GOTM 39 First Spoiler

jesusin

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GOTM 39 First Spoiler



Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in GOTM 39, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
  • You have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
  • You have submitted your entry


Posting Restrictions

  • Please do not discuss anything post 500 AD.
  • Please do not discuss any events in locations or reveal any of the map not reachable before caravels.
  • Please do not name any civs that are not contactable before caravels.
 
Settler wandered for a couple of turns, found the marble hill, settled on it, and chariot rushed America. Hamburg was built up north to flip the barb city I found up there.

Eventually Genghis attacked, so I beat him around a little while waiting for catapults, and then proceeded to maul him.
 
Reading Requirements

Stop! If you are participating in GOTM 39, then you MUST NOT read this thread unless EITHER
  • You have reached at least 500 AD in your game, OR
  • You have submitted your entry
I dream of the day I'll be able to read a XOTM 1st spoiler thread by fulfilling the 2nd condition (and by posting a victory, not a loss :p), without fulfilling the first one. In this game I tried hard but missed by a couple turns. :sad:

Cool mystery map, with a very nice twist created by the ice/mountain barrier. :goodjob: It was fun looking back at the pre-game and noticing how close some guesses were to the actual game. :)
 
It was fun looking back at the pre-game and noticing how close some guesses were to the actual game. :)

I could have killed the guy who wrote the first message on that thread and already was speaking about flipping the barb city. :mad:
;) :lol: ;)
 
First off, nice map, congrats to jesusin for a truly different game.

Settle in place.
Next turn or so i saw Mongol borders and i changed my research from the Wheel to archery.
Attacked GK with 3 archers and a warrior, right in the turn he popped a worker.
The only survivor archer was slightly damaged, and was enough to defeat the seriously damaged mongol warrior. GK out. Worker in.
By then i has the Wheel, straight to IW.

Then the path to CoL and Math, with a slight deviation to masonry.
Karakorum was a great production city, my "engineers" city and after barracks started pump a couple axes and lot of swords.
Berlin finished the 4th archer, then worker (a long thing to mine under jungle), then some more archer and library when it was avaiable.

When i has some 6-7 attackers declared to Roos, took NYC which he settled 1W of marble.
Then an easy rush to Washingtom, but... more blue borders south.
Boston was planted in the FP N of banana, right.

In the meantime, Oracle was in for a CS sling, and alphabet arrived that same turn.
toughts... more thoughts...
peace with Roos for fishing and agri.
Few turns later some english unit (i kept a scout on a hill, i could see white borders) or some border pop introduced me to Victoria: quickly traded OB and Sail+Pottery for IW.
Few turns, another border pop and ... MC from the GH near Carib, and Carib asked to join in the same turn. Only 2 barb warriors weren't a problem for the free archer. Carib first built? a WB.
Met Napo, a potential problem to my poor close-but-so-distant city.
Then i waited some turn after the 10 of peace, dowed Roos which has not met anyone yet, kept Boston with another worker (3 free workers total, not bad).
Quickly eliminated him. I has some trading partner, and no possible threats to my homeland.
But Carib.

More will follow, dinner time, now.
 
I could have killed the guy who wrote the first message on that thread and already was speaking about flipping the barb city. :mad:
;) :lol: ;)


:rotfl: Now you know how I felt when the very first post in the BOTM 13 pregame referred to "A hub/snowflake design with Ghandi in the center?".

Is the GOTM community full of mindreaders or what...?
 
Did the northern Barbs build the Pyramids in anyone else's game? I can't remember when exactly it was but it was definitely pre-500 AD.

Anyway, took the settler south and west and the scout north and west, figuring the land up north wouldn't be very good. Travelled until I found the trio of dye and settled on the hill just south of a peak, eventually finding horses in the BFC. Rushed GK, settled a few more cities in the south and another to flip Carib. Beelined Music for an easy flip by using the GA for a great work. Declared on Roosevelt and started my conquest of him as I approached 500 AD.
 
