GOTM 38 First Spoiler - 500 AD min. or Submitted

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GOTM 38 First Spoiler



Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in GOTM 38, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
  • You must have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
  • You have submitted your entry


Posting Restrictions

  • Please do not discuss anything post 500 AD.
  • Please do not discuss any events in locations or reveal any of the map not reachable before caravels.
  • Please do not name any civs that are not contactable before caravels.
 
jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest cultural victory.

The plan was to kill 2 AI early to make room and to take good sites. Then CS sling, Parthenon and an easy cruise to victory.

But luck wanted it otherwise! My Scout popped a settler:sad:
I hadn't realised we were playing so low a level. I consider Civ a strategic game and popping settlers or workers just spoils the game for me. I thought about abandoning the game.

But you don't see a corn in a FP every day, so I decided to use the game as a test bed. I will try an unusual (for me) way of winning cultural, just to see what happens.

And of course, the new settler will be treated as an scout and will be given as food to the first animal I find:devil:. That's how strongly I feel against popped settlers!!! Of course that's just me, it's my problem if I don't like them.

More about my experiment in the final spoiler!
 
I decided to play a peaceful variant, as running over the AIs at this difficulty level would not really be a challenge. I would never declare war for any reason, but if an AI declared on me, they would be fair game. Bribing AIs to fight each other was also off limits, as was intentionally pushing an AI to declare on me.

Given these constraints, I needed to settle agressively to make sure I would get enough land for my long-term victory (space, culture, or diplo, depending on how things developed). So I did not go for an early religion, and instead pushed worker techs and early expansion, figuring I would get at least a couple of the later religions anyway.

Settled in place, building a worker first and teching Mining for early access to the silver. After that I went for Wheel and early Pottery to get cottages growing.

Early exploration met Mansa and Caesar by turn 15; the others would be met a bit later, with all being found by turn 45. Popped a few huts, getting gold and XP -- pretty poor pops for this difficulty level, but no big deal. My initial scout lived long enough to make a large anti-clockwise circle, finding the borders of all the AIs. Caesar was obviously the biggest worry due to his nearby capital; I made a sustained effort to settle the good sites towards his capital, and succeeded in taking everything south and west of Rome itself: gems, stone, the triple cow site south of Rome, the flood plains west of Rome. Poor Caesar ended up expanding east and north instead, and I secured a significant chunk of land for my growing empire.

Teching AH and BW revealed that horses were a ways off while copper was nearby, so I relied on axemen for barb defense. Lost a few tiles to pillaging, but was never in serious danger of losing a city. I did eventually get that horses site settled, but did not actually build any immortals as I was not going to fight any AIs if I could help it.

By 500 AD I had founded the four later religions and built my first shrine (Confucian), although I avoided adopting a state religion to avoid conflict with the AIs. They had formed two blocks, 3 Buddhist and 3 Hindu. I was building wonders (Pyramids, HG, GrLib, Stonehenge, Oracle; Notre Dame under construction), and had expanded to 9 cities, with the AI trailing distantly in tech.

A very enjoyable game so far, emphasizing builder play. The raging barbs were just enough to keep things lively, and for me to not totally neglect my defenses as I might otherwise have done at this difficulty level. Would the peace last, or would this build-fest break down into warfare? Watch for the next spoiler post. :)
 
Please do not discuss anything post 500 AD.
Please do not discuss any events in locations or reveal any of the map not reachable before caravels.
Please do not name any civs that are not contactable before caravels.

If I had acheived my goal of a BC conquest, there would be no way to reveal anything post 500AD, but since at 500AD some AI were still alive, I'll have to restrain myself.

As for discussing civs unreachable before caravels, that number is exactly zero on a Great Plains map, so no worries.

My story:

As Persia, I was hoping to get Immortals and wipe the field early. With AH, I saw no horses in the search pattern I encircled my capitol with, and went on to BW since with all that food I knew whipping would be very beneficial to fast conquest. Copper showed up right next to Rome's borders, and I planted a settler (which I popped from a goody hut, LOL) next to it to claim it. Built a bunch of axes (four or 5) and one spear, and with that captured Rome and razed Antium. Supplemented a little, then went on to capture Timbuktu and Djenne, but got all Mansa's tech for peace instead of finishing him.

