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GOTM 181 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Ali Ardavan, Aug 7, 2016.

  1. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I started playing today.

    There are two key decisions early on: whether to make a size 1 settler or not and whether to go for Monarchy or Mapmaking first. Given that Mapmaking is not available as the first tech due to tech hiding, the only way to get it done as the second tech before you accumulate 40 shields is to work fish instead of whale in effect losing 2 shields per turn. With no meaningful use for units on this part of the map, to me the alternatives to size-1 settler were next to useless and thus I chose that.

    For the next decision I chose to go after Monarchy instead of mapmaking. This delayed my expansion but I think it is worthwhile because otherwise Monarchy would have been delayed a lot. I might have reconsidered if it was not for the fact that expansion stops at 3 cities till you make lighthouse.

    The key decision after lighthouse is which direction to expand. Tiny islands are available in all directions. Shall we go for unsettled New Zealand, unsettled Hawaii, or one of the major settled land pieces?
     
  2. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Date Notes

    -4000 Trondheim founded. Work on forest started.
    -3950 -> Code of Laws.
    -3650 Code of Laws -> Monarchy
    -3400 Size 1 settler produced.
    -3350 Trondheim is size 2.
    -3250 Monarchy -> Mapmaking. Monarchy established. T3L0S7

    Status at -3000
    Population: 0.03M; Cities: 1; Techs: 5; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 15; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: 2 Settlers (1 None)
    Goals: mapmaking (in 2 turns), expansion, trade, lighthouse
    Russian: no contact
    Japanese: no contact
    Aztec: no contact
    Chinese: no contact
    English: no contact
    Sioux: no contact

    -2900 Mapmaking -> Currency
    -2850 First boat produced
    -2750 Kaupang founded.
    -2700 Trondheim produces a warrior and starts on Lighthouse.
    -2650 None settler founds Uppsala on forest.
    -2550 Currency -> Trade.
    -2300 Trade -> Writing.
    -2050 Writing -> Mysticism. T7L0S3

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.16M; Cities: 3; Techs: 9; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 17; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders:
    Units: Warrior, Trireme, van
    Goals: Lighthouse, expansion, Marco, Colossus, Hanging Gardens
    Russian: no contact
    Japanese: no contact
    Aztec: no contact
    Chinese: no contact
    English: no contact
    Sioux: no contact

    -1450 Lighthouse built in Trondheim. Boat leaves north with a fresh settler.
    -1400 Mysticism -> Literacy. Second boat leaves east with a settler.
    -1350 Hladir founded on island 24.
    -1250 Aarhus founded on island 32.

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.26M; Cities: 5; Techs: 10; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 42; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse
    Units: 2 settlers, 2 Warriors, 2 Triremes
    Goals: Further expansion (2 settlers are on their way to South West), Marco (in -850), Colossus, Hanging Gardens
    Notes: 4-special Uppsala (island 35) will be the science city
    Russian: no contact
    Japanese: no contact
    Aztec: no contact
    Chinese: no contact
    English: no contact
    Sioux: no contact
     
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Lighthouse was deservedly my first wonder priority. After that I knew I wanted Marco, Hanging Gardens, and Colossus. I chose to go with Marco first, which in retrospect was not a great idea. With a known map and known starting locations there was no map info to be gained. Due to geography no one paid any tributes either. I did get one urgently needed tech (Pottery for Hanging Gardens) out of it immediately and a couple of other techs later on. Overall, Marco is too valuable to pass up. What I am wondering here is whether I should have given Colossus priority. I am confident I will get Hanging Gardens but Colossus will be a competitive race.

