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GOTM 200 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Major Advantage, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Florida
    I finished the game on Sunday when my spaceship landed. Like most people I was spending multiple hours per turn while the spaceship was in flight. On the last turn I had 60 engineers and 4 settlers to build into my cities.

    BTW at -1000 I had 1 settler, 4 warriors and 1 trireme. At +1 I had 3 settlers, 12 warriors and 5 triremes.

    I will post more of my log at some point. Here are a few highlights

    Founded city on jungle island (continent 16) in +60
    Founded city on swamp island (continent 15) in +80 (city square was irrigated first).
    Founded city on Plains Island (continent 13) in +300.
    Completed MPE and founded city on desert island (continent 14) in +340.
    Mike's built in +620.
    Change to Republic in +680.
    Leo's Built in +880.
    Magellan's completed and founded city on grassland island (continent 12) in +1160.
    Newton's built in +1300.
    Democracy established in 1340.
    Land on Continent 1 in +1380.
    Found first city on Continent 1 in +1400.
    Railroad in +1670.
    First foreign delivery in +1760.
     
  2. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Thanks for the update haleewud. I updated the comparison responses accordingly.

    Interesting Milestones. Here are mine (I have only played to +1550):
    Founded city on jungle island (continent 16) in +60 Ali: +420
    Founded city on swamp island (continent 15) in +80 (city square was irrigated first). Ali: +100
    Founded city on Plains Island (continent 13) in +300. Ali: +540
    Completed MPE and founded city on desert island (continent 14) in +340. Ali: Marco in +100, desert island in +1040
    Mike's built in +620. Ali: +440
    Change to Republic in +680. Ali: -625 (I skipped Monarchy)
    Leo's Built in +880. Ali: +1500
    Magellan's completed and founded city on grassland island (continent 12) in +1160. Ali: Magellan in +1200, grass island in +1220
    Newton's built in +1300. Ali: I let English take this one.
    Democracy established in 1340. Ali: +1540
    Land on Continent 1 in +1380. Ali: +580 (2 explorers)
    Found first city on Continent 1 in +1400. Ali: +620
    Railroad in +1670. Ali: not yet
    First foreign delivery in +1760 Ali: not yet

    You obviously pushed for expansion while I pushed for wonders. Between +1 and +500 I built only 3 new cities as I was pumping out vans to build Marco and Michelangelo. That is still the case as I am in a tight race with English over Copernicus.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2018
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    +1 to +500

    This was a period of wonder building above all else. I was in a tight race for Marco. Then switched to badly needed Michelangelo (no race). I had given up on Copernicus. English were the only one with Astronomy (and its prerequisites) and they switched wonder production to Copernicus in -100 when Romans beat them to Hanging Gardens. They would not trade those techs and there was no way I could even enter the race let alone beat them. Then in +140 came the delightful news of English abandoning Copernicus. I immediately got the techs out of them despite the fact that this slowed down my research goal of Monotheism. That was a very wise and timely decision as in 420 they restarted Copernicus. I should finish it in +680 and there is no way I can speed that up short of cash infusion. That and the need for units and harbors is why my tax rate is maximized at 80%.

    +0020 Nomad founds Shantung on forest island. Nomad from swamp hut. This is unbelievable.
    +0060 First structure built: courthouse in Hangchow (original intent was harbor, but this pays for itself and will be useful down the line).
    +0080 English switch to and build Colossus. Zulu switch to Great Wall. I could have lost Marco this turn.
    +0100 Marco built. French switch to Great Wall. My power is Supreme?! How can that be when my largest city is size 2? Rivals have 3-5 cities each. None of them seem to have contact with any other ones. These likely mean that they have not gotten on the continent yet.

    Rivals each have 3-9 techs I do not have for a total of 14! My priority right now is Monotheism for Michelangelo. No one has that but they do have Mysticism and Polytheism. I need Masonry before I can exchange with Zulu who are the only one with Polytheism and are building the Great Wall.

    Literacy, Trade, Republic -> Roman (5) -> peace, Masonry, Ceremonial Burial, maps
    Mapmaking, Republic -> Spanish (1) -> peace, Mysticism, maps
    Mapmaking, Republic, Writing -> Zulu (2) -> peace, Polytheism, Bridge Building, maps
    Republic, Trade -> English (4) -> peace, maps (no tech exchange due to Copernicus)
    Icy French (3) demand Literacy and declare war
    Republic, Mysticism, Bridge Building -> Mongol (0) -> peace, maps

    English are the only ones on the continent (2 cities). Others do not have even have units there though Romans have a trireme on the way. 3-city French are unlikely to be there as well. This means getting a boat up there with a couple of explorers should become a priority.
    Nomad founds Chinan on the swamp island. Nomad from hut on jungle island. Wow! T1L4S5
    +0140 English abandon Copernicus! Writing, Literacy -> English (3) -> Seafaring, Astronomy, maps.
    +0160 -> Math. Bridge Building -> English -> Math.
    +0180 -> Philosophy.
    +0300 Philosophy -> Monotheism -> Medicine. T6L4S0
    +0320 English develop Philosophy! Zulu build Great Wall. French abandon.
    +0420 English restart Copernicus. I have 3 vans on their way and one more ready in a few turns.
    Math, Seafaring, philosophy -> Spanish (2) -> Iron Working, Wheel, maps
    Monotheism, Bridge Building -> Roman -> Banking, maps
    Wheel -> English (6) -> University, maps
    Philosophy, University, Wheel, Trade -> Zulu -> Construction, maps
    Romans and Zulu have joined the English on the continent.
    Nomad founds Kaifeng in jungle island. Nomad from jungle hut. To what I owe this luck?
    +0440 Nanking builds Michelangelo. T3L7S0
    +0460 2 cities celebrate.
    +0480 Each city grows by 1 and can no longer grow. T8L0S2

    Status at +500
    Population: 0.49M; Cities: 15; Techs: 25; Government: Republic
    Gold: 29; Cost: 5; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco, Michelangelo
    Units: 8 settlers (2 None), 1 Warriors, 4 Triremes, 2 vans, 2 explorers
    Goals: Expansion in remaining southern islands, Copernicus, exploring the continent (2 explorers are on route and will land on one of the small islands just south of the continent next turn)
    Footprint: 2 cities on glacier, 4 on tundra, 3 on hill, 4 on forest, 1 on swamp, 1 on jungle. 2 settlers just landed on plains island.
    Roman: 5 cities, 21 techs; Hanging Gardens
    Zulu: 4 cities, 20 techs; Great Wall
    French: 3 cities, 11 techs; Pyramids
    Spanish: 3 cities, 14 techs
    English: 7 cities, 22 techs; Colossus
    Mongol: 3 cities, 16 techs;
     
  4. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Florida
    In my game, the Zulus discovered Astronomy in +640 and started to build Copernicus. They wouldn't trade while they were building the wonder. I didn't start researching Astronomy until +840. I was still working on it when Zimbabwe built Copernicus in +960. I did immediately trade for Astronomy in +960. This allowed me to change to Navigation and actually discover it in +980 (all my triremes upgraded to caravel since Leo's was active).

    Here is my log entry from +340 when I completed MPE. Techs listed after each AI are the ones I need. My tech cost before the trades was 195 according to my log.

