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GOTM 200 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Major Advantage, Mar 17, 2018.

  1. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Florida
    The next period is a time of great expansion, mostly through bribery with a few attacks interspersed. I had 18 cities in 1750. By 1800, I had 66 cities. 6 new cities were founded, I also conquered or bribed 2 Roman cities, 5 Zulu Cities, 3 French cities, 12 Spanish cities, 16 English cities and 4 Mongol cities. The English and Mongols had been eliminated from their islands and the Zulus and Spanish only had their capital on the home island.
    Once Corporation was discovered and Freight became available, Trade picked up substantially. The first foreign delivery came in 1758. I got 1100 gold for Beijing Dye to Exeter (English). With the increased trade came much scientific improvement, almost one each turn. And, of course, the money for bribing/subverting AI cities.
    I began to expand the number of engineers during this time to help build roads and Railroads in the AI territories.

    +1752 Expel English Diplomat, Contact English (5), Give RR, Industry + Gun, Maps
    +1754 English start WS, English capture Cadiz, Romans Myst, Corp -> Conscription (1617), Deliveries (3 Domestic for 1064)
    +1756 Build 3 Diplomats, 8 vans to Canton
    +1758 Mongols St.Eng (start ET), French govt overthrown, Spanish get Magnetism from French, Conscription -> Communism (1650), Canton builds Bach's, Build 2 Engineers, Beijing Dye to Exeter 1100g (first Foreign delivery)
    +1760 Zulus St.Eng (start ET), French change to Republic, Communism -> Atomic Theory (1785), Naples founded at 12,98,1, Issus founded at 20,100,1, Deliveries (1 Dom 315, 1 Foreign 804), T/L/S = 0/4/6
    +1762 Atomic Theory -> Espionage (1820), Bribe English Legion 420, Cunaxa founded at 38,58,1, Deliveries (2 Foreign 1503), T/L/S = 0/5/5
    +1764 Zulus and Spanish sign Madrid Pact to contain Chinese aggression, Zulus and English sign Ulundi Pact, Spanish start ET, Espionage -> Electronics (1855), Cremona founded at 27,81,1, 6 vans to Xinjian, Bribe Exeter 333 (Wheel), Senate signs CF, Deliveries (3 Dom 845, 2 Foreign 924)
    +1766 English start ET, Zulus and English WAR, Zulus and French sign Besancon Pact, Xinjian builds ET, Electronics -> Refining (1980), Bribe English Cruader 238, Subvert Dover 2x735, Bribe English Settler 456, Deliveries (1 Foreign 40)
    +1768 Spanish start WS, Bribe English Settler 448, Warrior 56, warrior 56, Crusader 224, Crusader 224, Bribe Gloucester 159, CF with English, Deliveries (2 Foreign 780)
    +1770 English govt overthrown, English get Mag from Spanish, Peace, English get Monarchy from Mongols, sign Manchester Pact, Mongols start WS, English get Univ from French, Peace sign Granada Pact, Refining -> Steel (2016), Deliveries (2 Foreign 1470), Bribe Coventry 605, CF
    +1772 English change to Republic, English get Feudalism from Mongols, ToG from Mongols, Zulus and English Peace, sign Granada Pact, Steel -> Refrigeration (1995), Deliveries (2 Foreign 1922), Bribe Birmingham 116, Bribe Warwick 266
    +1774 Refrigeration -> Genetic Engineering (2088), Bribe English Warrior 48, Catapult 192, subvert Leeds 2x174, Deliveries (1 Dom 485, 1 Foreign 964), Cannae founded at 70,168,12, Bribe Newcastle 234
    +1776 English nearly done with WS, Mongols (2) land near Coventry, English and Spanish sign Pamplona Pact, English are joining Spanish war against Chinese, Genetic Eng -> Fundy (2124), Bribe English Crus 172, Settler 344, Diplomat 129, Settler 344, Bribe Hastings 502, Bribe Oxford 240, Bribe Mongol Catapult 208, Mongol Settler 416, Mongol Caravel 208, Deliveries (2 Foreign 1778)
    +1778 York grants WS, Zulus, Mongols and Spanish abandon, English break CF, Settler killed, Fundy -> Combustion (2160), Kill English Cata, Spanish Embassy, Bribe Malaga 77, give Mongols (2) Metal, maps, Mongol embassy, give French (1) Sanitation, Give Zulus(3) Metal, maps, Bribe Cambridge 176, bribe Manchester 144, CF with English, Deliveries (2 Foreign 2040)
    +1780 English develop Communism, English break CF, Sneak attack by Mongols, Spanish get Metal from Zulus, Spanish get Trade from Zulus, Combustion -> Flight (2196), kill Mongol Chariot, Capua founded at 46,32,1, bribe Spanish Settler 260, Musket 97, subvert Salamanca 2x200, subvert Valencia 2x210, bribe French Cata 124, Deliveries (1 Dom 974, 1 Foreign 786)
    +1782 Spanish CF ends, Flight -> Radio (2294), Bribe Mongol Caravel 224, kill Exp in Bokhara, Bribe Mongol Ironclad 504, Kill Archer in Samarkand, Kill Crus in Samarkand, Capture Bokhara, Capture Samarkand, bribe Nishapur 1987, Bribe Spanish Settler 224, Bribe French Crus 126, bribe Valladolid 190, Bribe Bilbao 234, Bribe Cordoba 363, Spanish CF, Deliveries (2 Foreign 2044)
    +1784 English steal Atomic Theory, Senate signs Mongol CF, Spanish get Monarchy and Univ from Zulus, Spanish break CF, kill Rifle and 2 Engineers, Radio -> Chivalry (2331), Destroy Spanish Frigate+2units, Bribe Mongol Crusader 148, Bribe Zulu Crusader 228, Spanish Settler 224, Bribe Barcelona 352, Senate approves continued war with Spanish, Bribe Vigo 104, Deliveries (1 Dom 734, 1 Foreign 792)
    +1786 English govt overthrown, English get Metal from Spanish for Atomic Theory, Spanish Frigate kills Cannon, Chivalry -> Leadership (2368), Kill English Frigate+2units, Bribe Spanish Frigate 130, English Musket 136, Zulu Diplomat 174, Deliveries (3 Foreign 1411)
    +1788 English change to Communism, English get Sani from Zulus, Spanish govt overthrown, Frigate(with Spy) sunk, Leadership -> Tactics (2535), kill English Frigate+1 unit, Kill Musket in York, Kill Phal in London, capture London, Capture York (Women's Suffrage+Colossus), Bribe Partisan 202, Bribe Nottingham 385 (KRC), Capture undefended Canterbury, Bribe Granada 400, Bribe English Part 177, Part 177, Spanish Cannon 104, Give Romans RR, Peace, Bribe Roman Settler 232, Settler 232, Roman Embassy, Subvert Cumae 2X114, Deliveries (3 Foreign 2583)
    +1790 Spanish change to Republic, Tactics -> Machine Tools (2574), Kill Spanish Frigate+2 Units, Zulu embassy, subvert Mpondo 2x209, Deliveries (1 Dom 652, 2 Foreign 986)
    +1792 Zulu change to Monarchy, sneak attack kills Rifle in Mpondo, Zulus steal Combustion, Machine Tools -> Amphib War (2613), bribe English Crusader 150, Musket 112, Zulu Ironclad 342, kill Zulu Musket, Give Industry(Peace)+Wheel to Romans, bribe Roman Settler 316, subvert Antium 2x980 (Sun Tzu), Deliveries (1 Dom 832, 2 Foreign 1299)
    +1794 Zulus get Communism from French, AmphibWar -> Miniaturization (2720), French embassy, subvert Besancon 2x190, Bribe Zulu Settler 472, Bribe Isandhlwana 750, Bribe Roman Settler 280, Caravel 130, Senate signs Zulu CF, Deliveries (3 Dom 1879, 1 Foreign 491)
    +1796 English capital moved to Liverpool, Mini -> Advanced Flight (2760), Bribe Spanish Cannon 110, Capture Seville, Bribe Toledo 216, Bribe Avila 120, Senate signs Spanish CF, Bribe French Crus 120, Cata 120, Transport 150, Bribe Zulu Ironclad 315, French Crus 120, Zulu Settler 420, French Crus 120, Deliveries (3 Dom 1903, 1 Foreign 190)
    +1798 French govt overthrown, French Crusader kills 2 Engineers near Granada, AF -> Automobile (2800), Bribe Rheims 512, Bribe Lyons 560, Senate signs French CF, Bribe French Cannon 104, Bribe Zulu Settlers 424, English Crusader 150, Deliveries (3 Dom 1912)
    +1800 English start UN, Mongols break CF, Auto -> Mass Production (2982), Kill Musket in Karakorum, capture Karakorum, subvert Bapedi 2x864 (Oracle), Subvert Hlobane 2x190, Bribe Ulundi 1144 (Great Wall), Deliveries (3 Foreign 2774)

    stats at +1800
    Pop.: 28.93M; Cities: 66; Techs: 70; Gov: Democracy; Gold: 327; Trade Routes: 31Dom/45Conquered/7Foreign; Cost/Turn: 158;
    Units: 3 settlers, 37 Engineers, 2 Musketeers, 3 Partisans, 44 Rifle, 1 Marine, 2 Crusaders, 4 Dragoons, 13 Cavalry, 2 Cannon, 5 Artillery, 1 Fighter, 1 Frigate, 5 Destroyer, 35 Transport, 8 Spy, 26 caravan
    Wonders: Colossus, LH, Oracle, GW, SunTzu, KRC, MPE, Mike's, Magellan's, Shake's, Leo's, Bach's, Newton's, Darwin's, SoL, ET, WS