After very long thinking I settled ENE of the marble instead 1E (I was thinking about warrior rushing my neighbors and weighed long term nice placement vs sure warrior rush). Opted for the first and succesfully warrior rushed both Mongols then Americans anyway.
I guestimated that I needed some sort of empire because I wouldn't achieve conquest either before astro, or either after having some soil on the other side of the ice to build an empire. I gabmled right.

Further gambling down the road after knowing my land:
- flipping barb city was the only way to get to the others (IOW, I gambled the see on the west would be blocked to, so I never prioritised exploring there)

So, I flipped the barb city, captured the other, built an army... preparing for fastest conquest.

Very funny empire now. Two totally isolated civs, well, not totally, jesusin was so kind to lead the river through the mountains so trade is possible. Still, for fast conquest slavery is prefered for the ex barb cities, but I'd rather have caste in my "old" cities (the builder in me). Same goes for theocracy right vs pasifism left, monarchy right vs representation left (built the mids).

The fun in this game is that I had to balance building in one empire and war in the other..

I'm not the focussed kind of guy...
 
Aiming for space and - what a start - I started exploring and actually met the Mongols before I'd planted my capital!

And - well - congratulations Jesusin. You totally flummoxed me. Normally I feel pretty confident in my early game, but in this one I literally didn't know what to! You actually devised a map that made noble level a challenge! :goodjob: I couldn't even decide where to put the capital, with little food anywhere, no obvious long term commerce site that I could use to take advantage of the CS slingshot, and being boxed in between the mountains, the Mongols and the Americans.

After a bit of exploring, I founded the capital on the forest 1NW of the start, where it could keep the pigs, have only one unusable tile in the fat cross, gain marble, but lose one of the gems - but I could always grab that gem with another city.

Ordinarily I would've quickly invaded the neighbours, but what was the point? I didn't want either of their capitals. Washington was founded in an absolutely idiotic location. Karakorum was by itself in a sensible location, but wasted lots of good tiles between it and Berlin, including making it impossible to get a sensible city that could use the 2nd gems if I left Karakorum in place. So if I invaded either nearby civ, I'd simply waste a ton of hammers building units, and get no decent cities out of it. Should I be peaceful and found cities far away, destroying what little early commerce I had with a capital surrounded by hills? And what was I supposed to do with so little food. And what about all those forests? I needed to chop them to get cottages but didn't actually have anything I could usefully build with the choppings :crazyeye:

(I later changed my mind about Karakorum when I realized Genghis had founded Hinduism there, and there were only two contactable civs so few chances for other religions. That just made taking and keeping Karakorum worth it).

I built Hamburg to the North, to grab the fish, wheat, iron and ivory calculating that would make a reasonable GP farm, and in the end went on the warpath, resulting in my having 7 cities in 500AD (2 founded, 4 captured, and Saxon flipped from barbs). My plan (not yet realized in 500AD) was to move my capital to Karakorum, that being a far better-looking commerce city than Berlin.




As to those barbs and the ice barrier and the culture-flipping thing. That was a clever and original twist to the map :goodjob: jesusin. I didn't get Carib because of founding my capital too far away, but Saxon quickly flipped under Hamburg's influence. Looking at the map I can't help wondering if jesusin deliberately placed the resources around there to so induce us to found a city so close to Saxon? But what kind of joke was that with Carib having no food, and Saxon only being able to eat if it took food away from Hamburg (jesusin - didn't you know Hamburg was going to be my great person factory and so could not afford to lose its wheat?!?!?! :lol:) And as for putting those fish to the NE of Saxon, just out of Saxon's fat cross - how much crueller can you get?…. lust…. lust… :mad: :mad:

Funny thing is, when Saxon flipped to me, I really was on the point of clicking 'no, raze it' because of the overlap with Hamburg. I didn't (and with hindsight I'm so glad I didn't) only because at that point I'd already explored enough of the ice/mountain barrier to have a pretty good suspicion the barrier really was going to turn out impossible to circumvent without flipping the barbs.

