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Gotm 44 Spoiler

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Game of the Month' started by Ali Ardavan, Sep 3, 2004.

  1. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    It may be #2 but it spans almost the entire length of the world.
    Very good point which I neglected to check for. Unfortunately, the reported location is land locked. Every other 4 special site nearby (and not so nearby) is either land locked or in the ocean. There is however a 3 whale-type-special site 5 tiles away at (21,47) which has ocean access. Given how big our continent is, I am not sure ocean access is worthwhile.

    Moderator Action: Such information is definately Spolier Info. Split into new thread.
     
  2. mangor420

    mangor420 Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2003
    Messages:
    101
    hard without my huts good job d.o.m.built marco. lighthouse. and st.of liberty for wonders.won conquest in 1610 a.d.
     
  3. Duke of Marlbrough

    Duke of Marlbrough The Quiet Moderator Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2001
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    Location:
    Southern CA, USA
    I was going to make it where the continent was #1 so black clicking wouldn't be able to be used, but then I decided to be nice about it. :D
     
  4. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    I started playing OCC and have played till +1000. Here are snapshots

    Status at -1000
    City Size: 3 Government: Monarchy Gold: 94 Techs: 7 Trade routes: 0
    Structures:
    Wonders:
    Units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior

    Roman: No contact
    Japanese: No contact
    Spanish: No contact
    American: No contact
    ???: No contact
    Mongol: No contact
    --------------------------------------------
    Status at +0001
    City Size: 5 Government: Republic Gold: 179 Techs: 19 Trade routes: 0
    Structures: Marketplace, Library
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco
    Units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior, 1 Diplomat, 4 Caravan

    Roman: 4 cities, 19 tech, 26g; Allied with me, War with Japanese; Hanging Gardens
    Japanese: 4 cities, 11 tech, 371g; War with me & Romans;
    Spanish: 8 cities, 9 tech, 496g; War with me; Lighthouse
    American: 6 cities, 12 tech, 129g; Allied with me;
    English: 5 cities, 14 tech, 11g; Allied with me;
    Mongol: 7 cities, 10 tech, 219g; War with me;
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Status at +0500
    City Size: 9 Government: Republic Gold: 447 Techs: 25 Trade routes: 0
    Structures: Marketplace, Library, Aqueduct
    Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Shakespeare
    Units: 1 Settler, 1 Warrior, 1 Archer, 1 Diplomat, 5 Caravan

    Roman: 6 cities, 25 tech, 58g; Allied with me, War with Japanese & English; Hanging Gardens
    Japanese: 4 cities, 15 tech, 342g; War with me & Romans;
    Spanish: 9 cities, 24 tech, 731g; War with English; Lighthouse
    American: 7 cities, 23 tech, 79g; Allied with me; Pyramids
    English: 6 cities, 17 tech, 178g; War with me, Spanish, Romans; Great Library
    Mongol: 8 cities, 23 tech, 28g; Allied with me;
    -----------------------------------------------------
     
  5. la fayette

    la fayette King

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    Location:
    albi france
    Difficult to conquer early on that tricky flat map (thank you DoM :) ).
    I didn't build the Lighthouse because sailing was easy, but I built Magellan later on for speed's sake.
    My hope was to manage a pre-1500 conquest, but I finally failed (near miss though :p ).
     
  6. Jayne

    Jayne Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2002
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    1,070
    Location:
    Worcs UK
    That was quite a tough came for me in places. I tried a different tactic this time - ignoring a lot of improvements by only building temples in most cities. I found the terrain at the beginning of the Mongol land and between Mongol and Spanish land made it difficult to advance. I finished later than hoped, but I could have finished much earlier if I wasn't trying to keep a spotless reputation.
     
  7. grigor

    grigor Prince

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    Sep 27, 2001
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    I finished on a respectable early 4-figure date. This was a challenging game to figure out how to get literally to the ends of the earth. I ended up with a science and wonder production engine on the home continent, but I was careful to follow the advice from earlier GTOMs to send out a trireme detail to the Spanish before mopping up some of the other civs.
     