    Romans - 203 gold, 2 cities, 31 tech (none), Republic, HG
    Zulus - 614 gold, 3 cities, 44 tech (none), Monarchy, Copernicus
    French - 199 gold, 2 cities, 44 tech (none), Republic, Pyramids, GL
    Spanish - 146 gold, 1 cities, 42 tech (none), Republic
    English - 620 gold, 8 cities, 44 tech (none), Communism
    Mongols - 221 gold, 1 cities, 36 tech (none), Republic

    Goals: Finish off most of the AIs, Build spaceship, grow thru celebrations
     
  2. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Good job! I thought from the start it would be more useful to clear the continent from AI-cities and leave their homelands to them (temporarly) for offshore trade from the continent's cities, especially the ones on the southern coast.

    Next part on my side, good progress in lateral expansion and techs:

    1752 deliveries 114, 46; Run into Roman Cumae, open embassy
    (Mongols land near Nishapur, gift sme techs, peace, maps, they obviously do not have anything useful to offer; Zulus physics, France leadership)
    1754 Econ.->Metallurgy
    1756 Down to contact with France, they decline peace offer, so this is the nasty AI I have not seen for for a long time...
    1758 Deliveries for for 246, 129, 220; Embassy with Mongols
    (Spanish sneak attack, catapult kills musc)
    1760 Metall->Physics; Kill 2 spanish catapults, get physics from Zulus; delivery 192
    1760 Research Corporation; Capture Valladolid 85
    1766 Corp->Steam; Adam Smith built; Dip bumps into Zulu engineer, bribed for 328 (NONE); gift some techs to France, they still don't wanna sign peace, exchange maps
    (French's sneak attack doen't surprise me, they kill rifleman)
    1768 Subvert Leeds 2*82 (18 back), kill French dragoon; Sign cease fire with pain, no peace though
    1770 Delivery for 474
    1772 Steam->Railroad; Demand spanish tribute, they declare war, we bribe Saragossa for 192 (79); 231
    (Sign cease fire with spain)
    1774 Rifleman on island 9, deliveries for 220, 273; delay attack on Chartres for one more turn due to tech reasons
    1776 Railroad->Industry, Finally! Now for Chartres, Several casualties, but finally we win, city grabbed, 33g + Leadership (this will allow Ind+Corporation next turn, plan B was to bribe a roman city)
    1778 Ind.->Corporation->Sanitation; Darwin built; Sign peace with France, no peace though; deliveries 240, 226; Subvert Cumae 2*168 (40+San., also got Rifleman + engineer)
    1780 Research Tactics (Not sure if this is good, might be useful to upgrade my dragoons to Cavalery); Delivery 220; Too early to switch to Demo, Bach comes next turn, but boats should be un-unhappy, several AIs are working on Magnetism
    1782 Bach built, Delivery 402
    1784 Tactics->Genetic Engineering (Too bad everything useful is in group 2...); 282, 177, 210, 110
    1786 Genetic->Gravity
    (Zulus approach, give Railroad, sign peace, they steal conscription)
    1788 260, 147
    (Mongols offer alliance against Rome, we decline)
    1790 112
    1792 Gravity->Refining (still hoping someone will get Mag for us); 254, 88
    1794 184
    (Romans Magnetism, finally! Also gave it to French. And French switch government + sneak attack, dragoon kills rifleman despite city walls)
    1796 Ref.->Mag; Kill musc in Tours, city empty already! Sweet! City captured (40g+Mag, boats upgraded to galleons)... All units moved except for boats with vans and a dip ready to bribe Avignon for 690...that would result in chivalry, loss of 20s-slot, but upgrade of boats to transports...think, ok, rbs first, then bribe the city, then move boats+trade, then revolution, a few turns of fundy and war to raise gold, maybe we can sack Paris with Pyramids? Do so, deliveries 188, 156, 138, Revolution
    (Spanish march into empty Dover, we sign cease fire)
    1798 Cure built; Establish Demo, check F4, hmmm, some cities revolting @ 30Lux, we'll see about that; delivery for 384, 320, 330; Subvert Dover for 2*47 (33 back), args, bad mistiming, at war with France, engineer to build road to Rouen and now senate signs cease fire..., revolt again + Fundy, subvert Mongol Ngome for 2*558 (148+120 for cathedral), subvert Mpondo for 2*312 (33), demand French tribute, they declare war! We attack Rouen, everybody declares war on us, and the attack fails miserably! Ouch!
    (Sign cease fire with Mongols for Gravity, no other AI activities)
    1800 Research+discover Electricity->Steel; Delivery 704 (dye(d) from Grass Island to England), sign cease fire with England; Hmm, we really need to grow cities by celebration, one more turn Fundy, then back to Demo

    Stats at 1800AD:
    pop.: 12M; Cities: 152; techs: 55; gold: 3078; Gov.: Fundy; wonders: LH, Michelangelo, Magellan, Leo, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin, SoL, Cure; TR: ?D/?F
    units: 114 eng, 51 def., 18 off., 10 dip, 37 van, 1 explorer, 19 boat
    Goals: Expand, trade, Bribe some rival cities, switch to Demo and grow soon, build UN for peace
     
  3. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    What was your reasoning in invading a few of the AI`s home islands haleewud? You weren`t interested into offshore trade with them, from your continent cities? I`d like to know why, seems out of left field for me.
     
  4. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
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    Location:
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    The main reason for eliminating the AI from their home islands was to take away their wonders. In some cases, I would deliver 1 or 2 freight to an AI city on the turn that I bribed/subverted them. For instance in 1782, right before attacking Bokhara, I delivered dye from Hangchow to Bokhara and received 1030 gold. But that was 1 of 2 deliveries I made that turn (the other was to York which I didn't capture until 3 turns later). I never really had any issue with trade. Even the domestic trade from my southern cities to my cities on the mainland (home grown or captured) was still generating adequate funds during this time period.

    BTW. In 1802, I took over the remaining Roman, Zulu, French and Spanish cities and eliminated those AIs. The English had 8 cities, some of them were in out of the way locations while a couple, like Norwich at 41,73,1 had been bypassed. Norwich was bypassed because I had made a number of deliveries of Spice and Dye between 1760 and 1792. I did finally eliminate the English in 1844. Norwich was the last English city to be bribed and I did deliver 1 final Dye right before the spy was sent in.
     
  5. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    So you weren`t going for spaceship/blue star then. Heh. Never thought of it as a possibility.
     
  6. haleewud

    haleewud Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    Actually I was going for SpaceShip. Blue Star (highest score) would be nice. Of course, if you own all the Wonders, that helps get your score higher, so I am not sure why it wouldn't make sense to take out the AIs. I could have left the Spanish and Mongols alone since they didn't have any wonders, but the Spanish had quite a few cities on the big continent and I didn't want to have to worry about them, so they had to be taken over.
     
  7. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Were there any useful wonders left? In my game, it was only Pyramids in Paris, that city was subverted in 1812 (thankfully the French had switched their capitol early on)

    My plan was to eventually capture all AI cities (except for one) and have all wonders, but I wanted to keep their homeland intact (temporarily) for trade. However, at some time I felt those cities would be more benificial as ours, fully grown and fully equipped, with superhighways and ROADS on all tiles (why do the AI build irrigation but do not build roads anyway???), more than enough gold and the beaker box was full anyway after a couple of deliveries, so it was growing and getting as many FTs as possible by city science.