This was about 500BC, and I began realizing that finishing this before 0AD would be almost impossible for me. Just too much land, too spread out. My 5 cities are pretty spread out, but connected by roads. My economy is humming along fine thanks to cottages in Capitol. I see horse, but the time for Immortals is past, so I don't settle there yet.

And then the Barbs come in earnest. I think the first Barb Axe came about the same time I was attacking Rome (3000BC or so). But mostly just warriors and archers. But now after deflating Mansa, every city is attacked simultaneously by 3 barb axes EVERY TURN. Needless to say, I spent the next 1000 years mostly just killing barbs. Fogbusting would have required more units than defending, because the whole west was low-visibility terrain and my empire is spread out.

But just before 500AD I have my end-game stack together consisting of maces, cats, and a few LB's. I have settled the horse site (which also help tactical barb defense) and will be sending Knights as reinforcements. AI cities are defended by archers mostly, a handful of axes maybe, and a few chariots. Seen a sword or two, but nothing to worry me. However, there are MANY AI cities by now, and this Great Plains map type has such a huge land area that its will be a long hard march before I finish.

These xOTM's have lately made me feel very inadequate.

BTW- I did manage to avoid wonder-building. I think I built Oracle (taking Feudalism for Vassalage), but nothing else. I even did a good job whipping early, but for some reason (lost focus) turned soft during the barb-defense phase. Still stayed focused on military techs and unit building, but lost a lot of turns by growing. I guess I was worried about the economy. I shouldn't have been.... this is warlord level, and I never had the slider below 70% research. I think I ran Vassalage/Slavery/Theocracy for most of the game to 500AD.

Go to the final spoiler to see how inadequate my finish date is, if you want some laughs.
 
This is my first GOTM, normally playing on Noble, so I decided to test some agressive strategies. I quickly found Ceaser and conquered him with a stack of 4 Warriors and an Archer while I kept popping up cottages around my capitol. Barbs were a continuous problems and kept invading from the North, but were kept in check by two axeman on the Hills across the river.

After wiping Ceaser, I expanded East and discovered the French Civilization. Needoess to say, I wiped them in a few turns and gained some adequate production cities and razed his poorly placed ones. Shortly after, I declared on Kubali Khan, and this is about the tiem I hit 500 AD.
 
jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest cultural victory.

I decided to go cultural in this game, after reading this sentence I have no chance.:lol:

From memory -
The early part of my game went smoother and luckier than I expected as I found a lot of goody huts and popped a couple of techs, a worker, a settler, a warrior, and gold a couple of times. I wasn't nearly as noble, aka confident, as jesusin so I kept everything. To offset my great luck with huts I had less luck with barbs with them attacking and winning a number of longshot battles and pillaging a handful of tiles but only once was I worried about them taking a city. I was able to raise enough defense just in time to prevent it though.

I planned on a mostly peaceful game but I did steal a couple of workers from Julius before wiping out his single city. After that I went into expansion, missionary, and Great Artist farming mode.

I felt like I was playing a good game but know that was largely because of the low difficulty, my luck with huts, and crippling Julius. Culture is my 2nd weakest VC other than space so I doubt even my luck and jesusin's nobility and experimenting will be enough to allow me to beat him.:blush:
 
Interesting game setup. I hadn't played Great Plains before, but my research seemed to indicate that our high food start wouldn't be unique. Also, the size of the map would really limit our ability to go for fast conquest. Lot of open space for the AI to sneak a settler into and raging barbs would mean extra units tied down for city protection if we weren't expanding our borders relentlessly. I decided on going for fast growth/expansion to domination, or fallback to an attempt at the cow (appropriate on this map I think).

I settled in place and started on animal husbandry and a worker. No surprise to not see horses close by. That meant bronze working would be high priority. I wanted to grow quickly to take advantage of slavery, so I wasn't in a huge hurry to work desert silver right away. I diverted to wheel and started a settler on turn 13.

Normally I'd wait for the AI to build wonders for me, but my thought is that rapid expansion + warring would stress my economy so I wanted Pyramids for the science boost. I also thought that the crappy AI would force me to self research a lot as well. For these reasons, I founded parsagardae (turn 34) on top of the NW silver to claim incense, corn, and stone in the fat cross and built a worker first.

The capitol continued to build settlers with a couple of warriors mixed in and I built Susa (turn 45) SE on river plains to get copper, Arbela (turn 56) NE to get gold, pigs, and another copper, and Tarsus (turn 59) further SE on the plains hill near the southern river. By turn 61, stone was online, and I built stonehenge in the capitol on turn 71 and pyramids on turn 90 in Arbela.