    -0950 Viborg founded on the rivered jungle of island 48.
    -0925 Literacy -> Republic
    -0850 Marco built. My power is already Supreme!
    Literacy -> Sioux (4) -> Pottery, maps.
    Literacy -> Aztec (0) -> peace, no tribute.
    English (3) declare war over my demand for tribute.
    -0825 T4L0S6
    -0725 Republic -> Philosophy. Roskilde founded on island 47. Peace, Mapmaking, Republic -> Japanese (1) -> Polytheism, Iron Working, no tribute. Others turn my tribute demand down as well. Republic established. T3L7S0
    -0700 The first 3 cities celebrate. Mapmaking -> Russian (1) -> maps. Trade, Republic, Mapmaking -> Chinese (3) -> peace, maps.
    -0650 Udal founded on island 20. Auckland founded near the northern tip of New Zealand.
    -0625 With 2 cities at size 6 and the science city at 7 all cities drop out of celebration. T4L3S3
    -0550 Sioux start Hanging Gardens; I have 3 vans ready for it. Jorvik founded on island 23.
    -0500 Westness founded on island 42.

    Status at -0500
    Population: 0.82M; Cities: 11; Techs: 15; Government: Republic
    Gold: 14; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco
    Units: 2 Warriors, 3 Triremes, 3 vans
    Goals: Further expansion in Hawaii and New Zealand, Hut hunting, Hanging Gardens (in 4 turns), Colossus
    Foot print: 1 on each of 20, 23, 24, 32, 35, 38, 42, 45, 47, 48, 49 (New Zealand)
    Notes: Despite a space ship strategy, shall I conquer anyone? Japanese, English, and Aztecs are the only viable choices. Sioux is my key civ, Russians too far away, and Chinese a good trading partner.
    Russian: 4 cities, 9 techs; war with Chinese
    Japanese: 3 cities, 11 techs
    Aztec: 1 cities, 6 techs
    Chinese: 3 cities, 12 techs; war with Russians
    English: 4 cities, 10 techs; nominal war with me
    Sioux: 5 cities, 13 techs
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    My fear of missing out on Colossus came to pass without much tension in this period. Chinese could have snatched it away if they wanted to but they opted for Pyramids. Expansion is going better than expected thanks to an Advanced tribe founding Manila.

    -0450 Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Medicine.
    -0400 Hanging Gardens built. Sioux switch to Colossus; I was afraid of that. I wonder why not Great Library. T6L2S2 to get to Colossus quickly.
    -0350 Warrior Code from the first hut! What a waste of effort. Iron Working, Republic, Philosophy, Pottery, Polytheism -> Russian (1) -> Construction. T4L2S4
    -0325 Construction -> Sioux -> Wheel, maps. Senate hands cease fire to English.
    -0300 50g from hut.
    -0275 Chinese build Pyramids. I build Colossus. Sioux switch to Great Library; English abandon. Philosophy -> Chinese -> Banking, maps. Advanced tribe founds Manila.
    -0250 Medicine -> Bridge Building. Wellington founded.
    -0150 Nomad from South east Asian hut.
    -0075 Ravning Enge founded on island 17 and Birka on island 21. Tech bombed Japanese to get their map. Philosophy -> Sioux -> Engineering. Construction -> Chinese -> Masonry. None crusader from south east Asian hut.
    +0001 Jarlshof founded on island 19.

    Status at +1
    Population: 1.2M; Cities: 16; Techs: 24; Government: Republic
    Gold: 112; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus
    Units: 4 settlers (1 None), 4 Warriors, 1 None crusader, 4 Triremes, 4 vans
    Goals: Further expansion in south east Asian archipelago, Hawaii, and New Zealand, Hut hunting in south Asia, trade routes (1 next turn, 2 more on route), Shakespeare, King Richard's
    Foot print: 1 on each of 17-21, 23, 24, 32, 35, 38, 42, 45, 47, 48; 2 on 49 (New Zealand)
    Notes: Still wondering whether I should conquer anyone. Japanese and English would be my top choices.
    Russian: 5 cities, 16 techs; war with Chinese
    Japanese: 3 cities, 20 techs
    Aztec: 1 cities, 8 techs; war with Sioux
    Chinese: 5 cities, 15 techs; Pyramids; war with Russians
    English: 5 cities, 12 techs;
    Sioux: 7 cities, 19 techs; war with Aztecs
     
  5. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    I started to play,is a hard map I think,and I maked 2 big big mistakes,just 2 I see,others can see minimum 10:)).
    First mistake is to research Monotheism and to loose Mike,in this map expansion is all,second mistake is the late expansion in New Zealand,island 49,where can make 3 cities with mines in hills,big production.This was because I don't look in editor with attention every turn or for 2-3 turns,hurry hurry,my bad style...
    Hanging Gardens I don't make in my games,maybe is other big mistake.Hard for me was to manage cities in Republic,no experience,more times cities in disorder...,this maybe for years of MGE with more wars,Monarchy,Fundi,etc,I'm a dumb 'warmonger':))
    Is 1800 AD and I think will win in this map with possible nukes received from Russians and Chinese,too more land,late or not,that's it...

