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GOTM 200 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Major Advantage, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    So, back at the game after a few months. First of all congrats to Ali for setting this one up! :goodjob:
    Really a great challenge you have created, and the early years are just flying by with not much to do, and you are always aware of the challenges to come!

    After studying the map, the rough schedule seems pretty obvious to me: Settle the southernmost islands as best as possible, build LH, sail north and grab as much land and huts as possible before the AI do. Since we are playing deity, we also need to keep an eye on happiness. Key wonders should be LH and Marco Polo (+HG is nice-to-have, but the rivals won't be sleeping), later Michelangelo.

    I was a little disappointed when the first hut resulted in pottery, but then I realized it was on-path for harbors, so not that bad at all. Later on, I realized that harbors are less useful when you are still in despotism....

    First part of my log:

    -4000 Go for hut first, we have two attempts to reach the tile next to it, first one makes it! Other settler waits one turn
    -3950 We get pottery from hut! This could have been way better... Peking founded. No food surplus. I guess that means we have to keep our 2nd settler since Peking is unable to build one prior to harbor
    -3900 Research Alph, pretty obvious we need mapmaking first
    -3800 Start mining oil, since there is nothing else to do
    -3750 Warrior built, start settler, should be able to switch to trireme in time by switching production to fish every now and then
    -3450 Alph->Mapmaking (discovery in 17 turns->2700);
    -2700 Mapmaking->Seafaring(harbor first, then monarchy)
    -2600 Trireme built, start granaries (30 turns, Seafaring in 24 turn)
    -2550 Head for Tundra island with pre-charged settler, irrigate buffalo first, then found city at 4-specials
    -2150 Shanghai founded, rb barracks in Peking, switch to granaries
    -1850 Seaf.->Burial;
    -1800 Harbor built in Peking, ouch, only works when working fish, but then there is no production, re-home boat to Shanghai, start LH in Peking
    -1600 Nomads on Tundra Island! Yes! Now we can settle Hill Island with him (found-while-mining)...that makes me think: Should we have mined Peking city site first before founding??? Probably, would have been 1 more shield throughout the game...
    -1150 Burial->Bronze;
    (France moves capital)

    Stats at 1000BC:
    pop.: 40k; Cities: 2; techs: 5; gold: 37; Gov.: Des; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 2 settler, 2 warrior, 1 boat
    Goals: LH, Monarchy, trade+Marco's; settle Tundra
     
  2. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    GOTM200! In the middle of tax season. I have no time to finish this, however I will play the beginning. I am curious regarding a specific strat I thought up.

    The objective here is obviously to settle the big lands first. Whoever expands the hardest, wins. (Outside of a really weird/delayed SSC strat, or heavy domestic trade. Don`t think that`s really possible with our island layout however). There is a ton of land up north, and the rival civs are contained by the mountain ranges. Cannot feasibly trade with them. To expand rapidly, one must build settlers rapidly… The Pyramids would help with that.

    Yes, Pyramids. Not HG. Not even in Deity mode. I will be going Pyramids – Lighthouse in order of WoW priority, as LH is usually claimed later: I genuinely think expansion speed, once we get to the mainland, is more important. (We do not have trade revenue to artificially juice settler speed with WLTPD.) The reason for not going for HG is because I will not be able to get all 3 of them. LH is obviously required, and Pyramids>HG for reasons mentioned above. (Granaries don`t expire.)
    EDIT: Also would like to mention that the main reason for getting HG in Deity mode is for quick unrest management whilst in a hard-expand mode, and for aiding celebrations once in Republic. The map's layout and available terrain negates a fair bit of the first point, by hampering expansion speed (not without LH first, at least): and damages the second, as I will not have the revenue to rush Harbours everywhere (which would be needed in this map). Once LH is obtained/expansion resumes, it would start mattering: but not by enough, I think. Mikes would come fast enough for the HG-skip to be worth it.

    I will cap myself to 14 cities until Mikes is obtained (make settler boats instead. Skip some middle islands) and hardexpand – going to Genetic Engineering as fast as possible. Then, , WLTPD, yada yada. Not going LH first is pretty risky, however I don`t think that it`s as important as Pyramids, as LH`s rewards (expanding to the Plains/Prairies islands) are rather delayed. Securing Pyramids is going to do wonders for my own personal growth in the homebase islands, which will be HUGELY important. Food is the big limiting factor here.

