -3300 Another weeds
    -3250 25g, mapmaking from huts; gift mm to Vikings, exchange maps: two cities on rivers, but only defender by one warrior each...
    (Russian warrior approaches, sign peace, they offer myst., no, gift mm, no map trading)
    -3200 Run into Washington, they offer pottery, no, peace
    -3100 Gift mm to America, exchange maps
    -3050 run into emtpty St. Petersburg (on hut location)
    -3000 Hail Vikings hoping for an invitation to war with Russians, but no...decide not to raze St. Pete, don't want any bad tech now
    -2900 More Weeds
    -2750 Laws->Monarchy(60); Nottingham founded; Discover Babylon, peace, they offer pottery, no; we are strong
    -2650 Let's start conquest with Babylon, send 2 horses and 2 chariots there
    -2550 Hastings founded; another chariot from hut
    -2400 Attacking units are in place...; Russians hail us and want Bronze
    -2350 Attack Babylon, lose chariot#1, chariot#2 wins and vet, horse wins and vet, city razed, 32g and pottery, but Babs not wiped out
    (Russians offer gold for alliance, declined since we wanted to wipe out them; Russians destroyed by Vikings...should have taken that gold)
    -2250 Ur razed, 26g, Babylonians destroyed
    -2200 Americans are not interested in exchangeing techs
    -2100 Mon.(one turn too early)->HBR; Sneak attack America, raze New York (defended by Phalanx, rivered Wash. won't be easy), 14g; Only 1 warrior defending Trondheim. will have chariot and horse ready soon; revolution
    (America hail us, sign cease fire for 74g, sign peace, we will need elephants for attack on Washington)
    -2050 Become Monarchy
    -2000 Sneak on Trondheim, chariot loses, horse cannot attack because of ZOC...
    -1950 Horse is trapped, kill phalanx, still not vet, Vikings (who must have HBR) refuse to talk

    Stats at 1950BC:
    pop.: 100k; Cities: 4; techs: 8; gold: 219; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 settler, 4 horse, 1 chariot

    -1900 Viking Chariot north of Nottingham, hail Vikings, pay 100g fro cease fire, give tech, no peace; Canterbury founded
    -1850 Sign peace with Vikings, no tech exchange though
    -1700 Vikings sneak attack! They kill a horse and have a Chariot near our undefended cities
    (Vikings capture London)
    -1550 Vikings raze Canterbury


    With all those units I got from huts, it was a pretty logical decision to go straight for conquest. I really would have prefered to have more cities though...
     
  9. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Are you suggesting that the probability of units is higher before you have a city?

    I have noticed this for quite some time that somehow I do not get as many units from huts as others but get more techs instead. Not sure why. My hut luck in this game was very good, though perhaps a notch below yours.

    I see now why you gave up mid game. With only 3 cities and no capital, it is not going to be an easy conquest but given the small map and your none units I bet you can do it if you wanted to.
     
  10. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    There was not much left of my NONE-army in the end: 3 horses and 1 chariot. The crucial point was the attack on Trondheim in 2000 BC: If I had won that.... Unfortunately, I do not have a save from that turn, but iirc, I had a chariot and a horse at the "corners" just outside the city's radius and the city was only defended by warrior(s?), but then the chariot lost and the horse couldn't attack because some viking unit was blocking it with its ZOC. Captain Hindsight told me I still could have built some defense units after that...
     
  11. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Yeah. According to Samson's research, the probability of getting a military unit before founding a city/within 3 squares of a city is 60%, whereas it's 20% normally. That being said,
    Spoiler :
    lasingularidad got an advanced tribe on his 2nd turn during GOTM174, before founding a city, normally the normal hut rules don't "turn on" until 50 turns elapse/a city is built, but it did for him anyway. So I really don't know.
     
  12. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

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    Spoiler :

    IIRC this is know as the Mac bug (i.e. it only appears on the Mac civ2 version). I can also have Barbarians even without any city on the first turns (but that is also unlikely).

     
  13. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    The two hidden comments above relate to whether a hut can produce an Advanced Tribe early in the game.

    You can find this text on the net:
    I think it has been determined that this is not quite the way the game behaves. But I am not sure we have a full understanding. It seems to be true for the first hut (hence my comment about Ali's pops in this game.)

    For example - and again referenced with the help of the index - a number of players tackled GotM 129, a wholly grassy map, by starting to pop huts, but all found their capitals this way. In my case it was the 4th pop, in turn 6.
     
