GOTM 47 Second Spoiler - entering the Industrial age

[ainwood]

GOTM 47 Second Spoiler

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have reached the industrial age.
You must have the full world map, and you must have contact with all civilizations (or their remains).

How did you fare through the middle ages? Did you look to expand your empire? How did you cope with the lack of resources? Or were you pursuing a more peaceful victory?

 

[Redbad]

open, military solution.

We enter the MA in 310BC on our way to MT.

Wonder building
Building the GLight posed no problem at all. After that Köningsberg build a library and then started on the Glib. However the AI researched Literature quite early themselves. After the Pyramids were build some cascaded towards the GLib. One of them being Paris. Paris was a city of reasonable size and surroundings, so in 190BC I investigated the city. By that time Köningsberg had another 9 turns to go on the GLib. Paris needed only 6.

What to do. By foresting some tiles, letting Köningsberg run on food deficit, I could knock off 1 turn. There’s no substitute for GLib for a scientific wonder before MT. If I let the French build it and rely on capturing it, there would be two options: capturing it after building Leo’s would mean I have to build another wonder, or capturing it before building Leo’s but then I haven’t cavalry or even knights available. But … there’s a third option.

At that time all the other civs were still despotic. And the French are the only ones not being religious. So I sold republic to all of them and the French drew a 5 turn anarchy. In 90BC the French became a republic and I took another look at Paris: Köningsberg 3 turns and Paris still 6 turns.

30BC GLib build. In 320 Bremen finishes the FP. And in 530 Koningsberg build Leo’s: GA

War
In 590 MT is researched and the libraries are sold.
And then in :
610 war against India
660 war against France
690 MGL1 (Sun Tzu)
740 war against Aztecs
770 India dead, France dead and MGL2 (army)
790 MGL3 (Heroic)
800 war against Celts
810 war against Arabia
840 MGL4 (army)
880 Aztecs dead
900 Celts dead
950 Arabia dead
Jason 9252, Firaxis 5538.

The conquest war went fast enough, but I’m not really satisfied with the research speed towards MT. I’ve seen enough games where in 590AD the whole MA is researched. So that aspect needs further improvement.

It was a fun game though and these military goals take so much less time.

 

[Megalou]

Redbad, Nice trick with the French anarchy!

Predator , science effort (Diplomatic)

310 AD - Preparing to attack India (but they have chivalry.) Sending 8 longbowmen, 2 spearmen, 1 settler, 1 catapult.

320 - Gift and retake New Leipzig and New Berlin. Land the troops.

370 - Hurried Copernicus' Observatory in Leipzig. 8 longbowmen outside Delhi.

380 - Delhi taken (Great Wall)

490 - Entered the Industrial Age. Free Nationalism. Hurried a harbour & lowered luxury to 10%. We will now have 3 luxes and be able to trade with Aztecs and France. India was defeated by a total of 10 brave longbowmen and some protectors. I only saw one elephant, who didn't get a chance to attack.

Newton's University and hopefully a Golden age are due in about 7 turns.

Traded techs in MA:
Monotheism
Gunpowder
Astronomy
Metallurgy
Navigation
Music Theory
thanks to agressive gifting.
But still no second core. India has two towns left where I might get a second GL. It is essential.

Sorry about the elliptical report.

 

[tR1cKy]

Vanilla, predator class. Going for 20k in Berlin.

This log will be quite scarce. After writing the report, i was about to save and the PC crashed. My turn was also lost and i had to reload the autosave. Consider that only 3 days ago i was bragging somewhere that my windoze 98 installation has lasted for over a year without showing a single BSOD, except for a few episodes that turned out to be caused by a defective memory stick. Next time i'd better stay silent.

Link to the ancient ages spoiler

Middle ages spoiler (110AD-1110AD): Germany goes Visigothic

We enter the Middle Ages in anarchy. Republic is established in 110AD. We research Monarchy, trade it with Feudalism, then turn Berlin into Hanging Gardens that is complete shortly after. India builds the Great Library in Delhi. Too bad for them, we're gonna capture it.

Since India is already dogpiled by all the other civs, they shouldn't offer any significant resistance. War is declared, then we destroy a city on the coast and found our beachhead in the very same spot. Conquest goes on slowly, with a significant portion of our budget devoted to research and our main productive city busy building wonders, we cannot pump up the military as in a regular war game.

