GOTM 47 - early spoiler

Redbad & Denyd:
I like your discussion on FP's. I typically follow the path explained by Redbad, but I'm going to try Denyd's method next time. Currently I'm waiting for my first GL to form a 2nd empire in the former India lands with a FP. However, if I had built a FP in say Leipzig I could have already jumped my Capital to Delhi and had 2 empires going now.
 
So many people going for 20k, maybe I can win the 100k race while no one's looking.

I settled Berlin s, sw on the coast. The idea was to get a core of r=4 and 6. I wanted to get the cows irrigated immediately, so I built warrior->worker.

I reached Map Making in 1150 BC. It took a few turns to get a galley out, met India at 1000BC.
Qsc- 9 cities, 21 population. 6 workers, 5 warrior, 1 archer, 1 galley. 2 granary, 2 barracks, settler in 1.

When I realized that India knew almost everyone, I decided I wouldn't need the Great Lighthouse to expand, and changed an r=6 Great Lighthouse build to the Forbidden Palace. I thought corruption was pretty disappointing anyway. FP was done in 690BC.

In 350BC we learn Republic. After a short anarchy, our new government is established in 290.

Plans are to build archers to invade my neighbors and think about how to get to 100k culture in the fastest manner possible. The pyramids have been built, capturing that is a priority. Once I built the Forbidden Palace, I didn't attempt any more wonders on the home island in the AA. The lighthouse would have been nice, but overall I think the route I took gave me the best early production. I entered the Middle Ages in 110BC.

Edit: Here's a picture from 690BC if you'd like to decide for yourself.
 

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shumble said:
Just out of curiosity. These terms RCP3 and RCP5 do they mean 3 spaces between cities or 2 spaces to the next city. And then RCP5 does this mean just one space between your outer ring of cities?

Doesn't this really mess up production or are you able to make really good use of this? I'm sure there's probably a bunch of write-ups on this Placement idea, but I'm too lazy to look for them.
You can use CivAssist II or CRpSuite to see the rings on a map - makes it much easier to implement!
 
@ainwood: Only Civassist doesn't show RCP7.

@shumble: Yes, I have placed cities CxC AKA ICS, infinite city sprawl, outside of ring 3. Production? I see only grass and water. One single shield out here goes in the corruption bin anyway. I just want city centers and later Harbors and a few Coast tiles per city.
 
Più Freddo said:
Sure. Picture from 1200 BC.

Thanks for posting your map. Did Berlin need the game tile, or was the cattle enough for the settler factory? I didn't irrigate either the cattle or game :( When did you chop the forest on the game tile? Early in the game, or later???
 
IronKnight said:
Did Berlin need the game tile, or was the cattle enough for the settler factory?

At first, the Game tile gave only two fpt, but also two spt, so it was useful indeed until I had mined enough Bonus Grasslands. Then I chopped the Game tile forest and at once had five fpt in Berlin working borth Cattle and Game. I then irrigated the Game (finished in 1525 BC) and shared the tile 50/50 with Frankfurt. The settler factory in Berlin was running until I established Republic, at which time the island was very crowded with cities. The last settler from the factory founded New Berlin.

IronKnight said:
When did you chop the forest on the game tile? Early in the game, or later?

Fairly early. In 1830 BC ten shields were harvested and invested in a settler build. Look in my spoiler.

And don't worry, I play worse and worse as the game goes on.
 
PtW, predator.

The ancient history of Germany is shrouded in darkness, but it is clear that its first rulers belonged to the zyxy clan. Little is known about them, perhaps because they were not very successful. After a rocky start the zyxy's led the German people to some lush meadows where Berlin was founded - just to the southwest of that rocky start, in fact. In those days the Germans did not know how to write and the little knowledge we have stems from fragments of pottery, dating back to about 3300BC. The images painted on German earthenware indicate that they were diligent farmers, skilled in the arts of irrigation and cattle-herding, in particular in combination. The ancient granary of Berlin dates back to 2750BC.
A few hundred years later the Germans found the town of Leipzig, where all activity was directed towards the construction of a colossal statue of the contemporary ruler, later known as zyxy the Fool. Around this time the decorations on German pottery become more abstract, indicating the development of a symbol language.

