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Gotm 185 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Major Advantage, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Prince

    Mar 21, 2011
    Game # 184 went quicker than I had anticipated, so I got to start this game a few days ago. Things are looking good so far.
    Starting with wo settlers is a bonus we rarely get, so it might be a good choice to keep one of them as none settler. I went for the straight opposite though, one settler went for the 3-special-site Ali mentioned in the game thread, the other for the visible river and since both found nice city sites, they settled, generating 3 beakers to begin with for early science.

    -4000 Moving west and south
    -3900 Babylon founded @85,27, Ur founded @ 89,31; both cities producing warriors
    -3850 Research CoL
    -3700 Laws->Burial;
    -3600 Horse from hut (supported)
    -3500 Burial->Bronze
    -3350 HBR from hut
    -3200 2*50g from huts
    -2950 Barb horse from hut
    (Barbs kill our horse)
    -2850 Bronze->Monarchy
    -2800 Nineveh founded
    -2700 Ashur founded @78,28, possible SSC with lots of rivers, no trade speacial though; Nomads from hut
    -2550 50g +Advb. tribe (Ellipi @66,38)
    -2400 Mon.(1 turn too late)->Currency
    -2250 Akkad founded
    -2150 Uruk founded
    -2100 Args, forgot to revolt 4 turns ago! Do it now
    -2050 Become monarchy
    -2000 Curr.->Trade

    Stats at 2000BC:
    pop.: 150k; Cities: 7; techs: 7; gold: 188; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 settler, 4 warrior, 1 horse
    Goals: Expand, build MPE

    (Barb trireme shows up south of Niniveh)
    -1950 Switch production to horse
    (Two archers disembark)
    -1900 Horse kills 1st archer
    -1850 2nd archer killed (barely)
    -1800 Trade->Mapmaking;
    -1700 Eridu founded
    -1550 Another trireme south of Niniveh??? WTF?)
    -1500 Kill barb archer
    -1450 Kill other barb archer
    -1350 Samarra founded
    -1300 MPE built; Hail Celts, get Writing and mapmaking, no map exchange though; Hail Indians, they demand 50g tribute, denied, war; peace with Carths, get their map, same with Spain, same with America, everyone is on cont.1 so far... Same with Germans, they are offshore
    (Indians capture Washington)
    -1250 Researching Literacy
    -1100 Lit.->Wheel;
    (Indians take New York)
    -1050 Land on cont. 3
    -975 Get celtic map; spend some gold and hail Indians, sign cease fire, they want us to declare war on America in exchange for peace, ok, they will probably be wiped out soon anyway, get Myst + pottery, exchange maps

    Stats at 950BC:
    pop.: 330k; Cities: 9; techs: 14; gold: 35; Gov.: Mon; wonders: MPE; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 6 settler, 9 warrior, 2 horse, 1 boat, 3 van
    Goals: Expand (also overseas to the southern islands), build up SSC, eventually Michelangelo (Indians are working on Poly)
  2. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Man, this game suucks. I had an excellent setup, which was ruined by the dumbest oversight possible. Currently at 300 AD, and not going too terribly, but I would have had a clear advantage otherwise... oh well. Log coming when I'll have covered more ground.
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    I started playing and like Major sent my settlers in different directions. In my case I was after huts and hoping for units. As is usual for me, units are rare and techs plentiful. After a couple of techs in a row I decided no more delay is warranted and settled with one settler at the 3 special site south of the starting location. The other settler kept hut hunting and while it found few units, it did discover some advanced tribes.

    Date Notes

    -4000 One settler moves south, the other west.
    -3850 Bronze Working from hut. This is bad but it could have been worse. The 3 special site has ocean access after all.
    -3800 Whale revealed.
    -3750 Third special is also buffalo.
    -3650 Damn my hut luck. Second hut gives horseback riding. Babylon founded at 89,31.
    -3600 -> Ceremonial Burial.
    -3500 Advanced tribe founds Ur at 74,34. I guess I am not playing OCC.
    -3200 Pottery from hut. 3/4 huts have been techs so far.
    -3150 Horseman from hut.
    -3050 Ceremonial Burial from hut. At least this one I needed. Advanced tribe founds Nineveh at 66,38.
    -3000 -> Code of Laws.

    Status at -3000
    Population: 0.05M; Cities: 3; Techs: 5; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 10; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 1 None settler, 2 warriors, 1 horseman
    Goals: Exploration, Expansion, Monarchy, trade
    Celt: no contact
    German: no contact
    Spanish: no contact
    American: no contact
    Carthaginian: no contact
    Indian: no contact

    -2850 None settler founds Ashur at 4-special site 63,33.
    -2800 Warrior disbanded to reduce Babylon's support cost.
    -2700 Code of Laws -> Currency.
    -2650 Ur disbanded into settler to be reestablished 1 tile away. Ellipi founded.
    -2600 Ur refounded.
    -2050 Currency -> Monarchy. Chariot from hut.

