Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
I'm not a very proficient 20k player, didn't think to check that. I also didn't prioritize population at the time, but had the workers mine instead. I'll take a look.
[PTW] GOTM 185 Scandinavia Regent -- Discussion and Spoilers
- Thread starter Più Freddo
- Start date
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
@Green Bear: You were right, of course, I reached 12 pop in 550 BC. I erased the last lines in the table above. Sorry about that.
I reached the Forbidden Palace some time between 1000 BC and 50 AD. Probably towards the earlier part of that but no idea when exactly so I'll only report on up to 1000 BC. I'm not used to paying attention to that "The people want to build the Forbidden Palace" pop-up, I'm still used to the days when the end of the Ancient Times was the first spoiler.
I decided to settle in place because what could possibly be better? I had good luck popping Warriors from huts, and realized that Egypt seemed to be shy around my units; they had a Settler out around 2600 BC, but retreated it when my Warrior approached. As of 2310 BC, they still had only one city, so I decided to try to box them in, fortifying my two conscript Warriors to block off their expansion towards me. This meant playing more militaristic and less expansionistic than I'd planned, but there were no signs of any other civilizations; if it was just us and Egypt, playing hardball would pay off.
I prioritized finding horses and iron in my research; Egypt built two cities about the same time in the first part of the 1000s (millenium) BC. One was right by both iron and horses, including the only source of Horse I knew of. I decided to play aggressive, declared war, and razed this city. But by 1575 BC, I was also having some barbarian problems southeast of my home area, with most of my forces west against Egypt. Ultimately, the war definitely slowed Egypt down, but was slowing my expansion down too, and I decided to make peace and let Egypt die another day.
In 1000 BC, we had five cities (and a Settler ready to found a sixth), Egypt had four, and newly-discovered Rome eight, with the highest score as well. Egypt had re-settled the iron horse city, and we decided to block their expansion east at the bottleneck rather than fight them again; we were more focused on building a road to furs.
We also had built the Colossus in our capital (named Oslo) in 1375 BC. Iron is secured, tons ofwine mead is soon to be secured, and we don't have horses but what sort of Viking rides a horse anyway? I'm definitely enjoying having an ample amount of resources, and no obvious gotchas on the lower difficulty for the second time in a row. Two-front war is a risk, to be sure, and we can see juuuust far enough east to know that it could be Legions on one side and War Chariots on another, but so far Rome and Egypt don't know they exist so the risks seem quite manageable 
.
I decided to settle in place because what could possibly be better? I had good luck popping Warriors from huts, and realized that Egypt seemed to be shy around my units; they had a Settler out around 2600 BC, but retreated it when my Warrior approached. As of 2310 BC, they still had only one city, so I decided to try to box them in, fortifying my two conscript Warriors to block off their expansion towards me. This meant playing more militaristic and less expansionistic than I'd planned, but there were no signs of any other civilizations; if it was just us and Egypt, playing hardball would pay off.
I prioritized finding horses and iron in my research; Egypt built two cities about the same time in the first part of the 1000s (millenium) BC. One was right by both iron and horses, including the only source of Horse I knew of. I decided to play aggressive, declared war, and razed this city. But by 1575 BC, I was also having some barbarian problems southeast of my home area, with most of my forces west against Egypt. Ultimately, the war definitely slowed Egypt down, but was slowing my expansion down too, and I decided to make peace and let Egypt die another day.
In 1000 BC, we had five cities (and a Settler ready to found a sixth), Egypt had four, and newly-discovered Rome eight, with the highest score as well. Egypt had re-settled the iron horse city, and we decided to block their expansion east at the bottleneck rather than fight them again; we were more focused on building a road to furs.
We also had built the Colossus in our capital (named Oslo) in 1375 BC. Iron is secured, tons of
.
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
To prevent confusion at home and abroad I will submit my writeup at the final spoiler deadline. It is all prepared.
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Spoiler Limit: Middle Ages
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching the Middle Ages. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching the Middle Ages. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
brasilbear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 51
Finally got to play. I set up a practice game with the same start to see if moving the capital would make a difference. At the level I play, it really didn't in terms of speed. (It did put my 20,000k city in a position to use the palace as a prebuild, which might come into play later than I played the practice game.) But ultimately I decided to start the real game by settling in place.
By 410 BC I was ready to build the FP. As I want to slowly conquer my landmass to leader-fish, I'll use a leader to build in in an optimal position for an extended core. This should make up for having only 1/2 rings around my capital. Also didn't settle at the pre-detemined sites for evenly placed rings (thats still the optional play in PtW I believe.)
Barbs cut into my early production at least 3-4 times before I was able to expand far enough to get rid of them.
