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GOTM 203 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by WildPony, Jan 4, 2020.

  1. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Decided to play this as a One City Game.

    Features: Emperor Level, Open Map, Alphabet, Bronze.

    4000: Stepped to the 4 special Forest.
    3950: Built Capitol. > Size One Settler.
    3900: > Code of Laws (10).
    3450: Size One Settler emerges and begins irrigation upon the forest city square. Amidst various possibilities, decided to build a 2nd size one Settler. Code of Laws > Writing.
    3250: Completion of deforestation project. Settler production rushed from 18 > 20.
    3100: Completion of road on Grass/shield.
    2950: Road on Wheat.
    2900: 2nd Size One Settler > Warrior. Settler doubles up on Wheat irrigation project.
    2800: Writing > Literacy (33). Completion of Irrigation on Wheat and with 17 food in the box, this square is chosen and provides a +1 food surplus.
    2700: Road on Plain. Other Settler with one turn of stored work and a 2 of 3 chance to reach the Fur was able to make it.
    2650: Road on Fur. 20 Food in the box.
    2600: 1 > 2. One of the 2 Settlers joins city which further increases in size from 2 > 3. 1st Warrior > 2nd Warrior. Grass/shield instead of Fur to have this warrior in two turns.
    2500: 2nd Warrior > Colossus. Shifted from Grass/shield square to Fur.

    2500 bc Summary: Despotism, Size 3, 4 techs with Literacy in progress @ 11/30. No buildings. Units: 1 settler, 2 warriors. Income: Sci 4, Gold 3, Shields 4. Treasury: 24.

    2250: With irrigation progress on Fur @ 9/10, Lux is set to 60% to initiate a celebration. Beaker cost of Literacy shifts from 30 > 33 and is thus delayed a turn.
    2200: Literacy > Republic (48 with anticipated 1650 Oedo). Celebration. S > 60 / L > 40. Science production is now 5 and food surplus has increased from 2 > 4.
    1950: Completion of irrigation on Grass/shield.
    1650: Republic > Map Making. (Currency not offered). L 50 to initiate (or maintain) Celebration. S 50. Disbanded both warriors inside city. Wonder @ 81/200.
    1600: 4 > 5. End of Celebration for now. S 60 / L 40.
    1400: Completion of Mine on Hill and this square is chosen increasing net shields from 5 > 7.
    1300: Map Making > Currency (78).
    1200: Mined hill receives road.

    1000 bc Summary: Republic, Size 5 (and 6 next turn via food growth). Colossus production @ 162/200. 7 techs with Currency @ 54/78. No buildings. Units: 1 settler. Income: 8 gross shields (7 net) and 9/8 next turn. 7 science (8 next turn). Treasury: 57.

    975: 5 > 6 (via food growth). Completion of irrigation on Plain.
    925: Currency > Trade (91).
    875: Colossus > Trireme.
    750: Trade > Ceremonial Burial (112). Trireme > Wonder Caravan. Trireme explores one step to open up the whale and the remaining ocean squares within the city perimeter and then goes back into the city to disband, allowing the city to produce 10 net shields to hasten completion of the next 8 wonder caravans and 3 Trade caravans. Caravan rushed 20 > 30 > 40.

    750 bc Summary: Colossus. No wonders in progress. Republic size 6, 9 techs. No buildings, 1 Settler. Treasury: 10.

    725: 1st Wonder Caravan > 2nd.
    625: 2nd Wonder Caravan > 3rd.
    550: 3rd Wonder Caravan > 4th. Final work is done in capitol and Settler is disbanded.
    500: 4th Wonder Caravan > Marco's and 4 caravans fill 200 shields.

    500 bc Summary: Colossus and Marco's to emerge next turn. Republic, Size 6. 9 techs, No buildings, no units. Treasury: 50 gold.

    475: Marco's.

    Summary of Diplomacy:
    Picked up 11 techs: Masonry, Pottery, Construction, Mysticism, Iron Working, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Horseback Riding, Polytheism, The Wheel. Bridge Building.
    Alliances with: Rome (100 gift), Vikings (150 gift), America (0 gift). No alliances with Spain and Mongols who are at war with one or more of these allies and no alliance with Babylon as yet who is free of wars.

    450: Received 150 gold from America to declare War on Icy Spain. Gifted two civs their tech in progress. Treasury: 408.
    425: Completion of 1st current wonder Caravan. Babylon becomes 4th alliance and they elected to not gift gold to me.
    375: 2nd Wonder caravan > 3rd. 6 > 7 via food growth. All maps except for Spain's with whom there is war.
    325: 3rd Wonder Caravan > Lighthouse. 3 Caras and 200 Gold fill 200 shields.
    300: Lighthouse. Spain destroys the American civ.
    275: Gifts: Rome 50, Vikes 50,
    250: 1st Trade Caravan. Gifts requested: Babylon which offered only their Sympathy.
    225: No gifts requested.
    200: 1st current Trireme.
    175: Babylon completes Math and i traded them for it. Gifts received: Rome 25, Babylon 50, Vikes 25.
    150: 2nd Trade Caravan and Trireme sets sail. Gifts received: Rome 25, Babylon 50, Vikes 25.
    125: 3rd Trade Caravan.
    100: Gifts received: Rome 25, Babylon 50, Vikes 25.
    75: Temple. Celebration. Gifts received: Rome 50, Babylon 25.
    50: 7 > 8.
    25: Aqueduct. 8 > 9. Gifts received: Rome 50, Babylon 50, Vikes 50.
    1ad: Colosseum. 9 > 10.

    1ad Summary: Colossus, Marco's, Lighthouse. Republic, size 10. Buildings: Temple, Aqueduct, Colosseum. Units: 3 trade caravans, 1 Trireme.

    20: 10 > 11. Rome develops Banking and i traded them for it.
    40: Marketplace. 11 > 12.
    60: > Astronomy (546). Wanted Philosophy, but the only other choice was Invention. 1st trade of game, Demanded Bead to size 1 Aarhas: 364 (which is the max possible). Sci > 80.
    80: Library.
    100: 1st Wonder Caravan. Spain develops Monarchy. Waiting to trade for it.
    120: Astronomy > Philosophy (598). 2nd Wonder Caravan. 2nd Trade of Game: Demanded Beads to Karakorum: 398. Gift received from Rome: 50. Gifted Key Civ 3 techs.
    140: 3rd Wonder Caravan.
    160: Philosophy > Medicine > Sanitation. 4th Wonder Caravan.
    180: Bank. Gifts received: Rome 50, Babylon 50, Vikes 0.
    200: 5th Wonder Caravan. Gift: Vikes 50. S 80 / T 20 / L 0. 5 Wonder Caras and 200 Gold fill 300 shields.
    220: Shakespeare's. 3rd Trade: Undemanded Cloth to size 4 Nishapur: 364.
    240: 1st (current) Wonder Caravan. L 20. Gift received: Vike 50.
    260: Sanitation > Seafaring. Celebration. Babylonians undertake Copernicus, a wonder i absolutely must build : ). Receptive Spain has refused to trade me Monarchy for the past several turns and continues to resist. Gift received: Vike 25.
    280: Sewer. 12 > 13. New alliance with the Mongols and received 100 from them. This came at the cost of having to declare war against Spain and dinging my reputation down to honorable. Also received 50 from Babylon and 25 from the Vikes.
    300: 13 > 14. 2nd wonder caravan. Gift received: Babylon 50.
    320: 14 > 15. 3rd wonder caravan. Spain completes Great Library and Hanging Gardens. Babylon switches production to Copernicus and the Mongols to King Rick's. Will minimize risk of losing Copernicus and Rush it as soon as possible. No gifts received and not enough gold to rush it this turn, thus rushed next Wonder Caravan instead.
    340: 15 > 16. Awaiting Seafaring for continued growth. T 80 / S 20. 4th wonder caravan. Gift: Vike 25. 4 Caras + 400 gold fill 300 shields. S > 80, T 20.
    360: Copernicus. Gifts: Babylon 50, Vike 50.
    380: Mongols develop Invention. Gift: Vike 50.
    400: Seafaring > University. Gifted Seafaring to the Vikes and the Roman's still need it. No gifts.
    420: Mongol's build Rick's. Gifted Rome Seafaring. No gold received. Celebration.
    440: Harbor. 16 > 17.
    460: 17 > 18. University > Theory of Gravity. Mongols 75. Tax to 80.
    480: 18 > 19. Mongols break ground on Leo's. Sci to 80.
    500: 19 > 20. University (building).
    520: 20 > 21.
    540: 21 > 22. Mongols 50.
    560: 22 > 23. End of Celebration for now. Vikes 50, Mongols 50.
    580: 4th Wonder Caravan. Total gifts: 125.
    600: 5th Wonder Caravan. Mongols 50.
    620: Theory of Gravity > Democracy (Oedo 700). 6th wonder caravan. 6 caras and 400 gold fill 400 shields. Mongols 50. S 30 / T 70.
    640: Sir Isaac's. Receptive Spanish in cease fire develop Feudalism. Holding off on seeking to trade for this, but most likely would not be able to at this point even if i wanted to.
    660: 1st wonder Caravan. Gifts 50 + 50.
    680: Vikes develop Navigation, traded them for it and i gifted it to the appropriate recipient. 2nd wonder caravan. Mongols 100.
    700: Democracy > Economics. 3rd Wonder Caravan. S 60 for a 2 turn tech. L 20 / T 20. Mongols 50.
    720: Celebration. 4th Wonder Caravan.
    740: Economics > Chemistry. 23 > 24. 5th Wonder Caravan. Gold caravan becomes available to build.
    760: Gold Caravan. Sails towards Uppsala. 24 > 25. End of food surplus and celebration for now. L > 0. Net gift receipts 100.
    780: Leo's. Chemistry > Physics. Mongols switch wonder production from Leo's to Great Wall, Spanish from Leo's to Sun Tzu's keeping the competition for Magellan's minimal. Mongols 100.
    800: Stock Exchange. Spain completes Sun Tzu's. Mongols 100.
    Interim: Mongols develop Gunpowder.
    820: Chemistry > Gunpowder... and traded the Mongols for it. 1st Wonder Caravan. Vikes developed Physics, traded them for it and gifted it to the two others researching it. Mongols 100.
    Interim: Russians develop Monotheism and begins production on Mike's.
    840: > Magnetism (Explosives not offered). Russia would not trade Mono since they are too busy building Mike's.
    860: Magnetism > Explosives. Vikes 100, Mongols 50.
    880: Vikes 150, Mongols 100.
    900: Explosives > Feudalism (1040). Traded Spain for Feudalism. 3rd Wonder Caravan. Gold demand in Uppsala disappears and there is no other demanding city that is reachable. 4th Trade of game: Undemanded Gold to Uppsala: 268. Triggers availability of a Gem.
    920: Gem Caravan. > Metallurgy. Net gifts: 0 (50 - 50).
    940: Power rating shifts causing a delay in reaching Metallurgy. 1st Engineer. 25 > 24. Net gifts 50.
    Interim: Russians have nearly completed Mike's.
    960: Metallurgy > Monotheism. Electricity towards Refrig. not offered so we chose the tech for which we will be able to trade as soon as Mike's completes. 2nd Engineer, 24 > 23. Received 100. 3 Wonder Caravans and 1000 gold fill 400 shields.
    Interim: Russia builds Mike's.
    980: Magellan's. Traded Russia for Monotheism and gifted it to the Mongol peoples. Gifts @ Weak: 50, 0.
    1000: > Electricity. 3rd Engineer. 23 > 22. Gifts received @ weak: 50, 0, 150.

    1000 ad Summary: Colossus, Marco's, Lighthouse, Shakespeare's, Copernicus, Sir Isaac's, Leo's, Magellan's. Democracy, size 22. 4 Trades. 43 Techs and 44th is anticipated next turn. Buildings: Temple, Aqueduct, Colosseum, Marketplace, Library, Bank, Sewer, Harbor, University, Stock Exchange. Units: 1 trade caravan, 3 Engineers, 1 Galleon. Treasury: 132.