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.13M; Cities: 5; Techs: 7; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 11; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 1 settler, 3 warriors, 1 horseman, 1 chariot
    Goals: Exploration, Expansion, Monarchy, trade
    Celt: no contact
    German: no contact
    Spanish: no contact
    American: no contact
    Carthaginian: no contact
    Indian: no contact

    -1950 Akkad founded.
    -1850 Horseman accidentally runs into barbarians.
    -1800 Barbarian archer kill my horseman.
    -1700 Uruk founded.
    -1600 Eridu founded.
    -1550 Monarchy -> Trade.
    -1500 Barbarian archer near Babylon. Revolution started.
    -1450 Barbarian archer kills my warrior. Monarchy established. T3L0S7. Samarra founded.
    -1400 Chariot kills barbarian archer and its leader.
    -1300 Germans start Hanging Gardens. Lagash founded.
    -1150 Trade -> Mapmaking. T7L0S3
    -1100 Nippur founded.
    -1050 Shuruppak founded.
    -1000 CaravanSaray and Zariqum founded.

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.24M; Cities: 14; Techs: 9; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 17; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 3 settlers, 2 warriors, 1 Phalanx, 1 chariot
    Goals: Exploration, Expansion, Hanging Gardens, Marco
    Celt: no contact
    German: no contact
    Spanish: no contact
    American: no contact
    Carthaginian: no contact
    Indian: no contact

    -0925 Barbarian archers land next to defenseless CaravanSaray. Warrior runs into Celtic horseman. Refused to give them Trade. Accepted their peace offer. My power is already supreme.
    -0900 Barbarians capture size 1 CaravanSaray. I am grateful it was not razed.
    -0850 Barbarian kills my exploring warrior and is killed by Celtic horseman. Horseman kills barbarian archer approaching Ellipi.
    -0825 Sippar founded.
    -0800 Mapmaking -> Mysticism.
    -0775 Izibia and Larsa founded.
    -0700 Celt (2) -> 50g
    -0650 Nimrud founded.
    -0625 Celt (2) -> 50g
    -0600 Germans build Hanging Gardens. I was too far behind to catch up. Ashur switches to Colossus.
    -0575 Zamua founded.
    -0525 2 barbarian archers land near Babylon. Mysticism -> Writing. Khorsabad founded.
    -0500 Barbarian archer killed.

    Status at -0500
    Population: 0.52M; Cities: 19; Techs: 11; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 151; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 7 settlers, 15 warriors, 1 Phalanx, 1 horseman, 1 chariot, 1 Trireme, 3 vans
    Goals: Exploration, Expansion, Colossus (next turn), Marco (next turn)
    Celt: no contact
    German: no contact
    Spanish: no contact
    American: no contact
    Carthaginian: no contact
    Indian: no contact
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    And what would that be?
  5. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    You're gonna laugh. Or facepalm. Probably both. But first, I'll let you guess what happened.

    GOTM185. Not much to say, otherwise than 7-player game. Restarts ON. 2 Settlers+Emperor, so will most likely get a quick start. One of the settlers will build on the river square for the free road and added mobility. Other than that, nothing to note, really.
    Surprised you gambled with huts. I never do that unless they're on sight or I want to do size1 trick.

    4000 BC: Move one settler west, reveals a plain grassland square. Excellent, I can use it for a city and still have the shielded square available. Babylone built at starting location. Will require a lot of irrigation later on, but time is key.

    3950 BC: > CoL. (1)

    3900 BC: Ur built on river.

    3750 BC: CoL > CB. (2)

    3600 BC: Hut in Ur’s vicinity: BW. (0) More plains nearby… not good for EL.

    3300 BC: Good network of river near Ur, but… all plains…

    3200 BC: CB > Mon. (1) Techrate 16 turns.

    3150 BC: Babylon settlers.

    3050 BC: Nineve built 2 squares south of Babylone. Standard ICS so far.

    3000 BC: Ur Settlers. Hut: Horseman. I was hoping for a tribe, since it was near a whale and the big river setup: but that’s not that bad either.

    2900 BC: Hut: AT of Ashur east of Babylone. Techrate now 10 turns, queued for 2650BC Monarchy.

    2850 BC: Hut: Horseback Riding. Well, that’s not happening anymore… Need to make some adjustments to workers and hope that the next city next turn fixes things.

    2800 BC: Ellipi built. Discover Celtic city of Cardiff to the east! Built on a river, so not an immediate priority. Eventually, but no. I’ve got land to expand on. Techrate 7 turns.

    2700 BC: I’ve made it.

    2650 BC: Monarchy > Polytheism. Revolt to Monarchy. (0) Contact Celtics: Trade for Masonry. (1) Hut: AT of Akkad. Welp, not worth to delay that one. Still a better outcome than Barbs!

    2400 BC: Hut: Map Making. (2)

    2350 BC: Uruk built. Phasing out ICS due to lack of food squares, which will require heavy irrigation work. Cannot support many cities otherwise.

    2100 BC: Continent mass 1. Maybe I should have gone for Trade first since I could have extorted enough using Marco’s for a quick HG. I’m not used to that strategy though. And with Despotism as gov't still? Not sure if the tradeoff would be worth it at all!

