1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

GOTM 179 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Jokemaster, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    Before starting anything, let me state one single thing. I will not be submitting my GOTM 179 attempt to CFC this time around. GOTM179 was a scenario, and thus normal scenario rules were applied: you could play around a few turns aimlessly if you weren't familiar with the scenario, even as different nations. I was familiar with the scenario and remembered some specific cities having Coastal Fortresses, but was still a little rusty. I also wasn't careful enough with the definition of "aimlessly", as the playing-around ended up giving me defense-related information that had an impact on my decision-making in two very specific regions.
    Spoiler :
    Vichy
    and
    Spoiler :
    Egypt
    I thus don't feel comfortable submitting that one.

    I will include my log for comparison's sake, but won't submit.

    Spoilers below. (Added another round of spoiler buttons for safety's sake. Still, open at your own risk!)
    Spoiler :
    Here are the different logs and different timelines.

    Pre-game thoughts. Sometimes my analysis is correct, some times it's hilariously out-of-line. Fair warning: some of the stuff that's written here is based on my own memories, which may be different from yours. Again, do not recommend if you haven't played along a fair bit yet.
    Spoiler :

    GOTM179.
    World War 2, Germans, playing as Deity level. 32 cities for marginal, 54 for decisive. Dips/trade NOT disabled. We start with 22 cities, so marginal victory is going to be quick. Tech costs are HUGE. Already researching Rocketry: Espionage will be annoyingly late.

    ANALYSIS TIME. We start with 5 engineers. 19 tanks. 8 bombers. More submarines than I have an use for. Need mostly engies and tanks. 11 cities have Barracks. Some cities w/o Barracks can produce Engineers. Still, not a whole lot of production bases on the mainland. Quite a few cities are offshore and/or don’t have Barracks. That shouldn’t be too hard to fix up once they’re properly railed up, even if their underdevelopment is properly jarring. Need to prioritize spending properly: maybe some bribes are going to be delayed. However, Belgrade still needs to be bribed IMMEDIATELY, since the road to the Turks cannot wait.

    Also, we’re in Republic. Police Stations fix Republic unhappiness. Don’t switch to Demo. Rush Police stations when number of units outside from a conquered city is greater than two.
    As a rule of thumb, cities with Barracks are going to rush something every 2 turns. Cities w/o Barracks and not much production will build engies.


    INVASION STRATEGIES:
    FRANCE/SPAIN: Need 2 engies to rail to Paris, and 2 to road to Stratsbourg via the Rhine. Stratsbourg has walls, so will need to use bombers (IIRC the tanks from the Maginot Line are supported by SB). Reminder that their Riflemen’s defence will be 12 instead of 14 on the first turn. (14 instead of 16 if vet.) Leftover troops from Paris can kill Cherbourg.
    One problematic city could be Marseilles. The SW front is likely to be undermanned for a while, so Marseilles’ capture will be delayed. They have walls and river. The reason because this city is important is because it gives me a waterway towards Barcelona, Valencia and Spain’s cities. They will be collected using leftover troops from the French campaign. Seville is a huge objective, since it houses Mag’s. Afterwards, swoop through North Africa and Egypt afterwards, if you still have time. Libyan forces need to stay put as an assault now isn’t going to help at all.

    GREAT BRITAIN/THE AMERICAS: After Amsterdam’s capture, I will need to make a decision. Do I rush a boat and immediately go for London on turn 2 (I remember they having lots of units guarding the London shoreline) or do I go for the more-easily-conquerable Southampton but let England arm up? All the English cities have walls. (Get a dip to check on the status of London’s defenses whilst the troops are getting ready?) An assault would most likely require lots of rushed barracks and replacement tanks. Either way, I’ll build a road for Belfast and get a transport for Scapa Flow. City’s on grassland, so it’s conquerable despite its Coastal fortress.

    Afterwards, it’s a 3-turn ride (5 turns if Magellan’s is not conquered yet) for Washington and NY. An assault is probably going to be extra difficult since there is a river and most likely, Vet Alpine Troops. How many, I don’t have a clue. Actually, it’s probably going to fail since England will have quite the casualties and the AI can’t make an invasion from that far out (so they’ll stockpile random units near home) I’d need two full boats of diplomats to make it work! Yikes. Either way, if I do go for SB then I’m probably not attacking London anytime soon.

    RUSSIA: Need a railroad from Prague to Krakow (2 engineer-turns) followed from Krakow to Warsaw. That way, I can transfer troops immediately once war breaks out (it will at some point). Short roads to connect to Kiev, Minsk and Riga. Can’t really afford to build a whole RR network in Russia since I won’t have the time before the scenario ends. Don’t know how many reserve troops will be waiting for the go-signal, but once it happens, I expect those cities to fall rapidly bc no walls and no vet status (IIRC there were few vets when I played before as Russians because of the purges of the 1930’s).

    Will most likely focus my efforts on the Kiev-Kharkov quadrant at first. I wonder how many units they will have stockpiled up, or if they will have walls built before war breaks out. Moscow and Leningrad are walled, but no rivers. Probably vets tho. Hardest city to take will be Stalingrad. Of course. Only city on a river that has walls. Lack of roads will be ANNOYING.. could very well lose engies to their airforce. Need planes to shoot down the bombers. Also need some local station cities with barracks that will rush the tanks needed to keep up the offensive, in some conquered cities. Since shipping tanks from the mainland will take too long. I will need a TON of battle engies to build the necessary roads and fortresses. Kharkov, Moscow and Kubiyshev will be my “Rush tanks here” cities, and Voronezh/Stalingrad will most likely produce bombers. Subject to change, of course.

    SCANDINAVIA: Engineer, then Diplomat in Oslo to bribe capital-less Stockholm. Leningrad will probably be left to the rearguard (fresh troops from the mainland perhaps?) They will head to Murmansk afterwards. A mass attack should be enough for Lenin.

    BALKANS/TURKEY: At first, bribe Belgrade. Afterwards, wait a bit to supply efforts in GBR and Russia. Build some engies in the Balkanic cities and make a roadlink from Bucharest to Istanbul. Rail from Vienna to Budapest is also needed. Fortress outside Istanbul, then when the time is right, strike. Turkish cities through Antioch down to the French Lebanon and to Jerusalem. Antioch will probably have to be taken using Bombers from Istanbul since the terrain is most uninviting. An airport there will be good, as they can also be used for Odessa/Sebastopol/Athens. Then can then fly over to bomb Iraq. Hopefully I will have researched Combined Arms by then, will make my task easier. Finally, bribe Tehran and link up in Egypt.


    CITY ANALYSIS: A few cities have Granaries that could be sold. Upkeep costs are very high, 50% taxes only gives 50gpt, but it doesn’t look at first glance that there is THAT much in the way of useless insfrastructure. Edinburgh is a huge objective, since Adam Smith’s is going to be of a massive help. Could save 108 gpt. We have 2 Cathedrals, one in Munich and one in Vienna, that can be sold since we have Mikes in Rome.

    QUESTIONABLE INFRASTRUCTURE: (Notes: Sell Police Stations once Suffrage is conquered and Granaries once Pyramids is conquered. Like that’s ever gonna happen…)

    Coastal Fortress in Bergen. Maybe it’s not needed, maybe it is. Scapa Flow is nearby, but I don’t remember if an attack on Bergen is scripted or not (I usually go for it when playing as Allies, works out). We’ll play it safe.
    Granaries in Berlin. More than 20 turns until the city grows. Not worth it IMO.
    Bucharest: Granaries unjustified. City has a random Coastal Fortress even if it’s not near land.
    Budapest: Granaries justified. Police Station not justified, since the city will be building engies.
    Cologne: Granaries unjustified.
    Dresden: Granaries justified.
    Frankfurt: Granaries unjustified.
    Helinski: Nothing to say.
    Kiel: Granaries unjustified.
    Konigsberg: Superhighways unjustified. Coastal fortress justified until Riga is taken out.
    Krakow: Bank, University unjustified.
    Milan: Granaries unjustified.
    Munich: Granaries, Cathedrals, Aqueduct, Sewer System useless.
    Oslo: Nothing to report.
    Prague: Granaries,. City needs a Power Plant at some point.
    Rome: Granaries unjustified. City needs a PowerPlant to stay over 10shields. Miniaturization is not a priority tech.
    Taranto: Bank, granaries unjustified.
    Tobruk: Police station unjustified. Build city walls instead.
    Tripoli: Police station unjustified. Not enough action there. Granaries justified.
    Venice: Granaries, university unjustified.
    Vienna: Cathedral useless. Granaries justified.
    Warsaw: University unjustified.