    1020: Electricity > Steam Engine. Refrigeration not offered. 4th Engineer. City square: Plain > Grassland. 2 of 4 engineers set sail with the goal of building trade roads. Gifts: 50, 0.
    1040: No unit or building. Gifts: 50, 50, 0, 200.
    1060: Steam Engine > Refrigeration. Gifted Steam to the 3 civs researching it. 1st Diplomat > Bead Caravan which just became available to build. Gifts: 50, 100.
    1080: Bead Caravan. 4th trade road connects other pre-existing roads and the southern shore of Midlands connects to Trondheim on the Midlands northern coast. Gem is set to land next turn. Gifts: 50, 0, 100, 100.
    1100: Refrigeration > Railroad (Towards Industrialization/Corporation). 5th Trade: Demanded Gem to Trondheim: 780. Gifts: 50, 0, 75.
    1120: Railroad > Conscription (Industrialization not offered). Supermarket. Gifts: 0, 100. 2nd Plain > Grassland. Farmland x 6 is next.
    1140: Gifts: 100, 50.
    1160: Conscription > Industrialization. 2nd Diplomat. 6th Trade: Demanded Beads to size 4 Roskilde: 288. Gift: 100.
    1180: Spain develops Chivalry and we trade them for it. Gifts: 0, 0, 75. Lux to 20.
    1200: Industrialization > Leadership. Celebration. Gifts 0.
    1220: 22 > 23. Cost for bribing Mongol engineers is prohibitive at about 650. Similar with Rome and the other midland civs are in Democracy.
    1240: 23 > 24. Gifts: 0, 0, 0.
    1260: Leadership > Corporation (650 x 2). End of food surplus and celebration for now. Gifts: 0, 0, 0. 2 civs are researching Communism which will cancel the effects of Marco's. As such, current research projects are documented as follows: Rome Fundy, Babylon Communism, Vikings Communism, Spanish Corporation, Mongols: Atomic Theory.
    1280. 3rd Wonder Caravan. Gift requests: 0, 0.
    Interim: Vikes develop Communism cancelling Marco's.
    1300: Corporation > Steel (676 x 2). Traded Vikes for Communism. Gifted Babylon towards it. Gifted Corporation to the Spanish. Updated research projects to the best of my knowledge: Rome Fundy, Babylon Communism (will continue attempting to gift it), Vikings ??? , Spanish ??? Mongols: Atomic Theory. Gifts received: 0, 0.
    1320: 2nd Transport. Updated techs in progress as far as i know: Rome Fundy, Babylon ??? , Vikings ??? , Spanish ??? Mongols: Atomic Theory. Gifts: 0, 0. Cost for a potential Roman Galleon is prohibitive @ 554.
    1340: Steel > Espionage (689 x 2). Updated all 5 maps. Since Babylon has a Midlands colony, able to reach every civ except for Spain and in order to reach them i will need to bribe a boat at some point which shouldn't be too difficult but might be expensive. Bribed a Mongol Wool Caravan for only 177, the first bargain i have encountered so far. No demand anywhere and will likely land this in Karakorum by which point it will be a freight. After completing farmland on the grass and plain squares, completed the final farmland on Fur. Now the 2 city engineers are working together on transforming the hill as the other 2 engineers continue to work in Midlands laying roads and rail to help trades to land as quickly as possible. No gifts received.
    1360: 3rd Transport.
    1380: Power Rating shifts from Moderate to inadequate and i fall about 50 beakers short of completing Espionage. Perhaps i need to cushion this better : ). Gifts 25, 0, 75, 50. While seeking a gift from the Mongols, they traded Atomic Theory to me. Updated techs in progress as far as i know: Rome Fundy, Babylon ??? , Vikings ??? , Spanish ??? Mongols: ??? .
    1400: Espionage > Refining (743 x 2). 2 dips > Spies. Established Embassies with Babylonians, Vikings and Mongols. Gifts: 0, 0, 50.
    1420: Embassy with Russia, only missing embassy is with Northland Spain now. Gifts 0, 0, 25.
    1440: Refining > Combustion. 5th Transport. Bribed Spanish Transport (6th) for 335 which will open the door for the final embassy to be established and for Trades to reach the Northlands. Set sail towards Spain with Spy and Wool Freight. Gift 25.
    1460: Gifts received: 100, 0, 100, 75.
    1480: Combustion > Automobile. Factory. Gifts: 50, 0, 100, 75. 3 wonder caravans and 1000 gold fill 400 shields.
    1500: Darwin's. Automobile > Tactics > Electronics (792/1652). Gifts: 50, 100, 0.

    1500 AD Summary: Colossus, Marco's, Lighthouse, Shakespeare's, Copernicus, Sir Isaac's, Leo's, Magellan's, Darwin's. Democracy, Size 25. 6 Trades. 60 Techs and 61st is anticipated next turn. Buildings: Temple, Aqueduct, Colosseum, Marketplace, Library, Bank, Sewer, Harbor, University, Stock Exchange, Supermarket, Factory. Units: 1 trade Freight, 0 Wonder Freights, 4 Engineers, 6 Transports, 2 Spies.

    1510: Superhighways. Electronics > Machine Tools (1680). Hill > Plain. Gifts: 50, 0, 0. 7th Trade, 1st to Northia: Demanded Wool to size 1 Bilbao: 1120. L 10 + 3 elvis.
    1520: Machine Tools > Mass Production (854 x 2). Celebration.
    1530: 25 > 26. 1st wonder caravan. Gifts: 0, 50, 0, 0. Irrigation of the plain establishing 0 food deficit.
    1540: Mass Production > Miniaturization. Holding @ 26 for one turn. Completion of Farmland. Gifts 0.
    Interim: Russians develop Fundy which is traded for in the upcoming turn.
    1550: 26 > 27. 4th Spy. Gifts: 0, 0. Disbanded an Engineer.
    1560: Miniaturization > Flight (864 x 2). Computers not offered and this was the only tech that was not off path from Fusion Power. 4th spy. No gifts.
    1570: Gifts: 0, 0.
    1580: Offshore Platform. Shift in power rating delays completion of tech. Gifts: 0, 0, 50.
    1590: Flight > Computers. L 20. Gifts 25, 50.
    1600: Power Plant. Celebration. Gifts: 0, 25, 100, 50.
    1610: 27 > 28. Gifts: 0, 100, 75.
    Interim: Spanish develop Mobile Warfare.
    1620: Computers > Mobile Warfare for which i traded Spain. Mass Transit. 28 > 29. Gifts: 0, 100.
    1630: > Radio (928/1742). Research Lab. Gifts: 0. Disbanded Engineer.
    1640: Radio > Advanced Flight. 29 > 30. 2nd Wonder Caravan. End of Celebration and i will likely retain the one remaining engineer for the remainder of the game. Have 33 net shield production and planning to build a spy per turn as future disbanding units towards space parts. Gifts: 25, 0, 0.
    1650: Gifts: 25, 0, 75,100.
    1660: Advanced Flight > Rocketry. Gifts: 25, 0, 75, 200.
    1670: Gifts: 0, 0, -50 (i gifted the Mongol's here).
    1680: Rocketry > Robotics (most useful among other off-path options). Gifts: 0, 0, 150, 0.
    1700: Robotics > Space Flight. Gifts: 0, 25, 150, 0.
    1710: Gifts 0, 0. With only 7 trades available to build to this point and treasury only at 1783, there is not enough treasury and shields to rush Apollo, nor Space parts, especially not one per turn, so i am holding back for now on completing Space Flight planning to build up more treasury and hoping as well to collect more gold gifts for a few additional turns. Also need Manufacturing Plant as well to make space parts more economical.

    If i had an abundance of gold (like maybe 7000+), the projection would have been as follows: Space Flight in 1720, Apollo in 1730. 24th part and launch 1794. Landing in 1809.
    Instead with a tight budget the actual results will be considerably slower as documented to follow:

    Interim: Vikes develop Guerilla Warfare (and i traded them for it in 1720 and gifted it to 2 others).
    1720: Gifts: 0.
    1730: Manufacturing Plant (Net shields increase from 36 > 47 with 40+ as the key number). Gifts: 0, 0, 0.
    1740: Gifts 0, 0, 75. Apollo production rushed to 300 and one transport is disbanded to allow it to be completed in 6 turns (1760) instead of 7.
    1750: Gifts 0, 25, 0, 75. Treasury: 1603.
    1752: Gifts 0, 25, 0, 75.
    1754: Gifts 50, 0, 75.
    1756: Gifts 0, 100, 25, 75.
    1758: Wonder production is @ 559 / 600. Gifts: 0. 3 of 4 alliances dissolved since i would not give them Space Flight. Babylon completes Theology which becomes a buffer tech when forced off path. Treasury: 3124.
    1760: Apollo.

    1762: Plastics > Nuclear Fission. 1st Structural of 15. Spanish develop Combined Arms which becomes another backup tech if forced off path.
    1764: 2nd Structural.
    1766: Nuclear Fission > Nuclear Power (1016 x 2). 3rd Structural.
    1768: 4th Structural.
    1770: 5th Structural. Power rating shifts from Moderate to Strong and Beaker cost shifts from 2025 to 3900. There is no light blue key civ to gift, so i have gifted techs to the Mongols and have reduced science production to a single scientist, hoping for a shift to either Supreme or Moderate which will allow the tech to complete while pulling in 355 gross gold income per turn in the meantime.
    1772 > 1780: 6th > 10th Structurals.
    1782: Power rating shifts to Moderate and Nuclear Power completes. > Laser (1976). Sci to 992 x 2. 11th Structural. Spanish develop Labor Union as another buffer tech if forced off path and the Mongols develop it next turn. Babylon and the Mongol peoples are researching Space Flight.
    1784: 12th Structural.
    1786: Laser > Labor Union. Traded the Babylonians for this, Plastics instead of Space Flight. 13th.
    1788: > Superconductor (1064 x 2). 14th Structural. Final unit within city disbanded. Keeping 2 spies in the hopes of helping to prevent tech from being stolen.
    1790: Shift from Moderate > Inadequate causing Superconductor to be delayed and 3 scientists will complete it. 15th Structural of 15. 0 shields > Barracks > SS Component total cost of 720. 0 shields > Barracks > SS Component total cost of 720.
    1792: Superconductor > Fusion Power (2370). Wanting to complete this tech before cost has a chance to increase to 4000 or so. 1st Component.
    1794 > 1796 2nd and 3rd Components.
    1798: Fusion Power > Combined Arms. Sci to Zero. 4th Component. Treasury: 380.
    1800: 5th Component. Insufficent Funds to rush the 6th which will complete on its own in 3 turns.
    1802: With limited food stores delaying this action to this point, railed grassland is mined to forest and net shields increase from 51 > 59 (with 54 being key since it provides 160 in 3 turns).
    1804: Spanish develop Space Flight.
    1806: 6th Component of 6. Spain completes 2 structurals. With limited funds, 0 > Component > Module in 3 turns.
    1808: Spain 3rd and 4th Structurals and they acquire Plastics. Mongols acquire Space Flight.
    1812: 1st Module. 0 > Disbanded Spy > Module. Sold Research Lab (should have thought of this earlier). Ending Treasury: 491.
    1814: 2nd Module. Sold University. 0 > Disbanded final Spy > Component (160) > Module (not completed). Treasury: 341.
    1816: Rushed 219 > 320 to save one turn. Forest > Plain.
    1818: 3rd and final Module. Launch. Ship scheduled to arrive in 1833.
    1819: 1st Mech Infantry.
    1820: Barracks.
    1821: Vet Mech.
    1822: Engineer to eventually disband and reduce food deficit in a city with very little remaining food storage. 30 > 29. Plain receives irrigation.
    1823: 3rd Engineer. 29 > 28. Disbanded engineer towards Fighter. Plain receives farmland. Food deficit eliminated.
    1824: Fighter.
    1825: Gold Freight.
    1827: Aegis.
    1829: Battleship.
    1830: Spy.
    1831: Spy.
    1832: Spy.
    1833: Spy. Landing.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2020
  2. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Hurrah to WildPony for finishing so quickly. Thanks for the log.

    Why not join the settler to the city instead of disbanding it?

    You should have sold your temple and Colosseum the moment you built Shakespeare.

    Leo in an OCC game? How could you justify 400 shields for this? Even if you could benefit from the upgrade of your few units, it would have been far more cost effective to upgrade manually as needed.

    Another unnecessary wonder in an OCC game. At any given time you likely have maximum one boat. How could adding 2 units to its movement justify 400 shields?

    Engineers are pretty expensive at this point of the game (city size maxed out). Were the roads really worth them? Did you do any measurements of the value of the trade route before and after the roads?


    A better choice would have been producing a van every other turn:
    2 spies disbanded give you 30 shields whereas one van gives you 50. Spies provide better defense than vans and also give you more flexibility in making the right amount of shields so 1-3 would have been OK but not more.

    At this point you should have had some food vans saved for this purpose
  3. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Like WildPony, I went for size 1 settler. Thought about producing two of them in a row but decided against that as it would have delayed the founding of the second city for too long.

    Date Notes

    -4000 Move to forest
    -3950 London founded on forest.
    -3900 -> Ceremonial Burial
    -3450 Ceremonial Burial -> Code of Laws. Size 1 settler built. Phalanx started.
    -3300 York founded at 39,85. Settler production started.
    -3200 Phalanx produced. Settler started.
    -3050 Code of Laws -> Mapmaking

    Status at -3000
    Population: 0.02M; Cities: 2; Techs: 4; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 17; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 1 Phalanx;
    Goals: Mapmaking, Monarchy, local expansion
    Russian: no contact
    Babylonian: no contact
    Viking: no contact
    Spanish: no contact
    American: no contact
    Mongol: no contact

    -2750 London builds settler which starts turning forest into plains.
    -2650 York builds settler which will create a road between the two cities.
    -2550 London is now on plains.
    -2500 Mapmaking -> Monarchy.
    -2200 First trireme produced.
    -2100 Nottingham founded on the tip of the eastern arm. T6L0S4

    Status at -2000
    Population: 0.03M; Cities: 3; Techs: 5; Government: Despotism
    Gold: 11; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Units: 1 settlers, 1 Phalanx, 1 Trireme;
    Goals: Monarchy in -1850, Trade, local expansion
    Russian: no contact
    Babylonian: no contact
    Viking: no contact
    Spanish: no contact
    American: no contact
    Mongol: no contact

    -1900 Hastings founded in the middle of the eastern arm.
    -1850 Monarchy -> Writing. Monarchy established. T3L0S7
    -1700 Canterbury founded on the tip of the western arm.
    -1600 Writing -> Currency
    -1350 Currency -> Trade
    -1250 Coventry founded in the middle of the western arm
    -1100 Trade -> Literacy. T7L0S3
    -1000 Americans start Pyramids

    Status at -1000
    Population: 0.12M; Cities: 6; Techs: 9; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 11; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: 41/200
    Units: 3 settlers, 1 Phalanx, 1 Trireme, 1 diplomat;
    Goals: One more city in homeland (next turn), Marco, Lighthouse
    Russian: no contact
    Babylonian: no contact
    Viking: no contact
    Spanish: no contact
    American: no contact
    Mongol: no contact

    -0975 Warwick founded on hilltop being mined at 24,86 as the last city on homeland.
    -0800 Literacy -> Pottery.
    -0725 Spanish start Colossus.
    -0700 Lighthouse and Marco built. T3L0S7
    Not surprisingly the 3 aggressive civs are all in war with one another and the 3 rational ones are at peace with one another. Spanish, Americans, and Mongols are remarkably large (6, 5, and 8 cities) and advanced (12,14, and 11 techs compared to my 10). My power is moderate.
    Literacy -> Babylonian (2) -> Masonry. Turned receptive from neutral, but cut me off
    Literacy, Trade -> Viking (1) -> Mysticism, Construction, peace, maps
    Mapmaking, Construction -> Russian (0) -> Iron Working, peace, maps
    Construction, Monarchy, Literacy -> Mongol (6) -> Astronomy, Math, peace, maps
    Literacy, Trade, Mysticism -> American (4) -> Pottery, Seafaring, maps
    Ignoring Icy Spanish. They have Wheel which I do not need soon.

