GOTM 27 - Game Of The Year pre-game discussion

[ainwood]

This is the pregame discussion thread for GOTM27 - The Game Of The Year, and cracker's swan-song as GOTM designer.

The starting saves will be available on Jan 1st, and with me being in a country that sees the new-year fairly early, some of you might just be able to avoid all the fun of New Years' eve parties and play this game instead!

Once you download the starting save game file and open it to begin play you may no longer participate in this discussion thread.

Please read the features announcement very carefully - there are some rules that have been adjusted slightly (including lethal bombard for your F-15 Unique unit )

In the interim, please share your thoughts on what the American Civ may offer, strategies given the starting location and thoughts on the changes to the rules.


Link to game announcement page.

Minimap:

World Location:

 

[Justus II]

Wow! Now I HAVE to get GOTM26 wrapped up before the 31st! It looks like Cracker, Ainwood, and the GOTM staff have already put a lot of thought into getting GOTM closer to C3C, to at least get a testbed of changes. Except I didn't notice in the list of changes where the Forbidden Palace was disabled just kidding.

Excellent work!! I very much appreciate the effort and hard work, and definitely look forward to the game! As the Americans, I would expect rapid expansion, and planning for a wonder-triggered GA (that aspect should be much easier on Monarch, anyway). Speaking of Monarch, this will probably be a much slower tech pace than some recent games, especially with the C3C-like changes to communications/map trading. I also for some reason expect islands or small continents, so that there will be use for naval units. (Especially since we are using the Asian flavor units, and most American interaction with Asia was early Naval expeditions). So maybe we can expect something like the Pacific. Also, many of the changed units, and our own F-15, come into their own later in the game,, so I'm sure the map will somehow discourage middle-ages conquest!

 

[gozpel]

This is interesting, communications and maps can't be traded until much later in the game. This will make the scouts invaluable and I will probably crank out 3-4 more before the first settler. The knowledge of good places to settle is a must.
The starting point doesn't look too appealing, so I move the scout S (we still have scouts to start with?) and then decide on coastal or inland capitol.
No winning condition for MP which is fine, the map and the game will decide that for me. But I'm sick of the military approach, maybe I go for histographic on this one since it is a historic game.

 

[Drazek]

Looks very interesting. I don't have C3C and I'm not planning to get it anytime soon so these additions are welcome in the way that it makes eventual migration easier. One reason I don't like getting C3C is that it seems to make the game completely different, and I haven't even mastered earlier versions as well as I would like.

According to the minimap, we are playing atleast Large map, so I'm expecting that the naval movement differences will make a big part of the game. GOTM17 was an archipelago map and it was painful to move units with the default slow movements.

Hmm, I decided before last GOTM that I'll concentrate on military victories until I'm good enough, so I'll still go for Domination/Conquest and I don't think these mods will make so much difference, since I was already planning to try to improve my research capabilities. But we'll see how the map and game turns out, that'll ultimately define my victory goal.

>Predator:
>All AI civs begin the game with at least two settlers.
This makes me think about chickening and playing Open, but perhaps that's too lame.

 

[gozpel]

Heh, I kinda knew Drazek would pop up here early, one of the faster conquestors and submitters as well. You are already good in that winning concept Drazek.

Now go for space or diplo and show us the stuff

I felt I could say this when you say : "This makes me think about chickening and playing Open, but perhaps that's too lame. "

I don't consider myself a chicken or being lame, but I stepped down from Predator to Open to leave me a few veins to pop in real life. The Pred-junk is too much for my patience

You're Predator skills are great and the early winnings on conquests/domination win are classy, but staying on top like a few players do no matter what the winning condition is, takes a very different strategy. I would like to see how you fare on those I mentioned...I'm sure you do better than you believe

And besides, the games last a bit longer.

Haakka Paalle

 

[Drazek]

>Originally posted by gozpel:
>Now go for space or diplo and show us the stuff
Naah, I don't like space. I submitted a space game in GOTM21 (1390AD). I feel that Modern Times is boring. But I might consider Cultural, I have only two C wins: 20k occ and 100k in medal play, which didn't go well.