    4000 BC-1 AD

    4000 BC-Trondheim founded in forest,settler begins irrigation,start settler in capital
    3950 BC-Research Code of Laws
    3650 BC-COL,begin Monarchy
    3250 BC-Settler in Trondheim
    3200 BC-Monarchy,begin MM
    3150 BC-Warrior,begin settler
    3100 BC-Revolution,Oedo year for king diff.
    3050 BC-Monarchy estabilished
    2650 BC-MM,begin Currency
    2600 BC-Trireme hurried
    2550 BC-Begin Lighthouse
    2500 BC-Settler on island 38
    2450 BC-Kaupang founded in island 38
    2350 BC-Settler none landed in island 35
    2300 BC-Uppsala founded in forest,island 35
    2250 BC-Currency,begin Trade
    1990 BC-Trade,begin Mysticism
    1550 BC-Uppsala maked a food van
    1440 BC-Start MPE in Uppsala,maybe other big mistake,wonder in SSC...
    1300 BC-Mysticism,begin Literacy
    1200 BC-Second food van in Trondheim,Lighthouse finished
    1000 BC-Literacy,begin The Republic
    900 BC-Aztecs starts Pyramids
    850 BC-The Republic,begin Philosophy,start revolution
    800 BC-Kaupang celebration
    675 BC-Philosophy,Banking choice,begin Medicine
    650 BC-Settler landed on island 21
    600 BC-Hladir founded in island 21,whale+2 fish
    500 BC-Medicine,begin HBR
    475 BC-First hut,horsemen Hladir,but red faces,nothing to make,that's it...
    450 BC-Disorder in Hladir,trireme back,disband warrior
    400 BC-MPE,Power is Mighty-contact Sioux,HBR+Warrior Code for Writing +Philosophy,maps
    Japanese Iron Working for MM,gift Philosophy,maps.
    Aztecs Construction +Masonry for Trade and other tech(I don't remember,not in notepad),gift Philosophy,maps
    From Chinese The Wheel,don't want to exchange maps,peace signed
    From Russians Polytheism,maps.
    English peace,gift techs,maps.
    When MPE is maked,A VERY IMPORTANT MOMENT of the game,any player is careful,but me....
    I forgot to sign peace with all:))),when I remembered,too late,'endless chatter,now begone'...
    375 BC-Begin Monotheism,that big mistake,power is Supreme,all hostile,gift tech for key civ,Sioux now cordial,for a turn..:)
    325 BC-Temple hurried in Uppsala
    300 BC-Begin Colossus in Uppsala
    200 BC-Aztecs builds Pyramids
    175 BC-Food van in Kaupang
    125 BC-Warrior Kaupang moved garrison in Uppsala
    100 BC-Chinese and Japanese war
    50 BC-Hladir settler
    25 BC-Russians want to declare war to Chinese in alliance,refuse
    Second hut near Hladir,nomad,this is really good,not a horse for disorder:))
    1 AD-Settler from Hladir moved to (104,56),3 specials,will make Aarhus,island 22.

