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GOTM 180 spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Major Advantage, Jul 14, 2016.

  1. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    So, finally back at playing civ2 again.

    The game is running pretty good so far, hut luck was great (for the most part), AIs are friendly, though not extremely helpful when it comes to research assistance...
    Some initial considerations:
    We are playing prince-level, so going for republic instead of monarchy is an option. But since the terrain was not that great AND since we have Bronzeworking, which means a straight shot for monarchy, I decided against republic.
    We have two settlers (which we rarely have these days), so we can either found two cities early on, or keep the second settler until the city has built a size-1-settler or keep him even longer. I chose to speed things up and founded my second city early.

    First part of my log:

    -4000 Move SE and NW
    -3950 Persepolis founded (54,62)
    -3900 Research Alph
    -3750 Pasargadae founded (50,58)
    -3700 Persepolis warrior
    -3650 Alph->Burial
    -3350 Burial->Laws
    -2950 Laws->Monarchy(32); Advanced Tribe (Susa) @49,67
    -2800 Arbela founded
    -2750 Antioch founded
    -2650 Mon (rev+est.)->Mapmaking
    -2550 25g from hut
    -2300 Mamak.->Currency
    -2000 Tarsus, Gordium founded

    Stats at 2000BC:
    pop.: 130k; Cities: 7; techs: 6; gold: 17; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 3 settler, 2 warrior, 1 boat
    Goals: Expand, find rivals, MPE

    -1950 Curr->Trade
    -1900 Bactra founded (cont. 4)
    -1850 Sidon founded
    -1700 Trade->Writing
    -1600 50g & horse from hut
    -1500 Tyre founded, 50g from hut
    -1450 Stop science, MPE is just 3 turns away
    -1300 MPE built; Hail Babylonians, get writing, exchange maps, no tribute; exchange maps with India, England; HBR from hut
    -1250 Research Msyticism; Sardis founded; get Masonry from Babyls (before they start on Pyramids, we want them for ourselves)
    -1050 Myst.>Lit.; Samaria founded on island 25, could be SSC but 69,57 on island 23 looks even more promising (whale, silk, fish; sole continent); sign peace with Egypt, exchange maps

    Stats at 1000BC:
    pop.: 420k; Cities: 12; techs: 12; gold: 49; Gov.: Mon; wonders: MPE; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 4 settler, 3 warrior, 1 horse, 3 boat, 1 dip, 2 van
    Goals: Expand, Pyramids, build up SSC
     
  2. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I started to play today without to see if the spoiler is started,a big mistake,if know the resource seed I play other way,but...In (49,67) too,advanced tribe,Pasargadae:).
    First part of log:
    4000 BC
    Persepolis founded in tile with settlers,can't wait to move in tile with 3 specials,can be specials 2 tiles to coast.Egyptians are in map,Thebes founded.
    With black click I saw my land is not too big,difficulty is very low.So,'usually' last place in top,a late conquest or will change that place ? :))
    3950 BC-Begin road in wheat with second settler,start Ceremonial Burial
    English,Babylonians in map
    3800 BC-move settler to west and will explore
    3700 BC-saw a special in ocean,whale,Indians are in map
    3550 BC-saw hut,resource seed =19 or 19+32,51
    3500 BC-hut Pasargadae,very good,phalanx maked in Persepolis
    Ceremonial Burial,begin Alphabet
    3400 BC- begin road near Pasargadae,for a hidden special
    3300 BC-warrior in Persepolis,moved to explore
    3250 BC-begin mining near Pasargadae for hidden special
    3150 BC-Alphabet,begin COL
    2900 BC-hurried phalanx in Pasargadae
    2850 BC-phalanx Pasargadae moved to see the tiles of city
    2800 BC-tile mined ,hidden special is pheasant
    2750 BC-COL,begin Monarchy,hurried settler in Persepolis
    2700 BC-settler Persepolis,moved to tile with 3 specials,one is wheat of capital
    2550 BC-Susa founded,whale and other special in ocean,I don't saw now this
    2500 BC-second phalanx in Pasargadae,moved to explore
    2350 BC-Monarchy,begin Writing,Revolution
    2300 BC-hut in forest,barb horsemen,bad luck..but phalanx is in forest,can't be killed
    2250 BC-phalanx kills horsemen defending,revolution ended
    2200 BC-phalanx in Susa
    2150 BC-hurried settler in Persepolis
    1950 BC-Writing,begin Literacy,Pasargadae settler,begin Colossus
    1800 BC-second phalanx in Persepolis,begin Colossus
    1600 BC-Literacy,begin Mysticism
    1550 BC-hurried settler in Susa
    1500 BC-Arbela founded
    1250 BC-Mysticism,begin Currency
    950 BC-Currency,begin Map Making
    875 BC-2 settlers,Susa and Arbela
    850 BC-Antioch founded
    775 BC-Map Making,begin Philosophy
    650 BC-diplomat Antioch,trireme Arbela
    625 BC-trireme saw a tile 4 specials,one is iron,one is fish of Antioch
    575 BC-Colossus in Pasargadae/Philosophy,choose Trade,begin Horseback Riding
    AI don't start wonders,this is strange..Maybe 3 civs are in a continent,some wars.
     
  3. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Catalin, I see you built quite a lot of phalanxes. That is a waste of resources, if you want to explore, build warriors for only half the shields. They have less chance to survive against barbs from huts, but you are still better of with warriors. If you lose a warrior, so what, the are easily to replace.
    If you want defenses against barbs, forget about it, you will not need them early in the game. And later on, defenses are still a waste in my point of view. Let the barbs grab a city or two, it's not the end of the world, just a slight change of plans. Build a dip and bribe back the cities, in the end that is cheaper than have defenses everywhere.
    I had built nothing but settlers for new cities, except for an occasional warrior for explloration and later boats for oversea expansion.
    Regarding your logs, I see that you do not include the statusses (or stati?) in your logs, I think they are quite helpful to compare our games, especially, number of cities, techs and wonders. (I usually do not write those stats down during playing, but I keep a save to do so later when I post my log here.)

    My next 1000 years:

    -975 100g from hut
    -950 Barb horse from hut; Hamadan founded at SSC-spot
    (Barb horse kills our warrior)
    -925 Advanced tribe (Ergili) far north
    -900 Pyramids built
    -875 Lit.->Philo; Dariush Kabir, Ghulaman founded; 25g from hut; 2 vans on their way to Egypt
    -850 Gift Lit. to all 3 AIs who are researching it
    -800 50g from hut; AI's research: Rep, Math, Construction, Philo
    -775 Philo->Wheel->Pottery; Get Pottery from India
    -750 Research Seafaring; Finally somebody is working on WC; 1st delivery for 192
    -725 Seaf.->Math; 50g from hut
    -700 Delivery for 140
    -675 Math->University; Zohak founded
    (Babyls Republic)
    -625 4 barb horses in the north, our horse kills 1 and vet, now we need defenses in Ergili; Get Republic from Babs, switch in 4 turns when HG are done
    (Barbs kill our horse)
    -550 HG built; Revolution
    -525 Become Republic; Bribe barb horse for 41, kill another with it
    -500 Most cities celebrate (and all need harbors); Istakhr founded

    Stats at 500BC:
    pop.: 1.15M; Cities: 18; techs: 19; gold: 74; Gov.: Rep; wonders: Pyr, HG, MPE; TR: 0D/2F
    units: 9 settler, 2 warrior, 1 horse, 4 boat, 3 dip, 8 van
    Goals: Expand, Michelangelo to grow past size 5, build up SSC, more trade