    I am lucky that Russians who are on the southern coast of the middle land strip are weak and only have 2 cities (their third is in Viking hands). Gives me a chance to expand there next.

    -0675 -> Philosophy. Power is now Mighty.
    -0625 Turned down 100g offer of Vikings for alliance against Mongols. London builds Hanging Gardens and celebrates.
    -0600 Construction -> Babylonian -> peace, maps. Somehow my power is back to moderate. T7L0S3
    -0550 Shush founded as the first city on the middle continent.
    -0500 Americans build Pyramids and start Colossus. Shushtar founded. Seafaring -> Viking (1) -> horseback riding. Seafaring, Literacy, Pottery -> Spanish (5) -> peace, Wheel, maps. T3L0S7

    Status at -500
    Population: 0.33M; Cities: 9; Techs: 20; Government: Monarchy
    Gold: 3; Cost: 0; Trade routes: 0D0F;
    Wonders: Lighthouse, Hanging Gardens, Marco
    Units: 2 settlers, 2 warriors, 1 Phalanx, 2 Triremes, 2 diplomat, 3 caravans
    Goals: Colossus, Copernicus, conquest of Russians. Long term goal is conquest of middle continent.
    Footprint: 7 cities in homeland, 2 on the southern border of the middle continent
    Russian: 2 cities, 7 techs; war with Vikings and Mongols
    Babylonian: 2 cities, 15 techs;
    Viking: 4 cities, 13 techs; war with Russians and Mongols
    Spanish: 7 cities, 19 techs;
    American: 6 cities, 20 techs; war with Vikings and Mongols; Pyramids
    Mongol: 8 cities, 15 techs; war with Vikings and Russians
  4. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Decided to play another One City game just for fun and as a comparison to the first. Played this to 1000 ad before seeing Ali's response to my first game to which i am looking forward to replying.

    Primary difference @ start was to pursue Map Making and Trade before government (Republic) and to Build Marco's as my first wonder.

    4000: Step to 4 special forest.
    3950: Built Capitol. > Size One Settler.
    3900: > Code of Laws.
    3450: Size One Settler > 2nd Size One Settler. Code of Laws > Map Making. Settler begins to de-forest city square.
    3350: 8 > 10.
    3250: Deforestation complete. 18 > 20.
    3100: Completion of road on Grass/shield.
    2950: Completion of road on Wheat.
    2900: Completion of 2nd Size One Settler > place holder for Trireme and the 2 settlers work together towards irrigating the Wheat.
    2800: Map Making > Currency. 5 > 10. 17 food in box. Completion of irrigation on Wheat and square is chosen creating a food surplus of 1.
    2700: Road on plain and 2nd settler with 1 turn of stored work succeeds in reaching fur with a 2 of 3 chance.
    2650: Road on Fur. 20 food in the box.
    2600: 1 > 2 via food growth and one of the settlers joins city further increasing size from 2 > 3. L 40 for the moment. Trireme rushed 17 > 20.
    2450: Completion of Irrigation on Grass/shield. Lux to zero in anticipation of Trireme.
    2400: Trireme > Warrior. Trireme explores one step to open up the Whale and the remaining ocean squares within the city perimeter and then returns to the city providing martial law for the moment.
    2350: L 50 to initiate a celebration.
    2300: 1st Warrior > Place holder towards Wonder Caravans.
    2250: Currency > Trade (40). S 60 / L 40, Whale/Whale/Fur, 7 beakers per turn.
    2000: Beaker cost shifts from 40 > 48 prompting a necessary adjustment.

    2000 BC Summary: Despotism, size 3. No Wonders or wonders in production. 5 techs with Trade anticipated next turn as the 6th. No Buildings. Units: 1 Settler, 1 Trireme, 1 Warrior. Treasury: 8.

    1950: Whale > Ocean to avoid completing Settler while still completing Trade. Completion of irrigation on Fur.
    1900: Trade > Writing (55). Settler @ 39 > 40 > 1st Wonder Caravan. T > 60, L 40.
    1800: 1st Wonder Caravan > 2nd.
    1500: 3 > 4 via food growth.

    1500 bc Summary: Despotism, size 4. No Wonders or wonders in production. 6 techs. No Buildings. Units: 1 Wonder Caravan and a 2nd next turn, 1 Settler, 1 Trireme, 1 Warrior. Treasury: 19.

    1450: 2nd Wonder Caravan > 3rd.
    1400: Completion of mine on hill.
    1200: Road on hill.
    1100: 3rd Wonder Caravan > 4th.
    1050: Road on grassland.

    1000 bc Summary: Despotism, size 4. No Wonders or wonders in production. 6 techs. No Buildings. Units: 3 Wonder Caravan s and a 4th in 2 turns, 1 Settler, 1 Trireme, 1 Warrior. Treasury: 3.

    950: 4th Wonder Caravan > Marco's. 4 Caras fill 200 shields. Completion of final city road.
    925: :wavey: Marco's :wavey:.

    Pre-diplomacy Summary @ Weak: Several good techs available. America already has Republic and Babylon already has Seafaring. Nobody has Construction. 4 civs are researching Mysticism which the Vikes have and which i will trade for and then gift to the 4. Have to choose between the seemingly Supreme Mongols vs. the Vikes and Russians since the Mongols are at war with both and the Mongols are the clear choice. As well have to choose between the Americans and the Babylonians and the Babylonians seem to be slightly stronger primarily due to having 4 cities vs. 3 so i will go with them.

    Summary of Actions:

    : Traded for Myst, Mason and Math. Intentionally avoided peace and alliance at this time.
    Russians: Traded for Ceremonial, Warrior Code and their map. Again avoided peace and/or alliance since they are at war with the seemingly Supreme Mongols.
    Icy Spanish (while gold was still below 50): Traded for Horseback and The Wheel. Peace, Alliance, received 50 Gold.
    Mongols: Traded for Iron Working, Pressured to declare war on both the Vikings and the Russians without any damage to my reputation, peace, Alliance, received 250 Gold.
    Americans: Traded for Republic (Oedo 825), Writing, Literacy and Monarchy, also their map. Intentionally avoided peace and /or alliance.
    Babylonians: Traded for Seafaring and Pottery. Pressured into War with the Americans with no damage to reputation. Peace, Alliance, received 100 Gold.

    Overall Post-Diplomacy Summary: Picked up 14 techs (6 > 20), Forged Alliances with seemingly the 3 strongest civs (and the other 3 civs are at war with one of my allies), received 400 gold in gifts, Gained 2 maps of 6 thus far. Will seek new alliances with the other 3 civs only once my current allies cease hostilities with their enemies : ).

    Current techs in progress (to be gifted where possible): Iron, Myst, None, None, None, None.

    900: > Philosophy (14 / 399). L > 0 in part to keep food from topping off so i will have more food storage upon celebrating in Republic. T 60 / S 40.


    Gifted Russia Iron Working and remained at war by choice.
    Gifted Babylon Writing towards their current project of Mysticism.
    Vikes are all set with Construction as their new project.
    Spain is all set now researching Astronomy. Traded Maps.
    Americans are all set now researching Banking.
    Mongols are all set now researching Polytheism. Traded Maps and now have 4 of 6, still needing Babylon's and Vike's.

    875: Diplomacy:
    Gifted Russia The Wheel towards their tech in progress of Horseback. Remained at War.
    Gifted Babylon their tech in progress of Mysticism.
    No other Actions.

    850: 1st current Wonder Caravan > Temple. Revolution.
    Gifted Russia Republic towards their tech in progress of Horseback.
    Gifted Babylon Monarchy towards their tech in progress of Currency.

    825: :wavey: Republic :wavey:. L > 40. Temple 2 > 40. Diplomacy: Gifted Babylon their in progress tech of Currency. Did not approach Russia in Republic for now since senate could force peace.
    800: Temple > 2nd Wonder Caravan. Celebration. Babylonians are all set researching Banking now so i was able to trade maps with them, leaving only the Viking map as the missing link.
    775: 4 > 5. Diplomacy: Updated maps with my 3 allies.
    750: 5 > 6. 2nd Wonder Caravan > 3rd.
    725: 6 > 7. End of Cel for now. Gifts received @ inadequate (8 turns after initial alliance): Babylon 25, Spain 0, Mongol 75.
    700: 3rd Wonder Caravan > 4th. Gifts received @ inadequate: Spain 0 (and the other 2 not attempted this turn).
    Interim: Mongols develop Poly, Americans develop Banking.
    675: Gifts @ Moderate: Spain 0. Traded Mongols for Polytheism and updated maps. Traded Americans for Banking, forced into cease fire by Senate and updated maps. Gifted Russia Horseback, forced into peace by Senate and updated maps. Gifted Babylon Banking and updated maps.
    650: 4th Wonder caravan > Lighthouse. 4 Caras fill 200 shields. Gifts @ Moderate: Babylon 25, Spain 0, Mongol 50. Gifted tech to: Russia, America, Mongol.
    625: :wavey: Lighthouse :wavey:. > 1st Trade Caravan. Gifts @ Inadequate: Spain 0, Mongol 25. Gifted tech to: Russia.
    600: Gifts @ Inadequate: Babylon 25, Spain 0, Mongol 25. All 6 foreign civs are now researching something that nobody has. Updated misc maps.
    575: 1st Trade Caravan > 2nd (One turn rush). Gifts: Spain 0. 2 updated maps.
    550: 2nd Trade Caravan and Trireme sets sail. Final city irrigation is completed and settler will soon go to Midlands to build trade roads. Just remembered that mining the Wheat to Silk should have been done long ago and this project is begun. 4 civs are researching Astronomy. Only America has a wonder in progress which is Great Library. Gifts: Babylon 25, Spain 0.
    525: Gifts @ Weak: Spain 50! (finally), Mongols 50.
    500: Gifts @ Weak: Spain 50. Misc maps.

    500 BC Summary: Marco's, Lighthouse. Republic, Size 7. 22 Techs. 3 allies. Buildings: Temple. Units: 2 Trade Caravans and a 3rd next turn. 0 Wonder Caravans. 1 Settler, 1 Trireme. Treasury: 262 Gold.

    475: Gifts: Babylon 50, Spain 50. Misc maps.
    Interim: Russians develop Astronomy (and i trade them for it).
    450: Gifting Astronomy to the three civs researching it has its pros and cons, the primary con being that i would likely be forced to build Copernicus (the most powerful of all One City wonders) earlier than i would prefer. Another factor here is that i still don't have Colossus and competition could also heat up for this key wonder by it being switched to after the completion of Copernicus. Decided to gift it to all three since all of them are likely very close to completing it themselves anyway. Updated Misc maps. No gifts requested since all 3 allies are below 50 gold.
    425: 1st (current) wonder caravan. Gifts requested: Mongol 100. Gifted tech: Russia (2 towards tech in progress).
    400: Gifts requested: None (all 3 allies have less than 50 gold). Gifted tech: Russia (2 towards tech in progress). Updated Maps: Mongol. 1st trade of game: Demanded Beads to size 3 Minsk: 352 / 528 which is the max possible. Treasury: 670.
    375: 2nd wonder caravan. 2 caras and 400 gold fill 200 shields. Gifts requested: None (all 3 allies have less than 50 gold). Gifted tech: Russia (2 including finally their tech in progress of Code of Laws as the last possibility). Updated Maps: Babylon, Mongol.
    350: :wavey: Colossus :wavey:. 7 > 8 via food growth. 2nd trade of game: Undemanded Cloth to size 5 Moscow: 192. Fills beakers for Philosophy which hopefully i will complete before the Americans and Spaniards. Lux able to be reduced from 30 > 20. S 10 for one turn. Gifts requested: Mongol 50. Gifted tech: 2 to America and 2 to Spain to minimize their chances of completing Philosophy before me.
    325: Philosophy > Construction > Medicine (624). Gifted techs: Philosophy to Spain and America. Construction to the Vikes (with about 7 techs preceding this) and finally traded for their map. No gold gifts requested since all 2 allies had less than 50 gold.
    300: 1st (current) wonder caravan. 5 of 6 are researching something nobody has and the Vikes are researching None. No Diplomacy.
    275: Gift: Mongol 50. Vikes continue researching none.
    Interim: Mongols and Vikes made peace which allowed me to form a 4th alliance with this most likely pathetic civ (by power rating) accompanied by 0 gift.
    250: 2nd Wonder Caravan. No gifts requested from any other allies.
    225: Gift: Mongol 50.
    200: 3rd Wonder Caravan. Wheat > Silk providing for the key number of 10 Net shields. Fairly significant mistake that i didn't provide for this 10th shield by 750 bc upon reaching size 6 which was 22 turns ago. Gifts: Babylon 50 of 51, Spain 50 of 54.
    175: 4th Wonder Caravan. Trireme returns home and sets sail to Midlands with the settler who will build trade roads. Gift received: Mongol 50 of 66.
    150: 5th Wonder Caravan > Library. No gifts and a couple of updated maps. S > 80 to complete 1/3 of Medicine.
    125: 3rd trade of game, Demanded Salt to Karakorum: 384 / 576. Triggers availability to build an Oil. Gift request: Mongol 0.
    100: Library > Oil Caravan (one turn rush). Mongols develop Feudalism and undertake Sun's. I will hold back on Feudal for now to maintain the 0 > 10 rush, especially since no other civ is researching it. Gift request: Mongol 0.
    75: Oil > Aquaduct (One turn rush). No diplomacy.
    50: Medicine > Bridge Building (among other off path choices). Aquaduct. 5 caravans and 200 gold fill 300 shields. Gift: Babylon 50. USA builds Great Library.
    25: :wavey: Shakespeare's :wavey:. > Marketplace. Celebration. No diplomacy.
    1 ad: 8 > 9. Gifts: Mongols 0.