    OK. Go-time!
    Turns 1-5
    Spoiler :
    June 1940 (Turn 1) Rail to Paris. Kill all units in Paris, losing an alpine troop. Paris stormed for 2000g+13citizens+6improvements+Eiffel Tower. Only 2 Guerilla units, oddly enough. No ground was covered whatsoever. Road to Stratsbourg. Stratsbourg stormed for 0g+9citizens+4improvements after killing 2 defenders. Kill defender in Amsterdam: city stormed for 1500g+4improvements+7 citizens. Kill 2 defenders in Cherbourg: city stormed for 0gold+5citizens+5 improvements. Lose a non-vet Armor to a guerilla unit. Kill defending unit in Saint Nazaire: city stormed for 0gold+10citizens+3improvements. I have to deal with very little guerilla, this is highly weird and highly beneficial. Can take a lot more cities at first swoop than I thought I could. Kill 4 units in Vichy using Bombers (2 of them get vet. The AI usually uses them against Paris’ airforce, but Paris no walls so it’s kinda suboptimal use): city stormed for 0gold+5citizens+3improvements. Rush a temple > granary > dip in Vichy so I can steal Mass Production from Marseilles next turn. Taranto will do the same from Athens. Allies have Miniaturization, I want that. T5L1S4. Sell some unnecessary city infrastructure. Treasury goes from 4k to 4.3K (some spending on Temples to pacify France) down to 4075. CostPerTurn goes from 552 to 509. Still more sales to be made next turn. I think I’ll use the outside-of-London units to vet my bombers safely by creating a bomber stack with a Vet Battleship nearby. If only I had AEGIS cruisers available… but alas. No luck.
    INTERTURN: Allies develop Advanced Flight. Lose 2 Uboats to Allies. (Can RK one, but not the other)They lose some destroyers attacking Kiel/Cherbourg. Engineer disembarks near Kiel, ALL OF THEIR SCAPA FLOW NAVY IS NEAR BERGEN. No clue if they’re actually going to attack or not.

    August 1940 (Turn 2): Unable to RK either of the destroyers, drat. Kill invading force near Kiel, Bomber and Armour vet. Rush Alpine in Bergen. Steal Mass Production from Marseille and… Democracy from Athens. Darnit. Kill 2 garrisonned Riflemen near London: both bombers vet. Oh dear, I hope there’s no Battleship in Southampton… otherwise that’s 400 shields lost. Kill defender in Bordeaux, city stormed for 9+80g+6citizens+5 improvements. Belgrade bribed for 736g – that’s more than I was hoping for – but I take it anyways. Get 7+80g back, 1 improvement and 7 citizens. Start selling again: Go from 2.7k to 3.1 k, and from 523 costperturn to 516 Cost per turn. Having second thoughts on selling some of my universities. I had originally written down CPT, but then I remembered that yeah… maaaaaybe not a very good idea to use that specific phrasing. Especially when playing as an Aryan nation! All in all, I’ll invade GBR in 2 turns, once the 2nd wave of reinforcements arrives. Need to rush from scratch another boat from Amsterdam tho.
    Interturn: Kiel and Rome repel destroyer attacks. Fleet near Bergen seems uninterested. Russians tell us to leave Leningrad. No losses.

    October 1940 (Turn 3): Kill 3 units in Marseille: city stormed for 30+60g+11citizens+2 improvements. That’s a LOT of guerilla spawning tho. Kill English Destroyer in the Atlantic. Taranto naval units are headed to Egypt, I’ll try an attack there. I vividly remember Athens having Coastal Fortress, so that city’s a no-go. Maybe Alexandria doesn’t have one? Steal Economy from London, but forget that I only have 1 1/3 movepoints available. RIP my other diplomat. Sink a 9-stack transport from the Americas. Other one unaccounted for.
    Interturn: Lose some Uboats in the Atlantic, the English make an amphibious assault in Cherbourg. 5 units dead! They also have a tank near St. Nazaire. I’ll have to switch EXES, I need to see what’s going on (Getting some CIV2EXE IS NOT RESPONDING issues.) Going from AI-patched to non-AI-patched.

    December 1940 (Turn 4) Kill U-boat and RK Battleship in Northern Sea, sink transport in English Channel (2 units killed) RK cruiser and destroyer in the Atlantic. Kill tank near St. Nazaire. Dip in London: London has 5 defenders. I have 13 tanks and enough bombers to conquer in 1 turn, I think. Here we go… 5 bombers, 5 kills. Here’s to the most anticlimactic invasion of all time! No RAF stationed where it was important. Dispatch remaining artillery, and LONDON CONQUERED FOR 242GOLD+21CITIZENS+LOTS OF IMPROVEMENTS (jk only five)+WONDERS THAT I DON’T REALLY CARE FOR A WHOLE LOT. Just remembered Konigsberg has Cope’s but the city is so underdeveloped/small I don’t really see a difference. Steal Miniaturization from Manchester, no other technology can be stolen. Manchester defended by only two units. Kill last defender of Stockholm: city conquered for 18g+5citizens+3 improvements. Down to 980 gold, need to be more frugal and/or sell some of the universities that I had earmarked earlier.
    Interturn: English disembark near Bergen, kill one of my Alpine Troops with a tank. English Battleship kills a cruiser. English battleship assaults Marseilles? Where did that guy come from? (Post-game edit: Gibraltar troops include a battleship) I’m going to lose so many units!

    February 1941 (Turn 5) Civil disorder in Marseilles, will delay the Spain invasion by 1 turn. Lose a tank-to-tank battle in Southampton: walled city is defended by 2 rifles, 1 RAF and 1 tank. I’ll need to wait a turn for my vet bombers to get movement points to attack, even if I could lose a couple. Lose a Vet Battleship attacking an English Fleet. They’re headed to… Oslo? City does have CF. Could attack Manchester, but I really don’t want to stretch myself too thin. Kill Riflemen in Alexandria using bomber: the other one kills my Battleship with a coastal fortress’ help, but I do conquer the city using the one paratrooper unit we started with. I will be getting the Pyramids out of it. Sell all granaries: back up to 1k gold. ALEXANDRIA STORMED FOR 68g+PYRAMIDS+8citizens+lots of improvements. Lose a half hp Vet Bomber trying to kill this dang battleship near Marseilles. Not gonna work… Rush a bank > Sumbarine. Try that.
    Interturn: Mass Invasion on Bergen even if my Vet Rifle does kill the tank. Lose Alpine and Tank to the rampaging Marseilles battleship. RUSSIANS INTERRUPT CEASE-FIRE. They kill an engi and a rifleman. Tank guarding Southampton suicides on London’s walls. Pfew.


    Turns 6-10
    Spoiler :
    April 1941 (Turn 6) Finally kill the Marseilles battleship at the cost of the newly built sub. Kill a 2stack near Alexandria at the cost of a cruiser. With tank gone, kill 3 defenders of Southampton: city conquered for 154+80g+15citizens+big infrastructure. 3 defenders of Manchester killed at the cost of an artillery: city stormed for 175g as the gov’t escapes to Newcastle. Lose an airplane killing a guerilla unit, lose another because I accidentaly ran out of gas. Kill 4 units in Newcastle with red-blinking Bombers: city stormed for 36g. MARGINAL VICTORY ACHIEVED. Now the real struggle starts. Maybe I can use an aircraft carrier to send Bombers to assault America? Since a land assault ain’t gonna work.
    Interturn: Battleship produced by New York!! Scary scary stuff.

    June 1941: Edinburgh is built on a hill! Wow. That’s news to me. I’ll need my full hp Bombers to deal with that one. Attack is delayed by 2 turns then. Kill 3 units in Belfast at the cost of a single tank: 48g plundered. Only 278g left… After selling some stuff (ex: walls, coastal fortresses of cities no longer under threat) back up to 1k. Investigate Minsk: more units inside, but walls nowhere in sight, and no Barracks either for vets.
    Interturn: Allies fly in troops in Suez. Allies sink a transport containing Bergen’s tank. Russians kill one of the units sieging Leningrad, but lose an artillery.

    August 1941 (Turn 8/45): Konigsberg wine (d) to Newcastle: 77g. Don't ask me why. Lose a cruiser attacking Fortressed Suez. Economy is doing better: 823in, 626 out. Decide to sneak attack the Spanish on next turn. Sink a 7-stack transport from the Americas: that’s the other one. A lot of the remaining objectives are on Russian lands. Russia doesn’t seem to be building walls still. But I’m still losing too much time in GBR. I’ll try to attack Kiev next turn.
    Interturn: Allies fly in troops in Suez. I’ll need more bombers. Lose a U-boat in the Atlantic, both a destroyer and a battleship. Lost of LOT of subs. Losing more units near Leningrad.