    2050 BC: Hut: Archers. Poly > Currency. (0) Eridu built.

    2000 BC: Samarra built. Going for a 3-settler start on Babylon, it seems. With a delayed Trade, not the best of decisions.

    STATUS AT 2000 BC: (Beginning of 41st turn)
    Population: 150.000 Cities: 9 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 10 (researching Currency)
    Gold: 10 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 5 income, 0 cost. Production: 23MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: None built.
    Foreign relations: Peace with Celtics.

    Notes: NONE. Will get Celtic maps eventually, and plan on how to proceed then.

    1950 BC: Trade for Currency with the Celtics.

    1900 BC: > Trade. (1) Hut: NONE Elephant.

    1850 BC: Get Celtic maps. They have 3 cities, and have contact with Carthaginians south. Lagash built.

    1800 BC: Kish built.

    1600 BC: Hut: Barbarian. Gets dealt with.

    1550 BC: Nippour built.

    1550 BC: Trade > Writing. Trade for Warrior Code with Celtics. (0) Hike tax rate to 70%.

    1400 BC: Shuruppak built.

    1200 BC: Spanish initiate contact. Get maps. They are NE. Leaning towards a landing game despite the large landmass because EC with plains is not something I am used to doing.

    1100 BC: Celts: 100g. Zariqum built. I don’t even have Pottery. Better build MPE first and hope that someone has it. Hut: AT of Sippar.

    Interturn: Americans start Pyramids.

    1000 BC: Larsa built. Nimroud built. BABLYONE MPE. Germans: Trade for Pottery and Writing. (2) Maps, on different landmass south of Akkad, but might be unreachable without Lighthouse. Americans are far east of my continent, although with a round map they are closer west than east. Carths: maps, peace, 50g. Same for Indians, below Americans, get 150g from them. Update Celtic maps. They want an alliance, no thanks buddy. In my way. T3L0S7

    STATUS AT 975 BC: (Beginning of 62nd turn)
    Population: 300.000 Cities: 18 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 14 (researching Literacy)
    Gold: 188 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 12 income, 0 cost. Production: 49MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: MPE built.
    Foreign relations: Peace with all.

    Notes: Expand, build HG+Pyramids, LH+Mikes, etc... LH+routes to the Germans should be high priority, as they are the only offshore civ. Road network west would be preferred, but I will need Bridge Building for a full one. No suitable SSC site so far.

    Owtch, losing HG... that blows. I'm guessing it's time for a 20-cities style game, to control unrest..
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  6. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Prince

    Mar 21, 2011
    Spoiler :
    Did you forget to revolt and stayed in despotism? There is a log entry from 2100 BC that would indicate so... That happened in my game, but I realized that soon and only spent 4 extra turns in despo before I switched to monarchy.

    Anyway, having 18 cities this early is quite impressive.
  7. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    From my understanding of GOTM rules, you're allowed to go back and use AutoSave if you intended/planned to do something (like revolt to Mon on a given date and realize you forgot on the same turn) and plainly forget. It happens an embarassing amount of times earlygame, since it's so mindless at first. Later game, near impossible to faithfully recreate everything, so it's no use bothering.
    Note: Not allowed if you try to go for a 0-turn revolution and miscalculate!

    No, it's far worse than that. It towers above all else.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
  8. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Jokemaster, your interpretation of the rules is correct. Anytime you clearly intended and planned to do something and forgot you are allowed to go back to saves as long as you recreate everything. Miscalculations, should have/ could haves do not count.

    At -975 you are well ahead of Major and I. So whatever it is you did, could not have affected your growth much. Sometimes, I adjust the tech/tax/lux rates to play what if scenarios and then forget to put it back. Given your stats I doubt you did that.

    Spoiler :
    Jokemaster: Germans: ... Maps, on different landmass south of Akkad, but might be unreachable without Lighthouse.

    Did you neglect to black click/explore and find a route south? They are the only rival on a different continent and thus trade with them would be far more valuable.
  9. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    You're getting a lot closer, but not quite there yet. But the mistake hasn't happened yet in my log, and I did find a suitable trireme route (using a canal city) to German lands despite missing LH. It happens in the late BC years, so growth isn't really affected until the 1-800 AD period.
  10. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Well then Jokemaster, publish the rest of your logs and let see if we can guess it.
  11. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    975 BC: > Literacy.

    900 BC: Khursabad built.

    875 BC: Hindana built. Literacy > Mysticism. (0)

    850 BC: Tell Wilaya built. Umma built.

    825 BC: Nope, LH not needed! Just need a city to act as a canal. Big unrest across kingdom. HG second with big amount of cities: not good.

    775 BC: Adab built.

    750 BC: I’d like to conquer the Celts, Carths and if possible get the Spanish city of Toledo. If I can get offshore respawns, that’d be nice as well.

    Interturn: Germans start Pyramids. If they could swap to Colossus that would be lovely… but the Americans are way ahead, so that’s not happening. Unless…

    725 BC: Americans: 50g.

    675 BC: Tello built.

    Interturn: Germans develop Mysticism, right before I research it. That’s nice, game. Where did you get the idea? Oh, all the other 5345 times you screwed me over doing this? Not salty… (1)

    625 BC: Give Literacy to Americans in order to entice them in building Great Library (they ALWAYS switch), and enable the islander Germans to get Colossus unopposed.