    -475 Delivery 184
    -450 Uni->Poly; Jinjan founded
    -425 Lux to 0, cities cannot grow further
    -400 Delivery 248
    -375 Poly->Mono; Deliv. 294
    -325 Mono->Construction; deliv. 308; Nomads from hut; get construction from England
    -275 Astro->Engineering; Colossus built; 184; Borazjan founded from nomads in the far north
    (Egyptians Medicine)
    -250 Michelangelo built; Herat founded north of England; Raise Luxuries for another round of celebrations
    (Babyls Banking)
    -225 Dakyanus founded
    -175 Engin.->Banking; Bampur founded; Get Banking from Babs, Medicine from Egypts; Delivery 430; Barbs west of Babylon, don't waste gold for bribing one...
    (Our dip gets killed)
    -150 Research Sanitation
    -125 Celebrations cancelled again, next round will be when Hamadan has Shakespeare
    -100 Sanitation->Chemistry; Tureng Tepe founded; Delivery 290 (from Hamadan>London, now the city is out of hides-demand)
    -50 Chem.->Economics;Deliv. 152; Merv founded
    (England WC, finally)
    -25 Behistun founded, riot factor finally kicks in; get WC from England, no chance to skip it anyway
    +1 Subvert Elephantine 2*74(20 back), Kandahar, Altin Tepe founded; deliveries 2*180

    Stats at 1AD:
    pop.: 5.12M; Cities: 29; techs: 30; gold: 302; Gov.: Rep; wonders: Pyr, HG, Col, MPE, Mike; TR: 4D/10F
    units: 10 settler, 3 warrior, 2 phalanx, 2 horse, 8 boat, 2 dip, 15 van
    Goals: Expand; Shakespeare, followed by another round of celebrations; Copernicus, Bach, Leonardo + Explosives
     
  4. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    GOTM 180. Where usual strategies are turned on their hairpins. No clue if I'll submit that one tho, this game's getting to be a chore.

    PRE-GAME ANALYSIS: White/Green/DarkBlue absent, Thebes built by the Egyptians. At most 4 players. RESTARTS ARE ON. I wonder what Peaster’s anti-respawn strategy looks like. Ali tells us that NW of the hill, there is a 3-special site on land. Black clicking shows that there is no other land past this 3-special location (only water afterwards) so the risk will be taken in order to optimize landgrabs early. (Might be a mountain square for all I know…) Hoping for some whale specials. These things are amazing earlygame. And midgame. And lategame. (Shame we’re not playing as Japan.)



    …Too soon?


    4000 BC: Move settler no 1 near 3special slot. Settler no 2 goes SW. Continent seems to be snakey from blackclicking.

    3950 BC: Moment of truth… It’s a plains square! London and Babylon (?!?!?) are in the game. Persépolis built.

    3800 BC: Pasargades built. Indians are in the game.

    3700 BC: Persépolis warrior. Nice filler.

    3650 BC: Alphabet > CoL. Usually I’d need to do Burial first to optimize my odds of getting onpath tech by huts (I was doing it wrong!) but I already have BW so it doesn’t apply here.

    3600 BC: Pasargades warrior, unveils… nothing. One of the specials are in high seas. The other one is probably a fish special. This ain’t good.

    3450 BC: Hut. For the love of God, please no barbs… Advanced tribe. YUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSS! This also makes it so Pasargades doesn’t really have anywhere to send any settlers in a timely fashion, so it’s probably going to be on WoW duty.

    3400 BC: I put an entertainer in Persépolis to compensate for size2 no martial law, but I forgot it’s Prince difficulty. Whoops.

    3350 BC: Second Pasargades special is a whale. Nice!

    3300 BC: CoL > Burial. Hut: Chariot.

    3200 BC: Terrain is very polar so far. Lots of tundra.

    3150 BC: 2s in Pasargades. I said I wouldn’t build 2 settlers in there, but 5s output is hard to argue with.

    3100 BC: HOLY CRAP our starting island is small.

    3000 BC: Burial > Monarchy. Seems starting techs are counted in the cycle despite not being counted for tech costs. Good to know. Since we are on Prince difficulty we can be more aggressive on expansion without getting punished WoW-wise… should I have gone for Map Making regardless? Probably not, but we’ll see.

    2600 BC: After some temporary amnesia regarding the necessity of log-maintenance, Monarchy > Map Making. Oedo year 2450, revolt 2500. Arbela built.

    2550 BC: Antioche built.

    2500 BC: I said REVOLT 2500, you forgetful person. Autosave was enabled. Best feature eva!!

    2450 BC take 2: Monarchy established. T3L0S7.

    2250 BC: Map Making > Currency. Difficulty swapped to <nil> for some reason, but an autosave reload fixes things. Didn&#8217;t even need to go to save 2. Weird.

    2200 BC: 3rd Pasargades special is fish.

    2150 BC: Land on landmass 28.

    2050 BC: Landmass 4 is north of Pasargades within trireme reach. It&#8217;s a biggie.

    1850 BC: Taking a gamble: expand harder than usual, with the assumption that I can recoup the lost time on WoWs with vans later. The AIs are slower on Prince with builds than on Deity: double the time in fact. (120% total shields instead of 60%)

    1800 BC: Hut on landmass 25: Settlers, on plain prairie. Huh?? GOrdion built on landmass 4. Tarse was also built at some point, city is located extreme SW of my home continent.

    1750 BC: Trade > Writing. Masonry and Pottery both unavailable. Wait one turn to pop a desert hut so I go over the 8city threshold and can support another wandering tribe unit.

    1700 BC: Sidon built on tundra. I forgot to do my review again.

    STATUS AT 1700 BC: (Beginning of 47th turn)
    Population: 170.000 Cities: 9 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 8 (researching Writing)
    Gold: 37 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 7 income, 0 cost. Production: 25MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: None
    Foreign relations: Nobody has been met.

    I am really feeling the effects of the reduced techrates on lower difficulty levels. Usually you only get Monarchy late 1000 BC&#8217;s and Trade in the 500 BC&#8217;s without outside assistance or great huts.

    1700 BC (Continued) Hut: Barbs, chariot dispatches the lone horseman. Hut: Horseman.

    1550 BC: Tyr built on landmass 23.

    1500 BC: Writing > Masonry. On lower difficulty levels, Pyramids is higher priority than HG. Cutoff is King, usually, but I could push it since it&#8217;s an archipelago game. Sardes built. Swap Persépolis from settler to van, rush van.

    1450 BC: Persépolis van, 50s for MPE. English warriors are spotted. Give Map Making, peace. They don&#8217;t want to trade techs: which is codewords for &#8220;We&#8217;re dumb.&#8221; I promptly exit the conversation, since that&#8217;s legit all they want to do nowadays. Hooray for stereotypes!

    1400 BC: London, York spotted. No maps, no problem. However, London is located on a river. That, my friends, is a problem.

    1300 BC: Samarie built. T7L0S3 to rush a van in time for 150s in Persépolis.

    1250 BC: Masonry > Mysticism. Wavering if I should go MPE first or Pyramids first. I could have researched Pottery but didn&#8217;t&#8230; (Post-game edit: Needed early Repu)

    1100 BC: T3L0S7. Techrate still 5 turns. This is so fast, what the heck?

    1050 BC: Hamadhan built. Hut: SETTLERS. On the English continent, no less. Jackpot. Ergili built. Dariush Kabir built. Effectively a 4-city turn!

    1000 BC: English continent stretches a lot north, so I won&#8217;t settle immediately. Better look for a place where it&#8217;s easier to expand.

    STATUS AT 1000 BC: (Beginning of 61th turn)
    Population: 420.000 Cities: 15 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 12 (researching Writing&#8230; techrate 4 turns. WHAT THE HELL.)
    Gold: 11 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 13 income, 0 cost. Production: 43MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: None. Pyramids 5 turns from completion.
    Foreign relations: Peace with English.

    975 BC: Mysticism > Literacy. As expected, Pottery not available. Maybe go for early Republic. Wouldn&#8217;t be that bad. Except I don&#8217;t have HG.

    950 BC: NONE horseman from a hut far up north (still on continent 4) Chariot is near Babylone. Blunder into an Indian horseman: trade for Pottery, Warrior Code and HBR, and later give Monarchy. Peace, Maps, They only have 2 cities. That&#8217;s really low. Wow, that&#8217;s a big penalty compared to Deity to their rate of growth. Woooow.