    1 AD Summary: Marco's, Lighthouse, Colossus, Shakespeare's. Republic, Size 9 (and size 12 in 3 turns). 26 Techs. 3 Trades landed. 4 allies. Buildings: Temple, Library, Aquaduct, (Marketplace next turn). Units: 1 Trade Caravan, 0 Wonder Caravans. 1 Settler, 1 Trireme. Treasury: 224 Gold.

    as compared to the first game:

    interim: Babylon develops Navigation and i will trade for it soon.
    20: Marketplace > Harbor. 9 > 10. Gifts: Mongols 0. Babylonians complete Navigation and i will trade for it soon.
    40: 10 > 11. Gifts: Mongol 75.
    60: Harbor. 11 > 12. End of celebration for now. T 80 / S 20. 4th Trade: Undemanded Oil to size 7 Moscow: 264. Triggers availability to build a Bead. After landing this Oil caravan, traded Babylon for Navigation so that i could gift it to Russia and Spain before they had a chance complete it. Gifts received @ Weak: Babylon 50, Spain 50, Mongol 50. Mongols who have Astronomy are building Sun Tzu's and no other civ is building a wonder. This absence of competition for Copernicus is allowing me to hold off on building it for a bit longer. Settler was trapped by Russian units and boarded trireme which heads directly home to pick up the next trade. Settler will forest and deforest 2 grass/no shield squares to allow for 2 additional boats to be built while protecting net 10 shields.
    80: Bead > Bank (one turn rush as will be true with many projects to follow). Gift received: Mongol 50.
    100: Bank > 1st Wonder Caravan. Russia Undertakes Copernicus just as it has become my focus this very turn. Gift: Mongol 25.
    120: 1st Wonder Caravan > 2nd. America Undertakes Copernicus. No gifts requested.
    140: 2nd Wonder Cara > 3rd. Gift: Mongol 50.
    160: 3rd > 4th. No diplomacy.
    180: 4th > 5th. Gifts received: Babylon 50, Mongols 50. Grass/no shield > Forest.
    200: 5th Wonder Caravan > Copernicus. 5 Caras and 200 gold fill 300 shields. S > 80. Mongols Abandon Sun Tzu's but i prefer to continue avoiding Feudalism for the time being (likely until forced off path). Note that next turn the Mongols started building Sun's again so tiny window of opportunity to trade for Feudalism was lost, but even still it is probably for the best : ). Spain and America establish a peace accord opening the door to a long awaited Alliance with America and a received gift of 100 gold. This 5th alliance came at the cost of breaking a peace treaty with Russia to declare war against them which dinged my reputation from Spotless > Excellent. No other diplomacy this turn.
    220: :wavey: Copernicus :wavey:. > 1st Wonder Caravan. Bridge Building > University (702). Gifts received: Spain 50, Mongol 150. With my demanded Bead sandwiched between a Russian Catapult and a Russian Elephant, paid a 150 tribute for cease fire. Still icy, gifted them a tech to reach neutral. No peace unless i made war with an ally, thus no peace. Treasury: 571.
    240: 1st Wonder Caravan > 2nd. Gift received: Babylon 50. Gifted the Mongols a first tech, then their tech in progress of Bridge Building. T > 80 for the moment to build up additional Gold for rushed wonder caravans before completing University and soon Isaac's at which point i want to take full advantage of the Super Science.
    260: 2nd Wonder Cara > 3rd. 5th Trade: Demanded Bead to size 4 Aarhas: 348. Does not trigger availability. Gift: Mongol 50 and no other diplomacy. T remains @ 80 to gain 3 additional turns of gold cushion before completing University and then switching back to 80% Science. Techs in progress by color (none of which i have): Physics, Monotheism, None, Physics, Monotheism, Chivalry.
    280: 3rd Wonder Cara > 4th. After about 20 turns @ None, Vikings finally choose a tech to research - University and i am near certain that i will complete it before them. Gift received: Mongol 50 / 53. Treasury: 941.
    300: 4th Wonder Cara > 5th. S > 30 to complete tech.
    320: University > Theory of Gravity (728). 5th Wonder Cara > University. S > 80. Forest > Plain.
    340: University (building) > 6th Wonder Cara. Vikes and Americans Acquire Feudalism. Russia completes Physics and refuses to trade for it. Gifted them their tech in progress of Construction. Gifted the Vikes their tech in progress of University. Gifts received: Babylon 50, Mongols 100. Treasury: 709.
    360: 6th Wonder Cara > 7th. No diplomacy.
    380: Theory of Gravity > Engineering. 7th Wonder Caravan > Sir Isaac's. 7 caras and 200 gold fill 400 shields. First caravan towards Wonder triggered a Bead, but i decided to build the wonder first : ). As anticipated, Russians remain unwilling to trade Physics. Gifts received: Babylon, America and Mongol 50 each. Techs in progress by color: Magnetism, Monotheism, Engineering, Physics, Monotheism, Chivalry. Techs ai has: Russia Physics, 3 civs Feudalism. Treasury: 570.
    400: :wavey: Sir Isaac's :wavey:. > Bead. Max science is 412 now which is enough to complete a tech in 2 turns. Mongols make peace with Russia and Mongols acquire Physics as do the Americans thru Great Library and i was able to trade for it and gift it to the Spaniards who were researching it. Gifts Received: Spain 50, Mongols 50 (out of 51).
    420: Engineering > Sanitation (adjusted to 806) Bead > 1st Wonder Caravan. Gifted Engineering to GL, to the Vikes who were researching it and to key civ Babylon. No gifts. The 806 Beaker cost is 2 beakers higher than i am currently able to produce in 2 turns, but gifting Babylon another tech next turn might solve that little problem.
    440: 1st Wonder Caravan > 2nd. Next gifted tech to Babylon leaves Beaker cost unchanged @ 806. Gifts received: Vikes 0 (as anticipated), Mongols 50. Treasury: 359.
    460: 2nd Wonder Caravan > 3rd. Gift received: Mongol 50. Lux > 20. Treasury: 304.
    480: 3rd Wonder Caravan > Sewer. Celebration. Gifts: America 50, Mongol 50.
    500: Sewer > 4th Wonder Cara. 12 > 13. Gifts received: Baby 100, Amer 50. Misc tech gifts and updated maps along the way.

    500 AD Summary: Marco's, Lighthouse, Colossus, Shakespeare's, Copernicus, Isaac's. Republic, Size 13 (and size 22 in 9 turns) . 33 Techs (plus Feudalism when i want it). 5 Trades landed. 5 allies. Buildings: Temple, Library, Aquaduct, Marketplace, Harbor, Bank, University, Sewer. Units: 1 Trade Caravan, 3 Wonder Caravans. 1 Settler, 1 Trireme. Treasury: 229 Gold.

    520: 4th Wonder Caravan > 5th. 13 > 14. Gifts received: Spain 50, Amer 100, Mongol 50. Treasury: 290.
    540: Economics > Invention. 14 > 15. 5th Wonder Caravan > Stock Exchange. America completes Monotheism. Traded them for it and gifted it to one and towards it to another. Gift received @ weak: Mongol 50. Treasury: 96. T > 80 for one turn.
    560: Stock Exchange > 6th Wonder Caravan. 15 > 16. Mongols develop Chivalry. Since nobody else is researching it, I will hold back on trading for this and will choose it when forced off path. No gifts received, no techs gifted, updated 2 maps. Treasury: 278. S 80.
    580: 6th Wonder Caravan > 7th. 16 > 17. Gifts received: Babylon 50, America 50, Mongols Sympathy. Treasury: 110.
    600: Invention > Democracy (Oedo 620). 17 > 18. 7th Wonder Caravan > Magellan's. 6th Trade: Demanded Beads to Kaupang: 496. 1st wonder caravan towards Magellan's triggered the availability to build a Gem and a Gold and i decided to switch. Tech gifted: Invention to America (GL), then to Babylon who was researching it. Sought gift: Mongol 0. At this moment leaning against building Leo's this game but it's possible for this to change.
    620: :wavey: Democracy :wavey: > Gunpowder. Gem > Gold. 18 > 19. Gifts sought: Mongols 0.
    640: Gold > Magellan's. This time caravans towards the wonder did not trigger new commodities. 6 Food Caras and 400 gold fill 400 shields. 19 > 20. Trireme sets sail with 2 trades. Gift request: Mongol 0.
    660: :wavey: Magellan's :wavey:. 20 > 21. Gunpowder > Feudalism (Chemistry was not offered). Traded Gunpowder to America (GL) for Feudalism. Gifted Gunpowder to Babylon. Gifts received: Spain 50, America 100, Mongols 0. Saving Chivalry for the next time i am forced off path.
    680: > Chemistry. 21 > 22. End of food surplus and celebration for the moment. Gifted Democracy to America and Babylon. Gifts received: America 50, Mongols 0.
    700: Chemistry > Explosives. 1st Wonder Caravan > 1st Dip. Disbanded Settler. L 20. Gifts received: Baby 100, Mong 0.
    720: Dip. Babylonians develop Metallurgy, America Acquires it and i trade for it. Gifts: Babylon 100, Span 0, Amer 0, Mong 75.
    740: Explosives > Magnetism. 22 > 23, end of food surplus and celebration for now. Gifts: 50, 0, 75.
    760: 1st Engineer > 2nd. 23 > 22. Gifts: 50, 0, 0, 50.
    780: Magnetism > Electricity. Gifted Magnetism liberally, no gold received. 7th Trade: Demanded Gold to Bokhara: 784.
    800: Electricity > Chivalry. Forced off path from Refrig. Traded Mongols for Chivalry. 2nd Engineer, 22 > 21. Gifts: 0, 75.
    820: > Refrigeration. Gifts: 50, 0, 75. Treasury: 1883.
    840: Refrigeration > Conscription (Forced off path). 3rd Engineer > Supermarket. 21 > 20. Gifts: 0, 0, 75.
    860: Gifts: 50, 75.
    880: Conscription > Steam Engine. Gifted Conscrip to USA. Gifts: 50, 0, 75. 8th Trade: Demanded Gem to Trondheim: 797.
    900: Steam Engine > Railroad. Celebration. Gifted Steam and others. Gifts received: Mongols 0.
    920: 20 > 21. 2nd Dip. Gifts: Mongols 0.
    940: 21 > 22. Gifts: 0, 0, 0. Treasury: 2751.
    960: Railroad > Industrialization. 22 > 23. End of food surplus and celebration for now. Gifted Railroad liberally. Rail on Silk restores 10th net shield. No gifts.
    980: Gifts: 150, 0.
    1000: Industrialization > Atomic Theory. Forced off path and this was the backup tech. Traded for it from the Russians. Gifts received: 0, 0. Disbanded Trireme towards a Transport.

    1000 AD Summary: Marco's, Lighthouse, Colossus, Shakespeare's, Copernicus, Isaac's, Magellan's. Democracy, Size 23. 51 Techs. 8 Trades landed. 5 allies. Buildings: Temple, Library, Aqueduct, Marketplace, Harbor, Bank, University, Sewer, Stock Exchange, Supermarket. Units: 0 Trade Caravans, 3 Wonder Caravans. 3 Engineers, 2 dips, (1st transport next turn). Treasury: 3033 Gold.

    Significant improvement from 1st game including 8 extra techs at this stage, 4 extra trades, and 2900 extra gold in treasury:

    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  5. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Thank you kindly and thank you for your detailed response : ).

    At that stage i was thinking i was very close to Marco's, i wanted to have a lower city size when meeting all of the foreign civs so my power rating would possibly be lesser increasing the likelihood for establishing the highest possible number of alliances and the highest possible amount of gold gifts. As well since i was already in Republic, i was thinking it would be easy to celebrate the city to a larger size very soon. Finally that disbanding the settler while funds were tight would help rush one of the wonder caravans and in turn Marco's.

    I think you're right and i didn't play it as sharply as possible : ).

    In this particular map you are probably right. In my 2nd One City game posted above, i made the decision to not build it. In other one city games i have found Leo's quite useful given my style of play which includes landing as many trade caravans as quickly as possible, hoping to trigger new commodities available to build.

    Again you you are probably right, especially since in this game my city only allowed me to build 7 trades all game. As well with so little water, it would have worked fine to have an excellent longer chain of slower boats to allow for one turn land mass to land mass deliveries of the trades that did arise. But i did carry a chain of boats in the hopes of hastening trades and triggering as many new trades as possible... trade triggerings which in this game unfortunately never did materialize.

    The trade roads and later railroads were built to reach key cities including Karakorum and Trondheim as fast as possible, not to increase the trade bonuses in the foreign cities. The intention was to reach trade destinations as fast as possible - ideally city to city in one turn with ship chain and rail - in the hope of triggering new trade commodities as quickly as possible.

    Many thanks : ).