    575 BC: Indians develop Mysticism. Now that’s just rubbing it in. Nina built. Ebla built.

    550 BC: Naples built.

    525 BC: Trade to Spanish for The Wheel. (2) Indians: 150g. Trade to Celts for IW. (0) Issos, Cunaxa built.

    500 BC. Pyramids built. Germans swap to GW. FUUUUUUUDGE. Indians swap to Colossus. Give Literacy to Indians. Cremona built. Americans seem to have abandoned. T7L0S3.

    STATUS AT 500 BC: (Beginning of 82nd turn)
    Population: 680.000 Cities: 31 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 18 (researching Philosophy)
    Gold: 90 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 21 income, 0 cost. Production: 100MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: MPE, HG, Pyr built.
    Foreign relations: Peace with all. Planning on assaulting the Celtics soon as a straight landgrab, but 3 units in capital and river is making me bearish on success odds.

    Notes: Owtch… Is spending 300s on GW worth it just to get the Germans to build Colossus instead of a continental civ? (Currently researching Seafaring) They don’t have other choices… this is going to be HIGHLY controversial, but I’m doing it. Let’s risk it for a biscuit. Delays Mikes a whole bunch, but my bet is that a Colossus city to dump undemanded vans into is going to overwhelm the negatives.

    Also, good progress on road to German ports. But I’m getting squeezed out of land to expand, so that’s going to be a slight problem in the next turns. Ill have to expand offshore north on landmass 2, but that’s not happening next turn.

    Anyone care to take a guess?
  12. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Did you or did you not lose the gardens to a rival?

    If you actually built the Great Wall in hopes of making Germans switch to Colossus, you made a big mistake. For one thing, it is always better to have Colossus yourself because you can make sure that city grows large and right before a delivery switch all workers to arrow tiles. In contrast a rival could build Colossus in a city with limited growth potential. (I remember once in a conquest game, when I did not care for Copernicus, a rival did make it. By the time I captured the city it was size 2 or 3!) Furthermore, the AI takes forever to grow its cities beyond size 8 and rarely beyond size 12. Secondly, why use 300 shields on Great Wall when 200 shields would get you the Colossus? Thirdly, you never know what they do; the AI sometimes abandons for no good reason. Fourthly, in a game with barbarian setting on raging hordes, the Colossus city could fall to barbarians. Fifthly, a rival may take the Colossus city and then it is likely so far from their capital that all the arrows go to corruption. Sixthly (apparently that is not a word; I am being flagged for spelling) you can build other wonders and infrastructure in your Colossus city to grow its potential.
  13. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    I was mostly thinking in the line of "Oh, they're the only offshore partner, so I won't have too much variety in demanded goods" and thought the 9 (would have been 13 in this game) arrow bonus was better for trade from every city than the benefits of Colossus for myself in a single one. Also didn't really felt like an SSC would have been productive since big plains require lots of time to irrigate, and SSC would have drained settler work and efforts, hampering the rest of my empire. That also factored into my decision.

    But it didn't matter anyways, since it turned out the Germans never learned BW in the first place, and couldn't build it. (If I had checked using Marco's... the real facepalm) Spanish ended up getting it instead of my offshore partner, and I wasted 300s on a useless wall on top of not having Colossus to my island trade civ. Embarassing.

    Worst part is: I could have goaded them into building Colossus from the get-go after snagging Pyramids, had they possessed the tech. Didn't even need GW. Yikes.

    EDIT: Secured the gardens in 725BCish, as 2nd wonder. I'll mention AI-held WoWs in status recaps in their own category. Otherwise, assume player-held.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Wow. That actually did cross my mind but then I thought, nah .... Facepalm indeed.
  15. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Prince

    Mar 21, 2011
    Phew, that is quite a story! :wallbash:
    I agree with Ali that it is not worth to build a 300s wonder trying to get the AI to build Colossus, even though there is a huge benefit in an offshore AI-city with Colossus, and this is exactly what happened in my game! Berlin had built it, but they never grew beyond size 8, so a large part of Colossus' potential was wasted. The germans did not even build roads in all city tiles, so I helped with that. Now that brings up the question: Is Colossus more useful in the AI's hands? Especially since we do not have a great SSC-site? I'm not sure, there was definitely a high profit in just dumping vans into Berlin...