    925 BC: Food van in Persépolis: Pyramids next turn. Blunder in the Babylonians (2nd turn in a row!) Peace. Maps. Two-city chump as well.

    900 BC: Persépolis Pyramids.

    850 BC: Hut: Construction. Hut : Archers. Ghulaman built on the English lands.

    825 BC: Still haven&#8217;t made any preparations for an SSC, but Pasargades can do the trick.

    800 BC: T7L0S3 to rush a phalanx. Zohak built. Van in Persépolis for HG.
    Interturn: Egyptians start Colossus. I have no clue where they are.

    775 BC: Literacy > Philosophy. T3L0S7.
    Interturn: Found an Egyptian warrior! All civs found.

    750 BC: Thebes is building the Colossus. I wonder if it&#8217;s worth to let them build it for the trade returns&#8230; it doesn&#8217;t seem as if there is any other civ that&#8217;s suitable for large-scale trade. Landmass 4 tho, which suuucks. Would need 6 Triremes for homeland to Thebes. 10 to extend it to India. Istakhr built.

    725 BC: Jinjian built.

    700 BC: Borazjan.

    650 BC: Philosophy > Polytheism > Monotheism. Going to do this by the book.Hut: Barbs. NOT BY THE BOOK.

    600 BC: Hut: Math.

    575 BC: Persépolis HG. (Post-game edit: Lack of Republic is where I lose pace.)

    550 BC: Herat built.

    525 BC: Dakyanus built. Bampur built.

    500 BC: Monotheism > Seafaring. Tureng Tepe built.

    STATUS AT 500 BC: (Beginning of 81th turn)
    Population: 1,040.000 Cities: 15 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 20 (researching Seafaring, techrate 10 turns.)
    Gold: 22 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 22 income, 1 cost. Production: 81MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids, HG. Undecided on whether LH or Mikes is next.
    Foreign relations: Peace with English.

    475 BC: Terrain is really rocky near the Colony 4 settlements. Sadly it&#8217;s colony 4 and not Colony 6. Ha. Ha.

    450 BC: Antioche celebrates. Antioche gems (d) to London: 252g. That ain&#8217;t terrible. Hut: Settlers. Hut: Crusaders.

    425 BC: Merv built. Hut: Barbarians. Swap Pasargades to LH, need it to explore. Not enough space to settle.

    400 BC: Seafaring > Republic. Hut: AT of Behistoun.
    Interturn: Egyptians switch from Colossus to GL. Uh&#8230;

    375 BC: Rush Lighthouse in Pasaragades for 138g. Tired of not being able to explore the map w/o Triremes.

    350 BC: Kandahar built. No but seriously. Landmass 4 has terrible terrain for colonies. Should have gone for EC. And Early Republic instead of Late Repu. You have to expand with Pyramids to make Late Repu worth it and I have nowhere to expand!

    325 BC: T7L0S3 to rush a few vans, and also because one will be delivered in 2 turns.

    300 BC: Altin Tepe built to box in the Egyptians. T5L2S3 to celebrate Antioche in time for a delivery next turn with the help of an elvis. Losing 8 trade icons next turn, easily worth it.

    275 BC: Antioche celebrates. Build Bunyan in the middle of nowhere (the hill terrain on Landmass 4) Indians: 50g. I have 11 RMS only&#8230; Antioche beads (d) to London: 192g. Tech box full. Should have delayed one turn for a 0-turn Republic revolution maybe? Idk. Late one still.

    250 BC: Republic > Medicine. Give Republic to everyone. Babs: 100g. Egypt: No tribute, their RMS is too high. English: They remove troops. Indians: They cut me off. REVOLUTION. T0L6S4.

    225 BC: MONARCHY. Babs, Indians: 100 and 50g. REPUBLIC. T2L0S8, techrate 5 turns. Yeowtch. I really messed up by waiting for Mikes instead of earlier Repu. I can kiss my game goodbye. 5 vans in Persépolis, 146s left.
    Interturn: Egyptian gov&#8217;t overthrown. They swapped to Republic. YESSIR.

    200 BC: T8L0S2 since I will deliver next turn. Give CB to English. Charsadda built.

    175 BC: Tarse hides (d) to Thebes: 168g. Only so&#8230; T2L0S8. Hut: Settlers, on a faraway land. That city will be responsible for local expansion on landmass 7 and 12.

    125 BC: Medicine > Banking. AIs still haven&#8217;t built a single wonder yet. Small landmass makes my own wonders take longer to build bc less caravan building points and overall less cities. Colossus is still available and not even being worked on!! Can still build it in Pasargades at any moment as soon as I scrounge enough vans to spare. T8L0S2 to rush a harbour in Tyr for next turn. City&#8217;s almost size3 and I will celebrate soon. Ura Tyube built.
    Interturn: Babs tell us to leave Nineve. They got there first, dammit.

    100 BC: Mikes in 3 turns, I will start the celebrations then. Mine pheasant special near Suse. Should have done OCC. (Is OCC harder in lower difficulty levels since you don&#8217;t have gifts from allies since you&#8217;re more powerful than them?) Naples built.

    75 BC: My gamble failed hard. Ergili hides (d) to Thebes: 216g. T2L0S8 for a tech pop. Issos built.
    Interturn: Egyptians know Feudalism.

    50 BC: Banking > University. Cunaxa built. Give the Indians some techs to lower costs. Need to expand on continent 4 and make a secondary shipchain to the English from the colonies.

    25 BC: PERSÉPOLIS MIKES. T6L4S0. All cities above size2 celebrate except for Arbela, which has multiple units outside bounds.

    1 AD: All my cities celebrate. Need to checkup on Sardes every turn otherwise the AI will tell the city workers to use the iron, which will stop growth for lack of food surpluses. I always fall behind on execution speed. This time, it's blindingly obvious why.

    STATUS AT 1 AD: (Beginning of 101th turn)
    Population: 1,040.000 Cities: 34 Government: Republic Total advances: 24 (researching University)
    Gold: 10 T6L4S0 Income/Cost per turn: 126 income, 7 cost. Production: 118MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids, HG, LH, Mikes. Colossus still available, Egyptians working on GL.
    Foreign relations: Peace with everybody. Egyptians have Feudalism.
     
  5. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    1.Not lots of phalanxes,just 1,2 per city,I have few warriors.To explore,what ? :) Our land is small,other continents explored with diplomats,if a hut have barbs,can bribe.
    2.I know the concept 'barbarian farm',but I can't leave barbs to take cities with wonders..
    3.Few days net problems,must replaced a piece for PC.I will continue the log and will write stats.
    Good luck !
     
  6. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    2 phalanxes for a city is enough shields for a settler, or a trireme to ship a settler to new lands... caravan, even. It's risky to leave cities lightly defended always, but it's generally worth it earlygame. Optimization of turns 61 through 100 is generally where GOTM's are decided.

    Also, why explore with diplomats? Explorers are better if Republic, and bribing isn't worth it if 8 horsemen spawn. Warriors are more than fine assuming there is no other unit being supported as well.
     