    I think you are saying that the van or freight towards a space part gets full value rather than half value? I actually experimented with this and in my experience a caravan did not contribute 50 shields to space part. I tried both "joining" which didn't do anything and disbanding which provided only 25. Is there a special technique that i am missing? My intention for the spies was simply to get the part started from zero with one spy disbanding into 15 shields, so i was not paying the 160 gold to rush a temple to get things started. If there is a better way i would be very interested to learn it.

    I have played several One city Games where by this point i had no problem rushing Apollo in one turn and rushing 24 space parts in one turn each. Somehow in this game gold was very tight and it worked out differently. The 2nd game i am playing is actually coming along quite a bit better. Thank you again for all of your feedback and i enjoyed the interaction : ).
  6. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    There is a better way. There is no penalty in switching between space ship parts and a wonder. At any point in the production switch to a wonder, contribute the van to get 50 shields, then switch back to the space ship part.
  7. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Thank you Ali, that's the missing information i needed!
  8. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    2nd One city game: 1020 AD > 1773 Landing.

    1020: > Corporation. 1st Transport. Mongols develop Leadership. Traded them for it and gifted it to the Vikes who were researching it. Gifts: Babylon 150, Spain 0, USA 0, Mongol 0. Feeling i should build Darwin's very soon to be sure to beat the wealthy Russians to it. One caravan towards the wonder once again triggered a Gem and a Gold, but since i have nearly completed Corporation, i will not build the trades just yet (and will build Darwin's first which will have to wait a turn before rushing it).
    1040: Corporation > Refining. 60 shields plus 1360 gold fills 400 shields. Gifts: 0, 0.
    1060: :wavey: Darwin's :wavey:. Refining > Steel > Combustion (774 / 1458). Hill > Plain. Techs in progress: Russia Communism, Babylon None, Vike's Tactics, Spaniards Fundy, American's Theology, Mongol's Communism. No gifts requested.
    1080: Gem Freight > Gold Freight. Transport sets sail. Shifted from Moderate > Inadequate and fell 54 beakers short of completing Combustion. Gifts: Babylon 100.
    1100: Combustion > Automobile. Gold Freight > Building place holder. Gifts: Babylon 50, 50, 0, 75.
    1120: Gifts: 50, 0, 100.
    1140: Automobile > Tactics (1456). Celebration. Gifts: 50, 0, 50.
    1160: Superhighways. 23 > 24. Traded maps with America, spotted a light blue Galleon and bribed it for 126 which will allow my 2 current trades which are only demanded in Northia to reach there... as well as a future spy to establish embassies. Gifts received: 0, 75. City square is transformed to grass and 2 of 3 engineers head north to build trade roads and rail.
    1180: Tactics > Machine Tools (1482). Gifts: 50, 75.
    1200: Factory > 2nd Transport. Gifts 0.
    1220: Machine Tools > Electronics. 9th trade undemanded Gold to Northian New York: 795.
    1240: Electronics > Mass Production. 2nd Transport. 10th Trade: Undemanded Gem to Northian Boston: 807. No trades triggered. Utilized the start a wonder with the first caravan technique and Gold and Gem once again became available to build. Switched from Wonder @ 50 to Gem @ 25. Gifts: 50, 0.
    1260: Mass Production > Miniaturization. Gem. Gifts: 0, 0.
    1280: Gold > Mass Transit. 2 Freights set sail, transfer into a 2nd Transport and land upon Midlands towards Northia. Bribed None Engineer from the Vike's for the bargain price of 200. Gifts 0.
    Interim: Babylonians develop Communism.
    1300: Miniaturization > Communism. Traded the Babylonians for it and gifted it to those researching it. Gifted techs.
    1320: > Espionage. Mass Transit > Power Plant. Gifted techs.
    1340: Espionage > Computers (1638). 11th Trade: Undemanded Gold to size 8 Boston: 807. Treasury: 3862.
    1360: Computers > Flight. 1st Spy > Research Lab. Spy establishes embassy with Russia. 12th Trade: Undemanded Gem to size 8 Boston: 807. Gift: 50. Treasury: 4366.
    1380: Flight > Radio (1690). Research Lab. Somehow on their own, Hides and Gold became available to build. Will Rush a Hide per turn for as long as i can until shifting towards building a Space Ship. Spy establishes 2nd and 3rd embassies with the Mongols and the Vikes and next turn will board a Galleon towards Northia to establish all of the others. Meanwhile 2 engineers are laying rail in Midlands and another is building roads and rail in Northia. No gifts received. Treasury: 4247.
    1400: Hide > Hide. Mostly gifted additional techs, gifts received: 0.
    1420: Radio > Advanced Flight. Russians developed Nuclear Fission and i traded them for it. Gifted addtnl techs, Gift: 75.
    1440: Misc techs gifted. Gift received: 50.
    1460: Advanced Flight > Rocketry. 13th Trade: Undemanded Hide to size 8 Boston: 456. Not enough to facilitate a one turn tech, so 14th Trade is landed also. Undemanded Hide to size 8 Boston: 456. Grass/No Shield > Forest (towards plain). 4th Embassy of 6: America who have Theology which can be chosen if or when forced off path. All 4 civs with embassy are researching Mobile Warfare. Gifts: 50, 75.
    1480: Rocketry > Space Flight (897 x 2). Offshore Platform > Power Plant. (5th Embassy: Babylon which is also researching Mobile Warfare. Gifts: 50, 0, 75.
    1500: Power Plant > Final Hide. 51 Net shields at this moment, but in the process of deforesting one square to a future farmland plain to conserve food storage. 6th and final embassy. Gifts: 50, 0, 0, 75.

    1500 AD Summary: Marco's, Lighthouse, Colossus, Shakespeare's, Copernicus, Isaac's, Magellan's, Darwin's (and will have Apollo in 2 turns). Democracy, Size 24. 70 Techs (plus Space Flight next turn). 14 Trades landed. 5 allies. Buildings: Temple (sold), Library, Aqueduct, Marketplace, Harbor, Bank, University, Sewer, Stock Exchange, Supermarket, Mass Transit, Factory, Offshore Platform, Power Plant. Units: 2 Trade Freights, 1 Wonder Caravan. 4 Engineers (one is none), 2 Transports, 1 Galleon (none), 1 Spy, 2 dips. Treasury: 4362 Gold.

    Game is proceeding much more smoothly than Game 1 and is far ahead at this point (in 1500 AD) including 10 extra techs, 8 extra trades landed, 2 extra buildings and and unknown amount of extra gold:

    1510: Space Flight > Nuclear Power. Final Hide > Apollo. One Food caravan and 2200 gold fill 600 shields. Forest > Plain. First cancelled alliance. Gift: 0, 0, 150. Treasury: 2314.
    1520: :wavey: Apollo :wavey:. > 1st Structural of 15. 15th Trade: Undemanded Hide to Boston: 452. 2 additional alliances cancelled. Gifts rcd: 0.
    1530: Nuclear Power > Plastics. 1st Structural. 4th alliance dissolved over my refusal to gift Space Flight.
    1540: 2nd Structural.
    1550: Plastics > Laser. 3rd Structural.
    1560: 4th Structural.
    1570: 5th Structural.
    1580: Laser > Theology. Superconductor not offered and traded for Theology. 6th Structural. 16th Trade: Undemanded Hide to size 12 Babylon: 544. 17th Trade: Undemanded Hide to size 12 Babylon: 544. Final trade while Spaceship is being built. Treasury: 2447.
    1590: > Superconductor. 7th Structural.
    1600: Superconductor > Fusion Power. 8th Structural.
    1610: 9th Structural. Treasury: 2035.
    1620: 10th Structural. Treasury: 1837.
    1630: 11th Structural. Fusion Power > Robotics. T > 100%. Mongols sneak attack me sinking a Galleon, None Engineer and Spy.
    1640: 12th Structural. Treasury: 1671.
    1650: 13th Structural. Fur > Oil (through Spaceship and then to Wheat). Net shields 47 > 61.
    1660: 14th Structural. Treasury: 1907.
    1670: 15th Structural. 0 > Temple > Structural > disband Transport > Component. Treasury: 1786.
    1680: 1st Component. 0 > Temple > Structural > disband Transport > Component. Treasury: 1665.
    1690: 2nd Component. Sold Research lab and will be selling 4 additional growth and science buildings over the next few turns. At this point if i had about 1000 additional gold in addition to various buildings i will be disbanding, i would have been able to launch a 20 part ship in 1720 and land in 1756. But since gold is deficient, i will instead need to build a 24 part ship and launch in about 1760 for an aprox 1775 landing. With 61 net shield production, will start by building the much more economical and cost effective 4 additional Components. 0 >Temple > SDI (200/2) > Component. Treasury: 1464.
    1700: 3rd Component.
    1710: 4th Component.
    1720: 5th Component. Treasury: 1163.
    1730: 6th Component. 0 > Temple > Oracle > Module. Treasury: 183.
    1740: 1st Module. 0 > Temple > Structural > Module (to self complete in 4 turns which will allow just enough gold to accumulate to rush the final module in 1 turn). Treasury: 148.
    1756: 2nd Module. 0 > Temple > Oracle > Module. Oil > Wheat (with 4 food storage to spare). Net shields 61 > 50. Treasury: 96.
    1758: 3rd Module. Launch. 15 year journey.

    1759: Barracks.
    1760: Vet Armor.
    1761: Vet Armor.
    1762: Spy. Traded for Amphibious Warfare.
    1763: Port.
    1764: Vet AEGIS.
    1765: Vet Battleship.
    1766: Airport.
    1767: Vet Fighter.
    1768: Vet Transport.
    1769: 2nd Spy. Babylonians develop Space Flight but a bit too late.
    1770: 2nd Vet AEGIS.
    1771: 2nd Vet Battleship.
    1772: 2nd Vet Fighter.

    1773: :wavey: Landing :wavey:. 60 year improvement from game 1.
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
  9. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    GOTM203. Aaaaand we're back!

    1 settler game. Tech plan is CB-CoL-MM-Monarchy, no way to deviate. Move 1 square W and SW to found 1st city, to take advantage of the silk and the international date line.Size 1 settler, obviously. It`s better to take the time to work the silk instead of building immediately, due to the extra science progress. (Size 1 settler is only delayed by 1 turn if you RB 1 shield) Will also get an extra 11 gold. This most likely means 1 oedo cycle earlier. Kinda reminds me of frame-rules for Super Mario speedruns... raise your hand if you've heard the SummoningSalt`s narrator voice in your head.

    The other big question is if I build my 2nd city on the hill or not. If i build on the hill, I lose 1 trade per turn (1 beaker earlygame) which is kind of big. However, it also allows me to build a 3rd city east with minimum overlapping squares, taking advantage of the DateLine glitch.I guess it`ll depend on how quickly I can get to Monarchy... no food difference, since I would build on plains otherwise. (Mine on city trick is unadvisable.)

    Emperor difficulty. This allows for a very early start on LH. We'll see for next moves once we get to the mainland.

    4000 BC: Move settler W, then SW.
    3900 BC: London built. Work silk for size 1.
    3750 BC: RB 1 shield in London. Settler 10 turns.
    3650 BC: Code of Laws -> Burial. Techrate 11 turns.
    3550 BC: Change worker from Silk to Whale. Will build a size 1 with 19 food in box.
    3250 BC: London size 1 settler.
    3200 BC: Decision time... I decide that building on the hill is the wiser decision. I value the eastern city's access to the forests at (3, 83) more highly, for settler and trireme production. At least the hill city would still have access to silk, (post-decision edit: which means more science when size 2) so they wouldn't need to use that forest square themselves like they would have if I had built on the plain. The eastern city would otherwise not produce more than 3 shields per turn, which isn't great. (It has 5 now, which is a key number for rushing caravans.)
    3150 BC: London size 2, settler 6 turns after IPRB. York built: no mine on city trick since science progress is more important. York won't be hurting for shields, and London is supposed to be the LH city anyways by virtue of being first.
    3100 BC: Burial -> Map Making.
    2900 BC: London settler, starts Colossus. Will be LH.
    2850 BC: Settler will be heading to the prairie square on the eastern part of the island.
    2700 BC: nottingham built.
    2650 BC: Map Making -> Monarchy. Techrate 12 turns.
    2600 BC: could have delayed LH for an earlier trireme for the 4th and 5th cities, but I think the other decision is wiser. .
    2450 BC: Trireme built in York. rush shields in Nottingham.
    2250 BC: Power level/key civ change screwed me out of a 0-turn revolution. Sucks.
    2200 BC: Monarchy > Currency.
    2100 BC; REVOLUTION. Sadly the Anarchy is screwing me out of 1 shield in York, so settler boat will be delayed by 1 turn. Spend 11 gold to counteract that.
    2050 BC: MONARCHY. Nottingham, York settlers. They embark on boat, will head towards both ends of the V-shaped horseshoe. T3L0S7. Techrate 8 turns.
    2000 BC: Disembark 1 settler on (10, 80) will build next turn.

    STATUS AT 2000 BC: (Beginning of 41st turn)
    Population: 50.000 Cities: 3 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 6 (researching Currency)
    Gold: 29 T3L0S7 3 income, 0 Cost, 8 Beakers/turn. Production: 10MT Citizens: 4
    Units: 2 Settlers (2 prod), 1 Warrior, 1 Trireme.
    Wonders: None built. LH being built.
    Foreign relations: None.
    Goals: Build LH. Expand on the horseshoe.