Anyway, a good half of the Indian territory is seized. Delhi is captured, and 2 importand wonders (Great Library and Pyramids) are owned. Two extra luxuries (wines and gems) are also secured. The 4th luxury (dyes) is secured shortly after: a city is founded on a open spot in which a destroyed indian city once was located. We beat the Arabs for only 1 turn!!!

Berlin completes the HG, then builds a cathedral, a marketplace, then goes for Sistine. Meanwhile, the Arabs complete Sun Tzu, and for the wonder cascade effect everyone turns to Sistine. We have to destroy an aztec city to avoid being beaten on Sistine, but finally the wonder is built. For the same reason as before, Paris completes Leo's in the very same turn. Too bad for them, we need that wonder to trigger a golden age.

A few techs until Education are obtained with the GL. Then, most of them are self-researched, only Invention, Chemistry and Navigation are obtained via trade deals or pointy stick. But it's ok, i need the techno lead to sell techs for luxuries and gpt, and to have the AS waste shields when i'm the 1st to complete a wonder.

After Sistine, Berlin builds a university, then we start Bach's. The 2nd Indian war is declared, and the remnants of India are quickly assimilated. I also get a leader (the only one so far!). We turn production in Berlin to Copernicus, complete the wonder and immediately after rush Bach's with the leader.

Research goes to the path for Banking -> Democracy -> Free Artistry. It doesn't matter if it will delay the industrial age, what really counts is to obtain Shake's ASAP. That wonder is an absolute must for a cultural victory. Meanwhile, we start purging the world from that sorry excuse of a civilization that is France. It's important to own Paris before Shake's is complete, and the task is fulfilled. Paris falls in 960AD. The rest of the french mainland is captured in few turns. The 5th luxury (ivory) is also secured, and now we depend from the coutries abroad only for furs.

With Shake's complete, our golden age finally starts. Berlin starts Newton's. Peace is signed with France (grabbing a city). The rest of their territory will be assimilated soon, but in the meantime we need our troops stationed into the conquered cities to quell resistance, reduce the indigenous population and avoid cultural flips. Despite a sheer amount of elite wins (i counted at least 20), no further leader is generated. I'm definitely not lucky with leaders in GotM games

With the research of Magnetism, the Industrial Age is reached in 1110AD. The free tech is Medicine, not useless at all since i need it for the rush to Scientific Method, but having Steam Power immediately available would have been better. Research is set to Steam, of course. The production bonus of railroad is more important than having cavalries and riflemen.

At the dawn of the Industrial, we have a substantial tech lead over the competitors. Berlin is at 4391 culture points and 61 cpt. Here's a shot of our magnificent capital:



Too bad in this game Shake's doesn't allow a city to grow past size 12


Berlin's cultural progress

Ancient ages:

3900BC: Palace;
1425BC: Colossus;
670BC: Great Lighthouse;
610BC: Library;
510BC: Temple;
330BC: Colosseum;

Middle ages:

150AD: Hanging Gardens;
250AD: Cathedral;
600AD: Sistine chapel;
620AD: University;
820AD: Copernicus' observatory;
830AD: Bach's cathedral;
1030AD: Shakespeare's theather;

 

[Nata]

PTW Open, 20K.

AA spoiler

170AD - Get the missing AA Techs, Republic and enter MA via Glib. Draw Monotheism.
290AD - we are a Republic.
300AD - Colosseum, cash-rushed. Why not cathedral? I don't remember, probably not enough cash and in a hurry to start HG.

470Ad - 1 turn till HG and somebody builds it.
That was caused by my AA debacle: delaying Pyramids because I didn't know Masonry in time, loosing Pyramids by 3 turns, wasting 87 shields switching to GLH, delaying Glib and voila - loosing on HG. On the other hand, 1 turn less of anarchy (I got 7) would have done it.

Ok, I switch to SunTsu, then to Leo. I think I can even build Leo as it would give us GA, and I can get cheap Cavs with it, and those are great for GL-hunting.

510AD - Phew! Aztecs plop a town on our shore. They dowed us many years ago. And - ta-da - my 1st Elite fight with them gives a GL!
620AD - Finish Leo, start GA.
630AD - Hurry Sistine with GL.
640AD - Cathedral, cash-rushed
650Ad - Start Sun Tsu as prebuild, research to Education.
690Ad - Sun Tsu is built by someone else, Education researched but nothing beyound so build expensive University.
700AD - University.
Start Marketplace prebuild for Bach, research Music Theory in 4 turns, Market in 5.