    +340 Beijing completes MPE, population reaches 500K
    Romans - 287 gold, 3 cities, 11 tech (Const, IW, Mason, WC), Despotism
    Zulus - 386 gold, 4 cities, 12 tech (Const, HBR, Mason, Math, Poly, Wheel), Despotism
    French - 282 gold, 4 cities, 12 tech (Const, HBR, Lit, Mason, Rep), Despotism
    Spanish - 516 gold, 6 cities, 10 tech (HBR, IW, Poly, WC), Despotism
    English - 647 gold, 7 cities, 13 tech (Const, Eng, HBR, Mason, Wheel), Despotism
    Mongols - 625 gold, 4 cities, 12 tech (Const, Eng, HBR, Mason, WC, Wheel), Despotism
    Give English Writing (6), Peace, Trade with English Seaf -> Eng, give Pott, exchange Maps
    Trade with Spanish (4) Seaf -> Poly, Peace, give CoL and Writing, exchange Maps
    Trade with French (3) Trade -> Lit, Peace, give Mon + MM, exchange Maps
    Give Zulus (2) MM + Myst, Peace, exchange Maps,
    Trade with Romans (0) Lit -> Mason, Peace, Give Trade, Mon and MM, exchange Maps
    Trade with Mongols (1) MM -> Const, Give Mon, Lit and Trade, exchange Maps
    Tech Cost is 324, Macao founded at 49,187,14
     
  5. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    +500 to +1000

    This period was about exploring the big continent and wonder races. My incredibly good hut luck in this game continued at the early of part of this period. To start, I got an advanced tribe on the small island just south of the continent. After my two explorers landed on the continent, 5 of the first 6 huts gave me advanced tribes! Within 6 turns of landing, I had 5 cities on the continent. I was counting on some advanced tribes which is why I sent only 2 explorers up there and no settlers. But this was way beyond my expectation. After that my hut luck ran out. One hut gave a unit, another gold, and a third one tech, but twice I got barbarians that killed both my explorers. Those barbarians and others let loose by rivals who were there before I, are roaming the continent. Several times so far I have lost cities to barbarians which in every case I have managed to bribe back. By +1400 my cities on the continent are busy protecting themselves and accomplishing little else.

    I was lucky I won the race for Copernicus by buying the last 2 shields after I got the message that English have almost completed it. They switched to Newton and though I could have beat them to that as well at great cost I decided not to.

    +0520 Advanced tribe founds Kish on island 11.
    +0540 Ningpo founded on plains island. Theory of Gravity from Swamp hut. I usually get a lot of tech from hut. This game has been the opposite and this is the first such instance. This was the last hut south of the continent.
    +0560 Paoting founded on plains island.
    +0580 2 explorers land on the continent.
    +0600 T6L2S2
    +0620 Unbelievable hut luck continues: Advanced tribe founds Shush on the southern shore of the continent. 100g from hut.
    +0660 English have nearly completed Copernicus. Mine is only 2 shields short which I happily purchase. Advanced tribes found Shushtar and Dezful.
    +0680 English switch to Newton. They got Theory of Gravity from a hut like I did. I do not think I can beat them to that one with just one van on hand.
    +0700 Advanced tribes found Behbahan and Izeh. Barbarian horseman appears between Dezful and Izeh.
    +0720 Barbarian horseman captures Dezful for 2g.
    +0740 Yangchow founded on the jungle island. Kish relocated one tile to the 4-special location. 25g and 8 barbarian horsemen from huts.
    +0760 Barbarians kill my explorer and 3 of them move towards Behbahan which rushes a legion for protection. Kashghar founded on the swamp island.
    +0780 Behbahan legion kills barbarian horseman. Dezful bribed back for 26g. Got a horseman. Economics from hut.
    +0820 Kuhsar founded at the 4-special site on mountain island. Legion from hut. Kuchak founded on the jungle island. Astronomy, Economics -> Roman -> Medicine.
    +0840 -> Chemistry. 5 barbarian horsemen from hut.
    +0860 English have nearly completed Newton. Barbarians kill my explorer. Romans build Great Library; French abandon. I have 186 shields accumulated towards Newton. To steal it from the English, I have to pay 856g. I have 124g and 920g worth of infrastructure. So this is possible, but I do not think it is worth it. I have no libraries or universities. Newton will contribute nothing till those are done. Furthermore, research is not a top priority right now and my science rate is pretty low. Getting Newton will drain my resources with no advantage till much later in the game. I will switch to another wonder. The choices right now are Shakespeare and Adam Smith neither of which offer much advantage yet. I will wait for the crucial Magellan and Leo but may grab Adam Smith and Shakespeare if a rival tries to grab them.
    +0880 English build Newton. Barbarian horseman captures Shush and take 2g. Dezful's horseman kills approaching barbarian horseman. Sardasht founded on the plains island.
    +0900 Zulu develop Engineering and start King Richard's.
    +0920 English develop Navigation and start Magellan only to immediately abandon it. If they do not trade for it, I have to provoke them into declaring war and their bribe one of their cities on the continent. Legion on hill barely survives barbarian horseman and turns vet. English demand Mono and declare war. Dashtestaan founded on the plains island.
    +0940 Shush bribed back for 52g. Got a horseman.
    +0980 T4L4S2
    +1000 Diplomat runs into English crusader. Republic -> French -> cease fire

    Status at +1000
    Population: 1.27M; Cities: 29; Techs: 28; Government: Republic
    Gold: 0; Cost: 17; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus
    Units: 12 settlers (2 None), 2 Phalanx, 2 Legions, 2 horsemen, 6 Triremes, 2 diplomats, 8 vans
    Goals: Expansion in remaining southern islands, expansion and hut hunting on the continent, bribing an English city on the continent to get Navigation (2 diplomats are on their way with 2 soldiers behind them but one will be killed next turn), trade between north and south (2 Silk caravans just left the forest island heading north), Magellan, Leo, Adam Smith, Shakespeare
    Footprint: 2 cities on glacier, 4 on tundra, 3 on hill, 1 on mountain, 4 on forest, 2 on swamp, 3 on jungle, 4 on plains, (2 settlers are on their way to desert island); 1 on island 11, 5 on the continent.
    Roman: 7 cities, 31 techs; Hanging Gardens, Great Library
    Zulu: 6 cities, 25 techs; Great Wall
    French: 3 cities, 14 techs; Pyramids
    Spanish: 5 cities, 19 techs
    English: 9 cities, 29 techs; Colossus, Newton; war with me
    Mongol: 3 cities, 25 techs;
     
  6. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    +1000 to +1500

    During this period my cities on the continent were struggling to protect themselves against barbarians and some minor warfare with the English. They were producing military units, explorers to replace those killed by barbarians, diplomats to bribe back cities captured by barbarians, and settlers for connecting the cities with roads. Continent huts gave me 2 new cities, some gold, some units, one junk tech, and plenty of barbarians.

    Meanwhile, down south, expansion continued but emphasis was on infrastructure and wonders. First trade route came along in 1240. Some domestic trade was between south and north and some among the southern islands.