>I felt I could say this when you say : "This makes me think about chickening and playing Open, but perhaps that's too lame."
Heh, I just hope there would be more Predator players.

>And besides, the games last a bit longer.
I always eagerly wait for new GOTM but then after playing about 15h I begin to lose interest and hope to finish it asap.

>Haakka Paalle
Almost, Hakkaa päälle! (coming from the Finnish battle cry in the 1618-1648 war.)

 

[Megalou]

The new features look very well thought out indeed! There will be a lot of new things to take into consideration.

As gozpel pointed out, this looks like one of the poorest starting locations in the GOTMs. Settler SW is a likely move for me unless the scout reveals something else. That way, the river will be retained and there might be room for more core cities. Does the starting location hint that there will be similaritites to the real Americas? Will Iroqious start with 3-4 settlers on predator? Will there be a super-site for New York? Based on earlier experience, I don't think real-world similarities are a priority with cracker, but it can start you thinking. (My brother, who has little knowledge of the game but good knowledge of history once exclaimed "What! Thermopylae is there!? I went to great lengths to convince him that many worlds are better than one.)

I will probably try to trigger Golden age by means of wonders somewhere in the late MA, after Democracy. I will probably go for Diplomatic because my games take a long time, but I may also try for domination, reading Drazeks spoilers carefully...

 

[HookEmHorns]

I'm going Predator for the first time so it will definitely be interesting, particularly with the changes to maps and contacts.

I'm thinking that there will be separation between two or three continents. My research priority will be for Map Making to build the Lighthouse. Research will be at max since tech progress will be slow due to the difficulty and the isolation and since I am concerned that barbarians will be numerous and I would prefer to keep my treasury small.

The possible settler moves are ne and e to the coast and sw and s along the river. All four of these will avoid having a city one off the coast where the coastal tiles cannot be fully developed. I would prefer to settle inland so that the second city can work on the lighthouse. The worker will move w and the scout s,s to clear the most fog for choosing between the two inland sites.

The Lighthouse will take care of the Expansionist half of the Golden Age requirement. Hoover's will be nice for the second half.

Good luck to all and remember, don't take any wooden nickels!

 

[Sir Bugsy]

It appears that the tournment and the GotM have been separated, since there isn't a target victory condition.

Or maybe that's because this is the GotY.

Edit: It helps if one reads the ENTIRE game announcement

Note: This game is NOT part of the medal play series, and therefore there is no target victory condition.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Wow, ainwood, does this mean we have TWO mods outside the US? Great to see someone close to home in charge around here

As for the start - looks awful. But the changes make playing in Play the World not so bad.

 

[Offa]

It looks like there won't be a settler factory immediately available for once, so this should feel more like a random start.

 

[Singularity]

I'm back after an 8 month absence from civ3 and GOTM. Sad to see that Cracker makes his final magic touches to this game, but I'm sure Ainwood will carry the torch on in a worthy manner.

Like Justus II said, I think it will be a pacific like map design. So an aggressive aim for map making may prove valuable. Maybe a bit of piracy with privateers? I'll get C3C tonight and run a few test games, and then I will dive into GOTY in few days.

Scouting down S towards the direction of the river may prove to be clever. The barren start location sure suggest a better area close by...

Edit: After reading some around I see that C3C is not included in GOTM27. I'm not surprised though seeing the huge step it was to include PTW into GOTM.

 

[SewerStarFish]

After my last several disappointing GOTM's I'm just glad for the lower level of difficulty. I'm going to start the settler where he stands and go exploring.

I expect this to be Cracker's Magnus Opus.

 

[Boyd]

Well as the game is on Monarch I might give it a go at "open" level but I still am only about half up (or down) in the pack, although having a warrior named "Lighthorse Harry" might be worth staying at "conquest"!

cracker loved being guided by history, whether in his maps, civ placement, rivals or in his civs' attitudes (e.g. the other "Middle Eastern" civs in the Arab gotm not being aggressive with the Arabs).

