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GOTM 192 (WW2 again)

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Ali Ardavan, Jul 3, 2017.

  1. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Three years ago (GOTM 159), we played the WW2 scenario that shipped with the original game to commemorate the 75th anniversary of world war 2. That time we played as Allies

    Then last year (GOTM 179) we played the same scenario again but we played as Axis.

    This month, we will be playing the same scenario again. This time we will play as Russians.

    The scenario we are playing is the one that shipped with the game. You should all have it. I tried to enclose it for the sake of completeness but got an error due to unrecognized file type. Apparently you cannot attach scenarios as is. If any player lacks the scenario please say so in this thread and I will make sure to find a way to get you a copy.

    There are no new buildings, or techs, or units, or wonders, in this scenario. There is no learning curve. Still, if you are not familiar with this scenario or generally with scenarios you are allowed to play a few turns aimlessly to get the feel of it.

    World War 2 Scenario, 45 turns
    Playing as Russians at Deity level


    The game will start with Axis and then move in the usual order. If you let the AI play, typically Axis takes at least Amsterdam and Paris on the first turn and wipes out allied forces on mainland Europe. There is nothing you can do about this.

    Victory conditions:
    Gold, silver, and bronze go to players who wipe out Axis fastest or get closest to it (measured in number of Axis objectives left) by the last turn. Green star goes to the player who achieves Axis decisive defeat first (Axis reduced to 6 objectives). Blue star goes to the player with the most objectives at their final turn. In case of a tie in any of the above, the player with more cities wins. In case of a tie in number of cities, the larger population wins.

    Lest it is not obvious, you are free to engage in warfare with everyone.

    Rivals
    Russian: 31 cities, 63 techs, Communist, 26 objectives;
    Turk: 5 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 2 objectives;
    Axis: 22 cities, 66 techs, Republic, 16 objectives; Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Leo, Bach; War with Allies, Neutrals, and French
    Spanish: 9 cities, 61 techs, Monarchy, 3 objectives; Magellan;
    Neutral: 4 cities, 57 techs, Monarchy, 3 objectives; Allied with Allies, war with Axis
    Allies: 16 cities, 69 techs, Democracy, 16 objectives; Pyramids, Lighthouse, Great Library, King Richard, Shakespeare, Newton, Adam Smith, Darwin, Liberty, Suffrage, Hoover dam; Allied with Neutrals and French, war with Axis
    French: 12 cities, 64 techs, Democracy, 4 objectives; Eiffel; Allied with Allies, war with Axis

    Parameters
    - No tech upon city capture
    - No revolution (Command is grayed out). (However if you were playing Axis, upon acquiring Democracy you may change government subject to the usual rules.)
    - No senate interference
    - No pollution
    - Apollo, SETI, UN, Cure are not available. Manhattan is.
    - There are 70 objectives; wonders are objectives
    - Axis Decisive/Marginal Victory is 54/32
    - Axis Decisive/Marginal Defeat is 6/16

    Deadline: Sep 5, 2017

    Please be sure to follow the submission guidelines when submitting your game (please do not send your files in a .zip file. Attach them directly to your e-mail with your name in the save file). Submit two saves; one just before marginal victory and the other one your final turn (right before decisive victory or final turn of the scenario or whenever else you choose to stop). No extra save is needed.

    Please send the saved games only to civ2gotm@gmail.com.

    Have fun.
     
  2. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    PLEASE NOTE: Per the Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty, we currently are in a CEASE-FIRE state with the Axis. That isn't going to last very long.

    Also, our western armies are poop. We have little in terms of city garrisons. Our entire railroad network is... a road network. (Ain't nobody got time for building a real one) Have plenty of Vet tanks near Krasonyarsk, but it will take a good 10 turns to reach the future frontline. Cities are not very industrialized (save for Ural region, decently far away) and few have Barracks. Also an annoyingly high amount of irrrigated grass w/o roads. Commerce is super bad. It's going to require almost 80% taxes just to break even... YIKES.

    There is no way to exploit trade, American reserves, or immediate firepower playing as the Russians. Looking forward to finding out how people will tackle this.

    Usually the French sue for peace after losing Paris. Hopefully the Allies don't do as well. War on one front is not fun.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2017
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    All of the above should make it even more interesting. I love this scenario and have played Axis and Allies before but never as Russians.
     
  4. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

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    Just to make sure I understood the victory conditions, wiping out the axis means zero objectives, correct? That is, I don't have to capture every last city if I get to zero objectives before the end of the scenario.
     
  5. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    I have no clue, but I played until total Axis wipe.
     
  6. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    '- No revolution (Command is grayed out). (However if you were playing Axis, upon acquiring Democracy you may change government subject to the usual rules.)'