    I have not finished yet, but not so far to go, the ship is on the way. Can we set the next breakpoint at 1830? I did save several times each year and kept the final one.
     
  8. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    +1750 to +1800

    +1752 Refining -> Combustion. First pollution appears. 100g from hut. Qom founded on the desert island.
    +1754 Soleyman founded on the continent. 100g from hut. Rifleman from hut.
    +1756 Combustion -> Magnetism. English started Magnetism in 1480 and I have been waiting since then for them to finish it; that is too long. Domestic deliveries for 448, 618. 2x100g from huts. T0L3S7
    +1758 Damn English develop Magnetism. Magnetism -> Flight -> Electricity. Domestic deliveries for 308, 156, 360. 200g from hut. English declare war rather than remove the crusader pestering around my core cities on the continent. English crusader killed. English allies of Spain and Mongols declare war on me. Siahkal founded on the continent.
    +1760 French build Statue of Liberty. Electricity -> Radio. Domestic deliveries for 430. Basra, PolDokhtar, Susangerd, and Astara founded on the continent. T2L3S5
    +1762 Romans build Eiffel. Radio -> Electronics. Cure for cancer built. Domestic deliveries for 300, 388, 225, 190. Baku founded on the continent. Crusader kills Zulu knight and turns vet.
    +1764 Rifleman in Siahkal survives English crusader and turns vet. Electronics -> Steel. 3 Airports built; 5 more under construction. 100g+50g from huts. Rudbar founded on the continent.
    +1766 Zulu knight kills my exploring horseman. Steel -> Automobile. Domestic delivery for 160.
    +1768 Romans raze Siahkal and take railroad. Automobile -> Mass Production. Roman crusader killed. 100g from hut. Crusader kills barbarian knight. Another barbarian knight bribed for 82g. Dye from the jungle island to Roman Pisae for 630 establishes the first foreign trade route. Domestic delivery for 626. Omid founded on the continent.
    +1770 Mass Production -> Refrigeration. Hoover built. Airplane built in the twin-fish-shaped-lakes area for protection against wandering enemies. On its first mission it discovers and kills a Spanish crusader. Domestic deliveries for 491, 690. Makkeh and Laar founded on the continent. Tonb founded on island 9 inside the continent. T0L3S7
    +1772 Refrigeration -> Recycling -> Nuclear Fission. Roman diplomat killed. Domestic deliveries for 574, 634, 652, 266, 136. Rizeh founded on the continent.
    +1774 Romans deliver to Shushtar. Unfortunately it already had 3 route and no foreign route is estabished. Spanish kill my explorer. Nuclear Fission -> Nuclear Power -> Laser. Dye to English Oxford for 859 establishes the first trade route. Domestic deliveries for 424, 148. T7L3S0
    +1776 Hides to Romans for 98. Domestic delivery for 428. Roman diplomat killed. Brujerd founded on the continent.
    +1778 Roman Pisae bribed for 292g. Got 20g, Chivalry (main goal), 3 soldiers, and a marketplace. Senate hands cease fire to Romans as I am about to kill the Cannon approaching Pisae. Mongol Crusader near one of my cities killed. They activate their alliance with Romans and they declare war. Roman Cannon killed by musketeer. English crusader approaching Baku killed by airplane. Had to sacrifice a diplomat by placing it in harms way to save a newly founded city from destruction by approaching Zulu knight. Darband founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 397. T6L3S1
    +1780 Laser -> Feudalism. Zulu knight kills my diplomat and is killed by a crusader. English Oxford bribed for 154g. Got 11g, Feudalism (main goal), a soldier, and 3 structures; what a deal! Khorramabad founded on the continent. Kuhposht founded on the mountain island as the last planned city south of the continent. Domestic deliveries for 290, 342, 224. T3L3S4
    +1782 Senate hands cease fire to the English. Romans deliver to Shushtar; unfortunately I do not get a route out of it. -> Leadership -> Tactics. English step in the city border of Lahijan. I contact them and they demand money and declare war! English crusader killed. Kerman founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 756. T1L3S6
    +1784 2 English crusader descend on Lahijan and kill 2 engineers. Mongols start Darwin; mine will be done next turn. Tactics -> Machine Tools. English crusader bribed for 132g and used to kill a Spanish cannon. Roman crusader killed. Madineh and Kuwait founded on the continent. 50g, Industrialization, Conscription -> Mongol -> peace, maps. T3L2S5
    +1786 Machine Tools -> Mobile Warfare -> Mini -> Computers. Darwin built. Mongols switch to Suffrage. 3 English units killed. Roman cannon killed. 50g from hut. Gold from Shanghai to size 1 city of mine on the continent for 1230! Domestic delivery for 935. T1L2S7
    +1788 Computers -> Advanced Flight -> Rocketry. Roman, 2 Egnlish, and Zulu knights killed. Ramshir founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 1504 (Oil to Shanghai), 682, 310.
    +1790 Spanish crusader meets my van. 100g, Railroad, Industrialization -> Spanish -> peace, maps. Rocketry -> Space Flight -> Plastics. 1 Zulu and 1 Roman units killed. Aligudarz founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 574, 506. T3L2S5
    +1792 Plastics -> Robotics. Roman diplomat killed. 50g, Railroad, Industrialization -> Zulu -> peace, maps. Neyriz and Ramhormoz founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 52, 438.
    +1794 Robotics -> Superconductor. 3 new pollutions appear. 2 English units killed. English settler roaming around since the conquest of Oxford in 1774 bribed for 244g. Mongol knight which just stepped next to Pisae bribed for 256g. Kazerun founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 138, 57. T2L2S6
    +1796 Superconductor -> Stealth. Roman diplomat killed. Shiraz, Fasaa, Siahkal, and Rabet founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 50, 157, 171, 496, 660, 717 (uranium). T1L2S7
    +1798 Stealth -> Combined Arms -> Environmentalism. SETI built. 2 English units killed. Yazd founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 420, 384. T3L2S5
    +1800 Mongols break cease fire and kill a diplomat. Spanish put 3 crusaders next to my cities. Environmentalism -> Fusion Power. Apollo built. 2 Mongol units killed. One Spanish crusader bribed for 150g. Najaf founded on the continent. Domestic deliveries for 850, 498.

    Status at +1800
    Population: 64.2M; Cities: 86; Techs: 81; Government: Democracy
    Gold: 224; Cost: 391; Trade routes: 152D0F;
    Ancient Wonders: Lighthouse
    Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan, Shakespeare
    Industrial Wonders: Leo, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin
    Modern Wonders: Cure, Hoover, SETI, Apollo
    Units: 47 Engineers (2 None), 1 Legion, 1 musketeer, 8 Riflemen, 1 horsemen, 6 crusaders, 2 knights, 2 tanks, 2 fighter planes, 1 stealth fighter, 10 transports, 7 diplomats, 13 vans, 1 explorer
    Goals: Tipping the last remaining 2 huts, strategic expansion on the continent, more road and rail network on the continent, conquering some rival cities on the continent, UN, space race
    Notes: French never left their homeland, others have cities on the northern side of the continent: 6+4+6+8+2 for a total of 26.
    Footprint: 2 cities on glacier, 4 on tundra, 3 on hill, 3 on mountain, 5 on forest, 2 on swamp, 4 on jungle, 4 on plains, 4 on desert, 4 on grassland, 1 on island 10, 1 on island 11, 49 on the continent.
    Roman: 10 cities, 48 techs; Hanging Gardens, Great Library, Eiffel; allied with Mongols, war with me
    Zulu: 8 cities, 42 techs; Great Wall, Sun Tzu; allied with Spanish, war with Mongols
    French: 3 cities, 33 techs; Pyramids, Liberty
    Spanish: 9 cities, 41 techs; allied with Zulu and English
    English: 11 cities, 45 techs; Colossus, Newton, King Richard; allied with Spanish and Mongols, war with me
    Mongol: 5 cities, 47 techs; allied with Romans and English, war with Zulu and me
     
  9. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Wow! Impressive strategy: 6 cities built vs. 42 captured! Your trade numbers are also very impressive. In contrast, I built 31 cities in this period and only captured 2. My main purpose in both those captures was getting a tech I needed. I could not have done what you did even if I wanted to because my rivals never built that many cities. In +1800 there are only 46 rival cities in my game. Since I never sent a settler/engineer to the continent, my expansion on the continent, naturally, focused on the 3 separate areas where I got advanced tribes: 3 on the southern rim, 3 further north around the great north-south river, and 2 in the area of twin fish-shaped lakes. In 1800, the southern rim is one city short of full and 90% connected via road/rail. The other two clusters are grown and both joined to the southern rim (but not to each other) via newly built cities and patchy roads. I am right now debating how much conquest I should do at the expense of delaying the space race. On the one hand, with Stealth, Mobile warfare, and Combined Arms all recently acquired I can wreak havoc on rival cities (not to mention bribery particularly when spies come around in a few turns). On the other hand, I will expose myself to tech theft and prolonged warfare as right now a significant amount of undeveloped land separates me from rivals whose cities (with one exception) are clustered together near the northern rim. I patrol this area every turn and have killed a significant number of approaching diplomats.
     
