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GOTM 174 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Jokemaster, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    Pre-game notes: Going to try EL this time around. Not an OCC. Emperor level. Will need defenders since this is a CQC map. So no early republic.

    Something, something something something DateLine.

    Since we can’t sack an undefended city, the premium for popping one of the 2 huts with our only one settler is probably not worth the loss of 4 turns. Will build a warrior for exploration first. Then, size 1 as usual. Maybe size-1 twice? Limited land needs to be grabbed quickly and we have the necessary resource squares for it. It would probably require a gold hut pop tho since we’ll be building the second settler on 2 shields, and a random AT could screw the whole thing as well. Would need the 20s slot as well, so researching HBR first is a necessity. Don’t forget to swap to Gems on 4th turn with 1 shield left!

    Of course, being able to choose the better of 3 outcomes for the first 3 hut pops will help quite a bit. Here’s to 3 barbs in a row!

    Will use my AI-patched EXE for this game. I have no need for the Find City feature. (Bugged on mine.)

    Here’s my old template for Statuses, waaaaay back from GOTM118. Copypasta is delicious.
    Population: 4.07 mil Cities: 91 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 34 (researching
    Gold: 158 T4L0S6 Income/Cost per turn: 16income, Cost0. Production: 215MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids, Marco, Mikes, HG, Leo’s, Cope. Currently building Mag’s
    Units: 18 Settlers (nearly half of them nomads from the great ice cap) 1 legion, 3 pikemen, 19 crusaders, 38 caravels, 11 caravans.
    Russians: 3 cities, 19 techs (including Chivalry, which I don’t have) 5 units. War
    Japanese: Destroyed by me
    Spanish: 6 cities, 14 techs (including Bridge Building, which I don’t have) 19 units. War
    Chinese: 4 cities, 26 techs (including Bridge Building, which I don’t have) 10 units, peace. Currently building GL twice
    Greeks: 8 cities, 16 techs. 20 units. Peace. They have Colossus. Currently building KRC
    Indians: 5 cities, 26 techs. 11 units. Peace. They have Lighthouse. Currently building GL

    From the wise words of Mario: Heeeere we gooooo!


    4000 BC: Rome built on starting location. With only 3 landmasses, I don’t think I need to add the continent number at the end of each and every city name.

    3950 BC: Start researching HBR. Prefer HBR above BW because I may be able to get a quick kill on… actually I won’t, rivers+forted warriors defeats a horseman. Why am I doing this? Am I hoping for Poly from a hut? This is kinda weird. One off-path tech to Trade, should have went BW instead. Not like I’ll need MPE anyways.

    3900 BC: 2 turns spent on pheasant when I didn’t mean it. I hope it doesn’t make me grow too early.

    3850 BC: Switch worker to Gems. Warrior will be ready next turn nonetheless.

    3800 BC: Worker back on normal forest.

    3750 BC: Save before popping 1st hut. Results are: Archer, Archer… and 50gold. I’ll take the 50gold. Don’t want another unit, so will head west. Actually… no scrap that. I’m not ready for an AT pop and I definitely don’t want barbs. I’ll pop the 2nd hut near the city, hopefully I can disband a unit for shields.

    3700 BC: Rush shields in Rome.

    3600 BC: HBR > Burial. Rush 4s in Rome.

    3550 BC: Did I seriously name my folder “GOTM175?” Oh-no-I-didn’t. (First time I'm organizing my saves like that.) Save before popping 2nd hut. Results: Archer, Archer and… Archer. Okay! That had a 23.4% chance of happening. Will disband immediately to get the 1st settler out ASAP and get better rushbuys for the first 2 rows of my 2nd settler.

    Interturn: German civ destroyed by Indians. Ohh snap! Hopefully it’s an offshore respawn. Would be real nice to have a Colossus van dump city. Wonder if it’s worth not building Colossus in the first place… not many essential ancient wonders in this map anyways outside of HG and maybe Sun Tzu’s. (And Lighthouse if trading, I guess.)

    3500 BC: Archer disbanded in Rome. Will get a settler out next turn.

    3450 BC: First size-1 Settler created. RB the first row, 30g remaining. Wait, this makes no sense, shouldn't this have been done next turn? Huh. I'll assume this is a typing mistake. Nope it's not... why did I do that?

    3400 BC: Hut sighted. To pop or not to pop? Could risk an AT, but could also get some gold to speed up the second settler. And with the first one already out, is that such a bad thing in the first place to get an AT now? Don’t have the gold to get the 2nd size-1 very soon, so the risk will be taken, right now. Results: NONE horseman, weeds and another NONE horseman. I’ll take the 3rd outcome and forget to save for a good while. Rush 8s in Rome. From hut pops, I’m guessing that the NE tribe got a horseman and killed the SE tribe. I’ll take a risk and grab the NE hut. Hope for some gold. I think my huts were pretty good!

    3350 BC: Hut is GONE! Oh wow.

    3300 BC: Meet Indians: They demand HBR, yes, peace. Find the city of BERLIN.

    Interturn: Meet Babs, peace. Indian horse is moving my way out of Berlin… my luck is gonna go south real fast!

    3250 BC: 4th hut: AT of Véies!! Well, that plan lasted long. Unfortunately the city's in a bad spot.

    3200 BC: Still ZOC-blocked by Indians, and spot a Persian horse SE of Berlin.

    Interturn: Find Aztecs: Trade HBR for Code of Laws. Peace.

    3150 BC: Still ZOC-blocked at Berlin. 5 turns on next Berlin settler.

    Interturn: Indians force-TP my horse back to capital. Pfew, thought they’d sneak.
    3050 BC: Warrior in Véies.

    3000 BC: Antium built. The DateLine bug stands true. My power is Inadequate with 4 citizens, wtheck?

    2950 BC: Hut: AT of Cumes. Well, that delay-popping-4+squares-away-from-my-capital-huts-strategy worked out pretty dang well in the end. Even the horseman gave me that second AT. Dunno if you can call it “luck” since we get a best-of-three choice, but things are coming up Milhouse. Only problem is that the cities are on the west end of the DateLine, so Antium will need a lot of settlers RB’d to support the east end. See another hut…

    Interturn: Aaaand popped by a Carthaginian settler. Peace, trade HBR for Burial. I’m at 0, so should be able to research Mon next turn. They got a horseman.

    2900 BC: > Monarchy. Odd spot where I have Alphabet still yet to be researched! Techrate 12 turns.

    2850 BC: Meet Persian settler. Trade CoL for Masonry. First overlapped city Naples is built 2 squares from Rome. Feels really weird to be ICSing and seeing those cities grow to size-20 really soon. (Post-game edit: or will they?) Makes it really hard to guesstimate how much true overlap there will be using the grid view. Up to 5 cities from the first push. That number will now stagnate for a bit. Power is Mighty. Will probably switch on oedo year 2450, turn 32.

    2650 BC: Find city of Delhi… directly north! Hut: NONE chariot.

    2550 BC: Monarchy > BW. Persians: Refuse alliance, but they trade BW for Monarchy.

    2500 BC: > Currency. REVOLUTION, thanks autosave.

    2450 BC: Monarchy.

    2350 BC: Rome, Véies, settlers. Second-to-last settler in Rome. I’m really putting a lot of value on getting the landgrab ASAP. Actually, scrap that. The peat moss city will do.

    2150 BC: Pompéi built near Carthage. One hell of an aggressive move right there.

    Indians: They remove troops from Pompéi. Nervous moment. Had a chariot ready to take out the horseman but I don’t want my eastward expansion to be interfered. Rome Warriors, starts a placeholder wonder.

    2050 BC: Pise built. The Indians remove troops again. Someday someone will stand up to my imperialistic tendencies.. but who am I kidding, this ain’t MGE. Except it is. Techrate 12 turns. Will keep researching techs until I have Pottery and Trade.

    1950 BC: Aztecs warn me to leave Teotihuacan.

    STATUS AT 1950 BC: (Beginning of 42nd turn)
    Population: 130.000 Cities: 7 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 6 (researching Currency)
    Gold: 3 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 1 income, 0 cost. Production: 22MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: None. Currently building placeholder Pyramids
    Units: 3 Settlers, 8 Warriors, 1 Horseman, 1 Chariot.