    +1020 English crusader kills my diplomat and is killed by my horseman. Jangali founded on the jungle island.
    +1040 Chemistry -> Engineering. T6L4S0. Zabol founded on the desert island. Second diplomat runs into second English crusader and backs up.
    +1060 Vet legion on river survives English crusader. 100g from hut.
    +1080 100g from hut.
    +1100 English trade Navigation to Mongols for Medicine. Chemistry -> Mongol -> Navigation. 8 barbarians from hut. Horseman kills English crusader; they must have gotten all of these from huts as they do not have monotheism.
    +1120 Barbarians kill my explorer. Warrior Code from hut. Advanced tribe founds Hoveizeh with granary, temple, and marketplace. English horseman bribed for 65g to save Hoveizeh.
    +1140 Philosophy -> French -> maps.
    +1180 Roman crusader expels my diplomat all the way to Beijing. Shanghai builds Shakespeare. Crusader from hut.
    +1200 Magellan built. Crusader from hut. Horse kills English catapult. 8 barbarian horsemen from hut. horseman kills one.
    +1220 English kill a Horseman, barbarians another. Babol founded on the grass island. Legion from hut.
    +1240 Domestic offshore Copper for 102 from the plains island to Shanghai on tundra island establishes the first trade route. Silk from forest island to island 11 for 240.
    +1280 Accepted English offer of peace. Domestic deliveries for 117, 201.
    +1300 Shushtar settler killed by barbarian horseman. Shush phalanx survives barbarian horseman and turns vet.
    +1320 Wandering barbarian horseman captures undefended Izeh. This is a disaster and biggest loss of the game by far: lost a settler, a diplomat, a phalanx, a vet legion, and 2g. This makes my weak defenses even weaker. Shush vet phalanx survives yet another barbarian horseman. Shushtar which had a trireme and a van in it, loses the van to a barbarian horseman. Why did the van defend instead of the vet trireme? Makes no sense. 3 more barbarian horsemen stop by my cities. English stop by Hoveizeh, but back up rather than attack. Hoveizeh rushes city walls for next turn. English diplomat near Hoveizeh expelled. Vet trireme kills both barbarian horsemen at Shushtar. Legion kills barbarian horseman at Behbahan and turns vet.
    +1340 Behbahan survives barbarian horseman. There are no more barbarians in sight. English put a catapult next to Hoveizeh and remove it when I ask them. Derakhtzar founded on the forest island.
    +1360 100g from hut. Izeh bribed back for 26g. Got a horseman. Domestic deliveries for 47, 90, 110. My beaker box is now full. Kuhpaayeh founded on the mountain island.
    +1400 Zulu build Sun Tzu. Literacy, Navigation -> Zulu -> Engineering. Advanced tribe founds Rasht of size 2 with granary, temple, and marketplace. Legion from hut.
    +1420 -> Invention.
    +1440 Invention -> Democracy. Zahedan founded on the desert island. 5 barbarian horsemen from hut kill my explorer the next turn.
    +1460 Domestic delivery for 150.
    +1480 200g from hut.
    +1500 Romans start King Richard's. Leo built. All triremes are upgraded to caravel. Crusader from hut. Domestic deliveries for 270, 174. Invention -> Roman -> Sanitation.

    Status at +1500
    Population: 6.39M; Cities: 37; Techs: 34; Government: Republic
    Gold: 121; Cost: 53; Trade routes: 20D0F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan, Shakespeare, Leo
    Units: 22 settlers (2 None), 1 Phalanx, 1 archer, 3 Legions, 2 horsemen, 3 crusaders, 6 caravels, 1 diplomats, 8 vans, 2 explorers
    Goals: Expansion in remaining southern islands, expansion and hut hunting on the continent, trade between north and south, Democracy, Magnetism, Explosives, Bach, Adam Smith
    Footprint: 2 cities on glacier, 4 on tundra, 3 on hill, 2 on mountain, 5 on forest, 2 on swamp, 4 on jungle, 4 on plains, 2 on desert, 1 on grassland, 1 on island 11, 7 on the continent.
    Roman: 9 cities, 38 techs; Hanging Gardens, Great Library
    Zulu: 7 cities, 31 techs; Great Wall, Sun Tzu
    French: 3 cities, 19 techs; Pyramids
    Spanish: 6 cities, 21 techs
    English: 11 cities, 34 techs; Colossus, Newton; allied with Mongols
    Mongol: 4 cities, 31 techs;
     
  7. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    In retrospect, I was very lucky with my initial hut pops on the big continent. Pretty much all techs. Had a dearth of cities on the mainland, but Pyramids should help with that. What I needed most next was techs to get to Democracy/Explosives ASAP, as Engineers are so much better for rapid expansion than Settlers. I was able to achieve that within this post. Had my tech-heavy hut pops not happened, I very likely would not have gotten Explosives for a very long time.

    Interturn: ROMANS DEVELOP MAGNETISM. IMMEDIATELY WANT TO TRADE WITH ME. Thank God.

    1510 AD: >Atomic Theory is only choice. Pise built. Hut: Crusaders. T3L0S7.

    1520 AD: Atomic Theory > Invention.

    1530 AD: REVOLUTION. T4l6S0. Dublin built.

    1540 AD: T5L0S5 for some Temples. REPUBLIC. Will get Adam`s next turn as I don`t even have the tech for Leo`s. Toronto built. 3 black hats in multiple cities… techrate 10 turns at max. Which is disappointing. Melbourne built. Hut: Invention. And there it is! Will still stick to Adam Smith`s as Leo`s is not yet contested. Pretty far away from Explosives as well. Sydney built. Hut: Crusaders. Hut: AT of Beijing II.

    1550 AD: > Democracy. Lose 2 explorers to no shield support, mistake. TSINGTAO ADAM SMITH`s. T8L0S2, random Barb near a city of mine. Will lose a city, and need to bribe it back. Shanghai II built. Canton II built.

    Interturn: Barb horse moves away. Bribed it next turn afterwards.

    1560 AD: T2L0S8. Hut: BARBS.

    1570 AD: Nankin II built on jungle island

    Interturn: Sneaky Barbarians appear out of the darkness to seize Beijing II. Size3 city too. This is a setback.

    1580 AD: Kill Barb in BeijingII (city size1, wah) Kill another barb with Crusader. Tsingtao built. Hut: AT of Xinjian II.

    1590 AD: Liberate BeijingII. 2 vans in Tsingtao, 161s left. T4L0S6.

    1600 AD: T2L0S8. Hut: 100g.

    1610 AD: Chengdu II built. Hangzhou II built. Tientsin II built.

    1620 AD: Tatung II built. Hut: 100g. Oedo year 1660 AD.

    1630 AD: Democracy > Steam Engine. Macao II built.

    Interturn: English declare WAR when I refuse to give Democracy. Lose a Diplomat to English.

    1640 AD: Kill English diplomat. Anyang II built.

    1650 AD: Hut: BARBS. Blunder into Zulu Isandhlwhana, far away from capitol, Inviting subversion target. Shantung II built. REVOLUTION. T0L6S4.

    1660 AD: Lose pop in Shantung due to lack of food (Anarchy…) DEMOCRACY. Hut: 100g. Techrate 7 turns, disappointing. Decide to celebrate, T1L5S4 thanks to no corruption. Not going to be very efficient but we`ll do what we can. (Yeah. Democracy, no corruption. Real nice freakin’ realism you got there, Sid.)

    1670 AD: Various celebrations. Peace w/English at the cost of Democracy/Atomic Theory. They are pissing me off. Also, attitudes are going to go south at 1750 AD automatically… should prepare defenses. Chinan II built.

    1680 AD: Pop goes from 2.9 to 4.3 million citizens. Kaifeng II built.

    1690 AD: TSINGTAO LEO`S. English swap to SoL. Pop goes from 4.3 to 5.7 million citizens. Ningpo II built.

    1700 AD: Steam Engine > Railroad. Probably should prioritized Gunpowder since I apparently don`t need CfC to celebrate in the very short term. At least I can build Darwin`s. Paoting II built.

    Interturn: English develop Gunpowder. Should I even try…

    1710 AD: Pop goes from 7.3 to 8.9 million citizens. Yangchow II built.

    Interturn: Romans take Zulu city of Mpondo.

    1720 AD: Pop goes from 8.9 to 10.03 million citizens. Many cities size8, stopping now. T4L2S4, many cities need Temples or roads – time to raise cash. English: trade Steam Engine for Gunpowder. Naples II built. Issos II built.

    1730 AD: Nothing of note. Just need to buy a few more vans in Hill island for Darwin`s.

    1740 AD: Cunaxa II built. Cremona II built. T6L2S2, will dump 6 vans for Darwin`s next turn and RB the rest.

    Interturn: English build SoL.