Stats at 410 BC:
8 cities (7 native, 1 conquered)
23 citizens
missing 66 techs
entered MON 650 BC
Egypt just declared war over contact with Rome, so I shifted from worker/settler production to archer production. As soon as possible, I'll switch to IW. I'll do what it takes to stay on Rome's good side as I don't want to fight legions with arrows.
By 410 BC I was ready to build the FP. As I want to slowly conquer my landmass to leader-fish, I'll use a leader to build in in an optimal position for an extended core. This should make up for having only 1/2 rings around my capital. Also didn't settle at the pre-detemined sites for evenly placed rings (thats still the optional play in PtW I believe.)
Barbs cut into my early production at least 3-4 times before I was able to expand far enough to get rid of them.
Stats at 410 BC:
8 cities (7 native, 1 conquered)
23 citizens
missing 66 techs
entered MON 650 BC
Egypt just declared war over contact with Rome, so I shifted from worker/settler production to archer production. As soon as possible, I'll switch to IW. I'll do what it takes to stay on Rome's good side as I don't want to fight legions with arrows.
Last edited:
Zinad
Chieftain
After playing cotm 157, I try another 20K game.
Settled in place and produced one scout and one settler, then only cultural buildings.
Reached the middle ages around 110 AD.
Trondheim stats at 170 AD:
Population 12 (reached around 600 BC)
Monotheism in 7 turns
Palace 4000 BC
Temple 2150 BC
Colossus 1375 BC
Library 1200 BC
Oracle 650 BC
Great Library 90 BC
Great Lighthouse will finish in 3 turns
Settled in place and produced one scout and one settler, then only cultural buildings.
Reached the middle ages around 110 AD.
Trondheim stats at 170 AD:
Population 12 (reached around 600 BC)
Monotheism in 7 turns
Palace 4000 BC
Temple 2150 BC
Colossus 1375 BC
Library 1200 BC
Oracle 650 BC
Great Library 90 BC
Great Lighthouse will finish in 3 turns
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
Spoiler Limit: Industrial Times or Game Submitted
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching Industrial Time or having submitted the game. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
Spoilers are allowed covering the game up until reaching Industrial Time or having submitted the game. The results of getting and trading bonus technologies at this stage are a permissible topic as well.
No spoiler information from after fulfilling the spoiler requirement is allowed!
![[ptw]](/images/smilies/ptw.gif "PTW Icon [ptw]")
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brasilbear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2008
- Messages
- 51
Lit area in some nations cultural boundary or lit area outside a boundary? My game gives three types of territory. (1) Fog of war --black, (2) Fog cleared but land not claimed or under my unit's direct observation--dim, (3) within cultural boundaries or under direct observation of one of my units--normal lighting.
Barb camps can spawn under various conditions in (1) and (2). I've never seen a bard camp inside a cultural boundary. I can't remember if its 1 or 2 hexes outside your cultural boundary are also normal lighting.
Barb camps can spawn under various conditions in (1) and (2). I've never seen a bard camp inside a cultural boundary. I can't remember if its 1 or 2 hexes outside your cultural boundary are also normal lighting.
Had a scout fortified on a mountain and the barb camp appeared 2 tiles from the scout in a cleared area, but not near a border. I had thought they wouldn't appear in a lit area.
Green Bear
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2020
- Messages
- 37
Had a scout fortified on a mountain and the barb camp appeared 2 tiles from the scout in a cleared area, but not near a border. I had thought they wouldn't appear in a lit area.
Barbs do not appear near a military unit. But scouts aren't military units, because they do not have military strength. Barb camps can also appear near settlers or workers.
Received Forbidden Palace notice somewhere around 900-950bc and at that time I had 11 cities with one claiming the horses to the far south. Have 3 settlers on the move with one of them moving towards the iron to the west.
Am 29 turns from Republic (really miss the slingshot you get with Conquests).
Had a brief war with Egypt in 2590bc when my warrior came across Memphis and with no one guarding. Took the opportunity to knock them down a notch and destroyed it.
Somewhere around 1000bc Rome came with several warriors and declared. Killed all 3 warriors, without losses myself, and never saw another Roman unit. They must have been busy with barbs.
Am 29 turns from Republic (really miss the slingshot you get with Conquests
).Had a brief war with Egypt in 2590bc when my warrior came across Memphis and with no one guarding. Took the opportunity to knock them down a notch and destroyed it.
Somewhere around 1000bc Rome came with several warriors and declared. Killed all 3 warriors, without losses myself, and never saw another Roman unit. They must have been busy with barbs.