  7. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Romania
    IF Republic...
    I don't play in Republic,I don't like.A barb horse is 41 g,a cavalry(maybe none) after Leo with 41 g I think is a good price.My diplomats were used too to bribe units of civs,a warrior(rifleman) 23 g,etc,etc.And Seafaring usually I can take from hut,exchange or from GL,I don't research this.
    A city egyptian was captured by me bribed after barbs attack,one vet horse and the leader,price 52 g.
    Let AI to make barbarian farms ..:).
    I play for the last place,I don't win medals,Iron Cross,'glory' or money with Civ II GOTM.
    Between a map Civ IV BTS and Civ III Conquests I play a map Civ II,is relaxing..:))
     
  8. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    575 BC-700 AD

    450 BC-temple in Pasargadae,Tarsus founded.
    425 BC-MPE in Persepolis,just 4 AI,saw York/exchange with Indians HBR and Pottery for Philosophy and Writing.
    Exhange MM for The Wheel with English,gift Writing for maps/gift Literacy for Egyptians ,exchange maps
    Begin lighthouse in Persepolis.
    400 BC-Begin Construction,ALL AI civs hostile...
    325 BC-Gordium founded in continent 23,3 specials.
    300 BC-hut,advanced tribe,Bactra.
    250 BC-Construction,begin Feudalism,hut Mathematics.
    150 BC-hut nomad
    125 BC-Pasargadae beads to Persepolis 20 g.
    75 BC-hut 50g.
    25 BC-Feudalism,begin Polytheism.
    1 AD-Lighthouse,barbs horsemen with leader in English territory.
    10 AD-disorder in Persepolis,hurried temple,62 g/hut,none archer.
    20 AD-Sidon founded,close to Egyptians/begin Sun Tzu in Persepolis.
    30 AD-hut,tribe,Tyre
    50 AD-Babylonians begin Pyramids,Egyptians GL/hut 25 g
    70 AD-Arbela copper to Thebes 160 g/hut advanced tribe,Sardis
    80 AD-Polytheism,begin Monotheism.
    90 AD-Babylonians war to Egyptians.
    100 AD-hut 50 g/,Pasargadae begin Sun Tzu.
    110 AD-Samaria founded.
    120 AD-Sardis disbanded to make a city one tile distance with 4 specials.
    130 AD-Pyramids in Persepolis,Egyptians changed to Gl/Hamadan founded 4 specials/hut Engineering.
    140 AD-Horsemen barb bribed near Heliopolis,41 g,none.
    150 AD-Barb horse kill garrison in Heliopolis/pheasant mined near Sidon/begin Sun Tzu in Persepolis.
    160 AD- Great Library in Pasargadae,with all 4 civs hostile need to gift too more techs for one,and they want advanced techs first.AI changed to HG/Barbs capture Heliopolis,incite revolt,52 g,a vet horse,one diplomat,the leader.
    190 AD-barb archers near Tyre,near my none archer,killed 2 units.
    200 AD-First tech from GL,Seafaring.
    220 AD-Monotheism,begin Invention.
    230 AD-Saw Alexandria near Heliopolis when I want to make a city in river,bad../library in Pasargadae,begin a wonder.
    240 AD-bribe Egyptian phalanx near Heliopolis,55g/saw Ellipi of Babylonians.
    250 AD-Babylonians revolution to Republic/Bactra silk to Pasargadae 120 g.
    280 AD-Ergili founded
    290 AD-Egyptians HG.
    300 AD-English begin Great Wall/Dariush Kabir founded/gift Construction to Babylonians,exchange Monotheism with The Republic,they research Banking,I want Democracy/gift 3 techs to Indians,maps.
    Tribute 200 g from Babylonians,75 g from English.
    310 AD-Invention,begin Astronomy
    Tribute 250 g from Indians,75 g from Egyptians.
    320 AD-Egyptians pay tribute 50 g/hut 100 g.
    330 AD-bribe warrior Egyptian 23 g.
    340 AD-Barb chariots near Heliopolis/Bactra silk to Persepolid 39 g
    Egyptians refuse to pay tribute,war next turn...?
    350 AD-Babylonians propose alliance against Egyptians,I refuse.
    Egyptians again refuse to pay tribute,bribe archer egyptian,75 g,is none.
    360 AD-Egyptians refuse to pay tribute and declare war.
    370 AD-Barbs near Samaria,archers/crusader kill,veteran.
    380 AD-Ghulaman founded/a barb horse in forest killed with horse,veteran.
    390 AD-Babylonians have Banking,tribute 100 g/crusader attacks Alexandria,veteran on phalanx,city destroyed,can make now city in river,sign cease for 100 g and peace,bribe egyptian warrior for 24 g.
    400 AD-Babylonians tribute Banking,this is good..
    410 AD-Astronomy,begin Democracy/Zohak founded,3 specials,one hidden/barb horse killed,barb leader captured,100 g,near Heliopolis.
    430 AD-gift The Republic for key civ,Indians,they pay tribute 100 g.
    440 AD-Egyptians refuse to pay tribute.
    450 AD- Leonardo in Pasargadae.
    Egyptians refuse to pay tribute and declare war/Istakhr founded.
    460 AD-Archer kills settler ,veteran/Jinjan founded.
    480 AD-Pasargadae aqueduct,begin Copernicus.
    500 AD-Borazjan founded in desert,3 specials in ocean//horse vet kills archer and settler/Pi-Ramesses destroyed,9 g,a crusader veteran kills phalanx garrison.
    510 AD-Democracy,begin Navigation,sign cease fire with Egyptians for 100 g and peace/Herat founded.
    530 AD-Trireme attacked by barb trireme survives,veteran/Dakyanus founded.
    Indians kill a leader..for me:),tribute 100g.
    540 AD-barb horse bribed near Delhi,41 g/Babylonians tribute 100 g.
    Next turn will have Statue in Persepolis,revolution.
    550 AD-Fundi estabilished/Bampur founded in English continent,2 fish,other special don't see now.
    English hostile 1000 years...,others uncooperative.
    560 AD-Barb chariot bribed with diplomat in trireme,61g,leader captured with him near Delhi,100 g.
    570 AD-Antioch beads to London 64 g.
    580 AD-Copernicus in Pasargadae
    620 AD-English Great Wall,this is not good for me..
    630 AD-Navigation,begin Theology/Tureng Tepe founded.
    650 AD-hut nomad,taken with explorer/see Warwick on coast,english warrior bribed 63 g,is none.
    660 AD-Egyptians pay tribute 75 g/Merv founded.
    670 AD-Behistun founded/other nomad from hut with explorer.
    680 AD-Kandahar founded in jungle,4 specials,one hidden.
    Babylonians pay tribute 100 g.
    690 AD-Sun Tzu in Persepolis/Gordium beads to Memphis 92 g/Tarsus wine to Memphis 140 g/Altin Tepe founded.
    700 AD-English steal Trade from Bampur I declare war.
    One legion ,one settler killed with horse and crusader.
    Stats at 700 AD :
    Fundamentalism,314 g,taxes 0/80/20,
    Cities:28,population 4 530 000
    Techs:30
    Wonders:pyramids,Colossus,Lighthouse,Great Library,Sun Tzu,Marco Polo,Michelangelo,Copernicus,Leonardo,Statue of Liberty.
    Units:26 settlers(3 none,2 nomads and one from 2 in the start),52 defensive units,17 horse,one elephant,7 crusaders,7 caravels,3 diplomats,3 vans,one explorer.
    F3:Supreme and Spotless.
    Babylonians:No wonders,Republic,5 cities,16 techs,Uncooperative,peace,39 gold,contact with me and Egyptians.
    Egyptians: Hanging Gardens,Despotism,3 cities,14 techs,Uncooperative,peace,109 gold,contact with me and Babylonians.
    English: Great Wall,Despotism,8 cities,15 techs,Enraged,war,609 gold,contact just with me.
    Indians:No Wonders,Despotism,2 cities,14 techs,Uncooperative,peace,91 gold,contact just with me.
    Goals:peace with Babylonians and Indians,stopping of Egyptians expansion,conquering of few English cities(not coastal),land route Heliopolis-Babylonians cities,more trade,exploration of all islands,democracy estabilished quickly using fundi money for temples and markets.
     
  9. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    1. Our continent is small, but it still needs to be scouted for the best city sites, so that the settlers do not need to spend turns on that. One or two total is enough for this game, after that, they should be exploring the nearby continents.
    2. I was not talking about "barb farming", I think that concept is useful on very, very, very rarely occasions. Just do not build any defenses at all, and if barbs take that city, bribe the city back as soon as possible. Ind the end, that will be cheaper than building defenders everywhere and paying for their support.