  14. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

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    Spoiler :

    But was not for me in GOTM 174 as my first hut outcome was an AT (first out of three free tries).
     
  15. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

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    Here is my log from -4000 to -1000. Landing is my end goal. My strategy is early and extensive expansion along with AI cooperation, helping them with research and no warfare unless needed, at least till AI is no more useful as research assistant.

    -4000 Hut: NONE horsemen.
    -3950 Settler starts road.
    -3900 Hut: lucky NONE chariot.
    -3850 Hut: 50g.
    -3800 Hut: 50g. Supercita(1) founded, work gold. Tax: 6.0.4. Maybe size 1 settler twice?
    -3750 -> Alphabet. Hut: 50g.
    -3650 Hut: 50g. Hut: nomad on swamp (33;23). Hut luck is amazing so
    far. Finish RB settler, work roaded grassland now.
    -3500 Hut: Chariot (Supercita).
    -3450 Alphabet -> Code of Laws. Hut: NONE chariot. Met Mongols, peace,
    refuse The Wheel. Hut: empty. Finish RB settler. Size 1 settler
    a third time? Will depend on next hut outcomes (Supercita has 0
    shield production right now, maybe will disband chariot).
    -3350 Hut: empty. Hut: Pottery. No 3 size-1 settler. Norcita(2) founded.
    -3300 Nomada(3) founded.
    -3250 Sudita(4) founded. Met Aztecs, peace, the have nothing to exchange.
    -3200 Hut: Code of Laws (what I was researching).
    -3150 Met Vikings (Advance Tribe), peace, refuse masonery.
    -3100 Hut: 50g. Hut: NONE archer. Tax: 4.0.6.
    -3050 Micro manage workers to discover Monarchy in 2850BC

    Stats at 3000BC:
    pop.: 40k; Cities: 4; Techs: 5; Gold: 15; Gov.: desp.; Wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 archer, 1 horsemen, 3 chariots

    Vikings: cordial, peace
    Aztecs: receptive, peace
    Mongols: neutral, peace

    -2850 Monarchy -> Currency. Gift tech to Mongols so they become
    Worshipful, even if they refuse alliance. Same with Russians and
    Vikings. Aztecs however accept alliance. Tax: 3.0.7
    -2800 Met Americans, peace, gift them, they refuse alliance.
    -2750 Met Babs, peace, gift them, they refuse alliance.
    -2550 Aztec develop Currency. Promenada(5) and Ouesta(6) founded.
    -2500 Get Currency from Aztec but no gift.
    -2450 -> Masonery (Trade not available) Megacita(7) founded, she will
    be a 2nd SSC. Get Masonery from Vikings and 25g tribute.
    -2400 -> Trade
    -2350 Sursura(8) founded.
    -2250 Trade -> Writing. Get 25g from Aztecs, and 50g from Babs.
    -2050 Refuse to declare war to Mongols to ally with Babs.
    -2000 Give Alpha and CB to Russians. Get Writing from Babs for
    Trade. Give Writing to Aztecs and Mongols. Nobody wants
    alliance.

    Stats at 2000BC:
    pop.: 200k; Cities: 8; Techs: 10; Gold: 58; Gov.: mon.; Wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 2 settlers, 2 archer, 1 horsemen, 3 chariots

    Russians: enthuisiastic, peace,
    Babylonians: enthuisiastic, peace
    Vikings: enthuisiastic, peace
    Aztecs: worshipfull, allied
    Americans: enthuisiastic, peace
    Mongols: enthuisiastic, peace

    -1950 -> Litteracy.
    -1900 Give writing to Vikings.
    -1850 Refuse war agains Russians asked by Vikings for
    alliance. Tribute from babs 50g, gift from Aztecs 50g.

    -1750 Faisana(9) and Milia(10) founded. Red woman in Norcita.
    -1700 Laguna(11) and Playa(12) founded.
    -1650 Found New York where I wanted to put my next city. Mediterranea(13) founded.
    -1600 Forestina(14) founded.
    -1550 Americana(15) founded.
    -1350 Litteracy -> Republic. Hanging Gardens built in Supercita.
    -1300 Sudouesta(16) founded.
    -1250 25 gift from Aztecs.
    -1200 Piscatezca(17) founded.
    -1150 Boston and Teotihuacan where my settlers went to build new cities.
    -1100 Cuadra(18) and Bisonta(19) built.
    -1050 Intermedia(20), Seda(21) and Cavaliera(22) built.