    October 1941 (Turn 9/45): Investigate Edinburgh: 3 Rifles defending. Kill 3 units defending using the almighty Vet Bomber. Cost per turn: 624. Edinburgh stormed for Adam Smith’s+83g. Cost per turn: down to 517. Lose 2 Tanks killing guerilla units. Kill defender in Scapa Flow, but the last guerilla can slip by and reinforce on his next turn. Sink Destroyer in the Atlantic ocean, trying to zero out this battleship. Kill defenders in Athens, Suez using bombers. Down to 67g. Sneak attack the Spanish: kill a tank blocking the way to Madrid. Kill 2 defenders of Madrid using bombers. Kill 2 defenders of Valencia using tank: Valencia stormed for 2ctizens+19gold. Do they even have Guerilla Warfare? No, and they don’t even have Communism either. LOL. Madrid stormed for 49+60g. Seville stormed for MAGELLAN’S+30g. Kill 4 defenders in Kiev: Kiev stormed for 74g. Going to attack Riga next turn.
    Interturn: Allies develop Combined Arms. Should I steal from Scapa? Delay the capture for 1 turn? Lose an engi to the Russians. Scapa Flow still undefended.

    December 1941 (Turn 10/45) Rocketry > Espionage. I’ll steal from Jerusalem. Kill units in Suez. Suez stormed for 68g. Kill wounded Battleship in the Atlantic Ocean using Submarine. They are so much more easy to manoeuver with Magellan’s effects. Kill unit in Cadiz: city stormed for 24g. Kill 4 units in Riga: city stormed for 61g. Kill 4 units in Minsk: Minsk stormed for 52g. Scapa Flow stormed for 13g. Down to 14g after spending… sell some City Walls that are no longer needed. Back to 734g. Was worried about a bribe-back in Kiev, need not to stack all my army in a single city.
    Interturn: Lose a tank in Minsk to a Russian counterattack. They have a stack inside city radius.


    Turns 11-18
    Spoiler :

    February 1942 (Turn 11/45) Steal Combined Arms from Jerusalem. Kill the stack near Minsk at the cost of an airplane. Kill 2 units in Dneprotrovsk: city stormed for 45g. Kill 4 units in Kharkov: city stormed for 74g. Smolensk stormed for 57g after killing 4 defenders. So easy, holy… Up to 42/54 objectives for decisive victory. Kill 2 units in Saragosa: 14g plundered after the city is stormed. Kill unit in Barcelona: city stormed for 19g. Lisbon stormed for 28g. T8L1S1. Need cash to fund America’s invasion.
    INterturn: Lose 3 !!! tanks in Smolensk. Big counteroffensive, but there are defences still. Going to have to dig down I guess, Russians will probably make their hold here since I’m getting closer to Moscow. Some tanks spotted on the American shores. Yeesh, that take’s gonna be hard.

    April 1942: Counter-attack kills the 3 tanks near Smolensk: walls bought. Athens still undefended: paradrop in and plunder 81g. 3 Guerilla spawn in: I’m kinda overstretched… might lose the city. Kill 2 defenders in Jerusalem, but will hold off for now. Vigo stormed for 51g. Kill 3 units in Kursk: city stormed as well. Now up to 44/54 objectives.
    Interturn: Now some artilleries are spotted near Washington. Lose a rifle in Riga to a Russian tank. No attack on Athens from the guerillas.

    June 1942 (Turn 13/45) Bombers take off from England, near Iceland. There are a few convenient airbases across the Atlantic that allow planes manufactured from the Americas to reach GBR without the use of a carrier… they will be used against them. Kill 3 units in Odessa: city stormed for 38g. Most of my tank losses are cleaning up guerilla spots… Empty Jerusalem stormed for 115+160g. Kill Gibraltar’s English garrison. Kill Rifle in Tangiers: Tangiers stormed for 39g. SPANISH CIVILIZATION DESTROYED BY AXIS. Kill Rifle in French Casablanca: city stormed for 59g. Kill 2 defenders in Algiers, but can’t take the city yet. Need to clean up backline first.
    Interturn: Repel French, Russian attacks. No casualties.

    August 1942 (Turn 14/45) Lots of riots; as I get more cities, the less effective the Mikes JSB combo gets. T7L2S1, no patience anymore. Study Moscow: 7 defenders. Noticeable lack of Barracks. The go-ahead is given: kill 7 defenders of Moscow, losing one tank. Blinking red healthbars: they must have shipped in vets from another city? Doesn’t make sense otherwise. Kill a unit in Rostov, but MOSCOW STORMED FOR 144+60G. Russian gov’t escapes to Leningrad. I’ll leave that city be for a while. Kill 2 units in Sebastopol. 47/54.
    Interturn: Guerilla attack on Athens repelled. No moves from the Russians.

    October 1942 (Turn 15/45) Some cities celebrate, ironically enough. Konigsberg of course, but also Berlin and Kiel. Investigate Leningrad: 4 defenders and an airplane. The city lacks a Coastal Fortress! I have a Battleship in Helinski, easy pickings. Kill 2 more units in Sevastopol: city stormed for 43g. 4 defenders of Rostov killed: city stormed for 32g. All defenders of Leningrad killed. Looks like I’m going to achieve decisive victory in 2 turns at most. Kill defenders of Beirut, Damascus, Tunis, Algiers using Bombers. Cities are all conquered for 71, 65, 35, 34. FRENCH CIVILIZATION DESTROYED BY AXIS. Maybe I get get Baghdad in 2 turns? That would help. LENINGRAD SEIZED FOR 19G, Russian civ flees to Stalingrad. Next up: Khuruchev-grad! Or whatever. I’m not checking Wikipedia for this stuff.
    Interturn: Big counterattack on Rostov. Lose 2 tanks, kill one. Tank and artillery outside the vicinity.

    December 1942 (Turn 16/45) Attack Murmansk: kill defender, storm city, kill guerilla, yada yada. Kill 4 units in Maikop. Kill defenders in Vologda. Kill defenders in Gorky. Cities stormed for 3, 13, 8g. DECISIVE VICTORY ACHIEVED. 54/54 cities required. Blue star is most objectives, eh? Time to kamikaze for a bit. 2 Bombers kill cities defending Baghdad before running out of fuel: they were supposed to attack next turn but I got ahead of schedule. Paratroopers dropped on Baghdad: 55/54. Gênes built. Crête built. Vérone built. SAVE.

    OVERTIME.
    February 1943 (Turn 17/16) Build a bomber stack near NY. Kill 3 defenders in NY. NY seized: 696g plundered. Lose 2 Tanks putting down the ensuing guerilla, only have 4 left.
    April 1943 (Turn 18/16) Washington defended by a single Rifleman. LUL.


    POST-GAME THOUGHTS:
    Spoiler :

    POST-GAME THOUGHTS: I wonder if any of you guys switched to Democracy when given the chance? How did you guys end up doing overall happiness-wise? I had some big struggles with happiness due to too many black hats (riot factor out of control) and corruption, but didn’t have to worry about troop unhappiness a whole lot either. I did raise my luxuries to 20% eventually, but didn’t really help in the conquered territories that much due to Republic corruption. Wonder how that would have affected your luxury rate and your overall decision-making. I stole the tech early (luck of the draw...) and decided to pass bc I was scared of having to build Police Stations to get semi-control instead of having total control: maybe that was a mistake. We’ll see.

    Also, I never needed to research Rocketry… coulda hiked taxes from the get-go and I would have been fine.


     
  2. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    Ontario
    GOTM 179

    June 1940 Turn 1

    After spending some time looking at the map and the situation, I devise a scheme to
    take Athens on the first turn, which will get me all the Allied gold. But first, I
    must take Paris and Amsterdam.

    Capture Paris, plunder 2000 gold.

    Capture Amsterdam, plunder 1500 gold.

    Use 2 engineers to make a square of railroad southeast of Rome, then build Athens
    Ferry on the Coal near Rome. Use 2 transports in Taranto to ship chain 1 engineer and
    7 Armor to Greece. Engineer builds road on plains northwest of Athens. Unload armor
    onto those plains and attack Athens, kill 2 riflemen.

    Capture Athens, plunder 1250 gold.

    Lose armor attacking partisan on hills outside Athens. The six tanks in Greece will
    be used in North Africa.

    Attack Marseille, lose two fighters, but kill 2 cruisers with bombers.

    Kill 2 allied tanks.

    Take St. Nazaire. Sign Cease-fire with French. Kill Neutral partisans.

    Plan is to Tech towards robotics for howitzers, using freight deliveries to England.
    Will build a large engineer corps to railroad my way through Russia.

    Taxes to 80%, go through cities selling buildings, rushing and arranging production.

    End turn with 6690 gold, 21 objectives.

    August 1940: Turn 2

    Allies develop advanced flight.

    Allied Fighter kills engineer in Greece. Submarine killed in Atlantic.

    Amsterdam Costal Fortress. Various freight built. Krakow, Warsaw, Milan Engineers.

    Kill last Greek Partisan. Lose 3 tanks attacking Belgrade, then bring in airpower
    instead. Capture Belgrade, 7g.