780AD - Building Bach. Send 3 galleys with 4 Elite Archers, 1 elite warrior and v.Spearman to take outlying Aztec city. City is taken, the last attack with Elite Warrior against red-lined Archer generates GL!
Looks like fortunes are turning for me after being really nasty in AA. Almost no military, 2 puny skirmishes with laughable troops (other guys are sporting Muskets and some even Cavs and the best I've got are Elite archers), and I net 2 GLs!

In other news: traded Horses from India for Education, building Horsemen for Cav upgrades.

850AD - Swith Bach to Copernicus, build Copernicus - with no loss of shields. Now can hurry Bach with a Leader.
860AD - Hurry Bach with GL.
880AD - Physics researched, trade it for metallurgy and MT. Can upgrade to Cavs now. Start Navigation to get Magellan prebuild, prebuilding with Market meanwhile.
950AD - Get Navigation, switch Market to Magellan. Aztecs demand Physics, I tell them go to hell, they dow. I ally France and gift my Aztecs beachhead city to her.

990AD - Research ToG. Switch Magellan to Newton. Trade to India for Banking and to Kelts for Magnetism. Enter IA! Get Steam Power!
The rest is for another spoiler. I only can tell now that Aztecs continued to be a sport and gave me more GLs for a minimal trouble.

No save again - my closest happens to be in 1210AD, in IA. In that year, for comparison's sake, Berlin had 6620cp, doing 83cpt.

 

[King Of America]

Redbad -- Genius, sheer genius!

 

[tR1cKy]

Hey Nata, it seems that i'm having some worthy competition. Despite you screwed up with Pyramids and HG, you're slightly ahead of me. Nice catch-up!

 

[IronKnight]

At that time all the other civs were still despotic. And the French are the only ones not being religious. So I sold republic to all of them and the French drew a 5 turn anarchy. In 90BC the French became a republic and I took another look at Paris: Köningsberg 3 turns and Paris still 6 turns.

WOW Great Thinking!
I wish I thought of those things!!!

 

[Jove]

The Middle Ages (110BC-920AD)

The General Plan
My main idea for this 100K attempt was simple: Get a large number of cities as quickly as possible, up to the limit if convenient, but a lot as fast as possible in any case. I just believe a large number of cities is the biggest priority and really the whole point of a 100k game.

My style has always been to eyeball everything and just go for it. It’s landed me solidly in 2nd place plenty of times, so I did a little calculation this time to get a feel for the big picture.

How many cities can I fit on this map? I used other games to guess what would work on a small map. Once I got the world map I could have counted out a city placement scheme tile by tile, but c’mon, this isn’t life or death. DaveMcW’s archipelago 100k cotm14 victory ended with something like 178 cities. This is a small map, but the main continent was so stretched out it looked like a standard map squeezed into a small frame to me. So I guessed 150 cities might be possible.

So, 100,000 culture, what’s that? I simplified my estimation to be 150 cities * 12 culture per city= 1800 culture per turn. That ought to do it. So how many shields? Library (40sh-3c), University (100sh-4c), Temple(60sh-2c) and a Cathedral(160sh-3c), 360 shields * 150 cities= 54,0000 shields

Call it 50k. At 4g per shield, that’s 200,000 gold. I anticipate a lot of drafting and disbanding. Infantry yield 22 shields, or 88 gold, do the math, it’d take 2272 spare citizens to achieve it solely that way. Plus 300 for the cities. 150 worker factories would have to produce ~15 workers apiece… So we’d better build a lot of workers for food, and research fast to Steam Power for more food. Of course I’ll hand build and buy what I can, but I don’t anticipate having a huge economy on this map.