  10. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    70 cities in 25 turns is indeed impressive. While Major still has more cities at +1800 you have narrowed the gap from 50% to 15%.
    As for flight, I had the same thought. I usually delay flight as much as possible not least because it expires Colossus which is my favorite early wonder. This game English got it before I even had a chance to compete for it. Not having to manage a long ship chain was of course another reason.
     
  11. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    The 4 players who have reported up to +1800 fall into two groups: Major and Jokemaster are in one group with twice as many cities, significantly fewer techs, and far less infrastructure and improvements compared to the other group which is haleewud and I. Looking forward to grigor's next update and hoping there are more players out there who will join the spoiler.

    Reported statuses (so far) at +1800

    name population cities techs cost routes wonders
    Major Advantage 12.0 152 55 ? ? LH,Mik,Mag,Leo,JSB,SoL,AST,Darwin,CFC
    Jokemaster 25.3 134 53 38 ? Pyr,LH,MPE,Mik,Mag,Leo,JSB,AST,SunTzu,Darwin,CFC
    grigor
    haleewud 28.9 66 70 158 83 LH,MPE,Mik,Mag,Sha,Leo,JSB,New,SoL,Darwin,Col,Oracle,GW,SunTzu,KRC,Eiffel,Suffrage
    Ali Ardavan 64.2 86 81 391 152 LH,MPE,Mik,Cop,Mag,Sha,Leo,JSB,AST,Darwin,CFC,Hoover,SETI,Apollo
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
  12. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Thanks for the table, Ali. I will add the costs for infrastructure in my nex log (but I will not be counting the trade routes for all 152 cities! ;) Though I was trying to set up 3 routes in each city while they were growing early on). And adding the costs was a great way of defining how my game progressed from 1800-1830! In 1800 I just had to pay for a handful of aquaeducts and barracks I wanted to keep (Adam Smith did cover a whole lot more, mainly harbors)...

    Next part, in 1806 I was finally set for demo and growing and growing and growing....

    Stats at 1800AD:
    pop.: 12M; Cities: 152; techs: 55; gold: 3078; Gov.: Fundy; Cost per turn: 12;wonders: LH, Michelangelo, Magellan, Leo, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin, SoL, Cure; TR: ?D/?F
    units: 114 eng, 51 def., 18 off., 10 dip, 37 van, 1 explorer, 19 boat
    Goals: Expand, trade, Bribe some rival cities, switch to Demo and grow soon, build UN for peace

    1802 Bribe French Cordoba for 900 (66 back), Besancon for 856 (37+GW); Bribe revolting Swazi for 75 (15), Sign cease fire with France; Deliveries 572, 357
    1804 Steeel->Combustion; Bribe Hlobane for 924 (88), now we have coastal cities on all northern oceans, subvert Dijon 2*280(23); Cease fire with Zulus and Rome, only war with Mongols; 300, 422, 119, 144, 420, 238, 494; Revolution
    (French sneak attack +kill rifleman in Avignon)
    1806 Switch to Demo, all cities big enough are celebrating; Kill cannon outside Avignon, no deliveries since the box is already full; get roman map
    1808 Comb.->Automobile; Bribe Rouen for 792 (73), Deliveries 245, 442, 362, 368, 638, 468, 407, 428
    (England breaks cease fire and attacks, fails badly)
    1810 Auto->Electronics; Musc on island 1, could have been better; Bribe english cannon for 170, Reading for 188 (incl. engineer), two roman cannons outside Mpondo, I think i know what they are up to, bribe one for 162; 804, 540, 224, 312, 594, 200, 414, 1219
    (Romans kill rifleman, spanish chariot dies attacking alpine)
    1812 Electronics->Machine Tools; Bribe Cadiz for 270 (90); Subvert Paris 2*1328 (90*Pyramids+Marco Polo, instantly rush city walls); 390, 750, 1240, 1152, 820, 382, 442, 596, could get 1 a/t from cities with 80%, not doable
    1814 Machine->MassProd.; 244, 450, 196, 908, 206, 1080, 530, 585, 322, 206
    (French attack Paris, defence holds)
    1816 MassP.->Mini; 901, 462, 486, 1224, 390, 864, 416, 710, 1010, 495, 500; Bribe Zulu Cavalery for 180 to prevent from attacking
    (No more attacks, surprise, surprise!)
    1818 Mini->Computers; Sign peace with France, want to keep their last continental city as trading partner; 840, 1302, 1302, 1292 (the beaker box is waaaaaayyyyy to small), 777 (+some small ones for trade routes)
    1820 Comp.->Communism(Delay flight and we want UN to sign peace)->Atomic Theory(and half-way through); SETI built; 720, 1314, 1386, 1386, 982, 1386, 1242, 858
    (Zulu knight dies in attack on Ngome)
    1822 Atomic->Nucl. Fission->Nucl. Power; Bribe Intombe for 252 (57), Umtata 200 (20); 1150, 624, 1036, 582, 482, 594, 1429, 1037, 874, 1110; Sign peace with all except for Zulus, so we also bribe Isandhlwana for 576(52, 2 engineers also included)
    1824 Nuc.-Power->Espionage->Recycling; Uranium produced; 1140, 1518, 1518, 1020, 792, 320, 1518
    (French sneak attack, kill defender in Avignon)
    1826 Recycl.->Laser->Guerilla; More Uranium produced; Bribe French cannon for 128; 1656, 1212, 6, 1656, 440, 380, 182, 984, 1656, 1656, 1244, 948, 1656
    (England steals Corporation, let them have it)
    1828 Guerilla->Labor->Flight; 1190, 1368, 877, 990, 1104, 547, 1703, 1240, 1264, 394
    1830 Flight->Radio->Refrigeration; 1750, 1152, 1035, 1072, 779, 939, 722, 1750, 1750, 524

    Stats at 1830AD(not end of turn):
    pop.: 85.39M; Cities: 176; techs: 74; gold: 22011; Gov.: Demo; Cost per turn: 658(including 108 superhighways) ; wonders: Pyr, LH, GW, Marco's, Michelangelo, Magellan, Leo, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin, SoL, Hoover, UN, SETI, Cure; TR: ?D/?F
    units: 157 eng, 69 def., 21 off., 7 dip, 3 spy, 80 van, 25 boat
    Goals: Develop terrain, grow, expand, spaceship

    So in 15 turns my population was septupled (is that a real word anyway?)! Costs went up by ... a whole lot more, but there still was enough gold for everything! And everything else was going through the roof as well! It was quite a setback when the AI had built Marco's ~60 AD, I think it was the right decision to pick Demo from the French when I had the chance to and then grow via Fundy and Commy.

    P.S.: Not done yet, 3 more turns to play! I should be done before setting off to Russia on Friday, for the World Cup.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  13. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Wow! your population went from 12M to 85M in a mere 15 turns! That is incredible. Great job.
    I suppose when you say you will be done in 3 turns, you do not mean 3 turns from 1830.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  14. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    This is where I start to fall waaaay behind in techs, it seems! Major got coastal cities on all oceans a fair bit earlier than I did, and got Pyramids early-ish enough to matter. Explains a lot about that just now. I ended up going towards the same strategy (although prioritizing lateral expansion harder, since my English were such pests). Not going for Flight first, however as the northern cities ended up being more useful+immediate returns from domestic STCs to build up arrows on cities so they could keep building vans, for celebrations.
    I had made a status on 1850, so I can't give a comparison for that date. I think I was at around 180 cities for 1830? But only 66 techs at 1850 AD (up to MassProd)

    1802 AD: Pop goes from 25 to 27 million citizens. Shanghai IV built. English: declare WAR on me. Could have waited a few minute to move the units in Gênes III, will lose the city again… I am playing badly and the successful Pyramids gambit is saving my butt. Canton IV built. Nankin IV built. Van for 124g.