    Kill 3 unit transport stack outside Kiel, and engineer that landed. Lose fighter
    attacking rifleman outside London. Eliminate last allied forces on mainland.

    22 objectives held, 5791 gold.

    October 1940: Turn 3

    Lose tank near Alexandria.

    Build various freight, engineers, diplomats. Taranto Superhighways.

    Dresden hides ND to London for 154 gold. Frankfurt dye to London for 126 gold.
    Cologne oil (d) to Manchester for 455 gold.

    Steal Democracy from allies (London), but somehow I don't start a revolution (I
    thought I chose to do that). Steal Economics from Newcastle. Steal Mass Production
    from Alexandria.

    Capture Alexandria without loss.

    Sneak attack Spanish, Paratroopers and 2 bombers take city. Rush diplomat in Madrid
    (via police station).

    Bomber raid (2 bombers) on Stockholm doesn't clear city.

    Lose (already damaged) figher cleaning up partisans near belgrade.

    More city management. End turn with 6278 gold.

    December 1940: Turn 4

    Allies and French Cancel Alliance.

    Various freight built.
    Engineers built in Paris, Warsaw, Kiel.

    Alexandria courthouse, Tranto courthouse, Rome highways, Vienna highways, Berlin
    Airport.

    Sub kills 4 unit cruiser stack.

    Buy Seville for 399 gold, plunder 16g and get magellan's.

    Current price for Leningrad is 2870g.

    Clean up last partisan from Belgrade.

    Attack Istanbul with 2 bombers, capture with alpine troops. Plunder 27 gold.

    Discover Allied Battleship near Corsica, don't want to land bomber there, so build
    airbase outside Rome to save the bomber. Also land second bomber from Spanish
    campaign there also, and defend with riflemen.

    Send freight to Manchester in the hope of clearing Oil demand.

    Taranto copper (D) to Manchester for 364g. Oil cleared. Munich Hides (nd) to
    Manchester for 164g. Munich hides to London for 168 gold. Vienna salt (nd) to London
    for 170g, Rome hides to London for 234g, Dresden hides to london for 154g.

    Battleship kills rifleman in Suez and becomes vet.

    Realize that Tangiers is an objective. I already moved a rifleman out of seville
    towards Madrid, so can't build a bomber there (no building worth 240 shields, and an
    allied rifleman is just outside, so I can't disband the last rifleman).

    Use paratroopers from Madrid to take undefended Lisbon, 9g. Madrid undefended, move
    in fighter from Milan. Disband submarine in Lisbon, rush SH, switch to Bomber and
    disband 2nd submarine.

    Pay 294 for Russian Rifleman near Warsaw.

    Lose fighter attacking transport near Cherbourg, 2nd figher kills 2 stack.

    City Management. End turn with 5133 gold and 28 objectives.

    February 1941: Turn 5

    Lose 1 submarine, French break cease-fire, kill freight.

    Engineers built in Paris (disorder), Istanbul (disorder), Krakow, Konigsberg, Warsaw,
    Kiel, St. Nazaire, Venice,

    Various freight.

    Dresden Airport.

    WLTCD in Vienna.

    Bomb and paradrop Tangiers, 7g.

    Attack Marseilles, lose artillery, fighter. Cover nearby rough terrain and take
    Marseilles, 46g. Sign Peace Treaty with French.

    Steal Miniaturization from Suez. Lose tank attacking Suez. Take Suez, 78g.

    Bomb and capture Stockholm, 23g. Make Peace with Neutrals. Bribe partisan for 105g.

    With 32 objectives, I have achieved MARGINAL VICTORY. (February 1941)

    Frankfurt oil (d) to Manchester for 462g. Rome hides to Manchester for 216g. Rome
    Oil to Manchester (d) for 756g. Munich Silk to London for 432g. Vienna oil (d) to
    Manchester for 664g. Munich dye (nd) to Manchester for 136g.

    Pillage airbase outside Rome (though it doesn't really matter because Rome doesn't
    have a supermarket).

    Going rate for Minsk is 2321g.

    Science to 20% to make sure the discovery is made.

    At end of turn: 5040g, 32 objectives.

    Defense Minister:
    21 Engineers
    21 Alpine Troops
    32 Riflemen
    22 Armor
    4 Fighter
    10 Bomber
    11 Subs
    3 Battleship, 4 Cruisers
    5 Diplomats
    10 Freight

    April 1941: Turn 6

    English Battleship kills armor and 2 alpine troops in and next to Marseilles.
    Destroyer lost on high seas.

    Russians break Cease-fire (I was going to violate in June, so this means I don't have
    precharged engineers). Marine and 4 engineers killed.

    Rocketry, begin computers.

    Engineers built in Paris, Belgrade, Warsaw,

    Suez Courthouse, Tobruk Courthouse, Budapest highways, Prague highways, Alexandria
    Highways, Milan Barracks.

    WLTCD in Dresden, Rome.

    Take Riga, 58g. Russians offer cease-fire but I refuse.

    I make Neutrals withdraw their partisans.

    Take Ankara, 24g.

    Only allies and Russians still hold objectives.

    Price of Leningrad just under 3500, by taking a few cities this might be reduced a
    little more. I investigate city to find out what it has:

    2 Riflemen defending, and an engineer and destroyer adjacent. No costal fortress.
    Improvements definately don't warrant 3500 expenditure.

    Nearby battleship empties Leningrad of its riflemen. Take Leningrad, 88g.City walls
    preserved. Refuse cease-fire.

    French Withdraw troops as requested.

    Empty Jerusalem of its one defender, and take city, 76g. Three tanks dispached
    towards Iraq, 1 health, 1 damaged tank stay to mop up partisans.

    Investigate London:
    8 Rifles, 4 Fighters
    Airport, no highways.

    Investigate Manchester:
    5 Rifles
    No Airport, no highways

    Alexandria oil (d) to Manchester for 944g. Budapest hides (nd) to Manchester for 160g.
    Budapest oil (d) to Manchester for 560g. Prague hides (nd) to Manchester for 140g,
    but Oil still blocked.

    Choose to bomb Odessa instead of bribe. Good choice, only 1 defender but city would
    have cost ~1400 to bribe. Take Odessa with nearby AT, plunder 36g.

    Bomber and Fighter attack Sevastopol, empty city, take using troops and transport out
    of Istanbul, get 47g.

    Floating Russian fighter defends itself against rifleman, but tank takes it out.

    Take Minsk, 40g. Take Kiev, 62g.

    Taxes back to 80%.

    At this point I'm pretty sure that I should have gone for espionage instead of
    computers. I can get most objectives without fighting cities with walls, and spies
    would have let me plan better (and made certain bribes cheaper).

    When selling improvements, I notice that landlocked Bucharest has a costal fortress.

    End turn with 3651 gold, 39 objectives.

    I have about 25 armor, 50 rifles/alpines, 10 bombers

    Precharged several engineers.

    June 1941: Turn 7

    Lose Marseilles AT to battleship.

    Russian Tank kills 3 stack (I think 2 engineers, 1 tank, maybe 2 tanks, 1 engineer).

    Engineer buit in Paris, Krakow, Kiel, St. Nazaire.

    Kiev barracks, Minsk Barracks, Suez Highways, Tobruk Highways,
    Rome Airport, Vienna Airport.

    WLTCD in Prague, Taranto.

    Will stop mentioning incidental battle losses unless significant.

    Make peace with Turks.

    Use bombers en route to Moscow to suppress partisans near Smolensk. Take Smolensk,
    60g.

    Three bombers empty Moscow, capture city, Russian Government escapes to Stalingrad,
    which is good because it will be cheaper to bribe cities now. Plunder 126 gold.

    Pay 390 gold for Murmansk, get 8 back.

    Finally kill battleship that has been harassing Marseilles.

    Sub kills a 9 unit transport stack.

    Take Vologda, 5g.

    Budapest copper (d) to manchester for 272g. Tobruk oil (d) to Manchester for 770g.
    Dresden gold (nd) to Manchester for 166g. Rome copper (nd) to London (in effort to
    make Rome a permanent oil supplier) for 400g. Vienna Wine and Gold (nd) to London for
    314g each, in an effort to make Vienna an oil supplier again, which works. Munich
    Wine (nd) to Manchester for 164g. Prague hides to london (nd) for 144g.

    Peace with Spanish.

    Bribe Dnepropetrovsk for 903g, get 2 troops and engineer.

    Take Kharkov, 24g.

    Plan to achieve decisive victory in 2 turns using cruise missiles to attack London.
    When selling improvements, I may sell highways that won't be used for trade in the
    next couple turns. Might also change some other plans that I mentioned earlier if
    they won't come to fruition soon enough.

    End turn with 1844 gold, 45 objectives. 30 armor, 24 engineers.

    August 1941: Turn 8

    Allies develop computers.