    OK, if you are happy with things as they are, fine! :)
    I was just making some suggestions in case you might want to try out a different strategy.


    Regarding AI wonders, the same happened in my game. I am building my spaceship right now and no AI civ has built any wonder so far. I am not even sure if they had started one.
     
  10. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    462
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Romania
    1.One of the activities of barbarians is PILLAGING.2 horsemen free in my territory can make more damage.A road=min 2 turns,irrigation=5 turns,mine=10 turns.If I don't have few mounted units to kill,my settlers work for nothing.
    2.About best city sites,if see my log,I wrote sometimes about hidden specials,city have 3 specials,etc.I make cities JUST verifying with Finder number of specials,hidden or not.
    3.In few months will be available Civ VI.I wrote few times this,Civ II is a nice game,because is simple,have standard texts in diplomacy,more times silly,ridiculous,but can be funny.Not funny is this,AI in Civ II is really dumb,predictable and can be more situations out of reality,a civ have Space Flight,but don't have The Wheel:)).Other thing,to 'throw' with a van in a city and to receive money,whatever it is in van,it's not OK.In Civ III and IV,just the king have resources,strategic,luxury,etc,he decides how make trade with these resources with other kings.
    4.When I started to play GOTM,I knew 'the ways' of other players,experts in Civ II vs AI,'offline players',the term used in networks for multiplayer games.Republic,peace,maps,trade,ships chain,democracy,spaceship after 1000 AD,etc.Is 2016,my 'goal' is to understand Civ V,the fans of Civilization series are divided,Civ IV Beyond The Sword or Civ V Gods and Kings is the best Civ game?
    The polls are to Civ IV BTS,my favourite game,I said this here,the best strategy game in my opinion.
    I have a subscription in YouTube,an american player expert in Civ IV BTS and other TBS type games.
    He have videos when plays Civ V,he said 'is not a bad game',maybe will understand this 'strange' game with hexagons,not tiles and one single unit in a hexagon.
    Unfortunately(for me),friends from here playing Civ II GOTM don't play Civ III or Civ IV,don't like.
    Who can play Civ II with good results,can play good Civ IV,is sure this and advices from they are welcome.I read strategies articles,but a simple advice with explanation is the best...
    Ali and other players have explained to me many things,and showed me articles,thanks for this,but is hard for me to make 'performance' in Civ II now,is too late...
    Good luck all ! :)
     
  11. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    You can tell me about it. The more mechanical my play becomes, the less fun it starts to get. Apologies for earlier.
     
  12. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Romania
    No problems friend,is my fault for confusion,sure warriors or phalanxes explore my small land,and I prefer to have diplomats in trireme to explore without Seafaring,more times a hut can be coastal,if hut have barbs,diplomat will retreat in trireme and next turn can bribe one unit or 2.And anyway,with diplomats can steal a tech,can estabilish embassies,can bribe AI units,etc,diplomats are units necessary in game.In Civ III and Civ IV,with scouts or explorers have better results from huts.
    I don't know if in Civ II is like in these games,but I saw in the years of Civ II,with explorers or diplomats/spies more times can take nomads or a good tech from a hut,coincidence or not.
    Maybe is a thread here about this.
    Good luck !
     
  13. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    I don't recall such a thing being researched in Civ2 when I checked a hut-outcomes paper. Odds are 20% each outcome unless close to a city or on a new landmass. Either unit-specific hut outcomes hasn't been research or went negative.
     
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I started playing last night and after some consideration opted to go for OCC. Built my capital at the 3 special site and went straight after Monarchy which was established in -2450 due to good hut luck giving me Ceremonial Burial as I was researching it.

    Only Babylonians have so far agreed to ally with me and because their power is lower than mine I yet have to receive any gifts. Egyptians have a nearby city which must have come from an advanced tribe and it has been the destination for 4 vans so far.

    I have Marco and Colossus while others have just started building wonders.

    Played till about -200 last night. Will post a log soon.
     
  15. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Strategy is OCC

    Date, Produced, Tech achieved, Other notables

    -4000 Settlers move towards the 3 special site
    -3850 Persepolis founded on 3 special site.
    Work on Warrior started.
    -3800 Whale revealed.
    -3650 Warrior Work on wonder started
    -3600 Alphabet
    -3500 archer from hut.
    -3300 Persepolis is size 2
    -3150 Code of Laws Ceremonial Burial from hut!
    So glad I waited 2 turns to tip this hut

    Status at -3000
    City Size: 2 Government: Despotism Gold: 24 Techs: 4 Trade routes: 0
    Structures:
    Wonders:
    Units: None settler, Warrior, Archer
    Goals: Monarchy, Trade, Marco, and Colossus
    white?: No contact
    Babylonian: No contact
    blue?: No contact
    Egyptian: No contact
    English: No contact
    Indian: No contact

    -2800 Persepolis is size 3
    -2450 Monarchy Monarchy established. T3L0S7
    -2200 Persepolis is size 4

    Status at -2000
    City Size: 4 Government: Monarchy Gold: 68 Techs: 5 Trade routes: 0
    Structures:
    Wonders:
    Units: None settler, Warrior, Archer
    Goals: Trade, Marco, and Colossus
    white?: No contact
    Babylonian: No contact
    blue?: No contact
    Egyptian: No contact
    English: No contact
    Indian: No contact

    -1950 Currency Trade not a choice; chose mapmaking
    -1700 Colossus
    -1550 Persepolis is size 5
    -1500 Mapmaking
    -1100 Trade T7L0S3

    Status at -1000
    City Size: 5 Government: Monarchy Gold: 145 Techs: 8 Trade routes: 0
    Structures:
    Wonders: Colossus
    Units: None settler, Warrior, Archer
    Goals: Marco
    white?: No contact
    Babylonian: No contact
    blue?: No contact
    Egyptian: No contact
    English: No contact
    Indian: No contact

    -0900 Persepolis is size 6
    -0775 Marco T2L4S4
    Need to lower treasury before approaching rivals
    -0750 Caravan Persepolis celebrates
    Trade, Monarchy, Currency, Laws -> Egyptian (6) -> peace, Writing, no alliance, maps
    Mapmaking -> Indian (3) -> peace, no alliance, maps
    Ceremonial Burial, Trade, Monarchy -> English (5) -> peace, no alliance, maps
    Bronze Working, Trade, Monarchy -> Babylonian (2) -> peace, no alliance, maps

    -0725 Babylonian -> alliance. T3L3S4
    -0700 Trireme
    -0625 Caravan Literacy T0L3S7
    -0600 Beads to Egyptian Elephantine for 192
    -0575 Caravan Mysticism Refused 150g from Babylonian for war on Egyptians

    Status at -0500
    City Size: 6 Government: Monarchy Gold: 112 Techs: 11 Trade routes: 1
    Structures:
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco
    Units: None settler, Warrior, Archer, Trireme, 2 vans
    Goals: Philosophy, Republic
    Babylonian: 3 cities, 10 techs; allied with me, war with Egyptians
    Egyptian: 5 cities, 12 techs; war with Babylonians
    English: 3 cities, 8 techs;
    Indian: 3 cities, 8 techs;

    -0475 Persepolis is size 7. T2L4S4 to continue celebration
    -0450 Marketplace Undemanded Copper to Elephantine for 108
    -0425 Philosophy Horseback riding from hut.
    Republic Republic established. T2L2S6
    Undemanded Copper to Elephantine for 108
    -0350 Literacy -> Egyptian -> Seafaring
    -0300 Library Medicine T3L3S4. Warrior disbanded
    -0275 Caravan
    -0250 Persepolis is size 8. T4L2S4
    -0225 Caravan
    -0200 Caravan Wine to Elephantine for 206.
    -0175 Caravan Wheel T7L2S1
    -0150 Caravan
    -0100 Caravan
    -0075 Beads to Memphis for 201
    -0050 Caravan
    -0025 Caravan
    +0001 Caravan Seafaring -> Babylonian (4) -> Banking, maps