Wars and Expansion
There was a lot of unclaimed land to the west, being slowly settled by the French, Indians, and Arabs. But India was a plum target, and looked on schedule to get the Great Library. I think its more efficient to just claim land rather than fight for it, so I concentrated on pumping out settlers and galleys. The first settlers landed in the French Indies at 10AD via suicide galley chain, right as my home island was filling up. By 340 I had 15 cities in that area. I continued to squeeze them in, ICS style.
In the meantime I’d already been accruing an army of archers to ship to India. I didn’t want to repeat the mistake of my last 100k attempt, attacking with too few troops and ending up with really no army and ruining my game, so I decided on a force of 20 archers before I attacked. I’d be able to take the capitol, and then quickly conquer the rest with what was left. I was a little too slow, or maybe should have made do with less. Right as I was reaching 20, India built the Great Wall, and then Delhi grew to size 7. Fearing massive casualties, I put off the attack until I could use Longbows.
But it wasn’t so bad. I still had land to claim and was stockpiling settlers. By 400 I had plenty of Longbows. I had an RoP with everyone, which they never demanded I renew, so the deals just went on and on until this turn when I renewed them myself. DoW India, and, even with my rep utterly blasted, France agreed to ally with me for Invention. Now, the real priority was to capture the Pyramids in Paris, but the Great Library in Delhi would be handy too, and it looked easier to get at France through India anyway. Delhi fell with the loss of only 1 longbow. The Great Library gave us Chivalry, Monarchy and Education for free. Plus a barracks in Delhi, thanks Ghandi!
My treachery didn’t stop there. The Longbows just wiped out India, though I didn’t quite kill them off (I chose faster science without the war weariness), while France wasted troops on India’s eastern hill towns. In 480 I made peace and began moving troops to RoP abuse Joan. I’d already settled most of the Indian land I’d cleared. Paris had pikemen, and an unconnected saltpeter tile being worked right outside the capitol. Would that road get finished before I was ready, leaving me to fight Musketeers?!? The road finished the very turn I was ready to attack. No musketeers. Paris, the Hanging Gardens, and the Pyramids were mine in 560, plus instant saltpeter. Next stops: Rheims and the Great Lighthouse, then Marseilles for Sun Tzu’s Art of War. My wrecking ball of Longbows made short work of France, in and no time I had settled that land as well. With the Lighthouse, I was able to ship in all the lux I wanted, allowing me to fight on without being troubled by war weariness.
Looking back, it’s too bad I had to wait for longbows to attack India. All those archers sitting around, plus the galley support, lots on en route settlers and gobs of workers pushed my unit support up to almost 70 at one point, which was tough on my science rate. OTOH, once I had my 20 archers, I hardly had to build any more military the rest of the game, very efficient for my focus on fast-growing cities.
It wasn’t until 750 that I got my first leader. He rushed Copernicus’ in our FP city, starting our GA. I’d have taken a Golden Age sooner if I had the chance, but this was almost perfect timing really. Our lousy science rate suddenly jumped to 4 turn research. We had Physics and ToG in short order. Another leader in 850 gave us Newton’s in our FP city, boosting science again. Nice to not have to use a rare leader on the FP or Palace jump.
We entered the IA in 920, getting Steam Power as the freebie. Nice! Only making about 300cpt at this point, but researching Nationalism while still in our GA is a good sign. We have about 90 cities with 370 or so citizens at this point. I hope it’s good enough!

Comparison
DaveMcW hit the IA at 170AD (!) in his archipelago COTM14 100k game, but that was in conquests with the slingshot and productive specialists, plus a standard map with less corruption. Still, it gives me pause. Klarius hit the IA at 530AD in his GOTM39 gold-medal 100k game. Again, on a standard map, with lots of room for core cities on that one. The most comparable game to this one is probably GOTM38, an isolated start standard continents game that Redbad won. Couldn’t find an IA date for him on that one, but he finished in 1600. It looks like I can match that, small map or not, and consider it good. I still think I’ll need faster science if this game doesn’t do it.

 

[Niklas]

predator, 20k

AA spoiler

Entered the MA in 450 BC, get engineering as free tech. We are still a despotism, researching republic.

In 250 BC I research Republic and revolt for a nice 3 turn anarchy. At the same time it's time to get off the island, so DoW India and sign in everyone.

Here's an interesting trick I've never used before: up until now I'd been in a phony war with the Aztecs, but since I was the offender I got no war happiness from it. The Aztecs had been at war with everyone for a long time, but had recently signed peace with everyone except India. I figured it was only a matter of time, so when I went to war with India, I signed peace with Aztecs and included an MA vs India in the peace deal. Sure enough, the Aztecs and India signed a peace deal a few turns later, breaking our peace deal and I get the war happiness I wanted.

I captured all of India's main towns except two, including Delhi with the Pyramids. Peace was signed in 210 AD, by then I had his iron, his horses, his wines and some of his gems. Only downside is the absence of a GL.

Meanwhile, Leipzig has been busy and in 260 AD built the Hanging Gardens. Due to lousy planning I was a bit short on cash at this point, so a Cathedral was built in 290 AD, followed by University in 310 AD. Next goal was the Sistine Chapel.