    All civs met, peace, except blue civ that got wiped out by purple civ. I don’t know if I got a respawn or not. MPE is not enough of a priority to find out. HG first and foremost. Also am not very well set up for an SSC specials-wise since I was prioritizing DateLine placement instead of 4-special-city placement. Sadly the one or two ocean squares are blocking a lot of fine city sites… rip. Hut luck was great. I don’t want any retakes. What I want instead is enough escort units for my remaining settlers. Will probably end building Colossus in Naples, not a lot of not-London overlap on that city and the one gem square will help. Meh site still. AT’s are pretty trolly in location sometimes. One square SE of Véies… Bang, right on the money.
     
  2. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Spain
    Here is my log. I was lucky to get an AT on the very first hut (I though this was not possible before having one city or after XX turns…) and then huts were ok but not exceptional. I only could get a few huts, AI got many of them. I'll try to go for GOTM score I think. Hoping for two offshore respawn.

    This first part is only on expansion, no wonders, only settlers, warriors and phalanxes. No more research after Trade (which was not even used, I should have turned gold as soon as getting monarchy). AI is doing research for me for the moment.

    -4000 Move north
    -3950 Hut: 1) AT 2) Archer 3) 25g. Obviously I choose AT and founded my capital Rome(1)
    -3900 -> CB
    -3800 Veii(2) (39, 29). Both cities working feasant. Warrior going east.
    -3650 Hut: 1) 50g 2) HBR 3) 50g. Choose 50g. RB warrior and 1st settler row.
    -3600 CB -> Alpha
    -3550 Hut: 1) Alpha 2) Archer 3) HBR. Choose Alpha.
    -3500 -> BW
    -3450 Hut: empty
    -3350 We are the least advanced. Hut: 50g. Meet German: get BW.
    -3250 Meet Aztecs. Berlin is surrounded by 5 civ warrior or horses :)
    -3150 Antium(3) possible SSC 4 specials. Hut: 50g.
    -3050 Met Mongols: they ask for 50g. War.
    -3000 Mongols warrior dies on attacking mine.

    Stats at 3000BC:
    pop.: 30k; Cities: 3; Techs: 3; Gold: 61; Gov.: desp.; Wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 settler (2 in prod.), 2 warrior
    Goals: expand asap;

    Germans : neutral, peace
    Aztecs : receptive, peace
    Indians : enraged, war

    -2900 Cumae(4) possible SSC 4 specials.
    -2850 CoL -> Monarchy. Hut: HBR. Giv all techs to Mongols.
    -2650 Neapolis(5).
    -2600 Met Carthagenians, Peace.
    -2400 Pompeii(6) founded.
    -2250 Monarchy -> Currency. Oedo year, so switch to monarchy.
    -2200 Get currency from Aztecs, no possible alliance.
    -2150 -> Trade
    -2050 Pisae(7) founded.

    Stats at 2000BC:
    pop.: 130k; Cities: 7; Techs: 7; Gold: 20; Gov.: mon.; Wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 2 settler (7 in prod.), 2 phallanx, 2 warriors
    Goals: expand asap; early conquer most civs; leave purple and maybe one more.

    Babylonians : neutral, peace (?)
    Germans : neutral, peace (no techs)
    Aztecs : receptive, peace (currency)
    Persians : neutral, peace (?)
    Carthaginians : neutral, peace (polytheism)
    Indians : cordial, peace (?)

    -1950 Ravena(8) founded.
    -1750 Tax: 7.0.3
    -1700 Trade -> Pottery. Baracks: will build many phallanx
    -1650 Hispalis(9)
    -1550 Get Pottery from Persians. Virocnium(10)
    -1500 Lugdunum(11) founded.
    -1400 Lutetia(12) founded.
    -1350 Byzantium(13) founded.
    -1250 Brundisium(14) founded.

    Stats at 1000BC:
    pop.: 340k; Cities: 14; Techs: 9; Gold: 11; Gov.: mon.; Wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 7 settler, 8 phallanx, 6 warriors
    Goals: more expansion; early conquer most civs; leave purple and maybe one more.

    Babylonians : neutral, peace (?)
    Germans : neutral, peace (?)
    Aztecs : receptive, peace (currency)
    Persians : neutral, peace (masonery, wheel)
    Carthaginians : neutral, peace (polytheism)
    Indians : cordial, peace (map making, wheel)
     
  3. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Spain
    I don't get why a unit for shields would be better than an AT, even if that would prevent size-1-trick. Especially as you may work pheasant, so early second city seem much better than some food you can get with size-1-trick ?
     
  4. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    I would have preferred to delay that hut pop to build a size-1 and have Rome be size 2 straight after w/20 food in the box, so Rome's next settler would have gone out faster than if Rome was size 1. I was especially worried about getting out the first size-1 out ASAP in the event that I wasn't able to size-1 twice, then at least I'd have one done. (Which did happen, with the AT Véies.)

    Fortunately, the hut that I avoided popping 2nd did give out an AT no matter what in the end (Cumes) so it worked out in my favour regardless.
     
  5. lasingularidad

    lasingularidad Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2015
    Messages:
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    Location:
    Spain
    The next 500 years where devoted to more expansion, and hexagon is now crowded of cities. It will be time for warfare.

    -975 Get Mysticism from Carthagenians. No alliance cause don't want war with indians.
    -950 -> Writing. Syracuse(15) on coal hill, Caesaraugusta(16).
    -925 -> Literacy.
    -850 Get map making from indians, and Polytheism from Carthaginians. Nobody wants to share maps.
    -825 Palmyra(17).
    -800 Jerusalem(18). Caesarea(19).
    -775 Get Literacy from Babylonians. -> Masonery. Get Masonery from Persians. Tarentum(20) founded.
    -700 Nicomedia(21)
    -675 Seleucia(22). Artaxata(23). Tax 3.0.7 to get philo before others. Persepolis has walls.
    -650 Aurelianorum(24)
    -625 Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Republic. Hippo Regius(25)
    -600 Nicopolis(26)
    -525 Hanging Gardens in SSC (35, 27). Londinium(27); Eburacum(28); Arretium(30)
    -500 Gordion(30). This will probably be my last city for now as there is no more room. Prepare for war.

    Stats at 500BC:
    pop.: 680k; Cities: 30; Techs: 17; Gold: 112; Gov.: mon.; Wonders: HG; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 7 settler, 10 phallanx, 25 warriors, 1 elephant, 1 crusaders
    Goals: start trade; start conquest; build Mikes; leave purple with at most one city; then republic
     
  6. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
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    Interturn: Aztecs warn me to leave Tenochitlan.

    1900 BC: Ravenne built. The NE peninsula is mine. Véies settlers.

    1850 BC: Currency > Trade. T7L0S3 to get some Phalanxes out ASAP. Hispalis built. Things are getting really crowdy! (Postgame edit: They were useful exactly once. Mistake IMO.)

    Interturn: Babs order us to leave Ur. We comply.

    1750 BC: Babs: They remove troops. Indians: They remove troops. 34 turns left on Pyramids. Viroconium built. There might be a hidden special SE of Rome, of the whale variety… if it turns out to be silk, then maybe Rome can be a suitable SSC as well.

    1650 BC: T3L0S7.

    1550 BC: Indians tell us they know IW.

    1500 BC: Carths tell us to bugger off from Utique. What the heck is that city doing miles away from its capitol? Don’t ask. But it’s a huge wrench in my eastern colonization plans. City of Pasaragades found: expansion west is also grinded to a stop. That city’s in a really bad spot as well. Swap to Colossus in Rome. Lugunudum built as a second DateLine city.

    1450 BC: With no space left to expand, things are getting hot in here!

    Interturn: Babs warn us to leave Nineve.

    1400 BC: Persépolis building a settler allows us to steal its whale. Wut?!? Spot Aztec city of Tlatelcoco, stealing Pise’s wheat. Darnit! The AI is making it hard to properly manage city placement. Expansion is almost RIP if I can’t get rid of Utique somehow. But even then, the Indians probably already built cities NE.

    1350 BC: Trade > Pottery. Must have forgotten to write down T3L0S7 at some point.

    1250 BC: Aztecs about to conquer Utique. If the city is razed, the problem disappears. CRAP, Utique is size 2! Am I well-positioned for a sneak? Babs: Trade something for Map Making. Indians: Trade something for Mysticism. Aztecs: Trade something for math. Is trying to skip Alphabet even feasible? I have to rely on someone to get Writing…

    Interturn: Aztecs take Utique. Things aren’t rosy anymore.