If my memory is right, the early settles in America had it pretty rough in their first site (although nothing compared to the first European settlers in what is now Canada). So, I think that cracker may be following that with the quality of our first city placement and therefore I don't expect great resources just under the fog. I think I can detect a slight bump SE, regardless though I will send my scout S, SE along the river and if naught I will comtemplate settling in place (although Megalou and in particular HookEmHorn has a good point about the wasted coastal tiles) unless I decide on Lighthorse and it finds me something to the NW.

I like the idea (Gozpel) of pumping out three more scouts as we shouldn't be troubled by barbarians for a bit and our contacts and maps will be slower.

Raging barbarians are a pain but they can be managed.

I wonder what surprises lie in store for us... or rather what surprise lies in the Christmas "cracker"? (Apologies if this pun is too North American centric!)

 

[Drazek]

I played a couple of test games using a modded PTW and giving 3 settlers to every AI. With a 5-turn settler factory I was easily on par with AI expansion wise, although I didn't manage to get the best AA wonders (focused on FB though). It would be nice to get the Great Lighthouse and Pyramids, for example, and trigger GA just when entering MA. In MA I had to slowly hand build Leonardo's, because all AI were so lagged behind already. Higher level is much nicer, when you just grab wonders build by others. Got MT in around 200AD, all AIs having only spearmen and lonely pikemen.

So this should'nt be so bad even on Predator unless we have no settler factory and all neighbours start with atleast 3 settlers.

 

[AlanH]

I've been pondering the wonder choices for triggering a Golden Age, preferably after the Ancient Age. The only relevant wonders in the Medieval and Industrial Ages are Magellan, Copernicus and Hoover, and it turns out there are very few options.

A late Industrial Golden Age could be triggered by Hoover, but the Golden Age is an opportunity to accelerate infrastructure and boost research, and late Industrial feels too late for this phase. A late Medieval Golden Age can be primed by the Great Wall, Hanging Gardens or Pyramids and triggered by Magellan or Copernicus.

As I never build walls I can't see myself building a Great one. Republic looks more attractive now with its modded unit support - I've never been a great fan before - so I may not even want Monarchy for the Hanging Gardens. I guess that narrows down my primary target to the Pyramids, with the Hanging Gardens as a contingency. Depending on the map and ultimate objective, Copernicus or Magellan would then be the trigger.

 

[HookEmHorns]

I appreciate your thoughts Alan. One gambling possibility is to make sure that our neighbors have Masonry early through trading and then hope they build the Pyramids for us. Asserting our Manifest Destiny to claim that city would allow the Industrial part of the ticket to be punched for when the next Wonder is built.

I'm convinced that the Great Lighthouse is a high priority since it will be a long time before contacts and maps can be traded so I'm going to focus on that.

If my initial explorations (scout S,S; worker w) don't show something good, I'm tempted to move my settler east. The Mediterranean package of added terrain bonuses included several good coastal ones and they really haven't been highlighted yet. The Chespeake Bay on which the real Washington sits is rich in oysters and fish. That move would make a palace jump more attractive.

Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing.
Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)

 

[Drazek]

Huts can give Predator players advantage by popping settlers because of others having 2+ cities at the beginning. In 3 test games, I got varying results: 2 settlers and a city; a city; just tech and gold. I hate this luck factor. I also got zero leaders in those test games, so I'll definitely prepare early for a palace jump.

 

[Offa]

Originally posted by HookEmHorns
I appreciate your thoughts Alan. One gambling possibility is to make sure that our neighbors have Masonry early through trading and then hope they build the Pyramids for us. Asserting our Manifest Destiny to claim that city would allow the Industrial part of the ticket to be punched for when the next Wonder is built.

I have almost always triggered golden ages with units, so I am ignorant on this subject, but assumed you had to build wonders yourself to get a golden age. Is it OK to capture them instead?

 

[HookEmHorns]

Originally posted by Offa


I have almost always triggered golden ages with units, so I am ignorant on this subject, but assumed you had to build wonders yourself to get a golden age. Is it OK to capture them instead?

My understanding from the boards (though I have not experienced it) is that if you capture the needed wonders you don't get the Golden Age then, but you will when you build your next wonder. Can anyone confirm or deny?