    Interturn: GênesIII razed by English, but kill 2 Knights.

    1804 AD: Pop goes from 27 to 30 million citizens. Kill English knight, Roman catapult. Kill defender of size1 Reading, city razed. Tsingtao IV built. Find city of Jerusalem with spy. 2-square vision is useful for scouting.

    Interturn: Repel 2 Knight attacks on various targets.

    1806 AD: Pop goes from 30 to 33 million citizens. Bribe Warwick for 587g: get 96g+Eiffel+3citizens+3muskets+engineer. Fairly close to northern shores. Spy escapes, is vet. Bribe Jerusalem for 212g, get 4back+1c+Market+1unit. Spy captured. Xinjian IV built. ND for 66g. Hangzhou spice (d) to Beijing: 210g. First trade route isn’t that great.

    Interturn: Senate forces cease-fire with English.

    1808 AD: Pop goes from 33 to 35 million citizens. Subvert Hispalis for 105*2g, get 3+60 back and a size1 city. LOL. A spy being wheeled to Byzance revealed an oasis square on an island, that I had not bothered to build a boat to uncover. Chengdu IV built. Hangzhou IV built. Expel English diplomat. T5L4S1. Spy in range of Douvres, but will wait until war is declared. Too expensive otherwise.

    Interturn: English, Spanish start Suffrage.

    1810 AD: Pop goes from 35 to 38 million citizens. Find Roman city of Césaraugusta w/spy. Naples spice (d) to Cannae: 212g. Tienstin IV built. Techrate 8 turns. I really could use more cashflow right now. Cities will have to stay size8 for a while.

    Interturn: Roman cease-fire expired. Units near Jerusalem, city will most likely be razed.

    1812 AD: Pop goes from 38 to 42 million citizens. Césaraugusta bribed for 90g, get 6+60 back and 1c. Get a cease-fire, so Jerusalem will live. Chronic lack of funds… Find English city of Norwich. ND for 83, 79, 106,

    1814 AD: Metallurgy > Conscription. Tatung IV built. Find English city of Birmingham. T6L4S0. Find Roman city of Tarente. Roman Brundisium spotted.

    1816 AD: Pop goes from 42 to 45 million citizens. English: WAR. Kill 2 English catapults. Subvert Roman Tarente for 165*2g, get 8g+2citizens. Cease-fire expires. Bribe Viroconium for 341g, get 24gback+7 citizens. 1 spy vet, other one lost. Bribe Ravenne for 427g, get 17+60 back and 7 citizens. ND for 87, 106g. Find English city of Leeds. Kill Roman Catapult.

    Interturn: English send multiple units to attack me, do not kill a defender. Do however kill an engi.

    1818 AD: Pop goes from 45 to 48 million citizens. Bribe English Douvres for 675g, get 116+60 back and a size4. Cease-fire forced on me, but it’s good. Bribe Cumes for 630g, get 32+60 back and a size 11. Cease-fire forced on me by the Senate for Romans. Macao IV built. Anyang IV built. Shantung IV built. Chinan IV built. Spanish city of Saragosse built. T5L4S1.

    Interturn: London builds Suffrage.

    1820 AD: Pop goes from 48 to 50 million citizens. Brundisium subverted for 204*2g. Spy vet, get 3c+10+60g. Cease-fire expires. Pompei bribed for 400g, Spy vet, get 7c+19+60g, and 3 units. And with that I have my first northern shore city! But it’s facing the Zulus. Not optimal. Kaifeng IV built. Ningpo IV built. T5L3S2. Techrate 3 turns. Riot factor is so strong that I flat-out cannot lower luxes below 30%. Even now I have to hire quite a few entertainers.

    1822 AD: Pop goes to 52 million citizens. Paoting IV built. Yangchow IV built. Naples IV built. Find Zulu city of Ngome. Subvert Syracuse for 160*2g, get 11+60 and 3 citizens. Establish embassy with Zulus. Ngome costs 328*2g to subvert. Only city on mainland for them. I have a Peace score, LOL. Been a while since I ever saw that. Issos IV built. Cunaxa IV built. ND for 118g. Still T5L3S2. Going for rushbuilding marketplaces to handle unrest, increase gold flow, and facilitate future celebrations. Not interested in EL. Or maybe even gold… definitely going for blue however. Annoying that you can’t see the amount of 1gpt improvements you’ve built after Adam Smith’s however. Cannot be sure how close I am.

    Interturn: Roman sneak-attack after cease-fire expires early. They kill defender, one of my cities is size1 and defenseless.

    1824 AD: Conscription > Electricity. Bribe threatening Roman knight for 100g to save size1 Hispalis. Subvert Ngome for 331*2g, get 150+3c and 1 defender. This gets rid of only Zulu city on continent. Find Roman city of Nicomedie. English Brighton is size 14!! Kaifeng spice (d) to Liverpool: 1157g. Yeah baby! ND for 28, 28g. Trade van Q’d for 2 turns, foreign, will T6L3S1.

    Interturn: English start UN. Will have to grab that first…

    1826 AD: Electricity > Refrigeration. Bribe size12 Roman Naples for 840g, get 40+60 back. Good quality city, with good infrastructure. Senate backs me up against Romans, which allows me to bribe rioting Nicomedie. Cremona IV built. Cannae IV built. Capoue IV built. Eyeing bribing Liverpool to get access to Mongol island. The real prize is Hastings, for English island… Valence would be more realistic however. Actually, no. Cunaxa II silk (d) to Naples: 384g. ND for 21, 21g. Bribe Nicomedie for 138g, get 17+6citizens.

    Interturn: Barely repel Spanish Knight attack, city will get to live. Rifle vet.

    1828 AD: Pop exceeds 54 million citizen s. DAMNIT Ulundi lost its gold demand. 616g anyways, even if it wasn’t demanded. Holy. Find Roman Seleucide. Senate signs cease-fire. Don’t care, subvert Seleucide for 190*2g. Get 19g+4c. Will soon have access to French islands. Turin IV built, English city within limits. Exeter is literally empty. We’re good for next turn.

    Interturn: English sneak attack, kill a van. Some attacks are repelled.

    1830 AD: Refrigeration > Tactics. Pop goes from 54 to 56 million citizens. Bribe Saragosse for 135g, get 45 back. Size1. Genes IV built. Kill English crusader, knight, catapult. Crète IV built. Bribe Liverpool for 1687g, get 313back. Size10+5 improvements and 3 defenders+boat. Defense;ess Exeter sacked for 24g. Size 14 Brighton price down to 1550g, but I`m not wiling to 2x that one. Vérone IV built. Sydney coal (d) to Kaifeng: 212g. Nd to Naples for 131, 118g. 72g. Start terraforming the tundra island. Should have started earlier.
     
  15. Major Advantage

    Major Advantage Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2011
    Messages:
    504
    Location:
    Germany
    Mission accomplished! It was no longer fun in the end... :crazyeye: But I reached a new personal best in the hall of fame, with a 4-digits-percentage! :eek::D

    Thanks! I was amazed myself how everything had worked out. And of course, there were still some decades to play after 1830.
     
  16. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    1832 AD: ND for 220, 120g. Salamis IV built as port to French cities. Xinjian III copper (d) to size12 Zimbabwe: 768g. Quite nice… except that the Coal demand is gone. Now Dye/Wine. Ulundi has it for next turn. Find Mongol city of Aleppo built on a mountain. Mongols: demand Metallurgy, no, they don`t declare war. Embassy established. 109 Marketplaces, cost 0. Thanks very much to FoxAhead and his newly updated patch. Spy English city of Richmond. Lisbonne IV built. Hambourg IV built. Prague IV built.

    Interturn: English gov`t overthrown. Some tech trades. Oh wait, forgot I can bribe a size1 city to force cease-fire expiral. I`ll do that next turn.

    1834 AD: Tactics > Electronics. Pop exceeds 61 million citizens. Nvm. Ill wait until a railroad is finished to bribe Brighton. Will take another turn. Find English Cambridge. Almost entirety of the continent is filled. Macao II coal (d) to Ulundi: 650g. NDs for 90, 84, 109. Find Spanish Valladoid, embassy. NDs for 141, 101, 134. Rail network is pretty much done northsouth, now connecting individual cities and preparing ports for trade with AI islands. I never irrigate much until the last, even though I theoretically should (for more engineers) Always something else to do.. Salzbourg IV built. Subvert Valladoid for 264*2g, get 90 back. Size3 city and 4 units. Cease-fire expires.