    Log until 1 AD:
    (Indians destroy America)
    -925 Lagash founded; 50g tribute from Spain; Chinese respawn without techs new to us
    -875 Kish founded on cont. 3; 50g from hut on cont. 14
    -825 Nippur founded; Sign peace with chinese but they do not need any of our techs, so no map exchange; 25g from Carths
    -800 Wheel->Construction; HG built; Barbs on cont. 14, escape by boat; get Math + 50g from Celts
    -775 Shuruppak founded
    (Chinese Republic)
    -725 Get Republic from China, exchange maps
    -700 Pyramids built; Zariqum founded
    -675 50g from Carths
    -650 Sippar founded
    -625 Nomads on cont. 18
    (Germans about to finish Colossus...that's what we wanted to do! However, an offshore AI Colossus could be great for trading)
    -600 Izibia founded
    (Berlin builds Colossus)
    (Germans switch to Republic. This would be excellent for trading)
    -550 Construction->Engineering; Larsa founded
    (Germans Seafaring, Spanish IW)
    -525 Nimrud founded, 2 vans on their way to Germany
    -500 Zamua founded; Nomads NE of Celts
    (China astro)
    -475 Get Astro from China (not needed now but do it before they start on Copernicus)

    Stats at 475BC:
    pop.: 670k; Cities: 20; techs: 19; gold: 57; Gov.: Mon; wonders: Pyr, HG, MPE; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 7 settler, 11 warrior, 2 phalanx, 2 horse, 3 boat, 6 van
    Goals: Expand some more, Get trade going with Berlin, set up shichain there

    (India Poly)
    -450 Poly from hut (Should have contacted India before...), get Seafaring from Germany
    -425 Khorsabad founded on cont. 16
    -400 2 vans dropped off next to Berlin; Hindana founded, we run into severe happiness problems...; Legion east of Celts
    -375 1st delivery (hides to Berlin) for 378g, but now Berlin is out of hides demand), Tell Wilaya found from Nomads NE of Celts
    -350 Delivery for 240 (undemanded beads to Berlin)
    -300 demanded copper from Babylon for 410
    (Germans lose Frankfurt to Barbs)
    -275 Philo->Mono->University; Umma founded on cont. 5;
    -250 100g tribute from Carths, IW + 150g from Spain; Revolution
    -225 Michelangelo built; become republic; Uruk (86,18) will get the SSC wonders
    -200 Delivery for 466, a lot of cities are celebrating
    -175 University->Bridgebuild.; Deliveries 485, 344; Get Banking from Celts
    -150 BB->Medicine; Delivery to Berlin for 244 does not unblock silk demand... delivered anyway for 328, cancel celebrations
    -100 Med.->Economics; Copernicus built; 256
    -75 Adab founded; trigger another round of celebrations
    -50 Deliver 522, now Berlins demand for silk and gems is blocked...
    -25 Econ.->Sanitation;
    +1 Deliveries 232, 540

    Stats at 1AD:
    pop.: 3.17M; Cities: 24; techs: 30; gold: 1779; Gov.: Rep; wonders: Pyr, HG, MPE, Michelangelo, Copernicus; TR: 0D/12F
    units: 11 settler, 11 warrior, 8 phalanx, 1 legion, 2 horse, 1 catapult, 7 boat, 16 van
    Goals: Trade, Leonardo + Explosives, then expand further
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
  16. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Looks like Major's getting ahead in techs. Spent a lot of efforts into an ill-fated GW build and the conquest of the Celts (which required 2 tries!) LOTS of resources went into that. As a result, shipchain building/trade w/Germans was delayed, and Republic was established very late. In fairly typical Jokemaster fashion, I have many more cities: but that might not matter.

    STATUS AT 500 BC: (Beginning of 82nd turn)

    475 BC: Philosophy > REPUBLIC. Mono was not available… Mono next. Aaand that’s my 20 techs. Well, guess I wasn’t going to build Mikes anytime soon… GW ho! Hut: Settlers, offshore. That will be useful for the Germans.

    425 BC: Cannae5 built. Cardiff defended by 2 Phalanx+1Archer, AND BUILDING CITY WALLS. Yikes… and there’s another Archer nearby. None of my units are vets… 6Phalanx+2archer+1horse. Move into position for next turn. T7L0S3.

    Interturn: Phalanx units move outside Cardiff.

    375 BC: Spanish: 100g. Americans: 100g. Sneak attack Celts: Kill Phalanx guarding river (ellie low hp) lose an ellie killing an archer on hills, then finish him off with my archer. Lose 3 ellies weakening the Phalanxes, but MISCLICK prevents me from finishing any units off. They also had a settler inside. Nineve could be an SSC in the future, mining 2 buffalo specials=silk (post-game edit: it’s pheasant you doofus). That was a huge blow… I’ll need an extra 60s to kill the walls. Total casualties: Six units! Owtch…

    350 BC: Turin built. Ellipi hides (d) to Berlin: 120g only. Forgot to send them Republic, and city not size 3… dang!

    Interturn: Repel an archer attack from Cardiff, but another unit goes into the capital.

    325 BC: Hut: Gênes14.

    275 BC: Crête, Vérone built. Still no walls from Cardiff. Trying to get another army built up, but need vets. They most likely have them now from the previous battle, so gotta compensate.RBing Barracks and ellies is expensive.

    250 BC: Spanish: nothing. Indians: 100g. Preparations for the second attack are still underway.

    200 BC: I’ll try to attack once again in 3 turns. Salamis2 built. Hut: 50g.

    Interturn: Germans develop Seafaring. Become Republic. Hopefully they don’t switch to Oracle…

    175 BC: Hut: Lisbonne3.

    150 BC: Units in position, try 2. Attacking with 9 Ellies (5 Vets) 2 Archers (1 Vet) and 2 Dips. Still no sign of walls. Most likely up against 3 defenders, some vets.