    1750 AD: Railroad > Explosives. Darwin`s cued for next turn. T8L2S0. Aaaaaand everyone is now Icy! Things are going to get interesting.



    STATUS AT 1750AD: (End of 201st turn)


    Population: 10.000.000 Cities: 64 Government: Democracy Total advances: 46 (researching Explosives)
    Gold: 69 T7L0S3 Income/Cost per turn: 57 income, 6 cost. Production: 140MT Trade: 945arrows Wonders: Pyramids, LH, Marco`s, Mikes, JSB, Mag`s, Adam Smith, Leo`s, Darwin next turn. Other civs have HG, GW, Colossus, GL, KRC, Cope`s, Shakes, SoL.


    GOALS: Arm up. Get Explosives, Genetic Engineering, build CfC. Develop roads and make another big push for the landgrab. Once CfC is done, consider celebrating again. Subvert opportune cities where advisable. Not looking for much yet now.
     
  8. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Florida
    This will cover +1 thru +1000. It was a slow period. Only 6 cities were created during this time and I had not ventured north of the plains and desert islands. I did make a few domestic deliveries. I also completed 3 wonders (MPE, Mike's and Leo's).

    +60 Hangchow founded at 23,215,16
    +80 Writing -> Mysticism (180), Tientsin founded at 5,211,15
    +100 Hut -> 100g, Hut -> Legion, Hut -> Elephant
    +160 Hut -> Nomads
    +200 York builds Colossus
    +240 Mysticism -> HBR (195)
    +300 Tatung founded at 5,185,13
    +340 Beijing completes MPE
    Romans - 287 gold, 3 cities, 11 tech (Const, IW, Mason, WC), Despotism, HG
    Zulus - 386 gold, 4 cities, 12 tech (Const, HBR, Mason, Math, Poly, Wheel), Despotism, Pyramids
    French - 282 gold, 4 cities, 12 tech (Const, HBR, Lit, Mason, Rep), Despotism
    Spanish - 516 gold, 6 cities, 10 tech (HBR, IW, Poly, WC), Despotism
    English - 647 gold, 7 cities, 13 tech (Const, Eng, HBR, Mason, Wheel), Despotism, Colossus
    Mongols - 625 gold, 4 cities, 12 tech (Const, Eng, HBR, Mason, WC, Wheel), Despotism
    Give English Writing (6), Peace, Trade with English Seaf -> Eng, give Pott, Maps
    Trade with Spanish (4) Seaf -> Poly, Peace, give CoL and Writing, Maps
    Trade with French (3) Trade -> Lit, Peac, give Mon + MM, Maps
    Give Zulus (2) MM + Myst, Peace, Maps,
    Trade with Romans (0) Lit -> Mason, Peace, Give Trade, Mon and MM, Maps
    Trade with Mongols (1) MM -> Const, Give Mon, Lit and Trade, Maps
    Tech Cost is 324, Macao founded at 49,187,14
    +380 Paris builds GL, Shanghai Temple (2nd building)
    +400 Trade with French (1) Seaf -> HBR (342)
    +420 start Philo
    +480 Ulundi builds GW
    +500 Philo -> Mono -> Invention (567), Trade with Zulus (3) Philo (GL) -> Math (GL) (616), maps

    stats at +500
    Pop.: .65M; Cities: 11; Techs: 21; Gov: Monarchy; Gold: 184; Trade Routes: 0D/0F; Cost/Turn: 2;
    Units: 1 settler, 26 Warriors, 1 phalanx, 1 Legion, 1 Elephant, 5 Trireme, 10 caravan
    Wonders: LH, MPE,

    Romans - 307 gold, 3 cities, 16 tech (IW, WC), Republic, HG
    Zulus - 426 gold, 4 cities, 16 tech (WC, Wheel), Despotism, GW
    French - 288 gold, 4 cities, 19 tech (Rep, WC), Republic, Pyramids, GL
    Spanish - 559 gold, 6 cities, 13 tech (IW, WC), Despotism
    English - 698 gold, 7 cities, 15 tech (Wheel), Despotism, Colossus
    Mongols - 683 gold, 4 cities, 17 tech (WC, Wheel), Monarchy

    +600 English get IW (GL) from Spanish Const, Peace, get Poly (GL) for Eng (GL), Hut -> Legion
    +620 Beijing builds Mike's, Anyang founded at 28,212,16
    +640 Zulus Astronomy, start Copes
    +660 Hut -> 25
    +680 Nottingham completes KRC, Trade with Romans (0) Philo -> Republic (594), REVOLUTION
    +700 Republic established, T/L/S = 0/7/3
    +720 Mongols and English declare war, Xinjian Silver
    +740 Spanish get Curr from English for Pot, Beijing Copper
    +760 Shantung founded at 60,212,17
    +780 Zulus acquire Mono (GL), Shanghai Silk
    +800 Tientsin Spice, Hangchow Gems, Chengdu Hides, Nanking Salt, Beijing Copper to Shanghai 164 (first delivery)
    +820 Macao Harbor, Xinjian Harbor
    +840 Romans Bridge Building, Invention -> Astronomy (672)
    +880 Canton completes Leo's, Chengdu Hides to Beijing 68, T/L/S = 0/3/7
    +900 English Math
    +920 English Lit, French Banking, Shanghai Silk to Hangchow 189
    +940 T/L/S = 7/3/0
    +960 Zimbabwe builds Copernicus, Zulus switch to Oracle, Trade with French (2) Invention -> Banking (700), Trade with Zulus (1) Invention -> Astronomy (GL - 780), Hangchow Gems (U) to Nanking 52
    +980 start Navigation, Navigation -> Physics (810), Xinjian Silver to Nanking 157, Give English (5) Inv+Rep+Math, maps, give Mongols (3) 50g+Inv+Math+Rep+Philo+Banking, Maps, Tech Cost 729
    +1000 Zulus University, Shantung Silver

    stats at +1000
    Pop.: 1.79M; Cities: 13; Techs: 26; Gov: Republic; Gold: 464; Trade Routes: 10D/0F; Cost/Turn: 5;
    Units: 3 settler, 11 Warriors, 1 Crusader, 5 Caravel, 8 caravan
    Wonders: LH, MPE, Mike's, Leo's

    Romans - 341 gold, 3 cities, 19 tech (BB, IW, WC), Republic, HG
    Zulus - 435 gold, 5 cities, 20 tech (Univ, WC, Wheel), Despotism, GW, Copernicus
    French - 282 gold, 4 cities, 26 tech (IW, WC), Republic, Pyramids, GL
    Spanish - 733 gold, 10 cities, 17 tech (IW, WC), Despotism
    English - 1055 gold, 10 cities, 23 tech (IW, WC, Wheel), Despotism, Colossus, KRC
    Mongols - 730 gold, 4 cities, 23 tech (WC, Wheel), Monarchy
     
  9. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    +1500 to +1750

    This was the period of vertical growth under democracy and expansion on the continent. Up to this point my cities on the continent were in survival mode. Two thirds of the cities added during this period were on the continent. Before this period I was often behind in tech and racing for wonders. By the end of this period I am significantly ahead of rivals in tech and ready to grab wonders before others can bring about a significant challenge.