    1200 BC: Lutèce built eastwards.

    1150 BC: T7L0S3 to rush a Phalanx next turn. Véies settler starts mining suspected special square.

    1100 BC: T3L0S7. Carths: Trade Mathematics for Warrior Code. Eh…

    975 BC: Van in ROME: Colossus in 2 turns. Whether that special is silk or pheasant (or if it even exists at all) is now all up to chance. Let’s try this now.

    950 BC: Trade Monarchy to Indians for Writing. They offer an alliance: Ok, let’s try that! If it allows me to scout the NE and get some cities down, then I’m down. They request war on Carths: sorry, but no. The offer doesn’t hold.

    STATUS AT 950 BC: (Beginning of 63rd turn)
    Population: 410.000 Cities: 12 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 13 (researching Pottery)
    Gold: 26 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 7 income, 0 cost. Production: 50MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: None. Colossus done next turn in maybe-a-2-specials-SSC Rome.
    Units: 7 Settlers, 12 Warriors, 1 Horseman, 1 Chariot, 11 Phalanxes.
    Peace with everyone. Still no sign of a dark blue respawn.

    925 BC: ROME COLOSSUS. Aztecs: They agree to remove troops. Byzance built. Babs remove troops. This is way too easy, maybe if some militaristic civs were in there it becomes harder. MPE started in Rome. Brundisium built. Indian city of Bombay found.

    Now, what is the plan? I have full control of the left-hand side but I was unable to fill out the right-hand side in time. With settler space running out, soon I have to make a decision. Do I build temples and go for Republic (which implies HG and Seafaring, to develop the off-center landmasses) or do I go for conquest of all but Indians? (Which implies Sun Tzu) I’m already building MPE in any case to check on the blue civ’s status. Trade Advisor didn’t tell of any respawns: usually it shows the enemy capital’s supply and demand lists even if you haven’t met the civ yet. But I don’t know if it’s the same for respawns, or if there was a respawn at all. Can still wage war in Republic if I build GW and make use of the emissary’s ploy. Actually… that doesn’t sound that bad! The Aztecs are the only ones that entered the wonder race, Pyramids.
    I’ll go Poly next no matter what. Want some deterrence that holds up real well. The AI has been passive so far, but better safe than sorry. Will probably wait on MPE to make a decision. If there is no respawn, then there is no need to hang on to the warrior slot. Vet ellies should suffice if I go Sun Tzu’s. But do I really need to?!? Pise and Lutèce can potentially support a lot of units, they can take care of the whole thing by themselves. Swap to Barracks in Pise.

    900 BC: Pottery > Polytheism. Aztecs: They remove troops. These catapults make me NERVOUS. Really need to raze Utique to the ground, sooner than later.

    850 BC: Syracuse built. Silk special uncovered near Rome! T’was a good one. Sadly Naples is not in position to abuse it as well. So many city sites ruined by forests or ocean. Techrate 9 turns.

    825 BC: Van in Rome: 112s left for MPE. Road network coming along OK. Hopefully someone ends up respawning offshore…

    800 BC: Pompéi temple. Van in Rome: 59s left for MPE.

    675 BC: See an Elephant out of Persépolis.. and discover the advance the next turn. Darnit! Start researching Alphabet, sorry but I can’t wait to see if anyone discovered Literacy. MPE not up in time. Persians: Trade Trade for Alphabet.

    650 BC: >Literacy. 2 cities barracks. Aztecs: Troops withdrawn. MPE next turn, HG will be 6 turns after that.

    Interturn: Babs start Pyramids. Worthless wonder on this map.

    625 BC: Rome MPE, HG started. Soon I’ll have even more arrows in Rome!... wait, the city’s size 4. NO DARK BLUE RESPAWN. No useful techs can be gained. Aztecs only civ with more than 3 cities. 50s left in Rome for HG. My RMS is very high but I’m still sheepish about tribute since they have lots of idle offensive units, (catapults and I’m guessing some barracks as well) and I have few to counterattack.

    575 BC: Aztecs almost done with Pyramids.

    550 BC: Tenochitlan builds Pyramids. Babs abandon. Phil won’t be available for next research choice… thankfully I can trade for IW. Always handy to keep one or two techs with the AI.

    500 BC: Babylone early city walls. Come on… there’s no time… THERE IS 700,000 PEOPLE ON BOARD OF THIS NATION I’VE GOT TO STOP THEM!

    Interturn: Aztecs research Astronomy. Oh boy…

    475 BC: Trade Literacy to Aztecs for Astronomy. The poor fools don’t see the blade behind their back. I think I can get away with Cope’s first if I act quickly enough. Just need enough determination for the job and I should be fine.

    450 BC: > Philosophy. Babs: They remove troops as tribute.

    Interturn: Indian sneak attack! Their horse loses to a Phalanx in Ravenne.

    425 BC: Can’t really pose a threat to Indian cities because Utique’s in the way. Can destroy their army tho. This is gonna delay the attack on Aztecs for a bit, but not much I can do. Van in Rome: 41s left for Cope’s. (5 turns)

    400 BC: More Indian troops killed.

    375 BC: More Indian troops killed. Aztecs: They remove troops as tribute. Going to need a sneak attack at this rate. This is a serious roadblock, I probably should have built Temples and gone for early Repu instead. I’m not actually doing anything right now other than building temples, wonders and (idle) ellies. Meanwhile, the walls are being built…

    350 BC: More Indian troops killed. They gotta be thinned out by now. Going to try attacking the Indians first before they get Poly. Carths: 75g. Aztecs: They remove troops.

    300 BC: Chariot survives attack from Indian warrior. Will attack Berlin next turn. Rome Cope’s, starts HG. 2 vans in Rome: 100s left for HG.
    Interturn: Babs are seriously behaving weird.

    275 BC: They remove troops nonetheless. Attack Berlin: only 1 Phalanx defending. Cue Staples “that was easy” button. Berlin stormed for 48g+1citizen+IW. Aztecs are Uncooperative. Bombay next turn. Hopefully they only have 1def as well. Need to hold off on Delhi since I still plan on EarlyishLanding even if it doesn’t really show. Tlatelcoco size 7! Pyramids doin’ work. Aaaand just hit the 20th tech, still no Mono or Repu. Dangit man!

    250 BC: Kill 1 Archer in Bombay: Bombay stormed for 54g+1citizen+Barracks. Accept 150g for a cease-fire. Only need to get rid of Utique and NE peninsula will be secure. Start building a direct road between Pise and Tlatelcoco. Tenochitlan just built walls! I’ll have to plan for a dip to check on the defenses. Antium will be building Mikes, Rome needs to get city improvements out.

    225 BC: Aztecs: WAR when I ask them to remove troops. Will sacrifice my settler for a full route between Tlateloco and Pise. Kill Aztec warrior near Teotihuacan. Kill Aztec catapult near Lugdunum. Will attack Utique next turn. City walls started in Viroconium.(Postgame edit: why..) Sooner or later they’ll not withdraw as well.

    Interturn: Lose settler near Tlateloco. Bab troops near Viroconium.

    200 BC: Kill 1 Archer in Utique: Utique stormed for 27g. All this offensive army killed on the field and so few garrisons… Start GW in Antium as a placeholder for Mikes. Walls rushed in Viroconium. (double why) Tlateloco next turn? Techrate 9 turns.

    Interturn: Aztecs lose an ellie againt my vet Phalanx.

    175 BC: Kill settler near Tlateloco, then kill Archer+Warrior in Tlateloco. Tlateloco seized for 82g+5 citizens, need 2 Elvises to maintain the peace but no food shortages. Indians: 50g for peace.

    150 BC: ¸Philosophy > Monotheism > Republic. Rome HG, the city celebrates. 32 beakers for a size 4. Going to attack Teotuihacan in 2 turns.

    125 BC: Trade Philosophy to Persians for Construction. They profess friendship. They can be left alone. Babs will have to be dealt with: if someone respawns south, then Nineve needs to be conquered.
    Interturn: Carths trade The Wheel for something inoffensive.