    Disorder in Helsinki (expected), Bergen.

    Kharkov barracks, Moscow Barracks.

    Attack London with 6 cruise missiles, kill 6 riflemen. Expected fighters to scramble.
    Kill another London rifleman with battlehsip.

    Take Kursk, 23g.

    Land Tank in England with diplomat, kill artillery in field. Investigate London with
    Diplomat to see if it might be feasible to take London this turn. London contains 1
    more rifleman and 4 fighters. I currently have 46 objectives. Taking 4 russian
    cities looks doable this turn, so hopefully I will have enough left over to take out
    London.

    Leningrad and Helsinki Cruise Missiles attack Gorky instead of being directed to get
    into position to attack London. Sacrifice bomber outside Vologda attacking Gorky
    also. Take Gorky, 30g.

    Sacrifice 3 bombers near Moscow attacking Voronezh, take city with a partisan that was
    bribed last turn, get 21g.

    Make rail line to Rostov, attack city with Bomber, 2 artillery. Take Rostov, 24g.
    Attack and take Maikop, 26g. Cease-fire with Russians.

    Rome Oil to Manchester (d) for 804g. Oil demand blocked, because I didn't bother
    rearranging cities. Deliveries (nd) to London: Alexandria 484, Taranto 192, Tripoli
    160.

    Lose 3 tanks attaking rifleman in London. Landing force totalling 9 tanks takes
    London, Allied government escapes to Manchester. Plunder 364 gold.

    54 objectives obtained, DECISIVE VICTORY ACHIEVED. (August 1941)


    (Notes I kept for managing oil demand in Manchester

    Oil deliveries to Manchester: Cologne, Frankfurt, Rome, Vienna, Alexandria, Budapest,
    tobruk

    when delivering oil to Manchester, maximize trade in Munich, and Dresden, (once some
    freight are sent there)

    Get three trade routes between Rome and London, so hopefully the oil supply is
    permanent.)


    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
    %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

    Afterthoughts. That went quicker than expected, and had I realized that, I could probably have saved at least one more turn. If I had estimated freight payouts, I would have done less trading, but more deliberate trading. I only needed Rocketry, and it was a couple turns before I realized that it would be quicker to conquer with tanks instead of waiting for the more efficient howitzers.
     
  3. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    Wow, that was fast. Turns out large-scale trading works as Axis as well in this map. Was the oil-demand scheme planned beforehand? (Was it the deciding factor?)

    EDIT: WB Professor! Didn't realize you had taken a break.
     
  4. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    Ontario
    No, I didn't look at the map and decide to focus on oil trading, rather oil trading was the only delivery that would reliably return enough money to make it worthwhile, so I made sure to focus on it.

    Oil trading did speed up my game, since I was able to rush more stuff and not do research through taxes, but I think I could have done it smarter. I could have sent freight from Dresden to Manchester, which would probably have been sufficient to keep Manchester demanding oil after every delivery.

    I was on the way to having Rome and either Prague or Vienna supply oil every turn, due to having three trade routes with London, but I was able to end the game sooner.

    I should probably have started my invasion of Russia sooner, even if only with a few tanks to start. I think they did me a favour by sneak attacking me, because I got started 1 turn sooner than I had planned.
     
  5. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Russian: 31 cities, 63 techs, Communist, 26 objectives;
    Turk: 5 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 2 objectives;
    Axis: 22 cities, 66 techs, Republic, 16 objectives; Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Leo, Bach; War with Allies, Neutrals, and French
    Spanish: 9 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 3 objectives; Magellan;
    Neutral: 4 cities, 57 techs, Monarchy, 3 objectives; Allied with Allies, war with Axis
    Allies: 16 cities, 69 techs, Democracy, 16 objectives; Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Library, King Richard, Shakespeare, Newton, Adam Smith, Darwin, Liberty, Suffrage, Hoover dam; Allied with Neutrals and French, war with Axis
    French: 12 cities, 64 techs, Democracy, 4 objectives; Eiffel; Allied with Allies, war with Axis

    1940/6 Take stock of wonders, structures, techs, and units.
    Tech priorities are Espionage and Robotics.
    Need more libraries, universities, airports, and court houses. Sold unneeded structures.
    Vet cruiser kills single defender of Amsterdam and the city is captured for 1500g. Thanks to careful planning and unit placement only one partisan appears.
    Bombers kill 2 allied tanks.
    4 tanks kill the 4 riflemen and the 2 fighters in Paris and the city is captured for Eiffel and 2000g. 2 Partisans appear.
    2 vet tanks kill 2 defenders of Strasbourg; rifleman captures the city. 1 partisan appears.
    2 vet tanks kill 2 defenders of Cherbourg and capture the city. 1 partisan appears.
    Lost 2 tanks before killing the 4 defenders of Vichy and capturing the city. 1 partisan appears.
    Tank kills single defender of St. Nazaire and the city is captured by another tank. 1 partisan appears.
    Lost a tank attacking Belgrade.
    Lost 3 fighters attacking Marseilles.
    Lost a cruiser in attack on Athens protected by coastal fortress.
    All 7 partisans, 2 allied tanks, and 2 allied rifleman killed and one vet tank lost in the process.
    T2L4S4 to cause celebrations and increase science output. 20/70

    1940/8 Allies develop Advanced Flight. Allies lose 3 destroyers and a plane killing 3 bombers, a submarine, and an engineer. Allied transport deposits some units near Kiel.
    Battleship sinks allied transport and 2 units on board.
    Diplomat steals Mass Production from Bordeaux.
    Lost artillery and a vet tank in attack on Marseilles.
    Bomber kills English rifleman in key position near London creating a hole for landing. Transport goes to England with 3 diplomats, an alpine and a van. Diplomats steal democracy, Economics, and Mini from London, New Castle, Manchester. Oil from Karkow to Manchester for 262.
    Tank kills single defender of Bordeaux and the city is captured for 10g. 3 Partisans appear on the hills. Fighter lost attacking partisans. Tank kills a partisan.
    Vet tank barely manages to kill a defender of walled Belgrade. Belgrade bribed for 736g. Got 7g. 3 Partisans appear on hills and mountains.
    Last remaining allied rifleman in France killed. Allied destroyer sunk. 21/70

    1940/10 Belgrade partisans pillage 3 tiles. Bordeaux partisans pillage one tile. Allies kill a submarine and my alpine in England. They lose a fighter attacking my bomber.
    Lost 2 riflemen before killing Belgrade partisans. Bordeaux partisans killed.
    2 defenders of Athens killed and the city taken for 51g. 2 partisans appear and are killed by my assault force.
    Vet artillery lost in attack on Marseilles before its 3 defender are killed and the city taken for 31g. Holy cow! 7 French partisans appear. Lost a vet tank and a rifleman in the assault on the partisans killing 2 of them.
    French transport sunk. 3 Allied naval units, tank, engineer killed.
    BenGhazi founded. Infrastructure cost is very high. T3L4S3. 23/70

    1940/12 Allies kill a rifleman in fort. Allies attack Cherbourg and kill a tank while losing a tank and a Marine.
    One Marseilles partisan dies in attack on Marseilles; anotber pillages; other 3 stay put.
    Remaining 3 members of the Allied assault force near Cherbourg killed.
    Submarines kill 3 allied transports, one empty, one with 3 units on board, and one with 8 units on board and its escort destroyer in the Atlantic. Battleship sinks allied battleship near Kiel.
    Six tanks and a cruiser attack Alexandria. All are lost without being able to kill a single defender! This is an unbelievable loss!
    Battleship kills 2 defenders of Stockholm and the city is captured for 16g. 5 partisans appear. 3 are killed.
    2 more Marseilles partisans killed; one rifleman lost in the process. T4L3S3. 24/70

    Status at Dec 1940
    Axis objectives: 24/70

    Population: 19.4M; Cities: 34; Techs: 70; Government: Republic
    Gold: 99; Cost: 582; Trade routes: 25;
    Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Leo, Bach, Eiffel
    Units: 7 Engineers, 62 defenders, 2 Marines, 1 paratrooper, 16 tanks, 5 fighter planes, 6 bombers, 21 warships, 4 transports, 1 diplomats, 1 vans
    Goals: More trade routes (need both money and tech). Conquest of North Africa. Surveying London's defenses in preparation for attacking England.
    Russian: 31 cities, 63 techs, Communist, 26 objectives;
    Turk: 5 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 2 objectives;
    Spanish: 9 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 3 objectives; Magellan;
    Neutral: 1 cities, 57 techs, Monarchy, 0 objectives; war with me, allied with allies
    Allies: 15 cities, 70 techs, Democracy, 15 objectives; Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Library, King Richard, Shakespeare, Newton, Adam Smith, Darwin, Liberty, Suffrage, Hoover dam; Allied with Neutrals and French, war with me
    French: 5 cities, 64 techs, Democracy, 0 objectives; Allied with allies, war with me
     
  6. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    That is unfortunate. Why did you bother looking around? That rule was for people who have never played scenarios before and were dealing with a highly modified scenario (the first one we played on WW1). This one is very familiar Civ2 stuff.
    Good idea. Thanks.