At any rate, thanks to my ambling around not knowing what to do in most of the BC years, my 500AD science is pretty pathetic. I have civil service (but no high commerce capital to make any use of it) but not much else, and my sustainable science rate is awful - 30ish bpt. Even if the rest of the game goes swimmingly, I fear this is going to be one of my worst GOTM results in a long while…
 
Okay, I guessed that we had to flip those barbs cities, and so that was my gameplan.

I settled after 1 turn where DS setted, and proceeded to build a worker. I'm going for domination. I will flip those barb cities.

On turn 43 I DOW Rooz, steal a worker. I sign a peace treaty turn 67.

Flipped Saxon turn 138, Dow'ed Rooz turn 151 and took Washington down turn 154, Boston in turn 161, Philly turn 167 and bye bye Roozie. Captured Goth in Turn 177.

Build Mids turn 121 in Berlin, GE Finishes Hanging Gardens turn 167 in Berlin, Great Lighthouse turn 185 in Saxon.

Learned Civil Service turn 201.

I had 8 cities at 500 AD, a large science rate, and a large tech lead already...

Genghis is gonna get invaded!

Spoiler :


jesusin(Germany) declares war on Roosevelt(America)
Turn 154/660 (205 BC) [03-Feb-2009 20:27:29]
Captured Washington (Roosevelt)
Turn 158/660 (145 BC) [03-Feb-2009 20:33:55]
Imhotep (Great Engineer) born in Berlin
Turn 161/660 (100 BC) [03-Feb-2009 20:36:16]
Captured Boston (Roosevelt)
Turn 167/660 (10 BC) [03-Feb-2009 20:43:31]
Berlin begins: The Hanging Gardens (57 turns)
Berlin finishes: The Hanging Gardens
Captured Philadelphia (Roosevelt)
jesusin(Germany) and Roosevelt(America) have signed a peace treaty
Tech learned: Monarchy
Research begun: Construction (13 Turns)
Washington grows: 4
Turn 177/660 (140 AD) [03-Feb-2009 20:54:13]
Captured Goth (Barbarian)
Turn 185/660 (260 AD) [03-Feb-2009 21:01:13]
Saxon finishes: The Great Lighthouse
Turn 191/660 (350 AD) [03-Feb-2009 21:07:22]
Research begun: Civil Service (23 Turns)
Archimedes (Great Engineer) born in Berlin
Hamburg finishes: Catapult
Washington grows: 6
Turn 201/660 (500 AD) [03-Feb-2009 21:14:39]
Hamburg begins: Courthouse (11 turns)
Research begun: Metal Casting (13 Turns)
Research begun: Civil Service (16 Turns)

IBT:

 
WONDERMONGERING with a bent for WAR

Hellwitch correctly pointed out in reply to my pregame discussion post, that I was really wonder-mongering, with a martial attitude. Although I still make many newbie mistakes, I am in that Awkward Stage (AS for short). In fact, I’m probably an Awkward Stage Specialist (that’d be ASS… oops, nevermind ! :mischief: ).

I briefly considered a cultural approach (afterall, it’s a Jesusin game). But, I had been making notes on early (earlier for me) warmaking. And as I’m fond of saying, to a carpenter with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. But, after I saw the lay of the land, the proximity of my neighbors confirmed that this might have been a good choice. They were almost blocking my access to needed land and resources as the early game developed.

I’ve been trying to play faster in Real Time (RT), but I had too many hours in the game by 500AD. I’m not really slow, I just play half-fast… :lol: wait, that didn’t come out right.

AT 500 AD

Anyway, I had Roosevelt on the run circa (ca.) 500AD. He has two cities remaining (that I know of). I destroyed the Mongol civilization ca. 275AD. I have Math but not Construction, so I’ve warred so far without cats, and luckily America and Mongolia had no real cultural defenses.