    100 BC: Library rushed in Rome. Kill 2 units in Teotuihacan: Teotuihacan stormed for 72g+4citizens. Will attempt an attack on the Aztec capital in 2 turns. Hopefully I get an offshore respawn.

    75 BC`: Babs: They remove troops. 7 mounted units will attack the Aztec capital next turn. Van in Antium: 120s left for Mikes.
    Interturn: Aztec settler goes in Tenochitlan. My Phalanx survives Archer attack.

    50 BC: The Aztecs have 4! Units inside the city! Not counting settler. Lose 4 Ellies. That’s disaster. Definitely need dips. Still have 5 mounted, six soon. Mikes should be ready in 3 turns.

    STATUS AT 1 AD: (Beginning of 101st turn)
    Population: 1.750.000 Cities: 20 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 23 (researching The Republic)
    Gold: 111 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 27 income, 10 cost. Production: 99MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco’s, Cope’s, HG in SSC Rome. Mikes done next turn in Antium.
    Units: 8 Settlers, 12 Warriors, 28 Phalanxes, 1 Horseman, 1 Chariot, 4 Elephants, 2 Crusaders, 1 Trireme, 3 Diplomats, 2 Caravans.
    Peace with everyone. Aztecs, Indians down to 1 city. Dark blue civ dead.

    So… yeah. Dunno what I was thinking attacking w/o dip support on a walled city with river defensive bonus but now I have to pay. They had a lot more units than I had previously seen in cities. I’m guessing 4 city improvements. Maybe 5.

    Gonna take a while before I clean this up.

    Postgame edit: Also, I had bad city spacing for an EL game, was building as usual planning for size 20's but straight up didn't have the time/cash for the needed mkts and aqueducts. So I have bad number of cities but pretty well developed still. Playing again up to the Corporation era (rip RL time, last university semester) and I'm about 8ish turns ahead of the pacing set in my official submission.
     
  7. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    20 AD: Cumes Mikes. Babs: Tribute. WAR. That didn’t work… T7L0S3. Republic switch in 60 AD. Will try another attack with 5 dips in time.
    Interturn: Repel some Bab attacks.

    40 AD: Lose an ellie to the Babs. I will have to call off the attack again, they’re in the way. I’m spending lots of efforts on war, but temples are being built. SSC infrastructure lagging tho.

    60 AD: Republic > Seafaring. REVOLUTION. Monarchy established. Carths: 50g. Republic established. T8L0S2, need cash to buy city improvements in Rome and celebrate to size 12.

    80 AD: Every time I start a new game, stuff is unchecked in the City Relation screen… (third option set in the Game tab) Didn’t get a WLTPD message in Rome. 2 Bab units killed. I’ll try to precharge a settler and build a fortress near Tenochitlan: if the Senate stops me, then too bad. Indians: They remove troops.

    100 AD: 3 turns until the settler arrives to Tenochitlan. Rush Mktplace in Rome, size 6.

    120 AD: I would still love to get the Pyramids to make the “helper” cities get to size 8 on their own. Investigate Tenochitlan: 2 improvements, 4 units inside. Van in Rome to create the first trade route.

    140 AD: Rome size 8, Colosseum rushed. That’s weird, Mikes+Temple is only pacifying 5 citizens despite having Mysticism and not having Communism, so it should be 6…

    160 AD: Kill Aztec settler. Maybe I can attack next turn instead…
    Interturn: Aztecs develop Construction.

    180 AD: 3 dips blow up Settlers, Temple, and City Walls in Tenochitlan. Kill 4 units inside the city, losing one crusader. Tenochitlan captured for Pyramids+94g+3 citizens. AZTEC CIV DESTROYED BY ROMANS. Yes, this is an EL game. NO RESPAWN. Is the world map too small to get a respawn on the 2 intended landmasses? Anyways, I’ll continue on with my landgrab. Next target: Babylon.

    200 AD: Rome Aqueduct, size 9. T2L1S7.

    220 AD: Attack Ur: Lose 2 units to Legions. No walls and no rivers… really?? Wait. NOTE TO SELF: DO NOT TAKE BABYLONE. I can get a road bonus by trading there since the GOTO is easy to make. Same for Delhi, but purple civ, that’s obvious.

    240 AD: Seafaring > University. Techbomb the Indians a bit: among the techs given were Republic. Fortress built near Ur. Lutèce seems to be about to celebrate. Sell some of my barracks. Ur only 2 defenders, building GL. We attack in 2 turns. Senate doesn't seem to care.

    260 AD: Turns out there were 7 cities ready to celebrate at 20% luxes. Rome size 12, still supplying Hides. Gotta get as many vans out as possible before the cycle updates or we learn University. Babylone building GL as well. Pompéi silk (d) to Persépolis: 138g for the first trade route to foreign civs. Maybe time for a risky hop to populate the north side of the map. Cumes silver (d) to Suse: 54g.

    280 AD: Kill 2 defenders in Ur after suffering 1 casualty: Ur stormed for 90g+2 citizens. Césaraugusta built in SE peninsula now that the way is cleared. Babs: Senate forces peace treaty.

    300 AD: T2L0S8. University rushed in Rome. Indians: Alliance. I want ZOC immunity to get that road down.

    320 AD: Rome University, 150 beakers. Techrate 3 turns. Start placeholder wonder in Rome, soon to be Shakespeare’s. Rome dye (d) to Babylone: 188g. Actually scrap that, gold got unblocked and Delhi demands it. 190 beakers now. LOL, forgot about Byzance, it functions as a station city to Babylone already. That explains the +10. Sadly no such city for Delhi, which is why the alliance was needed. Give Republic to Babylonians and Persians. Risky trireme leap… doesn’t sink. I will have colonies up and running in due time. (And Pyramids as well!)

    340 AD: Medicine > Theory of Gravity. Going to cram those cities pretty tight on the north end. A settler from Tenochitlan will attempt south end soon. Going to settle before popping the hut north end because I want optimal city sites number-wise and no barbs pls. Don’t need Shakes right now with HG happiness. Techrate almost 2 turns.
    Interturn: Babs overthrow their gov’t.

    360 AD: Palmyre built. No room for cities anymore on main continent. Land on north landmass, will build 4 cities pretty tight together on the external landmasses.

    380 AD: Theory of Gravity > Engineering. Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 292g. Rome demands silk, but DO NOT deliver. I don’t want to risk having the Hides supply updated. (Postgame edit: Maaybe you should have taken a look at the Hides demand formula on Solo's guide? Sometimes the status quo won't cut it, if you know what I mean. JERUSALEM BUILT ON NORTHERN LANDMASS. 4 cities ICS style to maximize colony numbers. On the cusp of 2 turns a tech. Thank god for the Pyramids, will speed up expansion in colonies quite noticeably. Robust Monarchy seems like it worked out decently well. Inb4 Railroad at 500 AD from Major.

    400 AD: Engineering > Sanitation. Rome gold (d) to Delhi: 438g!!! I’ll make a push to celebrate helpers to size 8 and Rome to size 19 when I get Sanitation and Shakes. (Postgame edit: How cute.) Vans dumped in Rome: Hides stays, but Coal is unblocked. No city wants Coal anyways. 8 vans in Rome: Isaac Newton’s next turn should guarantee the advance.

    420 AD: Sanitation > Banking. Rome Isaac Newton’s. Rush Sewer System in Rome after disbanding horseman. 338g left. I should be ready for Shakes next turn in SSC. Southern hop will be attempted next turn.

    440 AD: T3L1S6. Leap of faith… works out. T1L6S3 to spark empire-wide celebrations. I’ll build JSB to take care of unhappiness issues, otherwise I have 2 red hats at size 8 and I don't want to deal with luxuries. Maybe celebrate to size 12 later? I’ll need mkts and trade routes first.

    460 AD: 19 cities celebrate. Disembark on southern landmass. Hut spotted, but I won’t pop it for fear of barbarians. Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 312g. T2L6S2. Currently disbanding crusaders to keep one van produced per turn in Rome. I have no need for Shakes yet.

    500 AD: Pop. Exceeds 5 million citizens. Trade The Wheel for Bridge Building to the Persians. Persépolis no longer demands Dye.