    Status at +1
    City Size: 8 Government: Republic Gold: 104 Techs: 18 Trade routes: 3
    Structures: Marketplace, Library
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco
    Units: None settler, Archer, Trireme, 7 vans
    Goals: Shakespeare, Copernicus, celebrating to size 12
    Babylonian: 3 cities, 14 techs; allied with me, war with Egyptians
    Egyptian: 7 cities, 14 techs; war with Babylonians
    English: 4 cities, 9 techs;
    Indian: 4 cities, 9 techs;
     
  16. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Date, Produced, Tech achieved, Other notables
    +0010 Philosophy -> Babylonian (4) -> Masonry
    Republic, writing, seafaring -> English (3) -> Construction
    Republic -> Indian (2) -> maps
    +0020 Caravan
    +0030 Shakespeare Persepolis celebrates. Hides to Thebes for 306.
    +0040 Aqueduct Engineering Persepolis is size 9. Egyptians capture Babylon
    T2L2S6
    +0050 Persepolis is size 10
    +0060 Persepolis is size 11
    +0070 Harbor Persepolis is size 12
    +0080 Caravan Wheel, Philosophy -> English -> Math. T4L0S6
    +0100 Caravan
    +0110 Egyptians build Pyramids
    +0120 Diplomat
    +0130 Babylonians and Egyptians reach peace
    +0140 Caravan Sanitation Barbarians capture English York. T8L0S2
    +0170 T8L2S0
    +0180 Sewer
    +0190 Caravan Barbarians land north of Persepolis
    Persepolis is size 13. Hides to Alexandria for 352
    T2L2S6
    +0200 Caravan Persepolis is size 14
    +0210 University Barbarian archer pillages irrigation
    Persepolis is size 15. Hides to Thebes for 368
    +0220 University Persepolis is size 16. Barbarians pillage again
    +0230 Caravan Astronomy Barbarian archer dies in attack on my archer on hill
    Persepolis is size 17. Barbarian leader for 100g
    +0240 Caravan Persepolis is size 18. T3L3S4
    +0250 Caravan Persepolis is size 19
    +0260 Caravan Persepolis is size 20
    +0270 Copernicus Persepolis is size 21
    +0280 Theory of Gravity Persepolis is size 22
    +0290 Persepolis is size 23 and temporarily out of food
    T7L0S3
    +0320 Bank Economics T5L0S5
    +0330 Caravan
    +0340 Caravan
    +0350 Caravan Chemistry
    +0360 Caravan
    +0370 Caravan
    +0380 Caravan Navigation Hides to Thebes for 464
    +0390 Caravan Physics T4L0S6
    +0400 Caravan Sanitation -> Egyptian (6) -> Iron Working
    +0410 Caravan
    +0420 Caravan Invention
    +0430 Newton Indians build Hanging Gardens. T3L0S7
    +0440 Caravan Magnetism
    +0450 Galleon
    +0460 Caravan Gunpowder
    +0480 Metallurgy Invention -> Egyptian -> Bridge Building. T2L0S8
    +0500 Electricity 100g from hut. Tech bombed English (my key Civ)

    Status at +500
    City Size: 23 Government: Republic Gold: 298 Techs: 37 Trade routes: 3
    Structures: Marketplace, Library, Bank, University, Aqueduct, Sewer, Harbor
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton
    Units: None settler, Archer, Trireme, Galleon, Diplomat, 5 vans
    Goals: Refrigeration, celebrating to max size, Railroad
    Babylonian: 1 cities, 17 techs; allied with me
    Egyptian: 9 cities, 27 techs; Pyramids
    English: 6 cities, 27 techs;
    Indian: 5 cities, 18 techs; Hanging Gardens
     
  17. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Next part of my log until 250 AD. Everything went well, kind of boring... ;)

    +10 Economics->IW; 488
    20 IW->BB; 128, 220
    (First time barbs show up, except for huts. It hits the Egyptians though)
    30 Delivery 144; raise Luxuries
    40 BB->Gravity(Delaying Invention as long as possible); Bunyan, Charsadda, Ura Tyube founded
    50 Del. 264
    60 Del. 440
    70 Gravity->Navigation (keeping the 10s-slot); Neapel founded; 168, 136, 384, 232
    80 Nav.->Physics; 72, 150, 195, 144
    90 Phys.->Invention; Issus founded
    100 84, 147
    110 Cunaxa founded
    120 Invention->Magnetism; Cremona founded; 117
    130 Leonardo built; Cannae founded; 184
    140 Mag->Steam Engine; Copernicus built; deliv. 99, 198
    150 180
    160 Steam->Gunpowder(prioritize engineers over Bach); 285, 168, 275
    170 Gunp.->Demo (why had I thought explosives would be available???);
    (Barb Legion disembarks on island 26, this is not good)
    190 Demo (revolt + est.)->Explosives; Move musc out of Hamadan; 342, 330; Capua founded
    200 Expl.->Feudalism; Lille, Calais founded; 196, 165
    210 Feud.->Metallurgy; 162, 220,
    220 Metall.->Theology; Sangatte, St. Denis founded; 336, 80
    230 Theo->Railroad; 148
    240 Asnelles, Arromanches founded; 114
    250 Railroad->Electricity->Industry->Corporation(1008); Bach + Darwin built; Mont-St-Michel founded; Gift all techs to India, should be able to trigger next turn...rush another library, better safe than sorry

    Stats at 250AD:
    pop.: 12.36M; Cities: 45; techs: 48; gold: 558; Gov.: Dem; wonders: Pyr, HG, Col, MPE, Mike, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Leo, Bach, Darwin; TR: 27D/18F
    units: 22 engineer, 10 musc, 2 horse, 11 boat, 2 dip, 15 van
    Goals: Expand; Railroad network
     
  18. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    1 AD (cont); Waiting on some cities to grow before delivering. Cremona built. Sardes wine (d) to Heliopolis: 330g. I can only wait so long for some of them. Need to rush some harbours to secure more hides vans before the cities grow.
    Interturn: Babs start GL.

    10AD: T0L4S6 to trigger a tech next turn. Cannae built.

    20 AD: University > The Wheel. Suse dye (d) to London: 248g. They are still under Despotism. Most cities are going to stop celebrating at size 7 due to Mikes not covering redhat unhappiness past that point: energies will be spent on commodity vans, expansion and building up my SSC. T6L4S0. Ergili copper (d) to Thebes: 272g. Techcost is 525! Box full. Einstein hired in Sidon.
    Interturn: Barbs land near English colony of CHarsadda. I will pay tribute to avoid pop loss.

    30 AD: ERgili hides (d) to Thebes: 296g. Getting two vans=a tech! The Wheel > Iron Working. English: give Writing, finally get maps. Their homeland is comically England-shaped.
    Interturn: Pay 50g to save Charsadda from barbs.

    40 AD: Going to delay celebration end by another turn. English: They remove troops. Tarse beads (d) to Heliopolis: 256g. Techcost is 546, so cap would be at 327&#8230; anyways, tech box full. Trade is going well-ish? Kinda light still. But I presume I don&#8217;t need anything more. As long as Thebes keeps its Hides demand.

    50 AD: Iron Working > Bridge building. Antioche hides (d) to Thebes: 378g. Ok, THAT was capped. T5L0S5 for a discovery next turn. Normally I&#8217;d be building up my SSC Pasargades (including a Colossus that&#8217;s still up for grabs) but Pasargades is supplying Hides alongside other cities, so can&#8217;t disrupt the moneymaker just yet.

    60 AD: Bridge Building > Astronomy. Last city was the one that triggered the tech, oof. Antioche hides (d) to Thebes: 429g. Give some techs to the Indians. Wanted to preserve T5L0S5, but no dice. T4L0S6. Capoue built.