    No, not cities, objectives. Not all cities are objectives and some with multiple wonders are worth several objectives.
    Why? Turks began with all of 2 objectives and most of the cities in middle east are neither objectives nor strategic here.
    I really wanted Magellan too but decided a war with the Spanish is not worth it.
    Wow. Very aggressive strategy. It did work for you though. I never even contemplated attacking Britain that early. After conquering France I concentrated on holding off allies incursions while conquering North Africa.
    Impressive.
    I deliberately decided not to. Even with massive number of police stations it would have been difficult to control the unrest and I decided it was not worth it.
    I increased the lux to %40 and many cities celebrated and added a citizen. Unfortunately most stopped when they got to an odd size. Then I reduced to 30% and a few still celebrated, chief among them Konigsberg, the home of Copernicus, which went from a mediocre city to the city with the highest science output.
    There was no choice for Rocketry. Right after that I went for Espionage and now I have spies, which are well worth it.

    Unlike you I took a very measured conservative approach. Concentrated on Allies, Neutrals, and French. Left others alone. Russians did attack me in April 1941 and killed several units (mostly engineers). I immediately dispatched tanks and took Minsk. When they next offered peace I gladly accepted. Maybe in the very long run my approach would bear better results. But you achieved decisive victory before I could achieve marginal one.
     
  7. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Huh? Why is that? I wondered why taking Amsterdam and Paris gave me all the gold of Neutrals and French instead of a fraction. What is the big deal about the first turn? Had one taken a Russian city on turn 1, all Russian gold will be obtained too?
    Wow! How did you achieve that? I attacked it a turn later than you and lost six tanks and a cruiser without being able to kill a single defender.
    WoW! Impressive result. Would not have thought it possible.
    Wow! Like Jokemaster, you achieved decisive victory long before I achieved marginal one.
    Given how quickly you managed I could not help but agree.
     
  8. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    The year was spent consolidating my position in Europe, building roads and infrastructure, preventing allied traffic on Atlantic, and getting a massive assault force headed for Egypt.

    1941/2 Stockholm partisans kill an alpine. Allies lose a cruiser attacking Marseilles. Next they bring a battleship and kill an alpine. Allied destroyer sinks a submarine. Allied fighter dies in attack on Cherbourg.
    4 Allied naval units sunk.
    Domestic Oil for 131.

    1941/4 Allies lose a destroyer attacking Kiel and a fighter attacking Cherbourg. Allies kill 2 submarines, a rifleman, and an alpine. Last of Marseilles partisan dies in attack on Marseilles. Last of Stockholm partisans pillages. Russians break cease fire and kill a rifleman and 2 engineers.
    3 allied naval units sunk and a vet bomber lost. Last Stockholm partisan killed.
    Domestic deliveries for 44, 66.

    1941/6 Allies develop Combined Arms. Russians lose a rifleman and a tank attacking me.
    2 allied destroyers killed.
    Russian tank near Minsk killed. Minsk attacked with vet tanks. 2 kill its 3 defenders and take the city for 55g. 3 partisans appear. Accepted Russian offer of cease fire and subsequent 100g for peace as I rather concentrate on allies.
    Single defender of Tunis killed and the city taken for 24g. 3 Partisans appear, 2 are killed.

    1941/8 Allies kill a submarine. Tunisian partisan pillages. Russian partisans drift away.
    2 defenders of Algiers killed and the city taken for 36g. 3 partisans appear and are killed at the cost of 2 tanks. Stole Combined arms from allied Southampton. Submarine sinks allied destroyer. Submarine killed in attack on allied battleship.
    Domestic deliveries for 72. Wine to English for 174. Brussels founded.

    1941/10 (First turn I am not attacked.)
    Allied rifleman near Alexandria killed.
    Domestic gold for 42.

    1941/12 Rocketry -> Espionage.
    Allied tank near Tobruk, allied submarine, 3 allied helicopters, allied transport with 4 units on board killed.
    Deliveries to English for 243, 214

    Status at Dec 1941
    Axis objectives: 25/70
    Population: 20.9M; Cities: 38; Techs: 72; Government: Republic
    Gold: 225; Cost: 593; Trade routes: 38;
    Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Leo, Bach, Eiffel
    Units: 12 Engineers, 57 defenders, 2 Marines, 1 paratrooper, 24 tanks, 5 fighter planes, 6 bombers, 17 warships, 4 transports, 0 diplomats, 6 vans
    Goals: More trade routes (need both money and tech). Conquest of North Africa. Surveying London's defenses in preparation for attacking England.
    Notes: 2 battleships, 4 bombers, and transport with 8 tanks are on their way to Alexandria.
    Russian: 30 cities, 63 techs, Communist, 25 objectives;
    Turk: 5 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 2 objectives;
    Spanish: 9 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 3 objectives; Magellan;
    Neutral: 1 cities, 57 techs, Monarchy, 0 objectives; war with me, allied with allies
    Allies: 15 cities, 71 techs, Democracy, 15 objectives; Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Library, King Richard, Shakespeare, Newton, Adam Smith, Darwin, Liberty, Suffrage, Hoover dam; Allied with Neutrals and French, war with me
    French: 3 cities, 64 techs, Democracy, 0 objectives; Allied with allies, war with me
     
  9. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    Ontario
    I think the game uses the population figure for the previous turn when determining how much is plundered from a city capture. Since it is the first turn of the scenario, the population for the previous turn was 0, thereby letting all the gold be plundered in a first turn capture. I may have the precise details wrong, but it is a first turn capture sort of thing, not a WWII special programming sort of thing. So, yes, if you had captured a Russian city, you would have gotten their gold too. I did spend some time checking if that would be possible.

    I brought in vet tanks from Europe. Upon checking my saved games, two of the tanks had tiny slivers of health left after the attack, and another was moderately damaged. That attack may have been a bit lucky, but I doubt there was anything particularly noteworthy about it, or I would have mentioned it.

    Checking cheat mode on the turn before I attacked, Alexandria had 2 riflemen (not fortified, but fortifying), 1 of which was a vet, and was building a bomber. The only tank in the region was outside the city. They may have airlifted in another defender.

    The Spanish and Turks have very limited military capabilities in this scenario. Attacking them for their objectives is worthwhile.
     
  10. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    I am not a very insightful person in the sense that I can miss blindingly obvious things. I'm technically booksmart, but I'm also a bit of an idiot. That bit shows.

    I remembered the WW1 scenario from GOTM167 having thin defences around the GBR area, and must have had the same train of thoughts. Since we had lots of Vet Armour to begin with, I thought I could land a swift 1-2 punch if I acted swiftly enough. Obviously, the Professor had other ideas. Better ideas.

    These two objectives are still relatively easy to reach from your mainland. However, I messed up and didn't earmark early on a half-dozen tank units for the region (since I sent everything in France/England), and waited instead for a road network and reinforcements. But the reinforcements were sent in Russia, and when the roadnetwork was done, the game was already over...

    I guess that's just a quirk with how scenarios work. My (untested) guess is that the calculations for how much gold is given on a city's capture are updated after every turn. But since we are attacking a civilization whose first turn has not been processed yet, the attacking civ simply gets all the gold instead of it being spread out. Same thing happened when conquering Verdun during GOTM167.
    EDIT: Prof. Garfield has it explained better than me.
     
  11. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Romania
    Prof. Garfield:
    Use 2 engineers to make a square of railroad southeast of Rome, then build Athens
    Ferry on the Coal near Rome. Use 2 transports in Taranto to ship chain 1 engineer and
    7 Armor to Greece. Engineer builds road on plains northwest of Athens. Unload armor
    onto those plains and attack Athens, kill 2 riflemen.

    Capture Athens, plunder 1250 gold.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I played this map more more times,last game for fun with Axis to make a city in (149,51) size 20,near Krasnoyarsk,transforming the mountains.
    1.Coal near Rome is WITHOUT railroad,engi don't have movement to make a road near Athens,I tried more times to take this city first turn for 1250 gold,paratroopers from Prague don't have movement first turn,can take Athens sacrificing the fighter from Rome(no fuel after attack) and a cruiser from Taranto(coastal fortress in Athens).This sure IF fighter kills a rifleman....
    2.Marseilles will be taken next turn,and the ships from city will disappear,bomber must kill the rifleman UNFORTIFIED first turn from fortress,and fortress occupied with one alpine,2 engi will make a road in river near Milan and need more troops to be over mountains and hills near Marseilles,partisans fortified in these places ..disaster.In my games with Axis Neutral partisans were bribed next turns,Belgrade taken with fighters from Rome and Milan +tank from Bucharest,signing cease fire with Neutrals.
     