    Interturn: English swap tp Republic. Mongols acquire Communism from Zulus, Zulus get Theology from Mongols. Spanish sneak attack, kill 2 Engineers.

    1836 AD: Electronics > Steel. Pop exceeds 62 million citizens. Bergen IV built. Brighton is in unrest… this is too good. Subvert Richmond for 223*2g, get 57 back. Size1+1 defender. Cease-fire expires. Bribe Brighton for 820g, get 419+60 back+size 14 city, and 9 improvements. Wow. F. Forgot to cash in Kaifeng salt van+another silk van from an island city. Send the salt van to Coventry instead for 442g. Naples spice (d) to Paris: 1280g. Was capped. And I have exactly 1920/1920! That doesn`t happen too often. Seems like I ran out of spies, oof.. Bribe Coventry for 852g, get 201 back+size8 city. Will now try to reduce AI civs to their home islands. Venise IV built. 37g. Leeds bribed for 175g, get 79+40 back and a size3. Spy escapes. Just checked my GOTM score. It`s not great… too many turns used up. but at least I have the entirety of the continent under my control. I think it would make the lategame easier.

    Interturn: English steal Electronics from me. Romans sneak attack, but fail to kill a unit.

    1838 AD: Sydney III needs food irrigation to grow to size3. Pop goes to 66 million citizens. Canterbury is the one building UN. Kaifeng spice (d) to Canterbury: 1218g. Hastings bribed for 683g, get 244back+Shakes+7c. Kill 2 English Frigates with newly acquired one of mine. Bribe Birmingham for 154g, get 106 back. Cordoue bribed for 91g, get 23+60 back. Milan IV built. Xinjian II silk (d) to Naples: 374g. Cambridge bribed for 180g, get 46 back. Ghent IV built. Find Spanish Barcelone. Valence bribed for 480g, get 150g back+… Phalanx? Really… Viroconium copper (d) to Naples: 438g. T7L3S0. Shantung II cloth (d) to Karakorum: 455g. Now have the resources to perma-celebrate at 30%. And it will stay there for the remainder of the game.

    Interturn: Lose Frigate to English. Will have to build a few destroyers to clear the seas. Lose freight to Romans. Same thing here. Maybe even Zulus, going forward. They have a relatively sizeable navy.

    1840 AD: Something > Guerilla. Only thing that was useful. TSINGTAO HOOVER DAM. Pop exceeds 60 million citizens. Subvert Barcelone, last Spanish city on mainland, for 520g, get 174+120g. and 6 citizens. Beijing9 III silk (d) to Canterbury: 420g. Bribe Oxford for 177g, get size1+SoL+17+60g. Cease-fire forced by Senate. Subvert Norwich for 69g, get 26g+120g back. Cease-fire expires. Bribe Canterbury for 598g, get 190+60 back and GL. Size6 and lots of improvements. Find Zulu city of Swazi, literally founded last turn. Bribe Spanish settler for 280g, it builds Pise IV. Dublin IV built. ND for 130, 107, 89, 131, 121, 189, 226. ND for 151, unblocks Copper in Naples, Douvres copper (d) to Naples: 406g. 139, 145. Toronto IV built. Bribe Zulu Catapult, then subvert Swazi for 50*2g. Get size1 city, empty, and 29g. Melbourne IV built. Artaxata silver (d) to Bapedi: 330g. 68, 14. 22. Need to start stockpiling Oil vans for future deliveries.

    Interturn: English kill a spy, lose 2 Frigates to Rifleman. Romans kill a freight, lose an ironclad.

    1842 AD: Guerilla > Machinery. Pop exceeds 74 million citizens. Kill Roman frigate with newly built Cruiser: vet. Naples III silk (d) to Kaifeng: 296g. ND for 143, 86, 123, 131, 157, 176. Venise silk (d) to Naples: 296g. ND for 115, 124g. Just trying to get trade routes in cities so they can celebrate. Sydney IV built. Yangchow III gems (d) to Madrid: 534g. ND to Hlobane for 200g.

    1844 AD: Machinery > Combustion. Will scrap the Flight-first strategy. Trade is already up, so I`ll exploit it for more. Pop exceeds 78 million citizens. GOTM score ain`t going high that quickly… ND for 93. Kill English ironclad with Cruiser: vet. Kill Roman crusader with Cruiser. Gênes wine (d) to Zimbabwe: 1065g. Cunaxa III silk (d) to Kaifeng: 368g. ND for 82, 206. Beijing V and Shanghai V built. ND for 246g, 214, 188, 98.

    Interturn: English frigate suicides on Hastings rifleman.

    1846 AD: Size 3 cities can no longer celebrate, even with Temple… this is going to be a problem. Combustion > Miniaturization. Pop exceeds 82 million citizens. Nicomédie silk (d) to Kaifeng: 710g. NDs for 136, 268, 170, 149. Kill Roman crusader with cruiser. 151. 84. 79. I might need UN soon to force peace treaties. Help trade. Foreign ND for 184, 186, 156, 200, 204. Kill Roman crusader in a mountain fortress with Cruiser, my cruiser takes 40% damage before landing a hit. Canton V built. Nankin V built. ND for 368g. Pise II coal (d) to Bokhara: 420g. 142g. CANTON II needs IRRIGATION.

    Interturn: Zulus steal Atomic Theory from me. I declare war. My crusader is at 60%... will not be able to instantly clear the seas.

    1848 AD: Miniaturization > Automobile. Pop exceeds 86 million citizens. Xinjian II dye (d) to Zimbabwe: 820g. Everything blocked… ND for 362g. Bergen wine (d) to Zimbabwe: 1110g. ND for 332g. Tsingtao V built on mountain island. Can you tell that it was low-priority? Now gonna build cities on glacier squares next. (POST-GAME EDIT: I was under the impression that FoxAhead`s patch removed the 255-city limit. I was misinformed, it does not.)

    Interturn: Kill 1 Zulu Frigate, and lose 1 Rifleman to Zulu attacks.

    1850 AD: Now having to rush Banks at size 9-10 in order to keep celebrations going in select cities. Automobile > Mass Production. Pop exceeds 91 million citizens. Kill Zulu land stack. Kill English ironclad. Cease-fire with Romans. English: cease-fire. 130g, 444. Milan II dye (d) to Bapedi: 312g. 248. Salamis II dye (d) to Ulundi: 424g, Tarente coal (d) to Kaifeng: 434g. Chinan III silkl (d) to Kaifeng: 456g. Xinjian V built.

    NOTE: Do the Status at 1850 AD tomorrow. Too tired to do it tonight.



    STATUS AT 1850AD: (End of 251st turn)

    Population: 91.260.000 Cities: 213 (79 cities in 25 turns!) Government: Democracy Total advances: 66 (researching Mass Production)
    Gold: 92 T7L3S0 Income/Cost per turn: 5294 income, 339 cost. Production: 1547MT Trade: 9848arrows

    Units: 149 Engineers, 31 Riflemen, 3 Cavalry, 3 Cruisers, 18 Transports, 5 Spies, 157 Freight.

    Wonders: Almost everything. Foreign civs have almost nothing. Still do not have UN.



    GOALS: Right now? I have a great railroad network for vans. However, Goto doesn`t always use them. Lay down railways where the most common van roads are, and let the AI save the rest of your time. Apart from that, get irrigation going where the food output is less than 2 per turn. Those size2 cities in the middle of the plains aren`t gonna grow by themselves, and it`s critically important now that I maximize pop from every city if I want to maintain my GOTM score. Could irrigate the bigger cities to get entertainers-engineers, but I`m fairly close to the end + happy citizens are worth more points than entertainers (by default 1pts) At turn 250, it`s gonna get more and more difficult to keep above water. Could try to squeeze some cities on the south pole cap, or anywhere I can sustain them. I can grow the cities back in an instant anyways, since I have so many black hats+instant celebrations.

    I also run into the problem of support for engineers. I have 150 of them, but need food space to do more… Should I do the disband-engi strat near enemy cities, to get a steady stream of NONES from celebrating cities? I have six islands to do that: and I think that the investment in gold can be justified at this point in time. (Could possibly have to invest into more vans short-term. Most vans are Oil vans rn, which are useless until Radio/Airports ship them south.) I can do 1 in Spanish, 1 in English, 2 in Mongol, 1 in Roman, 1 in Zulu, and 1 in France. To do that, I will also need UN… That`s a few turns (5?) still. Fortuntately I have doubled up on ships for all islands except one, so it won`t interfere with trade a whole lot.