    Interturn: Cardiff goes into unrest? Maybe some defensive units left.

    125 BC: Kill the 3 defenders in Cardiff at the cost of 2 Vet Ellies. Cardiff captured for 28g. T3L0S7, GW rushed.

    100 BC: Babylon GW, Mono > Seafaring. GERMANS SWAP TO LIGHTHOUSE. ARE YOU FRACKING KIDDING ME. This did not work at all. I could have been celebrating in early ADs, but nope. Actually, FU Germany, I’m building Lighthouse. And.. oh I’m a blithering idiot. They don’t even have Bronze Working. IDIOT. WHAT. THE. HECK. But, of course, to give them the tech I had to hand over Literacy, and we’re back to square one… Seal. What a doofus mistake… I didn’t even HAVE to build GW!!!

    Interturn: Berlin builds Lighthouse. WORST. CASE. SCENARIO. Arrrgh… (And you know what? On a replay scenario, they straight-up abandon wonder building instead of building the Colossus when I steal GW from their noses! The explanation why is on last paragraph…)

    25 BC: Cork, Carmathen sacked. Celts down to 1 city. Afterwards, Carths, and peace. Yikes, Americans and Spanish have expanded quite a bit! That’s bad.

    1 AD: Rush Mikes in Babylone for 108g. Trade Mono to Germans for Seafaring. Next oedo year 60 AD. Plan to bribe the last Celtic city for a guaranteed outpost for the Carth wars.

    STATUS AT 1 AD: (Beginning of 102st turn)
    Population: 1.600.000 Cities: 43 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 23 (researching NONE)
    Gold: 287 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 38 income, 0 cost. Production: 150MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: MPE, HG, Pyr, GW (lol) built. Mikes next turn. Germans have LH. (facepalm) Might have to give the Spanish Mono (if they swap in 1 turn?) or research Medicine to give them so they build Shakes instead of Colossus.

    Foreign relations: War with Celts, peace with rest. Will bribe last Celtic city, then use it as an outpost to launch Carth invation.

    Plans: Get a shipchain going, then trade to Germans. Been slacking on that. Road to Akkad is done. City will act as a port. Cannae5 will act as a canal.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  17. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Interturn: Engineering is the only available tech that has a wonder that the Spanish would like! But I don’t take the bait, I have a van next turn. Should pay good.

    20 AD: > Bridge Building > Medicine. Van for 240. Not very good… Techbomb the Indians a bit.

    Interturn: Germans start… Great Library. PLEASE. COLOSSUS. PLEASE.

    40 AD: Bribe Armagh for 114, get 57 back. NOT DEAD YET. One more city left.

    Interturn: SPANISH ALMOST DONE WITH COLOSSUS. Seriously… that’s the second massive mistake in a few hours. Should have gone for Engineering to make them build KRC instead… Holy, that’s depressing. This game could have been so good!! But instead, I get this. SMH.

    60 AD: Berlin no longer demands Hides. My Jesus Almighty… this is bad. I needed the bonuses for harbours. Dumping is a lot less effective, and straight-up unviable, w/o Colossus.

    100 AD: Venise built. Found last Celtic city soon. Delaying Republic bc 1. My Colossus gambit facepalmed and 2. I want control of the center of landmass 1 as well, in order to get access to the lands NE of India for future expansion. Will wait until taking out the Carths as well, for more offshore traders. Since Madrid built Colossus, I could make a shipchain from landmass 2 to rake in the bonuses, but that’s a time-requiring task.

    120 AD: Medicine > Banking. Milan built. Ghent built. Pise built. Ur copper (d) to Berlin: 320something, followed by 240.

    140 AD: Banking > Math. Kill last Celtic city, CELTS DESTROYED BY BABYLONIANS. No respawn. Carths down to Neutral. I’ll probably revolt at 220 AD. Dublin14 built. Toronto5 built.

    160 AD: Melbourne built. Sydney3 built. Babylone2 II built.

    200 AD: Decide to delay celebrations until 300 AD to fully secure Carth surrender. Tell Wilaya Hides (d) to Konigsberg: 232g. Not exactly certain how Big Trade works out with only 4 German cities and a limited selection of deliverable demanded goods. Again, sucks that I messed up on Colossus… Ur II built.

    220 AD: Math > University. Wine to Germans for 180g. Nineve II built. Carths: WAR. Kill Phalanx, run into a 2-stack east of Carthage. Will lose an ellie, but I can still take Carthage next turn with the 4 remaining ones as the city lacks walls. Utique can be bribed afterwards. Ashur II built.

    Interturn: Lose an Ellie to Carths. They split up their Horse and Archer.

    240 AD: Lose a Vet Ellie to Phalanx in Carthage, oddly enough. This ensures that I can’t capture Carthage this turn, but the city is defenseless at size 3. Horse killed, Archer is not in range. Uruk14 II built. Eridu8 II built.