In 440 AD my peace deal with India ran out, and I had no wish to extend it. I quickly took most of Gandhi's remaining towns, and in 590 AD when capturing the last town that I could easily reach, my first GL! Peace with India for two of his three remaining towns, he will continue as an OCC for the rest of his life.

Back to Leipzig, Sistine was finished in 630 AD. I quickly rushed a Colosseum in 640 AD, followed by a leader rush of Leo's in 650 AD, starting my GA.
The problem at this point was that everyone and his grand mother was busy building wonders. Most were of no consequence, but I realized that Entremont would be a serious contender for either Bach's or Copernicus. Only one thing to do.

DoW Celts in 670 AD, quickly taking their iron town and pillaging their salpeter. Lots of opportunities for leader fishing after that, but first Entremont must burn.

On the research front I kept good speed, perhaps too good considering my lack of cash at certain times. I did a few stupid things, like researching Music Theory which I would have gotten from the French a turn later, same story for Metallurgy. Anyway, I reached the IA in 750 AD, drawing Steam Power as free tech!

Tech progression:
450 BC: Engineering (free)
250 BC: Republic
50 BC: Monarchy (GLib)
10 BC: Monotheism
110 AD: Feudalism (GLib)
150 AD: Theology
300 AD: Education
400 AD: Astronomy
450 AD: Banking
480 AD: Chivalry (Arabia)
480 AD: Gunpowder (France)
540 AD: Chemistry
590 AD: Physics
630 AD: Music Theory
680 AD: Theory of Gravity
720 AD: Magnetism
750 AD: Metallurgy (France) => IA
750 AD: Steam Power (free)

Leipzig progression:
--------------------------
3050 BC: Founded
1575 BC: Colossus
1425 BC: Temple
710 BC: Great Lighthouse
90 BC: Great Library
70 BC: Library
--------------------------
260 AD: Hanging Gardens
290 AD: Cathedral
310 AD: University
630 AD: Sistine Chapel
640 AD: Colosseum
650 AD: Leonardo's Workshop (leader) => GA!

In 750 AD I have 2568 culture and 44cpt. 4 turns left on Copernicus.

 

[Niklas]

@Nata: Our 20k progress is very much alike, with two differences. One is that you have a palace, and a much earlier temple. Second is that you got the Oracle a lot earlier than I got the Gardens. But at 750 AD it seems we have the same cpt except for your palace. Let's see if I can catch up some of your lead with my slightly faster research, and an FP.

 

[Redbad]

And you both don't like Shake's

 

[Nata]

And you both don't like Shake's

I adore Shake's!
I built it in IA though, somewhere in 12th century. I was afraid to run out of builds in case I went for PP/Democrasy/FA research, I had to go for the quickest tech path available to not let my capital go idle. There was the problem with my game all along: the research wasn't quick enough, and no 2nd core.
So by the time I was busy building Newton AI researched Democracy and then I went for FA, and build Shake's after Newton.

 

[ts64]

ts64 GOTM47 open PTW1.27f

Since my plan is to conquer the world and I like cavs, I beeline to MT and stop research after this. I have Berlin on settler production until 190BC, all
towns that are not in the first ring are building workers that I join to my eight first ring citys when their tiles are improved and I have aqueducts where needed.

Tech progress:
330BC Monotheism free
210BC Engineering
130BC Feudalism
10AD Invention
130AD Gunpowder
230AD Chemistry
310AD Metallurgy
400AD Military tradition

The lack of resources I solved at first peacefully by settling on a free sorce of horses at the borders of Aztecs, India, Arabs and France in 230BC and on a two tile island with an iron source 10AD. I didn't build a harbor on the iron Island since that could mess up a my planned upgrade horse - cavalry, using disconnect of the salpeter to build horses.

Paris built The Great Library 90BC and India cascaded and built The Great Wall in Lahore the same year. I had started to build horses for upgrade and longbowmen for the first strike to capture the Indian town of Karachi that were built on a salpeter source. I had a trade going with the Indians that ended 400AD and since I didn't want to break my reputation yet, I declared war that year and landed my invason force of longbows and a couple of spears.