  8. golem

    golem Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2001
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    Location:
    Praha, Czech rep.
    I finished 1520 AD. :) For the first (and the last time) in my game I used black clicking. It was very helpful for finding the shortest way for triremes, to know where to go and once for finding hidden American city.
    But never again - the pleasure from this game is a bit out. :eek:
     
  9. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    That was no continent - that was a maze! The last civs I found my way into were the ones closest to home. Conquest in 560 AD. Actually, it was more of an auction than a conquest, since diplomats did most of the work.
     
  10. grigor

    grigor Prince

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    Great game, Peaster! What was your strategy to get such an early finish on this map?
     
  11. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    Thanks, Grigor.

    Because it was emperor level, I played an extreme ICS opening, favoring Settler production over all else, even leaving some cities empty for a while. As soon as I got MPE and maps, about 400BC, I rushed some units and 2 triremes for the distant Roman/English corner. I used black-clicking for the first time, to check the sea routes. Then the same for the Spanish. With lots of gold from tributes to spend on rushes/bribes, these invasions went pretty well, and were done by about 500ad.

    The nearer neighbors took longer, which is a sign of imperfect planning, I guess.
    My cities didn't multiply as fast as expected, so I didn't get the big swarm of units around 200AD I had expected. Also, I built 2 useless wonders just for the score.
    A major road helped with the Japs and A's, but the difficult Mongol terrain slowed me down a bit to 560AD.

    I wouldn't be surprised if someone can do better, especially with the American and Mongol campaigns. But I am pretty happy with the game, since my previous one (at Apolyton) ended in 1836 AD.

    I'm not used to the GOTM scoring system. For example, does it make sense to delay the end of a game a few turns to build an extra wonder?
     
  12. A+ombomb

    A+ombomb Actuary

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    That depends entirely on what year you are finishing. The earlier the finish, the better the chance that prolonging for wonders would be worth it.
     
  13. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    A+ombomb,

    I get the feeling that nobody takes the score too seriously, but I thought there might be a simple rule of thumb about how to play the ending for score. Just in case there is the slightest tiniest possibility that somebody cares, here are my thoughts -

    The formula for the score is S = sqrt(N) 50^((M-t)/M). I'm guessing M is about 500. If we hold S constant, and take derivatives w.r.t. t = turns [I noticed that you are an actuary :)], we get

    dN/dt = 2 N ln(50)/M = 8 [assuming our score, N, is about 500, too],

    which means - Keep the last civ on life support as long as you can add at least 8 points to N per turn (eg, a 20 point wonder every 2.5 turns). If we are finishing early, I guess N would be smaller and this might be "every 3-4 turns" instead, which generally agrees with your answer. The math seems OK to me, but I still wonder if this conclusion sounds plausible to GOTM veterans.
     
  14. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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  15. Peaster

    Peaster Emperor

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    Ali,

    Thanks ! That post is clear and helpful. I didn't know that the map size affected the duration of the game. BTW, in the case above (N=500 and M=500), our conclusions agree, which is always a nice thing.
     
  16. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    I submitted a few hours ago. I played OCC and landed in the early 1880s. My log is attached.

    I made two mistakes:

    Not realizing there is no tech hiding until after I have researched/acquired a few unneeded ones.

    Not hunting for settlers/engineers away from my city early enough. In the end land improvement became a bottleneck and slowed me down.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Marlos

    Marlos Christian Soldier

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    Unbelievable log, Ali. I think that I will use your log as a treatise on how to play an OCC (which I have never done). :clap:

    With respect,
    Marlos
     
  18. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Thank you Marlos for the praise. If you are interested in OCC also check logs of our legendary OCC players which are better at this than I am: ElephantU and TimTheEnchanter.
     
  19. la fayette

    la fayette King

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    ... not to forget Ming (first winner of an OCC game IIRC), Paul (the author of the "paulicy"), smash, Ribannah, solo and, of course, samson, IMO the best civ2 player of all times, who also was the first one to achieve OCC size ONE :goodjob:
     
  20. Ali Ardavan

    Ali Ardavan Mathematician Moderator Civ2 GOTM Staff

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    Thanks for the additions; I am only familiar with guys active on our GOTMs.

    What is an OCC size ONE? A single city that never grows beyond size 1? I find that hard to believe it is possible to win a game with a size 1 city.
     

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