    Stats at 1000BC:
    pop.: 450k; Cities: 22; Techs: 11; Gold: 0; Gov.: mon.; Wonders: HG; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 6 settlers, 1 warrior, 2 archer, 1 horsemen, 3 chariots

    Russians: enthuisiastic, peace,
    Babylonians: cordial, peace
    Vikings: enthuisiastic, peace
    Aztecs: enthuisiastic, allied
    Americans: enthuisiastic, peace
    Mongols: enthuisiastic, peace
     
  16. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

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    And here is log from till -500. I almost cut research and use AI advances and tributes. Grow is going well and map is almost full now. I will have two SSC, which are now building trade routes. I will soon build Mikes (don't know with one first), pyramids and switch to republic. And then prepare SSC wonders. I hope AI will not be aggressive for a while and will have minimal or no defenses.

    -950 Mita(23) founded.
    -925 American start colossus. Bostonita(24) founded.
    -900 Banaspica(25) founded.
    -875 Americans changed from Colossus to Pyramids. Republic -> Map
    Making. Get Map Making from Americans. Gift Republic to everybody
    and share maps. Aztec ended interview after gift so could not get
    money or maps from them. Peninsula(26) founded. Stupid Aztec
    warrior on caravan way will delay MPE
    -850 Intercita(27) founded.
    -825 Wanted to subvert Russian city but it just turn size 2 and is now
    too expensive. There is also a Viking city but I need 3 more
    gold. One of my settlers is trapped between three AI cities for
    10 turns and I can not get it out (they don't ask me to withdraw
    troops even if I move two chariots near to theirs). Should I
    build a city there in the nowhere? Sudesta(28) founded.
    -800 Supercita builds MPE. AI research is going pretty good! They are
    researching: Feudalism, Mysiticism, Polytheism, Banking. I'll
    gift the two others that research something I have. Gift Aztec
    and recieve 50g gift. Gift Vikings and get 75g tribute. Only
    Americans made the switch to Republic. Finally subverted small
    Viking city Viborg(29) for 196g, got 22g, Mathematics a size 1
    city with one warrior. This allow me to take back my settler.
    -775 Babamericana(30) founded. Granary in Supercita.
    -750 Encastrata(31) founded.
    -725 Babs develop Polytheism. Supercita celebrates. Vikings 25g
    tribute, Aztec 50g gift.
    -700 I have now too many cities and many black guys. This is like
    playing at deity. Fortunately HG help a lot.
    -675 I'll wait for Russians to complete Mysticism (this is probably
    very stupid). Tax: 7.3.0. Babalona(32) founded.
    -650 Mongols switched to Republic.
    -625 Fresca(33) founded, discovered a Mongol city in the middle of
    mines. Should share maps more often. Could bribe it but Mongol
    have large treasury and probably have better things to put my
    money in.
    -600 Russians develop Mysticism. Get mysticism from Russians and
    Polytheism from babs. Tax: 3.0.7.
    -575 -> Warrior Code. Get Warrior Code from Mongols. Fesana(34) build.
    -550 -> Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Medecine. Tax: 7.0.3.
    -500 Supercita size 5, work trade, will grow with WLTK from now
    on. Sell granary. Oasiza(35) founded

    Stats at 500BC:
    pop.: 1M; Cities: 35; Techs: 19 (researching Medecine); Gold: 4; Gov.: mon.; Wonders: HG, MPE; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 23 settlers, 26 warrior, 1 phallanx, 2 archer, 1 horsemen, 3 chariots, 1 diplo, 4 vans
     
  17. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

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    Log from -500 to 1AD.

    In this period I mostly stop expansion and focused on improving my SSC which is fully functional at 1AD, building road infrastructure, starting internal trade routes and switch to republic. AI was very helpful with good tribute (while at monarchy) but won't be useful anymore for science. But I have not time yet to spend to war. Trade with AI does not seems to be worth, I built three STC (including SSC) with 4 specials and will use them to build trade routes for every city.

    Next years will be devoted to city grow (size 2 cities are slowly turning size 3, and I missed the pyramids), democracy and science advances.