After completing the two wonders, I revolted to rep, bureau, caste, and org reg and started the GL in Susa which I anticipated would be my main GP farm of mostly scientists. I continued to build settlers in various cities and claim space in the best food sites in the mountains and near the triple cow, and along the river in the SE. As quick warring isn't something I'm great at and seeing as I hadn't DOW on anyone yet, I made the decision to go for cow. I continued wonder building as it made sense - Parthenon, HG in the same city as pyramids, and HE in a production city. Towards the end of the 500AD cutoff, I was starting to build CR axeman with maceman planned shortly as Machinery was underway.

Research path was AH, wheel, mining, BW, pottery, masonry, mysticism, writing, math, poly, priesthood, monotheism, COL, IW, civ serv (oracle), alpha. Traded for fishing, archery, monarch, meditation (AI sucks). Then lit, sailing (traded), currency, metal casting, music, drama, theology, paper, calendar, education, machinery.
 
Plan: Fast conquest with Immortals and HA (managed 100 AD with Jungles, thanks you by the way, save)
Research: Up to HR (including BW for chop/whiping), then save all money so I could keep all AI cities.
Founded in place, scouted and settled an 2nd city by the horses N up towards Mansa (also gave gold). Took out Ceasar and decided to make a counter clock-wise wipe all out with my might hoard (spelling?).
I was little afraid of Mansas techning so I declared on him once to steal a worked with a scouting Immortal and later (after peace) sent 2 HA on him to stop him from hooking up metal around 500 BC.
Guess what I found in his capital at 350BC? LONGBOWS!!! Feudalism sling by the AI! I thought they were suppose to be easy at this level!

Well, the far away land proceeded much slower than I hoped too but I think I had just finished of Ghengis at 500 AD.
 
Contender save

Decided to pursue a quick military victory. Settled in place and aimed to make the capital a production city relying on gold / silver for research. Rexed to 3 cities to secure more precious metal sites then built axes and took Rome.

Caught buddhism from Mansa and decided to leave him alive as a trading partner to backfill trash techs. Built Oracle in the capital for Machinery slingshot. Expanded along the river to the east, then built crossbows and attacked Genghis along the coast. At 500AD I was planning to continue anticlockwise, keeping AI cities until I reach the domination limit. Probably tech up to Gunpowder or Chemistry before pushing the culture slider up all the way to grab a few more tiles.

nokem
 
Very fast teching game (played during morning instead of very early morning...say 1 to 4 AM :crazyeye:).

Settled in the spot and headed to alpabet after mining via pottary. Unlike Jesusin, I was selfish and kept the settler for a GS farm west of Rome with cow and 5 flood plains and later had copper in BFC. Settled 3rd and 4th city to claim stone and copper to immidiate southeast. 5th city claimed the iron and horses to the north and the sixth city claimed......nothing ;).

First GS built an acadamy, and the second settled in the capital. Only real risk taken was to get Education from the Oracel. We did get Education from Oracle on turn 89. Built the Pyramids and the Glib in tha capital.

At 500 AD we were about to finish Economics and head to Replaceable parts.

Planning to go take the 4 very high production but poorly used cities from French, followed by Arab and Mongolian Cities. Building Muskets and Knights but will likely la la gag because I feel like a creep attacking a civ at this level but I go want the high production tiles.

Been runing OR, Rep, Bue and slavary so far. I know for a fact I will forget to switch to Merc or FreeTrade for a long time due to playing the second session past mid night :mad: I swear if I could get myself to play the way how I want to, I can be a better player.

Anyways..plan to head to Bio before Computer from Liberalism....Since other AI's are no where technologically....I probably get Future techs from Lib at the current rate. In the end game we will likely be running State Prop and Pacifism with Buro, Rep and Cast. Hope to do my best Space time in this game.
 
In the end game we will likely be running State Prop and Pacifism with Buro, Rep and Cast. Hope to do my best Space time in this game.

Pacifism in the endgame of a Space game?:confused:

I'd say by then the price of a GP is too high and the comeback too low. Why not Free Religion instead?
 
Pacifism in the endgame of a Space game?:confused:

I'd say by then the price of a GP is too high and the comeback too low. Why not Free Religion instead?