To protect my horse town I allied the Aztecs against the Indians and that worked perfectly, the horse town were only attacked once, the rest of the indian troops in the area were busy fighting aztec troops. I managed to capture Karachi on the first try and were lucky to not destroy it's harbour. I upgraded some horses to cavs that came in the second wave. When I had this landed I disconnected the salpeter by a special feature - it flipped. Later I used a more stable method, I rushed a harbor in Madras and sold the harbor in Karachi. I then pillaged all roads but one to Karachi, on this tile I stationed a worker crew and a pillager.

After the flip I immediately retook it and Madras, shipped over more cavs and took the evil great wall town next, after that I continued east.

I was building Leonardos in Berlin with finish date of 520AD, if the war went really well I hoped to capture the Library in Paris before this was finished
to trigger golden age, this failed. But to my luck Barbarossa appeared 580AD and Sun Tzu's were not yet built, I investigated the citys that were building it and saw that I had plenty of time to capture Paris and rush Sun Tzu's in my now heavy defended horse town. I captured Paris 590AD and rushed Sun Tzu's the same year and so started golden age.

600AD France were eliminated and India were down to one town on the tip of Aztec land, I had hoped that the Aztecs would take care of that for me but they broke the alliance prematurely. They will pay for this. I moved my troops towards Aztec's border and demanded some gold and WM, I got it. Now I demanded the Indian town they had captured, but they refused. After a few demands they went furios, so I demanded that they should remove their troops that where fortified outside my Sun-Tzu town and they declared.

I had them eliminated 770AD, India's last town were captured 720AD. In this war i got two more leaders, the first were used to rush Forbidden palace in Paris 650AD, the second I used for Sistines in an aztec town that could use some border expansion.

Now time for something I normally don't use, to eliminate the two remaining civs - ROP rape. I had signed ROP with arabs and celts and started to position cavs that were not needed against the aztec's in stategic positions.

780AD I had troops ready for arabs, I declared and took all but a jungle town and two other towns. Those were captured 800AD.

810AD I investigated all eleven celtic towns, they have two reg spears in most of thier towns and only one is on a hill. I position my 35 cavs strategicly, declare and manage to capture all of their towns. It was quite well timed since I am six tiles from domination so I don't need to disband any citys.

820AD Conquest victory.


A fun game in the beginning and the end, but the middle part was a bit boring with only research.

 

[Niklas]

And you both don't like Shake's

Gotta agree with Nata, I really love Shake's. However, I have two very strong reasons not to go after it.
First, my situation is quite the opposite of Nata's. I have far too many things to build already, and so does the AIs. So I need to build the slightly lower culture wonders first, in order to get them at all.
Second, getting Shake's some 30 turns earlier at the expense of say Copernicus would give me an extra 120 culture (assuming I would get Copernicus at all). But going to Steam and Industrialization means an I effectively triple my building capacity a lot earlier, speeding up all wonders by a lot of turns (which again allows me to get them at all) which in the end gives me more than those 120 culture. I will certainly beeline for FA after Industrialization.

 

[IronKnight]

Reading other posts, I realize my military conquests are too slow! I think I'm waiting too long to go to war, trying to build up the military first. I use offensive units, defensive units & artillery together. How much military do you build up before declaring war? When do you decide to start a 2nd war with another CIV? Where do you strike first?

I usually wait until I have 8+ offensive units, 4+ defensive units & a handful of artillery. Typically I strike only 1 CIV at a time. I start on the common borders and them move inward. I generally target the cities with the strategic resources. That way I can cripple them quicker. I find that once you take the capital, they basically collapse after that. The problem is that quite a few units can be lost in that attack.

Does anybody have a recommendation on a utility which would calculate probable defenders? So I go after a size 5 town, what would be the expected number of defensive units.

 

[Megalou]

I usually wait until I have 8+ offensive units, 4+ defensive units & a handful of artillery.

Why so many defensive units? I suggest using mountains and hills for defense instead. Never have more than one defensive unit per stack. Even if the stack is split up, it's often easy to avoid counterattacks - if you capture a town, the AI will normally not reach it with many attackers because they build their towns so far apart. Target resources, especially salpeter. Without cavalry, the AI will have little muscle.

"Handful of artillery" also sounds way too much to me, almost half of the number of attackers. Artillery will never defeat an enemy, and they are not really cheaper than an attacker. I surprised myself by building one catapult last time I went on the war path. I thought it was OK as a boost for defense - but why build more than one when there are rarely more than one AI attack per turn? Half of the time I don't even know what to do with those slow catapults. They are in fact slower even than attack units with movement one, because those can attack on their third step (if on a road), while the cats have to stop after 2 steps if they want to attack.