As time passes more and more German settlements appear, encroaching on the traditional lands of neighboring tribes. Conflicts with these barbarians prove fatal to the zyxy clan, and the last ruler - zyxy the Weak - is ousted around 1500BC after several working parties have been killed and even Berlin has been sacked by barbarians riding strangely shaped cattle.
Power is grabbed by the Bismarck family, ruling to this present day. Originally in charge of the famous Axeswinger Barracks in Hamburg, the Bismarcks employ well-trained Axeswingers to quickly defeat the barbarian tribes. The standing army is greatly increased in size under the first Bismarck, Otto Stronghand, as proved by the first written records that appear around this time.
Finding that Germany is enclosed by water on all sides, the Bismarcks pour the entire state revenue into funding experiments with flotation devices. Their efforts prove successful in 1125BC, when the German navy is born. Shortly after, more advanced tribes are met, and the Germans trade their knowledge of the land and sea for the various arts of killing (and a few other arts), skillfully using an opportunity to play middleman. Greatly disappointed that the Metal and the Beast required to practice these arts are nowhere to be found in Germany, Otto Ironfist - that most famous of all Bismarcks - orders the construction of a galley fleet to explore and find these resources overseas. To raise the spirits of the sailors the unfinished statue of zyxy the Fool was adapted to have a giant fire on top, and completed in 825BC.
Stories that the fruitless searches for Metal and Beast led German thinkers to daydream about a Metal Beast are of course purely mythological. Instead, with the attention of the Bismarcks diverted to exploration, they started to ponder a new form of government. Progress was slow as there was of course no state funding for such rebellious projects, and small bands of sages had to work in secret on some remote island.

The German empire in 1000BC:
 

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Predator [ptw], goal not certain yet

I settled Berlin 1S,1SW of the starting position to get instant access to the cow. Neither 4-turn settler factory nor granaries were planned for, this being a small world after all. I did irrigate the cow early and chopped/irrigated the deer.

I could not imagine that once again we would be stuck alone on an island so I started researching Ceremonial burial at 0%. After about 10-15 turns I changed to Alphabet on max. There are no other scientific civs, so I can affored trading myself to the Middle Ages with Literature and Republic.

I built lots of roads but few mines. Commerce and food are both higher priority. Berlin built settlers, using the cow and unmined BG:s, finishing each around size 3.5. Leipzig shared the cow, although it did not use it until it was size 5, when it needed to speed up Colossus (1025 BC) and Berlin had changed to prebuilding a library.

In 1000 BC my first galley met India. I had learned Map Making about 6-7 turns earlier, so the timing was poor. But I'm pretty happy with my towns at distance 3 and 5, sacrificing some BGs.

India is advanced and knows 3 more civs.

Focus is on research, because there is little point in building units. But I wish I had started the Great Lighthouse. It will take much longer now to acquire horses or iron. I am a bit reluctant to going for domination because of the endless galley chains.

Entered MA in 450 BC. Free tech is Feudalism. I gift it to France and Aztecs.

QSC

10 towns
20 citizens
1 barracks (accidental)
Colossus
6 workers
4 warriors
1 galley
1 contact
 
ts64 GOTM47 open PTW1.27f

I send worker W to bring water to the cow and settler SW. Settle Berlin and start a warrior, research pottery at max. After the warrior I build a second worker then start barracks as prebuild for granary. Next research is alphabet at max. Berlin builds it's granary 2750BC. To get the pop up, I build a second warrior before Berlin start on settler's. The first settler is helped by a chop of the game forest, after that the factory is up and running. The scouting warrior has scouted almost our whole starting island so after some thinking I decide to use RCP4 and to cram the cities in at that distance. I decide that I want the lighthouse for this map and start a prebuild for it, it is finished 750BC.

At 1000BC I have

11 towns, 28 pop
12 workers
2 settlers
9 reg warriors
2 galleys
1 granary and 1 harbor

Techs: WC, BW, Pottery, Alphabet, Writing, MM, Literature

Contact with India, France and Arabia


Picture of starting island 1000BC



Next I research Philosophy, Col, Republic

925BC Philosophy, trade for Masonry, TW, CB, IW and Mystiscism
750BC CoL, trade for HBR and Polyteism
510BC I meet Celts who knows Mathematics, I trade for that
490BC Republic

I revolt via TBP and get 4 turn anarchy, I take that and dont reroll.

370BC Currency
330BC Aztecs discovers construction so I trade for that and enter MA with monotheism as free tech.

The AI-civs have not been very good at exploring, Celts and Aztecs still only knows me.
Next goal will be to get some miltary and get some more land and some resources and more luxeries.
 
Redbad said:
@shumble but i'm not to lazy ;) RCP

Thanks. I read the link so next time I play, I will have to put some thought into where I put my cities to ensure that I get the correct placement. I thought I was doing RCP placement, but now I'm not so sure.
 
Here's a pic from the RCP discussion:



It comes down to that diagonally distances increase by 1 for each tile and horizontally/vertically distances increase by 1,5 for each tile. In the above picture distances x,5 are rounded down to x, as they have equal corruption.

Hope this helps for setting up RCP
 
That picture really does a great job of explaining it. I was setting up a lot of my cities on the horizontal/vertical lines thinking that I was only 3 spaces away, but now that I see your diagram they were really 4 spaces away which explains why my corruption for my second outer ring was very bad. It was in actuality probably a 3rd or 4th outer ring.