    We start with 2 Settlers, and are 4 squares away from a hut. What I think is intended is that we get 5 tries to get a NONE settler from the hut. (Possible result if we are at least 4 squares away from a city. And since it`s a glacier square, settlers obvi) If we get one, then we can get a Trireme out pretty early, and start work on a WoW early enough to get both of them. If we don`t… then we have to size1, and that`s going to be a serious drain food-wise. (City won`t grow to size2 afterwards, until the settler builds.) BIG time-loss: basically bye-bye to the ambitious scenario. If so, which WoW do we choose? I don`t even know…

    Also: just looked up the NOMADS rule on sethos.gmxhome.de It seems like it counts every NONE settler as a “nomad” and accepts no less than 8 cities for each nomad. Does this include the NONE settlers you start with? Hopefully not…


    4000 BC: “Emperor Yoyo Ma of the Chinese” Beijing built. Aaaand I don`t even get food from building on a Glacier square. Didn`t even think about that. Guess I REALLY need that NONE Settler then. Or alternatively, Seafaring/Monarchy. It does mean however that I can go straight to building a ship with no garrison.

    3950 BC: >Alphabet.

    3900 BC: Save before attempting. Attempt no 1: Pottery. Attempt no 2: HBR. Attempt no 3: HBR again. Attempt 4: HBR again. Can I at least get gold? Attempt no 5: 50g. I will keep the gold. Do not want an offpath tech, as MapMaking is already one. Looks like my NOMADS fears were true. Both things did not go as planned…

    3750 BC: Alphabet > Map Making.

    3300 BC: Map Making > masonry. Damn it, off-path is the cost regardless.

    3200 BC: Trireme in Beijing, start LH.

    2900 BC: Shanghai built on tundra island. Will rush warrior for hut-hunting.

    2750 BC: Hut: SETTLERS!!! HOLY SH*T!! That flat-out isn`t supposed to happen 3 squares close to a city! What the heck! Will immediately go to the hill island.

    2600 BC: Masonry > Ceremonial Burial. Made a mistake not uncovering a whale near Tundra island, I lose 1 good city spot for a while.

    2400 BC: Canton built on Hill island. Hut: DAMN! Barbarians.

    Interturn: Lose Warrior to Barbarians.

    2350 BC: Rush Warrior in Canton. Should I even try to defend, or just pay cash…

    2300 BC: Barb horse does not move near Canton.

    2220 BC: Barb horse appears to have buggered off. 60/200s in Beijing. If only I had mined the square first instead of going for the hut…

    2050 BC: Shanghai settlers.

    2000 BC: Burial > Code of Laws.


    STATUS AT 1950 BC: (End of 42nd turn)

    Population: 30.000 Cities: 3 Government: Despotism Total advances: 4 (researching CoL)
    Gold: 43 T4L0S6 Income/Cost per turn: 3 income, 0 cost. Production: 6MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Currently building LH.

    GOALS: Monarchy, get closer to building a wonder. Build LH, Two mistakes already… might be costly. Will probably have to build a wonder on tundra island. With only 2 cities, unlikely, 3 whales would have been more feasible. I did not think of everything.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  3. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    Oops, I totally missed the part of the 5-tries-for-first-hut-part...:wallbash:
    I probably would have chosen something else than pottery... However, pottery is on-path for harbors and explorers, maybe this will turn out not so bad after all.

    I am not so sure abouth your thoughts on pyramids, sure they are nice, but our resources are limited and they AI have fertile lands and it is deity, so I had doubt that we would be able to build more than 2 early wonders, and my priorities were highly on LH and Marco's. And I failed to get both of them...
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Sorry to hear that. I just made "Special Rules" into bold print in the game thread. Hopefully, it will help some one else.

    Thanks.

    Keep in mind this one runs for 2 months: March and April. There will not be an April GOTM and the deadline for this is a month later than usual.
     