    +1510 Invention, Trade -> Mongol (1) -> Physics, maps. Legion from hut. Domestic delivery for 135. Lut founded on the desert island.
    +1520 Ahvaz founded on the continent. It is the first city there made with a settler. The first city form an Advanced tribe was 46 turns ago! Amol founded on grassland. Domestic delivery for 435. This puts me 234 beakers over what is needed for the next discovery. Fortunately, my science rate is zero and I can control when I get Democracy.
    +1530 Beijing employs a scientist.
    +1540 Democracy -> Gunpowder. Democracy -> Roman -> Theology, maps. Demanded tribute from all others: Zulu gave Monarchy which messes up tech progression, French and Mongols declare war, Spanish -> 400g, English -> 75g. Democracy established. T1L4S5. Advanced tribe founds Lahijan of size 3 with a temple. Domestic delivery for 695.
    +1550 Gunpowder -> Metallurgy. Kharg founded on island 10. Domestic delivery for 99.
    +1560 Zulu start Adam Smith. 8 barbarian horsemen from hut kill my explorer the next turn. Domestic deliveries for 226, 155. T3L4S3
    +1570 Metallurgy -> Explosives.
    +1580 Bach built.
    +1590 Saari founded on grass island. 100g from hut.
    +1610 Wandering barbarian kills my explorer. Explosives -> Conscription. Domestic delivery for 176.
    +1620 Adam Smith built. Zulu switch to King Richard. Domestic delivery for 145. Andimeshk founded on the continent.
    +1630 AmirKola founded on grass island.
    +1640 Conscription -> Steam Engine. Khorramshahr and Abadan founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 567, 516. Reached peace with French and Mongols. T2L4S4
    +1650 English build King Richards; others abandon. I shall make it obsolete in a few turns. Steam Engine -> Railroad.
    +1660 Anzali and Tangestan founded on the continent.
    +1670 Lahijan survives barbarian horseman. Railroad -> Industrialization. Fuman founded on the continent.
    +1680 T4L4S2
    +1690 Industrialization -> Atomic Theory. Domestic deliveries for 364, 512. Karun and Bostaan founded on the continent.
    +1700 Atomic Theory -> Corporation.
    +1710 Domestic deliveries for 350, 394, 200.
    +1720 Corporation -> Fundamentalism. 100g from hut. T0L4S6
    +1730 Zulu crusader sneak attacks and kills an engineer. Stopped short of the next tech. T6L4S0. Crusader kills Zulu crusader and turns vet. English remove their crusader next to my city when asked.
    +1740 Fundamentalism -> Genetic Engineering. Domestic deliveries for 240, 578, 170. Shadegan founded on the continent. T2L4S4
    +1750 Genetic Engineering -> Refining. 100g from hut. Domestic deliveries for 656.

    Status at +1750
    Population: 33.3M; Cities: 53; Techs: 49; Government: Democracy
    Gold: 2264; Cost: 92; Trade routes: 58D0F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan, Shakespeare, Leo, Bach, Adam Smith
    Units: 22 settlers (2 None), 1 Phalanx, 1 archer, 3 Legions, 2 horsemen, 3 crusaders, 6 caravels, 1 diplomats, 8 vans, 2 explorers
    Goals: 1-2 more cities on southern islands, expansion and hut hunting on the continent, extensive road and rail network on the continent, trade between north and south, Magnetism (waiting for English to finish it up), offshore platforms, superhighways, Cure, UN, SETI.
    Footprint: 2 cities on glacier, 4 on tundra, 3 on hill, 2 on mountain, 5 on forest, 2 on swamp, 4 on jungle, 4 on plains, 3 on desert, 4 on grassland, 1 on island 10, 1 on island 11, 18 on the continent.
    Roman: 10 cities, 43 techs; Hanging Gardens, Great Library
    Zulu: 8 cities, 34 techs; Great Wall, Sun Tzu; war with me
    French: 3 cities, 26 techs; Pyramids
    Spanish: 8 cities, 25 techs
    English: 11 cities, 38 techs; Colossus, Newton, King Richard; allied with Mongols
    Mongol: 5 cities, 38 techs;
     
  10. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    I didn't feel like playing for a couple of weeks, but I picked up the game yesterday. I assume it is ok to reload in case you overload the beaker box, as well as to reload in case the go-to-command was not processed as desired.
    But that will happen later, when our spaceship will be under construction. So far, it seems my game was significantly different, because of no MPE and a rather early Fundamentalism. It was during this period that I had learned something that I really would have liked to know before:
    Spoiler :
    There is no riot factor in communism!

    I then read through the forums and the info was already here...

    Anyhow, here is my log for the next era, it was mainly lateral expansion and some warfare, I had stopped to write down the newly founded cities.

    1510 Want to check out the price for Besancon, but they are Demo! So it's embassy with France instead, ~4 more turns and we should have 4 crusader ready for attack
    1520 Discover Grenoble, we have some crusaders nearby; Hail Zulus, get Bank.+Construction, gift some techs, exchange maps, gamble on techs with England and get wheel (only choice)
    1530 Research chemistry, embassy with England
    (Rome and England at war, might be useful for us)
    1540 200g + adv tribe (size 4, on plains, with nothing but plains around, so double hungry...) hm, maybe we will need some turns of commy for science...
    1550 Astro from hut! Not really what I was hungry for.. Sneak attack French Besancon: They have muscs already, we fail badly! Ouch! So, when the AI has gunpowder and you don't, it is good, you can grab it from them. It is also bad, because they can build musceteers that are good at defending against crusaders... We will go for some english cities first, they are weakly defended (warrior, archer, legion), try attack on Grenoble soom with 5 cruses; give Astro to Zulus (they are researching and alredy have chiv)
    1560 Navigation from hut
    1580 Attack and capture Grenoble (3 crusers lost during attack), 2g + Invention, French revolt and hail us, they demand 650 for cease fire, no; 100g + 8 barb horses from huts, move 6 crusaders close to english Warwick
    (English demand retreat, we ignore, they declare war)
    1590 50+100 from huts; Warwick captured, 60g, no casualties (on our side at least)
    (Some troubles with England and barbs)
    1600 Leonardo built; Fight off english and barbs, hail romans for tech trade, get engineering
    (2 crusaders killed by England)
    1610 kill 2 english crusaders, adv. tribe on plains (at least 1 wheat in sight); Get Feud. from Zulus, not sure what will be blocked next
    (French kill a musc, now our dip is in danger; not quite made it to Chemistry)
    1620 Bribe french knight+crusader
    (Crusaders killed by English + Barbs, French switch government)
    1630 Chem->Theo (If we research Gunp and acquire it from France, both Theo and explosives would be blocked); Tribe to bribe Besancon and they are Demo again! Args! Time to think again... They have two techs we do not, Chiv and Gunp., researching Leadership
    (English kill a crusader, French almost done with GW)
    1640 50g from hut, this would have been a nice city site
    (Dip killed by French)
    1650 Delivery for 90; Capture Dover 27, Liverpool 26
    1660 Move troops in position for Hastings
    (English and French kill a crusader)
    1670 Capture Hastings 43
    (Ouch!!! English explorer walks into an undefended city, we also lose a settler... At least they take Nav., were researching but I couldn't gift because of war)
    1680 Demanded gold among homeland islands for 72, a little disappointing; Run into spanish settler, sign peace, gift some techs, exchange maps, not much to get from them; Thinking: Science is taking way too long, revolution after some re-homings
    1690 Become Communism, wow, we don't even need luxuries!! Gues I should have switched a long time ago...; Capture Canterbury 31; deliveries for 129, 94
    1700 Bribe Norwich for 174, get 32 back; 11 units (3 vets) ready to attack Avignon next turn, if that shouldn't do, dips are standing by to grab techs
    (England Copernicus)
    1710 Theo->Gunpowder; Spy on Avignon: 3 muscs behind city walls...we pull back, need more units and even then... hail them, cease fire, peace, demand tribute, they give gunpowder! Wow! That went really well! :)
    1720 Researching Explosives; Lose vet crusader attacking Oxford (Archer behind city walls), bribe the city instead for 255 (88 back)
    (Mongols take a Zulu city on main continent)
    1730 Magellan built (Bach turned out not so urgent, Communism obviously has a low riot factor); Capture English Nishapur 47, no more English cities on main continet
    (Sign cease fire with England, they wouldn't sign peace)
    1740 Not quite made it to Explosives; Open embassy with Spain
    1750 Explosives(Finally!)->Economics; deliveries 126, 90

    Stats at 1750AD:
    pop.: 4.7M; Cities: 97; techs: 38; gold: 1475; Gov.: Commy; wonders: LH, Michelangelo, Magellan, Leo, SoL; TR: 13D/1F
    units: 37 eng, 37 def., 27off.,6 dip, 17 van, 1 explorer, 7 boat
    Goals: Expand, trade, Bach+Adam Smith, embassies with Mongols + Rome


    So by 1750, I was way behind on techs (of course, no MPE and Fundy), but I was way ahead on cities! Not sure how this will turn out...
     