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
This was the result of my 20k endeavor. In 1752 AD, after my playing 341 turns, my cultural score in the capital had reached 20012 points. In the table can be seen the contribution of each Improvement and Wonder to the eventual cultural score. My highest culture-per-turn value was 142.
year|building|rank|culture|turns
3950 BC|Palace|15|656|11
2710 BC|Temple|6|1202|20
1625 BC|The Colossus|2|1581|27
1450 BC|Library|4|1533|26
775 BC|The Great Library|1|2718|46
650 BC|Colosseum|10|874|15
370 BC|The Hanging Gardens|3|1580|27
50 BC|The Great Lighthouse|13|700|12
150 AD|Cathedral|8|960|16
460 AD|Sistine Chapel|5|1452|25
520 AD|University|9|896|15
680 AD|Copernicus' Obervatory|12|704|12
850 AD|J.S.Bach's Cathedral|11|852|15
990 AD|Shakespeare's Theater|7|1024|17
1140 AD|Newton's University|14|678|12
1150 AD|Magellan's Voyage|18|336|6
1220 AD|Heroic Epic|16|420|7
1270 AD|Universal Suffrage|17|392|7
1310 AD|Smith's Trading Company|19|270|5
1350 AD|Theory of Evolution|20|246|4
1375 AD|Hoover Dam|21|154|3
1400 AD|Military Academy|27|72|1
1420 AD|Wall Street|22|136|2
1445 AD|Intelligence Agency|28|63|1
1475 AD|Battlefield Medicine|29|57|1
1515 AD|Research Lab|24|98|2
1545 AD|Apollo Program|26|86|1
1595 AD|The Internet|23|132|2
1645 AD|United Nations|25|92|2
1695 AD|Longevity|30|39|1
1745 AD|Cure for Cancer|31|9|0
3950 BC|Palace|15|656|11
2710 BC|Temple|6|1202|20
1625 BC|The Colossus|2|1581|27
1450 BC|Library|4|1533|26
775 BC|The Great Library|1|2718|46
650 BC|Colosseum|10|874|15
370 BC|The Hanging Gardens|3|1580|27
50 BC|The Great Lighthouse|13|700|12
150 AD|Cathedral|8|960|16
460 AD|Sistine Chapel|5|1452|25
520 AD|University|9|896|15
680 AD|Copernicus' Obervatory|12|704|12
850 AD|J.S.Bach's Cathedral|11|852|15
990 AD|Shakespeare's Theater|7|1024|17
1140 AD|Newton's University|14|678|12
1150 AD|Magellan's Voyage|18|336|6
1220 AD|Heroic Epic|16|420|7
1270 AD|Universal Suffrage|17|392|7
1310 AD|Smith's Trading Company|19|270|5
1350 AD|Theory of Evolution|20|246|4
1375 AD|Hoover Dam|21|154|3
1400 AD|Military Academy|27|72|1
1420 AD|Wall Street|22|136|2
1445 AD|Intelligence Agency|28|63|1
1475 AD|Battlefield Medicine|29|57|1
1515 AD|Research Lab|24|98|2
1545 AD|Apollo Program|26|86|1
1595 AD|The Internet|23|132|2
1645 AD|United Nations|25|92|2
1695 AD|Longevity|30|39|1
1745 AD|Cure for Cancer|31|9|0
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
It took some time before I could take on the neighbours militarily. As I conquered the home Continent, I kept France a friendly trading partner. I also kept peace with the two Scientifics Germany and Russion on their little island trading for their Technologies and Gems. I then invaded the southern part of the other large Continent, partly using Berserkers from boats. Going around France was reasonable, since they provided us with their only Luxury and plenty of money and even some Technologies. Eventually, I crushed France in one fell swoop, as she had been foolish enough to lay railways, and reached the Domination Limit. The end game of 20k is extremely boring, just balancing on the Limit while trying to optimize score. I built military Units in the core, which I then disbanded into Aqueducts, Temples, Harbors and Marketplaces, even a Hospital.
templar_x
usually walks his talks
Più Freddo
From space, earth is blue
That's a good question. It was several years since I created this spreadsheet. I would assume that it is simply (culture from improvement)*(number of turns in game)/(total culture in city at end), so sort of how many turns later the end would have come without it using a simple linear extrapolation.
So, I'm in 1778, and have conquered my continent, nearly all of the second continent, and am starting on the third landmass (with Germany and Russia), thinking, "man, I ought to be about 2 tiles from domination". Fired up CAII, and it says there are 1341 land tiles, with a domination limit of 1315; I have 1122 domination tiles (roughly 85% of the domination limit), and 83% of the world's citizenry.
Is something unusual going on with the domination limit? I see @Più Freddo mentioned reaching presumably just shy of the domination limit, and then going for 20K. In Conquests I'd just check the F8 status, but since it's PTW, CAII is the only option... and I'm wondering if its reporting is off, or if the limit's 98%.