  12. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2004
    Messages:
    2,038
    Location:
    Ontario
    There are 4 or 5 engineers at the start of the game. Two engineers make a railroad, and a third builds a city on the coal. Move a 4th engineer into the city on the coal along with the tanks. Send a transport from Taranto to that city and pick up troops and an engineer. That transport will end its turn directly north of Taranto, so you can use the second transport to pick up the units using the shipchain technique and unload them on the plains 2 squares northwest of Athens. The Wine is roaded, so building a road on the plains lets armour attack Athens from the plains square. You may have to choose the engineers for each task depending on where they start, to ensure that a full movement engineer is available to unload in Greece.

    I'm not sure what your question is regarding Marseilles. I didn't capture the city for a few turns, because I put the bombers in position to bomb Madrid instead.
     
  13. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Romania
    Yes,is a nice plan with city in coal,congratulations,I did not understand what is 'Athens Ferry',thinking is a slot of troops for Athens.
    About Marseilles,just I said,to destroy ships is movement lost for bombers.
    Maybe I will play the map for blue star,Athens can be used second turn to steal tech,more times can't steal techs or make a freight delivery in London,Manchester etc,troops on railroad and can't use bombers to clean,Allied fighters shotdown next turn.
    Good luck !
     
  14. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Romania
    June 1940 Turn 1

    Will take Athens next turn stealing a tech,bomber from Bucharest ready next turn will be help vs partisans,I hope the turkish tank from Istanbul will not 'disturb' me like in more other times.
    Bomber from Milan and fighters from Rome and Milan kill garrison in Belgrade,no veterans.
    Cruiser from Kiel kills garrison in Amsterdam.Have tanks from Berlin not veteran,will be used quickly against Paris.First kills rifleman on the road,veteran,but movement finished.2 engi makes railroad near Paris,will use artillery from Rome to clean partisans.Other tank kills 2 rifle from Paris,but not veteran.Next kills 2 rifle,in the second attack veteran.Tank from Cologne kills 2 fighters,fighters from Cologne over forests near Paris,Paris taken,colosseum,bank,2 partisans killed.St Nazaire taken,luck,coastal fortress,harbor,etc,one partisan killed.Amsterdam taken,again luck,city wall,university sold,3 partisans killed,one in tile of Cherbourg,will be bribed.Strasbourg taken,no luck now,factory lost,have city wall,bank,library,diplomat next turn,changing granary.
    Belgrade taken with tank from Bucharest,just city wall,3 partisans,gift railroad to Neutrals,sign cease fire.
    5 tanks loaded for Athens takes hills tiles,will be attacked by none veteran fighter from airbase maybe,Taranto cruiser to Venice for disband,other ships near Athens.
    Rifle disbanded in Munich for a bomber next turn/marine from Kiel support from Dresden to have production 20/airport maked in Frankfurt.
    Subs moved trying to save more,are good for sneak attacks../Sub kill a destroyer near Washington,but will be lost.
    Bombers moved to south to attack Marseilles next turn/one battleship from Kiel in Amsterdam/tank from Tripoli moved to Tunis,will be taken with paratroopers and fighters from Rome and Tripoli next turn/Amsterdam coastal fortress hurried.
    Production aranged and some buildings sold/7 bombers next turn,4 fighters,one in Tobruk trying to shotdown airlifts and exploring/7 engi and 3 diplomats/
    End turn with 1659 g/40 % luxuries for celebrations,science 0.

    August 1940 Turn 2

    Cruiser near Amsterdam attacked by destroyer,survives,that sub lost killed by cruiser near Washington,few cities celebrations,Allies Advanced flight,next research is Rocketry,this is nice..
     
  15. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Prof. Garfield, I believe the source of confusion for catalin72 and myself and perhaps others is that you named the city on the coal "Athens Ferry" which made your sentence rather difficult to comprehend. I got it only when I read your detailed explanation. By the way, brilliant plan.
     
  16. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Romania
    August 1940 Turn 2 Part II

    Few cities celebrations/Steal Mass Production from Vichy/3 bombers kills garrison in Marseilles,one veteran/tank kills rifle on mountain fortress,red to black.../troops arranged in strong position,mountains,hills/2 engi makes road in river near Milan,mountain fortress have road/wounded tank near Paris takes Marseilles,17g, luck again,coastal fortress,etc/6 partisans/2 killed by that tank,one with bomber,veteran/
    One tank kills garrison in Bordeaux,take city,good buildings,3 partisans in hills,but no troops to kill..
    Diplomat from Venice bribe partisan near Amsterdam,105 g,is veteran/sign peace with neutrals,one partisan is over a mine near Bucharest...
    Transport with diplomat and one alpine to Athens/steal Democracy,no revolution,anarchy will be 3-4 turns,all 46.../tank kills 2 troops,rifle +that fighter none,tank kills rifle and take Athens,47 g,luck again,good buildings,university sold/2 partisans/one killed by Bucharest bomber,one by cruiser,no veterans.
    Tripoli fighter kills rifle in Tunis/paratroopers takes Tunis,no partisans,granary, market/fighter kills Allied destroyer none near Rome,veteran.
    Fighter lost trying to kill rifle for trade and techs stolen near London,next kills,veteran/Kiel bomber moved to Oslo/2 bombers moved to repair in airport of Frankfurt.
    Disband partisan in Amsterdam,make transport/disband rifle in Kiel for transport/disband rifle in Frankfurt for a veteran fighter/kill French rifle near Strasbourg/disband Taranto cruiser in Venice for bomber/disband rifle in Berlin,maked airport/2 fighters moved to airport of Frankfurt to repair/battleship moved near Amsterdam,trying to kill fighters from London attacking:),in some games this was the movement of Allies.
    End turn with 1528 gold,taxes too,60/0/40.

    October 1940 Turn 3

    Russians wants retreat of the troops near Leningrad,will retreat/few celebrations/4 freights,2 with oil demanded by Manchester/ 2 destroyers dead in coastal fortress of Amsterdam and Kiel/first freight from Munich,hides,comes in London 144g.
    2 fighters kills garrison in Algiers,paradroop,3 partisans in hills,granary,market/2 ships from Egypt killed by bomber near Athens,can use the airbase now/tank from Berlin kills partisan near Marseilles unfortified,veteran/a partisan near Bordeaux killed by tank garrison,other on wine unfortified by bomber/partisan bribed near Bucharest,107 g,veteran/bomber from Oslo kills 4 cruisers,veteran/kill alpine troops in Vichy with bomber,veteran.
    Rifle from Cologne disbanded in Kiel for the 3th transport.
    End turn with 869 gold.

    December 1940 Turn 4

    Airlift to Suez shotdown by fighter from Tobruk/a celebration,more canceled/Tripoli tank from Tunis kills a partisan from Algiers,veteran,other killed with 2/3 strength/last with veteran fighter from airbase/garrison of Vichy killed by bombers,no veterans/rifle from Strasbourg takes Vichy,28g,library,city wall,bank/Dresden tank veteran killing partisans in fortress near Strasbourg /2 tanks kills other 2 partisans/bomber from Oslo in (51,33),2 Allied battleships in sight can't attack Oslo quick,alpines still far away near Stockholm.
    Moving fighters repaired from Frankfurt to Amsterdam I saw a transport,killed by fighter from Paris,see other transport near Cherbourg and 2 marines/steal economics from Newcastle/ Cologne oil to Manchester 434 g/Munich hides to Manchester 136g/Vienna salt to London 102g,now London demands oil,Prague oil to London 299g.
    Taranto ships with 5 tanks moved 2 tiles near Alexandria/Tobruk makes a diplomat to steal from Alexandria or Suez/one diplomat will bribe barbs alpine near Marseilles/Tunis makes diplomat for Tangiers/airport hurried in Bucharest/fighter hurried in Berlin,airport/few temples,a freight in Cologne hurried for dye to Manchester,barracks in Kiel 160g.
    End turn with 818 gold.
    Some stats:18 engi,5 in production,2 partisans for disband,21 alpine,40 rifle,2 marines,one para,19 tanks,one artillery,13 fighters,2 in production,16 bombers,2 destroyers,3 cruisers,3 battleships,14 submarine,5 transports,2 diplomats.