    260 AD: Beads to Germans for 112. Conquer Carthage for 36g. They slipped out and created Caralis! Bribe Utique for 260g, get 40g back. Samarra2 II built.

    280 AD; University > Feudalism. Do not think that heavy trade will play a big part in this game, so I can afford to lose the warrior slot now that 1st-Act expansion is done. Quicker JSB will lead to faster colonies. More important, since the warrior slot loses some of its value with lesser trades. I can afford that tradeoff. Find undefended Caralis, conquer for 15g. CARTHAGINIAN CIV DESTROYED BY BABYLONIANS. No respawn. REVOLUTION THIS TURN. Lagash silk (d) to Berlin: 480g. (b4 revolution obviously) That’s a lot! Fortunately, I appear to be able to get a short-term Silk repeater in Berlin, which will help as I have a lot of the commodity. Great prices as well. Ship chain will finally be fully operational in 2 turns. Have almost 12 vans waiting in Akkad, unable to be delivered since the ship chain lagged. Dang wasted GW… REVOLUTION. TL6S4

    300 AD: Republic established. Umma copper (d) to Berlin: 208g. Blocks coal… T6L2S2, will delay celebrations until JSB is acquired. Further deliveries will arrive on 340AD, Theology discovery on 360AD, JSB+celebrations start on 380 AD. Hut: 25g.

    320 AD: Feudalism > Theology. Shuruppak trireme disbanded?? How did I mess that up… Now I’m being delayed by another extra turn. This game is going downhill fast since losing LH. T82S0.

    340 AD: Lagash4 II built. Kish2 II built. Nippour II built.

    360 AD: Tell Wilaya dye (d) to Berlin: 384, unblocks Copper. Larsa copper (d) to Berlin: 328g, unblocks Silk. T5L2S3 for Theology next turn. Hut: Settlers. Shuruppak II built. Hut: Theology. Well then! Still not getting JSB until 400 AD.

    380 AD: > Chemistry > Astronomy. Umma Trireme disbanded. Seriously, I keep forgetting to reset shields after optimizing trade routes… Eridu silk (d) to berlin: 432g. All blocked?!? Hut: Astronomy.

    400 AD; > Economy. BABYLON JSB. Hut: Barb horsemen.

    Interturn: Indians almost done with GL. Vet Elephant on a hill kills 3 attacking Barb horsemen before falling.

    420 AD: Hindana beads (nd) to berlin: 100g. Babylon silk (d) to Berlin: 528g. T2L5S3, discoveries 8 turns, celebrations everywhere. 3 black hats already, wow. And Invention is coming up. Not delaying Theology turned out to be good. Benefits aren’t great since I spent a lot of time post-Mono, pre-Inv in Monarchy gov’t, but the idea holds a lot of potential for sprawling Republics. Zariqum II built. Izibia II built. Economy > Engineering at some point? Must have missed it on my log.

    Interturn: Hambourg’s defender is killed by Barbarians! That might be bad.

    440 AD: Hut: Settlers. Thankfully the repeating Silk demand in Berlin – and ample supply in my homeland - is saving my bacon. But what could have been… Also Berlin Size 9. T3L5S2. Pop exceeds 5 million citizens.

    Interturn: Barbs fail to take Hambourg.

    460 AD: Engineering > Theory of Gravity. Pop almost to 7 million citizens. Nineve beads (nd) to Berlin: 236g. Ur silk (d) to Berlin: 612g. Unblocks Dye. Larsa II built. Nimroud II built. T4L5S1.

    480 AD: Theory of Gravity > Navigation… Neither Invention nor Sanitation were available. Pop exceeds 8.6 million citizens. Hut: 25g. T5L5S0. Most likely will not get a tech with 2 undemanded deliveries next turn, but I want to take my time to buy all the harbours needed. Will adjust from there.

    500 AD: Ur gold (nd) to Berlin: 232g, UNBLOCKS EVERYTHING. Nippour beads (nd) to Berlin: 160g. Zamua2 II built. Will still be waiting 2 more turns before triggering Navigation because I really need Harbours still. 35 ain’t enough. Demo is coming!

    STATUS AT 500 AD: (End of 126th turn)
    Population: 10.280.000 Cities: 74 Government: Republic Total advances: 35 (researching Navigation)
    Gold: 38 T5L5S0 Income/Cost per turn: 340 income, 45 cost. Production: 310MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: MPE, HG, Pyr, GW, Mikes, JSB built. Germans have LH, Madrid has Colossus, Indians have GL. (facepalm)

    Foreign relations: Celts and Carths dead. Peace with rest. No respawns.

    Plans: Explore rest of map when Navigation is obtained. Otherwise, standard empire growth. Have lots of settlers (30) that will be turned into Engineers eventually (kinda behind on WoWs… too many Silk vans and not enough Indian vans) but could use more, and have the food to do so in some cities. Irrigation of the homeland won’t take very much longer. Expansion kinda slowed down to a crawl since the Carth cities still need to be linked up to road network + some road squares for trade and luxuries.

    As far as foreign plans, I will eventually start buying out Spanish and American cities close-ish to Cardiff. But that won’t be for tomorrow. Gonna wait until my cores are to size 12 at the very least.