    -450 Americans develop banking. Get banking from them and gift all
    other AI that were researching it.
    -425 Hut: crusader (last hut, the one on the island. I was hopping to
    get a nomad here). First delivery from Megacita (2nd SSC) to
    Babylon: Salt 100g.
    -400 Tax: 4.2.4 so Supercita celebrates before deliveries
    -375 Medecine -> Astronomy. Get 125 from Babs. Get 300 from
    Russians. Get 125 from Mongols. Beads from Supercita 125g
    (disapointingly low)
    -350 Get 50g from Vikings and Aztecs. Tax 3.0.7
    -325 Americans almost build Pyramids. This was not planned... I could
    build it now but it is too risky that Americans would switch to
    colossus. Maybe I will attack them. Subvert Arthus(36) along with
    5 units for 440g and temple. Get 75 from Mongols, enough to buy
    MP in Supercita. Get 50g from Americans. Prepare for Republic in -225
    -300 Get 25g from Vikings
    -275 Mikes built. Supercita builds Colossus. Boca(37) founded.
    -250 Revolution.
    -225 New govt : Republic
    -200 Astronomy -> Construction. Wool 108g and Coal 156g (demanded)
    from Supercita (51 arrows) to the best AI cities. Payoff is quite
    low, not sure Trade will be really interesting in this map
    -175 Construction -> Seafaring. Get Seafaring from Babs and The Wheel from Mongols.
    -150 -> HBR. Allied Aztecs do not want to share HBR but Babs exchange it.
    -125 Plana(38) founded.
    -100 Engineering -> Sanitation. Domestic 48g
    -75 Supercita builds Copernicus.
    -25 Sanitation -> Invention. Supercita just reached size 12 and we buy Sewer System. Domestic 54g, 54g.

    Stats at 1AD:
    pop.: 2.6M; Cities: 38; Techs: 29 (researching Invention); Gold: 55; Gov.: rep.;
    Wonders: HG, Colossus, MPE, Mikes, Coperincus, Shakespear;
    TR: 2D/4F
    units: 31 settlers, 1 warrior, 3 archer, 2 legion, 1 horsemen, 3 chariots, 1 crusader, 1 trirem, 1 diplo, 11 vans

    Russians: cordial, peace,
    Babylonians: enthusiastic, peace
    Vikings: receptive, peace
    Aztecs: cordial, allied
    Americans: cordial, peace
    Mongols: cordial, peace
     
  18. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Spain
    Huts summary (-4000 to -2000)

    I did this small analysis to understand what we got from the huts but also how quick we choose to go for huts*. I think me and Ali were just the opposites since I chose to go for several huts before any city (and popped 15 huts while he popped 4 in the first 1000 years), while he chose to settle first and delay popping.

    *of course first hut outcomes, e.g. fast units, change a lot, but also maybe it is a strategic choice ?

    Both Inkerman and Ali had a high AT tribe ratio (4/9 and 4/16 respectively). Major got mostly units and also several weeds. I was happy with my hut luck, which conducted my early game. No barbs on this map (a single coward one on Ali game).

    Inkerman
    -4000 Archer Nomad Archer
    -3500 Archer AdvTribe 50g Nomad Nomad
    -3000 empty

    Ali
    -4000 50g
    -3500 Nomad Tech-HBR 100g
    -3000 Archer 25g 50g AdvTribe Nomad Tech-Curr
    -2500 empty Tech-Lit AdvTribe Chariot Barb-horse Horse

    lasingularidad
    -4000 Horse Chariot 50g 50g 50g 50g Nomad
    -3500 Chariot Chariot empty empty Tech-Pot Tech-CoL 50g Archer

    Major
    -4000 Chariot Horse 50g 50g Archer empty Archer
    -3500 Horse Tech-Curr Horse empty empty Tech-Map
    -3000 empty Chariot
     
  19. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    London
    I see at least some of the games we mention as having seen exceptions (GotM129, GotM174) have barbs set to "villages only" and I wonder if that is a factor.
     
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    The main goal in this period was expansion to cover the world. I decided to eliminate the aggressive rivals except my key civ Mongols, because I knew they will be trouble down the line and also I did not need quite that many trading partners.