    1.It's not true,if you play with Russians,researching Democracy or Fundamentalism you can make revolution in that turn when is finished research,you will be asked if you want a revolution.Too,like Axis,stealing Democracy or Fundamentalism can make revolution.
    2.Because you not played more time with Russians you propose this GOTM with Russians Ali:).Was a disscusion in that thread of WW II with Axis and you tried with a weak civ to see the events,maybe with 2.42,not MGE,but anyway peace Russians- Axis is impossible,scenario parameters,if you take a city from Axis,they will demand more gold for a cease fire.I said this,if the next research of Axis is Nuclear Fission,game over...More times French research Fission and they can exchange with Axis,too Allies can research and exchange.99% Allies and French will make alliance with Axis against you.No enough army in garrisons,no railroads,no engineers,no more factories,some tanks far away near Krasnoyarsk.
    When I played with Russians smart Axis made Manhattan Project in a city too far to sabotage,Bergen,Tripoli,or other.To finish this GOTM=just a simple luck and I hope that will be a FAIR competition,no restarts to give a new try after the first nuke received...
    One of my succesful try was following 'Allies Path',tanks from Syberia near Mosul and Baghdad,forcing Allies to pay tribute good techs and money,Robotics and more,after my diplomats stealing other techs.
    Other way is to take Warsaw and Konigsberg using veteran fighters to kill Axis fighters protecting cities,after riflemen.If are other ways I'm very curious.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  7. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Good point, as usual, Prof. Garfield. The way I worded it, your interpretation is correct.
    Jokemaster, hopefully you have enough saves that it would be immaterial.
    Thanks for pointing that out catalin72.
    Indeed you are correct. Besides the GOTMs I have played this scenario on my own as axis and allies but never as Russians. This should be interesting.
     
  8. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    @ali: I have saves for both Decisive Defeat and Total Wipe. Unfortunately, I dont have an exact Marginal Defeat savefile (a few turns too early) and my GOTM192 Word doc somehow got lost (?!?!?) so I can't comment that accurately on how my game went (or when it happened). Only thing I remember is the broad strategies and tactics/units used. No list of builds, and/or improvements sold.

    @Catalin: Strange. My Axis did not research Nuclear Fission at all. They were nowhere near a threat after the initial onslaught.
     
  9. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    @Catalin: Strange. My Axis did not research Nuclear Fission at all. They were nowhere near a threat after the initial onslaught.
    You played in MGE or 2.42? Look at the both games of Prof. Garfield,in 2.42 and MGE.In 2.42 Rocketry was developed by Axis in june 1941,in MGE in april 1941,why ?
    You are old player and sure you played like me many times this scenario or other scenarios,Rome,etc.Never in your games you saw alliance Axis-Allies,MP made my Axis and nukes received before to eliminate them,you knew the good path for victory from the first game,always you played to eliminate just Axis,or you played for war with more civs? I did not say that NF will be researched by Axis sure 100%.It is enough to be researched by Allies and they will exchange with Axis.Maybe nobody will research.If you or other player will have bad luck,Allies will make peace with Axis in turn 2 or 3(I saw this too many times),Axis will cancel cease fire in turn 5-6,and without city walls,you or other can loose very quick Kiev,Odessa,Minsk,Riga,Sevastopol,don't forget Axis paratratroopers.More partisans are 'funny' but not a solution in this map...
    That's why I was against this GOTM,need too many 'favorable winds'..Any random map generated or a premade map started in 4000 BC can be a GOTM,AI sure 99.99% will be defetead,but in this game the advantages of AI are too many,units,wonders,science.AI is AI,is dumb,but without ground units,walls,fighters can cause you trouble.You never saw Manhattan Project made in one turn by Axis? I saw this 3-4 times.But I'm that player with the last place in GOTM's,I'm a bad player,sure.If few players 'place a good bet' on a long cease fire +a long war Axis-Allies=more Axis bombers,fighters,tanks lost and they let cities undefended,maybe you or other player will place a losing bet...
    I will wait to see your bet in this GOTM where the luck is more important than most GOTM's.Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  10. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    A question for the setter,I don't understand that 'most objectives' in rules:
    The player who destroys in 45 turns all civilizations,what will have?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2017
  11. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Chieftain Supporter

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    The reason why is that in the MGE game Amsterdam was captured with the Library and University intact, while in the classic game these buildings were destroyed. I've uploaded the saved games from my Classic game in the spoiler thread. If you use the cheat mode to edit the Axis research progress in April 1941, you will find that in the Classic game the Axis are 11 beakers short of the technology cost while in the MGE game they have zero beakers accumulated for their next technology, meaning they triggered the discovery with their very last city processed.
     
  12. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    You have joined us rather recently compared to other players. It will take a while to hone your skills and move up.
    I suppose you are talking about the blue star. What I mean is that if players A, B, and C all destroy Axis before the end of scenario, then one who wins the blue star is the one who has more objectives on their last turn. They are not all going to have the same number of objectives because you could lose some by razing cities, losing cities to other players, and other players taking Axis objectives before you do. You could also gain some by getting objective cities from other (than Axis) rivals.[/user]
     
  13. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    Yes,thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  14. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    Ali Ardavan:You have joined us rather recently compared to other players. It will take a while to hone your skills and move up.
    Yes,this is a truth.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017

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