    1950 BC: I might have accidentally taken the long way around to the 2nd city site instead of doubling back. Oh well, guess we're commited. This way uncovers more, but is 1 turn longer. Hastings built, east of starting island.
    1800 BC: Currency > Writing (Trade not available)
    1600 BC: Canterbury built at other end of the horseshoe, west of starting island. Swapped from Colossus to LH, scarily late.
    1550 BC: York settlers. 15 turns LH.
    1500 BC: Writing > Trade.
    1350 BC: Babs start Pyramids. Preparing a caravan in York.
    1250 BC: MOngols start Colossus. That's one of the nearer civs... interesting. Trade > Literacy. Van rushed in York, Lighthouse in 2 turns. It's all falling in place. hastings also built a settler a while back, will irrigate forest square for a 2nd city.
    1200 BC: Van in London, LH next turn.
    1150 BC: LONDRES LIGHTHOUSE. LH turn 58. Boat heads north with 2 settlers on board. Will send one more shipment of settlers from main isiand before focusing on WoWs.
    1050 BC: Canterbury settlers. London 2ne warrior, starts MPE. No clue which wonder it will be (Pyramids, or another one? Babs do have Pyramids so snagging them could be useful. I don't want to risk them switching to Colossus though, for obvious reasons...) DIsembark on mainland and meet Viking city of KIEV (size 3) not far from my own capital. Trade for Masonry and Construction, peace, maps. Moscow is not far, but I should prioritize building first.

    STATUS AT 975 BC: (Beginning of 62nd turn)
    Population: 140.000 Cities: 5 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 9 (researching Literacy)
    Gold: 57 T3L0S7 6 income, 0 Cost, 16 Beakers/turn. Production: ??MT Citizens: 9
    Units: 4 Settlers (4 prod), 2 Warriors, 1 Trireme.
    Wonders: LH. 2nd wonder being built.
    Foreign relations: Peace with Vikings. Russians spotted.
    Goals: Snag foothold on middle continent. Locate Mongols, decide if trade is worth it for me. Also need to decide whether I want to risk losing Pyramids or Mongol!Colossus.
  10. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    You didn't try to place your cities to abuse the DateLine glitch? I find that weird. Especially since you pointed it out in the pregame.

    Did you start building a WoW in London by then? At 2000 and 1000 BC you have more cities than I have, despite only having 2 cities in your starting island. I`m not sure how that happened.

    That's a rather late LH (15 turns later than mine) but a much earlier 2nd wonder and a 3rd before I even got a 2nd. (Mine was HG, I skipped Marco) Were you building the 2 wonders at the same time? Mind sharing why? I was sure LH would be higher priority here.

    Heh, exact same thing happened to me too! Sadly I wasn`t able to do a very good job of placing my cities with the DAteLine in mind, and got crappy RNG when it came to early fights. Really hurt my midgame.
  11. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    I did. The two cities on the main island are on the opposite sides of the date line: 3,83 and 39,85. There are 6 tiles (2 of them specials) that would have been shared between them had they not been on opposite sides of the date line.
    No, London built a settler which immediately moved and founded York. Then a Phalanx for protection in case Russians sailed south which they never did. Could have built a warrior but needed to give London time to grow. After the Phalanx a settler was produced in London followed by a boat.
    You gave priority to reaching the southern continent. I did not. My goal was cities in homeland first, then wonders, and finally expansion to that continent. My reasoning was that the rivals there are aggressive and are likely to attack me so I have to spend resources on protecting those cities. I wanted to go there when I am close to ready to attack and conquer.
    Wonder production started in -1550. By -1000 I only had one city producing a wonder. In -975 Warwick was founded on hilltop being mined and it started the second wonder. Because of its high production it soon caught up with the other city building a wonder. Again, wonders were a higher priority for me than expanding out of the homeland.
  12. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    May 29, 2002
    Michigan, USA
    Interesting choice. You built your first city a turn later and produced your size 1 settler 4 turns later than my attempt. But you had a clear advantage in science.
    Was a third city on that island worth 4 overlapping squares, building on a hill-not-being-mined, and losing the opportunity to use a whale tile (4,80) for the rest of the game? Particularly since there were other city sites within a trireme's reach?
    Why did you stop building cities? Because remaining homeland sites would have been on forest?
  13. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    I would dare say so, yes. The 3rd city proved to be very useful for earlygame shield production, and synchronizing settler production with certain milestone achievements whilst keeping good pace overall: which I would not have been able to achieve. I was essentially trying to speedrun the earlygame (Lighthouse%), and I think the 3rd city helped me a bunch on doing just that. (Being able to double up on both silk and whale also helped.)

    I had to irrigate city sites first. Warwick was built in 925 BC, Oxford in 800 BC and Liverpool in 625 BC.

    975 BC: Coventry built as 1st city on middle mainland... a full 17 turns earlier. Wonder how that's gonna turn out.
  14. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Great dialogue between Jokemaster and Ali in comparing ideas : ). Since i already played a One City Game, I decided for fun and for comparison to also play an unofficial multi-city game and to play with the goal of basic civ building and expansion, combined with possible partial conquest. Will likely play it until about 1ad or possibly 500 ad or beyond.

    Studying the starting land, i first wanted to decide between building 3 cities on the starting patch or 4, taking the date line into account. If i was to choose 4, then the extra city would be build directly on the Fur. But if i build 3, then 2 cities would be able to work the Fur simultaneously and a 3rd city alternatingly. There are pros and cons to each, but i lean towards keeping the Fur available to multiple cities. 39/85 grass/whale/silk/fur is an obvious choice as one of the city sites and this will be the Capitol. The 2nd choice to make is between forest 3/83 and hill 1/83. The forest is the only way to access the 4/80 Whale and if the Fur is not built upon, this forest location is a 4 special site. But if the city is instead built upon the Hill, the 38/84 Silk would be able to be worked by 2 cities simultaneously and as well there would be less overlap with the eastern city. Since mining the hill internally would be a large and in my opinion cost prohibitive investment in the early game and since the hill provides no trade and the city would provide only 1 beaker, building on a deforested plain is preferential to me. Also the later mined hill would then be able to be simultaneously utilized by 2 cities as well. Thus all in all i consider the forest/plain to be the stronger choice.

    Grassland 5/85 is another potential city site which would be able to partially share the Fur and partially share the Wheat, but if i was going to build a 4th city directly on the Fur, then instead of 5/85, the east city would be build directly on the Wheat instead to reach further east into the ocean. A 4th city on the Fur would likely yield a more effective start including a faster government, perhaps by 4 turns, a quicker race to Trade, to the 1st wonder and the wonders to follow. On the other hand, once i have a trireme, the same settler would be able to reach excellent land to the West or East. As another factor, building a 4th city on the starting island would hinder the largest possible sizes each city would be able to reach upon Sanitation. With all of this in mind i will proceed with the game and decide as i go, but will most likely abstain from building a city on the Fur.

    Also since this game is Emperor level and not Deity, i plan to pursue Monarchy over Republic as the first government since there will not be a high demand for martial law. If it had been Deity, i would have chosen the path to Republic.

    4000 bc > 400 bc:

    3900: Built Cap on Grassland 39/85 with Whale, Silk and Fur. T60 / S40 to start, planning for a 12 turn Size 1 Settler. Will work the Whale for the first 8 turns then switch to the Silk for the final 4.
    3850: > Code of Laws.
    3750: 9 > 10.
    3650: 16 > 20, depleting treasury from 8 > 0. Beakers are @ 5 of 10, so i will keep S @ 40 for one additional turn.
    3600. S > 60 and tech will complete in 2 turns.
    3500: Code of Laws > Ceremonial Burial (22). With 29 shields and 16 food in the box, Whale > Silk to complete the Settler @ 20 food.
    3300: Size 1 Settler > Settler. 20 food in the box.
    3250: 1 > 2. Settler production rushed > 10.
    3200: Settler steps to Forest planning to invest 5 turns in deforestation and to take advantage of the date line Whale, instead of first moving to the low-shield Grassland 5/85 site.
    3100: Ceremonial Burial > Map Making (33). Monarchy not offered.

    3000 bc Summary: Despotism with 1 city and 1 settler. Deforestation is @ 4/5 and next settler is @ 35/40. 4 techs and 6/30 towards Map Making. No roads or irrigation. Treasury: 14.

    2950: Settler emerges and Forest city site becomes a Plain.
    2900: Built 02 @ 3/83 deforested 4 special site including the 2 dateline specials which are Whale and Fur.
    2800: 02 settler production rushed from 6 > 10. Will no longer log similar tinkerings which will proceed all throughout the game.
    2750: Built 03, Grassland @ 5/85 with shared Fur and Wheat. Choosing to work Fur for now to provide 2 Beakers.
    2650: Map Making > Monarchy (4/48). Unless beaker cost increases (which seems unlikely), able to reach Oedo 2250.
    2300: Beaker cost shifts downward and :wavey: Monarchy :wavey: completes one turn early which is fine. > Currency. Revolution. Completion of Trireme in 02 which frees its 2nd whale from darkness and then heads West towards the Settler which will complete in the capitol next turn.
    2250: Completion of Settler in Cap which boards trireme heading West.
    2150: Built w04, Grass, 3-whale @ 33/79. Trireme uncovers the 3rd whale before heading back to pick up next settler that will soon emerge.
    2000: Completion of Settler in 03 which boards Trireme heading East. Continuing for now with T 70 / S 30 focusing upon initial expansion before shifting to the prioritization of Wonders.

    2000 bc Summary: Monarchy with 4 cities. No wonders, nor any in progress, no buildings. Units: 1 Settler, 1 Trireme. Production: 4 settlers @ 30, 15, 9 and 0. 6 techs and 23/55 towards Currency. No roads and no irrigation except for the 1 deforested city square. Treasury: 56.

    1900: Completion of Settler in 02 which stores a turn of work. Built e05 Grassland @ 11/79 with 2 Whales and trireme heads back to starting island.
    1800: Completion of Settler in 03 which stores a turn of work and is picked up inside city by trireme which sails to 02 where the other settler stores its 3rd turn of work.
    1750: 2 settlers heading West stop over in Capitol and store 4th and 2nd turns of work respectively.
    1700: Currency > Masonry. Trade was not offered and i would prefer to have Pyramids as my first Wonder since between Pyr / HG and Lighthouse, it provides the most significant immediate benefit. With a sufficient jump start to initial city building, S > 70 to complete Masonry and Trade as soon as possible hoping for Pyramids, HG, Lighthouse and Marco's, likely in this order, or possibly some other variation to be decided upon as i go. With plan towards Civ-wide Super Trade, i am not interested in Colossus. Cap completes Settler which lends a turn of stored work to the 03 settler. 2 settlers - each with 4 turns of stored work - sail to far western edge of starting land.
    1600: Completion of Settler in West 04.
    1550: Completion of 2nd city site deforestation project and 1st road.
    1500: Masonry > Trade (0 / 84). Completion of Settler in 02, 3rd deforestation and 2nd road. Built w06 @ 29/81, deforested plain with access to 2 shared Whales.

    1500 bc Summary: Monarchy with 6 cities (and 7th next turn). No wonders nor any in progress. No buildings. Units: 4 Settlers, 1 Trireme. Production: 6 settlers @ 26, 26, 12, 6, 0, 0. 8 techs and 0/84 towards Trade which will be completed in 5 turns or maybe 4. 3 deforested plains and no other irrigation, 2 roads. Treasury: 52.

    1450: Built w07, deforested plain @ 25/85 with Whale, Fur and access to shared Whale. Trireme sails west through city to uncover the 2 Whales. Americans undertake Pyramids.
    1400: Completion of 4th current Settler, 3rd and 4th roads.
    1350: Completion of 5th current Settler and likely the last one for a while as we shift into a Wonder building emphasis. 5th road.
    1250: Trade > Construction. Pottery not offered. T > 70 for the moment. Babylon joins the race for Pyramids. 6th and 7th roads. Production of 7 Settlers all shifted > Caravans.
    1200: 2 settlers each with 4 turns of stored work sail East towards the next city-site deforestation projects.
    1100: 1st Wonder Caravan. 8th and 9th roads.
    1050: 2nd Wonder Caravan. Completion of 4th and 5th city site deforestation projects.
    1000: Built e08, deforested plain @ 17/83 with Silk and shared Whale. Built e09, deforested plain @ 19/85 with access to 2 shared Whales.

    1000 bc Summary: Monarchy with 9 cities. No wonders nor any in progress. No buildings. Units: 2 Wonder Caravans, 3 Settlers, 1 Trireme. In Progress: 9 Caravans @ 45, 40, 40, 30, 27, 22, 5, 0, 0. 9 techs and 57/96 towards Construction. 5 deforested plain city sites and no other irrigation, 9 roads. Treasury: 24.

    975: 3rd Wonder Caravan.
    950: 4th and 5th Wonder Caravans. 4 fill 200 shields. Deforestation of 6th city site.
    925: :wavey: Pyramids :wavey:. America switches to Hanging Gardens and Babylon to Great Wall. Built e10, deforested plain @ 15/81 with shared Silk.
    900: 2nd current Wonder Caravan. With the 10th city built, one of my cities reaches size 2 and begins to riot... my bad : ).
    875: 3rd Wonder Caravan. Deforestation of 7th city site.
    825: Pottery > Seafaring. T > 70. 4th Wonder Caravan and the 4 fill 200 shields. Built w11, deforested plain @ 27/83 with shared Whale.
    800: :wavey: Hanging Gardens :wavey:. Americans change to Great Wall keeping the heat off essential Lighthouse. 1st non-deforestation irrigation is completed upon dateline Fur which will simultaneously benefit 2 cities and which will alternatingly benefit 4 (see the 750 turn). Production: Building the final 8 initial wonder caravans - for Lighthouse and Marco's - and started 3 buildings in lower food cities to be switched to Harbors upon completion of Seafaring.
    750: 1st (current) Wonder Caravan. With the most viable local city sites gone, Built 12 with final settler in what some will consider to be a strange and surprising location. Tundra 2/88 on starting island with access to a shared irrigated Fur. In progress: 7 wonder caravans, 1 trade caravan, 4 buildings to be switched to Harbors in low food cities which would otherwise be very slow in reaching size 3. The only 2 remaining possible local city locations which may or may not eventually be built are South Pole glaciers which access a whale and which with Harbors could eventually reach a maximum of size 9 and would provide formidible trade bonuses. An even lesser consideration is Desert 33/88 which will almost certainly never be built.