    70 AD: Astronomy > Economy. I don&#8217;t have enough money to buy all the hides vans I need, but the only vans that can currently be delivered are Pasargades vans, and I want to keep them to pump up my revenues post-Invention after the Colossus will be built. Going to skip a tech this turn then. T8L0S2. Big fat 0 in my treasury.

    80 AD: Antioche hides (d) to Thebes: 406g.

    90 AD: Economy > Theory of Gravity. My van production is mostly going on hides, I cannot keep up with the pace of technological advancement. Daily reminder that I don&#8217;t even have the Colossus yet! Tyr loses Hides supply. Ergili gold (d) to York: 324g. They are still under Despotism for whatever reason. I&#8217;m still about 5-6 turns away from extending the shipchain to Bombay. T2L0S8 for a tech. Could deliver, but all 3 of my cities with deliverable vans have Hides vans due for production next turn and I don&#8217;t want to disrupt them. Hut. Oh god, there&#8217;s a massive gap&#8230; between Feudalism and Navigation. I know it&#8217;s 7-2-2-2-2 odds, but it&#8217;s still 27/93, so 4% odds total. But 47% chances of a NONE settler&#8230; I don&#8217;t have any settlers, right? And 37 cities. Alea jacta est. Hut: Settlers. Phew. Turin built.

    100 AD: Theory of Gravity > Chemistry. Dariush Kabir hides (d) to Thebes: 408g. Techcost 654&#8230; T3L0S7. I&#8217;m rushing more vans than I am spending due to low tech costs. Maybe I need to deliver more and not care about overdelivering. I have the vans anyway&#8230; but not that much money. I&#8217;ll skip the marketplaces and rely on Temples+JSB to celebrate to size12 I think. Deliver once more. Suse hides (d) to Thebes: 392g. Hides still available!! T8L0S2.

    110 AD: Chemistry > Engineering. Oh god, I think Thebes&#8217; demand just updated, it now demands Wine&#8230; Wait no?? Still Hides, Wine and Gems! That&#8217;s actually surprising. Although I seriously don&#8217;t understand why the city isn&#8217;t celebrating yet with all the trade routes that I&#8217;ve sent their way. Same for London, city hasn&#8217;t grown for ages. Can&#8217;t tell what&#8217;s the problem since the city isn&#8217;t even on Top 5 cities, and it&#8217;s built on grassland. Not that I&#8217;m complaining. Gênes built. Crête built. Dariush Kabir hides (d) to Thebes: 408g, that&#8217;s with 21 squares distance on a normal map between a size8 and a size5. ROI must be around 20% with this thing. T4L0S6. Thebes is size 6. India will be reachable next turn. Road to Babylonia through Continent 4 is still a long ways away.

    120 AD: Engineering > Sanitation.Suse hides (d) to Thebes: 392g. T8L0S2, going to skip a turn. Vérone built. Salamis built. Lisbonne built.

    130 AD: Suse hides (d) to Thebes: 392g. The Republic of Hides is simply NOT GIVING UP. And here I was thinking that this would have been a bad map overall for landing. Ok, serious glut in Tarse now.

    140 AD: Sanitation > Feudalism. Tarse gems (d) to London: 468g. Bactres hides (d) to Thebes: 480g. OK. 36 vans available currently, but I can&#8217;t expand that fast. Egyptians: Trade Seafaring for Feudalism. Hambourg built. &#8220;I&#8217;ll be building up my SSC&#8221;. Delaying popping a hut until I get the last ounce of pre-Invention trade going.

    150 AD: Theology > Invention. Next Oedo year is 190 AD, but I will need JSB before switching and I don&#8217;t know if its going to be up in time. Need 2 vans this turn: I&#8217;ll take a risk and use one from Pasargades since I can&#8217;t use up 2 vans this turn otherwise. Have plenty more from this city to spare. Pasargades hides (d) to Thebes: 456g. PASARGADES NO LONGER SUPPLIES HIDES. Oh, woe. This time it did backfire, as a jungle got cut. Also, India no longer demands Hides&#8230; Memphis demands it as well, but it&#8217;s a long ways away with little in terms of improvements. Arbela silver (d) to Bombay: 500g. Arbela was a size 4 city and Indians are under Monarchy, so hopefully those things change soon?? Hut: Crusaders. Prague built.
    Interturn: Barb ship blunders into mine and is sunk. Vet.

    160 AD: Invention > Gunpowder. Pasargades Temple, starts Colossus. Tyr hides (d) to Thebes: 252g. TEchcost is 888. 4 vans in Pasargades for Colossus. (Is it too late at this point?) Give some techs to the Indians. Dangit, should have gone for Navigation > Democracy instead of Gunpowder > Democracy. I&#8217;m not going to be able to have enough vans to deliver. Pasargades hides (d) to Thebes: 228g. Doing this before Colossus pains me, but I need to do this if I want Demo in 190 AD. Hopefully it&#8217;s not hidden next turn. That would be sad. T2L0S8. Thankfully a lot of infrastructure is prebuilt (Rush a barracks, switch to aqueduct) so WLTPDing costs are mostly taken care of. Salzbourg built.

    170 AD: Gunpowder > Democracy. PASARGADES COLOSSUS.

    180 AD: JSB is going to be one turn too late.

    190 AD: Democracy > Explosives. REVOLUTION. Monarchy. Babs: 25g. Egypt: 100g. English: They remove troops. Indians: 100g. Democracy. 53arrows recouped from corruption. I&#8217;ll need Elvises for one turn before JSB comes online. Hut: Settlers. Bergen built. Accidentaly use a van on food instead of shields for WoWs. FDSNFNDFS:DFNSkstill online next turn. And I don&#8217;t even have Aqueducts, so the food&#8217;s wasted. Dariush Kabir hides (d) to Thebes: 232g.

    200 AD: PASARGADES JS BACH. Dariush Kabir no longer supplying Hides. Tyr hides (d) to Thebes: 288g. What is this? A CPU usage that is not permanently capped at 100%? I should have done this sooner! (RIP two laptop batteries.)T7L3S0, scientist in Persépolis. Milan built.
    Interturn: Egyptians abandon GL. And start it again.

    210 AD: Apparently by using MGE it is impossible for me to shake off the copper and dye bug that clogs up trade lists. And I was just finished applying the CPU fix! Now I have to hunt for virtualization software. But I&#8217;m probably going to reformat my computer soon-ish, so it will have to wait. The Republic of Hides is thus even more important in MGE than in Classic&#8230; thankfully I still have my Classic files and executable on an external HDD. Would need to apply the CPU fix but it&#8217;s not as bad.
    Explosives > Navigation. Suse no longer provides Hides. Seems that there&#8217;s a link between Hides loss and Aqueducts being built? Doesn&#8217;t say so on Solo&#8217;s guide. Sidon silk (d) to size-8 Bombay: 390g. They swapped to Republic without me realizing it! That&#8217;s nice. I&#8217;ll need to slack on pace of delivery since I don&#8217;t have much merchandise in Egypt and don&#8217;t have the necessary WoWs to convert to a 2way chain yet. Got too greedy for hides vans methinks and started to buy shield vans too late.

    220 AD: T6L4S0. 72. Suse hides (d) to Thebes: 228g. T3L4S3. Ghent built.

    230 AD: Navigation > Metallurgy. Not researching Physics yet because I don&#8217;t want to get forced into Magnetism before Leo&#8217;s is up. Seriously suspecting that the English have too many settlers to grow their cities, will need to bribe. Dariush Kabir hides (d) to Thebes: 264g. T6L4S0. Note to self: Optimal games are games where multiple long-range shipchains can be maintained pre-Navigation. One single shipchain is not enough if you plan to abuse Hides deliveries. I think that Pasargades deliveries increased to about360g now, but not now. Not yet. I only have 5 Pasargades hides vans, that&#8217;s less than I thought I had. Better save them. Pace of research has noticeably slowed since I&#8217;m so far behind WoW-wise.