  11. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    It is OK to reload any time you make an inadvertent mistake: hitting the wrong button, ending the turn too early (before taking some already planned action), go-to command malfunction, ...
    If you reload, you have to carefully recreate the chance outcomes. For example if you got 100g from a hut and later in the turn you hit the wrong button and now wish to reload, you have to keep trying till you get 100g from that hut again. Same thing with battle outcomes.

    I knew that in Communism, unlike other forms of government, the rate of corruption does not increase with distance from capital and it is instead uniform. But I did not know it does not have riot factor as in when the red heads and black heads appear.
     
  12. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Florida
    Here is the next part of my log. I didn't really do a lot over the next bunch of turns. Only 5 new cities. I did make it to the big continent in +1380 (first city in +1400). I did quite a bit of domestic trade. Some were very low results. I was able to pull of the discover Railroad, build Darwin's on the same turn.

    +1020 Canton Harbor
    +1040 Chinan founded at 79,185,13, Canton Copper to Tientsin 36
    +1060 Trade with Romans Inv -> IW (784),
    +1080 Mongols change to Republic, Bapedi builds Oracle
    +1100 Spanish and French declare War, Spanish capture Tours (Math), Physics -> Magnetism (812)
    +1120 Mongols offer 350g+alliance against English, accepted, Shanghai beads to Beijing 86
    +1140 8 vans to Beijing
    +1160 Romans start Sun Tzu, Beijing completes Magellan's, Shantung Silver to Hangchow 95, Kaifeng founded at 54,168,12
    +1200 Magnetism -> Democracy (868)
    +1220 Shanghai Library
    +1260 Pay Zulus (1) 150, Peace, Trade Nav (GL) -> ToG (960), give Republic, Maps, Give Nav (896) to Mongols, then IW, Physics (GL) and Astro (864)
    +1280 Beijing Library, 8 vans to Beijing
    +1300 Beijing builds Newton's
    +1320 Zulus IW from Spanish for Nav
    +1340 French acquire Myst from Spanish, Democracy -> University (924), establish Democracy, Trade with Zulus (1) Trade -> University (GL - 952), Tsingtao Coal to Xinjian 145
    +1360 start Medicine
    +1380 Spanish get Inv from English for Nav, Canton Coal to Shanghai 160
    +1400 Ningpo founded at 4,100,1
    +1420 French offer 150 for alliance against Spanish, accepted
    +1440 Mongols abandon SunTzu, Medicine -> Gunpowder (1080), Meet English (5) near Ningpo, cancel Mongol alliance, give Physics to English, CF, give BB and Astro to English, maps Hut -> Crusader
    +1460 Spanish and English cancel PT
    +1480 Antium completes Sun Tzu, French lose Marseilles to Spanish (Physics)
    +1500 Bribe Barb Horse 41, Contact English (5) exchange maps

    stats at +1500
    Pop.: 2.89M; Cities: 16; Techs: 35; Gov: Democracy; Gold: 243; Trade Routes: 19D/0F; Cost/Turn: 8;
    Units: 7 settler, 2 Warriors, 1 Horseman, 9 Galleon, 1 Diplomat, 18 caravan
    Wonders: LH, MPE, Mike's, Magellan's, Leo's, Newton's

    Romans - 726 gold, 3 cities, 22 tech (Feud), Republic, HG, SunTzu
    Zulus - 785 gold, 5 cities, 25 tech (Wheel), Republic, GW, Oracle, Copernicus
    French - 252 gold, 4 cities, 33 tech (Feud), Republic, Pyramids, GL
    Spanish - 1065 gold, 14 cities, 22 tech (none), Despotism
    English - 2038 gold, 14 cities, 28 tech (Wheel), Despotism, Colossus, KRC
    Mongols - 472 gold, 4 cities, 28 tech (Feud), Republic


    +1510 English bribe Pamplona
    +1520 English get Mono from Zulus for Banking, Peace, Gunpowder -> Feudalism (1110), Trade with Romans (0), Nav -> Feudalism (1140), Maps, Tientsin Spice to Beijing 258, 6 vans to Beijing, Hut -> Nomads
    +1530 French and English are at war, Start Chemistry, Beijing builds Shake's (WLTPD), Tsingtao Silk to Tatung 234, Beijing Dye to Tatung 208
    +1540 Spanish get Mono from English, Hangchow Harbor, Chengdu Harbor, Chemistry -> Explosives (1209), Chengdu Gold to Tientsin 201
    +1550 English bribe Cordoba, English get Philo from Zulus for CoL, Beijing Aqueduct, Tatung Copper to Hangchow 134
    +1560 French change to Democracy, Macao Spice to Beijing 318, Hut -> 100
    +1570 French get Wheel from Zulus for Physics, Peace, Explosives -> Steam Engine (1240), Beijing University, Xinjian Copper (U) to Tatung 99, Beijing Oil (U) to Tatung 122
    +1580 Mongols get BB from English for Democracy, Peace, Hut -> 100
    +1590 English start SoL, Tientsin Harbor
    +1600 Spanish liberate Cordoba (Wheel), SE -> Theology (1271), Tsingtao Gold to Ningpo 456, Shantung Silk to Macao 114
    +1610 English capture Malaga, Mongols change to Democracy, Hut -> Advanced Tribe -> Paoting (size 3, Temple+MP at 22,86,1)
    +1620 English capture Granada, Romans start SoL, Spanish liberate Malaga (Republic), Theology -> Sanitation (1302), Yangchow founded at 64,166,12
    +1630 Chengdu Spice to Beijing 234, Tatung Copper (U) to Tsingtao 90
    +1640 8 vans to Xinjian
    +1650 Xinjian builds SoL, Romans and English abandon, Sanitation -> Metallurgy (1333), Beijing Gold (U) to Canton 107, Macao Oil (U) to Xinjian 108, Tientsin Dye (U) to Tatung 60, Chengdu Silk to Tatung 294, Hut -> 8 Barb Horse, Bribe Barb Horse 41, kill barb Horse, disband horse
    +1660 English demand cancel of French Alliance, ok, demand SE, no, Diplomat dies to barb Horse, Beijing Sewer, T/L/S = 0/5/5
    +1670 French/Spanish Peace and Alliance against English, Metallurgy -> Railroad (1408)
    +1680 Xinjian Aqueduct, Chinan Coal to Beijing 340, Anyang Spice to Beijing 183
    +1690 Anyang Harbor, Canton Aque, Ningpo Beads to Tientsin 332, 8 vans to Tsingtao
    +1700 RR -> Industry, Hangchow Aque (Zoom to Home changes Tsingtao from Bach's to Darwin), Chengdu Aque, Tsingtao completes Darwin's, Ind -> Electricity -> Economics (1551)
    +1710 Spanish get Gun from French, Spanish change to Republic, Spanish get Astro from French
    +1720 Spanish BB from English, Shantung Gems to Canton 112, Shanghai Salt (U) to Beijing 54
    +1730 1 way Ship Chain from Beijing to Continent 1 completed (12 Transports), T/L/S = 0/3/7,
    +1740 Economics -> Corporation (1584)
    +1750 Spanish get Banking from French

    stats at +1750
    Pop.: 5.63M; Cities: 18; Techs: 47; Gov: Democracy; Gold: 580; Trade Routes: 39D/0F; Cost/Turn: 29;
    Units: 8 Engineers, 2 Musketeers, 18 Transport, 19 caravan
    Wonders: LH, MPE, Mike's, Magellan's, Shake's, Leo's, Newton's, Darwin's, SoL

