GOTM 28 Pre-Game Discussion (Saves now available)

[Drazek]

Hehheh, after all these replies I must tell my expectations.

I'm expecting Deity, on a lonely tundra start, as Affirmative "said": Ainwood will and wants this to be remembered as the hardest gotm ever!

Yeah, I was going to say that even before Affirmative's reply. But I must still echo that here!

edit. Wow, I got three most recent replies in a row. Do I now get some prize!?

 

[Affirmative]

Most definatly Drazek.


I'm excited to play as India. India was the first Civ I had ever won an Emperor game on, and the second Civ I've ever won deity with.

A lot of people said that there wouldn't be very many resources available this game. But, even if they are right, it won't make that much of a difference. India's big powerhouse, the War Elephant, doesn't need resources. This will make the part of GOTM28 much easier.

Unless of course we are stuck on some island somewhere way alone and the AI launches before we reach the Middle Ages.


Edit: After reading the Gotm28 page, with the 'mystery' landmass and size, we just might get stuck on some island somewhere. Doh! The naval movement changes just further support that.

 

[Tech Step]

I am very tempted to have a look from the mountain but don't want to waste 1 or 2 worker turns.

what do others think in the whole isdea of using the worker as an early scout for a couple of turns?

Do you think it is worth finding a spot that is just that little bit better for a starting point for the capital? or do you think it's better to just start where you land?

 

[Bolka]

The mountain is indeed very tempting, especially with the river around, you might find an excellent location for a good settlers factory capital.
The other alternative I guess, is to send Mr. Worker east and mine/road that tile.

I sure hope this is not a small island.

 

[gozpel]

I hate wasting worker turns, but sometimes it's necessary. This start is not a very good start, so I would advice myself to take a look from the mountaintop. If there is nothing special I would lose a couple of slow worker turns. I hate it because those 2 or maybe even 3 turns can make the delivery of the first settler slowed down too much to get the best grab of lands.

This time we have no explorer helping us finding good spots, so we need to get production up asap. And get those tiles working.

I hope we get an extra warrior in Open games.

Ah well, I guess I will live another day by wasting a few worker turns. What's interesting is that we have yet again a bunch of opponents - 9 of them. And the map and landmass are mystery so I have absolutely no clue how to utilize the research. I never look at spacerace to find out what civs are playing, so I have to go for 40 turn gambits I guess. Yep, I just noticed we play Monarch, so that will be the way then.

At least we have religious trait and commercial that is good later on with lots of big/huge cities. And the Jumbo, a unit I recently learnt to love and respect.

Can I play the conquest version? I always played open or predator, will I be disqualified if I tried conquest?

Did I understand it right, we play with the same stuff as last GOTM, no maps or contacts until much later? It was wierd playing with those rules, but interesting. It made the game kida last longer.

 

[mad-bax]

I really must step back into GOTM. Being so engrossed in SG's lately I just haven't been able to complete one for ages.

If I were to speculate, I would imagine with 9 opponents that it will be a standard map. I would imagine that it will be a pangea with perhaps one or two civs on another smaller island and given several settlers and no ability to build wonders. If this is accurate, then perhaps the landmasses will be set up so that domination cannot be acheived without invading the other continent.

The start doesn't look brilliant, but I expect that choosing the correct position for the first city would give a significant advantage. For that reason putting the worker on the mountain would seem wise. But I won't do that. I'll probably play to get a settler built on turn 20, which will mean moving the worker to the east and mining and roading that BG first. Doing that will allow me to choose the best river tile for the capital, which I am guessing ATM will be the grass tile to the NE. If the River BG turns out to be the best tile for the worker then the 3 turns lost in scouting from the mountain will hurt IMO.

If I build a settler straight off then I'll research writing and lit probably at min science, and trade my starting techs for pottery. Then I'll settle down and play for a 100K, which obviously means I won't waste shields on the Great Library.

I'm looking forward to it, and seeing if my SG sabbatical has improved my game as much as I hope it has.

EDIT: I wouldn't expect easy access to iron and/or horses in this game. I might build some archers fairly early.