    Growth-wise? My home cities are size12+ or above, things are solid for them. The mainland cities still tend to be capped to size8ish due to unrest, I need to get trade routes going for them. How much of a priority over the NONE engineers? (Which cost 220g apiece+the original rush cost… although if a city has nothing to build it can build Spies to bring the rush cost to 65ish gold once disbanded. Brighton could do that actually) Still, I want the vans rushed, and the trade routes established ASAP if possible. STCs just got Superhighways, maybe that helps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  17. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Messages:
    524
    Analysis: Looks like my game is starting to fall decisively behind. I was fairly even with Major Advantage up to this point, but he got access to the AI islands earlier than me thanks to his warmongering, which allowed him to abuse trade bonuses way earlier. My infrastructure is not even close to his at this point now.

    I notice that both Ali and Major Advantage used explorers to pop huts, relying on that to help expansion (whereas I sent settlers alone, only building horsemen/warriors after getting ashore). In Major`s case, he got ATs closer to the northern border for free, which I assume helped a bunch for covering ground quickly, in a lot of different areas: Turf War-style almost. I still can`t believe how hard his empire grew after getting access to the island AI civs. The "snowball" did happen in the end: but not the way I expected it to. GG fellas.

    Speaking of Seafaring, I did not get Seafaring until 750 AD by trading, too late to be of use. I wonder if detour-ing for Seafaring in the late BCs would be a viable strategy for hut-hunting. (This assumes Marco`s is too late to be of use, and can`t trade for it.) You wouldn't have to deal with settler food costs that way, and could send a boat much earlier.

    Grigor did finish his LH around 1000 BC. I wonder if he sent explorers, or if such a strategy is optimally viable.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
  18. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    May 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,930
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    +1800 to +1830

    This was the period of conquest and expansion on the continent. My population, number of cities, number of Engineers, and number of airports (13 -> 19) all went up by 50%. My infrastructure cost more than doubled. Tech tree was finished early in this period. I would have considered lowering science in favor of taxes in this period and did so on a few occasions but for the most part, offshore domestic trade paid for everything. Most importantly, space race started in this period; I have a 10s5c3m space ship at the end of this period.

    +1802 The other 2 Spanish crusaders move right next to my cities. Fusion power -> Horseback riding. One Spanish crusader bribed for 154g. Roman Hispalis bribed for 146g. Got 9g, Horseback riding (main goal), a soldier, and 4 structures. Senate hands cease fire to Romans. 2 English and 1 Mongol units killed. Bakhtiar founded. Domestic deliveries for 498. T4L2S4

    +1804 Tank on river survives English crusader. Spanish crusader backs off. -> Amphibious Warfare -> Communism. 2 English and 1 Mongol units killed. Kufeh, Bahrain, and Mamasani founded. The south shore of the continent is now fully settled. Domestic deliveries for 1120, 348. T2L2S6

    +1806 Alpine survives Mongol crusader. Romans develop leadership and back off from Hispalis. Spanish lurk around Lahijan but do not attack. Communism -> Espionage -> Guerrilla Warfare. Spanish Valladolid subverted for 2x420g to give me a foot hold in the northern part of the continent. Got 44g, musketeer, and 3 structures. 100g from mountain hut. Arbil and Sanjaab founded. Domestic deliveries for 788, 440, 727. Gems to Spanish for 1056.

    +1808 Mongols build suffrage; all others abandon. Romans break cease fire and kill a knight in fort. Spanish lurk around Lahijan but do not attack. Guerrilla Warfare -> Labor Union -> Future Tech 1. 1 Roman and 1 English units killed. Exploring Horseman disbanded. Mongol Tabriz razed for 43g. Arzhang, Shervan, and Semnan founded. Domestic deliveries for 65, 466. T4L2S4

    +1810 Spanish steal Fusion power from Valladolid. I do not get the choice to declare war. Their forces back away from Lahijan. UN built. Future Tech 1 -> 2. 2 English, 1 Mongol, and 1 Roman units killed. Spanish explorer blocking river bribed for 156g. 2 riflemen defending Mongol Kashgar killed by stealth fighter and the city taken for 86g and barracks. Kashan founded. Domestic deliveries for 850, 156, 1010, 2385 (oil, both ends have airport). T2L2S6

    +1812 Mongols steal Fusion power from Kashgar. Zulu break cease fire and kill a musketeer in fort. Spanish back off from Lahijan. Future Tech 2 -> 3 -> 4. 1 English, 1 Roman, 1 Zulu units killed. Stealth fighter kills rifleman defending Nishapur. The city is captured for 235g and marketplace. It is my first city on the northern coast of the continent. Mongols are now off the continent. Nearby Roman Neapolis bribed for 592g. Got 39g, 2 riflemen, and 3 structures. Arran founded. Domestic deliveries for 517, 826, 954.

    +1814 Romans put a cannon next to Neapolis and ask for peace; senate hands it to them. Spanish move back towards Lahijan. Future Tech 4 -> 5 -> 6. 1 Zulu, 1 English units killed. Senate backs me up against the English. Explosives -> Roman -> maps. Zanjan founded. Domestic deliveries for 58, 555.

    +1816 Future Tech 6 -> 7. English cannon killed. English Dover bribed for 444g. Spy lost. Got 34g, soldier, and 2 structures. Senate hands cease fire to the English. English cannon bribed for 128g. English Canterbury subverted for 2x370g. Spy lost. Got 27g, 2 musketeers, 1 diplomat, 9 structures!, and King Richard's. Romans declare war when I ask them to move troops. Roman diplomat killed. Roman Ravenna bribed for 365g. Spy turned vet. Got 31g, 2 soldiers, 1 settler, and 2 structures. Senate hands cease fire to Romans as well. Roman Lugdunum subverted for 2x288g. Got 19g, 3 soldiers, and a temple. Tabas and Hamadan founded. Domestic deliveries for 355, 840.

    +1818 Future Tech 7 -> 8. Spanish declare war rather than move troops. 4 Spanish units killed. Spanish activate their alliance and English declare war on me! Spanish Bilbao razed for 11g. Stealth fighter kills 4 defenders of Hastings and the city is captured for 44g and 2 structures. Senate hands peace to English. Halabche founded. Domestic deliveries for 36.

    +1820 Future Tech 8 -> 9 -> 10. Spanish Granada razed for 11g. 2 Spanish units killed. Romans declare war rather than move troops. 4 Roman units killed. Roman Virconium bribed for 584g. Got 47g, marketplace, rifleman, and 2 Frigates. Senate backs me up against Romans. Roman Pompeii bribed for 642g. Spy turned vet. Got 57g, 3 riflemen, settler, and 3 structures. Romans are now off the continent as well. Ardabil founded. Domestic deliveries for 654, 684, 310, 1002, 738.

    +1822 English steal Plastics; I declare war. Future Tech 10 -> 11 -> 12. Two defenders of English Coventry killed and the city captured for 52g and 2 structures. Sent English emissary away and senate did not interfere! Liverpool bribed for 350g. Got 50g, 3 soldiers, and 3 structures. English settler bribed for 228g. 5 Spanish and 3 Zulu units killed. Dashtak founded on the plains island. Domestic deliveries for 474, 480, 512, 540, 742, 1172.

    +1824 Romans lose a crusader attacking my city. Future Tech 12 -> 13 -> 14. Space race starts with one component: 0s1c0m. Again sent the English emissary away and no senate interference. (Did some experimentation and for some unknown reason this only works for English.) 1 English, 1 Spanish, 1 Zulu units killed. 3 musketeers defending Zulu Isandhlwana killed with a stealth fighter and the city captured by paratrooper for 105g and 2 structures. Senate hands peace to Zulu. Intombe subverted for 2x491g. Lost vet spy. Got 92g, diplomat, 3 musketeers, a settler, and 4 structures. Mpondo subverted for 2x290g. Vet spy escaped. Got 50, musketeer, and 4 structures. Senate hands peace to Mongols and Spanish. Domestic deliveries for 558, 23, 650.

    +1826 Future Tech 14 -> 15. 4s2c2m. English diplomat killed. Zulu Ngome subverted for 2x217g. Got 74g, marketplace, and 3 soldiers. Zulu are off the continent now. Spanish Barcelona subverted for 2x736g. Got 85g, 4 soldiers, and 4 structures. Rudsar founded. Manchester founded by formerly English setter. Domestic deliveries for 55, 30, 524, 1112, 584, 523, 452.