    Romans - 433 gold, 3 cities, 25 tech (none), Republic, HG, SunTzu
    Zulus - 1004 gold, 6 cities, 30 tech (Wheel), Republic, GW, Oracle, Copernicus
    French - 310 gold, 4 cities, 37 tech (Wheel), Democracy, Pyramids, GL
    Spanish - 799 gold, 12 cities, 28 tech (Wheel), Republic
    English - 1688 gold, 21 cities, 31 tech (Wheel), Despotism, Colossus, KRC
    Mongols - 771 gold, 5 cities, 30 tech (Feud), Democracy
     
  13. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Florida
    I can't believe how far behind in number of cities I am.

    Major has 97 cities, Jokemaster has 64 and Ali has 53. I have a paltry 18.

    The strangest thing to me is Major. He has 97 cities and I have 18. But I have more population and more Tech. Must be a lot of small cities. I guess that is the result of being Fundy for a good portion of the game. I expect him to pull ahead rapidly as his cities start to grow.
     
  14. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    'Tis a pretty interesting game! Everyone (sans haleewud, R.I.P) seems to be fairly equal. I do think however, that Ali would be the one with a slight advantage. He seems to have a better scientific production base than everyone else, and better domestic trade results. I expect him to pull ahead tech-wise during the next period, as I was keeping my taxes high for city bribes/subversals. Not really sure how Ali got such high trade bonuses, but whatevs. It's done already. Just need to wait and see if he can keep up with city expansion speed.

    I actually don't think Major is in as good of a position as haleewud thinks. He does not yet have JSB, so cannot really swap to Democracy to celebrate with his massive amount of cities. (At this amount of cities, it is flat-out required to have both Mikes and JSB to keep a celebration going when a city is surrounded by prairies/built on one and few roads. A single entertainer can do a lot of work, but you need both these WoWs for it to.)
    He also does not have HG, and is a ways away from Cure. My celebrations did not really take off until I got Cfc, and I had Pyramids to help. With how hard Major expanded, it wouldn't surprise me that much to see a high amount of size2- cities that can't celebrate right now, for lack of food.

    The real x-factor here is grigor.. he was way ahead of the others with his successful NONE settler gambit, but we haven't heard of him past 1000 BC! I was fairly surprised to have roughly kept up with Ali, who did that successful gambit as well. Maybe he (grigor) is secretly well ahead of everyone by now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  15. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Yes, most of them were very small at that time. The main continents cities' job was: 1. Build some crusaders/dips (up to ten units do not recquire upkeep) and send them north and 2. Build settlers! Gold comes flowing in in Fundy (Mike's alone generates 3g/city and 4 after Theo, plus high taxes, science is futile, luxuries unneeded when celebrations are useless), so it was heavy expansion in this era. When there were no good city sites around, settlers have started roads and irrigation in preparation for the big celebrations that were yet to come.
    Indeed, I chose to go for lateral expansion first. The lack of techs/wonders didn't allow big celebrations anyway, so I figured the best choice was to delay demo and instead expand (peacefully and not-so-peacefully). After the discovery of explosives in 1750, it was the kick-off for the massive developement of the big continent, so that a lot of cities were eventually able to grow from size 3 to >20 nonstop.

    Yes, I think we all are curious to see how Grigor's game went on!
     
  16. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Grigor has not had a chance to play further. As he said in the game thread:
    I, too, await his logs.

    As for the gambit, grigor's was riskly as Jokemaster has already pointed out. Mine was not. I too tipped the first hut after using both my original settlers hoping for (and getting) a nomad. But Grigor used both settlers on the capital whereas I used my second settler to build a city on the tundra island. Had I not gotten a nomad, I could still expand from the tundra city. Of course, this meant delaying the tipping of the first hut by many turns.

    In my opinion, what put grigor ahead in the early game was his masterful tech plan to get Monarchy and mapmaking in the first 5 techs. Everyone else did alphabet followed by mapmaking which delayed change of government quite a bit.

    As for my higher domestic trade payouts, the biggest factor is large city sizes. My first trade route was established in +1240 and by then I had some medium to large cities. After democracy in +1540 my population took off big time: my population in 1750 is a whopping 5 times the population in 1500 whereas my number of cities is only 40% higher.
     
  17. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Reported statuses (so far) at +1000

    name population cities techs cost unitCost routes wonders
    Major Advantage 0.64 17 20 ? 1220 0 LH
    Jokemaster 0.74 22 23 0 ? ? Pyr,LH,MPE,Mik
    grigor ? 33 32 ? 1800 10 LH,HG,Col,MPE,Mik,Cop,Leo
    haleewud 1.79 13 26 5 870 10 LH,MPE,Mik,Leo
    Ali Ardavan 1.27 29 28 17 1340 0 LH,MPE,Mik,Cop


    The amazing result here is that of haleewud. Far fewer cities than others but first in population by a long shot (50% over me and more than twice others), competitive in techs, the only one with trade routes, and first in wonders.

    Once again, grigor is the clear leader.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  18. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Reported statuses (so far) at +1500

    name population cities techs cost unitCost routes wonders[/B]
    Major Advantage 2.07 42 26 ? 2620 4 LH,Mik,SoL
    Jokemaster 1.77 37 39 6 ? ? Pyr,LH,MPE,Mik,Mag,JSB
    grigor@+1550 ? 87 44 ? 10,730 32 LH,HG,Col,MPE,GL,Mik,Cop,Mag,Leo,SoL,Newton
    haleewud 2.89 16 35 8 1610 19 LH,MPE,Mik,Mag,Leo,New
    Ali Ardavan 6.39 37 34 53 1940 20 LH,MPE,Mik,Cop,Mag,Sha,Leo


    My investment in infrastructure has started to payoff. With similar number of cities, I have 3 times the population of Major and Jokemaster.

    grigor is far ahead of the rest.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  19. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Reported statuses (so far) at +1750

    name Population Cities techs cost routes wonders
    Major Advantage 04.7 97 38 ? 14 LH,Mik,Mag,Leo,SoL
    Jokemaster 10.0 64 46 6 ? Pyr,LH,MPE,Mik,Mag,Leo,JSB,AST
    grigor
    haleewud 05.6 18 47 29 39 LH,MPE,Mik,Mag,Sha,Leo,New,SoL,Darwin
    Ali Ardavan 33.3 53 49 92 58 LH,MPE,Mik,Cop,Mag,Sha,Leo,JSB,AST


    On the surface, I am leading. But major with almost twice as many cities maybe able to catch up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  20. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    1750-1800 AD. This period was mostly focused on grabbing land via Engineer spam, bribing cities where they blocked my way, and building up infrastructure (such as roads on shielded grassland, Harbours, and Marketplaces where necessary. In order of priority) Science was paltry during this period, but expansion sped up.


    1752 AD: Darwin`s built, Explosives > Industrialization > Leadership. (Corp not available) See the English crusader again, I`ll bribe. Probably won`t bother with a shipchain, too much RL time, will gun for Airports instead. T1L2S7. Cannae II built. Capoue II built.