    Stats at 1 AD
    Population:540 000,first.Cities:4(penible..),Techs:23,Government:Republic
    Gold:6,Cost:1,temple in Uppsala,Trade routes:0
    Wonders:Lighthouse,MPE.Colossus was maked in 60 AD,with 13 shields waste.
    Units:2 settlers(one nomad),3 warriors,1 horse,2 triremes,1 food van for Colossus.
    Russians:3 cities,Despotism,198 gold,contact with me,war with Chinese,10 techs
    Japanese:3 cities,Despotism,326 gold,contact with me,war with Chinese,10 techs
    Aztecs:pyramids,4 cities,Monarchy,206 gold,contact with me,war with Sioux,15 tech
    Chinese:6 cities,Despotism,290 gold,peace with me,war with Russians and Japanese,14 techs
    English:5 cities,Despotism,201 gold,peace with me,no other contacts,14 techs
    Sioux:3 cities,Despotism,388 gold,peace with me,war with Aztecs,13 techs.
    Goals:Expansion,more trade,elimination of English,Copernicus,Magellan not permitted to loose...
     
  6. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    My size 1 settler was ready in -3400, three turns earlier than yours. Did you ever work on fish or the grassland instead of whale? And if so why?
    This also delayed the discovery of your Monarchy by one turn and its establishment by 4 compared to mine.
    I reached this point in -2650. Your delay is a compound effect of your earlier delays.
    Island 21?! That is so far away. Why did you pass up all the other closer islands? Surely this one has better geography but it is not worth all the extra turns. It took you 12 turns after your lighthouse to build your 4th city; I built mine 2 turns afterwards.
    I am glad to see your Aztecs are prospering. Mine still have one city at +1 and I was wondering if there is something wrong with where I placed them on the map, but apparently not.
    Your early mistake is puzzling to me but that delayed you only by a few turns. Your much bigger mistake, in my opinion, is choosing such a far away site for your 4th city (I had 13 cities before I built on that site) and then not expanding after that: 12 turns after you built your 4th city, you still have 4 cities.
     
  7. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    I started a few days ago, it is still hard to find the time to play but that will be better from Sunday on.

    The good thing about "known map" is that i can use the map editor simultaneously with the game itself are the downgrade to classic (not working with MGE), the bad thing however is that I can do so only for a few minutes, CPU usage goes through the roof and eventually the computer shuts down. So it happened with my game in -2650, autosave is on, so that is not a big problem, but my log was lost as well (I'm doing it in a wordpad window).

    My initial plan was to go for conquest. Not because it would be easy, but because it would be hard. And because the setting was not great for landing anyway and I think I am due for a conquest game, which I have not done for a few games.

    First part of my log:

    Due to computer crash, my log so far is lost...recap: build city, size-1-settler, then trireme built, then LH started; techs Laws>Monarchy(in -3250)>Mapmaking>Currency; settlers have picked up some charges before shipped out, dropped on island 35 and are clearing forest there
    -2600 Kaupang founded on island 35
    -2500 Curr.->Trade
    -2150 Trade->Writing
    -2050 Uppsala founded on island 38

    Stats at 2000BC:
    pop.: 100k; Cities: 3; techs: 8; gold: 53; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 0 settler, 1 boat
    Goals: rush 2 vans for LH, then expansion

    -1800 Writing->Myst.; 2 vans produced
    -1700 LH will be done next turn, then it is 2 settlers and 1 boat to be built, but where to send them? Stop and think... 1st waves will go to New Zealand and Alaska, home the boats to new cities, homeland will produce 2nd wave for Philipines and Hawaii
    -1650 LH built, but will be useless for a couple of turns...maybe I should have added only 1 van and prepare the 1st wave instead? Btw, chopping down the trees on 67,75 was a pretty bad idea...
    -1500 Trondheim riots. Right, this might happen on king level... And the high council is on, everybody complains, turn it off
    -1300 Myst->Literacy; 2 settlers built
    -1050 Auckland founded

    Stats at 975BC:
    pop.: 130k; Cities: 4; techs: 10; gold: 36; Gov.: Mon; wonders: Lighthouse; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 3 settler, 3 boat
    Goals: expand west, towards Hawaii and in Alaska; settle New Zealand
     
  8. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    I said,I played badly and the second big mistake is exactly with that island 21 instead of New Zealand and others one tile islands close...Because you started the spoiler before to start my game,I tried to make moves with the first settler like you,but I don't know why is maked late.And Major said,he can use the game and editor simultaneously,have Classic,very good thing,I 'forgot' to verify the map frequently..
    About 'I am glad,etc',stay 'calm' Ali,or you think I will have a big score than you ???? :)).
    I'm 'expert' in deity MGE maps size XL,not in this kind of maps,and in GOTM with WW II was an accident,I played more times that map and with Axis was the preference,is easy.But that trick of Prof.Garfield with city in coal mine to take Athens first turn don't saw :))
    Good luck all !
     