  5. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Thanks, Ali. I`ve now played up to 1750 AD, and have seen the accompanying AI attitude dip. I must say, I don`t remember the last time I hit that timedate whilst playing seriously/no city-limit challenge. Not even past the Renaissance phase, despite having bullish futures.

    2000-1000 BC:

    1900 BC: Shanghai settler, starts LH. (Settler would build Nankin a few turns later.)

    Interturn: Canton warrior fends off Barb horse, vet. City riots but it`s OK.

    1850 BC: Code of Laws > BW. Offpath yet again. At least I don`t have that bad of a tech rate.

    1300 BC: Rush a settler in Canton.
    (Yes, seriously. First few turns were boring.)
    Interturn: Romans start Colossus. No panic.

    1100 BC: Tsingtao built on HILL island. 5 cities, no more until Monarchy.

    1050 BC: NANKIN DISORDER. Wtf? Does the map size setting (for the riot factor) default to Normal when you have unusual map sizes? Thankfully it was not Beijing…


    STATUS AT 1000 BC: (End of 61nd turn)
    Population: 120.000 Cities: 5 Government: Despotism Total advances: 5 (BW next turn)
    Gold: 56 T4L0S6 Income/Cost per turn: 4 income, 0 cost. Production: 10MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Currently building LH twice. Romans building Colossus.

    GOALS: Monarchy, get closer to building a wonder. Build LH. Starting to reconsider Pyramids first. LH first might also be good.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  6. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    Isn't that correct? The 5th city triggers the riot factor when you are in despotism? Cannot recall that I read something about the map size with regard to this.


    So for my game, seems I am already seriously behind in the early years. Not sure if an early harbor in the capital can make up for that.

    Right now I am past 1600 AD, and it is still a hell of a struggle. I was stuck, not knowing what to do next ... then I made a decision that had turned things around for the better, however now I am kind of stuck again. But that is for days to come to discuss, when more players have joined in.
     
  7. catalin72

    catalin72 Chieftain

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    You are right about riot factor,4 cities allowed in despotism,but for large maps 6 in deity.
     
  8. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    @Major: I`ve played the opening moves of EC maps often enough to know that in despotism, we get the riot factor at the 5th city in a normal-sized map, which is unlike large map where the 6th city is the trigger. I remember being heavily annoyed by that detail, as Monarchy typically won`t come fast enough (and neither will Trade/HG)

    Also, let`s establish the following. Democracy has a riot factor of 15 cities before every riot factor proc, large map, at Divinity level.
    Spoiler :
    I am at 166 cities currently. I have 14 black hats in my size15 capital when I should have 9/10 black hats, had this been a large-map game.
    I don't think it adds up. And it makes things mighty annoying for handling unrest, as i have to pump up luxuries higher than I'd like to handle all the black hats. Mikes/JSB is effective against red hats, but not black ones.
     
  9. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Anyone else started?
     
  10. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    You are right about the riot factor, my bad.

    I went to refresh my knowledge of it in the depths of this forum and read something I had just discovered on my own. And that piece of knowledge would have been good to know before starting the game... ;)
     
  11. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    (1000 BC to 1 AD log)

    700 BC: ROMANS SWAP FROM COLOSSUS TO PYRAMIDS. CRAPCRAPCRAPCRAPCRAP.

    675 BC: Monarchy > Currency.

    650 BC: REVOLUTION.

    625 BC: Romans almost done with Pyramids. Decision time… I am six techs away from Navigation. But that assumes no detouring for anything. Like Trade, or Mikes. 33 turns until Shanghai is done with LH. You know what? I`ll risk it for a biscuit. Pyramids rushed for 68g in Beijing.

    600 BC: Pyramids built in Beijing. ROMANS SWAP TO GW. YESYESYES.

    525 BC:Built a city at some point?

    500 BC: Zulus start HG. French almost done with HG. I think I am home free. Xinjian built.

    475 BC: Zulus swap to Colossus, French start GL.They build HG, but I`m gambling I won`t need it.


    STATUS AT 475 BC: (End of 82nd turn)

    Population: 210.000 Cities: 6 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 7 (Currency in 2 turns)
    Gold: 40 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 4 income, 0 cost. Production: 20MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids in Beijing. HG in French Orléans. 28 turns to LH in Shanghai, not under threat for the time being.