    -1900 Aztec, Russian, Viking -> 25g. American, Babylonian -> 0g.
    -1850 Trade -> Philosophy.
    -1800 Liverpool and Dover founded.
    -1700 Brighton founded.
    -1600 Babylonian embassy established. Abskun founded on the 2-tile island.
    -1550 Norwich, Leeds, and Reading founded.
    -1500 American embassy established. Babylonian -> 50g, American -> 0g.
    -1450 Philosophy -> Polytheism -> Pottery. Mongols, who have pottery, refuse knowledge exchange. Russian, Aztec, American -> 0g. Viking -> 50g. Richmond founded to free my stuck settler. It will have to be a small helper city.
    -1400 Exeter founded as the first city on the north shore (27,3). Aztec embassy established. They have founded a second city. Babylonian -> 25g.
    -1350 Literacy -> Babylonian -> Pottery, 25g. Literacy -> Viking (5) -> 0g, war. Cambridge founded.
    -1300 Aztecs raze Boston. -> Monotheism. Gloucester founded. Russians declare war over my tribute demands. Mongol -> 25g. American -> 0g.
    -1250 Vikings and Russians ally against me. Viking horseman kills my fortified archer. Viking embassy established.
    -1150 Manchester founded. Warrior steps out of size 1 Hastings to save the city from destruction by approaching Russian horse.
    -1100 Russian horseman kills my warrior and is killed by my chariot. Monotheism -> Medicine. T7L0S3. Philosophy -> Aztec -> Masonry, maps. Philosophy -> American, Babylonian.
    -1050 Watch out Russians and Vikings: the English empire just produced 4 crusaders. Aztec -> 50g. American -> 25g. Babylonian -> 50g. Crusader kills Viking horseman. Chariot kills Russian warrior.
    -1000 Viking warrior and Russian horseman killed.

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.51M; Cities: 21; Techs:17; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 42; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 2 settlers, 18 warriors, 2 horsemen, 1 none chariot, 4 Crusaders, 1 trireme, 2 diplomats
    Goals: Conquest of Russians and Vikings, Republic, Colossus, Hanging Gardens, Michelangelo
    Russian: no embassy; 3+ cities
    Babylonian: 2 cities, 10 techs
    Viking: 4 cities, 11 techs; allied with Russians, war with me
    Aztec: 2 cities, 9 techs; war with Americans
    American: 2 cities, 9 techs; war with Aztecs
    Mongol: 3 cities, 12 techs; war with Russians

    -0950 Aztec -> 50g. American -> 25g.
    -0900 Russian warrior and Viking horseman killed. Mongol -> 0g, Aztec -> 50g.
    -0875 4 Crusaders attack Uppsala and kill its 2 Phalanx defenders with one crusader lost. The city is taken for 13g, Wheel, and Barracks. Rejected Viking offer of Warrior Code for cease fire, but accepted offer of 50g.
    -0825 Bristol founded on the north shore. Leicester founded
    -0800 Russian Chariot attacks Gloucester and kills a warrior. Hanging Gardens built in London which celebrates. Russian chariot killed.
    -0775 Accepted Viking offer of 50g for peace. Viking Hladir wants an unbelievable 580 to revolt!
    -0750 Accepted Russian offer of 200g for cease fire.
    -0725 Russian embassy established. Russian -> 0g. Mongol -> 75g.
    -0700 Broke cease fire with Russians and attacked Kiev. Vet Crusader kills single defender of Kiev. The city is captured for 6g. Minsk bribed for 230g. Got 5g and Phalanx.
    -0675 Horseman lost attacking a Viking archer.
    -0650 Russian warrior dies in attack on Minsk. Carlisle founded. Second trireme produced, this one for the outer sea.
    -0625 Colossus built. Viking archer killed by vet crusader. Russian warrior killed. Mongol -> 100g. Aztec -> 25g.
    -0600 Vet Chariot on rivered mountain survives Russian attack but barely. Vet crusader kills another Viking archer. Ipswich founded. Horseman dies in attack on St. Petersburg. Babylonian -> 0g, American -> 25g.
    -0575 Crusader kills Phalanx defender of St. Pete. The undefended city is surrounded by 5 units. Portsmouth founded. Babylonian -> 0g.
    -0550 Rivered mountain protects my units one more time. Defenseless St. Petersburg captured for 27g
    -0525 Medicine -> Construction. American -> 25g.
    -0500 Crusader survives Viking warrior. Moscow investigated. It has 2 Phalanx and it is building city walls. 2 fresh vet crusaders kill the defenders and one wounded crusader captures the city for 27g. Russian civilization destroyed. Berwick founded south east of Babylon. Stupid Russians have left a hut near Moscow. Babylonian -> 25g. Mongol -> 0g

    Status at -0500
    Population: 1.0M; Cities: 32; Techs:19; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 60; Cost: 1; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus
    Units: 13 settlers, 38 warriors, 3 Phalanx, 1 none chariot, 7 Crusaders, 2 triremes, 1 diplomats, 6 vans
    Goals: Conquest of Vikings, Republic, Michelangelo, trade routes
    Russian: Destroyed by me
    Babylonian: 3 cities, 11 techs
    Viking: 4 cities, 15 techs; war with me
    Aztec: 2 cities, 10 techs; war with Americans
    American: 3 cities, 10 techs; war with Aztecs
    Mongol: 3 cities, 15 techs;