 

[Dianthus]

Originally posted by gozpel
...
so I have to go for 40 turn gambits I guess.
...
At least we have religious trait and commercial
...

Am I right in thinking we can't build a granary to start off with? If so then I will probably research that at max, then either 40 turn or max science after that.

Originally posted by gozpel
Can I play the conquest version? I always played open or predator, will I be disqualified if I tried conquest?

Previously the rules were that you could play conquest if you have never finished in the top 50%. I guess that hasn't changed since ainwood took over?

Originally posted by gozpel
Did I understand it right, we play with the same stuff as last GOTM, no maps or contacts until much later? It was wierd playing with those rules, but interesting. It made the game kida last longer.

That's what it says on the announcement page. I think a lot of the slow tech pace for GOTM27 was actually due to the extremely low ratio of land to sea rather than the map/contact trading changes.

 

[Bolka]

Just as a reminder:

India, being religious and commercial, will start with: Alphabet and Ceremonial burial

Religious buildings will cost less shields to build, cities will generate one extra commerce in the center. So in the beginning it means cheaper temples and one more commerce per city.

Indians will also suffer less corruption, and no anarchy when switching governments.

The indian special unit, the war elephant, has the same stats as the knight (4/3/2), 1 more HP, and doesn't require any ressource, whilst the knight requires both iron and horses.

Sounds good doesn't it?

 

[grahamiam]

Originally posted by Bolka
Just as a reminder:

The indian special unit, the war elephant, has the same stats as the knight (3/4/2), 1 more HP, and doesn't require any ressource, whilst the knight requires both iron and horses.

Sounds good doesn't it?

I believe the stats on the War Elephant are 4/3/2 and I don't think they have an extra HP, unless something has changed in the GOTM mod or I missed something. I believe you are refering to the C3C elephant.


Ainwood, is there any chance we could get a look at the minimap too? This start looks interesting

Thanks

 

[Bolka]

Yup, my bad, corrected the typo.

It'll be interesting to see if the extra HP of the war jumbo will/can be implemented.

 

[zagnut]

With Alphabet as a starting tech I will probably research straight to Map Making. In GOTM 27 that was not a good strategy because the new world was so far away it turned out to be too costly to try suicide Galleys. So many were lost. However, I am betting that Ainwood will not use the same concept in this GOTM. Therefore, suicide Galleys to make contact with civs on other continents will, hopefully, be practical.

Is there a compelling reason to move the Settler? It doesn't appear so to me. I will move the Worker to the bonus grassland to the east. That may reveal ocean at the end of the river. If we had another unit I would definitely move it to the mountain, but do not want to waste a turn, and possibly more, if the mountain doesn't reveal anything. If the move to the mountain did not reveal anything interesting then I would have to move my Worker two more squares to get back to the bonus grassland and would therefore waste 3 turns. It's not worth the risk.

In most games the complicated scenarios that I think up for the first couple of moves are usually changed after the first move anyway.

 

[Txurce]

In my opinion, the biggest argument for moving the worker to the mountain was cracker's desire that we look around first, which led him to create a bonus for those who did. I have no idea how dedicated ainwood is to this concept. I hope it is somewhat less than cracker, as most generic starts don't offer the sort of opportunities that cracker gave us if we looked around. I had come to feel that the best reason to look around in GOTMs wasn't because it was always the best general strategy, but the best strategy given the game designer's predilections.

In this case, the river is on the visible side of the mountain. It's hard to imagine what could be on the dark side of the mountain that would make me move in that direction, given that I would probably lose the river's advantage. In all likleihood, anything really attractive would be a few tiles away. If so, I don't think there's much of a loss by building on the spot, putting the worker to work right away, and founding the second city over there. And of course, if there's nothing so great there, then it's much better to settle on the spot.

I think the delayed-contact rules changes adapted from C3C are terrific, and hope we keep them in subsequent games. It keeps the game interesting for much longer - not just in terms of learning the map and plotting mega-strategy, but also in terms of researching, since widespread early contact is no longer guaranteed. That said, I agree with zagnut that our neighbors aren't likely to be as far off as thy were in GOTM27. For me, one of the points of the new rules isn't so much that you have to wait until navigation to meet everyone, but that you have to earn your contacts if you don't.