    GOALS: Build LH. Get a few more cities going. Prep some boats, and mines in the hill islands.

    450 BC: Currency > Mysticism. I never get the tech I want. Techrate 8 turns.

    425 BC: Idle boat not doing anything… will attempt the crossing. Beijing can replace boats, and I am not getting Trade fast enough for priorities to change. Aaand the boat is lost. RIP.

    375 BC: Settlers on hill island, two of them. Will mine the shared coal square. 22 turns left for LH.

    275 BC: Roman Véies builds GW.

    250 BC: Mysticism `> Trade. One shared mine is done, time for the other. Should also have created roads between Shanghai, Xinjian and Nankin to disband warriors. Try again with the great crossing: successful this time.

    200 BC: Zulus start KRC. Hut: BARBARIANS… you mean this whole thing was pointless?? (I had a warrior on board, hoping for an AT) That sucks.

    Interturn: Lose my Warrior.

    25 BC: Trade > HBR.

    STATUS AT 1AD: (End of 101st turn)

    Population: 210.000 Cities: 6 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 10 (researching HBR)
    Gold: 48 T3L0S7 Income/Cost per turn: 4 income, 0 cost. Production: 23MT 0 polluted tiles
    Wonders: Pyramids in Beijing. HG in French Orléans, GW in Roman Véies. Lh will be built in a few turns.

    GOALS: Finish Building LH, then send boats north close. Get a few more cities on the hill island: taking the time to do mine-on-city trick. Hill island will be on WoW duty for the rest of the game.
     
  12. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

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    Log until 1000 BC

    I spent several weeks staring at the initial position trying to organize plans. What a rich map!
    Clearly this must be Spaceship.
    So, a large Civ with lots of late trading is in the cards.

    Of the attractive early strategies, I chose fast Monarchy.

    4000 Found Nunavut, start Warrior.
    3950 Research CB so that there is a clear path to Monarchy.

    3800 Warrior built. Warrior makes it to glacier, irrelevantly
    3750 CB=> Alph.
    3700 2nd settler builds into Beijing. Now getting 5 arrows. RB 2ndWarrior.
    Pop first Hut:
    1. Ruins
    2. Horse
    2. 25g
    4. Archer
    5. Nomads. Whew! I’ll take it.

    Glacier 2 (2) founded.

    I am, of course, hoping for nomads on uninhabited islands, which is a good chance.
    But I am prepared wait until Monarchy for 2rd city if necessary

    3650* 2nd warrior makes Beijing happy.
    3500 Alph=> Map Making. (0/33)

    3150 Map Making=> CoL
    3100 Trireme built, heading for Tundra, Nunavut trireme; Start LH.

    Status 3000 BC
    2C, 0 Sett gov: Despotism 3 tech, res CoL
    2 Warr, 2 Trireme


    2900 Hut: Nomads. Good fortune.
    2850* Shanghai warrior
    2800 Tundra founded (3)

    2750 Warrior disbands into LH build. This will happen every 3-4 turns.

    2650* CoL=> Mon (5/60; 6/turn) ETA 2250.
    2600 hut: Nomads! Best result.

    2500 East Hills founded (4)

    2250* missed Monarchy by one turn.
    2200 Monarchy=> BW.

    2100 Revolution.
    2050* gov: Monarchy

    Status 2050 BC
    4C, 0 Sett gov: Mon 5 tech res BW.
    4 Warr, 2 Trireme


    Goals:
    Limited expansion
    Build LH (83/200)
    Fold in Warriors from Glacier 2
    Mine Coal in Hills isle – it is on the date line.
    Road Nunavut Walrus

    Monarchy to Trade

    2000 French Capital moved to Orleans.

    1850* North Tundra (5)
    1800 BW=> Curr. LH 108/200

    1500 French start Pyr. Curr=> Trade

    Status 1500 BC
    5C, 1 Sett gov: Monarchy 7 tech res Trade
    5 Warr, 2 Trireme LH 131/200


    Goals:
    Mountain in 2 turns
    Use next Tundra Settler for developing.
    Trade ETA 1100BC.