    750 bc Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Monarchy with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. No buildings. Units: 1 Wonder Caravan, 0 Trade caravans, 0 Settlers, 1 Trireme. In Progress: 7 Wonder Caravans @ 47, 46, 45, 30, 30, 27, 25. 1 Trade Caravan @ 0. 4 future Harbors @ 8, 6, 4, 0. 11 techs and 52/120 towards Seafaring @ T 70 / S 30. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. Treasury: 102.

    725: Completion of 2nd, 3rd and 4th current Wonder Caravans and the 4 fill 200 shields for a surprise wonder.
    700: :wavey: Marco's :wavey:. With seemingly low competition for essential Lighthouse and with Marco's providing a more immediate benefit and LH able to wait a bit longer, chose to build Marco's first and to emerge with Lighthouse in 4 additional turns.

    Pre Diplomacy Summary: 1) No civ has Republic, Seafaring or Philosophy (and nobody is researching the first 2) and this being the case i plan to self-complete Seafaring (currently @ 83 / 120), will likely trade for Literacy and self complete Republic (or maybe Philosophy > Republic) before gaining new techs. 2) Important techs to gift right away: Currency to Russia who is researching it, Construction to Babylon who is researching it. Also America and Babylon both have Map Making, so Bronze Working to America to provide an extra layer of protection in diverting them from Lighthouse and Literacy to Babylon to accomplish the same. 3) Since i am Supreme, i don't anticipate being able to receive any gifts through alliances and since i have no military, i also don't anticipate being able to receive Tributes. 4). Will seek to minimize the number of techs Key Civ Mongol ends up with to optimize trade bonuses.

    Limited Diplomacy:

    Russia: Gifted their tech in progress of Currency and several techs preceding this before it was available, Alliance, map, no gift. Map opens up Dark blue and Purple cities.
    Spanish: Gifted them a misc tech, peace, traded for Literacy.
    Babylon: Gifted them Literacy (for Great Library) and their tech in progress of Construction. Peace. Map.
    America: Gifted Bronze Working (for Colossus) and one to precede it. Peace. Map.
    Viking and Mongol: No contact for now since they are each researching a tech that nobody has.

    S > 70 to complete Seafaring in 2 turns.

    675: Completion of 1st current wonder Caravan. Ur abandons Great Wall and city is lost to the Americans. Gifted Babylon their new tech in progress of Pottery.
    650: Seafaring > Republic (5 / 180, Oedo 525). Philosophy was not offered but it would have been a significant gamble anyway, in one respect that someone might complete it first and not chose Republic as the free tech... and secondly that if i had completed it first, Republic may not have been accessible as the free tech. Completion of 2nd, 3rd and 4th current Wonder Caravan's and each moves towards the city in the middle which happens to be w11 and in which a Harbor is rushed to 60 this turn. Production: 5 Trade Caravans, 1 Trireme and 6 Harbors. Treasury: 90.
    625: 1st Harbor. 4 wonder caravans fill 200 shields.
    600: :wavey: Lighthouse :wavey:. Will now shift into a focus upon proliferating and landing Trade Caravans (preferentially demanded) from cities which will be in Republic and initially celebrated to size 4 (if very low in food), 5, 6 or 7. Another important priority is building key Harbors in the cities that need them the most, especially those requiring a lot of help in reaching size 3.

    600 bc Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco's, Lighthouse. Monarchy with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. Buildings: 1 Harbor. Units: 0 Trade caravans, 0 Wonder Caravans, 0 Settlers, 1 Trireme. Production: 5 Trade Caravans, 1 Trireme and 6 Harbors. 13 techs and 86 /180 towards Republic @ S 60 / T 40. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. Treasury: 15.

    550: Completion of 1st and 2nd Trade Caravans and a 2nd Trireme.
    525: :wavey: Republic :wavey:. > Mysticism (initially 195 and increased to 540 then 616). L > 30 / T 70. With the completion of Republic, will engage in a lot of additional diplomacy...

    Spain: Traded for Mysticism, Writing, Horseback Riding, Warrior Code and maps.
    Vikes: Traded for Iron Working and maps.
    Russia: Gifted them Republic and updated maps. Couldn't return to gift their tech in progress the Wheel.
    Babylon: Gifted them Republic and updated maps.
    Americans: Traded for Mathematics and updated maps.
    Mongol: Traded for Wheel, gifted 2 techs to get them to Cordial and traded maps.

    Summary: Now have 21 techs, all 6 maps, and every civ has Republic.

    500: Completion of 3rd and 4th Trade Caravans and the 2 triremes are sailing towards Midlands with all 4. 8 cities enter into Celebration and Lux is increased to 40%. Gifted the one tech in progress that i had which was the wheel to the Russians.

    500 bc Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco's, Lighthouse. Republic with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. Buildings: 1 Harbor. Units: 4 Trade caravans, 0 Wonder Caravans, 0 Settlers, 2 Triremes. Production: 5 Trade Caravans, 2 Triremes and 5 Harbors. 21 techs and 0 / 540 towards next tech which is unchosen for the moment. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. Treasury: 82.

    475: Completion of 2nd Harbor. Citizen count increases by 8. Lux increased from 40 > 60. 6 celebrations continue and 2 drop off. Diplomacy: All 6 civs are now researching something that nobody has.
    450: Completion of 3rd and 4th Harbors and no additional units. Citizen count increases by 6. America completes Philosophy & University and both were received in trade which increases the tech count to 23. Gifted Philosophy to Spain who was researching it. 1st Trade of game: Demanded Copper from size 5 city 02 > size 3 Moscow: 208. Reinvested Gold liberally which will yield another 2 trireme and 4 trade caravan pairing within 3 turns. 4 celebrations continue.
    425: Completion of 3rd Trireme. Citizen count increases by 4. 2 current celebrations and Lux is able to be reduced to 50. Foreign civs (by color) are researching: Bridge, Poly, Poly, Bridge, Bridge, Engineering. Treasury: 2.
    400: Completion of 4th & 5th current Trade Caravans, 4th Trireme and 5th & 6th Harbors. 2nd Trade of Game: Demanded Beads from size 5 e05 to size 3 Minsk: 160.

    400 bc Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco's, Lighthouse. Republic with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. Buildings: 6 Harbors. Units: 4 Trade caravans, 0 Wonder Caravans, 0 Settlers, 3 Triremes. Production: 9 Trade Caravans, 2 Triremes and 1 Harbor. 23 techs and 0 / 540 towards next tech which is unchosen for the moment. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. Treasury: 124.
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  15. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    975 BC: Coventry built as 1st city on middle mainland. (Post-game edit: I had a pretty awful performance when it came to exploiting the DateLine glitch in the middle continent.)

    925 BC: Settler is accosted by Mongol horseman. Get peace, maps after giving a few techs. Looks like the continent is already quite busy. Literacy - Mathematics. York settler will head to a darkened spot on the map in hopes of getting a better foothold there. Phalanx was rushed in Coventry.

    900 BC: Warwick built on western horseshoe.

    850 BC: Viking Archer in Kiev kills Mongol Catapult. was only unit remaining, Catapult killed one. Newcastle built on continent, near pheasant. I will likely have to look at the conquest of Russian and VIkings, and possibly Samarkand. Power is only Strong...

    800 BC: Oxford built on eastern horseshoe. Mongols just attacked Vikings with a horse. Trade to Mongols for HBR. They also have Mathematics
    775 BC: Trade with Vikings for Warrior Code, then trade WC to Mongols for Mathematics. Mongol catapult near Newcastle, I move my Phalanx on a river square in front so at least I have some heads-up if they sneak attack.
    Interturn: Mongols warn us to leave Tabriz: fortunately, their Catapult also leaves. They are almost done with Colossus. Pyramids seem quite worthless in this scenario, honestly...

    750 BC: Start researching POlytheism.
    Interturn: Karakorum builds Colossus. This is quite excellent.

    700 BC: Babs almost done with Pyramids. Polytheism -> Pottery. HG is what i would prefer so southern cities can build with no interruption. Power is now Mighty.
    Interturn: Babylone builds GL. Americans and Vikings swap to GL.

    625 BC: Liverpool built as last horseshoe city. Dover buillt on mainland.
    Interturn: Mongols attack Uppsala and empty it of defenders.

    575 BC: Brighton built on mainland. Uppsala was conquered by Mongols. They are the dominant power on this continent. A limited war would be dicey.
    Interturn: Russians hail, and ask to trade for IW. I refuse, as IW is not needed right now. Trade for maps, and Smolensk is revealed. St pete seems to have been razed to the ground.

    525 BC: Trade Polytheism to Mongols for Mysticism. This is somewhat risky, but I'll take it. Norwich built on mainland. Another batch of Settlers on route from horseshoe cities, and first Elephant flotilla is dispatched. The obvious first target is Russians, whilst I wait for my city front against Mongols to be better organized.

    500 BC: Oxford settlers. Leeds built.

    475 BC: Hut: Legion. T7L0S3. (Only hut in the entire game, BTW.)

    STATUS AT 475 BC: (Beginning of 82nd turn)
    Population: 370.000 Cities: 14 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 17 (researching Pottery)
    Gold: 25 T3L0S7 14 income, 0 Cost, 35 Beakers/turn. Production: 50MT Citizens: 24
    Units: 3 Settlers (4 prod), 7 Warriors (2 prod), 2 Triremes, 3 Phalanxes (2 prod) 1 Legion, 2 Elephants (3 prod) 0 Caravans (2 prod)
    Wonders: LH. 2nd wonder being built.
    Foreign relations: Peace with all middle continent civs. Mongols Colossus, Babs Pyramids.

    Goals: Secure conquest of Russians and Vikings. Take a few Mongol cities as needed. Get Philo -> MOno. Snag HG
  16. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    Turns 76 to 100: in which my submission gets completely destroyed by bad RNG. Compared to what should have been, at least.

    Interturn: Mongols first to Philosophy. Whaattt??
    450 BC: Pottery -> Philosophy. London disorder. Trade Pottery to Mongols for Philosophy.

    425 BC: Start researching Monotheism.

    400 BC: Van in London for HG. HG in 2 turns. I will attack Moscow next turn, regardless of the reputation hit.
    Interturn: Mongols attack Smolensk, killing a unit. Mongols attack Trondheim, but fail. They are getting way too powerful to my liking.

    375 bc: Sneak attack Moscow: Lose 2 Elephants to a single Archer (???) before defeating the defender. Moscow size 1, will gamble on it growing back to size 2 and no defender. Losing two ellies is a huge setback. Curse RNG.

    350 BC: No defender in Moscow, but no size 2 either. Moscow sacked for 20g+IW.

    325 BC: Kill Russian phalanx south of Smolensk.

    300 BC: Legion killed by Russian something in Smolensk.

    275 BC: Blunder into random Russian cavalier fortitied deep in Mongol territory... another ellie lost. This is not going well at all.
    Interturn: Russian cavalier kills my ellie, then kills Mongol catapult that was also wrong place wrong time.

    250 BC: Mongols appear to have switched to Republic!

    225 BC: Lose 2 more ellies killing Russian legion in Smolensk, city undefended. What the f**k is wrong with my RNG today??? This should not happen! Van in Londres.

    200 BC: Sack city of Smolensk for 29g. RUSSIAN CIV DESTROYED BY ENGLISH. No city was actually gained...

    125 BC: Mongols start Sun Tzu. I wonder if my 70% taxes strat is going... I maybe should have sent more resources in earlier trade vans. I have 2 headed to Karakorum in approximately 6 turns, but that will most likely be not as early as it should have been.

    100 BC: Vikings: no war. Sneak attack Kiev: once again lose an ellie, but take Kiev for 2c+30g. I cannot believe all of the defenders were veterans... RULES file is accurate too. These losses are forcing me to build a lot more ellies than I should... it's hurting me quite a lot.
    Interturn: Many WoWs are built. Notably, Trondheim builds GL. Need to hurry before walls come up.

    75 BC: What the hell is going on? Barely kill VIking archer with ellie, 4atk vs 2 def on flat terrain. This is unbelievably crippling. T5L0S5.
    Interturn: Babylon finishes MPE. I will get Mikes instead.

    25 BC: Lose an ellie near Kaupang on enemy turn, enemy archer is now unfortified. Kill 2 defenders at the cost of another ellie. Monotheism - >The Wheel.

    1 AD: Kill another defender of Kaupang, city seized for 1c+Barracks+7g. Barracks... are every single one of those cities going to have them? Another vet, at least. Embassy with Mongols. I completely forgot the DateLinewhen building cities on the mainland...

    STATUS AT 1 Ad: (End of 101st turn)
    Population: 940.000 Cities: 20 Government: Monarchy Total advances: 21 (researching The Wheel)
    Gold: 97 T5L0S5 40 income, 1 Cost, 30 Beakers/turn. Production: 82MT Citizens: 48
    Units: 3 Settlers, 11 Warriors , 3 Triremes, 6 Phalanxes , 7 Elephants 1 Crusader, 6 Caravans
    Wonders: LH, HG, Mikes being built. 2nd wonder being built.
    Foreign relations: Russians conquered, war with Vikings. Peace with Mongols Others not contacted.

    Goals: Try to shake off the bad RNG. Finish war with Vikings, try to get some straggler cities afterwards when geographically justificable. Get Mikes, switch to Republic, celebrate and trade as much as possible. Get more trade going, finish expanding.
    Need to figure out a backup plan if I cannot snag Trondheim.