    STATUS AT 500 AD: (Beginning of 126th turn)
    Population: 5.580.000 Cities: 25 Government: Republic Total advances: 32 (researching Chemistry)
    Gold: 373 T2L6S2 Income/Cost per turn: 79 income, 32 cost. Production: 161MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco’s, Cope’s, HG, Isaac Newton’s in SSC Rome. Mikes in Antium. Pyramids conquered from the Aztecs.
    Units: 11 Settlers, 1 Warrior, 30 Phalanxes, 1 Elephant, 1 Crusader, 2 Trireme, 13 Caravans.
    Peace with everyone, allied with Indians. Indians down to 1 city, Babs under control. Yellow and dark blue civ dead.
    NOTES: Aztecs down, Babs were spared thanks to critical path cities. Pyramids are helping. Overall, not sure if more cities=better results, but building vans over and over again would not have helped when I was bottlenecked by tech anyways. Hopefully the easy access to the colonies will prove to be the better choice. Now, to build them… (and the shipchains for that matter)

    Is anyone else that's not lasingularidad started with this game?
     
  8. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    I started today.
    Jokemaster, nice job of putting down an entertaining log! :goodjob:
    I chose to go for OCC this time, so my game will be hardly comparable to yours.
    Here is my log:

    pre-game: I want a quick game, so it will be OCC. Starting location looks ok, but head for 1,27(map editor coordinates) instead.
    Pop the hut next to first, get a fast unit, maybe gold from the second hut to speed up for s1-settler? Republic or monarchy first?
    -4000 Moving north for hut
    -3950 Hut: 50g, HBR, Archer. We take the archer (heads east)
    -3850 Hut: Chariot, pottery, advanced tribe...hmm, we haven't found our city so far, might change plans...no, we take the chariot; Rom founded, work spice
    -3800 research Alphabet
    -3650 Hut(0,32): Archer, 50g, weeds. We take the gold. Next hut(10,20): Nomads! Perfect!
    -3600 Alph->Laws; Discover Berlin, sign peace, no tech exchange offered, no alliance; weeds from hut
    -3450 25g from hut
    -3350 s1-settler built, starts chopping down the city forest; somebody already popped the hut @28,24; discover Karthago, sign peace, they offer burial, we say yes since this should be a straight shot for monarchy! They also have myst., no alliance; switch production to temple
    -3300 Meet Aztecs, sign peace, they offer Bronze, no, sign alliance for burial, 25g from hut
    -3050 50g from hut;
    -2950 Discover Delhi, sign peace, no techs, no alliance
    -2750 Laws->Monarchy; 50g from hut;
    -2700 Weeds in hut;
    -2650 Settler re-settles in Rom, rush temple
    (Aztecs writing)
    -2600 temple built, warrior next
    -2550 Discover Babylon, the offer pottery, no, sign peace
    -2500 Warrior built, begin barracks
    -2400 22/40 beakers done
    -2350 Our units are teleported back home
    -2050 Where is my monarchy??? Args, key civ-shift, now we need 48 beakers...hail Aztecs to get Bronze, and they already have writing and currency! Get Curr.; now 60 bakers required, 42 done, we can get 5 by working oceans;
    -2000 Market place, start barracks again, silk uncovered

    stats at -2000:
    city size 3; techs: 4; units: 1 settler, 3 army; Gov: Desp; city: Temple, market; TR:0
     
  9. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    What is CQC?
    Exactly my thoughts and my plan.
    Yes, why are you doing this? With the best of 3 outcomes for first 3 huts you are highly likely to get a fast unit out of huts. Furthermore, walking into rival cities is out because of the other special rule.
    I too had a lot of these. At one point I moved my settler into a spot and it was immediately surrounded by 3 Indian units from different directions. I decided to risk it and found the city anyway. Thankfully they immediately removed troops when I asked them to.
    Those were my initial thoughts as well. In fact, I went ahead and established an embassy with Indians (whom I know will be there till the end). But as the hexagon is filling up and some city sites are out of reach because of rival units, I am contemplating war and wondering whether I should build Marco after all. It will definitely be after the Gardens and Colossus though.

    In nearly 20 years of playing Civ2 this is the first time I have heard of an advanced tribe before your first city.
    Actual trade rarely happens when you first discover trade. The big deal about prioritizing Trade is the ability to build caravans without which wonder building takes too long.
    Interesting choice. Why choose a tech that is worth about 20 arrows (being your second tech) when you cold get a unit worth 30 shields? Even if you do not need the unit, you could disband it for 15 shields speeding up settler production.
    Your thinking is ahead of mine. I only reached that conclusion in -1000.

    You could use the map editor to find out for sure.
    For me too, this was a bigger problem than I thought.
    Whether a civ is militaristic or civilized affects their preferences for techs (both at the time of research and at the time of gifts/exchanges). Their behavior towards other rivals is not affected by that trait, but rather by whether they are aggressive or rational. As mentioned in the game thread the civs here were chosen to be rational as much as possible. This was a deliberate choice to reduce tension in a crowded place.

    Without Theology, Michelangelo only pacifies 3 citizens not 4. Did you have any black heads? Those take twice as much to pacify.
    That is surprising to me. I expected those two islands to get the respawns but I did not play test.

    Wow, has anyone else seen this phenomenon (advanced tribe before you have built your first city) before? Could there be something special about this map that had it happen to two different players?
     
  10. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I started playing a few nights ago. I chose to play for landing before getting started.

    I founded Rome on the first turn and then built a warrior for hut hunting. Hut luck was good but not exceptional. I did manage to get to most huts before my rivals though.

    Originally went for size1 settler in Rome, but had to scrap that when I got an advanced tribe out of my third hut.

    I did my city placement to take maximum advantage of the dateline bug. While Rome, with 3 specials and two of them arrow specials, would do for a science city, I chose the site a few tiles to its west with 4 specials (banana, gems, silk, and pheasant).

    I have so far had excellent luck with my rivals. They pay tribute and remove troops when asked.
     
  11. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    -4000 The conditions are ideal for landing. Rome founded. Warrior started. Citizen or regular forest instead of pheasant for size 1 settler afterwards.
    -3950 -> Alphabet.
    -3800 Warrior produced and moved north. Settler started.
    -3750 First hut tipped. Chose Chariot over Archer and a second chariot. Chariots are so rare and I managed to get two of them in a row!
    -3700 Second hut tipped. Chose 100g over Masonry and archer. Will use the money to rush size 1 settler. Worker moved to pheasant.
    -3600 Alphabet -> Code of Laws. Third hut tipped. Chose Advanced tribe (Veii at 8,26) over Advanced Tribe and mapmaking. Size 1 settler plan is now mute.
    -3550 Hut yields none chariot. What is it with chariots in this game?
    -3500 Pottery from hut.
    -3450 50g from hut.
    -3400 100g from hut.
    -3350 Met German (1) warrior, accepted peace, rejected Bronze. My power is already supreme, no doubt because of all my money. None archer from hut. Chariot stops by Carthage (0). Accepted peace, rejected Bronze.
    -3300 Warrior Code from hut.
    -3200 Chariot stops by Delhi (2). Accepted peace, rejected Burial.
    -3100 Chariot runs into Babylonian warrior. Accepted peace, rejected Horseback riding.
    -3050 Antium founded.

    Status at -3000
    Population: 0.03M; Cities: 3; Techs: 3; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 217; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 1 settler, 1 warriors, 1 None archers, 2 Chariots (1 None)
    Goals: Expansion, Monarchy/Republic
    Babylonian: no embassy
    German: no embassy
    Aztec: no contact
    Persian: no contact
    Carthaginian: no embassy
    Indian: no embassy

    -2900 Met Aztec warrior, accepted peace, rejected Bronze.
    -2850 Cumae founded.
    -2800 Code of Laws -> Burial. Alphabet -> Indian -> Burial.
    -2750 -> Bronze. Archer runs into Persian warrior. Alphabet -> Persian (2) -> Bronze.
    -2700 -> Monarchy.
    -2650 Currency from the last hut on the main land.
    -2550 Neapolis founded.
    -2500 Aztec -> 25g. Pompeii founded at the 4 specials east of Rome. It will be the science city.
    -2250 Pisae founded.
    -2050 Monarchy -> Writing. Monarchy established. T3L0S7. Code of Laws -> Babylonian -> Writing.
    -2000 -> Trade. Ravenna founded. German -> 100g, Aztec -> 50g, Persian -> 25g, Carthaginian -> 100g, Indian -> 0g.