    1350 Mountain (6) Nunavut working Oil at -2 food cost
    1050* Trade=> Myst
    1000 Nunavut builds Lighthouse.

    Status 1000 BC
    6C, 3 Sett gov: Monarchy LH
    5 Warr, 2 Trireme.
    8 tech, res Myst (27/126)
     
  13. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Wow, I didn`t think of taking that specific tech path. Guess I`ll learn it for next time. Your Monarchy is much quicker than mine.

    Holy moly, the nomads luck. Also, did you build Beijing before or after popping your first 2 huts?
     
  14. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    Impressive indeed! It seems you are way ahead in the early game. Not sure how competitive my game will be...

    Log until 1 AD:
    -975 Canton founded 2 tiles north of Shanghai
    (Mongols move as well)
    -775 Bronze->Laws;
    (French build Pyramids)
    -500 Nanking founded
    -475 Laws->Monarchy(117); Currency from hut, was next on the list, but this will delay monarchy
    -400 Tsingtao founded on Hill Island
    -350 English build Colossus, somebody started Marco Polo
    -125 Mon.(rev.+est.)->Trade; Got a warrior to Peking just in time to end riots since it had just grown to size 3, now working whale, fish and mined oil, generating 8 shields, 87 to go until LH
    -25 Xinjian founded, Tundra Island now fully settled

    Stats at 1AD:
    pop.: 190k; Cities: 6; techs: 9; gold: 92; Gov.: Mon; wonders: -; TR: 0D/0F
    units: 1 settler, 6 warrior, 2 boat
    Goals: LH, then head north with settlers and explorers; trade+Marco's
     
  15. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

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    I built Beijing on the first turn and folded the other settler in before popping the first hut. The game doesn't like to give you a NONE settler if you already have one.

    I expected the first hut to get a nomad in five tries, and I expected one nomad from the other two huts, but was happy to get two.

    Time will tell if I created a deep enough Civ to power through the tech tree efficiently.
     
  16. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Wait, you built Beijing into size2??

    What the heck
    ?

    That was insanely risky! Had you not gotten a settler from the hut after 5 tries, you would have had to build a new one from Beijing to expand past your home island - and them be stuck with food costs from the supported settler as well. Since we built on Glacier (a 0 food square) Beijing doesn`t have an opportunity to get a food surplus until Monarchy is achieved - it`s stuck at Surplus, 0 food otherwise, - meaning any supported settler would be lost after 1 turn, unable to build a new city or do anything! That was... holy risky.

    Also, building Glacier II with your second NONE does not give you a food surplus either - does give you a fast Monarchy, but still unable to support a settler either way. There was a reliance, instead, on popping more NONES from huts on offshore islands, with that 44% chance. Had this not happened, you would have had to wait until Monarchy (and maybe harbours) to expand past your starting island anyway. Pardon me if I misunderstood something, but holy moly. That was essentially a game-ending risk, TWICE.

    I mean, I am one to talk when it comes to taking massive risks on this map, but jeez. People really seem to be swinging for the fences for that one...
     
  17. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

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    Actually, I never thought it was remotely a game-ending risk. With the 2nd settler in Beijing I was getting 4 beakers per turn, and Monarchy was going to come around 2050. It would be another 20 turns for a settler, which would have been the most unlucky result. I would have been close to trade by then. It wouldn't have been so bad. I'll replay it later with crummy hut luck and see how bad it is. I note that at 1000BC, both you and the Major were still in Despotism. Major had only 2 cities and you had 5. Fast Monarchy must be the best plan.

    But because of the way hut probabilities work, there was a strong chance of a nomad from one of the huts on the uninhabited islands. 44% each time. And the main thing is that my civ was kind of productive, making science and money. I felt that no real expansion was meaningful before Lighthouse anyway. I was building warriors every other turn in the second glacier city and disbanding them into the capital for a faster Lighthouse build.
     
  18. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

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    I couldn't believe it, so I just re-started the game, and it actually works! You can also settle the 2nd settler into city on the very first turn and compensate unhappiness with luxuries! I got a nomad on the 4th try for the first hut (not sure how things can be handled if there is no nomad from this hut), the other huts on the southernmost islands were legion and nomad. So I didn't quite get the result you had, with 44% for a nomad each time, the chance for two nomads on tundra + hill is only ~19%, but for at least one of them it is ~69%, if I remember correctly how to calculate these things, awaiting a mathemagicians (Ali) confirmation. ;)
    I haven't thoroughly about this, I was so happy to about the nomad that I kept him to have mined cities on hill island, that resulted in a higher productivity for later wonders, but slowed down expansion and early tech progress...
     