    1754 AD: Turin II built. T3L2S5, as I would prefer having more cash to rush Engineers for the landgrab. Gotta get as much land secured before war inevitably starts. Gênes II built. Crète II built on desert island.

    1756 AD: Nothing of note.

    Interturn: Zulus and Romans sign peace.

    1758 AD: Salamis II built. Chivalry is annoying.

    1760 AD: Leadership > The Corporation. Lisbonne II built. Hambourg II built.

    Interturn: English take Roman city of Césaraugusta.

    1762 AD: Salzbourg II built.

    Interturn: Romans liberate Césaraugusta, take Steam Engine.

    1764 AD: Bribe English explorer. Venise II built. Milan II built.

    Interturn: Romans and Zulus ally against me. Romans declare WAR when I refuse to give Railroad. Here we go!!! Real game begins now. Lose a musketeer to Roman crusader.

    1766 AD: The Corporation > COMMUNISM IS THE ONLY OPTION. Google the French word for “seal” and you have my reaction. T7L2S1 as I will bribe a Roman city next turn. They have very little gold, which is quite fortunate.

    1768 AD: Bribe Caesarea for 165g, get 1g+2c+Pikeman. This is super cheap! Senate forces cease-fire in the face of GW, but it doesn`t matter. Pise II built. English: WAR. Will lose a diplomat. Dublin II built. Hut: 100g. Toronto II built. Melbourne II built.

    1770 AD: Repeated civil disorder warnings. T6L3S1 in response. Romans: WAR. Well, thank you, I don`t have to pay twice the money now. Bribe Lugnudum for 448g, get 7citizens+4(+60)g, 3 units, and 3 improvements. Sydney II built. Beijing9 III built.

    1772 AD: Bribe annoying English crusader for 272g. Shanghai III built. Canton III built. My urban planning this game is off, many wasted specials.

    1774 AD: Romans: declare war on me again. Bribe Pise for 556g, get 9citizens+4units+5g+sell Granary. Good pop base but bad infrastructure. Nankin III built. Tsingtao III built. Lots of my cities above size3. Xinjian III built. Chengdu III built. Hangzhou II built. Tienstin III built.

    Interturn: Lose an engineer to English knight.

    1776 AD: Tatung III built. Macao III built. Anyang III built.

    Interturn: English and Spanish ally against me.

    1778 AD: Subvert Isandlwhana for 337*2, get 127+2c+1 unit+Temple. Noticeably worse deal but it was only Zulu town in area. F, did not notice Palmyre was rioting… would have saved cash. Decide to sell 2 Aqueducts to get necessary money. Palmyre subverted for 165*2, get 5citizens+3+60g. Cease-fire expires. Do not have money to bribe Lutèce (only remaining enemy city in immediate area). Run into English catapult with dip, RIP. Shantung III built. Re-prioritizing science next turn.

    Interturn: lose Engineer, Diplomat to English. They are sending multiple Knights my way.

    1780 AD: Bribe Lutèce for 280g, get 4citizens+4+60g. Have a dragoon near Dover, unwilling to attack without Vet status. Should I build SunTzu? I will. 6 vans in Chengdu.

    Interturn: English almost done with SunTzu. LOL. Lose 2 units defending Lugnudum (can rk) barely survive Knight attack on my dragoon further east. They are spending heavy resources on slowing my expansion.

    1782 AD: CHENGDU SUNTZU. English swap to Eiffel. Kill multiple English units, veteran each time. Douvres just built city walls… dang. Can no longer conquer with a single unit. Chinan III built, roman city in the vicinity! Discover Artaxata. Cannot bribe next turn, will wait 2 turns.

    Interturn: English steal Railroad from me.

    1784 AD: Kill English knight, vet. Kaifeng III built. Decide to attack Douvres anyway, sadly there was a musketeer defending and I fail to kill it. T6L3S1 to bribe Byzance next turn, pretty far-away from everything city. Ningpo III built. Paoting III built. Yangchow III built.

    Interturn: English kill a diplomat.

    1786 AD: Subvert Artaxata for 108*2g, get 1c+Pikeman. Cease-fire expires. Bribe out-of-the-way Byzance for 432g, get 7c+4+60g+3 improvements. Only 1 unit however, and zero roads for happiness. Kill Roman crusader, diplomat. Naples Iii built.

    1788 AD: Issos III built. Cunaxa III built. T2L3S5. Cremona III built. Cannae III built.

    Interturn: Repel 2 English knight attacks.

    1790 AD: Unrest is so bad, size 2 cities are now in disorder if I don`t have at least 2 luxuries. Wow. Capoue III built. Turin III built. Learned Communism at some point as well (most likely the cause).

    Interturn: Lose a diplomat to English. English knight also near undefended size1 city, the city will be destroyed. Dangit… that is really slowing me down.

    1792 AD: Genetic Engineering > Espionage. I got stuck with Communism and will do a lot of bribing, so might as well. Gênes III built. 2 English catapults next to it…. Crete III built. Kill loitering English knight south of Newcastle. Verone III built. Salamis III built. 12 vans in Tsingtao for CfC.

    Interturn: My city is razed by English, lose an engineer. At least they didn`t get tech.

    1794 AD: TSINGTAO CfC. Will wait another turn before celebrating, for Espionage. Kill2 English Catapults, and offending English knight. Lisbonne III built. T4L3S3. Hambourg III built. Prague III built, catapult 2 squares away. Rushed musketeers are expensive. Salzbourg III built. Bergen III built.

    1796 AD: Espionage > Metallurgy. Venise III built. Bribe Newcastle for 564g - it`s not linked to their empire - get 73+3c+3improvements+2Muskets. T6L4S0. Will now celebrate the whole republic to size 8-12 where possible. Will most likely build up Naples and Kaifeng as pseudo-STCs to dump trade vans into. Cease-fire with English forced on me by Senate. Milan III built.

    1798 AD: WLTPD everywhere. Sabotaging units apparently does not expire cease-fires. Ghent III built. Pise III built. Dublin III built. Toronto III built. Melbourne III built.

    1800 AD: Pop goes from 20 to 25 million citizens. English have the opportunity to sack one of my new, undefended cities if they break the cease-fire. Agh, getting escorts is going to be annoying. Sydney III built. Beijing IV built.



    STATUS AT 1800AD: (End of 226th turn)

    Population: 25.340.000 Cities: 134 (70 cities in 25 turns, wow… that`s the power of the Pyramids) Government: Democracy Total advances: 53 (researching Metallurgy)
    Gold: 20 T7L3S0 Income/Cost per turn: 1148 income, 38 cost. Production: 647MT Trade: 2706arrows Wonders: Pyramids, LH, Marco`s, Mikes, JSB, Mag`s, Adam Smith, Leo`s, Darwin, CfC, SunTzu. Other civs have HG, GW, Colossus, GL, KRC, Cope`s, Shakes, SoL, Newton`s.



    GOALS: Immediately, get on celebrating. Main mainland cities size8, older ones size12+. Finish roading up shielded grassland, and do basic north-south railways. After building STCs near the big lands, start sending vans there. Not sure how to deal with the harrying English units honestly. I will likely have to build quite a few Alpines when I get the tech, to babysit the new city sites. Tech-wise, prioritize the classic Modern path, however I will probably go for Flight first due to cross-map trading with Airports. It will be worth the hit once that is unlocked. Not like I`ll ever be able to get a port city to the AI islands anytime soon…

    Oh, and try to bribe away the Romans` cities. They still must have low treasury, so might as well abuse that if you can. Being forced into researching Communism sucks, but that`s life.
     

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