I had eleven cities total ca. 500AD. The wonders I have built are Oracle (115o BC), Parthenon (64o BC), Pyramids (625 BC), and I think the only other one I’m working on now is Colussus.

FIRST TIME SE

The other new thing for me is that I am trying an SE for the first time ever. Since we were given Frederick (Philo trait), I figured it was a good time to learn about Specialist Economies (SE). Circa 500AD, I’m about break-even and my cultural slider/science slider is at zero. Hmmm… hoping I understand how this is going to work out for ‘ol Frederick. :confused:

WHAT I’LL REMEMBER

I am absolutely loving this month’s game. At my high level war college meetings with Frederick, we are referring to the land strip where the Barb cities are at the beginning as the “Outer Banks.” And, as in my pregame discussion post about this being similar to a parallel universe, etc. , I'll remember this month’s game as the “Outer Limits” (the name of an old Sci-Fi TV program).

THANKS TO STAFF & Jesusin

I’ve even been watching the wonder movies. Suspect I’ll see some I’ve never seen before… It just doesn’t get much better than this., (unless the Swedish bikini team is in one of the wonder movies?). Thanks to Jesusin for an interesting challenge.

Adama
 
Territory sure is cramped in this game so far! With America and Mongolia founding cities so close, and the mountain restriction, there's little or no territory to settle until one is ready to conquer -- or manages to flip the barbarian cities and expand over the mountains. I wish I'd paid more attention to the comment in the pre-game thread about having to culture-flip the barbs.

I moved away from the starting location to find a "better" spot without so many mountains, and wound up settling near the marble but within range of the pigs. I wish I'd rediscovered "Passive-Aggressive Hatty" before this game, though; it made clear that settling 3 spaces from the opposition made flipping much easier than 4-5 squares away. Settling in place would have made it possible to flip the southern barb city -- the one with river connection to the initial side of the mountain. As it turned out, Hamburg, up north of the wheat, managed to flip the northern barbarian city. I burned the Music GA on trying to expand Berlin's boundary enough to flip the southern city, but by 500 AD I've been over 7500 culture for a while and the first revolt hasn't happened yet. I'm building up an army in the former northern barbarian city to take over the southern, while building an army with Berlin/Hamburg to take on Ghengis. I culture-flipped the nearest mongol city and got my first revolt in the nearest American city, so the GA wasn't entirely wasted.

It's not clear whether civs near the barbarians count as 'reachable before caravels' given that somebody who didn't place either of their early cities near enough might not have made it "over the mountains" yet, but I suspect it's fair to say I expect to have to fight a war against one of them after taking the southern barb city, and am not looking forward to it.

I am in a bit of danger of not finishing, since I often don't pick up a game again if I've left it for several days, but this time I really wanted to see what other people said before continuing. Bought a new computer, though, so at least if I continue I can play the rest of the game at high resolution; the old one (bought almost exactly 5 years ago) required low res to avoid late-game crashes from "failed to allocate graphics memory."
 
They didn't build the Pyramids. I really wish they had, but they did get Stonehenge. Never seen that happen before. Then again I'd never seen a barbarian city founded so early. I had my second city snuggled up next to them trying to flip, then their culture started pushing back...
 
Goal: Something late, cuz I love the peacefull parts of the game

Ok, I'll *try* to keep it short and add some pic instead. Some thought.

Decided to scout area (cuz of epic speed), founded on marble for early hammers. Builded Worker then Barrack cuz I thought I need to attack, well... that never happened. I ended up building a lot of wonders, by 500AD capital got Stonehedge, Parthenon, GL (ofc, partly chopped), Hanging Garden and National Epic, 2nd city got the Oracle for CS + needed the culture for flip and 3rd city north got Great Lighthouse. 2 academies (cap + 2nd city). Flipped the south barb city with 2nd city @ 160BC.