  19. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Monarchy at 2050 BC... Still. When you think of it, a lot of the difference between you and me re: Monarchy speed is your better tech path. I went three off-paths (one of which was Map Making), you went one for MM alone. I would have likely been able to swap to Monarchy at maybe 1450 BC otherwise (at the cost of a later Trireme) had I known about your path. It masks a little bit the advantage of your earlygame compared to our real ones, since me and Major both kinda messed it up in different ways.


    The way you phrase "20 turns" leads me to believe that Beijing would still be building a wonder regardless, and that Glacier 1 would be doing the job. It`s a long time to get a 3rd city... which is the situation Major`s in right now (for different reasons). If it fails, then the 3rd city would not be built until 850 BC, and the 4th city until 250 BC. Hill island would also not be colonized for a while, threatening the ability to build wonders like MPE/Mikes there in time. Expansion there, was highly meaningful in my game, and likely in yours as well. Granted, it came for free, but it still made a difference. (What if it didn`t?)

    In my game, the tundra island was where most of my settlers came from. (Closest to forest island and its valuable specials) Not being able to settle tundra fast enough, and its 3 whales, does hurt the civ`s ability to churn out settlers for the forest island+the big landmass once LH is completed. And being late to the landmass=falling seriously behind the curve compared to other GOTM submissions. (See my comments regarding "The Snowball" on the spoiler thread for GOTM176: whoever was best able to capture the early Barb cities got way ahead of everyone. In this game, whoever gets to expand first on the big landmass gets a leg up on everyone else...) Sacrificing expansion to still send settlers north on time, if the strategy fails, could also have been an idea, but the boats would not have departed before 300 BC: and it would have still hurt food/expansion-wise. It would have also prevented getting another wonder from LH.

    If you fail the first gamble, it`s less bad since the strategy can be saved by getting a NONE from one of the 2 huts: but then expansion speed only becomes similar to my own game, which makes the risk pointless for a relatively break-even result. (That is ignoring my own NONE, which I got regardless, so my own luck would still put me ahead unless you got both huts)

    What are the benefits of getting this early-Monarchy strat? Apart from the two NONES this strategy needs to work... getting Monarchy earlier means another arrow off whales 12-16 turns ahead of schedule. (and more importantly getting Trade before the wonder race started: you can probably get multiple WoWs safely, I was fairly lucky to get both Pyramids and LH. I actually think that was way more impactful than early Monarchy) It means an easier time managing unrest and shield support, and less corruption/faster growth on Hill island. But there was still the chance for NONES regardless in the hill/tundra islands, regardless of what strategy was used. Your lead might be less the product of extra beakers from Mon, and more the product of honest settler luck. Which, apart from the Glacier hut, everyone else could have also gotten.


    The odds of getting a favourable result are roughly 67-69% in both cases. But both the events need to go right (1 nomad or more) for your strategy to work better than ours. Taken together, that`s a 48% probability of success. If you fail the 1st gamble and get the 2nd, then it`s another 11% of acceptable-ish outcome, and an extra 2% of kinda-success if both offshore huts are NONES. A 40% of hopelessly behind earlygame (and another 10% of marginally behind) is something to consider when The Snowball is a factor. Unless you`re able to do something significant with the 48% you got (like getting all 3 of HG/Pyr/LH, or sending settler boats to the mainland way ahead of schedule) then I don`t think the benefits would overweigh the drawbacks.
     
  20. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

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    Jokemaster;

    Thanks for the analysis. I plan to check it out after I finish the game. My plan would be to finish LH, then build a settler from Beijing to go to the Forest island, or maybe Tundra. In the interest of the experiment I will not allow any nomads from any of the bottom two tiers. It will be slower, but I don't think catastrophic. It kind of depends when Pottery comes. If I can build a granary in Beijing everything speeds up. It will be a brief but fin challenge.
     

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