    I lost 8 ellies and 1 free Legion in this turnset.
    320 shields, down the drain.
    Had this not happened... imagine what I could have done with those resources... 15 Elephants instead of 7...
    Would Mongols have had this many cities left by then?
    So many more resources in the middle continent...
  17. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Welcome back, it's good to see other people here : ). I agree that this is a nice site for the Capitol and this is where i chose to build mine as well. Afterwards i did a bit of testing and found an even greater solution in this situation. In short the results were that the Forest works out best as the Capitol, but only if 2 size 1 settlers are built there. Building the cap at the location you and i chose and building 1 size 1 settler is a fairly close 2nd best. A fairly distant third is building the cap on the Forest and building only 1 size 1 settler there instead of 2. If anybody was interested i could provide the analysis of how each of these starts plays out and how each looks after 25 turns.

    True and T 60 for the first 5 turns provides just enough gold for a 2nd rush from 16 > 20 which allows the settler to complete an additional turn faster.

    This is a very interesting comparison worthy of consideration. The Hill does make the most of the Date line providing 3 or 4 (net) extra uncontested squares including the Silk) as opposed to a city built @ the Forest location, as well allowing for an east city (either Grassland 5/85 or possibly the Wheat location) to have 2 or 3 additional uncontested ocean squares (depending upon whether or not a 4th city is built either on the Fur or on the Tundra below the Fur). A big positive with the Forest site is that it accesses the other Whale that would otherwise be lost, but in balancing this out somewhat, the Silk is lost to the 2nd city if it is built on the forest. But a Whale with Harbor provides 3 food vs. 1 for the Silk which is significant. Also the Plain city site once deforested provides trade which as one possible benefit could make the difference in reaching Oedo 4 turns earlier as well as being instrumental in helping the city to celebrate later. Also a city built @ the forest location has the chance to share the Wheat / future Silk square alternatingly including in those times when it is landing trades. The two alternatives each have their advantages. In my opinion, the forest site beats the Hill site in various important ways in the early game and most especially when chosen as the Capitol and building 2 size 1 Settlers there... and the Hill site beats the Forest site in the later game upon Sanitation when the cities will be competing for food. Since the most effective possible start is so crucial i favor the Forest, but i also see good reasons as to why someone else might favor the Hill.

    I agree with you since the 10 turn expense to provide only one extra shield in Despotism is cost prohibitive as compared to what the civ could otherwise be accomplishing with those 10 turns.

    For me Emperor instead of Deity means that i can play Monarchy first instead of Republic and not have to build a single warrior : ).

    Since 20 food is highly preferential to 19, i think maybe you meant that your city increases from 19 > 20 the turn the Settler is built and that you end up with a settler and 20 food?

    Cruel : ).

    Lighthouse is crucial in this situation, but it is almost never heavily contested and it's interesting to consider what is being sacrificed by prioritizing this so highly, including perhaps the building of additional excellent Stc's in the South without requiring LH to do it. Since the most hotly contested Wonder race is for Pyramids and the 2nd is HG, i built those 1st and 2nd respectively and when the time came to build the 3rd wonder, i was confident that i could even safely complete Marco's before completing LH since i felt (arguably) that Marco's would provide more immediate benefit in my situation.

    Very interesting contrasting strategy. In comparison I built 12 Super trade cities in the South, prioritized landing trades after Marco's and Lighthouse and waited quite a long time before building my first Midland city, likely building about 36 trade caravans first (3 each within 12 cities).

    In a multi city game with a nearly unlimited capacity to land high value, foreign, separate land trades from multiple cities, my opinion is that Pyramids and HG are each 100 times more valuable than Colossus. If you see this otherwise, can you please make your case? : ).
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  18. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    400 BC > 1 AD

    400 bc Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco's, Lighthouse. Republic with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. Buildings: 6 Harbors. Units: 4 Trade caravans, 0 Wonder Caravans, 0 Settlers, 3 Triremes. Production: 9 Trade Caravans, 2 Triremes and 1 Harbor. 2 Trades landed. 23 techs and 0 / 540 towards next tech which is unchosen for the moment. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. Treasury: 124.

    375: Completion of 5th and 6th current Trade Caravans.
    350: Mongols develop Engineering, Babylonians develop Polytheism. Traded for both. Gifted Poly and about 8 techs preceding it to the Vikings. Misc updated maps. 3rd Trade of Game: Demanded Beads from size 6 Capitol to size 3 Hladir: 336 / 672 which fills beakers. With no trades positioned to land next turn, enlisted one scientist to choose next tech but not finish it, just in case it's something i don't want to complete : ).
    325: > Monotheism (707 / 648). Definitely the tech i was hoping for. Completion of 4 trade Caravans, now have 9... and 6th Trireme. L 40 / T 60.
    300: Monotheism > Feudalism (675) . Towards Theology. Completion of 10th and 11th current Trade Caravans and 7th Trireme. Mike's is a big priority since it will help to easily celebrate everything to size 8 (and soon thereafter to 11 or 12) as a result providing for significantly heightened trade bonuses. In balancing this, i am continuing to send demanded trades to Midland whereas nearby undemanded trades will contribute to the Wonder. Plans for 8 wonder caravans is locked in and Mike's will emerge in 4 turns. 2 demanded Salts sail north. 4th Trade: Demanded Beads from Size 6 city 03 to size 2 Upsala: 328. Techs in progress: Bridge, Banking, Astron, Bridge, Bridge, Astron.

    300 bc Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco's, Lighthouse. Republic with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. Buildings: 6 Harbors. Units: 7 Trade caravans, 4 Wonder Caravans (including those recently reassigned), 0 Settlers, 7 Triremes. Production: 8 Trade Caravans, 4 Wonder Caravans. 26 techs and 331 / 675 towards Feudalism. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. Treasury: 42.

    275: Completion of 2 Trade Caravans and 1 Wonder Cara. 5th Trade: Demanded Beads from size 6 w04 to size 3 Nishapur: 272. 6th Trade: Demanded Beads from size 5 w06 to size 2 Kashgar: 200. One scientist assigned. Treasury: 59.
    250: Feudalism > Theology (702). Completion of 2 Trade Caravans and 1 Wonder Caravan.
    225: Completion of 2 Trade Caravans and 2 Wonder Caravans. 8 Wonder Caravans fill 400 shields. Treasury: 28.
    200: :wavey: Michelangelo's :wavey:.

    The general overall plan over the next few centuries is to build every available trade caravan from each of my original 12 cities as well as the remaining 6 Harbors and soon 12 Aqueducts now that i have Mike's. After this primary focus, will switch to Settlers where no further trade caravans are available to build and utilize them to both colonize Midlands and also to build trade roads there to help my trades to reach their destinations in the most time efficient manner possible. Midlands is sufficient for Super trade likely until bonuses are halved by Invention or Navigation, at which point a big shift will be made towards trading to Northia instead of Midlands. As well, at that point a shift towards conquoring Midlands will make sense, likely timing this with Sun Tzu's. Depending upon how things go, this conquest could possibly begin with Vet Crusaders, maybe Vet Dragoons or possibly even Vet Cavalry.

    6th Trade: Demanded Silk from size 6 cap to size 4 Bokhara: 468. With L @ 30, all 12 cities are set to celebrate.

    200 bc Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco's, Lighthouse, Michelangelo's. Republic with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. Buildings: 6 Harbors (+ 5 in progress). Units: 14 Trade caravans (+ 7 in progress), 0 Wonder Caravans, 0 Settlers, 7 Triremes. 27 techs and 468 / 702 towards Theology. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. Treasury: 108.

    175: Initiation of 12 Celebrations. Completion of 3 Harbors and 1 Trade Caravan. 7th Trade: Demanded Bead from size 7 city 02 to size 2 Kaupang: 336. Fills beakers for Theology.
    150: 12 new Citizens. Completion of 2 Harbors (now have 11 of 12) and 15th and 16th current Trade Caravans. Treas: 69.
    125: Theology > Medicine (756). 10 new citizens and 2 celebrating cities have reached size 8 with no aqueduct as yet. Completion of 12th and final Harbor and 1 Aqueduct. 8th Trade: Demanded Salt from size 8 city 02 to size 4 Bokhara: 504.
    100: 8 new Citizens. Completion of 2nd Aqueduct and 17th & 18th current Trade Caravans. L > 50.

    100 bc Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco's, Lighthouse, Michelangelo's. Republic with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. Buildings: 12 Harbors, 2 Aqueducts (+ 5 in progress). Units: 18 Trade caravans (+ 7 in progress), 0 Wonder Caravans, 0 Settlers, 7 Triremes. 27 techs and 468 / 702 towards Medicine. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. Treasury: 134.

    75: 7 new Citizens. Completion of 3rd & 4th Aqueducts, 19th Current Trade Caravan. 9th Trade: Demanded Silk from size 11 Cap to size 6 Karakorum: 504. Treasury: 39.
    50: Medicine > Sanitation (784). 9 new Citizens. Completion of 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Aqueducts. 10th Trade: Demanded Salt from size 10 city 03 to size 2 Aarhus: 392. L 50 > 60. 1st city reaches size 12 and all others continue to celebrate.
    25: 11 new Citizens. Completion of 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th Aqueducts. 2nd city reaches size 12. 11th Trade: Demanded Silk from size 10 w06 to size 3 Uppsala: 522. 12th Trade: Demanded Copper from size 10 e10 to size 3 Uppsala: 344. Treasury: 272.
    1 ad: Sanitation > Chemistry (930). 9 new Citizens. Completion of 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th and 20th, 21st and 22nd Trade Caravans... and 8th Trireme. Russians develop Bridge Building and Babylonians develop Banking, and both are received in trade. Gifted Bridge to the two other civs researching it. 13th Trade: Demanded Gem from size 12 city 12 to size 6 Trondheim: 620. 16th Trade: Undemanded Gold from size 10 e05 to size 6 Karakorum: 260.

    1 ad Summary: Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Marco's, Lighthouse, Michelangelo's. Republic with 12 cities. No wonders in progress. Buildings: 12 Harbors, 12 Aqueducts. Units: 20 Trade caravans (+ 6 in progress), 0 Wonder Caravans, 0 Settlers (3 in progress), 8 Triremes (+ 3 in progress). 14 Trades landed. 32 techs and Chemistry next turn. Completed projects: 7 deforested Plain city sites and 1 other irrigation, 9 roads, 0 mines. City Sizes: 4 size 12's, 3 size 11's, 5 size 10's. Population: 7,000,000. Treasury: 964.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  19. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

    Nov 15, 2010
    In this case, a single caravan and Londres` city build order from 2900 BC.

    Oh, not me, the Mongols! I wanted them to build Colossus so I could send vans there.

    I had simply forgotten how it worked. Been a while, you see.

    Also, holy moly that turnset. Had this game been counted we'd be getting smoked.
  20. WildPony

    WildPony Warlord

    Jan 12, 2004
    Southern California, USA
    Just as another perspective, my own thought is that Settlers and a good number of cities first and wonders built a bit later by caravans establishes a much more powerful foundational position much earlier : ).

    The key to this (and anybody can choose to do it) was a focus upon Settlers and 12 Southern cities first, filling up the excellent Southern land, each city of which will become a size 12 STC and then building the 4 key early wonders with 16 caravans a bit later as the next major priority : ). I also believe that in this situation LH is best built as the 4th wonder unless there there was unexpected competition for it. This is because Southern cities can accomplish much more at this stage as compared to Midland cities and as mentioned above, each southern city with a Harbor can become size 12 STCs sending high bonus trades to foreign cities on a separate continent. Also, it is sub-optimal to land trades from these Southern cities until they are celebrated. Pyramids reasonably early helps get all of our cities to size 3 as fast as possible and HG of course allows them to celebrate including 3 of the higher food starting island cities to size 7's without any buildings. As well, there is no sense in landing trades until all techs have been traded for which requires Marco's. All of this postpones the need for LH until these other priorities have first been established.

    Alternatively building LH 3rd and getting trades en route before Marco's would work too, but a delayed Marco's will cost us in other areas such as with civs completing techs that could have been gifted to them which would have allowed them to complete a tech that would benefit us instead. In any case, it is highly effective to make the most of the excellent Southern lands, building many great cities, then the 4 wonders and to exercise patience in reaching Midlands, first with Trade Caravans from celebrated cities as a much higher priority than sailing settlers there.

    Also, in the earliest part of the game, there is not a lot of value in building cities on Midlands as compared to building cities in the South and as compared to sending celebrated Southern trade caravans to separate-land Midland foreign civs since our own Midland cities will not be STC's, at least not until Northia can be reached since same-land trade cripples bonuses to the point that it's really not worth doing when there are separate land options... and even once Northia is reachable, these Midland cities will never provide the same level of bonuses as the Southern STC's due to the distance factor. The most major priority of a settler sent to Midlands at some point shortly before Invention or Navigation should be to build a North Coast city so that trades can then sail to Northia. But in the earlier part of the game before Invention and/or Navigation, my opinion is that it is better to land trades in Midlands and that the logistical sacrifice in traveling much further is not worth it at this time, especially since landing trades often triggers the ability to build new ones. Building Midland trade roads and/or bridges to allow caravans to reach their destinations much faster is also a valuable use of the Settler's energies at some point fairly early, but it's difficult to prioritize even this over sending as many trades as possible first since there is only so much passenger space in the triremes : ).

    Ahh, that explains it completely! Colossus in Karakorum would be ideal or Trondheim would have been the next best thing : ).

    Fair enough : ). Yes in building a size 1 Settler, hitting 20 food and 40 shields simultaneously is the ideal where possible... unless you are seeking to build a 2nd size 1 settler at which point 19 food in the box would be optimal for the first one and 20 if possible for the 2nd : ).

    Thanks for the dialogue.
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020

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