The north barb city got a good deal of culture early, so... having bad experience with culture bombing on longterm borders I thought I try putting those artist inside (got 3 total by 500AD :sad:, 1 from music), that was a BIG mistake, wouldnt never do that again, @ 500ad its only 52% mine.

One fun thing is that I got the AIs "friendly" pretty early, and because I like keeping them at about the same level of techs as me, I actually got some usefull techs from them (got Morachy, IW, Monotheism + several lesser ones, Caldender and Feudalism (!) I got just a few turns ago),

From my 500AD-pics I realized I have played very passive as usual. I allways do. I have the economy to exspand - and then some, so I should do so soon. I just hate attacking AI that Im friendly with... but noble AIs dont really help as much with techs as Im used too.

As for civics, Im running HerRule + Bure + Pacifism, will go for Representalism and prob Caste soon

Question: Should I go for diplo or space?
 

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At any rate, thanks to my ambling around not knowing what to do in most of the BC years, my 500AD science is pretty pathetic. I have civil service (but no high commerce capital to make any use of it) but not much else, and my sustainable science rate is awful - 30ish bpt.

I can lend u some of my gold
 
I could have killed the guy who wrote the first message on that thread and already was speaking about flipping the barb city. :mad:
;) :lol: ;)

Well... you could have left the barb borders fogged in the start screen, then the subject never would have come up. But I'm glad you didn't... I doubt I would have even come up with the idea to culture flip it if it wasn't discussed in the pre-game thread. Nice challenge which gave new learning experiences and stimulating discussions!:goodjob:
 
GOTM39-500AD Spoiler

OK… that WAS a barb city there! And it was seperated by impassable terrain. And the barb script is apparently settle-settle-settle. I’ve never seen barb REX like this before! And they never attack me so let’em settle all they want.

In pre-game discussion, I was interested in settling the river-forested plains NW of start position. When a blue circle shows on that very spot, my decision to settle there was made. First tech AH (for pigs), first build worker. After AH (before worker) I went for BW to try to find metals for my first settler to claim. My scout quickly found Rooseveldt and Ghenghis, both very close to our start position, so figure there is going to have to be war just to get some leibensraum. Popped another scout from a hut and thus was quick to reveal the entire continent map. Pretty cold, but not that cold. Cool. Lots of health resources, plenty of strategic resources, but not so many happy resource (only Ivory, wine, and dye, if I recall correctly).

After the worker (who set out to pasture the pigs, then build mines and chop forests, basicaly), i built a couple or three warriors to grow before building/chopping settler at size 2. I saw the fish/wheat site and was planning to claim that until I saw the horses about 4 west of the capitol. That’s close to USA borders, and I don’t want to lose it to him. Also… at this point I figured out that I’m playing on Noble level and the AI start with warriors… a few chariots this early should make for quick decisive continental takeover. While hooking up the horse I build a few more warriors while I’m growing horse city and another worker. I slave out my first chariot and send it with a 4 warrior escort to Washington, defended by 1 archer and 2 warriors with now 40% culture! But… The stupid archer attacks and loses. Washington is now German (2700BC or so).

On to Ghenghis...Culture in Karakorum and archer spam means I can’t take it with chariots. GK's promoted archers are just too toogh behind 60% culture. Then Iron Working reveals that the fish/wheat site would be a much better fish/iron site, and so I make it. I do not recall why I did not get the wheat in the BFC (My 3rd city is 1W of Dynamic Spirit's Hamburger). My 3rd citythus will take ages to flip anybody. Who cares? Why bother? If I can't get them, they can't get me either. I just need some land and I'll be fine, building a Spaceship in peaceful isolation. Errr... back to the game...