    February 1941 Turn 5

    Allied cruiser and battleship none 'resolved' in coastal fortress of Marseilles/a celebration,few canceled/2 freights/Spanish rifle in Marseilles tiles,demand retreat,some subs are near Spanish cities,a sneak attack is very good...
    Bomber from airbase near Athens kills a rifle in Alexandria,veteran,second bomber wounded kills last rifle,wounded tank from transport takes Alexandria,bad luck,no airport,etc,just marketplace and aqueduct/2 partisans,one killed by Taranto batteship,veteran,one by tank already moved to take the city/one rifle killed near Suez by other tank/2 tanks near city,diplomat is a danger in Republic..
    Taranto destroyer disbanded to make airport in Alexandria/moving Tobruk fighter see tank from Suez,can attack the city without wall/killed with a tank/Tobruk diplomat loaded,now in Alexandria,will steal next turn Miniaturization from Suez.
    Last Neutral partisan bribed near Bucharest,110 g,veteran/Bucharest tank kills Allied marines near Paris,too,not veteran.../bomber sees new city,Cambridge near St.Nazaire,(37,53),no garrison/kill marine with bomber,no veteran../try to take with tank from Paris with 0,66 movement,fail,second takes,11 gold,city destroyed.
     
  17. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Romania
    But 4 Allied fighters with different home cities usually defending London where are,or I don't saw the story of them ? Other thing:in 6 cities captured you are very lucky,in 5 more improvements.If you not take London with wall,can loose the city next turn,with attacks or diplomat.Can take London just for a 'star',but thinking about war with Russians,it's not profitable,my opinion,money for bribe will be from trade with London 90%.In my games London was the only Allied city preserved for trade,America is easy to conquer with 2 battleships,2 AEGIS and 2 transports full or not,howitzers,etc.
    Good luck !
     
  18. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Romania
    February 1941 Turn 5 Part II

    Can't delivery dye freight for Manchester,artillery on road,killed by fighter from Amsterdam,so Frankfurt dye to Manchester 256 g,Munich hides to Newcastle 160g,now demand silk,Munich have/end turn with 445 g,but more things hurried.

    April 1941 Turn 6

    Battleships attack in Kiel,alpine lost,but battleship is red to black/few celebrations/steal Miniaturization from Suez/kill garrison in Suez with 2 tanks and a fighter/wounded tank takes Suez,good buildings,airport,etc,137 gold,2 partisans,one far away in hills,can sell granaries now/wounded fighter kills Jerusalem artillery,but not veteran/bribe barb alpine,102 g,moved in Marseilles,one alpine from Marseilles in Kiel/kill wounded battleship near Kiel with cruiser/the only submarine remained on the line New York Belfast is lucky:),a transport in sight,7 units destroyed//begin to work tiles with hidden specials,near Berlin,Dresden tile have pheasant/moving transport with freights saw a submarine near Kiel,destroyed with Kiel fighter/Vienna oil to London 364 g /Milan silver to London 274 g/Munich silk to Newcastle 480 g/granaries sold/
    End turn with 898 g/more hurried,offshore platform in Kiel,airport in Cologne.

    June 1941 Turn 7

    Marines lost in Kiel,attacked by battleship/this killed by Kiel battleship/Suez fighter kills garrison in Jerusalem/wounded tank from ship takes Jerusalem,104 g,market,aqueduct/that tank kills 2 partisans,one with 0,66 movement/bomber kills Suez partisan,veteran/partisan and rifle none killed by tanks/black tank near Suez airlifted to Frankfurt to repair/Taranto cruiser repaired in Athens back to Taranto for disband/Taranto copper to London 230 g/can't make deliveries with oil,engi near Manchester irrigating forest then will decide to take Cherbourg/2 fighters kill garrison,one tank takes the city,36 gold ,good buildings,coastal fortress,etc/4 partisans/one killed by tank from garrison,one with bomber from St.Nazaire,veteran,one with tank from Amsterdam/3th with other bomber,too veteran but red,will guard with a tank if fighters are in Southampton can loose the bomber/tank and diplomat from Algiers goes to Tangiers/Milan rifle disbanded in Marseilles for a transport next turn,need to hurry Spanish 'actions'/ Krakow oil to Newcastle 271 g/Frankfurt oil to Newcastle 539 g,oil not demanded now/rifle Dresden airlifted to Alexandria from Bucharest,in Cologne risk,'fighters near our cities'.
    End turn with 1257 g,stock exchange hurried in Berlin/airport in Munich/more temples hurried.

    Aug 1941 Turn 8

    3 ships dead in Cherbourg coastal fortress,but 3 tanks yellow/4 celebrations/Allied develop Rocketry,next Combined Arms/submarines moved previous turn to St.Nazaire sees a transport,9 units destroyed,and a destroyer near transport/silk appears near Berlin,mined/steal Rocketry from Southampton
     
  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    How many objectives and how many cities did you have at this point?
    What do you mean by resolved?
    I guess I had really bad luck with my Alexandria. My first conquest attempt in Dec 1940 resulted in the loss of 6 tanks and 1 cruiser without being able to kill a single defender. My second attempt in April 1942, while successful, cost me a battleship and 2 vet tanks.
     
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    1942/2 Allies lose a destroyer and a helicopter attacking me.
    Allied destroyer killed.
    Hamburg, Avignon, and Sofia founded. Copper to English for 166. Domestic gold for 26.

    1942/4 Allies and French cancel alliance!?
    Massive attack on Alexandria starts. Lost battleship. Vet battleship barely kills a rifleman. Lost 2 vet tanks. Vet bomber kills a paratrooper. 2 bombers kill 2 more defenders. The city is captured for Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Library, and 204g. 4 partisans appear and are killed by tanks.
    A Bomber and 2 tanks kill the 3 defenders of Suez. The city is captured for 160g and a badly needed airport. 2 partisans appear, 1 is killed.
    Allied destroyer killed.
    Normandy founded.

    1942/6 Allies develop Computers. Allies lose a cruiser attacking my battleship.
    Allied destroyer, partisan killed.
    London investigated. It has City walls, coastal fortress, and a whopping 14 land defenders. There are currently no fighter planes stationed there. 4 of my 6 bombers are in Suez right now. I need a massive number of bombers or howitzers.
    Domestic deliveries for 27, 124, 75. Gold to Spanish for 58. Silver to London for 267. T3L3S4

    1942/8 Allies lose a cruiser attacking Cherbourg.
    Allied artillery killed. 2 allied battleships plus one submarine killed and submarine lost.
    Gold to Barcelona for 246. Copenhagen founded. Sold all 22 granaries. Should have done this 2 turns ago.

    1942/10 Allies lose a submarine attacking me.
    Espionage -> Computers.
    Allied artillery killed.
    Southampton has city walls, coastal fortress, and 4 land defenders. London is down to 6 defenders. Manchester has 5 defenders.
    Germs to Russian Riga for 94. Wine to allied Jerusalem for 68. Silk to London for 840. Rheims founded.

    1942/12 Allied cruiser kills alpine defender of Cherbourg. Allied bomber kills vet wounded battleship in Alexandria. Allied destroyer sinks a submarine.
    2 Allied naval units sunk. Computers stolen from Jerusalem.
    Bombers kill 2 defenders of Jerusalem. The city is captured for 130g. 3 partisans appear and are all killed.
    Silver to Russian Kharkov for 34. Cloth to Ankara for 48. Upland founded.
    Boat with 2 spies and 6 vet tanks attack walled Southampton; 1 loses, 4 kill a defending rifleman, and the last one takes the city for 272g. This reduces London's defense from 10 down to 8. Second boat with 2 vet marines and 6 vet tanks attacks London. 4 vet tanks in a row lose to riflemen in London. 3 Bombers are called in and they kill 3 defenders; 5 still remain but 4 are wounded and one is artillery. Vet battleship and a vet marine barely manage to kill 2 and one marine is lost. Vet AEGIS is called in and also lost. Last 2 tanks and a fighter finish off the 2 wounded riflemen and the artillery. London is captured by paratrooper for Shakespeare, Newton, Darwin, and 432g. Allied government escapes to Manchester. 2 English partisans killed. Marginal Victory achieved.

    Status at Dec 1942
    Axis objectives: 33/70
    Population: 30.1M; Cities: 50; Techs: 74; Government: Republic
    Gold: 1665; Cost: 651; Trade routes: 62;
    Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Leo, Bach, Eiffel, Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Library, King Richard, Shakespeare, Newton, Darwin,
    Units: 19 Engineers, 60 defenders, 1 Marines, 1 paratrooper, 22 tanks, 5 fighter planes, 7 bombers, 14 warships, 4 transports, 3 Spies, 4 vans
    Goals: Conquest of England. Bribing Spanish Tangiers. Conquest of Baghdad. Conquest of the rest of middle east?
    Russian: 33 cities, 63 techs, Communist, 25 objectives;
    Turk: 5 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 2 objectives;
    Spanish: 9 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 3 objectives; Magellan;
    Neutral: 1 cities, 57 techs, Monarchy, 0 objectives; war with me, allied with allies
    Allies: 10 cities, 72 techs, Democracy, 7 objectives; Adam Smith, Liberty, Suffrage, Hoover dam; Allied with Neutrals, war with me
    French: 3 cities, 64 techs, Democracy, 0 objectives; war with me
     

Share This Page