Given the reduced early contact, one of the gambles we must make is whether to first research pottery, or hope to acquire it by trade. The space-race key will give us some odds, but you can't count on odds. In GOTM27, our mediocre starting spot made the building of granaries a toss-up, as the results showed. That may be the case here. Once I found my capital, if I don't see any compelling reason to build a granary, I'll research writing; if wheat or cattle become visible, then it's pottery.

 

[smackster]

My only prediction for this GOTM is that it will be won by Cracker, playing his first GOTM in a long time.

Smackster

 

[denyd]

I'm thinking there will be some sort of natural barrier (mountains, jungle, water...) between us the 3-4 other AI in our local area. Probably Russia, China & the Mongols. Off in the distance will be the Arabs, Rome, the Ottomans and of course England. Maybe a couple of minor civs representing Afghanastan & Pakistan will share our local terrain.

As for science, unless I spot a border early, 100% for pottery in case a settler factory is available, then writing & literature. My builds will probably be warrior-warrior-temple-settler/granary. I'm a little concern about the Gilligan Factor (alone on a island). That would make our UU pretty worthless. I do suspect a key resource shortage similar to GOTM 27 as the map makers seem to be prepping us for Conquests. If the opportunity presents itself, I might go for a Space victory. It's been some time since I had one of those. One other thing to consider, is that at Monarch, the AI's won't being zooming along on tech, so I might have to resort to gifting a couple of scientific AI techs to keep them current (something I hate to do )

 

[RowAndLive]

We'll have to see how the "delayed contact trading" plays out. I was really miffed in GOTM27 that I was contacted by both the [x] and [y](?) several hundred years before I ever saw any of their units. Obviously, [z] must have been able to trade contact, even though it was not an option for me. I suppose that #2 could have gotten a junk near enough to see me, but whom was still under my fog, but I'm not really sure. I always monitor AI moves on the IBT, and definitely saw nothing.

Regardless, I definitely an advocate of building on the spot, even though in the early-mid game it requires a garrison on the adjacent mountain just to make sure that you don't get a bad suprise. Perhaps Conquest will give me the option of moving a starting warrior to the mountain for a preview.

 

[ainwood]

Originally posted by grahamiam
Ainwood, is there any chance we could get a look at the minimap too? This start looks interesting

Thanks

 

[grahamiam]

Thanks! I also like your trade assist utility

 

[gozpel]

Originally posted by Dianthus

Am I right in thinking we can't build a granary to start off with? If so then I will probably research that at max, then either 40 turn or max science after that.

I like a granary in the starting town, with or without food recources so I always research Pottery first at max. Then hopefully trading or a goodyhut will give me the option to do a 40 turn research. If not, I might go for MapMaking at max.

Originally posted by Txurce
...given that I would probably lose the river's advantage.

You're right! That comment made me decide to move the worker to the BG to the east. I don't expect to find cows in the shadows there, but will probably move the settler NE off the forest anyways and try for a timely granary chop.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by RowAndLive
We'll have to see how the "delayed contact trading" plays out. I was really miffed in GOTM27 that I was contacted by both the [X] and the [Y] several hundred years before I ever saw any of their units. Obviously, [Z] must have been able to trade contact, even though it was not an option for me. I suppose that #2 could have gotten a junk near enough to see me, but whom was still under my fog, but I'm not really sure. I always monitor AI moves on the IBT, and definitely saw nothing.

(Edited for spoiler info)

I doubt if civs get any contact trading advantages. My guess is the other civs caught a glimpse of you sometime when you didn't see them. I had the opposite effect. A junk flitted into and out of sight during the interturn a couple of times but I wasn't able to make contact

 

[Affirmative]

After playing around with sn00pys terrain mod, I've decided that the circled tile contains a cow. I could be wrong, because the start position picture is so little.


So don't hate me when I am wrong.