    240 AD: Pop went from 8 to 13 million citizens in the matter of 2 turns. Dariush Kabir hides (d) to Thebes: 264g. Should have built a van in Pasargades every turn and slacked on the other cities maybe.. I&#8217;m spending half my time playing and the other half reminiscing. Dublin built. T1L4S5.

    250 AD: Metallurgy > Physics. Dariush Kabir wine (d) to Delhi: 470g. Much better. Suse hides (d) to Thebes: 268g. T4L4S2. Getting some vans ready for Leo&#8217;s. Up next: Literaly everything else.

    STATUS AT 250 AD: (Beginning of 126th turn)
    Population: 16,220.000 Cities: 52 Government: Democracy Total advances: 42 (researching Physics)
    Gold: 50 T4L2S4 Income/Cost per turn: 416 income, 94 cost. Production: 217MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids, HG, LH, Mikes, Colossus (finally), JSB. Leo&#8217;s in 2 turns. Holy smokes I&#8217;ve got a lot left to build. I&#8217;m not even started on my SSC yet!
    Foreign relations: Peace with everybody.

    I REALLY should have rushed more vans in Pasargades, even from scratch. The whole Colossus-boosted idea of a Hides-supplying STC is quickly unraveling. Sewers in Pasargades, but with only one trade route (Hides&#8230; what else?) and no marketplace (only been building Hides) there&#8217;s not much room for lowering luxury rates, even if the other cities do stay at size12 for now.

    The Republic of Hides worked out nicely, although it&#8217;s a bit sluggish post-Invention and hides demand has dried up. Shipchain/road to Babylon nowhere close to being done, but I have trade with India. Still. I have that nagging feeling that I&#8217;m far behind again, especially WoW-wise. That settler gambit did not pay off at all.

    POST-GAME RECAP: At least I did not fall any further behind techwise. Slow spell coming up, followed by a fast spell.Instead things are rather stable. However, I still have Darwin's unbuilt so maybe I've actually gained tech ground instead of losing it?
    Behind on wonder building pace however. A full 5 wonders behind. That could matter a lot for space race preparedness. A few turns away from Space Flight and still don't have Hoover... not that I actually need it. But still.
     
  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Date, Produced, Tech achieved, Other notables
    +0520 Steam Engine Gems to Thebes for 608.
    +0530 Stock Exchange Refrigeration Gold to Bombay for 624
    After 3 idle turns, settler goes back to work
    +0540 Caravan Explosives Spice to Delhi for 693
    +0550 Caravan Democracy Democracy established. Hides to Delhi for 508
    +0560 Engineer Railroad Persepolis is size 22. T1L0S9
    Shared Railroad with rivals
    +0580 Industrialization
    +0600 Conscription T0L0S10
    +0610 Supermarket
    +0620 Caravan Corporation
    +0630 Freight
    +0640 Freight Steel
    +0650 Freight 50g from hut
    +0660 Freight Refining
    +0670 Freight Persepolis is back to size 23 via natural growth
    +0680 Freight Electronics Gems to Heliopolis for 436
    Barbarian Knight, now none, bribed for 82g
    +0690 Freight Another barbarian Knight, now none, bribed for 82g
    Barbarian leader for 100g
    +0700 Freight Combustion
    +0710 Freight
    +0720 Automobile
    +0730 Superhighways Trireme disbanded. T2L2S6
    +0740 Transport Mass Production Persepolis celebrates. T0L2S8
    +0750 Persepolis is size 24. Engineer disbanded
    Industrialization -> Egyptian -> Feudalism
    +0760 Recycling Persepolis is size 25. Gems to Heliopolis for 918
    +0770 Atomic Theory Persepolis is size 26
    +0780 Persepolis is size 27
    +0790 Mass Transit Chivalry Persepolis is size 28 and maxed out. T2L0S8
    +0800 Barbarian Knight from hut bribed for 82g
    +0810 Factory Leadership 2 Barbarian Knights from hut; 1 bribed for 82g
    Sewer sold
    +0820 Aqueduct sold
    +0830 Recycling Center Tactics Barbarian Knight from hut bribed for 82g
    +0840 2 Barbarian Knights from hut
    +0850 Coastal Fortress Machine Tools hilltop knight survives both barbarians and turns vet
    T0L0S10. Galleon disbanded
    +0870 City walls Mobile warfare
    +0890 Mini 50g from polar hut.
    +0900 Offshore platform Indians build Darwin and get Communism
    +0910 Computers First barbarian uprising in homeland
    +0920 T2L0S8
    +0930 Research Lab Robotics
    +0940 Tank Tank kills barbarian rifleman
    +0950 Nuclear Fission Tank survives barbarian rifleman and turns vet
    +0960 Freight
    +0970 Nuclear Power
    +0990 Nuclear Plant Laser

    Status at +1000
    City Size: 28 Government: Democracy Gold: 755 Techs: 65 Trade routes: 3
    Structures: Marketplace, Library, Bank, University, stock exchange, research lab, Harbor, city walls, coastal fortress, factory, nuclear plant, mass transit, recycling center, super market, super highways, offshore platform
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Newton
    Units: None settler, Archer, 5 none knights, tank, transport, Diplomat, 12 vans
    Goals: Space race
    Babylonian: 1+ cities, ? techs; allied with me
    Egyptian: 10+ cities, ? techs; Pyramids
    English: 7+ cities, ? techs;
    Indian: 5+ cities, ? techs; Hanging Gardens, Darwin
     
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    The end was uneventful. I prepared for rival attacks in vain. Should have made more food vans instead. Scrapped much of my defense to help with the space ship parts near the end and managed to make one part per turn with only one exception.

    Date, Produced, Tech achieved, Other notables
    +1010 Flight Industrialization -> Babylonian -> Pottery, maps
    +1030 Manufacturing Plant Indians land a couple of soldiers near Persepolis
    +1040 Radio
    +1060 Battleship
    +1070 Advanced Flight
    +1080 Airport Gems to English Hastings for 666. 100g from hut
    +1090 Rocketry Conscription -> Indian -> Communism, maps
    +1100 Egyptians build Suffrage
    +1120 Space Flight
    +1140 Apollo
    +1150 SS Structural Plastics
    +1160 SS Structural
    +1170 SS Structural
    +1180 SS Structural Superconductor Power dropped to Strong! Cloth to Oxford for 234.
    +1190 SS Component
    +1200 SS Structural Espionage
    +1210 SS Structural 200g from hut
    +1220 SS Structural Fusion Power 100g from hut. T4L0S6
    +1230 SS Structural
    +1240 SS Structural None rifleman from hut
    +1250 SS Structural Power dropped to moderate. T10L0S0.
    100g from hut
    +1260 SS Structural
    +1270 SS Structural Indians build UN. 100g from hut
    +1280 SS Structural Egyptians build Adam Smith
    +1290 SS Structural English build Michelangleo
    +1300 SS Structural
    +1310 SS Component Egyptians land a freight near Persepolis.
    50g from last hut
    +1320 SS Component Egyptians deliver to Persepolis
    +1330 SS Component
    +1340 SS Component Archer disbanded. Airport sold
    +1350 SS Component
    +1370 SS Module
    +1380 SS Module Egyptians build Magellan
    Battleship disbanded and coastal fortress sold
    +1390 SS Module 15s3c1m space ship launched.
    +1391 Freight
    +1393 AEGIS Cloth to Oxford for 350
    +1394 Environmentalism Computers -> Egyptian -> Polytheism
    +1395 Airport Power still moderate.
    Superconductor, space flight -> Egyptian ->
    Monotheism, Warrior Code
    +1396 Power finally jumped back to Strong. T0L0S10
    +1397 SAM
    +1398 Freight Stealth
    +1399 Egyptians join the space race
    +1400 Stealth Fighter Future Tech 1 Undemanded Beads to Egyptians for 158.
    +1402 Lighthouse Future Tech 2
    +1404 Eiffel T0L10S0
    +1405 Space ship arrives
     

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