My chariots meanwhile watch Ghenghis’ iron for any workers showing up. Iron seems to be a wonderful worker trap. I stole two, but since my full complement of swords weren’t ready, I asked Ghenghis what his price for peace was, just for fun. I’m almost sure he said 10 turns for 10 turns, and I decided to accept just hoping he’d send another worker to that hill. But when I accepted, suddenly Hamburg (my horse city) is turned over to Ghenghis!!! WTH???? You know, this happened to me once before on a HOF game, so I was preetty sure I’m much more careful about looking at what they ask for peace. So either it's a bug in the program/HOF mod, or in my brain :blush:.

Now my swords had to prematurely declare just to get my horse back. I do not want to see Keshiks, no sir! Hamburg was easy enough to get back since GK only had time to whip one archer, but Karakorum was too many promoted archers for my unpromoted swords to take. Lost a few before coming to that conclusion. So what began as a flying start got setback many many turns. AND Ghenghis was rexing, omg. But not to worry...By the time I had enough swords to do the job, I had cats and elephants in the queue too. Had to take 4 Mongol cities in the end to wipe him out, about 10AD or so. Along the way I had to steal another worker trying to hook up copper. I kept all conquered cities, so in a way he did my rexing for me. I set Karkorum up as my GPFarm. Washington was sci/comm city, with first academy and GLib, eventually will put Oxford there. Iron/fish city has Heroic Epic and can turn out 1 cat per turn. (Note, in Vanilla I think cats and siege in general are so overpowered that the game is broken… but that’s just my opinion). Cats for taking out Barb cities is overkill anyhow. So as I am the lone civ on my continent, all I need to do is take all the barb spam cities and I don't even need to build another settler if I don't want.

Reflections:

Besides handing my core city to Ghenghis, my other error was thinking I could get a CS sling while doing all this war and military tech pathing (and handing over core cities). Ha ha… missed it by 7 turns - so it was surely do-able, I just didn't do it:lol:. The cash sure helped my war effort though.
Ended up teching for Monarchy and am running in Hereditary rule at 500AD. GLib kind of loses some efficacy not having the Pyramids, so I have mostly cottaged everything green at this point, and specialist economy is not being used. Kind of wastes the Philo trait, but after having forwarded my stack from Mongol war to the barb cities, I now have almost the entire continent in my cultural borders. Those inaccessible barb cities still stand. Too much bother. They can’t do much with my cult borders blocking them from working useful tiles anyhow.

I have made contact with Victoria. She built the Oracle, btw. I see some purple borders in the fog. Don’t know who it is at this point, but since we have Germany and England, I would guess there are some frogeaters there… but you never know, could be Gilga perhaps. Next task might be to send an expedition west by caravel just to try to meet them, and maybe execute some barbs while I’m at it. Or I could just concentrate on founding a couple more good city sites in the interior.

I have 2 GSci’s saved… first one came while teching Philo half done, and thought it a waste to use it for bulbing Philo at that point. Now I have to wait a while until I tech CivilServ to use them to bulb Paper/Education. In Demographics screen, I am #1 in everything except life expectancy and GNP, and am #2 in GNP only because haven’t fully recovered from war and resulting mega-expansion yet. Foreign palace on western Cow/rice(or wheat?) site just kicking in. Hej… this is noble level, after all, so this is where I (a solid Monarch level player) ought to stand at 500AD. I think I lost my chance to get a really fast finish because of my brain-bug-gift of Hamburg to Ghenghis:mad:. But I’m going Space because I need the practise, so I still hope to put in a (for me) respectable finish time. Time to see if bigger is better.
 
I have made contact with Victoria. She built the Oracle, btw. I see some purple borders in the fog. Don’t know who it is at this point, but since we have Germany and England, I would guess there are some frogeaters there… but you never know, could be Gilga perhaps. Next task might be to send an expedition west by caravel just to try to meet them, and maybe execute some barbs while I’m at it. Or I could just concentrate on founding a couple more good city sites in the interior.

Can't be Gilga, its vanilla. :p
 
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