-----
Aside from that, it's been a good game. After my early wars, I stayed peaceful for awhile, building too many forts to brush back an expected strong Roman attack after war started, only to find they were weaker than expected. Swords and MDI fought them on land while a north coast based Berserker force provided crucial marine strength to win the war, spanning about 1000 AD to 1230 AD. Berserkers featured prominently against Egypt, as well, which was an easier conflict, spanning 1340 to 1385.
At that point, we were in the late Middle Ages and backwards, so I decided to bring the AI into wars against each other to slow their Republics down to my Monarchy pace. I declared war on France and England, bringing in the Celts against France and Spain against England, and started attacking France with Berserks in a raider style. We'd take a city, and before they could launch much of a counter-attack, would load back up onto a boat. Soon, we'd start leaving some Pikemen in the cities as they were available. This worked effectively to whittle down France's strength, and by about 1500 we'd taken most of their land. But they got Riflemen in Paris and Marseilles, which proved a tough nut for our Berserkers to crack, so we spent about a century building up strength and sieging the two cities, finally conquering France in 1620.
By this point Arabia had been brought in to wars as well, against both France and the Celts. I'd also realized that Spain was beating up England too much, and switched sides to propping up England, sending coals to Newcastle and various spare luxuries to Canterbury in an effort to keep the English economy afloat until meaningful numbers of Viking troops could arrive.
The AI wars had also had their intended effect, and in the span of 250 years, I had gone from backwards to advanced, being the only industrialized nation. This lead to a great increase in productivity, and what was at first a small amount of troops crossing the Arabian desert to fight Spain quickly swelled. By 1700 we'd cut a line across Spain that protected England from most of their troops, and by 1754 Spain was effectively toast, and we'd attacked Arabia as well, as they had grown too powerful by conquering all but one Celtic city.
Now, in 1778, we have conquered Arabia, taken the last Celtic city to avoid flips, have taken all original Spanish cities, and have invaded Russia, with Germany also at war with us though a lower priority as the only civ still in the Middle Ages. England our one ally, and at their own suggestion has a mutual protection pact with us. We've completed Hoover Dam and will have Combustion in two turns. Probably going to go for Domination or Conquest.
Is something unusual going on with the domination limit? I see @Più Freddo mentioned reaching presumably just shy of the domination limit, and then going for 20K. In Conquests I'd just check the F8 status, but since it's PTW, CAII is the only option... and I'm wondering if its reporting is off, or if the limit's 98%.
-----
Aside from that, it's been a good game. After my early wars, I stayed peaceful for awhile, building too many forts to brush back an expected strong Roman attack after war started, only to find they were weaker than expected. Swords and MDI fought them on land while a north coast based Berserker force provided crucial marine strength to win the war, spanning about 1000 AD to 1230 AD. Berserkers featured prominently against Egypt, as well, which was an easier conflict, spanning 1340 to 1385.
At that point, we were in the late Middle Ages and backwards, so I decided to bring the AI into wars against each other to slow their Republics down to my Monarchy pace. I declared war on France and England, bringing in the Celts against France and Spain against England, and started attacking France with Berserks in a raider style. We'd take a city, and before they could launch much of a counter-attack, would load back up onto a boat. Soon, we'd start leaving some Pikemen in the cities as they were available. This worked effectively to whittle down France's strength, and by about 1500 we'd taken most of their land. But they got Riflemen in Paris and Marseilles, which proved a tough nut for our Berserkers to crack, so we spent about a century building up strength and sieging the two cities, finally conquering France in 1620.
By this point Arabia had been brought in to wars as well, against both France and the Celts. I'd also realized that Spain was beating up England too much, and switched sides to propping up England, sending coals to Newcastle and various spare luxuries to Canterbury in an effort to keep the English economy afloat until meaningful numbers of Viking troops could arrive.
The AI wars had also had their intended effect, and in the span of 250 years, I had gone from backwards to advanced, being the only industrialized nation. This lead to a great increase in productivity, and what was at first a small amount of troops crossing the Arabian desert to fight Spain quickly swelled. By 1700 we'd cut a line across Spain that protected England from most of their troops, and by 1754 Spain was effectively toast, and we'd attacked Arabia as well, as they had grown too powerful by conquering all but one Celtic city.
Now, in 1778, we have conquered Arabia, taken the last Celtic city to avoid flips, have taken all original Spanish cities, and have invaded Russia, with Germany also at war with us though a lower priority as the only civ still in the Middle Ages. England our one ally, and at their own suggestion has a mutual protection pact with us. We've completed Hoover Dam and will have Combustion in two turns. Probably going to go for Domination or Conquest.
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