Hum...You have a good point there. I was thinking about getting 3 Golden Ages back to back when the Appalo is available with 5 Gpeople and the Taj Wonder. But I may have to reconsider.

I suppoase I could run some calculations around 13th century but calculations stay at work with my calculator and :p I tend to be lazy (Also I belong to my kids and my wife once I am at home). Thank you for your input, I will likely use it.
 
Okay, I'm glad I finally reached 500 AD so I can say this, I dislike this type of map set-up. However, I am enjoying the game. :)
 

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jesusin, contender. Goal: fastest cultural victory.

Damn, damn, damn....

(that's my goal as well. Jesusin, I thought you were going for the gold medal these days!)

Managed to found Judaism, Confucianism, and Taoism, so I can build three cheap cathedrals in each legendary city (have stone and copper, no marble). I never got anything but cash from goody huts.

The three legendary cities will be the capital (settled in place), to the east along the same river, and at the bend of the river in the northeast. Have cottaged all of them pretty heavily. No decent GP farm this game. The only spot to do so would have been the capital.

I'm finding my research pace is faster than my expansion. The starting position makes this a pretty high-commerce game, more than I'm used to, I guess, and I should have expanded more quickly. I have been researching a few techs not directly in line to liberalism, because I'm too slow in getting my cathedrals up and figure I might as well get a few extra military techs.

Should still be an easy win, just not the fastest.
 
Adventurer save. I really appreciate the chance to compare a Warlord game with other peoples'; I've been struggling for a long time at Noble and not succeeding very well. It's nice for me to go back to Warlord and find that, even though my Noble-level games don't go so well, I've at lease picked up a few skills I didn't have a year ago.

I settled in place and went Mining > AH > Archery > Bronze. Given that I had the Adventurer save's worker, I wanted to be able to work the silver ASAP. The lack of nearby horses was a bummer, so I decided to settle a couple of nearby cities:


Of course the horses were just out of sight to the north, but even if I knew they were there I suspect I'd have built the same two first cities. Notice the black unknown just to the east: a good 5-FP site with copper was visible, and had I seen the cows hidden there, I might have noticed it was also worth considering (the FP alone would have alerted a more experienced player, I think, esp. since they'd already know to look for a good GP farm, and I've only just learned to build one in the last couple of Nobles' Club games). My third city, Arbela, was near the horses, but I didn't build it until much later (850 BC) after a successful CS slingshot. Thus my only two immortals saw little action, each eventually succumbing to barbarians while replacing the two scouts that died earlier. The barbarians weren't a huge problem aside from that; they pillaged a couple of improvements before I could move archers, or, later, axemen, close enough to kill them. Eventually I had enough protectors around that even the axemen died quickly without damaging anything. I seem to recall that in earlier Civs there could be barbarian musketeers and suchlike; in Civ IV, do they cease to be a problem after a while, even if there are big unsettled areas left (there's nobody in the northwest, for example)?

Huts were very nice to me, especially the last two:
  • 3400 BC experience for my scout
  • 3280 BC map of the area to my east eventually occupied by Julius and Louis
  • 3200 BC gold
  • 3080 BC gold
  • 2080 BC technology: metal casting! too bad there wasn't any place to build a Colossos.
  • 1080 BC technology: horseback riding, thus, it seemed to me, obsoleting my immortals before I built any.
I didn't notice when I hit 475 AD so can only examine and post info for my 475 AD save (shortly after building the Hanging Gardens). Here is the Persian Empire.

Mansa and Ghengis are Confucian with me; Hatty is Hindu (and has the shrine), Louis is Jewish, and Saladin is Buddhist. Until recently Julius was Jewish also, but he has switched to Confucian. I haven't done any warmongering yet but am working towards taking out Khazak to my north. After that, my nearest neighbours are Louis and Julius. I hate to tackle a co-religionist :) but, once I noticed Julius doesn't have iron connected yet, I figured I need to take him out before he gets Praetorians. Then on to Louis; at that point I suspect the territorial ambitions of the Persians may slow a bit. I notice that Woaz decided on the same pair and expects to go after Ghengis next, but as he's Pleased and likely bribable into attacking other civs for me, I think I'll keep him around! I don't want to go after Mansa, since he's the only one who has teched fast enough to have anything to offer in trades (Philosophy, giving me a jump towards Liberalism and the free technology).