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.12M; Cities: 8; Techs: 9; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 246; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 1 settler, 1 warriors, 1 None archers, 2 Chariots (1 None)
    Goals: Expansion, Trade, Hanging Gardens, Colossus
    Babylonian: no embassy
    German: no embassy
    Aztec: no embassy
    Persian: no embassy
    Carthaginian: no embassy
    Indian: no embassy

    -1900 Persian -> 50g.
    -1800 Hispalis and Viroconium founded.
    -1750 First red head appears. Monarchy -> Aztec -> Mapmaking, 0g. Gifted mapmaking to all rivals. They all cut me off except Carthaginians who gifted me Mysticism. Lugdunum and Lutetia founded.
    -1700 Got Persian and Babylonian maps. Looks like most every rival has 2 cities.
    -1650 Byzantium founded.
    -1550 Brundisium founded. Got Indian and Aztec maps.
    -1450 Trade -> Masonry. Trade -> Babylonian -> Masonry.
    -1400 -> Literacy. Carthaginian -> 50g, Persian -> 25g, Aztec -> 25g, German -> 50g, Babylonian -> 0g. Indian embassy established.
    -1350 Indian -> 0g.
    -1300 Syracuse founded. Indian -> 0g
    -1250 Caesaraugusta founded.
    -1200 Aztec -> 25g
    -1150 Masonry -> Carthaginian -> 0g, Trade -> Persian -> 25g, Trade -> German -> Horseback riding for tribute.
    -1100 Palmyra founded. Indian -> 75g.
    -1050 Jerusalem founded. Babylonian -> 75g, Aztec -> 50g.
    -1000 Literacy -> Philosophy.

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.39M; Cities: 18; Techs: 15; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 54; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 1 settler, 15 warriors, 1 None archers, 2 Chariots (1 None), 3 vans
    Goals: Expansion, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, Monotheism
    Note: Once I get crusaders, I have to decide who to take out and who to leave other than Indians.
    Babylonian: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    German: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Aztec: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Persian: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Carthaginian: no embassy, 2 visible cities
    Indian: 2 cities, 10 techs;
     
  12. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    OHHHH. That explains my problem in GOTM 167 where Houses of God would only give me tithes for 3 people and not 4... wait... lemme check...

    Spoiler :
    Going a little offtopic, but please disgress. HoG's were attached to the Religion tech, linked to Philosophy. Maybe they were disabled up until researching Aviation Tactics? (the tech linked to Mono) Looking at the log, I got AvTac in March 1918, and noticed in April 1918 that they were working again... I think that's it, actually. (Confirmed, went in cheat mode.)
    (Unfortunately, Theo seems to be an impossible-to-obtain tech within the scenario: it's called "Pressure upon Germany" and is not referred to anywhere in events.txt and is impossible to research. Also, Improved Equipment Bomber Command ithink? seems to be equivalent to Mysticism, which explains Hospitals initially only working for one citizen.
    If I'm ever to replay this again, I'm going to have to fiddle a bit with the rules.txt and the .scn file itself to fix those things, since I'm pretty sure the scenario was balanced around HoGs working from the get-go. At least I know what's up now...


    BTW: CQC meant close quarters combat. AKA, lots of civs close to each other and lots of wandering military units with nothing else to do but blunder in my cities. Yep, I was scared. Seems like you had better luck on AI city placement than I did (or were ICSing more heavily)
     
  13. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Germany
    It happende to me before, during Gotm #129.
     
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I looked up the spoiler and see why you remember; it changed your plans for the game. You did not think it is possible but it happened. I am disappointed with myself for not remembering that. Thanks for the reminder.
     
  15. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Actually, there are a lot of memories coming back when I browse through the Gotm-index! For almost every game, I can remember what style I had played and roughly, what had happened....


    So, back to the present: I was a little nervous when all those AI units were walking in my territory, but all (except for the germans) agreed to ally. They were also very helpful with early techs.

    -1850 Mon(revolt+est.)->Writing; Hail Aztecs, get Writing, get 100g gift
    (Germany hails us and invites us to war with Babylon, no)
    -1800 Library built, research Trade
    -1600 Sign alliance with Carths, get 50g gift; Just now I realize we haven't met our southwest neighbor!
    -1450 Carths are at war with Germany;
    (Carths have mapmak.)
    -1400 Meet Persians, sign peace, they are at war with Carths
    -1300 Trade->Literacy; Ask for Aztec gift, get Bronze
    -1250 Get Myst from Carths, no gift
    (Carths get Math)
    -1150 Embassy with Germany
    -950 Sign alliance with India, ask for gift, get pottery
    -900 Get Literacy from Persia, they also have HBR, Mapmak., masonry, math, WC; alliance with Persia
    -875 Research republic;
    -850 150g from Carths
    -825 Alliance with Babylon, they gift mapmaking; first delivery for 36g
    -800 2nd van cahsed in for 30
    -725 Rep.(rev.+est.)->Philo; Celebrations begin
    -700 Ask for Aztec gift, get Masonry, India gifts Math;
    -650 Celebrations stop now that we reached size 8
    -625 25g from Carths
    -575 Colossus built
    -550 Construction from India
    -525 Just now Tenochtitlan drops out of silk-demand...
    -500 Silk(d) to Teotihuacan for 209
    -475 Philo->Medicine->Astro;
    -425 100g from Carths; Rom is size 9, can't celebrate further
    -375 hides(d)>Dhele 160g
    -300 Germans steel monarchy
    -275 Astro->Uni;
    -175 200g from Babylon
    -150 50g from India
    (India Wheel)
    -125 hides(d)>Bangalore 160
    -100 dye(d)>Babylon 192
    -75 Uni->Banking; Copernicus built;
    -50 Another "drop-out-of-demand"
    +1 Embassy with Babylon

    stats at 1 AD:
    city size 10; techs: 20; Gold: 317; units: 1 settler, 2 vans; 3 army; Gov: Rep; city: Temple, market, library, aquaeduct; Colossus, Copernicus; TR:3

    20 75g from Babylon
    80 Banking->Chemistry (args, forgot to get Wheel for engineering->Sanit.); Hides->Dehli 184
    100 100g from Aztecs, Embassy with India + Aztecs
    120 University; Get Wheel, seafaring, 100g from India
    180 Chem.->Economics(Really screwed up, Engineering not available); exchange maps with Persia and they settled on southern island! Will be hard to bribe a boat though...
    200 200g from India; Delhi is out of hides demand but Babylon is back in
    220 50g from Carths, Embassy with Carths
    240 hides(d)>Bangalore 168g
    280 Sell temple, putting vans into Shakespeare kills our hides supply
    300 Econ.->Engineering; Shakespeare built; Babylon is out of demand again, van heads back home
    380 Eng.->Sanitation(729);
    460 San.->Gravity; 100g from India; trigger celebrations
    480 50g from Persia
    500 200g from Babylon

    stats at 500 AD:
    city size 13; techs: 27; Gold: 385; units: 1 settler, 4 vans; 3 army; Gov: Rep; city: Market, library, aquaeduct, Bank, university, sewer; Colossus, Copernicus, Shakespeare; TR:3

    520 200g from India; Bangalore is out of spice-demand!
    540 Stock exchange; 50g from Carths
    600 Gravity->Navigation; Coal(u)>Malaca 130
    (Persians IW)
    640 Hides(d)->Bangalore 216
    660 Navigation->Physics(780); Rom is size 21; Disband warrior so we can use all our 25 shields
    680 Spices(d)>Ellipi 114
    720 Phys->Invention(806);
    (Aztecs BB)
    780 Inv.->Demo(858); India 50g, Aztecs 50g+Bridge-Build.; Embassy with Persia
    860 Demo(revolt.+est.)->Steam(884);
    (India Feudalism)
    880 Newton College; 100g from India; 384 beakers done; Spices(u)>Berlin 56g (another drop-out-of-demand)
    900 Steam->Railroad(910);
    920 Celebrate again, 150g from Babylon
    940 Harbor built; Get IW from Persia;
    960 Ouch, missed railroad, key civ-shift, we are strong now instead of moderate
    980 Rairoad->Gunpowder; Celebrations stop at size 24
    1000 City walls;

    stats at 1000 AD:
    city size 24; techs: 36; Gold: 1516; units: 1 settler, 3 vans; 2 army; Gov: Dem; city: Market, library, city walls, aquaeduct, Bank, university, stock exchange, sewer, harbor; Colossus, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Newton; TR:3
     
  16. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2011
    Messages:
    447
    Location:
    London
    Hello, I got here eventually (and yes I know that it is likely several have already moved on, to the, er, February game as it is now the 20th of that month.)