    -0475 Math from the last hut. Birmingham founded.
    -0450 Babylonian -> 25g.
    -0425 Discovered Rome (size 1) north of Trondheim. My army is nearby and can raze it this turn but I am afraid if I do so, I will get a respawn at a less convenient location. American -> 0g
    -0400 5 crusaders (3 vets) attack Trondheim which turns out to be defended by just two warriors despite Vikings having Bronze Working! The city is captured without any casualties for 27g and Iron Working. 2 left over crusaders move on Kaupang. The vet one kills its defending archer and the other one captures the city for 10g, Warrior Code, and Barracks. There is a Viking chariot right outside of Kaupang which could raze the city next turn. Accepted Viking offer of 50g for peace. Maybe I will just purchase their 2 remaining cities. Mongol -> 25g. Romans declare war when I demand tribute.
    -0375 Mongols and Vikings start fighting again. Americans finally discover Republic. Michelangelo built. London celebrates. First infrastructure, a Library in London, is built. Trade -> American -> Republic, 0g. Republic -> Babylonian, Aztec, Mongol.
    -0350 Vikings develop Feudalism and leave the vicinity of Kaupang. Single defender of Rome killed and the city razed. Roman civilization destroyed. Celtic settler appears next to another crusader which kills it. Celtic civilization destroyed. Despite having no capital, Viking Hladir (which has grown to size 6) wants 324 to defect, way more than I can raise. Babylonian, Mongol -> 25g; Viking, American -> 0g; Aztec -> 50g. Barracks sold. The current assault force of 7 crusaders and one vet chariot ought to be enough. Revolution started. T2L6S2
    -0325 Celt settler reappears near the same place, demands mapmaking, and declares war. Crusader kills Celt settler. Babylonian, Mongol -> 25g; Viking, American -> 0g. I have 4 units ready to attack Aarhus, but if I do I get stuck with Feudalism. I cannot eliminate Vikings this turn as I have no units positioned to attack Hladir. I am going to pass. Republic established. T6L4S0
    -0300 10 cities celebrate.
    -0250 Russian settler shows up near Richmond and demands mapmaking. I reject their demand, they ask for peace, I reject that too, and senate backs me up. Spice from island city of Abskun to Babylon for 324 establishes the first trade route. T3L4S3
    -0225 Construction -> Engineering.
    -0200 London reaches size 8. Germs from Uppsala to London for 156 establishes the first domestic route.
    -0175 Domestic deliveries for 88, 92. Hormoz founded near Mongols.
    -0125 Engineering -> Sanitation. Copper to Vikings for 20. Beads to Bokhara for 72. Domestic deliveries for 154.
    -0100 Gems to Samarkand for 126. Copper to Bokhara for 36.
    -0075 Sanitation -> Seafaring. Salt to Babylon for 156. Domestic deliveries for 44.
    -0050 Shakespeare built in London which is now size 11. Domestic deliveries for 48. Sevastopol founded.
    -0025 Domestic deliveries for 96. Sanitation -> Babylonian -> Banking.

    Status at +0001
    Population: 4.8M; Cities: 37; Techs:27; Government: Republic
    Gold: 18; Cost: 13; Trade routes: 12D6F;
    Wonders: Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Michelangelo, Shakespeare
    Units: 24 settlers, 8 warriors, 3 Phalanx, 1 none chariot, 7 Crusaders, 2 triremes, 5 diplomats, 21 vans
    Goals: Building one more city on the west (2 turns), one in the center, and 3 more on the east; getting rid of American Philadelphia; capturing or bribing Mongol Nishapur (could have done this many turns before and only delayed because of Feudalism); Conquest of Vikings?; more trade routes; Copernicus; King Richards?; Democracy
    Notes: London is size 12 and will be making a sewer system next turn.
    Vikings are still without a capital.
    Once the 5 planned cities are founded there will be just a few unused tiles left scattered around the world.
    Russian: Destroyed by me
    Roman: Destroyed by me
    Celt: Twice destroyed by me
    Russian: One wandering settler
    Babylonian: 3 cities, 15 techs
    Viking: 2 cities, 19 techs;
    Aztec: 2 cities, 16 techs; war with Americans
    American: 3 cities, 17 techs; war with Aztecs
    Mongol: 4 cities, 19 techs;
     

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