Game status in 475 AD: This is my first use of Photobucket thumbnails instead of full images; let me know if having to click twice is annoying, or, if you don't want to look at them, whether having just thumbnails is an improvement over spoilers with the full images.

The score and power charts show that Hatchepsut appears to be my closest rival,possibly going for a cultural victory given the victory screen. She's the only other Civ with any wonders (Stonehenge and Hindu shrine); I have the Confucian shrine (Pasagardae) and the Oracle, Pyramids, and Hanging Gardens in Persepolis. I want to build up a different city as a science centre, partly to avoid polluting a "great scientist" gene pool with prophets and engineers, but couldn't figure out where until I decided to build Gordium with farms on the flood plains for growth, then convert to cottages once I built it up enough. Is this two-stage strategy for Gordium silly? After reading nerbuth's plan to use a city to the SE near copper for this purpose, I have to figure out whether to use my Bactra (his Susa) instead. Gordium has more food, especially once I farm the flood plains, but Bactra has more usable territory around it. It's pretty clear there once was a much better location for a science city:
Unlike Jesusin, I was selfish and kept the settler for a GS farm west of Rome with cow and 5 flood plains and later had copper in BFC.
I deduce this must be the location 2E of the copper I mined with my Pasargadae. It's pretty clear from my dotmap that I hadn't explored quite far enough before committing to my first two cities. Pasargadae makes this location weaker for me; it does get valuable copper, gold, and sheep, though.
 
... so I decided to settle a couple of nearby cities:

I can't state it is a mistake, but... I'd never settle the red-dotmapped city. What would those poor guys eat?!? :cry:

I love food (just look at my signature :rolleyes: ) and I never settle a city without 1 food resource (2 is what I normally look for). In this game, a site with a bunch of FP can make up for the lack of food resources, though.
 
...I wasn't nearly as noble, aka confident, as jesusin so I kept everything....

...and jesusin's nobility ...

Noble? Surely you mean stubborn/arrogant!
Killing your own settlers is not something to be proud of.

Many others have imposed handicaps on themselves to make the game more interesting... like your choosing the cultural VC! :p
 
I can't state it is a mistake, but... I'd never settle the red-dotmapped city. What would those poor guys eat?!? :cry:
You are too kind; it really was a mistake.:blush: Later in the posting I pointed out that it cut off a good science city location (5FP+cows) that other people noticed, and I never even thought about until someone pointed it out in this thread. Moral for good players: even minor comments you make can really help out us weaker players!

Upon reflection, I may have been thinking that the sheep were enough food, and excessively focused on getting the gold along with the bronze. The hypothetical FP city would have got the bronze, and then I'd have gold from the city further west that could afford to stay small because it was justified (I think) for the stone. Now I have two early cities (both of them from the dotmap) that are now strangled for lack of food, rather than just one. Red is a decent enough military production city at the moment, so not a total loss.

I'm still learning some really basic stuff, but, as I said in my posting, I can see some definite improvements from before I started playing the Nobles' Club games.

Noble? Surely you mean stubborn/arrogant!
Killing your own settlers is not something to be proud of.
How about "intensely focused" instead of "stubborn/arrogant?"
 
You are too kind; it really was a mistake.:blush: Later in the posting I pointed out that it cut off a good science city location (5FP+cows) that other people noticed, and I never even thought about until someone pointed it out in this thread. Moral for good players: even minor comments you make can really help out us weaker players!

Upon reflection, I may have been thinking that the sheep were enough food, and excessively focused on getting the gold along with the bronze. The hypothetical FP city would have got the bronze, and then I'd have gold from the city further west that could afford to stay small because it was justified (I think) for the stone. Now I have two early cities (both of them from the dotmap) that are now strangled for lack of food, rather than just one. Red is a decent enough military production city at the moment, so not a total loss.

I'm still learning some really basic stuff, but, as I said in my posting, I can see some definite improvements from before I started playing the Nobles' Club games.



Errrr... I was referring to the other city, the one in the NW of the capital. Am I daltonic? :crazyeye:

The city with sheep, gold, copper is great, I think it is the same spot I settled my 2nd cultural city, the one that was destined to be "the hammer cultural city".

How about "intensely focused" instead of "stubborn/arrogant?"
If I were so focused I would have killed my initial settler too, wouldn't I? :lol:
 
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