    +1828 Spanish steal space flight; I declare war. Future Tech 15 -> 16 -> 17. 7s3c2m. Spanish Cadiz bribed for 178g. Got 22g and musketeer. Spanish dragoon killed. Senate hands cease fire to Spanish. Saragossa subverted for 2x220g. Lost spy. Got 32g and 2 soldiers. Kirkuk and Nakhjavan founded. Domestic deliveries for 58, 56, 674.

    +1830 Zulu sneak attack and kill a crusader and a stealth fighter. Spanish steal superconductor; I declare war. Spanish kill my explorer. Future Tech 17 -> 18. 10s5c3m. Lost a musketeer attacking Zulu and my Stealth fighter attacking Valencia. Vet tank kills last defender of Valencia and captures it for 103g and barracks. Senate backs me up against Spanish. 2 Zulu, 1 Spanish, 1 English units killed. Newcastle bribed for 504g. Got 55g, rifleman, settler, and 2 structures. Domestic deliveries for 435, 104, 274, 1120, 480, 1316. Coal to Spanish for 77. Beads to English for 88.


    Status at +1830
    Population: 96.6M; Cities: 130; Techs: All+17FT; Government: Democracy
    Gold: 686; Cost: 807; Trade routes: 222;
    Ancient Wonders: Lighthouse
    Medieval Wonders: Marco, Michelangelo, Copernicus, Magellan, Shakespeare, King Richard
    Industrial Wonders: Leo, Bach, Adam Smith, Darwin
    Modern Wonders: Cure, Hoover, SETI, Apollo, UN
    Units: 4 settlers, 71 Engineers (2 None), 1 Legion, 10 musketeer, 1 alpine, 22 Riflemen, 1 paratrooper, 6 crusaders, 1 knights, 2 tanks, 1 cannon, 2 fighter planes, 1 frigate, 10 transports, 1 diplomats, 3 spy, 33 vans, 1 explorer
    Goals: Tipping the last remaining hut, strategic expansion on the continent, more road and rail network on the continent, conquering remaining rival cities (2 Spanish, 2 English) on the continent, finishing the space race
    Footprint: 2 cities on glacier, 4 on tundra, 3 on hill, 3 on mountain, 5 on forest, 2 on swamp, 4 on jungle, 5 on plains, 4 on desert, 4 on grassland, 1 on island 10, 1 on island 11, 1 on inland island 9, 91 on the continent.
    Roman: 4 cities, 52 techs; Hanging Gardens, Great Library, Eiffel; allied with Mongols, war with me
    Zulu: 4 cities, 47 techs; Great Wall, Sun Tzu; allied with Spanish, war with me
    French: 3 cities, 36 techs; Pyramids, Liberty
    Spanish: 5 cities, 52 techs; allied with Zulu and English, war with me
    English: 5 cities, 52 techs; Colossus, Newton; allied with Spanish, war with me
    Mongol: 3 cities, 52 techs; Suffrage; allied with Romans
     
  19. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    353
    I have played to 1700.

    1000 BC to 1 AD

    Status 1000 BC
    6C, 3 Sett gov: Monarchy LH
    5 Warr, 2 Trireme.
    8 tech, res Myst (27/126)



    Rest and Plan
    Send 2 Settlers North (Tundra)
    Finish Coal Mines, then found Middle Hills with 2 stetlers.
    Found city on Forest island to be a SSC
    Hope for PYR for growth in the main continent.
    Pop all 5 huts
    Next proximate Tech goal: Mono.

    SO: send one trireme north. Pop huts enroute, but get 2 settlers to the main continent ASAP
    Keep one trireme in south for vans
    I don’t need more cities in the south for a while. Happiness in Deity is an issue.
    Mining Mountain is useful.
    Road home glacier may be useful.
    Seafaring could be helpful, but I need to prepare for a wonder race.

    950 Romans start HG. That’s not good. 2 settlers to trireme.
    RB first rows.
    900. hut: Nomad on Forest isle.
    875 Forest City (7) – will make warriors and then vans. Mountain builds warrior.
    850 hut: Pottery.
    775 Myst=> Wri. First mine on Hills island finished. I will also mine 2nd coal.

    Status 750 BC
    7C, 4 Sett gov: Monarchy LH 10 tech res Wri
    7 Warr, 2 Trireme
    (5 Vans in production)


    Plans:
    Continue to main continent
    Deliver Tundra van to Nunavut. Then build HG.
    Make another Trireme in Hills.
    Hope to get Masonry in time for PYR.

    650 hut: Seafaring. Harbors will be nice, but I won't get Pyramids.
    550 French almost done with PYR. Wri=> HB
    525* Orleans builds Pyramids. Lost that one.
    Tundra Beads to Nunavut (d, 64)
    500 deliver vans for HG in Forest City.

    Status 500AD
    7C, 4 Sett gov: Monarchy LH 12 Tech, res HB
    11 Warr,, 3 trireme, 1 Van


    Progress:
    Cities: +0
    Tech: +2
    Wonders: +0

    Plan:
    HG next turn.
    Colossus, MPE on the agenda
    Trade with Forest City (hides)
    Complete Southern Civilization: Mid Hills, Jungle, Swamp
    Continue to main continent.
    Consider Palace in Forest City. Or Courthouse.
    Priority: Get to Mono (HB, Lit, Phil, Poly, Mono.) Use van Deliveries.

    475 Forest City builds HG. Mid Hills (8)

    425* Hut: East Fish. It is not in the 4-special spot. For now, build a horse for continental defense.
    400 Nunavut Copper to Tundra (d, 64)
    375 HB=> Lit

    350 Reached Main Continent.

    325* South Port founded on main continent
    Set lux to 30 for van delivery.

    275 Tundra Beads to Forest City (d, 76) Lux back to 0.

    Status 250BC
    10C, 2 Sett gov: Monarchy LH, HG
    13 Warr, 1 Horse, 3 Trireme, 5 Van.
    13 tech res Lit
    2 Domestic trade routes.



    Progress:
    Cities: +3
    Tech: +1
    Wonders: +1

    Colossus next turn
    Need a trade van for Republic.
    Also Vans for Mono
    Then 8 vans for MC, then Republic, then push to Demo

    Main continent: get to 4 cities ASAP. Will need exploring units and maybe some defense.
    East Fish: Settler to relocate city.

    Homeland:
    This can be a Science Bonanza.
    Settle Jungle and Swamp
    2 more cities on Forest
    Harbors when available in:
    Nunavut, East Hills, Tundra
    MP in Tundra

    225* French start GW
    200 Romans almost done Colossus. Forest City builds Colossus. Romans switch to GW. Lit=> Republic

    150 Hut: horse (South Port)
    125* Zulus start MPE. Uh-oh
    100 Macao (11) on river. Hut: Chariot (Macao)

    50 Hut: Anyang (12) at River Confluence.
    25* Republic=>> Phil. No Revolt (too early) Hut: Legion (Macao)
    1AD Hut: West Port. (13) Hut: 9 barbs. Horse dies.

    Status 1AD
    13C, 2 Sett gov: Monarchy LH, HG, Colossus
    14 Warr, 1 Horse, 1 Chariot, 1 Legion, 1 Dip, 1 Explorer.
    3 Trireme, 8 Van.
    15 tech res Phil
    2 Domestic trade routes.


    Progress:
    Cities: +3
    Tech: +2
    Wonders: +1
     
  20. grigor

    grigor Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    353
    1 AD to Republic
    I will deliver a van next turn.
    Having a race to MPE.
    Need another van delivery for Mono, but if I win to Philosophy I can switch to Republic. Should be able to swap techs thru the next crummy spot.
    Need another boat in the South.
    Demo path: Wheel, Constr, Banking, Engineering, Invention

    20 Zulus abandon MPE. Good.
    East Hills Copper to Forest City (d, 108)
    40 Forest City builds Courthouse. East Hills Temple. Hut: 50g.
    60* Hut: Barbs. Explorer will die.
    80 Philosophy, Poly=> Mono. It should be OK to change to Republic in 3 turns.
    Chariot takes out a barb horse => vet.
    100 Barbs capture West Port. I remember all those Peaster games and do not despair.
    120 West Port bribed back for 52g, get a horse. Revolution
    140* Rome builds GW. Gov: Republic.
     

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