  9. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    @Major: Do you have the CPU fix patch for both Civ2 and Civ2Map? (Does it work on the latter?)

    Also won't submit for this GOTM. EC unfeasible and not in a mood for landing.
     
  10. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    I have in PC a link with more torrents with GOG site games,good old games,and I found a small version of Civ II,is different,have Civilopedia columns,but can't see high council.Is Vanilla I think,beautiful !!!! :).And I can open the editor when play the game.If you want can send you the link or the game archived.
     
  11. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    What makes you say the setting is not good for landing? (I am playing for landing.)
    I was about to do that as well when I stopped myself and decided to keep the forest. With fruit and fish, food is plenty but shields are not. I will probably keep it that way till late in the game. Along the same line, I have so far turned more jungles (in nearby islands) into forest than into grassland.
    My settler was charged too and on island 35 I immediately turned the middle jungle tile into grassland.
    Why did you not settle the closer island 38 first? And what took you so long to settle your third island?
    Why? Would it not be more beneficial to settler nearby lands first before distant ones. Both Philippines and Hawaii are a lot closer than Alaska. And why are you ignoring all the little islands close by?

    Why do you think EC is unfeasible? Major, obviously, disagrees with you too.
     
  12. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    I tried a CPU usage patch once, but it did not have any affect as far as I can tell.

    I was not saying it wouldn't be good, I said it isn't great! ;) No great SSC-site nearby, no railroad-network for the core cities, so you need a complicated shipchain-network instead to link your cities...
    IIRC, both settlers were pre-charged to improve terrain. There was nothing to improve on island 38, so I shipped them over to 35, where both cleared terrain first, one the forest, the other the jungle. I should have left the forest and have both clearing the jungle though.
    I wanted to expand as far and fast as possible, with more focus on far than fast. So I am trying to cover the distance first and fill in the gaps later.
    I don't know about early, that will probably be difficult.
     
  13. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    +0020 Bridge Building -> Math. Beads from Kaupang to Chinese Nanking for 368 establishes the first trade route. Sigtuna founded on island 36.
    +0060 8 barbarian horsemen from hut surround my none crusader and kill it the next turn.
    +0080 Math -> University.
    +0100 Sioux build Great Library.
    +0120 Odense founded on island 46. 50g from Asian hut. Silver from Uppsala to Japanese Edo for 368 again!
    +0140 University -> Sanitation.
    +0200 Sioux start work on King Richrad's. Dunedin founded as the third and last city in New Zealand. Silver from Sigtuna to Trondheim establishes the first domestic route for 194. None Legion from Asian hut.
    +0220 First barbarian ship observed in my area. Beads from Trondheim to Chinese for 400.
    +0240 Russians start work on King Richard's as well. Sanitation -> Seafaring. Salt to Canton for a mere 88.
    +0260 Aztecs develop seafaring after working on it since -400. Sanitation -> Aztec (0) -> Seafaring, maps. Turned down their offer of alliance against Sioux. Molokai founded on island 22.
    +0280 -> Chemistry. University -> Chinese -> Horseback riding. Hides to size 8 Kyoto for 376. Nomad from Himalayan hut. Feudalism from hut. Crusader from Hawaiian hut.
    +0300 Chemistry -> Theology. King Richard's built in the science city of Uppsala, currently size 8. Sioux and Russians abandon rather than switch to other wonders. Silk to Kyoto for 480.
    +0320 Hedeby founded north of Manila. Tasmania founded.
    +0340 Barbarian ship observed in 220 lands a legion near Kyoto. Theology -> Astronomy. Wine to Osaka for 496. Japanese have gone from hostile to cordial (because I delivered vans to them?). English demand 50g and declare war. Perhaps I should go after them.
    +0360 Another nomad from Himalayan hut. The earlier Himalayan nomad founds Nepal.
    +0380 Nonnebakken founded on island 37.
    +0400 Astronomy -> Economics. Domestic wine for 40. Copper to Chinese for 256. T0L2S8 to get the next tech before the next delivery.
    +0420 Sioux capture Tenochtitlan. Aztec civilization destroyed. Sioux acquire code of Laws and Polytheism despite the fact that Aztecs had neither and restarts are off. As if a restart was created and then destroyed. Chivalry from Asian hut. This delays the next tech by a turn. T1L2S7
    +0440 English develop Astronomy; Sioux get it from the Library and immediately start Copernicus. I have 5 food vans ready, but I was planning to build Shakespeare first. T2L2S6
    +0460 Economics -> Theory of Gravity. Spice from Uppsala to Chinese Nanking establishes the second route of the science city for 544. T4L3S3 for a mini celebration.
    +0480 3 cities celebrate. Salt to London for 112.
    +0500 English have nearly completed Great Wall. I have several crusaders approaching but I probably have to scrap my invasion plan now. Navigation from Himalayan hut. T6L3S1 to speed up caravan production for wonder race.