    Trade to Spanish is nowhere near being done. It’s more a wishlist than an actual thing. Cities need to celebrate, THEN build a road network there before any trading will be done. So it’s not very likely to be a major endeavour between now and Flight, especially given the small distance between cities.

    Pace of game feels kinda slow still, even if it’s 25 turns faster than my last game.Slower tech-wise than Major's, and it's not gonna catch up. I'm playing for GOTM score/expansion and not research speed.

    Another site for an SSC would be at (28, 56) near Indians, east of Carthage. Has bunch of rivers, wine, small game (the 3-food-2shields forest special, so not useful) and a hidden special on (27, 59) that might be of the Silk/Wine variety. Some river squares as well. But it wouldn’t be ready very quick, and requires too many resources I think. (Postgame edit: False alarm…)
  18. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Prince

    Mar 21, 2011
    The end is in sight, my spaceship is on the way. I think I could have launched before 1000, but definitelynot a full-size ship, so it took some turns longer.

    Until 500 AD:
    20 Sanitation->Chemistry; 276, 296
    40 Shakespeare built; 276
    (Indians build GL)
    60 Chem.->Invention (This or Nav);
    80 597; Barb caravel in sight, better rush some dips in nearby cities
    (Germans Invention, couldn't they have done that 1 turn earlier...???, Barb Legions disembark a few tiles away)
    100 Invention->Gunpowder; Telloh founded; 124,
    120 Bribe barb Legion for 82, killing another turns it vet, one more left; 146, 138,
    (Our Legion survives)
    140 Get Navigation from Germany to allow Gunpowder next, too bad nobody is working on Feudalism...
    (Barbs kill defender in Tell Wilaya)
    160 Delay deliveries for tactical reasons (building 1 more warrior), exploring cont. 2
    (Defender in Adab is killed, good thing we have moved the catapult there)
    180 Gunp.->Explosives; 68, 148, 138
    200 Ebla founded on cont. 2; 402
    220 Expl.->Physics; Neapel founded; Barb leader 150; 116, 204
    240 102, 126,
    280 Phys.->Magnetism; 156,
    (Germans develop Demo)
    300 Issus founded on cont. 9; 288
    320 Mag->Steam; 25 from hut; Cunaxa on cont. 18
    340 205, 572; Shiphcain to Germany re-arranged, need jobs for the boats; Indians are finally working on feudalism
    360 Steam->Railroad; 246, 116, 286; Get Demo from Germany
    380 RR->Ind.->Corporation->Metallurgy; Darwin built and again totally bypassed the "dry-years"; Cremona, Cannae, Capua(cont.14) founded; Barbs on island 12 (obviously all of them drowned); 120, 236, 174; Subvert revolting Washington for 2*182 (56+WC)
    400 Bribe barb Elephant for 82; 306, 204
    420 Metall->Feudalism (don't wanna wait for Indians, we need Bach); Turin founded (cont.10); 50g from polar hut; 84, 320, 142, 156, 160
    440 Genua (cont. 11), Kreta (cont. 23) founded; 290
    460 Feud.->Genetic; 522, 130, 420; Gift Feud to India, hoping they switch to Chivalry;
    (Germans steal Chemistry, we don't care)
    480 Genetic->Theology; Cure for Cancer built; India working on Communism; New Jersey founded in former America; 450, 504
    500 Theo->Electricity; Maine, Lissabon founded; 498, 106, 120; stupid Germans have blokced our passage to Berlin for more deliveries

    Stats at 500AD:
    pop.: 7.05M; Cities: 40; techs: 48; gold: 1113; Gov.: Rep; wonders: Pyr, HG, MPE, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Shakespeare, Darwin, Cure; TR: 2D/42F
    units: 24 engineer, 22 musc, 2 horse, 1 cannon, 13 boat, 3 dip, 8 van, 1 explorer
    Goals: Bach next turn, demo the turn after, then celebrations; expand some more, complete railroad network, build more roads around Berlin
  19. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Launching with almost 3 digits on the clock. That ain't bad for a normal-sized map. 1500AD is my own launch date, a fair bit later. Full ship.

    Huh, you weren't going for Demo straight-up. Your belief is that going for Engineers+Freights (and skipping JSB) is more important for trade+revenue than the lost arrows from corruption? Empire's fairly compact, so that could have worked.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  20. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Prince

    Mar 21, 2011
    It was really helpful that my germans got to build Colossus. I tried to make the most of it. But you are gonna be far beyond me in population, I really doubt my earliness will compensate for the GOTM score...
    Hmm, good point! Maybe I could have switched to Demo 1 or 2 cycles earlier. My high priority after Inv/Nav is Cosporation for freights, then get set for Demo (Magnetism, Theo, Bach). In this game, Demo the pick-up-tech that allowed a straight shot to Corporation after Railroad ,and with Darwin during the same turn, but that was an oedo year. So, hm, I might have been ready for Demo in 460, for slightly higher payouts, but as you mentioned, my empire was rather closely packed, so corruption was not too high in Republic. And, when I finally switched to Demo in 540, all was set for massive celebrations.

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