I would only build a large number of artillery units if the AI defensive unit is superior, eg infantry v/s my own cavalry.

Truth to tell, are you in fact a very sympathetic leader who weeps at the sight of seeing your attack units suffer defeat once in a while?

 

[Niklas]

I would argue quite differently than Megalou. I find artillery units to be extremely useful on the attack, but I never use them defensively. In particular they are useful when hunting for leaders, beacuse in Megalou's words, you "weep at the sight of seeing your attack units suffer defeat", even if only once in a while. Since elite promotions are hard to come by, you want to keep those elite units alive for as long as possible.

I would build my early stacks with maybe 4-8 offensive units, 2-4 artillery and perhaps 1 defensive unit, depending on terrain. Of course it all depends, if my main attack force is horsemen I wouldn't build a single catapult, neither would I bring cannons around with my cavalry. But if I'm fighting with swordsmen, or as in this game archers, units that are slow and most importantly cannot retreat if they do badly, then two catapults are far more worth to me than two extra attackers.

Another very useful trick with catapults is when you go up against a town of size 7-8. Hit some of the populace to bring it down to 6, and you cripple the defense severly. Since pop hits are not very common (I wish someone would make a thorough investigation of the chances) this is not to be counted on though, but the times that it works it really makes my day.

 

[IronKnight]

@ Megalou & Niklas - Thanks for the replies, and yes I do "weep" when my attackers die. They're like brothers to me

I use the artillery to knock down the hit points of the defenders. I find it useful, but I do admit that it slows things down. I typically don't use them in conjunction with mounted units, but found them useful with archers versus spearmen. I may try some other strategies.

What I should have asked is how do you go about your military campaign. Obviously you use multiple stacks. Do you target multiple CIVs at a time, one stack for each? I'm trying to find quicker ways to wipe them out. How do you deal with injuries? I typically let units heal before moving on, but of course this slows me down. I normally plod through my starting landmass CIV by CIV, but should I start multiple wars at a time?

Thanks in advance for the input. I want to try and improve my warmongering skills

 

[Megalou]

I don't use archers very much although I should try it more in fast conquest attempts. But when people talk about them I sometimes suspect that they focus on using archers because they don't have the patience to wait for better units that give a decisive advantage. The AI stinks when it comes to building strong attack units. That is the main advantage of the human. We generally don't want to fight the extra AI units until they are obsolete. The AI won't use mass upgrade, for example, because it doesn't know about saving up the money.

Niklas, we all have our own style, but the time it takes to build those several extra artillery units must be weighed against their value. Naturally I don't deny their merit altogether. But if you have several civs to conquer, it's often a race against time before the last of them get riflemen or infantry. Typically, our first attack secures horses, if we don't have any. And once we have horses, why build movement 1 units? The catapults hang around costing upkeep or are disbanded for 2 shields.

I agree that the elite units should not be exposed. Often (if there are no defenders around) it is possible to fortify a veteran unit of the same kind as the elite unit, and just skip the turn (spacebar) for the elite. Then the fortified vet will be stronger during the interturn and take the punches.

IronKnight, Your last query is too wide to be answered conclusively. In COTM 15 India it was definitely possible to wage war with 3-4 civs at the same time. In another game it can be a disaster if you get drawn into a second war at a certain time.

I've mentioned capturing resources. Alliances are not bad either, prferably with civs that can attack your enemy from the opposite direction. Don't be afraid to break them if the enemy sips through and threatens your towns; if you manage to cripple a strong AI on emperor or deity it's usually worth it (but not good of course.)

You should check when the AI will talk peace. Once they will talk peace, they will not go back to refusing until the next war . Once they will talk peace, you can usually make a final thrust with all your attacking units, not worrying about defense or at least taking more chances. For example, if you have deprived the AI of horses, you can empty some towns for a while because you know that it will take the AI a long time to get to them. Ideally, you sign for peace when the AI units stand right outside your empty towns. Meanwhile, you have devoured most of their towns.

Another thing rarely discussed is how you place your units at the end of your turn. Ideally, they should be in reange of attacking but not being attacked. Put two of your cheapest units in the last captured town and don't worry if one of them gets killed - it's only a game! Do you mourn for your sacrificed pawns when you play chess too!? - but put your most powerful units in the best possible position.