    Status at +500
    Population: 2M; Cities: 24; Techs: 37; Government: Republic
    Gold: 19; Cost: 16; Trade routes: 4D10F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco, Hanging Gardens, Colossus, King Richard's
    Units: 11 settlers (2 None), 4 Warriors, 1 None Legion, 4 crusaders, 9 Triremes, 2 diplomats, 7 vans
    Goals: Rapid food van production for the wonder race, further expansion in Asia, south east Asian archipelago, and Hawaii. Hut hunting in Asia, more trade routes, Shakespeare, Copernicus, Michelangelo, Magellan, Leo, Bach
    Foot print: 1 on each of 1 (Asia), 17, 19-24, 32, 35-38, 42, 45-48, 50; 2 on 18 (Philippines), 3 on 49 (New Zealand)
    Notes: Conquest of English is my number one preoccupation. One option is to conquer the capital that is building the Great Wall. I need overwhelming force and 4 regular crusaders are not going to be enough. Thankfully they have nothing stronger than a Phalanx. The other option is to make the Great Wall obsolete. This is probably more practical given how far behind I am in the wonder race. Aztecs have been working on invention since -25 and if it was not because of the Great Library, they would have achieved it by now. As soon as they do, assuming I can trade for it, I only need Gunpowder and Metallurgy to make the Great Wall obsolete.
    Russian: 5 cities, 16 techs; war with Chinese
    Japanese: 3 cities, 20 techs
    Aztec: 1 cities, 8 techs; war with Sioux
    Chinese: 5 cities, 15 techs; Pyramids; war with Russians
    English: 5 cities, 12 techs;
    Sioux: 7 cities, 19 techs; Great Library; war with Aztecs
     
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Once again I opted to build King Richard's. It was a hard decision and I am still not certain if it was the right decision.

    I got Engineering through tech trade with my key civ in -75. At the time I had all the ancient wonders I wanted and Marco. My top priority for vans was deliveries since I had no trade routes. I was in no hurry for the next wonder since none of the ones I could build were needed urgently:
    - Michelangelo because at King level my cities were fine with Hanging Gardens and could not grow without seafaring and harbors. I did not have seafaring and no funds to make harbors with.
    - Shakespeare because my science city was already size 8 and could only get to size 9 before running out of food.
    - King Richard's because the vans would pay off more in deliveries and I rather save the food vans for Shakespeare or in case I have to snatch something quickly.

    Then in +200 Sioux started work on King Richard's. 2 turns later Russians joined them. Neither had the techs to switch to any other wonder I wanted. Feeling that my other wonders are safe I decided to snatch King Richard's while I can and did so in +300. Both Sioux and Russians abandoned.

    This did not quite work as expected. English developed Astronomy in +440 and Sioux got it from the Great Library. They immediately started on Copernicus at a time that I was ready to build Shakespeare. Not wanting to lose Copernicus I built that and delayed Shakespeare. This is at a time that I have reduced scientific research to 10% because I need money to build.