    My thanks to Jokemaster and lasingularidad for their entertaining posts of a month ago, sorry I was too far behind to read them at the time. I see what was going on about the hut giving AT before first city now. Did anyone come to a conclusion as to when it can happen?

    As for my game - I think it is one to be brief about. I was a bit tired after GotM173, and obviously behind the group, so I thought I would play to landing with a peaceful approach and just a few cities. I didn't fancy OCC with no offshore trade. I do not seem to be doing so well. For example I reached Demo the same year that the Major playing OCC did (AD860.)

    Not fighting is obviously not a strong approach for comparison game on a small map, but it is a good approach for popularity, despite being supreme. If only someone could make a patch so a Siri-like voice from the heralds would speak how enthusiastic they are, then you could feel really good.

    There was a bit of trickiness early on when in 3250 a Carthag archer says going to rid the world of us, and moves next to our size-1 settler. But we got through that with the aid of a hut pop choice.

    I founded what will be the SSC on the 4-special to the west in 2500BC.

    I became a Monarchy in 1650BC.

    1000BC Status
    Everyone likes us, although we are Supreme.
    pop.: 12(.19m); Cities: 6; techs: 10; gold: 75; cost: 0; Gov.: Mon;
    wonders: none;
    TR: trade just discovered.
    units: 4 settler, 2 warrior, 4 phalanx, 1 chariot, 1 van.
    Goals: Growth. Secure some wonders.

    1AD Status
    Everyone likes us, although we are Supreme.
    pop.: 30(.8m); Cities: 8; techs: 19; gold: 753; cost: 5; Gov.: Mon;
    wonders: HG, Colossus;
    TR: 0D/5F.
    units: 6 settler, 3 warrior, 6 phalanx, 3 ele, 1 chariot, 2 dips, 10 vans.
    Goals: Get SSC really going with Copernicus and Uni.

    Code:
    Romans: That's us.   Supreme.         8 cities     19 techs          -> Uni 
    Babylonians  - enthusiastic, peace.   2 cities 
    Germans - enthusiastic, peace.        2 cities
    Aztecs - enthusiastic, peace.         3 cities     17 techs          -> Curr
    Persians - enthusiastic, peace.       2 cities
    Carthaginians - receptive, peace.     3 cities     16 techs          -> Lit
    Indians - enthusiastic, peace.        2 cities     17 techs          -> Med
     
  17. Inkerman

    Inkerman Engineer Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
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    The moderate pace continues.

    20- Spend 312g on a Uni for Cumae.
    60- Cumae builds Copernicus Observatory.
    100-
    75g from Carthags.
    125g from Indians.
    200g from Aztecs.
    75g from Germans.

    120-
    Van, Rome - Persepolis (Persian), Copper, for 60g.
    Van, Cumae - Babylon (Babyl), Hides, for 108g.
    200-
    25g from Babyls.
    Persians ignore us.
    100g from Germans.
    150g from Carthags.
    150g from Indians.

    220- disc Rep-> Wheel. Become Republic.
    240- Cumae builds Michaelangelo Chapel. Some celebrations.
    280- Cumae Aqueduct and size=9. Rome, Veii = size 8.
    300-
    Van, Cumae - Antium, Hides, for 88g.

    320- disc Wheel -> Eng.
    Give Con to Aztecs. Wish Indians would get on and finish Medicine, they have been on it some time.
    Van, Cumae - Bombay(Indian), Dye, for 136g.
    340- Cumae = size 12.
    360- Cumae builds LH.
    380- disc Eng -> ToG.

    480- disc ToG -> Bank (as Sea is being done by Persians.)
    Van, Veii- Tlatelolco(Aztec), Silk, for 162g.
    Aztecs nearly done Pyramids.
    500- Found Hispalis on South Island.

    500AD Stats.
    Everyone likes us, except the Carthags who are neutral.
    pop: 74 - 3.88m; Cities: 9; techs: 25; gold: 454; cost: 24; Gov.: Rep;
    wonders: HG, Colossus, LH, Mike's, Copernicus;
    TR: Quite a bit.
    units: 6 settler, 7 phalanx, 3 ele, 1 chariot, 2 crusader, 1 trireme, 1 dip, 9 vans.
    SSC doing well, and will add Newton soon.
    Goals: Grow SSC, and push through techs. Trade with offshore city.

    Code:
    Romans: That's us.   Supreme.               9 cities    25 techs     -> Bank.
    Babylonians  - enthusiastic, peace, 114g.   1 city      15 techs     -> HBR.
    Germans - enthusiastic, peace.              2 cities
    Aztecs - enthusiastic, peace, 104g.         3 cities    25 techs     -> Bank.
    Persians - enthusiastic, peace, 310g.       3 cities    20 techs     -> Sea.
    Carthaginians - neutral, peace, 151g.       3 cities    21 techs     -> Feu.
    Indians - enthusiastic, peace, 181g.        3 cities    20 techs     -> Med.
    
    Teotihuacan builds Pyramids.
     
  18. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    My game is finished. Nothing too spectacular about it, maybe except for the fact that I was able to keep all alliances until the very end.

    As far as it has been recorded, these advanced tribes occured in games with barbs in villages only. Not sure if this is a coincidence or a pattern.

    It is still possible to deliver offshore, you just need some lucky timing and bribe an AI-boat (that can carry units). I managed to get two offshore deliveries, however it is probably not worth to bribe a fregate for 955, and then deliver two vans for 174 and 445... ;)
     
  19. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    500 AD (CONTINUED): Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 328g. Beaker box full. I don’t need to build Magellan’s. CAESAREA BUILT ON SOUTHERN LANDMASS.

    520 AD: Chemistry > Economy. Syracuse Harbour. One more turn of celebrations and I stop them. I probably should have researched Feudalism now to get JSB up in time for celebration end. Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 340g.

    540 AD: Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 360g. T1L2S7, canceling celebrations at size 7-8. Shakes started in Rome to keep celebrations going. 6 vans later, Shakes ready next turn. Indians are still in Monarchy, the heck? Should send a van in Babylon to make them celebrate. Maybe they’ll get the hint. You know what, Byzance? I choose you. You supply Gems, right?

    560 AD: Economy > Feudalism. Rome Shakes. Rome Hides (d) to Delhi: 376g. Still supplying Hides at size 18!!! I can maintain one-tech-per-turn at this rate.

    580 AD: Feudalism > Theology. Byzance Gems (d) to Babylone: 168g. I have a TON of vans being built ready to get JSB and Leo’s built ASAP. I also have this problem of constantly having a ton of cash in hand and never being able to spend it. (Post-game edit: oh you innocent child…) Tenochitlan Silk (d) to Rome: 210g, unblocks Gold.

    600 AD: Theology > Invention. Véies dye (d) to Rome: 108g. OW. It replaced one of the good trade routes. Guess that’s the inefficiency of using domestic trading to unblock stuff. Babylone is celebrating, but no growth… don’t tell me I have to irrigate their lands? Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 372g.

    620 AD: Jérusalem settlers. Invention > Navigation. Going to go for Magnetism first before researching Demo to avoid unnecessary unhappiness. Still want to run 0% LUX. Antium JS BACH. Off path tech, yes, but I need it to be able to run 0% LUX and maintain order (otherwise I have one cyan hat and 2 red hats… and I’m still screwed when HG expires) Hispalis gold (d) to Delhi: 93g. Not super good. Teotihuacan gold (d) to Delhi: 81g. Lutèce gold (d) to Delhi: 111g. Tlateloco gold (d) to Delhi: 90g. At least Delhi demand is 100% static. 3 vans in Antium for Leo’s. That wonder is 100% essential in any trade-based game as it removes the Railroad penalty when you learn The Corporation. T2L0S8.