The only question I have is that everybody talks about RCP3. It looks like if you do this, your cities are going to be sharing many of the same tiles all the time. How does this help your cities to grow and expand when cities are not able to take advantage of squares around their cities. I could understand better an RCP4 ring where at least each city gets its 9 inner ring of tiles to itself and shares the remaining 12 tiles with other cities.
 
shumble said:
The only question I have is that everybody talks about RCP3. It looks like if you do this, your cities are going to be sharing many of the same tiles all the time. How does this help your cities to grow and expand when cities are not able to take advantage of squares around their cities. I could understand better an RCP4 ring where at least each city gets its 9 inner ring of tiles to itself and shares the remaining 12 tiles with other cities.
But how does sharing tiles become a disadvantage? If no towns shared any tiles, each town would have to grow to size 20 before your core is using its full potential. As you know, this is only possible after Sanitation, and it takes a long time. It is often desirable to make your core effective even before aqueducts!

The precise reason why I used RCP3 and 5 in this game was that if I had picked RCP4, I would only have been able to fit in a small number of towns in the second ring, thus losing access to many coastal tiles.
 
Goal: Diplomatic or space.

Cities:

3950 BC: Berlin SW of Mountain
2550 BC: Leipzig.
2310 BC: Hamburg.
2070 BC: Konigsberg.
1725 BC: Frankfurt.
1500 BC: Munich.
1400 BC: Heidelburg.
1300 BC: Nuremburg.
1150 BC: Cologne.
1050 BC: Hanover.
950 BC: Bremen.
250 BC: Stuttgart.

Techs:

3250 BC: Pottery.
2230 BC: Alphabet.
1525 BC: Writing.
1225 BC: Philosophy. (no freebie)
800 BC: Mapmaking.
710 BC: Ceremonial Burial.
650 BC: Mysticism. (by trade)
590 BC: The Wheel. (by trade)
570 BC: Code of Laws.
550 BC: IW, HBR and Masonry. (by trade)
310 BC: Literature
270 BC: Mathematics and Polytheism. (by trade)
50 BC: Republic
250 AD: Consruction and Monarchy. (by trade)

Other milestones:

2230 BC: Spices connected.
650 BC: Contact with Indians.
590 BC: Contact with Arabs.
550 BC: Contact with Aztecs and France.
150 BC: Forbidden Palace.
50 AD: War declared... will be covered in 2nd spoiler.
50 AD: Embassy with Arabs.
250 AD: Enter MA. (Feudalism free tech)

---

QSC results:
10 towns, 17 population
7 workers
1 settler
12 archers (7 veteran), 2 warriors (both veteran)
2 barracks
0 contacts

---

Units at end of AA:

38 Archers (17 veterans)
12 Spearmen (6 veterans)
2 Warriors (veterans)
12 Galleys
16 Workers

Obviously, lack of Iron and Horses => desperate, angry Germans ready to annihilate a nearby owner of said resources...
 
Here is my little world at 1000 BC. I put as many cities as I could at RCP=4.
I had no trouble with production. 2 cities even cranked out wonders.
 

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This is a case in point. With Randy's location of Berlin, RCP3 would not do any good. RCP4 looks exactly right. He has three more locations for RCP6 to fill, all on the coast. I settled Berlin south of Randy, so things would not have looked good for me in the southeast with RCP4.

I have a small advantage over Randy in the northwest, being able to build two more towns at RCP5, although neither of these towns got instant access to the fish.

I consider Randy's Hannover a mistake, being at RCP7 when it could have been RCP6 1SE without blocking another site.
 
shumble said:
The only question I have is that everybody talks about RCP3. It looks like if you do this, your cities are going to be sharing many of the same tiles all the time. How does this help your cities to grow and expand when cities are not able to take advantage of squares around their cities. I could understand better an RCP4 ring where at least each city gets its 9 inner ring of tiles to itself and shares the remaining 12 tiles with other cities.

Theoretically it is not a big difference. A full RCP3 will have 8 cities and eventually will have 80 workable tiles, giving 80 / (8 + 1) = 8,9 workable tiles per city. A full RCP4 will have 12 cities and eventually will have 124 workable tiles, giving 124 / (12 + 1) = 9,5 workable tiles per city.

In this theoratical situation you need to decide between the RCP4 and RCP3 advantages.
RCP4
more cities in the ring
more tiles per city
RCP3
lower distance corruption
faster (less settler moves, less roads to connect, better tile-sharing)

In practice however, as can be seen in Randy's pic, decision depend on:
shape of the land
location of mountains, coast, rivers and bg's
presence and proximity of other civ's
desired VC

@Genghis069
No philo-freebies in GOTM
 
[Technical]
It should be noted that towns on the same ring all have the same rank corruption, but for the distance component of the total corruption there's a difference between distances x and x.5. Total corruption is the sum of rank corruption and distance corruption. So even if all your towns are at say RCP4, those that are at distance 4.5 will actually have slightly higher corruption than the ones at distance 4, even though the difference will not be very dramatic.
[/Technical]
 
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