    I am wondering if I would have been better off ignoring King Richard's and use those vans to build Shakespeare when I was ready for it.
     
  15. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    I'm honestly not sure if Shakespeare itself is worth it, IMO. If you get Mikes, a cheap colosseum and a few extra elvises can usually make do. Only good if you plan on doing war as a Democracy, but it usually doesn't happen largescale in our games (+shake city in a small island super unpractical)

    KRC isn't superoptimal, but I honestly doubt Shakes is worthwhile at all. Never build it anymore. (Never have the time.)
     
  16. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    Until 1 AD:

    -950 Aleut City founded, will build a warrior there to go (hut-)hunting in Alaska
    -875 Lit.->Masonry (I think we will need pyramids someday, science is cut short though to have more gold for rbs)
    -800 2 pre-charged settlers dropped on island 37, will take down the jungle there
    -750 Nomads in Alaska! Sweet!
    -725 Viborg founded on island 37
    -675 Wellington, Molukka, Kauai founded; Legion from Hawaiian hut
    -650 Huslia founded; 50g from hut
    -625 Horse from 2nd Hawaiian hut, was hoping for gold but...Might we be able to conquer an Aztec city with Legion and horse??? At least those two will be shipped east
    -550 50g from hut
    (English settler lands next to Molukka! We see no other choice than to pay 50g tribute...Sign peace, gamble on tech exchange and get IW, other choice was WC)
    -500 Pop hut in America, hoping for Advanced tribe, but we get 4 barb horses!

    Stats at 500BC:
    pop.: 360k; Cities: 10; techs: 13; gold: 10; Gov.: Mon; wonders: Lighthouse; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 4 settler, 2 warrior, 1 legion, 1 horse, 4 boat
    Goals: expand, build Pyramids and Marco Polo

    (Our legion gets killed by barbs, so much for conquering Aztecs)
    -475 hail English, they offer Republic! We take it and demand retreat, they comply; Horse from Alaskan hut
    -425 We spot a barb trireme between Homeland and Hawaii...; Kill a barb horse and discover Slim buttes instead of a hut, sign peace with Sioux, they obviously don't have any techs for us, exchange maps, wow, they are about to conquer Aztecs
    -400 Alaganik founded
    -375 50g from hut, nomads from hut; Yukon Springs, Skara(island 48) founded
    -325 Philo->HBR->Mono;
    -250 Dunedin founded
    -225 Honolulu, New Aleut, Yakutat founded, riot factor kicks in
    -200 Saigon founded
    -175 Pyramids built
    -125 MPE built; Chariot from hut; Deering founded; Hail Japan, peace, get Poly, exchange maps; sign peace with Russia, get maps; peace with China, maps; get English map
    -100 Researching Mono
    (English dip lands in New Zealand, we gift a tech)
    -75 Davao, Lanai founded
    +1 Horse + 50g from huts; About to found a city on Vancouver Island, now we see a barb legion there, better not

    Stats at 1AD:
    pop.: 900k; Cities: 21; techs: 17; gold: 60; Gov.: Mon; wonders: Pyr, LH, MPE; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 6 settler, 15 warrior, 1 chariot, 4 horse, 6 boat, 2 van
    Goals: expand some more, build Michelangelo and Sun Tzu, start conquering


    Expansion north, east and south was ok I think, west was a little poor, especially since that is where most of the conquest goals are. And maybe I could have been a little closer to my next wonders than I am, but gold is always short. Not sure if a period of republic is worth it, no more martial law and units to support for cities with few shield output vs some more trade arrows...
     
  17. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Romania
    Where find here a calculator for number of turns for each difficulty ?
    Need to know if is good to launch now or to increase citizens.
     
  18. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Germany
  19. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Thanks Major.Sorry for the comment about the end of 180.
     
  20. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
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    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
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    I have other question.I was happy for existence of first version of Civ II launched in feb 1996 in PC,but this don't have coordinates:)),is version 1.00.I saw in Apolython some discussions,but not solutions.Is a patch for coordinates,I want to keep diplomacy of Classic,I run attitude.exe when play,but I don't know if have effect?
     

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