    640 AD: Navigation > Physics. Cumes gold (d) to Delhi: 75g. Rome gold (d) to Delhi: 279g. Better. Utique gold (d) to Delhi: 63g. Hispalis gems (d) to Antium: 54g. Rome 504 beakers, 773 beakers total.

    660 AD: Physics > Magnetism. Tarente built on northern landmass. 2 vans in Antium: Leo’s rushed for 150g. That was the last 100% needed wonder. Ok, the solo cycle gotta have updated in Rome by now… what the heck?!? Hides still available for a size 20 city!! Viroconium salt (d) to Carthage: 48g. Berlin wool to Rome (nd) 48g, unblocks Gold.

    680 AD: ANTIUM LEO’S. Getting 75g per turn with max science. T4L0S6.

    700 AD: Magnetism > Steam Engine. Dangit, 700 AD was an oedo turn… Pompéi gold (d) to Delhi: 60g. Teotihuacan hides (d) to Delhi: 48g. Byzance gold (d, with critical path) to Delhi: 90g. Pise dye (d) to Nineve: 52g. I’m basically trading my excess gold for beakers. Babylone grew, but needs more routes to keep the peace.

    720 AD: DELHI NO LONGER DEMANDING HIDES. Persépolis still does. Nope, scrap that, I’m blind. It’s almost midnight. Rome gold (d) to Delhi: 279g. Beaker box full. Did I seriously just build a coal van in Rome…

    740 AD: Indian gov’t overthrown. FINALLY. Steam Engine > Gunpowder. Hut in Southern lands: 25g. T4L0S6.

    760 AD: Gunpowder > Democracy. Brundisium silk (d) to Rome: 117g. Rome coal (nd) to Babylon: 102g. Viroconium beads (nd) to Bombay: 21g. Utique coal (nd) to Suse: 16g. 2 Settlers sent south using ship chain. Tech bomb the Indians to lower costs (Babs get everything due to GL) the beakers were less than expected… I have absolutely no clue whether I’ll have enough to trigger Demo. Lots of libraries rushed. Bombay salt (nd) to Rome: it shouldn’t replace, right? Didn’t for Brundisium… 32g. NicomédieNord built. Here we goo…
    Interturn: Persian gov’t replaced.

    780 AD: Democracy (yes!) > Explosives. Democracy established. SéleucideSud established. T1L1S8, now I can add extra scientists to Rome with Demo established. Ur gold (d) to Delhi: 138g. Antium hides (d) to Delhi: 74g. The map showed up as small-sized in the MapEditor, but as normal in-game… the map overview on the top-right corner is not zoomed in like it would be in small worlds.

    800 AD: Explosives > Atomic Theory (no other good choices) Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 206g. Oof, it’s not much… Pise spice (d) to Brundisium: 69g. ArtaxtaSud and AurelanoriumSud built. That’s all the colonies on the south end.

    820 AD: Atomic Theory > Metallurgy. Hut: Crusader, disbanded in newly founded HippoRegiusNord (no space! No, seriously, that was all the space that was available for city naming.) All colonies are now built. Seems like the kind of map where replaying will yield much better results. Tech costs are 1300something. Ravenne first trade route to the colony of SéleucideSud: Beads, demanded, 80g. Not super good, but size 1 and size 5, what do you expect… Ravenne silk (d) to Tenochitlan: 78g.

    840 AD: Nothing of note.
    Interturn: Carths develop Poly.

    860 AD: Metallurgy > Only 2 choices are Chivalry and Railroad… Railroad it is. I have absolutely no vans ready for Darwin’s. NOTE TO SELF: Build Darwin’s in a new city that processes first. Make sure to queue up an advance with van science first. ROME NO LONGER SUPPLIES HIDES. Pompéi hides (d) to Persépolis: 76g. Palmyre is the chosen site. Pise coal (nd) to Rome: 24g. Naples spice (d) to Berlin: 60g. Oh darn, that was supposed to go to a colony… oh well. T1L2S7 since HG will expire to keep celebrations going in Rome. Still 2 turns to go.

    880 AD: Railroad > Industrialization. Might as well gun for Corporation now. Darwin’s started in Palmyre.
    Interturn: Persians develop Banking.

    900 AD: Industrialization > Electricity (The Corporation not available) POLLUTION NEAR ROME. T1L0S9. Rome maxed out on citizens for now. 200s left in Palmyre for Darwin’s.

    920 AD: Electricity > The Corporation.
    Interturn: Persian gov’t overthrown.

    940 AD: Leonardo’s upgrades all vans into freight as The Corporation > Steel. Still delaying deliveries as I want to cap next turn when I’ll finish building Darwin’s in 2 turns.

    960 AD: Rome hides (d) to Delhi: 216g. Box full. 4 vans in Palmyre: Darwin’s next turn. Bit of a late Darwin’s but whatever. Rome cloth (d) to Palmyre: 76g to make sure.

    980 AD: Steel > Refining. Palmyre Darwin’s, Refining > Refrigeration > Combustion. The colonies seem to have a heavy demand for beads. Antium spice (d) to Carthage: 66g. Berlin coal (d) to Brundisium: 60g. Lutèce silver (d) to Rome: 90g. No unblock. Oh darn, forgot the Rome vans must be delivered first. Dummy. Need to remember to keep 400g in hand to rush Superhighways when Automobile is discovered, and some more to build a Mass Transit in Rome afterwards. RR to Babylone station city is done, RR to Delhi next turn. I think I’m set for 1-turn-advances for the rest of the game. Will probably have to build a slow spaceship tho, which will give me more time to do score-boosting things. OK, so this means that the colonies need to be checked first for any potential unblocks. Véies wine (d) to Nineve: 82g. Techbomb the Indians to guarantee a 2-tech turn. The box was always hovering close to 85% done so I couldn’t deliver all my vans. I gave them everything except Steel.

    1000 AD: Combustion > Automobile > Mass Production. SuperHighways rushed in Rome. Science box now to 0%. All is well in the world.

    STATUS AT 1000 AD: (Beginning of 151th turn)
    Population: 10.260.000 Cities: 32 Government: Democracy Total advances: 55 (researching Mass Production)
    Gold: 126 T1L0S9 Income/Cost per turn: 102 income, 55 cost. Production: 232MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco’s, Cope’s, HG, Isaac Newton’s in SSC Rome. Mikes, JSB, Leo’s in Antium. Pyramids conquered from the Aztecs. MPE also in Rome. Darwin’s in Palmyre. No extra wonders being built although I have plans for SETI as most helpers have libraries already.
    Units: 17 Engineers, 26 Musketeers, 6 Transports, 16 Freight.
    Peace with everyone, allied with Indians. Indians down to 1 city, Babs under control. Yellow and dark blue civ dead.

    NOTES: Colonies got built, but not much ROI from them so far since they had to grow. Now, most of them are size 3, but I can’t afford to WLTPD just for them. They’ll rely on Pyramids for growth, and absolutely no engies will be built. Maybe I ship some of them over there if I need to for roads and whatnot. But it should not be needed.

    Still haven’t recovered really from the drop in trade bonuses caused by Invention/Navigation and the colonies haven’t picked up the slack yet. Fortunately, my other cities are generating 40+ beakers apiece with libraries and trade routes, so I can still maintain 1techperturn at the time being. I think I can get a sub1400 AD landing easily if it’s a 470turn game. (Post-game edit: u wot mate?) As long as I don’t mess up. But it’s probably not very good still, maybe I could have gone faster in the later BC years. The kind of map where replaying it will allow you to shave off lots of time off your landing date.
    (Pre-post edit: Was about 8ish turns ahead of pace on my next attempt. Ran out of spare time, college OP.)
     
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    As long as you have any domestic routes (that is not all the routes in your city are foreign) you can micro manage the situation. For example, let say in this case Rome had 2 foreign routes and 1 domestic route. You are about to deliver from Veii and are concerned that it may replace a more valuable foreign route of Rome. Let say Rome's domestic route is with city x. Go to x and turn all citizens into specialists. This will drop the value of the route in Rome. Now make the delivery. The route that gets replaced in Rome is the one to x rather than either of the two foreign routes. Now go to x and put the citizens back to work. You can also do the same for Veii in this case, making sure the new route to Rome replaces an existing domestic route rather than a foreign route.

    You can also use the same technique to make sure you get a foreign route when you have 3 routes already and some of them domestic routes to high arrow cities.
     

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